Match 1: Soulkey is already first, so the match versus Parting does not matter anymore. Match 2: Flash vs Bbyong is not relevant also anymore. Match 3: First vs Hyvaa, still very relevant. If First wins, he is first, and Fantasy is still in. If Hyvaa wins, everything is still open between Rain, Hyvaa and First, but Fantasy is out. Match 4: Supernova and Trap play directly for the 2nd spot
On July 16 2013 16:44 opterown wrote: cheering for supernova! otherwise not too much invested in these matches
still hoping for a 3-way tie between hyvaa, First and Rain just for the sake of it. So hyvaa needs to win today and then Rain needs to win the next match.
The other two matches are not important anymore so I just hope to see entertaining games
Not too sure on the latter two, especially not Supernova. I feel like First still needs to show me some convincing PvZ and Supernova still has something to prove in general for me. Giving them the benefit of the doubt though.
On July 16 2013 17:15 Za7oX wrote: oh my Parting vs Soulkey? Wheres the HYPE????
Stuck in May probably when it seemed a bit more even.
Soulkey is soaring and PartinG's PvZ is plummeting. I expect a stomp there.
getting hyped for meaningless matches is rather difficult. I think after all I prefer groups being played out in one day instead of only one match every day. Better storylines and hype that way. I hoped this format would make players prepare specific strategies just for their opponents but I haven't seen much of that :/
OSL format sux. U got 2 matches today which are worth nothing. I dont like the groupthing, better go 1 group a day, loser/winners etcetc. Now, we have to watch 2 matches that dont matter.
Soukey 2 - 0 Parting - Given recent form and nothing on the line I think Soulkey should take it fairly easy. Hopefully the games are decent.
Flash 2- 1 Bbyong -I think Flash will win but I think he'll do something bad enough to cost himself a game.
First 2 - 1 Hyvaa - One succesful cheese for Hyvaa, one failed cheese, and one more standard game which First wins
Supernova 2 - 1 Trap - I just think Supernova is the favourite.
I can't decide whether I want Hyvaa to win or not, on the one hand his random cheeses or all ins add some variety but they can also produce horrible games like last weeks 6 pool. I'm also not too invested in either Trap or Supernova so I'll just fallback to my Protoss bias and cheer for Trap.
On July 16 2013 16:44 opterown wrote: cheering for supernova! otherwise not too much invested in these matches
still hoping for a 3-way tie between hyvaa, First and Rain just for the sake of it. So hyvaa needs to win today and then Rain needs to win the next match.
The other two matches are not important anymore so I just hope to see entertaining games
I´ve read this many times now, may I ask why? Even if First loses 0-2 and Rain wins 2-0, First would be 4-2 and Rain 4-3, so that First would have a better mapscore than Rain. Has´nt he already advanced through this?
On July 16 2013 16:44 opterown wrote: cheering for supernova! otherwise not too much invested in these matches
still hoping for a 3-way tie between hyvaa, First and Rain just for the sake of it. So hyvaa needs to win today and then Rain needs to win the next match.
The other two matches are not important anymore so I just hope to see entertaining games
I´ve read this many times now, may I ask why? Even if First loses 0-2 and Rain wins 2-0, First would be 4-2 and Rain 4-3, so that First would have a better mapscore than Rain. Has´nt he already advanced through this?
The tie breakers are not determined by mapscores. Mapscores are completely irrelevant. If they tie, they play Bo1 tie breaker matches.
I just realized there could also be a three-way tie if First wins and then Fantasy wins against Rain. Would mean First won the group and then tie-breaker between the other three players for the 2nd place, right?
Sounds even better than a tie between First, Rain and hyvaa. Okay, go First, win this one for me :D
On July 16 2013 16:44 opterown wrote: cheering for supernova! otherwise not too much invested in these matches
still hoping for a 3-way tie between hyvaa, First and Rain just for the sake of it. So hyvaa needs to win today and then Rain needs to win the next match.
