★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (5)
56%
★★★ - Good game (3)
33%
If you have time (1)
11%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
9 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Life vs soO?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): If you have time
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
7%
★★★ - Good game (1)
4%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
28 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Bang vs herO?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
22%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (1)
11%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (1)
11%
9 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Life vs ByuN?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
6%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (1)
6%
17 total votes
Your vote: Recommend herO vs soO?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
17%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (1)
8%
12 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Bang vs ByuN?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (6)
38%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (2)
13%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (1)
6%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
16 total votes
Your vote: Recommend herO vs Life?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (9)
69%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (4)
31%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★ - Good game (0)
0%
13 total votes
Your vote: Recommend soO vs ByuN?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
4%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
25 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Bang vs Life?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (6)
22%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (5)
19%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
27 total votes
Your vote: Recommend herO vs ByuN?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
13 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Bang vs soO?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
(Vote): Life and soO (Vote): Life and Bang (Vote): Life and herO (Vote): Life and ByuN (Vote): soO and Bang (Vote): soO and herO (Vote): soO and ByuN (Vote): Bang and herO (Vote): Bang and ByuN (Vote): herO and ByuN
Poll: Who do you want to make it out of this group?
Life and ByuN (18)
39%
Life and herO (6)
13%
soO and herO (6)
13%
herO and ByuN (5)
11%
Life and soO (4)
9%
Life and Bang (3)
7%
soO and ByuN (2)
4%
Bang and ByuN (2)
4%
soO and Bang (0)
0%
Bang and herO (0)
0%
46 total votes
Your vote: Who do you want to make it out of this group?
(Vote): Life and soO (Vote): Life and Bang (Vote): Life and herO (Vote): Life and ByuN (Vote): soO and Bang (Vote): soO and herO (Vote): soO and ByuN (Vote): Bang and herO (Vote): Bang and ByuN (Vote): herO and ByuN
On August 06 2013 15:52 Prplppleatr wrote: How is it that Byun is in up&downs? he went out first round
Last season they started doing a wild card tournament to give 2 spots in the up and down matches. ByuN and Hurricane won the spots this season all Code B players including ones just eliminated from the Ro48 of Code A are allowed to participate (Bracket 1, Bracket 2)
Last season 3 spots were given due to a region switch (dont remember exactly which player caused it. HyuN I think) and they were sC, Bang, and Savage
On August 06 2013 15:52 Prplppleatr wrote: How is it that Byun is in up&downs? he went out first round
Last season they started doing a wild card tournament to give 2 spots in the up and down matches. ByuN and Hurricane won the spots this season all Code B players including ones just eliminated from the Ro48 of Code A are allowed to participate (Bracket 1, Bracket 2)
Last season 3 spots were given due to a region switch (dont remember exactly which player caused it. HyuN I think) and they were sC, Bang, and Savage
On August 06 2013 15:52 Prplppleatr wrote: How is it that Byun is in up&downs? he went out first round
Last season they started doing a wild card tournament to give 2 spots in the up and down matches. ByuN and Hurricane won the spots this season all Code B players including ones just eliminated from the Ro48 of Code A are allowed to participate (Bracket 1, Bracket 2)
Last season 3 spots were given due to a region switch (dont remember exactly which player caused it. HyuN I think) and they were sC, Bang, and Savage
hmm, didnt know...thx
is this on LP andi just missed it?
I'm not sure if it's on LP. It was in the thread TL made for the total Ro24 Code A results. Last season Gisado streamed the Ro8+ of the wild card tournament but I didn't see anything about it being streamed this season.
All the barcodes and korean names are translated with the results posted on this page of Aligulac if that makes it easier for you to follow along. I accidentally made the Ro64 slot for adding games after the other rounds so they are just listed below the rest of the games http://www.aligulac.com/results/?d=2013-07-31
On August 07 2013 13:13 Brutaxilos wrote: Wait, why did he kill his own creep tumors? I'm confused.
I am wondering the same thing...
The fact that he's defending means that his units are closer to home, and he doesn't need the creep spreading away from his base - it actually works against him, as Soo's units arrive faster.
On August 07 2013 13:18 lichter wrote: Why is Life so bad at ZvZ
He made a unit that isn't roaches or hydras.
I'm not entirely serious, stuff like muta/swarm host wins occasionally. It's just that most games it seems like teching in ZvZ is what expanding in PvP used to be, a death wish.
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (5)
45%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (4)
36%
★★★ - Good game (2)
18%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
11 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Life vs soO?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
everytime I watch Life he manages to give up a ZvZ he probably should have won. I remember some ZvZ he lost on Akalon Waste where he attacks in a terrorbad position, forgot what/who it was though.
On August 07 2013 13:22 SniXSniPe wrote: how in the fuck
everytime I watch Life he manages to give up a ZvZ he probably should have won. I remember some ZvZ he lost on Akalon Waste where he attacks in a terrorbad position, forgot what/who it was though.
Probably against hyvaa in Round 3 of Challenger League.
On August 07 2013 13:22 SniXSniPe wrote: how in the fuck
everytime I watch Life he manages to give up a ZvZ he probably should have won. I remember some ZvZ he lost on Akalon Waste where he attacks in a terrorbad position, forgot what/who it was though.
Was Life really ahead at any point? He barely had any workers at his natural and his third after soO's first attack... His economy was really weak :-/ But yeah... Roach-play never seemed very strong for Life. I hope he manages to beat the other players and He can definitely do it :-P
The people saying that TvP got a lot harder once Photon overcharge was introduced have a point. I never really paid much attention to it until now, but those people were right.
On August 07 2013 13:35 Havik_ wrote: The people saying that TvP got a lot harder once Photon overcharge was introduced have a point. I never really paid much attention to it until now, but those people were right.
On August 07 2013 13:35 Havik_ wrote: The people saying that TvP got a lot harder once Photon overcharge was introduced have a point. I never really paid much attention to it until now, but those people were right.
Well of course, Protoss now can afford to be out of position as long as they have the necessary energy on the MSC. Before the lack of mobility was one of the defining weaknesses of the race.
On August 07 2013 13:35 Havik_ wrote: The people saying that TvP got a lot harder once Photon overcharge was introduced have a point. I never really paid much attention to it until now, but those people were right.
Well of course, Protoss now can afford to be out of position as long as they have the necessary energy on the MSC. Before the lack of mobility was one of the defining weaknesses of the race.
Well when Terrans got medivac boost it just became too hard to defend without the cannon, I do agree it could be toned down a little early game or require slightly more energy.
On August 07 2013 13:42 graNite wrote: lategame tvp is just soo hard, you can only make wrong decisions... 3/3 zealots are so hard to deal with and storms can kill so much
I would say don't let it get that far, but I know from experience that the Mothership Core and force fields make that difficult. I've won games I absolutely should not have won because of it.
Is it just me or is herO sort of following Bomber's Law this game? Everytime he shows how good he can be, he throws it away through a bad engagement, only to micro his way back into the game.
On August 07 2013 13:42 graNite wrote: lategame tvp is just soo hard, you can only make wrong decisions... 3/3 zealots are so hard to deal with and storms can kill so much
I would say don't let it get that far, but I know from experience that the Mothership Core and force fields make that difficult. I've won games I absolutely should not have won because of it.
so you kill protoss before lategame? how stupid is that... i want to play lategame in every mathup, but i want it to be fair. and i dont think it is, these zealots can even take down bunkers so easy
On August 07 2013 13:42 graNite wrote: lategame tvp is just soo hard, you can only make wrong decisions... 3/3 zealots are so hard to deal with and storms can kill so much
I would say don't let it get that far, but I know from experience that the Mothership Core and force fields make that difficult. I've won games I absolutely should not have won because of it.
On August 07 2013 13:42 graNite wrote: lategame tvp is just soo hard, you can only make wrong decisions... 3/3 zealots are so hard to deal with and storms can kill so much
I would say don't let it get that far, but I know from experience that the Mothership Core and force fields make that difficult. I've won games I absolutely should not have won because of it.
so you kill protoss before lategame? how stupid is that... i want to play lategame in every mathup, but i want it to be fair. and i dont think it is, these zealots can even take down bunkers so easy
So leverage your mid-game edge to get into a great position for the late game. You can't expect blizz to balance both matchups and each stage within them.
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
7%
★★★ - Good game (1)
4%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
28 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Bang vs herO?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
Wth was that engagement? Absolutely no micro and cross your fingers and a-move with ghost viking? Thank God herO won that game, clearly the better player with superior multitasking and map control.
On August 07 2013 13:42 graNite wrote: lategame tvp is just soo hard, you can only make wrong decisions... 3/3 zealots are so hard to deal with and storms can kill so much
I would say don't let it get that far, but I know from experience that the Mothership Core and force fields make that difficult. I've won games I absolutely should not have won because of it.
so you kill protoss before lategame? how stupid is that... i want to play lategame in every mathup, but i want it to be fair. and i dont think it is, these zealots can even take down bunkers so easy
So leverage your mid-game edge to get into a great position for the late game. You can't expect blizz to balance both matchups and each stage within them.
But that's what they did for Protoss in the early game and mid-game with MSC.
On August 07 2013 13:42 graNite wrote: lategame tvp is just soo hard, you can only make wrong decisions... 3/3 zealots are so hard to deal with and storms can kill so much
I would say don't let it get that far, but I know from experience that the Mothership Core and force fields make that difficult. I've won games I absolutely should not have won because of it.
2 base 2 fact hellion all-ins all day every day.
Yes. If that's what it takes. Terran has the advantage in the early-midgame. Use it!
On August 07 2013 13:42 graNite wrote: lategame tvp is just soo hard, you can only make wrong decisions... 3/3 zealots are so hard to deal with and storms can kill so much
I would say don't let it get that far, but I know from experience that the Mothership Core and force fields make that difficult. I've won games I absolutely should not have won because of it.
so you kill protoss before lategame? how stupid is that... i want to play lategame in every mathup, but i want it to be fair. and i dont think it is, these zealots can even take down bunkers so easy
Blizzard has said the game was designed with asymmetrical balance in mind where T is strong early and Protoss is strong late. That's simply how the game was designed and its in the best interest of these players to take advantage of that.
On August 07 2013 13:35 Havik_ wrote: The people saying that TvP got a lot harder once Photon overcharge was introduced have a point. I never really paid much attention to it until now, but those people were right.
Well of course, Protoss now can afford to be out of position as long as they have the necessary energy on the MSC. Before the lack of mobility was one of the defining weaknesses of the race.
Well when Terrans got medivac boost it just became too hard to defend without the cannon, I do agree it could be toned down a little early game or require slightly more energy.
I don't many of the design decisions in HotS exactly for that reason. The dependency on a single unit for so many necessary functions is a gimmick in a RTS for the obvious reason: it has to be useful enough to justify its existence but not strong enough to completely break the game. Blizzard hasn't really addressed that problem with the MS and now the MSC.
On August 07 2013 13:49 TT1 wrote: what an insane match, beautiful play by hero
do you think hero was too impatient in his first two big engagements? or did he need to free up the supply for tempests and zealot runbys
yes his first engagement was particularly bad, big mistake on his part. if bang attacked right after that and defended the zeal runby with his rallied units he would have won.. instead he was too indecisive and kept bringing his army back until hero closed the supply gap somewhat (like -30 sup.) + had ht tech w/ cannons
but his legame runbys were fine, thats how u have to play pvt. protoss has warpgate anyways so its not really important for us to bank that much money, its much better to weaken the t while having enough bank for say 1 full warpin cycle instead of 2 during the big fight(seeing as most of the time the fights already been decided by the time ur 2nd warpin kicks in). its also very hard to deal with terran once they go into the lategame untouched w/ mass pf's and orbitals. this type of play spreads them apart and takes advantage of p's advantage in the midd/lategame and t's weakness (mobility), making it hard for t to set themselves up for the lategame. it also bought him enough time to tech to tempests etc.
Life is like a Zerg MMA. Starts off in the GSTL, where people notice his skill. He defeats Mvp to win his first GSL title. He wins Blizzard Cup that same year. He goes abroad, and wins MLG. Then he goes and wins Iron Squid. But by the next summer, he's in a slump and it feels like the dominance has been past
On August 07 2013 14:07 Bagration wrote: Life is like a Zerg MMA. Starts off in the GSTL, where people notice his skill. He defeats Mvp to win his first GSL title. He wins Blizzard Cup that same year. He goes abroad, and wins MLG. Then he goes and wins Iron Squid. But by the next summer, he's in a slump and it feels like the dominance has been past
even #1 MMA fan over here is comparing Life to MMA, LIFE WHAT HAVE YOU DONE.
On August 07 2013 14:07 Bagration wrote: Life is like a Zerg MMA. Starts off in the GSTL, where people notice his skill. He defeats Mvp to win his first GSL title. He wins Blizzard Cup that same year. He goes abroad, and wins MLG. Then he goes and wins Iron Squid. But by the next summer, he's in a slump and it feels like the dominance has been past
Yeah MMA slowly went from on top of the world, to just top-tier, to great, to good, and finally to "whatever happened to MMA?"
sad :/
Though, at least Life really innovated when he lit the world on fire. So there's also that to remember about him.
What the fuck my sister comes into my room to so me some stupid video and I miss ByuN winning. Fuck I never see Prime terrans win against popular players. Maybe I just shouldn't watch them. Good news for Maru since I'm missing OSL finals
I find it amazing that life can somehow micro his lings and drones vs reapers + a bunker in his main and take almost no damage, then when he has a spine crawler and queens he loses 7 drones to four reapers
On August 07 2013 14:09 Shellshock1122 wrote: What the fuck my sister comes into my room to so me some stupid video and I miss ByuN winning. Fuck I never see Prime terrans win against popular players. Maybe I just shouldn't watch them. Good news for Maru since I'm missing OSL finals
On August 07 2013 14:07 Bagration wrote: Life is like a Zerg MMA. Starts off in the GSTL, where people notice his skill. He defeats Mvp to win his first GSL title. He wins Blizzard Cup that same year. He goes abroad, and wins MLG. Then he goes and wins Iron Squid. But by the next summer, he's in a slump and it feels like the dominance has been past
even #1 MMA fan over here is comparing Life to MMA, LIFE WHAT HAVE YOU DONE.
The similarities are uncanny. MMA was good in the mirror TvT, and in TvZ, and Life was initially good in his mirror ZvZ and ZvT. Both were relatively weak vP.
On August 07 2013 14:09 Shellshock1122 wrote: What the fuck my sister comes into my room to so me some stupid video and I miss ByuN winning. Fuck I never see Prime terrans win against popular players. Maybe I just shouldn't watch them. Good news for Maru since I'm missing OSL finals
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
22%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (1)
11%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (1)
11%
9 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Life vs ByuN?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
On August 07 2013 14:07 Bagration wrote: Life is like a Zerg MMA. Starts off in the GSTL, where people notice his skill. He defeats Mvp to win his first GSL title. He wins Blizzard Cup that same year. He goes abroad, and wins MLG. Then he goes and wins Iron Squid. But by the next summer, he's in a slump and it feels like the dominance has been past
even #1 MMA fan over here is comparing Life to MMA, LIFE WHAT HAVE YOU DONE.
The similarities are uncanny. MMA was good in the mirror TvT, and in TvZ, and Life was initially good in his mirror ZvZ and ZvT. Both were relatively weak vP.
Both had a rival that would later go on to dominate. Drg for mma, and flash for life, though flash hasn't won anything yet :p
On August 07 2013 14:07 Bagration wrote: Life is like a Zerg MMA. Starts off in the GSTL, where people notice his skill. He defeats Mvp to win his first GSL title. He wins Blizzard Cup that same year. He goes abroad, and wins MLG. Then he goes and wins Iron Squid. But by the next summer, he's in a slump and it feels like the dominance has been past
Yeah MMA slowly went from on top of the world, to just top-tier, to great, to good, and finally to "whatever happened to MMA?"
sad :/
Though, at least Life really innovated when he lit the world on fire. So there's also that to remember about him.
On August 07 2013 14:07 Bagration wrote: Life is like a Zerg MMA. Starts off in the GSTL, where people notice his skill. He defeats Mvp to win his first GSL title. He wins Blizzard Cup that same year. He goes abroad, and wins MLG. Then he goes and wins Iron Squid. But by the next summer, he's in a slump and it feels like the dominance has been past
Yeah MMA slowly went from on top of the world, to just top-tier, to great, to good, and finally to "whatever happened to MMA?"
sad :/
Though, at least Life really innovated when he lit the world on fire. So there's also that to remember about him.
I'll never forgive him for stopping G5L from happening, but I will admit it was very impressive to watch him play Zerg at a time when everyone else was playing BroodFungalCraft 1.4.3.
On August 07 2013 14:07 Bagration wrote: Life is like a Zerg MMA. Starts off in the GSTL, where people notice his skill. He defeats Mvp to win his first GSL title. He wins Blizzard Cup that same year. He goes abroad, and wins MLG. Then he goes and wins Iron Squid. But by the next summer, he's in a slump and it feels like the dominance has been past
even #1 MMA fan over here is comparing Life to MMA, LIFE WHAT HAVE YOU DONE.
The similarities are uncanny. MMA was good in the mirror TvT, and in TvZ, and Life was initially good in his mirror ZvZ and ZvT. Both were relatively weak vP.
Life was never "relatively weak" against Protoss after his rise and during HotS. He was only ass at it during his initial games.
On August 07 2013 14:07 Bagration wrote: Life is like a Zerg MMA. Starts off in the GSTL, where people notice his skill. He defeats Mvp to win his first GSL title. He wins Blizzard Cup that same year. He goes abroad, and wins MLG. Then he goes and wins Iron Squid. But by the next summer, he's in a slump and it feels like the dominance has been past
even #1 MMA fan over here is comparing Life to MMA, LIFE WHAT HAVE YOU DONE.
The similarities are uncanny. MMA was good in the mirror TvT, and in TvZ, and Life was initially good in his mirror ZvZ and ZvT. Both were relatively weak vP.
Life was never "relatively weak" against Protoss after his rise and during HotS. He was only ass at it during his initial games.
On August 07 2013 14:12 Popkiller wrote: Hahahaa can't believe people are comparing Life to MMA.
Life is basically a Zerg MMA, but 1 year later. :p
Well, if Life doesn't win a single thing for the next year, then I guess we can call him a Zerg MMA... but even then, if he's still competing in Code S, he'll be in better shape than MMA is now.
Yeah, it's a nice team league but constantly conflicting with Code A is suicide
But they have no time slot to really fit in with WCS EU - WCS AM - Code A/U&D going back to back to back this week
Doesn't help that the first broadcast had games that were 5 weeks old or something. So I really never have any clue how recent the games are and makes me skip it most of the time.
On August 07 2013 14:12 Popkiller wrote: Hahahaa can't believe people are comparing Life to MMA.
haha? They both rose quickly, beat Mvp to win their first GSL, won an MLG, won a Blizzard Cup, and then stopped winning as much. It's the closest thing to a mirror image we have in SC2.
On August 07 2013 14:07 Bagration wrote: Life is like a Zerg MMA. Starts off in the GSTL, where people notice his skill. He defeats Mvp to win his first GSL title. He wins Blizzard Cup that same year. He goes abroad, and wins MLG. Then he goes and wins Iron Squid. But by the next summer, he's in a slump and it feels like the dominance has been past
Yeah, it's a nice team league but constantly conflicting with Code A is suicide
But they have no time slot to really fit in with WCS EU - WCS AM - Code A/U&D going back to back to back this week
Definitely, I thought that late 2012 convinced everyone that too many tournaments wasn't a great idea but apparently they didn't get the memo.
The thing is theoretically sc2l fills a gap in the scene that people would care about, a NA team league for western teams. turns out no one cares about that though.
Yeah, it's a nice team league but constantly conflicting with Code A is suicide
But they have no time slot to really fit in with WCS EU - WCS AM - Code A/U&D going back to back to back this week
Definitely, I thought that late 2012 convinced everyone that too many tournaments wasn't a great idea but apparently they didn't get the memo.
The thing is theoretically sc2l fills a gap in the scene that people would care about, a NA team league for western teams. turns out no one cares about that though.
There are some of those anyways, that aren't casted off of multiple week old replays. Gogo herO!
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
6%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (1)
6%
17 total votes
Your vote: Recommend herO vs soO?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
Quite possibly the first time in recent memory I've seen a toss actually win a basetrade vs a muta zerg. Of course, herO was ahead and the basetrade was a stupid thing that shouldn't have happened.
On August 07 2013 14:12 Popkiller wrote: Hahahaa can't believe people are comparing Life to MMA.
Life is basically a Zerg MMA, but 1 year later. :p
Well, if Life doesn't win a single thing for the next year, then I guess we can call him a Zerg MMA... but even then, if he's still competing in Code S, he'll be in better shape than MMA is now.
MMA did make Code S for GSL Season 4 in 2012, which was when Life won his first GSL. This was late summer / early fall 2012
On August 07 2013 14:30 VayneAuthority wrote: The fake warp prism aggression was dam good, gotta try and incorporate that into my play somehow
I think it might have been intended to be light aggression, dropping and ffing the ramp if he could, but soo stopped it cold so he just microed it around, keeping soo on edge. It was really cute, I love that stuff.
On August 07 2013 14:12 Popkiller wrote: Hahahaa can't believe people are comparing Life to MMA.
Life is basically a Zerg MMA, but 1 year later. :p
Well, if Life doesn't win a single thing for the next year, then I guess we can call him a Zerg MMA... but even then, if he's still competing in Code S, he'll be in better shape than MMA is now.
MMA did make Code S for GSL Season 4 in 2012, which was when Life won his first GSL. This was late summer / early fall 2012
and we got a really good set of 2 series' of MMA Mvp from that season
On August 07 2013 14:32 SAFenix wrote: Wow who would've known that one drone that was killed was so vital. If soO had sent it across the map or something, he might've won that
Yeah if he has an extractor on the other side of the map he wins.
On August 07 2013 14:32 SAFenix wrote: Wow who would've known that one drone that was killed was so vital. If soO had sent it across the map or something, he might've won that
Yeah if he has an extractor on the other side of the map he wins.
I don't think so, herO checkes the entire map before he left his Nexus.
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
17%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (1)
8%
12 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Bang vs ByuN?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
On August 07 2013 14:39 graNite wrote: I wish autoturrets had more health.
i feel like if durable materials increased health on turrets instead of time, it would make the raven more versatile.
nonono, without an upgrade. they are already hard to get (high raven cost, starport with techlab) and should have a higher health or higher range AND be easier to put down. (mor elike infested terrans and less than buildings)
Lol herO had this game won and sloppily lost a bunch of phoenixes to hydras for no reason. Snowballed into that ling hydra attack doing a lot more than it should have, and also let Life make this muta switch work.
If herO didn't decide to donate all of his phoenixes to life after the initial harass, he would've had easily 9 phoenixes to deal with the muta switch. He had this game, but lost it with incredibly sloppy play.
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (6)
38%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (2)
13%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (1)
6%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
16 total votes
Your vote: Recommend herO vs Life?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
On August 07 2013 14:51 bo1b wrote: I hope that no zergs get through these qualifiers.
In this group or just overall?
I mean literally every zerg thats trying to qualify fails, not just in korea. The golden age of gsl for me involved very few zergs, because I enjoy rooting for the underdog when the underdog can only ever win through out skilling the opponent. The other reason, is that when jaedong wins wcs and there's like 2 zergs in total the victory will be that much sweeter. Those reasons aren't unrelated lol
Wow it looked so horrible for Life when the phoenixes killed so many drones, but that switch to mutas was too brutal for herO to handle. Good job Life, comeback now.
I'm so irritated at Life. I want to see him do well now. The moment I stopped being mad at him for denying Mvp's 5th GSL, he stopped being good. Please be good again. Please.
On August 07 2013 15:00 Foxxan wrote: Life plays so sloppy and gets lucky.....
He didn't get lucky, the muta switch hit at a perfect time, when herO literally had almost no anti air. If anything, you criticize the play from hero, Life played a really good game there.
On August 07 2013 14:51 bo1b wrote: I hope that no zergs get through these qualifiers.
In this group or just overall?
I mean literally every zerg thats trying to qualify fails, not just in korea. The golden age of gsl for me involved very few zergs, because I enjoy rooting for the underdog when the underdog can only ever win through out skilling the opponent. The other reason, is that when jaedong wins wcs and there's like 2 zergs in total the victory will be that much sweeter. Those reasons aren't unrelated lol
On August 07 2013 14:57 GTPGlitch wrote: how did life get that much shit off 3base o.o
Take minimal damage in the early game, take 3 bases, and hit injects into opponent gg.
Sarcasm?
Not really. I mean he killed 23 drones. But he also had to use 1200 gas to do it. Since he didn't hit with a follow up timing, Life was eventually able to recover and just out microe'd Hero into death (losing collossi to lings, losing sentries to lings, taking lings back from ttacking zealots, bringing in hydras at the right time, etc.)
On August 07 2013 14:51 bo1b wrote: I hope that no zergs get through these qualifiers.
In this group or just overall?
I mean literally every zerg thats trying to qualify fails, not just in korea. The golden age of gsl for me involved very few zergs, because I enjoy rooting for the underdog when the underdog can only ever win through out skilling the opponent. The other reason, is that when jaedong wins wcs and there's like 2 zergs in total the victory will be that much sweeter. Those reasons aren't unrelated lol
Wake me up when Jaedong gets good at ZvP.
Day9 made a daily about Jaedong's ZvP so he must be good at it right?
On August 07 2013 15:00 Foxxan wrote: Life plays so sloppy and gets lucky.....
He didn't get lucky, the muta switch hit at a perfect time, when herO literally had almost no anti air. If anything, you criticize the play from hero, Life played a really good game there.
Not really. Both players played really poorly. That game was basically two men trying to fight each other, only they're so drunk that they just keep falling into each other. In the end herO tripped over his foot and got a concussion when his head hit the ground. Life fell on top of him and then passed out.
On August 07 2013 14:51 bo1b wrote: I hope that no zergs get through these qualifiers.
In this group or just overall?
I mean literally every zerg thats trying to qualify fails, not just in korea. The golden age of gsl for me involved very few zergs, because I enjoy rooting for the underdog when the underdog can only ever win through out skilling the opponent. The other reason, is that when jaedong wins wcs and there's like 2 zergs in total the victory will be that much sweeter. Those reasons aren't unrelated lol
Wake me up when Jaedong gets good at ZvP.
He looked decent against Oz but we will see if he can keep that up
On August 07 2013 14:51 bo1b wrote: I hope that no zergs get through these qualifiers.
In this group or just overall?
I mean literally every zerg thats trying to qualify fails, not just in korea. The golden age of gsl for me involved very few zergs, because I enjoy rooting for the underdog when the underdog can only ever win through out skilling the opponent. The other reason, is that when jaedong wins wcs and there's like 2 zergs in total the victory will be that much sweeter. Those reasons aren't unrelated lol
Wake me up when Jaedong gets good at ZvP.
Day9 made a daily about Jaedong's ZvP so he must be good at it right?
RIGHT?
Jaedong's macro zvp isnt that bad anymore but he's more or less incapable of holding any form of a 2 base all in
On August 07 2013 14:51 bo1b wrote: I hope that no zergs get through these qualifiers.
In this group or just overall?
I mean literally every zerg thats trying to qualify fails, not just in korea. The golden age of gsl for me involved very few zergs, because I enjoy rooting for the underdog when the underdog can only ever win through out skilling the opponent. The other reason, is that when jaedong wins wcs and there's like 2 zergs in total the victory will be that much sweeter. Those reasons aren't unrelated lol
On August 07 2013 14:51 bo1b wrote: I hope that no zergs get through these qualifiers.
In this group or just overall?
I mean literally every zerg thats trying to qualify fails, not just in korea. The golden age of gsl for me involved very few zergs, because I enjoy rooting for the underdog when the underdog can only ever win through out skilling the opponent. The other reason, is that when jaedong wins wcs and there's like 2 zergs in total the victory will be that much sweeter. Those reasons aren't unrelated lol
Wake me up when Jaedong gets good at ZvP.
Day9 made a daily about Jaedong's ZvP so he must be good at it right?
On August 07 2013 14:57 GTPGlitch wrote: how did life get that much shit off 3base o.o
Take minimal damage in the early game, take 3 bases, and hit injects into opponent gg.
Sarcasm?
Not really. I mean he killed 23 drones. But he also had to use 1200 gas to do it. Since he didn't hit with a follow up timing, Life was eventually able to recover and just out microe'd Hero into death (losing collossi to lings, losing sentries to lings, taking lings back from ttacking zealots, bringing in hydras at the right time, etc.)
Not to mention his first zealot attack failed which delayed his tech. Then he lost all his phoenixes just parking them over hydras
On August 07 2013 15:00 Foxxan wrote: Life plays so sloppy and gets lucky.....
He didn't get lucky, the muta switch hit at a perfect time, when herO literally had almost no anti air. If anything, you criticize the play from hero, Life played a really good game there.
Not really. Both players played really poorly. That game was basically two men trying to fight each other, only they're so drunk that they just keep falling into each other. In the end herO tripped over his foot and got a concussion when his head hit the ground. Life fell on top of him and then passed out.
As Tasteless would say, it's like watching two guys taking turns falling down stairs.
On August 07 2013 14:51 bo1b wrote: I hope that no zergs get through these qualifiers.
In this group or just overall?
I mean literally every zerg thats trying to qualify fails, not just in korea. The golden age of gsl for me involved very few zergs, because I enjoy rooting for the underdog when the underdog can only ever win through out skilling the opponent. The other reason, is that when jaedong wins wcs and there's like 2 zergs in total the victory will be that much sweeter. Those reasons aren't unrelated lol
Wake me up when Jaedong gets good at ZvP.
Day9 made a daily about Jaedong's ZvP so he must be good at it right?
So, now gotta hope that Byun wins his 2 games and Life wins against Bang. Then he gets a chance in the tie-breakers and Byun would advance (=optimal result).
On August 07 2013 14:51 bo1b wrote: I hope that no zergs get through these qualifiers.
In this group or just overall?
I mean literally every zerg thats trying to qualify fails, not just in korea. The golden age of gsl for me involved very few zergs, because I enjoy rooting for the underdog when the underdog can only ever win through out skilling the opponent. The other reason, is that when jaedong wins wcs and there's like 2 zergs in total the victory will be that much sweeter. Those reasons aren't unrelated lol
the phoenix killing 23 drones or 20 or something since zealots killed 6 drones earlier was worth it alot since life had a late 3rd and semi low drone count before the 3rd
And then hero loses first a few sentries and zealots outsite his second expansion against lings (shouldnt have happen) And awhile after he loses more sentires just like that (shouldnt had happen)
Also, he loses his phoenix for what reason really?
Life is playing sloppy and "should" have lost this tbh
edit: mistype, he loses zealots and sentires outside his first expansion and later he loses more sentires at his second expansion
On August 07 2013 15:00 Foxxan wrote: Life plays so sloppy and gets lucky.....
He didn't get lucky, the muta switch hit at a perfect time, when herO literally had almost no anti air. If anything, you criticize the play from hero, Life played a really good game there.
Not really. Both players played really poorly. That game was basically two men trying to fight each other, only they're so drunk that they just keep falling into each other. In the end herO tripped over his foot and got a concussion when his head hit the ground. Life fell on top of him and then passed out.
That's true, I was mostly just responding the to life bashing/muta bashing from that dude.
On August 07 2013 15:07 Foxxan wrote: the phoenix killing 23 drones or 20 or something since zealots killed 6 drones earlier was worth it alot since life had a late 3rd and semi low drone count before the 3rd
And then hero loses first a few sentries and zealots outsite his second expansion against lings (shouldnt have happen) And awhile after he loses more sentires just like that (shouldnt had happen)
Also, he loses his phoenix for what reason really?
Life is playing sloppy and "should" have lost this tbh
On August 07 2013 15:05 Thrillz wrote: Starting last game, every game's outcome from now on determines whether Life makes it or now I believe.
I think if soO beats Byun, Life's out. Byun, soO and herO would be on 2:1 in this case, while all 3 having to play against each other. So maiy the next match is really important for life xD
On August 07 2013 15:07 Foxxan wrote: the phoenix killing 23 drones or 20 or something since zealots killed 6 drones earlier was worth it alot since life had a late 3rd and semi low drone count before the 3rd
And then hero loses first a few sentries and zealots outsite his second expansion against lings (shouldnt have happen) And awhile after he loses more sentires just like that (shouldnt had happen)
Also, he loses his phoenix for what reason really?
Life is playing sloppy and "should" have lost this tbh
Composure often beats skill.
Composure is a part of "skill". Which is what Innovation lacks.
On August 07 2013 15:07 Foxxan wrote: the phoenix killing 23 drones or 20 or something since zealots killed 6 drones earlier was worth it alot since life had a late 3rd and semi low drone count before the 3rd
And then hero loses first a few sentries and zealots outsite his second expansion against lings (shouldnt have happen) And awhile after he loses more sentires just like that (shouldnt had happen)
Also, he loses his phoenix for what reason really?
Life is playing sloppy and "should" have lost this tbh
Composure often beats skill.
Composure is a part of "skill". Which is what Innovation lacks.
You'd think a robot would have more composure and less nerves
On August 07 2013 15:07 Foxxan wrote: the phoenix killing 23 drones or 20 or something since zealots killed 6 drones earlier was worth it alot since life had a late 3rd and semi low drone count before the 3rd
And then hero loses first a few sentries and zealots outsite his second expansion against lings (shouldnt have happen) And awhile after he loses more sentires just like that (shouldnt had happen)
Also, he loses his phoenix for what reason really?
Life is playing sloppy and "should" have lost this tbh
Composure often beats skill.
Composure is a part of "skill". Which is what Innovation lacks.
Yes because a WCS Season 1 Champion + WCS KR Finalist and Semifinalist is "skill-less"
On August 07 2013 15:07 Foxxan wrote: the phoenix killing 23 drones or 20 or something since zealots killed 6 drones earlier was worth it alot since life had a late 3rd and semi low drone count before the 3rd
And then hero loses first a few sentries and zealots outsite his second expansion against lings (shouldnt have happen) And awhile after he loses more sentires just like that (shouldnt had happen)
Also, he loses his phoenix for what reason really?
Life is playing sloppy and "should" have lost this tbh
Composure often beats skill.
Composure is a part of "skill". Which is what Innovation lacks.
You'd think a robot would have more composure and less nerves
On August 07 2013 15:07 Foxxan wrote: the phoenix killing 23 drones or 20 or something since zealots killed 6 drones earlier was worth it alot since life had a late 3rd and semi low drone count before the 3rd
And then hero loses first a few sentries and zealots outsite his second expansion against lings (shouldnt have happen) And awhile after he loses more sentires just like that (shouldnt had happen)
Also, he loses his phoenix for what reason really?
Life is playing sloppy and "should" have lost this tbh
Composure often beats skill.
Composure is a part of "skill". Which is what Innovation lacks.
On August 07 2013 15:05 Thrillz wrote: Starting last game, every game's outcome from now on determines whether Life makes it or now I believe.
I think if soO beats Byun, Life's out. Byun, soO and herO would be on 2:1 in this case, while all 3 having to play against each other. So maiy the next match is really important for life xD
Life isn't out even if soO wins this. Still a chance for a 3-way tie between Life, herO and soO if Life wins vs Bang, Byun wins vs herO and Bang wins vs soO.