The other two matches are not important anymore so I just hope to see entertaining games
I´ve read this many times now, may I ask why? Even if First loses 0-2 and Rain wins 2-0, First would be 4-2 and Rain 4-3, so that First would have a better mapscore than Rain. Has´nt he already advanced through this?
The tie breakers are not determined by mapscores. Mapscores are completely irrelevant. If they tie, they play Bo1 tie breaker matches.
Ok, thanks. I think that is complete bullshit and kinda ignores the point of RR but at least I know, what is going on now.
On July 16 2013 16:44 opterown wrote: cheering for supernova! otherwise not too much invested in these matches
still hoping for a 3-way tie between hyvaa, First and Rain just for the sake of it. So hyvaa needs to win today and then Rain needs to win the next match.
The other two matches are not important anymore so I just hope to see entertaining games
I´ve read this many times now, may I ask why? Even if First loses 0-2 and Rain wins 2-0, First would be 4-2 and Rain 4-3, so that First would have a better mapscore than Rain. Has´nt he already advanced through this?
The tie breakers are not determined by mapscores. Mapscores are completely irrelevant. If they tie, they play Bo1 tie breaker matches.
Ok, thanks. I think that is complete bullshit and kinda ignores the point of RR but at least I know, what is going on now.
I agree that it's inefficient, but they aren't doing this because it makes sense
The format is as it is because they want an assured number of matches that can be scheduled in advance, and the possibility of the most number of meaningful matches. Allowing a more 'logical' tiebreaker such as mapscores decreases the number of possible games. This would mess up OGN's TV schedule. Other sports play meaningless games too, mostly because of this reason.
my predictions for the night, the left side is just clearly my favorite :D
Trap lost to Maru and is clearly the favorite against Supernova, who beat Squirtle and PartinG? Idk about this. Edit: Talking about the left side in LR Thread, maybe you meant smth. else, in this case nvm.
my predictions for the night, the left side is just clearly my favorite :D
Trap lost to Maru and is clearly the favorite against Supernova, who beat Squirtle and PartinG? Idk about this. Edit: Talking about the left side in LR Thread, maybe you meant smth. else, in this case nvm.
Nope you're right, I got the wrong side :p In any event, I just think Suno is going to win vs Trap :p
On July 16 2013 18:03 TheFlexN wrote: I dont get how did meaningless matches happen in this tournament. It feels like bad match management.
all matches are played it's round robin.
But there is no real meaning for the game, now we watch soulkey vs parting and no matter how it ends, parting is going down and soulkey advances. Why is it being casted if it doesnt have a real result? What am I missing?
On July 16 2013 18:03 TheFlexN wrote: I dont get how did meaningless matches happen in this tournament. It feels like bad match management.
all matches are played it's round robin.
But there is no real meaning for the game, now we watch soulkey vs parting and no matter how it ends, parting is going down and soulkey advances. Why is it being casted if it doesnt have a real result? What am I missing?
because they want to make sure they push back trap vs. supernova just long enough for me to not watch it
On July 16 2013 18:03 TheFlexN wrote: I dont get how did meaningless matches happen in this tournament. It feels like bad match management.
all matches are played it's round robin.
But there is no real meaning for the game, now we watch soulkey vs parting and no matter how it ends, parting is going down and soulkey advances. Why is it being casted if it doesnt have a real result? What am I missing?
it kind of matters. not hugely, but they kinda do.
if you're first place in your group, you go up against someone who got second in their group and vice versa. if you're third, you get more WCS points than if you're fourth.
On July 16 2013 16:44 opterown wrote: cheering for supernova! otherwise not too much invested in these matches
still hoping for a 3-way tie between hyvaa, First and Rain just for the sake of it. So hyvaa needs to win today and then Rain needs to win the next match.
The other two matches are not important anymore so I just hope to see entertaining games
I´ve read this many times now, may I ask why? Even if First loses 0-2 and Rain wins 2-0, First would be 4-2 and Rain 4-3, so that First would have a better mapscore than Rain. Has´nt he already advanced through this?