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (9)
69%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (4)
31%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★ - Good game (0)
0%
13 total votes
Your vote: Recommend soO vs ByuN?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
On August 07 2013 15:17 Dodgin wrote: Life's first season since his royal road not playing in Code S
the MMA is beginning
these comparisons don't work. MMA is "old" and his fall coincided with a disastrous team house situation
(MMA come back I love you)
WCS EU could very well be 7 toss and MMA with MMA re-enacting Mvp's famous 2012 run in EU.
MMA will beat Naniwa, making the fanboys eternally angry at him, Grubby, making the fanboys eternally angry at him, then the bonjwa Hasu Orbs in the finals.
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
4%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
25 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Bang vs Life?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
On August 07 2013 15:23 xyzz wrote: Bang should reconsider his career in starcraft 2. That's one of the most laughable fails at pro level I've seen in a long time.
If people retired based off a bad day, we wouldn't have a korean scene.
On August 07 2013 15:23 xyzz wrote: Bang should reconsider his career in starcraft 2. That's one of the most laughable fails at pro level I've seen in a long time.
On August 07 2013 15:23 xyzz wrote: Bang should reconsider his career in starcraft 2. That's one of the most laughable fails at pro level I've seen in a long time.
Loses his marines that are killing the hatch because he's microing two marines against drones somewhere else. LAWL!
On August 07 2013 15:23 xyzz wrote: Bang should reconsider his career in starcraft 2. That's one of the most laughable fails at pro level I've seen in a long time.
If people retired based off a bad day, we wouldn't have a korean scene.
Pretty sure someone retired after Bisu humiliated him in BW.
On August 07 2013 15:23 xyzz wrote: Bang should reconsider his career in starcraft 2. That's one of the most laughable fails at pro level I've seen in a long time.
If people retired based off a bad day, we wouldn't have a korean scene.
Pretty sure someone retired after Bisu humiliated him in BW.
On August 07 2013 15:23 xyzz wrote: Bang should reconsider his career in starcraft 2. That's one of the most laughable fails at pro level I've seen in a long time.
If people retired based off a bad day, we wouldn't have a korean scene.
Pretty sure someone retired after Bisu humiliated him in BW.
Yeah and people retired after losing to Tossgirl because she was female. Doesn't make it a good idea.
On August 07 2013 15:24 xyzz wrote: Why is this guy called herO? Koreans think copying the names of famous players is cool?
He was already herO in Brood War. Actually there were even more heroes floating around, one is competing in Sospa now
It wasn't meant as an attack against this herO in particular, especially if he had the name first, but you saying there's even a third one makes my question more pertinent. Why are people choosing names someone else already has? Professionals in all sports are marketing themselves and it's not really good neither for the viewers nor the players themselves that multiple guys have the same name.
On August 07 2013 15:23 xyzz wrote: Bang should reconsider his career in starcraft 2. That's one of the most laughable fails at pro level I've seen in a long time.
If people retired based off a bad day, we wouldn't have a korean scene.
Pretty sure someone retired after Bisu humiliated him in BW.
the proxy gate guy right?
Yeah, I tried searching for the match/player's name but I couldn't find it. It was hilarious though.
On August 07 2013 15:24 xyzz wrote: Why is this guy called herO? Koreans think copying the names of famous players is cool?
He was already herO in Brood War. Actually there were even more heroes floating around, one is competing in Sospa now
It wasn't meant as an attack against this herO in particular, especially if he had the name first, but you saying there's even a third one makes my question more pertinent. Why are people choosing names someone else already has? Professionals in all sports are marketing themselves and it's not really good neither for the viewers nor the players themselves that multiple guys have the same name.
Koreans go by their actual name in the Korean scene and I believe they copy names out of respect sometimes. I believe there was also a korean clan where they named themselves after top brood war pros
On August 07 2013 15:23 xyzz wrote: Bang should reconsider his career in starcraft 2. That's one of the most laughable fails at pro level I've seen in a long time.
If people retired based off a bad day, we wouldn't have a korean scene.
Pretty sure someone retired after Bisu humiliated him in BW.
the proxy gate guy right?
Yeah, I tried searching for the match/player's name but I couldn't find it. It was hilarious though.
On August 07 2013 15:24 xyzz wrote: Why is this guy called herO? Koreans think copying the names of famous players is cool?
He was already herO in Brood War. Actually there were even more heroes floating around, one is competing in Sospa now
It wasn't meant as an attack against this herO in particular, especially if he had the name first, but you saying there's even a third one makes my question more pertinent. Why are people choosing names someone else already has? Professionals in all sports are marketing themselves and it's not really good neither for the viewers nor the players themselves that multiple guys have the same name.
I honestly can't believe you haven't been permanently banned after some of the shit you write regarding balance, players, and tournaments.
On August 07 2013 15:23 xyzz wrote: Bang should reconsider his career in starcraft 2. That's one of the most laughable fails at pro level I've seen in a long time.
If people retired based off a bad day, we wouldn't have a korean scene.
Pretty sure someone retired after Bisu humiliated him in BW.
the proxy gate guy right?
Yeah, I tried searching for the match/player's name but I couldn't find it. It was hilarious though.
On August 07 2013 15:23 xyzz wrote: Bang should reconsider his career in starcraft 2. That's one of the most laughable fails at pro level I've seen in a long time.
If people retired based off a bad day, we wouldn't have a korean scene.
Pretty sure someone retired after Bisu humiliated him in BW.
the proxy gate guy right?
Yeah, I tried searching for the match/player's name but I couldn't find it. It was hilarious though.
On August 07 2013 15:23 xyzz wrote: Bang should reconsider his career in starcraft 2. That's one of the most laughable fails at pro level I've seen in a long time.
If people retired based off a bad day, we wouldn't have a korean scene.
Pretty sure someone retired after Bisu humiliated him in BW.
the proxy gate guy right?
Yeah, I tried searching for the match/player's name but I couldn't find it. It was hilarious though.
On August 07 2013 15:24 xyzz wrote: Why is this guy called herO? Koreans think copying the names of famous players is cool?
He was already herO in Brood War. Actually there were even more heroes floating around, one is competing in Sospa now
It wasn't meant as an attack against this herO in particular, especially if he had the name first, but you saying there's even a third one makes my question more pertinent. Why are people choosing names someone else already has? Professionals in all sports are marketing themselves and it's not really good neither for the viewers nor the players themselves that multiple guys have the same name.
In Korea the players are usually called by their real names so ID's don't really matter that much to them. It also explains the constant namechanges
On August 07 2013 15:24 xyzz wrote: Why is this guy called herO? Koreans think copying the names of famous players is cool?
He was already herO in Brood War. Actually there were even more heroes floating around, one is competing in Sospa now
It wasn't meant as an attack against this herO in particular, especially if he had the name first, but you saying there's even a third one makes my question more pertinent. Why are people choosing names someone else already has? Professionals in all sports are marketing themselves and it's not really good neither for the viewers nor the players themselves that multiple guys have the same name.
I honestly can't believe you haven't been permanently banned after some of the shit you write regarding balance, players, and tournaments.
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (6)
22%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (5)
19%
★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
27 total votes
Your vote: Recommend herO vs ByuN?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
13 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Bang vs soO?
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
On August 07 2013 15:41 ShowTheLights wrote: what the FUCK did Byun do wrong there?!
Got hit by 1 storm
Byun was also technically overmaking vikings at the end and not enough medivacs - even though it looked like Byun had a supply lead a lot of his army was in the red so it swung quickly.
Is this real life?! Life done for 2013! No chance for season's finals, region finals or blizzcon. He's got nothing to play for anymore except code a to get back in to code s for 2014!
On August 07 2013 15:41 ShowTheLights wrote: what the FUCK did Byun do wrong there?!
Got hit by 1 storm
Byun was also technically overmaking vikings at the end and not enough medivacs - even though it looked like Byun had a supply lead a lot of his army was in the red so it swung quickly.
On August 07 2013 15:41 ShowTheLights wrote: what the FUCK did Byun do wrong there?!
Got hit by 1 storm
Byun was also technically overmaking vikings at the end and not enough medivacs - even though it looked like Byun had a supply lead a lot of his army was in the red so it swung quickly.
Yeah, after herO mis-recalled his army Byun stimmed a couple of times to kill some leftover units. His units actually never got healed to full after that because he literally had like 2-4 vacs.
On August 07 2013 15:49 Daswollvieh wrote: Man, I wish Kespa would open up a bakery, so I wouldn´t have to be disgusted every morning by mediocre food.
On August 07 2013 15:43 poisui wrote: As expected from Kespa.
On August 01 2013 19:39 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! =)
On August 01 2013 18:58 poisui wrote: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Kespa hwaiting. =)
On July 25 2013 15:36 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting. :D
On July 06 2013 14:17 poisui wrote: We get to see Snute get ripped apart by Kespa. :D
On July 02 2013 18:33 poisui wrote: Kespa players are just too good. :D
On July 02 2013 18:19 poisui wrote: Kespa maps are the best. :D
On July 02 2013 15:33 poisui wrote: Soulkey, Bbyong, and Fantasy, go go go!!! Kespa hwaiting!!
like literally your last ten posts
lol bitter much? hows your thousand one liners about Prime different?
you don't root for kespa or esf unless your intention is to bait(especially when people find it a very touchy subject), rooting for teams is different.
On August 07 2013 15:49 Daswollvieh wrote: Man, I wish Kespa would open up a bakery, so I wouldn´t have to be disgusted every morning by mediocre food.
Kespa Bakery Rules 1. Exact change only. 2. You must say "ty" or else your order is cancelled. "tyvm" not accepted. "thanks" also not accepted. 3. Only 1 loaf of bread every hour. 4. Once you enter the bakery you cannot leave until you've purchased something, or else you go to Kespa Bakery Jail 5. Your face will be shown a big screen monitor for everyone to see.
Wait, why is the last game between Bang and soO not played? If Bang wins, wouldn't it mean a 3 way tie between Life, Byun, and soO? Why is soO getting a bye just because Bang is already out?
On August 07 2013 15:52 DigitalDevil wrote: Wait, why is the last game between Bang and soO not played? If Bang wins, wouldn't it mean a 3 way tie between Life, Byun, and soO? Why is soO getting a bye just because Bang is already out?
No. Life already lost to soO and Byun, and soO beat Byun.
On August 07 2013 15:52 DigitalDevil wrote: Wait, why is the last game between Bang and soO not played? If Bang wins, wouldn't it mean a 3 way tie between Life, Byun, and soO? Why is soO getting a bye just because Bang is already out?
On August 07 2013 15:52 DigitalDevil wrote: Wait, why is the last game between Bang and soO not played? If Bang wins, wouldn't it mean a 3 way tie between Life, Byun, and soO? Why is soO getting a bye just because Bang is already out?
On August 07 2013 15:43 poisui wrote: As expected from Kespa.
On August 01 2013 19:39 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! =)
On August 01 2013 18:58 poisui wrote: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Kespa hwaiting. =)
On July 25 2013 15:36 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting. :D
On July 06 2013 14:17 poisui wrote: We get to see Snute get ripped apart by Kespa. :D
On July 02 2013 18:33 poisui wrote: Kespa players are just too good. :D
On July 02 2013 18:19 poisui wrote: Kespa maps are the best. :D
On July 02 2013 15:33 poisui wrote: Soulkey, Bbyong, and Fantasy, go go go!!! Kespa hwaiting!!
like literally your last ten posts
Awwww. Are you butthurt that Kespa owned the night?
It's hilarious how your sole reason for existing is to pop out like an annoying little mole and squeak your Kespa nonsense whenever a Kespa player wins. And the difference between normal fans and people like you is that you're constantly pushing the "Kespa is better than everyone else" agenda, which is the annoying part. opterown is a huge Prime fanboy, but he doesn't try to claim that all of Prime is somehow superior players than everyone else, and he also actually contributes to the community in productive ways.
Also, I'm disappointed that you didn't have the balls to leave your post as it was when Bomber beat Flash in the OSL. You edited it out after Bomber won, which I found funny
On August 07 2013 15:43 poisui wrote: As expected from Kespa.
Where were you guys last night when Soulkey died?
First basically kespa dude he avenged soulkey
No dude.
He's been disconnected from the Kespa umbilical cord for too long.
He's IM now.
you're forgetting IM is kespa
Plus MC is partnered with IM, makes him Kespa. Hence KeSPA won the most championships at the start of WoL and had the 3 best players for each race in that game.
On August 07 2013 15:55 lichter wrote: I like how HyuN is going to make it to Blizzcon while Life and Flash won't hahaha
Farming Foreigners can have it's benefits. Oh and Flash still has an outside chance, pretty much if he rocks next season and does well at the season 3 finals. Life is dead in the water though.
On August 07 2013 15:43 poisui wrote: As expected from Kespa.
On August 01 2013 19:39 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! =)
On August 01 2013 18:58 poisui wrote: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Kespa hwaiting. =)
On July 25 2013 15:36 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting. :D
On July 06 2013 14:17 poisui wrote: We get to see Snute get ripped apart by Kespa. :D
On July 02 2013 18:33 poisui wrote: Kespa players are just too good. :D
On July 02 2013 18:19 poisui wrote: Kespa maps are the best. :D
On July 02 2013 15:33 poisui wrote: Soulkey, Bbyong, and Fantasy, go go go!!! Kespa hwaiting!!
like literally your last ten posts
lol bitter much? hows your thousand one liners about Prime different?
you don't root for kespa or esf unless your intention is to bait(especially when people find it a very touchy subject), rooting for teams is different.
lol so not true, i like the bw pros so i basically root for all kespa players with minimal baiting
On August 07 2013 15:43 poisui wrote: As expected from Kespa.
On August 01 2013 19:39 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! =)
On August 01 2013 18:58 poisui wrote: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Kespa hwaiting. =)
On July 25 2013 15:36 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting. :D
On July 06 2013 14:17 poisui wrote: We get to see Snute get ripped apart by Kespa. :D
On July 02 2013 18:33 poisui wrote: Kespa players are just too good. :D
On July 02 2013 18:19 poisui wrote: Kespa maps are the best. :D
On July 02 2013 15:33 poisui wrote: Soulkey, Bbyong, and Fantasy, go go go!!! Kespa hwaiting!!
like literally your last ten posts
lol bitter much? hows your thousand one liners about Prime different?
you don't root for kespa or esf unless your intention is to bait(especially when people find it a very touchy subject), rooting for teams is different.
lol so not true, i like the bw pros so i basically root for all kespa players with minimal baiting
you bait plenty, although it's a bit better of late, but yeah there are true kespa fans who like kespa rather than elitist idiots
On August 07 2013 15:43 poisui wrote: As expected from Kespa.
On August 01 2013 19:39 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! =)
On August 01 2013 18:58 poisui wrote: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Kespa hwaiting. =)
On July 25 2013 15:36 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting. :D
On July 06 2013 14:17 poisui wrote: We get to see Snute get ripped apart by Kespa. :D
On July 02 2013 18:33 poisui wrote: Kespa players are just too good. :D
On July 02 2013 18:19 poisui wrote: Kespa maps are the best. :D
On July 02 2013 15:33 poisui wrote: Soulkey, Bbyong, and Fantasy, go go go!!! Kespa hwaiting!!
like literally your last ten posts
lol bitter much? hows your thousand one liners about Prime different?
you don't root for kespa or esf unless your intention is to bait(especially when people find it a very touchy subject), rooting for teams is different.
lol so not true, i like the bw pros so i basically root for all kespa players with minimal baiting
They are new to the scene, they don't understand us older fans, so they bash us with their majority hammers. And also what's so bad about baiting?
On August 07 2013 15:52 DigitalDevil wrote: Wait, why is the last game between Bang and soO not played? If Bang wins, wouldn't it mean a 3 way tie between Life, Byun, and soO? Why is soO getting a bye just because Bang is already out?
soO beat both Life and ByuN, so he advances.
That's unfair. He basically got an advantage due to the order of the matches played. He only played 3 matches and lost 1 and could have potentially lost another one, just like Life and Byun. You could say that Life beat herO, who beat soO. And soO could have potentially lost to Bang who lost to Life and Byun. It's a rock paper scissors scenario. You can't say that rock is superior to paper because it beats scissors, which beats paper.
On August 07 2013 15:43 poisui wrote: As expected from Kespa.
On August 01 2013 19:39 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! =)
On August 01 2013 18:58 poisui wrote: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Kespa hwaiting. =)
On July 25 2013 15:36 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting. :D
On July 06 2013 14:17 poisui wrote: We get to see Snute get ripped apart by Kespa. :D
On July 02 2013 18:33 poisui wrote: Kespa players are just too good. :D
On July 02 2013 18:19 poisui wrote: Kespa maps are the best. :D
On July 02 2013 15:33 poisui wrote: Soulkey, Bbyong, and Fantasy, go go go!!! Kespa hwaiting!!
like literally your last ten posts
lol bitter much? hows your thousand one liners about Prime different?
you don't root for kespa or esf unless your intention is to bait(especially when people find it a very touchy subject), rooting for teams is different.
lol so not true, i like the bw pros so i basically root for all kespa players with minimal baiting
They are new to the scene, they don't understand us older fans, so they bash us with their majority hammers.
On August 07 2013 15:43 poisui wrote: As expected from Kespa.
On August 01 2013 19:39 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! =)
On August 01 2013 18:58 poisui wrote: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Kespa hwaiting. =)
On July 25 2013 15:36 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting. :D
On July 06 2013 14:17 poisui wrote: We get to see Snute get ripped apart by Kespa. :D
On July 02 2013 18:33 poisui wrote: Kespa players are just too good. :D
On July 02 2013 18:19 poisui wrote: Kespa maps are the best. :D
On July 02 2013 15:33 poisui wrote: Soulkey, Bbyong, and Fantasy, go go go!!! Kespa hwaiting!!
like literally your last ten posts
lol bitter much? hows your thousand one liners about Prime different?
you don't root for kespa or esf unless your intention is to bait(especially when people find it a very touchy subject), rooting for teams is different.
lol so not true, i like the bw pros so i basically root for all kespa players with minimal baiting
you bait plenty, although it's a bit better of late, but yeah there are true kespa fans who like kespa rather than elitist idiots
Wow that PoiSoi guy really should be banned for such excessive provoking. Edit: oh not all those posts were today/in this thread. I guess hes less annoying then.