The tie breakers are not determined by mapscores. Mapscores are completely irrelevant. If they tie, they play Bo1 tie breaker matches.
Ok, thanks. I think that is complete bullshit and kinda ignores the point of RR but at least I know, what is going on now.
I agree that it's inefficient, but they aren't doing this because it makes sense
The format is as it is because they want an assured number of matches that can be scheduled in advance, and the possibility of the most number of meaningful matches. Allowing a more 'logical' tiebreaker such as mapscores decreases the number of possible games. This would mess up OGN's TV schedule. Other sports play meaningless games too, mostly because of this reason.
This kinda makes sence, still the reasonability of the tournament should be more important than OGN´s schedule and they can´t really plan tie breakers that much in advance either. But still, more games=more money is an argument, I can´t really deny.
On July 16 2013 17:15 Za7oX wrote: oh my Parting vs Soulkey? Wheres the HYPE????
Stuck in May probably when it seemed a bit more even.
Soulkey is soaring and PartinG's PvZ is plummeting. I expect a stomp there.
getting hyped for meaningless matches is rather difficult. I think after all I prefer groups being played out in one day instead of only one match every day. Better storylines and hype that way. I hoped this format would make players prepare specific strategies just for their opponents but I haven't seen much of that :/
I would agree that the old format is a defiantly a better viewing experience.
On July 16 2013 18:03 TheFlexN wrote: I dont get how did meaningless matches happen in this tournament. It feels like bad match management.
all matches are played it's round robin.
But there is no real meaning for the game, now we watch soulkey vs parting and no matter how it ends, parting is going down and soulkey advances. Why is it being casted if it doesnt have a real result? What am I missing?
it kind of matters. not hugely, but they kinda do.
if you're first place in your group, you go up against someone who got second in their group and vice versa. if you're third, you get more WCS points than if you're fourth.
This is such a backwards approach for the group stage, it takes all the hype from the watches because they dont have results. It confuses me so much >.<
the fuck is wrong with you guys. I guess no one ever watch these right bar streams because it's even more meaningless than a bo3 between 2 top notch players
On July 16 2013 17:15 Za7oX wrote: oh my Parting vs Soulkey? Wheres the HYPE????
Stuck in May probably when it seemed a bit more even.
Soulkey is soaring and PartinG's PvZ is plummeting. I expect a stomp there.
getting hyped for meaningless matches is rather difficult. I think after all I prefer groups being played out in one day instead of only one match every day. Better storylines and hype that way. I hoped this format would make players prepare specific strategies just for their opponents but I haven't seen much of that :/
I would agree that the old format is a defiantly a better viewing experience.
as I said: this format had the potential of very interesting games because of specific preparation. But somehow that didn't work out, players just played their standard games instead of showing us the really interesting stuff. So without that this format loses any advantage it has over the other format
Are there different observers on the different streams? Watching OGN stream, can't believe that the observer almost missed the big battle at Partings 3rd.
On July 16 2013 18:28 DJHelium wrote: Are there different observers on the different streams? Watching OGN stream, can't believe that the observer almost missed the big battle at Partings 3rd.
On July 16 2013 18:30 Thrillz wrote: VRs are a much better choice than Tempest in this situation.
Indeed i thought that, every time his go to unit when he is vs this comp from PartinG is Tempest...WHY?! Could of chrono'd out more Voids cheaper than the 3 tempests he has. Oh well ^_^
what the fuck is tastosis doing. they've been saying over and over again that the game is over for 3 minutes now. go back to casting the game because it's not going to be over for a while ~_~
Gits whinging about CORRUPTORS not being 3 supply in chat. Wowee. Parting gets tempests against and army that would be destroyed by properly managed void rays. Oh dear.
On July 16 2013 18:34 Gamegene wrote: go back to casting the game because it's not going to be over for a while ~_~
On July 16 2013 18:33 Kim Hyuna wrote: free units....... fuck....................
hate this match up soon much.
PartinG lost because he made battle mistakes, soulkey played pretty perfectly.
No... 20 corruptor still owns voidrays..............
it's the tons of free units from broods and swarm........ it forced P to play very defensive and force P to get ranged units like tempest to deal with it.
On July 16 2013 18:33 Kim Hyuna wrote: free units....... fuck....................
hate this match up soon much.
PartinG lost because he made battle mistakes, soulkey played pretty perfectly.
it's kinda funny. The last time I saw this kind of lategame PvZ it was Rain playing and he destroyed his opponent and quite a lot of people in the LR started complaining that lategame PvZ is unwinnable for Zerg...
Man, swarmhosts are tankier than I thought. Although, that said, those storms looked more impressive than they actually were as storms don't stack. Parting might have wanted to expend the remaining storms on the broodlords than on the swarmhosts.
On July 16 2013 18:33 Kim Hyuna wrote: free units....... fuck....................
hate this match up soon much.
PartinG lost because he made battle mistakes, soulkey played pretty perfectly.
No... 20 corruptor still owns voidrays..............
it's the tons of free units from broods and swarm........ it forced P to play very defensive and force P to get ranged units like tempest to deal with it.
On July 16 2013 18:33 Kim Hyuna wrote: free units....... fuck....................
hate this match up soon much.
PartinG lost because he made battle mistakes, soulkey played pretty perfectly.
No... 20 corruptor still owns voidrays..............
it's the tons of free units from broods and swarm........ it forced P to play very defensive and force P to get ranged units like tempest to deal with it.
If he had like 10 voidrays instead of 9 tempests he probably would have won that lol. Prismatic alignment voidrays do filthy damage to corrupters.
On July 16 2013 18:33 Kim Hyuna wrote: free units....... fuck....................
hate this match up soon much.
PartinG lost because he made battle mistakes, soulkey played pretty perfectly.
No... 20 corruptor still owns voidrays..............
it's the tons of free units from broods and swarm........ it forced P to play very defensive and force P to get ranged units like tempest to deal with it.
No, Parting made mistakes and lost.
20 curruptors by no means own void rays. In fact in equal cost I doubt they will even beat the void rays.
On July 16 2013 18:33 Kim Hyuna wrote: free units....... fuck....................
hate this match up soon much.
PartinG lost because he made battle mistakes, soulkey played pretty perfectly.
No... 20 corruptor still owns voidrays..............
it's the tons of free units from broods and swarm........ it forced P to play very defensive and force P to get ranged units like tempest to deal with it.
No, Parting made mistakes and lost.
It would look so different if Parting got voidrays and not tempests, with the lack of hydras the corruptors would melt instantly and Parting had a better chance to win the game, but I think he'd lose the 4th base.
On July 16 2013 18:33 Kim Hyuna wrote: free units....... fuck....................
hate this match up soon much.
PartinG lost because he made battle mistakes, soulkey played pretty perfectly.
No... 20 corruptor still owns voidrays..............
it's the tons of free units from broods and swarm........ it forced P to play very defensive and force P to get ranged units like tempest to deal with it.
You are vastly underestimating void rays. Curruptors wouldn't have stood a chance.
On July 16 2013 18:33 Kim Hyuna wrote: free units....... fuck....................
hate this match up soon much.
PartinG lost because he made battle mistakes, soulkey played pretty perfectly.
it's kinda funny. The last time I saw this kind of lategame PvZ it was Rain playing and he destroyed his opponent and quite a lot of people in the LR started complaining that lategame PvZ is unwinnable for Zerg...
what I never understand is that either zerg/protoss (not both) could reach absolute invincibility at some point. The game escalates pretty quickly from there
On July 16 2013 18:33 Kim Hyuna wrote: free units....... fuck....................
hate this match up soon much.
PartinG lost because he made battle mistakes, soulkey played pretty perfectly.