On August 07 2013 15:52 DigitalDevil wrote: Wait, why is the last game between Bang and soO not played? If Bang wins, wouldn't it mean a 3 way tie between Life, Byun, and soO? Why is soO getting a bye just because Bang is already out?
soO beat both Life and ByuN, so he advances.
That's unfair. He basically got an advantage due to the order of the matches played. He only played 3 matches and lost 1 and could have potentially lost another one, just like Life and Byun. You could say that Life beat herO, who beat soO. And soO could have potentially lost to Bang who lost to Life and Byun. It's a rock paper scissors scenario. You can't say that rock is superior to paper because it beats scissors, which beats paper.
If soO wins, he is through
If soO loses, he is tied, but wins the first tiebreaker, which is head-to-head record with those tied with him. Other results don't matter in weighing this tiebreaker.
It's not unfair. Head-to-head is a legitimate tiebreaker since he beat both the two involved in the tie.
On August 07 2013 15:43 poisui wrote: As expected from Kespa.
On August 01 2013 19:39 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! =)
On August 01 2013 18:58 poisui wrote: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Kespa hwaiting. =)
On July 25 2013 15:36 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting. :D
On July 06 2013 14:17 poisui wrote: We get to see Snute get ripped apart by Kespa. :D
On July 02 2013 18:33 poisui wrote: Kespa players are just too good. :D
On July 02 2013 18:19 poisui wrote: Kespa maps are the best. :D
On July 02 2013 15:33 poisui wrote: Soulkey, Bbyong, and Fantasy, go go go!!! Kespa hwaiting!!
like literally your last ten posts
lol bitter much? hows your thousand one liners about Prime different?
you don't root for kespa or esf unless your intention is to bait(especially when people find it a very touchy subject), rooting for teams is different.
lol so not true, i like the bw pros so i basically root for all kespa players with minimal baiting
They are new to the scene, they don't understand us older fans, so they bash us with their majority hammers.
On August 07 2013 15:43 poisui wrote: As expected from Kespa.
On August 01 2013 19:39 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! =)
On August 01 2013 18:58 poisui wrote: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Kespa hwaiting. =)
On July 25 2013 15:36 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting. :D
On July 06 2013 14:17 poisui wrote: We get to see Snute get ripped apart by Kespa. :D
On July 02 2013 18:33 poisui wrote: Kespa players are just too good. :D
On July 02 2013 18:19 poisui wrote: Kespa maps are the best. :D
On July 02 2013 15:33 poisui wrote: Soulkey, Bbyong, and Fantasy, go go go!!! Kespa hwaiting!!
like literally your last ten posts
lol bitter much? hows your thousand one liners about Prime different?
you don't root for kespa or esf unless your intention is to bait(especially when people find it a very touchy subject), rooting for teams is different.
lol so not true, i like the bw pros so i basically root for all kespa players with minimal baiting
you bait plenty, although it's a bit better of late, but yeah there are true kespa fans who like kespa rather than elitist idiots
There would barely be any baiting discussion if you didn`t drag it up every 2nd thread where someone posts the word kespa
On August 07 2013 15:43 poisui wrote: As expected from Kespa.
On August 01 2013 19:39 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! =)
On August 01 2013 18:58 poisui wrote: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Kespa hwaiting. =)
On July 25 2013 15:36 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting. :D
On July 06 2013 14:17 poisui wrote: We get to see Snute get ripped apart by Kespa. :D
On July 02 2013 18:33 poisui wrote: Kespa players are just too good. :D
On July 02 2013 18:19 poisui wrote: Kespa maps are the best. :D
On July 02 2013 15:33 poisui wrote: Soulkey, Bbyong, and Fantasy, go go go!!! Kespa hwaiting!!
like literally your last ten posts
lol bitter much? hows your thousand one liners about Prime different?
you don't root for kespa or esf unless your intention is to bait(especially when people find it a very touchy subject), rooting for teams is different.
lol so not true, i like the bw pros so i basically root for all kespa players with minimal baiting
you bait plenty, although it's a bit better of late, but yeah there are true kespa fans who like kespa rather than elitist idiots
There would barely be any baiting discussion if you didn`t drag it up every 2nd thread where someone posts the word kespa
On August 07 2013 15:52 DigitalDevil wrote: Wait, why is the last game between Bang and soO not played? If Bang wins, wouldn't it mean a 3 way tie between Life, Byun, and soO? Why is soO getting a bye just because Bang is already out?
soO beat both Life and ByuN, so he advances.
That's unfair. He basically got an advantage due to the order of the matches played. He only played 3 matches and lost 1 and could have potentially lost another one, just like Life and Byun. You could say that Life beat herO, who beat soO. And soO could have potentially lost to Bang who lost to Life and Byun. It's a rock paper scissors scenario. You can't say that rock is superior to paper because it beats scissors, which beats paper.
If soO wins, he is through
If soO loses, he is tied, but wins the first tiebreaker, which is head-to-head record with those tied with him. Other results don't matter in weighing this tiebreaker.
It's not unfair. Head-to-head is a legitimate tiebreaker since he beat both the two involved in the tie.
soO's losses before the tiebreaker give him an advantage because they were to other people, whom Life and Byun may have beaten. They all lost 2 games, which should all be weighted equally.
On August 07 2013 16:08 Shellshock1122 wrote: I was looking at the up and down groups and I think there's actually a legit chance we might see 0 terrans advance
KeeN is probably the best chance left
I think Fantasy is through. Marineking has a manageable group, but he's disadvantaged by the fact that he's Marineking.
The fun thing is that Kespa elitists are nowhere to be seen when Maru rolls Innovation, Bomber destroys Flash and Innovation, Supernova knocks out Soulkey, etc.etc. but when two good players that happen to be on Kespa teams make it through an Up/Down group with Bo1 format, everybody loses their minds
On August 07 2013 16:08 Shellshock1122 wrote: I was looking at the up and down groups and I think there's actually a legit chance we might see 0 terrans advance
KeeN is probably the best chance left
I think Fantasy is through. Marineking has a manageable group, but he's disadvantaged by the fact that he's Marineking.
Fantasy definitely has a chance but personally I think he's pretty overrated in sc2 due to his BW accomplishments and could see him falling. He hasn't been exactly the most consistent sc2 player. Some days he looks pretty good, other days, not so much
On August 07 2013 16:10 DarkLordOlli wrote: The fun thing is that Kespa elitists are nowhere to be seen when Maru rolls Innovation, Bomber destroys Flash and Innovation, Supernova knocks out Soulkey, etc.etc. but when two good players that happen to be on Kespa teams make it through an Up/Down group with Bo1 format, everybody loses their minds
On August 07 2013 15:52 DigitalDevil wrote: Wait, why is the last game between Bang and soO not played? If Bang wins, wouldn't it mean a 3 way tie between Life, Byun, and soO? Why is soO getting a bye just because Bang is already out?
soO beat both Life and ByuN, so he advances.
That's unfair. He basically got an advantage due to the order of the matches played. He only played 3 matches and lost 1 and could have potentially lost another one, just like Life and Byun. You could say that Life beat herO, who beat soO. And soO could have potentially lost to Bang who lost to Life and Byun. It's a rock paper scissors scenario. You can't say that rock is superior to paper because it beats scissors, which beats paper.
If soO wins, he is through
If soO loses, he is tied, but wins the first tiebreaker, which is head-to-head record with those tied with him. Other results don't matter in weighing this tiebreaker.
It's not unfair. Head-to-head is a legitimate tiebreaker since he beat both the two involved in the tie.
soO's losses before the tiebreaker give him an advantage because they were to other people, whom Life and Byun may have beaten. They all lost 2 games, which should all be weighted equally.
The order is drawn randomly, so you can't blame it on that. The results are what they are and players shouldn't blame it on the luck of the draw. Because if you start that line of thinking, might as well blame "unfavorable maps" which are also semi-random. You can't go x > y > z to gauge the tied players including their games against other players, because it doesn't make sense and will always be tied. There are also no mapscores since this is Bo1.
Head-to-head between tied players is the fairest first tiebreaker.
soO beat both Life and ByuN. You can't just throw that away.
You could do a tiebreaker with soO up 2-0, ByuN 1-1 and Life 0-2 and make it a race to 3 wins. But that is excessively complicated.
On August 07 2013 15:43 poisui wrote: As expected from Kespa.
On August 01 2013 19:39 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! =)
On August 01 2013 18:58 poisui wrote: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Kespa hwaiting. =)
On July 25 2013 15:36 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting. :D
On July 06 2013 14:17 poisui wrote: We get to see Snute get ripped apart by Kespa. :D
On July 02 2013 18:33 poisui wrote: Kespa players are just too good. :D
On July 02 2013 18:19 poisui wrote: Kespa maps are the best. :D
On July 02 2013 15:33 poisui wrote: Soulkey, Bbyong, and Fantasy, go go go!!! Kespa hwaiting!!
like literally your last ten posts
lol bitter much? hows your thousand one liners about Prime different?
you don't root for kespa or esf unless your intention is to bait(especially when people find it a very touchy subject), rooting for teams is different.
lol so not true, i like the bw pros so i basically root for all kespa players with minimal baiting
you bait plenty, although it's a bit better of late, but yeah there are true kespa fans who like kespa rather than elitist idiots
There would barely be any baiting discussion if you didn`t drag it up every 2nd thread where someone posts the word kespa
It's painfully obvious that poisui's a baiter. Baiting != cheering for Kespa. Baiting = implying or outright saying that Kespa players are all better than everyone else, which is what annoys everybody because it's so obviously untrue.
On August 07 2013 16:08 Shellshock1122 wrote: I was looking at the up and down groups and I think there's actually a legit chance we might see 0 terrans advance
KeeN is probably the best chance left
Well, almost every terran either qualified by bei g in the Ro8 or by winning the Code A bracket. There are 't too many terrans around right now - but the ones which are around simply don't lose :-/
On August 07 2013 15:43 poisui wrote: As expected from Kespa.
On August 01 2013 19:39 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! =)
On August 01 2013 18:58 poisui wrote: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Kespa hwaiting. =)
On July 25 2013 15:36 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting. :D
On July 06 2013 14:17 poisui wrote: We get to see Snute get ripped apart by Kespa. :D
On July 02 2013 18:33 poisui wrote: Kespa players are just too good. :D
On July 02 2013 18:19 poisui wrote: Kespa maps are the best. :D
On July 02 2013 15:33 poisui wrote: Soulkey, Bbyong, and Fantasy, go go go!!! Kespa hwaiting!!
like literally your last ten posts
lol bitter much? hows your thousand one liners about Prime different?
you don't root for kespa or esf unless your intention is to bait(especially when people find it a very touchy subject), rooting for teams is different.
lol so not true, i like the bw pros so i basically root for all kespa players with minimal baiting
you bait plenty, although it's a bit better of late, but yeah there are true kespa fans who like kespa rather than elitist idiots
There would barely be any baiting discussion if you didn`t drag it up every 2nd thread where someone posts the word kespa
It's painfully obvious that poisui's a baiter. Baiting != cheering for Kespa. Baiting = implying or outright saying that Kespa players are all better than everyone else, which is what annoys everybody because it's so obviously untrue.
What's so bad about baiting anyway? Definitely better than bashing, and some of those "fuck u some player" comments.
On August 07 2013 16:16 sc2holar wrote: It would be fitting for Life to retire aswell now along with stephano. This is the end of the WoL Monster Zergs :/
On August 07 2013 15:43 poisui wrote: As expected from Kespa.
On August 01 2013 19:39 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! =)
On August 01 2013 18:58 poisui wrote: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Kespa hwaiting. =)
On July 25 2013 15:36 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting. :D
On July 06 2013 14:17 poisui wrote: We get to see Snute get ripped apart by Kespa. :D
On July 02 2013 18:33 poisui wrote: Kespa players are just too good. :D
On July 02 2013 18:19 poisui wrote: Kespa maps are the best. :D
On July 02 2013 15:33 poisui wrote: Soulkey, Bbyong, and Fantasy, go go go!!! Kespa hwaiting!!
like literally your last ten posts
lol bitter much? hows your thousand one liners about Prime different?
you don't root for kespa or esf unless your intention is to bait(especially when people find it a very touchy subject), rooting for teams is different.
lol so not true, i like the bw pros so i basically root for all kespa players with minimal baiting
you bait plenty, although it's a bit better of late, but yeah there are true kespa fans who like kespa rather than elitist idiots
There would barely be any baiting discussion if you didn`t drag it up every 2nd thread where someone posts the word kespa
It's painfully obvious that poisui's a baiter. Baiting != cheering for Kespa. Baiting = implying or outright saying that Kespa players are all better than everyone else, which is what annoys everybody because it's so obviously untrue.
What's so bad about baiting anyway? Definitely better than bashing, and some of those "fuck u some player" comments.
It's annoying and it's pure hypocrisy because it only happens when Kespa players do well. Those same people are awfully quiet when Innovation gets 4-0d by eSF player Maru. That and it tries to provoke a discussion that nobody wants to have.
On August 07 2013 16:16 sc2holar wrote: It would be fitting for Life to retire aswell now along with stephano. This is the end of the WoL Monster Zergs :/
Nestea, DRG, and Leenock would have to go too.
Those 5 deserve to be the best of WoL based on accomplishments, consistency, innovation, and peak performances.
On August 07 2013 15:43 poisui wrote: As expected from Kespa.
On August 01 2013 19:39 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! =)
On August 01 2013 18:58 poisui wrote: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Kespa hwaiting. =)
On July 25 2013 15:36 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting. :D
On July 06 2013 14:17 poisui wrote: We get to see Snute get ripped apart by Kespa. :D
On July 02 2013 18:33 poisui wrote: Kespa players are just too good. :D
On July 02 2013 18:19 poisui wrote: Kespa maps are the best. :D
On July 02 2013 15:33 poisui wrote: Soulkey, Bbyong, and Fantasy, go go go!!! Kespa hwaiting!!
like literally your last ten posts
lol bitter much? hows your thousand one liners about Prime different?
you don't root for kespa or esf unless your intention is to bait(especially when people find it a very touchy subject), rooting for teams is different.
lol so not true, i like the bw pros so i basically root for all kespa players with minimal baiting
you bait plenty, although it's a bit better of late, but yeah there are true kespa fans who like kespa rather than elitist idiots
There would barely be any baiting discussion if you didn`t drag it up every 2nd thread where someone posts the word kespa
It's painfully obvious that poisui's a baiter. Baiting != cheering for Kespa. Baiting = implying or outright saying that Kespa players are all better than everyone else, which is what annoys everybody because it's so obviously untrue.
What's so bad about baiting anyway? Definitely better than bashing, and some of those "fuck u some player" comments.
It's annoying and it's pure hypocrisy because it only happens when Kespa players do well. Those same people are awfully quiet when Innovation gets 4-0d by eSF player Maru.
On August 07 2013 15:44 opterown wrote: [quote] [quote] [quote] [quote] [quote] [quote] [quote] [quote] like literally your last ten posts
lol bitter much? hows your thousand one liners about Prime different?
you don't root for kespa or esf unless your intention is to bait(especially when people find it a very touchy subject), rooting for teams is different.
lol so not true, i like the bw pros so i basically root for all kespa players with minimal baiting
you bait plenty, although it's a bit better of late, but yeah there are true kespa fans who like kespa rather than elitist idiots
There would barely be any baiting discussion if you didn`t drag it up every 2nd thread where someone posts the word kespa
It's painfully obvious that poisui's a baiter. Baiting != cheering for Kespa. Baiting = implying or outright saying that Kespa players are all better than everyone else, which is what annoys everybody because it's so obviously untrue.
What's so bad about baiting anyway? Definitely better than bashing, and some of those "fuck u some player" comments.
It's annoying and it's pure hypocrisy because it only happens when Kespa players do well. Those same people are awfully quiet when Innovation gets 4-0d by eSF player Maru.
On August 07 2013 16:10 DarkLordOlli wrote: The fun thing is that Kespa elitists are nowhere to be seen when Maru rolls Innovation, Bomber destroys Flash and Innovation, Supernova knocks out Soulkey, etc.etc. but when two good players that happen to be on Kespa teams make it through an Up/Down group with Bo1 format, everybody loses their minds
Dont worry bro. theres one super sensitive, rage-infused, Hank Schrader-like LRPD officer who loves calling socalled "baiter" out of their bs The thing is he only does so when KeSPA players win. I suggest him stepping up his game next time the opposite occurs.
(or you know, we can just ignore them "baiter" to avoid a few pages of bitterness and rage)
I just discovered something random and funny, the song that Kespa used for the player introductions for the 12-13 PL season was a song that GOM already used at a GSL finals in 2011.
On August 07 2013 16:10 DarkLordOlli wrote: The fun thing is that Kespa elitists are nowhere to be seen when Maru rolls Innovation, Bomber destroys Flash and Innovation, Supernova knocks out Soulkey, etc.etc. but when two good players that happen to be on Kespa teams make it through an Up/Down group with Bo1 format, everybody loses their minds
Dont worry bro. theres one super sensitive, rage-infused, Hank Schrader-like LRPD officer who loves calling socalled "baiter" out of their bs The thing is he only does so when KeSPA players win. I suggest him stepping up his game next time the opposite occurs.