No... 20 corruptor still owns voidrays..............
it's the tons of free units from broods and swarm........ it forced P to play very defensive and force P to get ranged units like tempest to deal with it.
If he had like 10 voidrays instead of 9 tempests he probably would have won that lol. Prismatic alignment voidrays do filthy damage to corrupters.
On July 16 2013 18:38 Qikz wrote: I think the biggest issue with that game was that Parting stormed so much every single time and nothing died.
Storm isn't strong enough I don't think, especially not against zerg.
That was certainly more interesting than old PvZ atleast.
If he didn't overmake tempests, then he would have won from storms. When he stormed and killed all the corrupters before broodlords were out he had such an advantage it was unreal.
Choosing between fighting BLSH and BLInfestor is like when you're submerged in a pool of piss, and someone comes and dumps shit over your head. Which one do you pick? How about which limb you want to severe?
Not saying it's imbalanced or anything (BLinfestor was, blsh wasnt) but man, it's annoying.
On July 16 2013 18:33 Kim Hyuna wrote: free units....... fuck....................
hate this match up soon much.
PartinG lost because he made battle mistakes, soulkey played pretty perfectly.
No... 20 corruptor still owns voidrays..............
it's the tons of free units from broods and swarm........ it forced P to play very defensive and force P to get ranged units like tempest to deal with it.
You better not be comparing cost for cost... 20 corruptors own 7 or less void rays, sure. Every storm that lands makes a huge difference too.
On July 16 2013 18:33 Kim Hyuna wrote: free units....... fuck....................
hate this match up soon much.
PartinG lost because he made battle mistakes, soulkey played pretty perfectly.
No... 20 corruptor still owns voidrays..............
it's the tons of free units from broods and swarm........ it forced P to play very defensive and force P to get ranged units like tempest to deal with it.
If he had like 10 voidrays instead of 9 tempests he probably would have won that lol. Prismatic alignment voidrays do filthy damage to corrupters.
On July 16 2013 18:33 Kim Hyuna wrote: free units....... fuck....................
hate this match up soon much.
PartinG lost because he made battle mistakes, soulkey played pretty perfectly.
No... 20 corruptor still owns voidrays..............
it's the tons of free units from broods and swarm........ it forced P to play very defensive and force P to get ranged units like tempest to deal with it.
If he had like 10 voidrays instead of 9 tempests he probably would have won that lol. Prismatic alignment voidrays do filthy damage to corrupters.
fucking zerg player.
Gosh, delusional and rude. 10 void rays are about equal to 20 corruptors, but they cost less. Charge up and watch. Then try again with one or two storms landing.
On July 16 2013 18:45 hummingbird23 wrote: If only I could have 9 voids now instead of 4 tempests... well, that kind of instantly choosing to counter a composition is something only zerg has.
Not like zerg players don't lose harder then anyone for making the wrong units at the wrong time.
And its not like making 9 tempests was a good choice in the first place.
On July 16 2013 18:45 hummingbird23 wrote: If only I could have 9 voids now instead of 4 tempests... well, that kind of instantly choosing to counter a composition is something only zerg has.
he only needed to have scouted any number of BLs and instantly switched to them. He had at least 2 stargates, right?
On July 16 2013 18:48 Rammstorm wrote: Happens for not GG'ing in game 1 and trying to be annoying.
He still coulda won since Soulkey was barely mining.
Please, please, please stop listening to what's been spouted ever since the start of WoL in that comebacks are impossible. They're not. If you want everyone to GG after losing a single unit like Idra does then fair enough, but people are going to continue to play until they feel they cannot win. Let them play it out.
God knows how some of you would feel after watching Fantasy in BW, if anything it made me his fan.
On July 16 2013 18:45 hummingbird23 wrote: If only I could have 9 voids now instead of 4 tempests... well, that kind of instantly choosing to counter a composition is something only zerg has.
he only needed to have scouted any number of BLs and instantly switched to them. He had at least 2 stargates, right?