(or you know, we can just ignore them "baiter" to avoid a few pages of bitterness and rage)
don't be a hypocrite, you can easily ignore this officer.
and i do tell people to be quiet when kespa loses, you need to pay more attention.
On August 07 2013 16:24 Dodgin wrote: I just discovered something random and funny, the song that Kespa used for the player introductions for the 12-13 PL season was a song that GOM already used at a GSL finals in 2011.
On August 07 2013 16:16 sc2holar wrote: It would be fitting for Life to retire aswell now along with stephano. This is the end of the WoL Monster Zergs :/
Nestea, DRG, and Leenock would have to go too.
Those 5 deserve to be the best of WoL based on accomplishments, consistency, innovation, and peak performances.
Oh, are they still here around? havent seen them do anything in the past 6 months or so.
its time for a new breed of zerg to step in and show the world the true potential of the swarm.
On August 07 2013 16:16 sc2holar wrote: It would be fitting for Life to retire aswell now along with stephano. This is the end of the WoL Monster Zergs :/
Nestea, DRG, and Leenock would have to go too.
Those 5 deserve to be the best of WoL based on accomplishments, consistency, innovation, and peak performances.
Oh, are they still here around? havent seen them do anything in the past 6 months or so.
its time for a new breed of zerg to step in and show the world the true potential of the swarm.
Leenock won a Dreamhack and DRG made a little progress at IEM and ASUS ROG
aside from that, no, not really much of note for the WoL Zerg heroes.
On August 07 2013 16:16 sc2holar wrote: It would be fitting for Life to retire aswell now along with stephano. This is the end of the WoL Monster Zergs :/
Nestea, DRG, and Leenock would have to go too.
Those 5 deserve to be the best of WoL based on accomplishments, consistency, innovation, and peak performances.
Oh, are they still here around? havent seen them do anything in the past 6 months or so.
its time for a new breed of zerg to step in and show the world the true potential of the swarm.
aside from that, no, not really much of note for the WoL Zerg heroes.
Its a little sad but once Jaedong gets his act togheter completley i wont care anymore. There can only be one Tyrant.
On August 07 2013 16:16 sc2holar wrote: It would be fitting for Life to retire aswell now along with stephano. This is the end of the WoL Monster Zergs :/
Nestea, DRG, and Leenock would have to go too.
Those 5 deserve to be the best of WoL based on accomplishments, consistency, innovation, and peak performances.
Oh, are they still here around? havent seen them do anything in the past 6 months or so.
its time for a new breed of zerg to step in and show the world the true potential of the swarm.
Leenock won a Dreamhack and DRG made a little progress at IEM and ASUS ROG
aside from that, no, not really much of note for the WoL Zerg heroes.
...Its not November yet Leenock will be back. Leenock always delivers in November.
On August 07 2013 16:10 DarkLordOlli wrote: The fun thing is that Kespa elitists are nowhere to be seen when Maru rolls Innovation, Bomber destroys Flash and Innovation, Supernova knocks out Soulkey, etc.etc. but when two good players that happen to be on Kespa teams make it through an Up/Down group with Bo1 format, everybody loses their minds
Dont worry bro. theres one super sensitive, rage-infused, Hank Schrader-like LRPD officer who loves calling socalled "baiter" out of their bs The thing is he only does so when KeSPA players win. I suggest him stepping up his game next time the opposite occurs.
(or you know, we can just ignore them "baiter" to avoid a few pages of bitterness and rage)
don't be a hypocrite, you can easily ignore this officer.
You could learn from that. A few 'kespa so good' comments is hardly worth shitting up threads with a crusade against non-bannable posts (if they are actual baits it just encourages them anyway). If you really care that much about it lobby the mods privately to take action on these chronic 'baiters', otherwise just ignore it like I ignore most fanboy spam.
On August 07 2013 16:10 DarkLordOlli wrote: The fun thing is that Kespa elitists are nowhere to be seen when Maru rolls Innovation, Bomber destroys Flash and Innovation, Supernova knocks out Soulkey, etc.etc. but when two good players that happen to be on Kespa teams make it through an Up/Down group with Bo1 format, everybody loses their minds
Dont worry bro. theres one super sensitive, rage-infused, Hank Schrader-like LRPD officer who loves calling socalled "baiter" out of their bs The thing is he only does so when KeSPA players win. I suggest him stepping up his game next time the opposite occurs.
(or you know, we can just ignore them "baiter" to avoid a few pages of bitterness and rage)
don't be a hypocrite, you can easily ignore this officer.
and i do tell people to be quiet when kespa loses, you need to pay more attention.
I cheer for esf players but I don't find baiter annoying. Keeps the game fun. Same for every sport. I do find some of the elitist comments annoying but it makes seeing esf kicking Kespa asses much more fun (which happens more than enough this season). Also had so much laugh at that joke of a PR :D
On August 07 2013 15:43 poisui wrote: As expected from Kespa.
On August 01 2013 19:39 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! =)
On August 01 2013 18:58 poisui wrote: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Kespa hwaiting. =)
On July 25 2013 15:36 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting. :D
On July 06 2013 14:17 poisui wrote: We get to see Snute get ripped apart by Kespa. :D
On July 02 2013 18:33 poisui wrote: Kespa players are just too good. :D
On July 02 2013 18:19 poisui wrote: Kespa maps are the best. :D
On July 02 2013 15:33 poisui wrote: Soulkey, Bbyong, and Fantasy, go go go!!! Kespa hwaiting!!
like literally your last ten posts
lol bitter much? hows your thousand one liners about Prime different?
you don't root for kespa or esf unless your intention is to bait(especially when people find it a very touchy subject), rooting for teams is different.
lol so not true, i like the bw pros so i basically root for all kespa players with minimal baiting
you bait plenty, although it's a bit better of late, but yeah there are true kespa fans who like kespa rather than elitist idiots
There would barely be any baiting discussion if you didn`t drag it up every 2nd thread where someone posts the word kespa
It's painfully obvious that poisui's a baiter. Baiting != cheering for Kespa. Baiting = implying or outright saying that Kespa players are all better than everyone else, which is what annoys everybody because it's so obviously untrue.
What's so bad about baiting anyway? Definitely better than bashing, and some of those "fuck u some player" comments.
It promotes vitriol in the forums and is completely unnessassary. Its trolling, and trolling isnt cool.
On August 07 2013 15:43 poisui wrote: As expected from Kespa.
On August 01 2013 19:39 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! =)
On August 01 2013 18:58 poisui wrote: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Kespa hwaiting. =)
On July 25 2013 15:36 poisui wrote: Kespa hwaiting. :D
On July 06 2013 14:17 poisui wrote: We get to see Snute get ripped apart by Kespa. :D
On July 02 2013 18:33 poisui wrote: Kespa players are just too good. :D
On July 02 2013 18:19 poisui wrote: Kespa maps are the best. :D
On July 02 2013 15:33 poisui wrote: Soulkey, Bbyong, and Fantasy, go go go!!! Kespa hwaiting!!
like literally your last ten posts
lol bitter much? hows your thousand one liners about Prime different?
you don't root for kespa or esf unless your intention is to bait(especially when people find it a very touchy subject), rooting for teams is different.
lol so not true, i like the bw pros so i basically root for all kespa players with minimal baiting
you bait plenty, although it's a bit better of late, but yeah there are true kespa fans who like kespa rather than elitist idiots
There would barely be any baiting discussion if you didn`t drag it up every 2nd thread where someone posts the word kespa
It's painfully obvious that poisui's a baiter. Baiting != cheering for Kespa. Baiting = implying or outright saying that Kespa players are all better than everyone else, which is what annoys everybody because it's so obviously untrue.
What's so bad about baiting anyway? Definitely better than bashing, and some of those "fuck u some player" comments.
It promotes vitriol in the forums and is completely unnessassary. Its trolling, and trolling isnt cool.
I find it pretty funny now since it's been going on for so long
edgeOut once called me a coward though, it hurt my internet feelings
Has anyone read an interview with Life post HoTS or something where he explains why he seems to struggle so much? he was looking like the next Bonjwa during the last days of WoL and won the first international major HoTS tournament...
On August 07 2013 15:44 opterown wrote: [quote] [quote] [quote] [quote] [quote] [quote] [quote] [quote] like literally your last ten posts
lol bitter much? hows your thousand one liners about Prime different?
you don't root for kespa or esf unless your intention is to bait(especially when people find it a very touchy subject), rooting for teams is different.
lol so not true, i like the bw pros so i basically root for all kespa players with minimal baiting
you bait plenty, although it's a bit better of late, but yeah there are true kespa fans who like kespa rather than elitist idiots
There would barely be any baiting discussion if you didn`t drag it up every 2nd thread where someone posts the word kespa
It's painfully obvious that poisui's a baiter. Baiting != cheering for Kespa. Baiting = implying or outright saying that Kespa players are all better than everyone else, which is what annoys everybody because it's so obviously untrue.
What's so bad about baiting anyway? Definitely better than bashing, and some of those "fuck u some player" comments.
It promotes vitriol in the forums and is completely unnessassary. Its trolling, and trolling isnt cool.
I find it pretty funny now since it's been going on for so long
edgeOut once called me a coward though, it hurt my internet feelings
Why didn't you internet beat him up as it is expected of the LR batman?
On August 07 2013 16:49 sc2holar wrote: Has anyone read an interview with Life post HoTS or something where he explains why he seems to struggle so much? he was looking like the next Bonjwa during the last days of WoL...
HoTS changes a lot of strategies and Life's style is no longer strong. Not just Life, it happens to many of the top WoL players.
On August 07 2013 15:47 Arceus wrote: [quote] lol bitter much? hows your thousand one liners about Prime different?
you don't root for kespa or esf unless your intention is to bait(especially when people find it a very touchy subject), rooting for teams is different.
lol so not true, i like the bw pros so i basically root for all kespa players with minimal baiting
you bait plenty, although it's a bit better of late, but yeah there are true kespa fans who like kespa rather than elitist idiots
There would barely be any baiting discussion if you didn`t drag it up every 2nd thread where someone posts the word kespa
It's painfully obvious that poisui's a baiter. Baiting != cheering for Kespa. Baiting = implying or outright saying that Kespa players are all better than everyone else, which is what annoys everybody because it's so obviously untrue.
What's so bad about baiting anyway? Definitely better than bashing, and some of those "fuck u some player" comments.
It promotes vitriol in the forums and is completely unnessassary. Its trolling, and trolling isnt cool.
I find it pretty funny now since it's been going on for so long
edgeOut once called me a coward though, it hurt my internet feelings
Why didn't you internet beat him up as it is expected of the LR batman?
LR batman was still in his infancy, unprepared to face the true horrors of LR threads.
Had byun won that game he would have advanced along with Life because of the head-to-head tiebreakers. One game decided the fate of two spots in Code S. 2 ESF vs 2 Kespa.
On August 07 2013 15:44 opterown wrote: [quote] [quote] [quote] [quote] [quote] [quote] [quote] [quote] like literally your last ten posts
lol bitter much? hows your thousand one liners about Prime different?
you don't root for kespa or esf unless your intention is to bait(especially when people find it a very touchy subject), rooting for teams is different.
lol so not true, i like the bw pros so i basically root for all kespa players with minimal baiting
you bait plenty, although it's a bit better of late, but yeah there are true kespa fans who like kespa rather than elitist idiots
There would barely be any baiting discussion if you didn`t drag it up every 2nd thread where someone posts the word kespa
It's painfully obvious that poisui's a baiter. Baiting != cheering for Kespa. Baiting = implying or outright saying that Kespa players are all better than everyone else, which is what annoys everybody because it's so obviously untrue.
What's so bad about baiting anyway? Definitely better than bashing, and some of those "fuck u some player" comments.
It promotes vitriol in the forums and is completely unnessassary. Its trolling, and trolling isnt cool.
I find it pretty funny now since it's been going on for so long
edgeOut once called me a coward though, it hurt my internet feelings
hey, that broke TL commandment #6 yo. shoulda snapped him for it
On August 07 2013 15:52 DigitalDevil wrote: Wait, why is the last game between Bang and soO not played? If Bang wins, wouldn't it mean a 3 way tie between Life, Byun, and soO? Why is soO getting a bye just because Bang is already out?
soO beat both Life and ByuN, so he advances.
That's unfair. He basically got an advantage due to the order of the matches played. He only played 3 matches and lost 1 and could have potentially lost another one, just like Life and Byun. You could say that Life beat herO, who beat soO. And soO could have potentially lost to Bang who lost to Life and Byun. It's a rock paper scissors scenario. You can't say that rock is superior to paper because it beats scissors, which beats paper.
If soO wins, he is through
If soO loses, he is tied, but wins the first tiebreaker, which is head-to-head record with those tied with him. Other results don't matter in weighing this tiebreaker.
It's not unfair. Head-to-head is a legitimate tiebreaker since he beat both the two involved in the tie.
soO's losses before the tiebreaker give him an advantage because they were to other people, whom Life and Byun may have beaten. They all lost 2 games, which should all be weighted equally.
The order is drawn randomly, so you can't blame it on that. The results are what they are and players shouldn't blame it on the luck of the draw. Because if you start that line of thinking, might as well blame "unfavorable maps" which are also semi-random. You can't go x > y > z to gauge the tied players including their games against other players, because it doesn't make sense and will always be tied. There are also no mapscores since this is Bo1.
Head-to-head between tied players is the fairest first tiebreaker.
soO beat both Life and ByuN. You can't just throw that away.
You could do a tiebreaker with soO up 2-0, ByuN 1-1 and Life 0-2 and make it a race to 3 wins. But that is excessively complicated.
You also can't throw away Life and Byun's wins. If they were all 2-2, surely the fairest system would be first to win 2 consecutive games.
On August 07 2013 17:00 BrassMonkey27 wrote: Had byun won that game he would have advanced along with Life because of the head-to-head tiebreakers. One game decided the fate of two spots in Code S. 2 ESF vs 2 Kespa.
If ByuN had won and soO wins his game ByuN and soO would have advanced. If ByuN had won and Bang as well, it would have been a 3 way tie between soO herO and Life since soO > Life herO > soO Life > herO
On August 07 2013 15:47 Arceus wrote: [quote] lol bitter much? hows your thousand one liners about Prime different?
you don't root for kespa or esf unless your intention is to bait(especially when people find it a very touchy subject), rooting for teams is different.
lol so not true, i like the bw pros so i basically root for all kespa players with minimal baiting
you bait plenty, although it's a bit better of late, but yeah there are true kespa fans who like kespa rather than elitist idiots
There would barely be any baiting discussion if you didn`t drag it up every 2nd thread where someone posts the word kespa
It's painfully obvious that poisui's a baiter. Baiting != cheering for Kespa. Baiting = implying or outright saying that Kespa players are all better than everyone else, which is what annoys everybody because it's so obviously untrue.
What's so bad about baiting anyway? Definitely better than bashing, and some of those "fuck u some player" comments.
It promotes vitriol in the forums and is completely unnessassary. Its trolling, and trolling isnt cool.
I find it pretty funny now since it's been going on for so long
edgeOut once called me a coward though, it hurt my internet feelings
hey, that broke TL commandment #6 yo. shoulda snapped him for it
He was just jealous of my witty retorts and clever humor so it was probably out of frustration so I forgive him.
On August 07 2013 15:52 DigitalDevil wrote: Wait, why is the last game between Bang and soO not played? If Bang wins, wouldn't it mean a 3 way tie between Life, Byun, and soO? Why is soO getting a bye just because Bang is already out?
soO beat both Life and ByuN, so he advances.
That's unfair. He basically got an advantage due to the order of the matches played. He only played 3 matches and lost 1 and could have potentially lost another one, just like Life and Byun. You could say that Life beat herO, who beat soO. And soO could have potentially lost to Bang who lost to Life and Byun. It's a rock paper scissors scenario. You can't say that rock is superior to paper because it beats scissors, which beats paper.
If soO wins, he is through
If soO loses, he is tied, but wins the first tiebreaker, which is head-to-head record with those tied with him. Other results don't matter in weighing this tiebreaker.
It's not unfair. Head-to-head is a legitimate tiebreaker since he beat both the two involved in the tie.
soO's losses before the tiebreaker give him an advantage because they were to other people, whom Life and Byun may have beaten. They all lost 2 games, which should all be weighted equally.
The order is drawn randomly, so you can't blame it on that. The results are what they are and players shouldn't blame it on the luck of the draw. Because if you start that line of thinking, might as well blame "unfavorable maps" which are also semi-random. You can't go x > y > z to gauge the tied players including their games against other players, because it doesn't make sense and will always be tied. There are also no mapscores since this is Bo1.
Head-to-head between tied players is the fairest first tiebreaker.
soO beat both Life and ByuN. You can't just throw that away.
You could do a tiebreaker with soO up 2-0, ByuN 1-1 and Life 0-2 and make it a race to 3 wins. But that is excessively complicated.
You also can't throw away Life and Byun's wins. If they were all 2-2, surely the fairest system would be first to win 2 consecutive games.
soO won against the two players he tied with. Having to beat them a second time, when the other players only have to beat him once, isn't fair either.
On August 07 2013 16:49 sc2holar wrote: Has anyone read an interview with Life post HoTS or something where he explains why he seems to struggle so much? he was looking like the next Bonjwa during the last days of WoL...
HoTS changes a lot of strategies and Life's style is no longer strong. Not just Life, it happens to many of the top WoL players.
i guess you are right, but i always thought players of that caliber were capable of adapting. i mean some kespa like players like Bogus could go directly from BW into HoTS and start dominating, changing your style from WoL to fit HoTS shouldnt be THAT hard for a top-tier player, especially in comparison to the BW>HoTS switch.
On August 07 2013 16:49 sc2holar wrote: Has anyone read an interview with Life post HoTS or something where he explains why he seems to struggle so much? he was looking like the next Bonjwa during the last days of WoL...