Parting is still good, he is maybe in a slump and not as good as he was last season or in 2012 etc. but he is still great. Point is, SoulKey can make anyone look stupid.
On July 16 2013 18:51 Ramiz1989 wrote: Parting is still good, he is maybe in a slump and not as good as he was last season or in 2012 etc. but he is still great. Point is, SoulKey can make anyone look stupid.
Pretty much. Him and Innovation feel like they are leagues ahead of anyone at the moment.
On July 16 2013 18:48 Rammstorm wrote: Happens for not GG'ing in game 1 and trying to be annoying.
He still coulda won since Soulkey was barely mining.
Please, please, please stop listening to what's been spouted ever since the start of WoL in that comebacks are impossible. They're not. If you want everyone to GG after losing a single unit like Idra does then fair enough, but people are going to continue to play until they feel they cannot win. Let them play it out.
God knows how some of you would feel after watching Fantasy in BW, if anything it made me his fan.
Especially since parting has recovered in similar situations not that long ago, in a pretty famous group of death.
The difference was that in the game vs Life, he went 10pool speed, so Parting had time to cancel his nexus. Also, his initial building placement was better so he was able to fully wall much faster.
On July 16 2013 18:52 Teoita wrote: The difference was that in the game vs Life, he went 10pool speed, so Parting had time to cancel his nexus. Also, his initial building placement was better so he was able to fully wall much faster.
Of course, but it's still not like a mistake couldn't happen. Its possible that soulkey would make a mistake or something and parting could make a comeback, not likely but still possible.
Flash and Bbyong are playing for 3rd place in their group and an extra 100 WCS points, so this match isn't entirely worthless. Though it's unlikely either of them will make top 16 at this point, Flash still could and this 100 would certainly help close that gap a bit.
On July 16 2013 18:50 Keeemy wrote: GJ Soulkey. PartinG played well in game1, just should've gotten Voids.
Also, I kinda feel that SHs have too much HP.
They should have sentry HP.
Trust me, I would reduce their size, make them fast as Stalkers or Speed Hydras, and reduce their HP to 100, it would fit Zerg much better.
Oh god no, they'd never be caught.
Well speed Hydras have the same speed as workers, they are not that fast. Anyway, maybe 140 HP would be enough, but I don't know, even now when they are caught you can lose a lot of them, and they cost a lot, they have the same HP as Siege Tanks, as they are similar kind of units.
Well it's way way way harder to close in and get shots off on a swarm host compared to a siege tank.
Really, blizzard should just get their shit together and think hard and long about free units, how they ruined wol and what lessons can be learnt from that.
On July 16 2013 18:48 Rammstorm wrote: Happens for not GG'ing in game 1 and trying to be annoying.
Yeah trying to make a game out of a late game PvZ against SH, what a douche
SK had won the game for sure, no chance to beat that army unless SK goes AFK. SK knew he won the game, Parting too. He just tried to prolong the game. Therefore he was ridiculed in game 2.
On July 16 2013 18:48 Rammstorm wrote: Happens for not GG'ing in game 1 and trying to be annoying.
He still coulda won since Soulkey was barely mining.
Please, please, please stop listening to what's been spouted ever since the start of WoL in that comebacks are impossible. They're not. If you want everyone to GG after losing a single unit like Idra does then fair enough, but people are going to continue to play until they feel they cannot win. Let them play it out.
God knows how some of you would feel after watching Fantasy in BW, if anything it made me his fan.
Realistically the with such good players is it impossible to have a comeback in that game unless he committed a huge blunder. If anything SK was overconfident(expected a GG), losing focus and losing the BL's he had and the bases.
Parting tends to do that with the Stalkers, so he got BM'd in next game as he should .
I'm quite confused, i've not really been following this season, why did they change the WCS format and bring back pointless matches? i understand doing the groups over time instead of on one day (although i prefer the other way around as i don't have time to keep up every week to follow one group) but bringing back pointless matches and making the WCS KR not fit with other regions seems really bad.