HoTS changes a lot of strategies and Life's style is no longer strong. Not just Life, it happens to many of the top WoL players.
i guess you are right, but i always thought players of that caliber were capable of adapting. i mean some kespa like players like Bogus could go directly from BW into HoTS and start dominating, changing your style from WoL to fit HoTS shouldnt be THAT hard for a top-tier player, especially in comparison to the BW>HoTS switch.
keyword is some - some kespa players transitioned well, some didn't. same for wol -> hots i guess. most transitioned pretty well, some didn't. and some of it is just natural cycle of falling off or whatever too.
On August 07 2013 16:49 sc2holar wrote: Has anyone read an interview with Life post HoTS or something where he explains why he seems to struggle so much? he was looking like the next Bonjwa during the last days of WoL...
HoTS changes a lot of strategies and Life's style is no longer strong. Not just Life, it happens to many of the top WoL players.
i guess you are right, but i always thought players of that caliber were capable of adapting. i mean some kespa like players like Bogus could go directly from BW into HoTS and start dominating, changing your style from WoL to fit HoTS shouldnt be THAT hard for a top-tier player, especially in comparison to the BW>HoTS switch.
Kespa didn't go directly from BW to HotS. They've been playing WoL since May of 2012.
Some of the players who did well in WoL aren't doing that well in HotS (RorO, herO, Flying, etc). Some players who did bad in WoL are doing well in HotS (Classic, Bisu, Trap, etc)
On August 07 2013 16:49 sc2holar wrote: Has anyone read an interview with Life post HoTS or something where he explains why he seems to struggle so much? he was looking like the next Bonjwa during the last days of WoL...
HoTS changes a lot of strategies and Life's style is no longer strong. Not just Life, it happens to many of the top WoL players.
i guess you are right, but i always thought players of that caliber were capable of adapting. i mean some kespa like players like Bogus could go directly from BW into HoTS and start dominating, changing your style from WoL to fit HoTS shouldnt be THAT hard for a top-tier player, especially in comparison to the BW>HoTS switch.
Life actually did go from WoL to HotS and dominate initially, he won MLG and qualified for the Asian Indoor Tournament (kicking Flash's ass twice).
No, I think there's something else wrong with Life.
On August 07 2013 16:49 sc2holar wrote: Has anyone read an interview with Life post HoTS or something where he explains why he seems to struggle so much? he was looking like the next Bonjwa during the last days of WoL...
HoTS changes a lot of strategies and Life's style is no longer strong. Not just Life, it happens to many of the top WoL players.
i guess you are right, but i always thought players of that caliber were capable of adapting. i mean some kespa like players like Bogus could go directly from BW into HoTS and start dominating, changing your style from WoL to fit HoTS shouldnt be THAT hard for a top-tier player, especially in comparison to the BW>HoTS switch.
Life actually did go from WoL to HotS and dominate initially, he won MLG and qualified for the Asian Indoor Tournament (kicking Flash's ass twice).
No, I think there's something else wrong with Life.
On August 07 2013 16:49 sc2holar wrote: Has anyone read an interview with Life post HoTS or something where he explains why he seems to struggle so much? he was looking like the next Bonjwa during the last days of WoL...
HoTS changes a lot of strategies and Life's style is no longer strong. Not just Life, it happens to many of the top WoL players.
i guess you are right, but i always thought players of that caliber were capable of adapting. i mean some kespa like players like Bogus could go directly from BW into HoTS and start dominating, changing your style from WoL to fit HoTS shouldnt be THAT hard for a top-tier player, especially in comparison to the BW>HoTS switch.
Life actually did go from WoL to HotS and dominate initially, he won MLG and qualified for the Asian Indoor Tournament (kicking Flash's ass twice).
No, I think there's something else wrong with Life.
Life fans will disagree but it is because everyone has caught up with his mechanics. During his reign he had the best mechanics and micro out of any zerg player. His zergling baneling micro was unparalleled. He was strategically naive doing whatever he wanted but he made it work because of his superior control. Now that everyone has caught up, he can't get by on his mechanics alone. He's playing the same way while everyone has improved.
Another reason could be that given how fast he rose to prominence, he got overconfident and failed to recognize the need to adapt before it was too late and most players were already ahead in terms of adapting to the expansion. Add the fact that we now have lots of Kespa players who can Rival his mechanical prowess.
His playstyle is still very WoL-esque, he has not changed much since his first GSL victory.
On August 07 2013 16:49 sc2holar wrote: Has anyone read an interview with Life post HoTS or something where he explains why he seems to struggle so much? he was looking like the next Bonjwa during the last days of WoL...
HoTS changes a lot of strategies and Life's style is no longer strong. Not just Life, it happens to many of the top WoL players.
i guess you are right, but i always thought players of that caliber were capable of adapting. i mean some kespa like players like Bogus could go directly from BW into HoTS and start dominating, changing your style from WoL to fit HoTS shouldnt be THAT hard for a top-tier player, especially in comparison to the BW>HoTS switch.
Life actually did go from WoL to HotS and dominate initially, he won MLG and qualified for the Asian Indoor Tournament (kicking Flash's ass twice).
No, I think there's something else wrong with Life.
Life fans will disagree but it is because everyone has caught up with his mechanics. During his reign he had the best mechanics and micro out of any zerg player. His zergling baneling micro was unparalleled. He was strategically naive doing whatever he wanted but he made it work because of his superior control. Now that everyone has caught up, he can't get by on his mechanics alone. He's playing the same way while everyone has improved.
On August 07 2013 15:52 DigitalDevil wrote: Wait, why is the last game between Bang and soO not played? If Bang wins, wouldn't it mean a 3 way tie between Life, Byun, and soO? Why is soO getting a bye just because Bang is already out?
soO beat both Life and ByuN, so he advances.
That's unfair. He basically got an advantage due to the order of the matches played. He only played 3 matches and lost 1 and could have potentially lost another one, just like Life and Byun. You could say that Life beat herO, who beat soO. And soO could have potentially lost to Bang who lost to Life and Byun. It's a rock paper scissors scenario. You can't say that rock is superior to paper because it beats scissors, which beats paper.
If soO wins, he is through
If soO loses, he is tied, but wins the first tiebreaker, which is head-to-head record with those tied with him. Other results don't matter in weighing this tiebreaker.
It's not unfair. Head-to-head is a legitimate tiebreaker since he beat both the two involved in the tie.
soO's losses before the tiebreaker give him an advantage because they were to other people, whom Life and Byun may have beaten. They all lost 2 games, which should all be weighted equally.
The order is drawn randomly, so you can't blame it on that. The results are what they are and players shouldn't blame it on the luck of the draw. Because if you start that line of thinking, might as well blame "unfavorable maps" which are also semi-random. You can't go x > y > z to gauge the tied players including their games against other players, because it doesn't make sense and will always be tied. There are also no mapscores since this is Bo1.
Head-to-head between tied players is the fairest first tiebreaker.
soO beat both Life and ByuN. You can't just throw that away.
You could do a tiebreaker with soO up 2-0, ByuN 1-1 and Life 0-2 and make it a race to 3 wins. But that is excessively complicated.
You also can't throw away Life and Byun's wins. If they were all 2-2, surely the fairest system would be first to win 2 consecutive games.
soO won against the two players he tied with. Having to beat them a second time, when the other players only have to beat him once, isn't fair either.
If you consider it like that, then you can also for example say that it is unfair for Life and Byun to not have their win against Bang count against soO if soO had lost to Bang. As you said earlier, you cannot apply transitivity to determine the better player. Therefore, you can only count on how many times they won/lost. In this case, they are all 2-2 and so their scores should reset to 0-0 for the tiebreaker.
On August 07 2013 15:52 DigitalDevil wrote: Wait, why is the last game between Bang and soO not played? If Bang wins, wouldn't it mean a 3 way tie between Life, Byun, and soO? Why is soO getting a bye just because Bang is already out?
soO beat both Life and ByuN, so he advances.
That's unfair. He basically got an advantage due to the order of the matches played. He only played 3 matches and lost 1 and could have potentially lost another one, just like Life and Byun. You could say that Life beat herO, who beat soO. And soO could have potentially lost to Bang who lost to Life and Byun. It's a rock paper scissors scenario. You can't say that rock is superior to paper because it beats scissors, which beats paper.
If soO wins, he is through
If soO loses, he is tied, but wins the first tiebreaker, which is head-to-head record with those tied with him. Other results don't matter in weighing this tiebreaker.
It's not unfair. Head-to-head is a legitimate tiebreaker since he beat both the two involved in the tie.
soO's losses before the tiebreaker give him an advantage because they were to other people, whom Life and Byun may have beaten. They all lost 2 games, which should all be weighted equally.
The order is drawn randomly, so you can't blame it on that. The results are what they are and players shouldn't blame it on the luck of the draw. Because if you start that line of thinking, might as well blame "unfavorable maps" which are also semi-random. You can't go x > y > z to gauge the tied players including their games against other players, because it doesn't make sense and will always be tied. There are also no mapscores since this is Bo1.
Head-to-head between tied players is the fairest first tiebreaker.
soO beat both Life and ByuN. You can't just throw that away.
You could do a tiebreaker with soO up 2-0, ByuN 1-1 and Life 0-2 and make it a race to 3 wins. But that is excessively complicated.
You also can't throw away Life and Byun's wins. If they were all 2-2, surely the fairest system would be first to win 2 consecutive games.
soO won against the two players he tied with. Having to beat them a second time, when the other players only have to beat him once, isn't fair either.
If you consider it like that, then you can also for example say that it is unfair for Life and Byun to not have their win against Bang count against soO if soO had lost to Bang. As you said earlier, you cannot apply transitivity to determine the better player. Therefore, you can only count on how many times they won/lost. In this case, they are all 2-2 and so their scores should reset to 0-0 for the tiebreaker.
If you're not going to isolate the results of the three players tied, then why require them to only play amongst themselves? If the group is reduced to the three tied players, since the other player is effectively 'meaningless', then why should the results between those tied players not matter more than their results against the rest of the group, since the tiebreakers were made to compare the three directly with each other?
The system effectively reduces the need to play excessive games, when soO has already gone 2-0, ByuN 1 - 1 and Life 0 - 2 in the games that are just going to be replayed the same way.
You see, we are never going to come up with a 'perfectly fair' system when you also have to take into consideration time and resource constraints.
Bo1 is unfair
Random maps is unfair
Etc etc is unfair
Only Bo7 Round Robin ensures the best player gets out.
But their time and resources are limited, and they have to have tiebreakers that are fair enough considering those constraints.
On August 07 2013 15:52 DigitalDevil wrote: Wait, why is the last game between Bang and soO not played? If Bang wins, wouldn't it mean a 3 way tie between Life, Byun, and soO? Why is soO getting a bye just because Bang is already out?
soO beat both Life and ByuN, so he advances.
That's unfair. He basically got an advantage due to the order of the matches played. He only played 3 matches and lost 1 and could have potentially lost another one, just like Life and Byun. You could say that Life beat herO, who beat soO. And soO could have potentially lost to Bang who lost to Life and Byun. It's a rock paper scissors scenario. You can't say that rock is superior to paper because it beats scissors, which beats paper.
If soO wins, he is through
If soO loses, he is tied, but wins the first tiebreaker, which is head-to-head record with those tied with him. Other results don't matter in weighing this tiebreaker.
It's not unfair. Head-to-head is a legitimate tiebreaker since he beat both the two involved in the tie.
soO's losses before the tiebreaker give him an advantage because they were to other people, whom Life and Byun may have beaten. They all lost 2 games, which should all be weighted equally.
The order is drawn randomly, so you can't blame it on that. The results are what they are and players shouldn't blame it on the luck of the draw. Because if you start that line of thinking, might as well blame "unfavorable maps" which are also semi-random. You can't go x > y > z to gauge the tied players including their games against other players, because it doesn't make sense and will always be tied. There are also no mapscores since this is Bo1.
Head-to-head between tied players is the fairest first tiebreaker.
soO beat both Life and ByuN. You can't just throw that away.
You could do a tiebreaker with soO up 2-0, ByuN 1-1 and Life 0-2 and make it a race to 3 wins. But that is excessively complicated.
You also can't throw away Life and Byun's wins. If they were all 2-2, surely the fairest system would be first to win 2 consecutive games.
soO won against the two players he tied with. Having to beat them a second time, when the other players only have to beat him once, isn't fair either.
If you consider it like that, then you can also for example say that it is unfair for Life and Byun to not have their win against Bang count against soO if soO had lost to Bang. As you said earlier, you cannot apply transitivity to determine the better player. Therefore, you can only count on how many times they won/lost. In this case, they are all 2-2 and so their scores should reset to 0-0 for the tiebreaker.
If you're not going to isolate the results of the three players tied, then why require them to only play amongst themselves? If the group is reduced to the three tied players, since the other player is effectively 'meaningless', then why should the results between those tied players not matter more than their results against the rest of the group, since the tiebreakers were made to compare the three directly with each other?
The system effectively reduces the need to play excessive games, when soO has already gone 2-0, ByuN 1 - 1 and Life 0 - 2 in the games that are just going to be replayed the same way.
Simply, they are playing amongst themselves simply because the other players have either already advanced from having enough wins or have already been eliminated from having too many losses. The results of the tied players against the other players still matter in terms of pure win loss ratio (they are all tied 2-2), not who they lost to.
You see, we are never going to come up with a 'perfectly fair' system when you also have to take into consideration time and resource constraints.
Bo1 is unfair
Random maps is unfair
Etc etc is unfair
Only Bo7 Round Robin ensures the best player gets out.
But their time and resources are limited, and they have to have tiebreakers that are fair enough considering those constraints.
I understand the purpose of the system to save time but I still disagree that it is fair.
Bo1 is not unfair. Random maps are not unfair. These create volatile results, not unfair results.
That's unfair. He basically got an advantage due to the order of the matches played. He only played 3 matches and lost 1 and could have potentially lost another one, just like Life and Byun. You could say that Life beat herO, who beat soO. And soO could have potentially lost to Bang who lost to Life and Byun. It's a rock paper scissors scenario. You can't say that rock is superior to paper because it beats scissors, which beats paper.
If soO wins, he is through
If soO loses, he is tied, but wins the first tiebreaker, which is head-to-head record with those tied with him. Other results don't matter in weighing this tiebreaker.
It's not unfair. Head-to-head is a legitimate tiebreaker since he beat both the two involved in the tie.
soO's losses before the tiebreaker give him an advantage because they were to other people, whom Life and Byun may have beaten. They all lost 2 games, which should all be weighted equally.
The order is drawn randomly, so you can't blame it on that. The results are what they are and players shouldn't blame it on the luck of the draw. Because if you start that line of thinking, might as well blame "unfavorable maps" which are also semi-random. You can't go x > y > z to gauge the tied players including their games against other players, because it doesn't make sense and will always be tied. There are also no mapscores since this is Bo1.
Head-to-head between tied players is the fairest first tiebreaker.
soO beat both Life and ByuN. You can't just throw that away.
You could do a tiebreaker with soO up 2-0, ByuN 1-1 and Life 0-2 and make it a race to 3 wins. But that is excessively complicated.
You also can't throw away Life and Byun's wins. If they were all 2-2, surely the fairest system would be first to win 2 consecutive games.
soO won against the two players he tied with. Having to beat them a second time, when the other players only have to beat him once, isn't fair either.
If you consider it like that, then you can also for example say that it is unfair for Life and Byun to not have their win against Bang count against soO if soO had lost to Bang. As you said earlier, you cannot apply transitivity to determine the better player. Therefore, you can only count on how many times they won/lost. In this case, they are all 2-2 and so their scores should reset to 0-0 for the tiebreaker.
If you're not going to isolate the results of the three players tied, then why require them to only play amongst themselves? If the group is reduced to the three tied players, since the other player is effectively 'meaningless', then why should the results between those tied players not matter more than their results against the rest of the group, since the tiebreakers were made to compare the three directly with each other?
The system effectively reduces the need to play excessive games, when soO has already gone 2-0, ByuN 1 - 1 and Life 0 - 2 in the games that are just going to be replayed the same way.
Simply, they are playing amongst themselves simply because the other players have either already advanced from having enough wins or have already been eliminated from having too many losses. The results of the tied players against the other players still matter in terms of pure win loss ratio (they are all tied 2-2), not who they lost to.
You see, we are never going to come up with a 'perfectly fair' system when you also have to take into consideration time and resource constraints.
Bo1 is unfair
Random maps is unfair
Etc etc is unfair
Only Bo7 Round Robin ensures the best player gets out.
But their time and resources are limited, and they have to have tiebreakers that are fair enough considering those constraints.
I understand the purpose of the system to save time but I still disagree that it is fair.
Bo1 is not unfair. Random maps are not unfair. These create volatile results, not unfair results.
But they've already played against each other. Why should they replay it? They advanced to tiebreakers because of their results with the entire group, but the tiebreakers are played to determine who can gain 2 wins from the other 2 players. soO already has 2 wins against them.
Anyway, this has already been debated to death many many times.
If you refuse to accept it as fair, then you should email GOMtv and tell them your concerns.
On August 07 2013 15:59 DigitalDevil wrote: [quote]
That's unfair. He basically got an advantage due to the order of the matches played. He only played 3 matches and lost 1 and could have potentially lost another one, just like Life and Byun. You could say that Life beat herO, who beat soO. And soO could have potentially lost to Bang who lost to Life and Byun. It's a rock paper scissors scenario. You can't say that rock is superior to paper because it beats scissors, which beats paper.
If soO wins, he is through
If soO loses, he is tied, but wins the first tiebreaker, which is head-to-head record with those tied with him. Other results don't matter in weighing this tiebreaker.
It's not unfair. Head-to-head is a legitimate tiebreaker since he beat both the two involved in the tie.
soO's losses before the tiebreaker give him an advantage because they were to other people, whom Life and Byun may have beaten. They all lost 2 games, which should all be weighted equally.
The order is drawn randomly, so you can't blame it on that. The results are what they are and players shouldn't blame it on the luck of the draw. Because if you start that line of thinking, might as well blame "unfavorable maps" which are also semi-random. You can't go x > y > z to gauge the tied players including their games against other players, because it doesn't make sense and will always be tied. There are also no mapscores since this is Bo1.
Head-to-head between tied players is the fairest first tiebreaker.
soO beat both Life and ByuN. You can't just throw that away.
You could do a tiebreaker with soO up 2-0, ByuN 1-1 and Life 0-2 and make it a race to 3 wins. But that is excessively complicated.
You also can't throw away Life and Byun's wins. If they were all 2-2, surely the fairest system would be first to win 2 consecutive games.
soO won against the two players he tied with. Having to beat them a second time, when the other players only have to beat him once, isn't fair either.
If you consider it like that, then you can also for example say that it is unfair for Life and Byun to not have their win against Bang count against soO if soO had lost to Bang. As you said earlier, you cannot apply transitivity to determine the better player. Therefore, you can only count on how many times they won/lost. In this case, they are all 2-2 and so their scores should reset to 0-0 for the tiebreaker.
If you're not going to isolate the results of the three players tied, then why require them to only play amongst themselves? If the group is reduced to the three tied players, since the other player is effectively 'meaningless', then why should the results between those tied players not matter more than their results against the rest of the group, since the tiebreakers were made to compare the three directly with each other?
The system effectively reduces the need to play excessive games, when soO has already gone 2-0, ByuN 1 - 1 and Life 0 - 2 in the games that are just going to be replayed the same way.
Simply, they are playing amongst themselves simply because the other players have either already advanced from having enough wins or have already been eliminated from having too many losses. The results of the tied players against the other players still matter in terms of pure win loss ratio (they are all tied 2-2), not who they lost to.
You see, we are never going to come up with a 'perfectly fair' system when you also have to take into consideration time and resource constraints.
Bo1 is unfair
Random maps is unfair
Etc etc is unfair
Only Bo7 Round Robin ensures the best player gets out.
But their time and resources are limited, and they have to have tiebreakers that are fair enough considering those constraints.
I understand the purpose of the system to save time but I still disagree that it is fair.
Bo1 is not unfair. Random maps are not unfair. These create volatile results, not unfair results.
But they've already played against each other. Why should they replay it? They advanced to tiebreakers because of their results with the entire group, but the tiebreakers are played to determine who can gain 2 wins from the other 2 players. soO already has 2 wins against them.
Anyway, this has already been debated to death many many times.
If you refuse to accept it as fair, then you should email GOMtv and tell them your concerns.
As I've said, they have to replay each other because that is the only way to defeat the rock beats paper beats scissors beats rock argument. You're saying that even though soO is in a tiebreaker with Life and Byun that he is better than them because he beat them before. I am saying you cannot determine whether soO is better or not because he would have lost to Bang who was beaten by both Life and Byun. Therefore, the logical course of action would be to restart the tiebreaker at 0-0 and have the better player be determined by winning twice consecutively.
I'm not so attached to the issue that I'd contact gomtv about it. Was just wondering why they are doing it this way.
yeah there was this big fuss too when flash didn't make it lol, always happens in u/d tiebreakers. i'm not happy byun is out, but the rules are the rules and the players knew the system beforehand, so nothing they can complain about if those rules are upheld
On August 07 2013 17:58 opterown wrote: yeah there was this big fuss too when flash didn't make it lol, always happens in u/d tiebreakers. i'm not happy byun is out, but the rules are the rules and the players knew the system beforehand, so nothing they can complain about if those rules are upheld
I agree that it is fair in the sense that the players agreed to the rules. Also, the fact that it was a random drawing means that it is by definition fair. I don't really care who would have come out of this but I'm just annoyed that the system itself leaves some unanswered possibilities,
The rules are supposed to be harsh since only the best of the best are supposed to get into Code S. What is debatable however is if it should be determined by a series of Bo1s.
On August 07 2013 16:49 sc2holar wrote: Has anyone read an interview with Life post HoTS or something where he explains why he seems to struggle so much? he was looking like the next Bonjwa during the last days of WoL...
HoTS changes a lot of strategies and Life's style is no longer strong. Not just Life, it happens to many of the top WoL players.
i guess you are right, but i always thought players of that caliber were capable of adapting. i mean some kespa like players like Bogus could go directly from BW into HoTS and start dominating, changing your style from WoL to fit HoTS shouldnt be THAT hard for a top-tier player, especially in comparison to the BW>HoTS switch.
Life actually did go from WoL to HotS and dominate initially, he won MLG and qualified for the Asian Indoor Tournament (kicking Flash's ass twice).
No, I think there's something else wrong with Life.
Life fans will disagree but it is because everyone has caught up with his mechanics. During his reign he had the best mechanics and micro out of any zerg player. His zergling baneling micro was unparalleled. He was strategically naive doing whatever he wanted but he made it work because of his superior control. Now that everyone has caught up, he can't get by on his mechanics alone. He's playing the same way while everyone has improved.
I actually don't agree with that so much, though his micro was unquestionably better then every other zergs.
To me Life was always about great decisionmaking and executing exactly what he wanted to do. His ZvT revolved a lot around exploiting weaknesses at certain stages in the game for example.
On August 07 2013 18:23 DarkLordOlli wrote: To me Life was always about great decisionmaking and executing exactly what he wanted to do. His ZvT revolved a lot around exploiting weaknesses at certain stages in the game for example.
Life gave meth to his lings instead of crack. Unfortunetaly meth's side affects come into play a lot faster, and thus he can't keep going anymore.
On August 07 2013 16:49 sc2holar wrote: Has anyone read an interview with Life post HoTS or something where he explains why he seems to struggle so much? he was looking like the next Bonjwa during the last days of WoL...
HoTS changes a lot of strategies and Life's style is no longer strong. Not just Life, it happens to many of the top WoL players.
i guess you are right, but i always thought players of that caliber were capable of adapting. i mean some kespa like players like Bogus could go directly from BW into HoTS and start dominating, changing your style from WoL to fit HoTS shouldnt be THAT hard for a top-tier player, especially in comparison to the BW>HoTS switch.
Life actually did go from WoL to HotS and dominate initially, he won MLG and qualified for the Asian Indoor Tournament (kicking Flash's ass twice).
No, I think there's something else wrong with Life.
Life fans will disagree but it is because everyone has caught up with his mechanics. During his reign he had the best mechanics and micro out of any zerg player. His zergling baneling micro was unparalleled. He was strategically naive doing whatever he wanted but he made it work because of his superior control. Now that everyone has caught up, he can't get by on his mechanics alone. He's playing the same way while everyone has improved.
I actually don't agree with that so much, though his micro was unquestionably better then every other zergs.
Well, you also have DRG rocking like 350+ APM (scgears says 400+lul) It's not as if only mechanics get you anywhere really. The differences between top Koreans in mechanics aren't THAT big really, if one would be truly inferior in terms of decision making he'd not dominate at all, even with superior mechanics
Sadly Bisu is the best example of that. His raw mechanics are only rivaled by people like Jaedong and Flash, his multitasking arguably by nobody but his decisionmaking is lagging waaaaay behind in sc2
On August 07 2013 18:31 DarkLordOlli wrote: Sadly Bisu is the best example of that. His raw mechanics are only rivaled by people like Jaedong and Flash, his multitasking arguably by nobody but his decisionmaking is lagging waaaaay behind in sc2
That's really only in bw, you compare the eapms of those three with some of the players in sc2 and it's suddenly less common then only 3. Still fucking uncommon though.
On August 07 2013 18:49 RiZu wrote: FCK YEA herO! CJ might actually have a player that won't disappoint in Code S now =( Effort T_T.
CJ instantly becomes a much better team with Coach park join within just weeks. They are breaking through in every fronts of Korean tournaments. Probably due to his skill of making players relax, both songduri and Hero said team atmosphere is much better right now after coach came.
On August 07 2013 18:49 RiZu wrote: FCK YEA herO! CJ might actually have a player that won't disappoint in Code S now =( Effort T_T.
CJ instantly becomes a much better team with Coach park join within just weeks. They are breaking through in every fronts of Korean tournaments. Probably due to his skill of making players relax, both songduri and Hero said team atmosphere is much better right now after coach came.
I'll give it to Coach Park if he could somehow get Leta back in the lineups.
On August 07 2013 16:49 sc2holar wrote: Has anyone read an interview with Life post HoTS or something where he explains why he seems to struggle so much? he was looking like the next Bonjwa during the last days of WoL...
HoTS changes a lot of strategies and Life's style is no longer strong. Not just Life, it happens to many of the top WoL players.
i guess you are right, but i always thought players of that caliber were capable of adapting. i mean some kespa like players like Bogus could go directly from BW into HoTS and start dominating, changing your style from WoL to fit HoTS shouldnt be THAT hard for a top-tier player, especially in comparison to the BW>HoTS switch.
Life actually did go from WoL to HotS and dominate initially, he won MLG and qualified for the Asian Indoor Tournament (kicking Flash's ass twice).
No, I think there's something else wrong with Life.
Life fans will disagree but it is because everyone has caught up with his mechanics. During his reign he had the best mechanics and micro out of any zerg player. His zergling baneling micro was unparalleled. He was strategically naive doing whatever he wanted but he made it work because of his superior control. Now that everyone has caught up, he can't get by on his mechanics alone. He's playing the same way while everyone has improved.
Uh, I haven't seen too many Life games lately, but I definitely disagree with this. Life was brutally good because his playstyle was deadly in WoL and in early HotS. But these days you cannot play this aggressive gameplay anymore and then fall back on infestors to hold your ground. If you lose an attack or just waste units too much, the counter kills the zerg in HotS. That's why the best Zergs in the world are all playing very turtly styles (with Build order attacks instead of searching for openings). And Life simply didn't adapted to that for a long time.
On August 07 2013 18:49 RiZu wrote: FCK YEA herO! CJ might actually have a player that won't disappoint in Code S now =( Effort T_T.
CJ instantly becomes a much better team with Coach park join within just weeks. They are breaking through in every fronts of Korean tournaments. Probably due to his skill of making players relax, both songduri and Hero said team atmosphere is much better right now after coach came.
I'll give it to Coach Park if he could somehow get Leta back in the lineups.
Leta will be back. He will achieve greatness. (I so hope this... I want to be able to watch him, SSL or WCS.. same shit. If he finds Brood War to be his game, that is fine ^_^)
edit: Life... you have fallen since spores got buffed...
Regarding Life's ZvP and ZvT, we can argue that his style just does not suit the current metagame. But his inability to adjust IS a sign of strategic naivete. He thinks he can still make it work but with Mamacore and mines early game Zerg aggression needs to be more well planned and timed. In WoL he was fortunate that his style worked but anyone who thinks it was a stroke of genius rather than good fortune in the metagane and superior mechanics that made him successful is in denial.
Look at his ZvZ. ZvZ has only slightly changed, the least of any matchup. He struggled to beat Scarlett 2-3 and looked worse i n that series with poor decision making and odd tactical moves. It was the same in his games against soO and hyvaa. Can't blame that on the game. People caught up to Life and he doesn't know how to adjust. Strategic naivete.
But there is no denying that Life in his prime had unrivaled Zerg Micro and Positioning. His aggressive style worked out so well because he was able to squeeze out so much bang for the buck out of every unit due his micro and battle awareness, but it was only a matter of time until other Zerg players caught up learned to micro just as well. Zerg Micro was never that hard after all, but it took a while until the majority realized that you can actually focus fire and use ling dancing to contain your opponant.
On August 07 2013 19:13 lichter wrote: Regarding Life's ZvP and ZvT, we can argue that his style just does not suit the current metagame. But his inability to adjust IS a sign of strategic naivete. He thinks he can still make it work but with Mamacore and mines early game Zerg aggression needs to be more well planned and timed. In WoL he was fortunate that his style worked but anyone who thinks it was a stroke of genius rather than good fortune in the metagane and superior mechanics that made him successful is in denial.
Look at his ZvZ. ZvZ has only slightly changed, the least of any matchup. He struggled to beat Scarlett 2-3 and looked worse i n that series with poor decision making and odd tactical moves. It was the same in his games against soO and hyvaa. Can't blame that on the game. People caught up to Life and he doesn't know how to adjust. Strategic naivete.
I just think that life showed that focussing on micro as a zerg wasn't a waste of time, while mechanical monsters ala losira and drg simply overwhelmed there opponents, never really took damage from drops, and had better macro then everyone else. Drg was more successful then other people because his micro was above average and combined with his mechanics he was simply the best zerg on the planet.
Life though, had mediocre injects and creep spread and multi tasking relative to some other zergs, and instead blew everyone out of the water with his ling aggression and micro/muta micro back when people were playing scared of zerg, and it allowed him to get away with things other zergs just couldn't do.
Seriously think that jaedong is going to show the way again with better micro and macro and multi tasking then any other zerg, and win this terran and protoss heavy wcs. /fanboy off.
Life was one of the first zergs to control packs of lings when attacking a bio ball, attacking in waves than as a cone. He would separate groups of lings to attack different groups of bio instead of allowing all his units to aggro towards the front line. It made his lings soooo much more effective.
He was brilliant in that way. But strategically he is weak.
On August 07 2013 19:13 lichter wrote: Regarding Life's ZvP and ZvT, we can argue that his style just does not suit the current metagame. But his inability to adjust IS a sign of strategic naivete. He thinks he can still make it work but with Mamacore and mines early game Zerg aggression needs to be more well planned and timed. In WoL he was fortunate that his style worked but anyone who thinks it was a stroke of genius rather than good fortune in the metagane and superior mechanics that made him successful is in denial.
Look at his ZvZ. ZvZ has only slightly changed, the least of any matchup. He struggled to beat Scarlett 2-3 and looked worse i n that series with poor decision making and odd tactical moves. It was the same in his games against soO and hyvaa. Can't blame that on the game. People caught up to Life and he doesn't know how to adjust. Strategic naivete.
That's not true. In WoL ZvZ you could do all sorts of stuff and then... fall back on infestors and sit behind a choke point, as infestors were a valuable ressource. Something that you can't do in HotS, where it is much more of a numbers game in ZvZ. You have enough roaches or mutas or whatever, or you don't. There is nothing to hold ground anymore apart from pure numbers which plays in the cards of a defensively macroing player or a plainly allinning one, over one that tries to force engagements and mechanically outmicro/outmultitask his opponent.
And yeah, it's strategic naivete. But I don't think his problem is that other people caught up in mechanics.
In Hybrid PL Jaedong was one of the first zergs to shift queue fungal-burrow-escape. It filled me with awe. I dunno why he suddenly stagnated after impressing so much early on. Hopefully he gets back into form.
On August 07 2013 19:31 lichter wrote: In Hybrid PL Jaedong was one of the first zergs to shift queue fungal-burrow-escape. It filled me with awe. I dunno why he suddenly stagnated after impressing so much early on. Hopefully he gets back into form.
He said in an interview that he stopped practicing, and in that same interview he said he started practicing again, both of which seem to be true by his rate of progress.
On August 07 2013 18:49 RiZu wrote: FCK YEA herO! CJ might actually have a player that won't disappoint in Code S now =( Effort T_T.
CJ instantly becomes a much better team with Coach park join within just weeks. They are breaking through in every fronts of Korean tournaments. Probably due to his skill of making players relax, both songduri and Hero said team atmosphere is much better right now after coach came.
You got any link too those interviews? realy curious. Now only effOrt needs to get back in!
On August 07 2013 16:49 sc2holar wrote: Has anyone read an interview with Life post HoTS or something where he explains why he seems to struggle so much? he was looking like the next Bonjwa during the last days of WoL...
HoTS changes a lot of strategies and Life's style is no longer strong. Not just Life, it happens to many of the top WoL players.
i guess you are right, but i always thought players of that caliber were capable of adapting. i mean some kespa like players like Bogus could go directly from BW into HoTS and start dominating, changing your style from WoL to fit HoTS shouldnt be THAT hard for a top-tier player, especially in comparison to the BW>HoTS switch.
Life actually did go from WoL to HotS and dominate initially, he won MLG and qualified for the Asian Indoor Tournament (kicking Flash's ass twice).
No, I think there's something else wrong with Life.
Life fans will disagree but it is because everyone has caught up with his mechanics. During his reign he had the best mechanics and micro out of any zerg player. His zergling baneling micro was unparalleled. He was strategically naive doing whatever he wanted but he made it work because of his superior control. Now that everyone has caught up, he can't get by on his mechanics alone. He's playing the same way while everyone has improved.
As a Life fan I disagree because you clearly don't understand why he was successful at all.
On August 07 2013 16:49 sc2holar wrote: Has anyone read an interview with Life post HoTS or something where he explains why he seems to struggle so much? he was looking like the next Bonjwa during the last days of WoL...
HoTS changes a lot of strategies and Life's style is no longer strong. Not just Life, it happens to many of the top WoL players.
i guess you are right, but i always thought players of that caliber were capable of adapting. i mean some kespa like players like Bogus could go directly from BW into HoTS and start dominating, changing your style from WoL to fit HoTS shouldnt be THAT hard for a top-tier player, especially in comparison to the BW>HoTS switch.
Life actually did go from WoL to HotS and dominate initially, he won MLG and qualified for the Asian Indoor Tournament (kicking Flash's ass twice).
No, I think there's something else wrong with Life.
Life fans will disagree but it is because everyone has caught up with his mechanics. During his reign he had the best mechanics and micro out of any zerg player. His zergling baneling micro was unparalleled. He was strategically naive doing whatever he wanted but he made it work because of his superior control. Now that everyone has caught up, he can't get by on his mechanics alone. He's playing the same way while everyone has improved.
As a Life fan I disagree because you clearly don't understand why he was successful at all.