On July 16 2013 19:01 Surili wrote: I'm quite confused, i've not really been following this season, why did they change the WCS format and bring back pointless matches? i understand doing the groups over time instead of on one day (although i prefer the other way around as i don't have time to keep up every week to follow one group) but bringing back pointless matches and making the WCS KR not fit with other regions seems really bad.
Is it just round robin groups now?
The short story is that it's OSL:s format, it's not GSL.
On July 16 2013 19:01 Surili wrote: I'm quite confused, i've not really been following this season, why did they change the WCS format and bring back pointless matches? i understand doing the groups over time instead of on one day (although i prefer the other way around as i don't have time to keep up every week to follow one group) but bringing back pointless matches and making the WCS KR not fit with other regions seems really bad.
Is it just round robin groups now?
No match is pointless, they fight for WCS points for the season finals.
On July 16 2013 19:01 Surili wrote: I'm quite confused, i've not really been following this season, why did they change the WCS format and bring back pointless matches? i understand doing the groups over time instead of on one day (although i prefer the other way around as i don't have time to keep up every week to follow one group) but bringing back pointless matches and making the WCS KR not fit with other regions seems really bad.
Is it just round robin groups now?
OSL season uses OSL format, GSL seasons use GSL format. Other regions use GSL format.
On July 16 2013 19:00 Teoita wrote: Well it's way way way harder to close in and get shots off on a swarm host compared to a siege tank.
Really, blizzard should just get their shit together and think hard and long about free units, how they ruined wol and what lessons can be learnt from that.
Or from BW... No free unit and most epic game ever created. I had to say that.
It took a while to sink in, but Broodlord/Infestor was balanced too. The smart, gifted and beautiful people at Blizzard balancing just realized much earlier than the unwashed masses that Zerg players are simply much more talented than other humans and their perfectly balanced game does nothing but illustrate this glaring difference in skill.
Can't stand the beauty of it anymore; off to watch some Diablo III or World of Warcraft streams, all Transformers movies or some paint dry.
On July 16 2013 19:00 Teoita wrote: Well it's way way way harder to close in and get shots off on a swarm host compared to a siege tank.
Really, blizzard should just get their shit together and think hard and long about free units, how they ruined wol and what lessons can be learnt from that.
Blizzard wanted to give zerg a siege unit but with their own style, hence the free units. Personally i rather had the siege hydra's from the campaign.
On July 16 2013 19:05 kckkryptonite wrote: I'm tired of them talking flash up so much, he hasnt really been impressing. This format also sucks, what is the point to these games.
On July 16 2013 19:05 NovemberstOrm wrote: I hope all formats across the WCS regions are unified, along with map pools at the very least by the start of next year.
I see the point, but won't we just be seeing a number of incredibly dull maps played for a year or longer?
On July 16 2013 19:05 NovemberstOrm wrote: I hope all formats across the WCS regions are unified, along with map pools at the very least by the start of next year.
I see the point, but won't we just be seeing a number of incredibly dull maps played for a year or longer?
On July 16 2013 19:05 NovemberstOrm wrote: I hope all formats across the WCS regions are unified, along with map pools at the very least by the start of next year.
I see the point, but won't we just be seeing a number of incredibly dull maps played for a year or longer?
I mean the map pool should be changed whenever desired but every region should follow suit.
On July 16 2013 19:05 NovemberstOrm wrote: I hope all formats across the WCS regions are unified, along with map pools at the very least by the start of next year.
I see the point, but won't we just be seeing a number of incredibly dull maps played for a year or longer?
They could update the map pool for each season.
Sure, they could. Just thinking that the system right now, however imperfect, gives a greater number of maps to watch since I don't believe they'd do that enough.
On July 16 2013 19:00 Teoita wrote: Well it's way way way harder to close in and get shots off on a swarm host compared to a siege tank.