On August 07 2013 16:49 sc2holar wrote: Has anyone read an interview with Life post HoTS or something where he explains why he seems to struggle so much? he was looking like the next Bonjwa during the last days of WoL...
HoTS changes a lot of strategies and Life's style is no longer strong. Not just Life, it happens to many of the top WoL players.
i guess you are right, but i always thought players of that caliber were capable of adapting. i mean some kespa like players like Bogus could go directly from BW into HoTS and start dominating, changing your style from WoL to fit HoTS shouldnt be THAT hard for a top-tier player, especially in comparison to the BW>HoTS switch.
Life actually did go from WoL to HotS and dominate initially, he won MLG and qualified for the Asian Indoor Tournament (kicking Flash's ass twice).
No, I think there's something else wrong with Life.
Life fans will disagree but it is because everyone has caught up with his mechanics. During his reign he had the best mechanics and micro out of any zerg player. His zergling baneling micro was unparalleled. He was strategically naive doing whatever he wanted but he made it work because of his superior control. Now that everyone has caught up, he can't get by on his mechanics alone. He's playing the same way while everyone has improved.
As a Life fan I disagree because you clearly don't understand why he was successful at all.
You should read the rest of the conversation
I did. Most of the conversation is simply wrong about the basic things from his attacks (which were always timing attacks based on upgrades and exploiting build orders) to his basis of his success (he was never mechanically superior to the likes of DRG and Losira, at best equal).
Tactically he was brilliant. Strategically he was never anything special. The only possible contributions he made to the metagame were a different upgrade path to ZvZ (which was never fleshed out after TSL4) and the use of drop play in ZvP to set up the late game army (also never fleshed out). Otherwise he simply adapted pre-existing builds and pushed them to their natural limits. He was also mediocre at broodlord-infestor play since it was slow and he's uncomfortable with using a slow army.
Everyone seems to have undergone collective amnesia and forgotten that Life's ZvZ was not good after 2 base mutalisk fell out of fashion post-summer 2012. From then until HotS he was relying on fundamentals to win. In that sense he never changed.
On August 07 2013 18:49 RiZu wrote: FCK YEA herO! CJ might actually have a player that won't disappoint in Code S now =( Effort T_T.
CJ instantly becomes a much better team with Coach park join within just weeks. They are breaking through in every fronts of Korean tournaments. Probably due to his skill of making players relax, both songduri and Hero said team atmosphere is much better right now after coach came.
You got any link too those interviews? realy curious. Now only effOrt needs to get back in!
Sorry, didn't read English interview, they are always too slow.
On August 07 2013 16:49 sc2holar wrote: Has anyone read an interview with Life post HoTS or something where he explains why he seems to struggle so much? he was looking like the next Bonjwa during the last days of WoL...
HoTS changes a lot of strategies and Life's style is no longer strong. Not just Life, it happens to many of the top WoL players.
i guess you are right, but i always thought players of that caliber were capable of adapting. i mean some kespa like players like Bogus could go directly from BW into HoTS and start dominating, changing your style from WoL to fit HoTS shouldnt be THAT hard for a top-tier player, especially in comparison to the BW>HoTS switch.
Life actually did go from WoL to HotS and dominate initially, he won MLG and qualified for the Asian Indoor Tournament (kicking Flash's ass twice).
No, I think there's something else wrong with Life.
Life fans will disagree but it is because everyone has caught up with his mechanics. During his reign he had the best mechanics and micro out of any zerg player. His zergling baneling micro was unparalleled. He was strategically naive doing whatever he wanted but he made it work because of his superior control. Now that everyone has caught up, he can't get by on his mechanics alone. He's playing the same way while everyone has improved.
As a Life fan I disagree because you clearly don't understand why he was successful at all.
You should read the rest of the conversation
I did. Most of the conversation is simply wrong about the basic things from his attacks (which were always timing attacks based on upgrades and exploiting build orders) to his basis of his success (he was never mechanically superior to the likes of DRG and Losira, at best equal).
Tactically he was brilliant. Strategically he was never anything special. The only possible contributions he made to the metagame were a different upgrade path to ZvZ (which was never fleshed out after TSL4) and the use of drop play in ZvP to set up the late game army (also never fleshed out). Otherwise he simply adapted pre-existing builds and pushed them to their natural limits. He was also mediocre at broodlord-infestor play since it was slow and he's uncomfortable with using a slow army.
Everyone seems to have undergone collective amnesia and forgotten that Life's ZvZ was not good after 2 base mutalisk fell out of fashion post-summer 2012. From then until HotS he was relying on fundamentals to win. In that sense he never changed.
You don't really say anything that invalidates my points.
I never said that his famed style of Zerg was bad. His ling heavy mid game and use of those lings was really something that made him unique. But as I mentioned, now that that style of play is no longer feasible with mamacore, mines/no siege research, and better defensive capabilities allowing safer thirds for P and T, that aggressive style has fallen out because it no longer accomplishes anything. Soulkey has tried playing a similar ling heavy mid game, most recently in the PL finals.
Can one say that Life had good strategic sense with coming up with that kind of style? Because it was successful, we think in retrospect that it was. The style was very successful after all. But whether that was a function of Life having a good strategic mind, or it being a fortunate metagame that allowed it to succeed, it is difficult to tell. But now that Life is struggling so clearly to figure out matchups that no longer abide by the standards where he succeeded in, we can say that strategically he is weak.
Tactically, he was really clever with his ling movement and the way he attacks into armies, which I described earlier. At that point very few Zergs had the mechanics to do that. Having higher APM does not make better mechanics. Losira, for example, might have insane APM, but always plays very sloppy. At that time no other zerg had better engagements, micro, and army movement, all parts of using one's mechanics efficiently.
May 2012 (I dunno what is summer for you) to the end of WoL his ZvZ was still 64%. His ZvZ also was built on a lot of early pools and just out microing his opponent.
On August 07 2013 16:49 sc2holar wrote: Has anyone read an interview with Life post HoTS or something where he explains why he seems to struggle so much? he was looking like the next Bonjwa during the last days of WoL...
HoTS changes a lot of strategies and Life's style is no longer strong. Not just Life, it happens to many of the top WoL players.
i guess you are right, but i always thought players of that caliber were capable of adapting. i mean some kespa like players like Bogus could go directly from BW into HoTS and start dominating, changing your style from WoL to fit HoTS shouldnt be THAT hard for a top-tier player, especially in comparison to the BW>HoTS switch.
Life actually did go from WoL to HotS and dominate initially, he won MLG and qualified for the Asian Indoor Tournament (kicking Flash's ass twice).
No, I think there's something else wrong with Life.
Life fans will disagree but it is because everyone has caught up with his mechanics. During his reign he had the best mechanics and micro out of any zerg player. His zergling baneling micro was unparalleled. He was strategically naive doing whatever he wanted but he made it work because of his superior control. Now that everyone has caught up, he can't get by on his mechanics alone. He's playing the same way while everyone has improved.
As a Life fan I disagree because you clearly don't understand why he was successful at all.
You should read the rest of the conversation
I did. Most of the conversation is simply wrong about the basic things from his attacks (which were always timing attacks based on upgrades and exploiting build orders) to his basis of his success (he was never mechanically superior to the likes of DRG and Losira, at best equal).
Tactically he was brilliant. Strategically he was never anything special. The only possible contributions he made to the metagame were a different upgrade path to ZvZ (which was never fleshed out after TSL4) and the use of drop play in ZvP to set up the late game army (also never fleshed out). Otherwise he simply adapted pre-existing builds and pushed them to their natural limits. He was also mediocre at broodlord-infestor play since it was slow and he's uncomfortable with using a slow army.
Everyone seems to have undergone collective amnesia and forgotten that Life's ZvZ was not good after 2 base mutalisk fell out of fashion post-summer 2012. From then until HotS he was relying on fundamentals to win. In that sense he never changed.
You don't really say anything that invalidates my points.
I never said that his famed style of Zerg was bad. His ling heavy mid game and use of those lings was really something that made him unique. But as I mentioned, now that that style of play is no longer feasible with mamacore, mines/no siege research, and better defensive capabilities allowing safer thirds for P and T, that aggressive style has fallen out because it no longer accomplishes anything. Soulkey has tried playing a similar ling heavy mid game, most recently in the PL finals.
Can one say that Life had good strategic sense with coming up with that kind of style? Because it was successful, we think in retrospect that it was. The style was very successful after all. But whether that was a function of Life having a good strategic mind, or it being a fortunate metagame that allowed it to succeed, it is difficult to tell. But now that Life is struggling so clearly to figure out matchups that no longer abide by the standards where he succeeded in, we can say that strategically he is weak.
Tactically, he was really clever with his ling movement and the way he attacks into armies, which I described earlier. At that point very few Zergs had the mechanics to do that. Having higher APM does not make better mechanics. Losira, for example, might have insane APM, but always plays very sloppy. At that time no other zerg had better engagements, micro, and army movement, all parts of using one's mechanics efficiently.
May 2012 (I dunno what is summer for you) to the end of WoL his ZvZ was still 64%. His ZvZ also was built on a lot of early pools and just out microing his opponent.
That aggressive style is actually the only style that can win ZvT in the current metagame. The turtle style does not work anymore due to how terran's new unit compositions and faster upgrades affect the matchup. However, Soulkey executed it incorrectly by committing too much gas to baneling runbys that never worked.
"Coming up with that kind of style" implies it was a conscious decision to do that. In reality he finds it very hard to play any other type of style. It's the reason why his BL/infestor lategame was always weak compared to Curious and it took so hard to become good at ZvP. Honestly he would have been successful no matter what style he played but the fact that he could exploit the metagame so well (while retaining the strengths of zerg in the ZvT matchup at that point in time) made him nearly unstoppable. He even admitted in interviews that he just plays like that because he feels natural. Otherwise you could not consider him strategically good in his prime.
The thing is he's not struggling in those matchups at all. His ZvT is still around 70% and most of his losses are due to failed early pools. His ZvP is still very good and most of those losses were (his losses against Parting). His main failures are in ZvZ, a matchup where he has always struggled once 2 base mutalisk fell out of fashion.
And Life had slightly worse macro and multitasking.
Post-summer is after September.
Most people are looking for some academic reason why Life is struggling when the answer is much simpler: he's struggling because he's worse in the areas that made him a champion. In particularly his tactics and decision-making are much worse across the board. Obviously the changes in the matchups have had their effect (in particular zerg seems to be struggling hard in Korea) but the main reason is that he wasn't practicing seriously and playing too much LoL.
Seriously, what's there to analyse and speculate? Life simply isn't as great as many think. He had a brief spell of dominance (3 months?) after he won the GSL, but has showcased Code S RO16 results ever since, towards the end of WoL, losing to the superior likes of roro and Soulkey (nothing to do with HoTS).
Also consider this: - Laugh at Innovation and Soulkey all you want, but making to RO8 and RO4 in the second WCS Korea tourney after their epic finals is a mean feat. How many champions have fallen at the group stages after a strong performance? Nearly all. Also, Innovation and Soulkey have been producing consistent results even before 2013, during the end of WoL. And their play was just as impressive as, if not more than, Life's. - Much as I dislike him (for his all-ins and his apparent stroke of luck), Symbol is arguably a stronger player than Life in terms of fundamentals. Again, I don't want to be psycho-analytic, but fundamentals for me means all-round abilities (mechanics, tactics, strategy, etc.) Suffice to say if you are strong fundamentally, you will never falter to far off the perch. Symbol hasn't, but Life has.
Sure, Life may be the top Zerg bonjwa for about 3 months during WoL. But more than half a year has passed since then. It hurts to be his fanboy, just as it hurts for me to be MC's fanboy (once), but we just gotta move on and accept that there are simply other players better than Life and MC.
I'm not saying analysing about Life's decline is necessarily a bad thing. But I just think the time has long passed in analysing why a "top zerg bonjwa has fallen". He's fallen some time ago (and I daresay he never even climbed to the top spot like Innovation and Soulkey have), and people should acting surprised of his poor performances and results.
Sorry if I offended anyone, but that's how I feel.
You shouldn't use the word 'bonjwa'; people don't like it unless you're being facetious.
Comparing Symbol and Life is interesting. I consider Symbol more strategically astute with weaker micro and army control. But his ability to adjust to the metagame and come up with new ways to win is the reason why he is so consistent. Not having that world beating control and micro means he probably won't ever be a champion, but he's not in Ro8 every season just because of luck. Life on the other hand has that micro and battle command that can separate him, and it did separate him from the pack during his period of dominance, but as I mentioned earlier he is strategically naive. He hasn't adjusted his play along with the metagame and that is why he hasn't succeeded as much as his fans would like.
Anyway that's all I have to say about Life, don't really care to say more
On August 08 2013 12:13 lichter wrote: You shouldn't use the word 'bonjwa'; people don't like it unless you're being facetious.
Comparing Symbol and Life is interesting. I consider Symbol more strategically astute with weaker micro and army control. But his ability to adjust to the metagame and come up with new ways to win is the reason why he is so consistent. Not having that world beating control and micro means he probably won't ever be a champion, but he's not in Ro8 every season just because of luck. Life on the other hand has that micro and battle command that can separate him, and it did separate him from the pack during his period of dominance, but as I mentioned earlier he is strategically naive. He hasn't adjusted his play along with the metagame and that is why he hasn't succeeded as much as his fans would like.
Anyway that's all I have to say about Life, don't really care to say more
Agreed. Anyway, I meant "Zerg bonjwa" as a running joke. And I actually like all your previous analysis, because you didn't really start off with the premise of "OMG, Life has fallen! What has the world come to?", unlike some of the others.
On August 08 2013 12:06 RKC wrote: Seriously, what's there to analyse and speculate? Life simply isn't as great as many think. He had a brief spell of dominance (3 months?) after he won the GSL, but has showcased Code S RO16 results ever since, towards the end of WoL, losing to the superior likes of roro and Soulkey (nothing to do with HoTS).
Also consider this: - Laugh at Innovation and Soulkey all you want, but making to RO8 and RO4 in the second WCS Korea tourney after their epic finals is a mean feat. How many champions have fallen at the group stages after a strong performance? Nearly all. Also, Innovation and Soulkey have been producing consistent results even before 2013, during the end of WoL. And their play was just as impressive as, if not more than, Life's. - Much as I dislike him (for his all-ins and his apparent stroke of luck), Symbol is arguably a stronger player than Life in terms of fundamentals. Again, I don't want to be psycho-analytic, but fundamentals for me means all-round abilities (mechanics, tactics, strategy, etc.) Suffice to say if you are strong fundamentally, you will never falter to far off the perch. Symbol hasn't, but Life has.
Sure, Life may be the top Zerg bonjwa for about 3 months during WoL. But more than half a year has passed since then. It hurts to be his fanboy, just as it hurts for me to be MC's fanboy (once), but we just gotta move on and accept that there are simply other players better than Life and MC.
I'm not saying analysing about Life's decline is necessarily a bad thing. But I just think the time has long passed in analysing why a "top zerg bonjwa has fallen". He's fallen some time ago (and I daresay he never even climbed to the top spot like Innovation and Soulkey have), and people should acting surprised of his poor performances and results.
Sorry if I offended anyone, but that's how I feel.
Life always got the benefit of the doubt for falling out of the ro16 because he usually got the group of death. In addition, while he would fall out of the gsl earlier than expected, he'd make waves elsewhere in dominating fashion, like MLG.
Fell out of 2012 season 5 in ZvZ -> stomped a zerg infested Blizzard Cup -> Won Iron Squid II (coming back from a 0-3 deficit against DRG)
Fell out of the final WoL season -> Crushed MLG in HotS while other Zergs faltered -> Qualify for a stacked Asian Indoor Tournament
Soulkey and RorO took him out in WoL, but overall I found Life's play outside of ZvZ to be far more impressive. Not only that, but I'd credit Life for also spearheading the more offensive Zerg we've come to know. I had never seen a Zerg expertly distract so well while macroing and comfortably transition out of so many early pools up until Life's gsl run (which was also one of the most dominant ever). I mean initially, nearly every top zerg at the time admitted they had trouble replicating his play. Even DRG who's comparable mechanically.
So even in retrospect, I think Life deserved his position at the top of the totem pole. For longer than 3 months too. He lost his crown in my eyes, when Bogus and PartinG took him out in the group of death (Bogus pulled ahead at that point).
Oh and I still think Life is at least better than RorO (bet he won't make it out of his up/down group either).
I feel for Zerg now. Besides SK (who is the undisputed No. 1 Zerg imho), there is no other that comes close to the throne. Symbol? Certainly not Life or RorO, judging by recent performance and form.
Contrast this to the dominance of Terran and resurgence of Toss.
On August 08 2013 15:17 Severian wrote: Just finished reading it, doesn't look too complicated. I'm happy to do it if NovemberstOrm isn't able to.
It's fairly easy once you get the hang of it. It's just really time consuming unless you already plan to watch all the games.
The Up and Downs are the easiest type of LR to do since everything is set and all you need to do is bold names, write down scores and put up polls. If you are interested in trying, I suggest taking this opportunity. NovstOrm won't mind. :p
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/22QTx.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/thumb/3/30/Writers_Icon.png/15px-Writers_Icon.png){kind=icon}
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/r9ZH0.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/e/ea/Gomtv_ico.jpg)
GOMTV | ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/7/7f/Twitch_ico.png)
WCS GSL![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6wl40.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/icons/74.png){kind=icon}
Life | ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/icons/1.png){kind=icon}
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/icons/107.png){kind=icon}
Bang | ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/icons/9.png){kind=icon}
herO | ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/icons/68.png){kind=icon}
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bv8Kw.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/l5YZ8.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3wcCS.png)
ByuN and 
Hurricane won the spots this season
Savage
((((((
roam I being a hopeless optimist?![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4S3AeQF.jpg)