Really, blizzard should just get their shit together and think hard and long about free units, how they ruined wol and what lessons can be learnt from that.
Or from BW... No free unit and most epic game ever created. I had to say that.
On July 16 2013 19:00 Teoita wrote: Well it's way way way harder to close in and get shots off on a swarm host compared to a siege tank.
Really, blizzard should just get their shit together and think hard and long about free units, how they ruined wol and what lessons can be learnt from that.
Or from BW... No free unit and most epic game ever created. I had to say that.
What about queens?
What about 150/200 energy to make 2 broodlings? Rare to see some1 mass queen and emp could drag all energy. queens were not relevant as free unit creator.
Hellbat nerf happened, so expect more variety from now on.
Well the one matchup I actually got to watch mech now is probably going to go back to bio vs bio all the time. Eugh >_>
Because its unheard of for meching players to open banshee.
It isn't unheard of, it just makes bio more likely and the reason why I hate SC2 is I hate watching and playing BIo as I find it incredibly boring. The only matchup I've wanted to watch (outside of watching ccertain players play) was TvT as I knew I'd atleast get to watch mech vs mech.
On July 16 2013 19:21 KristofferAG wrote: I want marine/tank v marine/tank again. That shit's cool.
yeah, it's so much better then hellbat-hellbat. I hope we'll see some decent games now but so far every game BByong played this season was a big disappointment
Hellbat nerf happened, so expect more variety from now on.
Well the one matchup I actually got to watch mech now is probably going to go back to bio vs bio all the time. Eugh >_>
Because its unheard of for meching players to open banshee.
It isn't unheard of, it just makes bio more likely and the reason why I hate SC2 is I hate watching and playing BIo as I find it incredibly boring. The only matchup I've wanted to watch (outside of watching ccertain players play) was TvT as I knew I'd atleast get to watch mech vs mech.
Just go forgg style. Its solid and today in WCS EU u will hopefully see what forgg (against bunny) has done to adapt to the patch. the old forgg style has been solid in wol and in hots. SO interesting watch.
Hellbat nerf happened, so expect more variety from now on.
Well the one matchup I actually got to watch mech now is probably going to go back to bio vs bio all the time. Eugh >_>
Because its unheard of for meching players to open banshee.
It isn't unheard of, it just makes bio more likely and the reason why I hate SC2 is I hate watching and playing BIo as I find it incredibly boring. The only matchup I've wanted to watch (outside of watching ccertain players play) was TvT as I knew I'd atleast get to watch mech vs mech.
The mech vs mech of the Hellbat drop era was so horrible, plus it just felt like bio since players were just dropping 10 Hellbats on each other the whole day. This was a real and a good mech mirror, but it was before the Hellbat was fully discovered. ;(
Hellbat nerf happened, so expect more variety from now on.
Well the one matchup I actually got to watch mech now is probably going to go back to bio vs bio all the time. Eugh >_>
Because its unheard of for meching players to open banshee.
It isn't unheard of, it just makes bio more likely and the reason why I hate SC2 is I hate watching and playing BIo as I find it incredibly boring. The only matchup I've wanted to watch (outside of watching ccertain players play) was TvT as I knew I'd atleast get to watch mech vs mech.
The mech vs mech of the Hellbat drop era was so horrible, plus it just felt like bio since players were just dropping 10 Hellbats on each other the whole day. This was a real and a good mech mirror, but it was before the Hellbat was fully discovered. ;(
I'm guessing that was the Flash vs Fantasy game? Yeah that was one of the best games that's ever been played in SC2.
On July 16 2013 19:25 Lorning wrote: Seems like Bbyong isnt even trying
well, he didn't play any better against Bomber and Innovation so he probably tried but he's just not on the same level as the rest of the group
what? he played a lot better against Bomber and Innovation. granted he only won one map in both matches combined, but the games themselves looked MUCH better than this.
Bbyong's pretty thick skinned watching that replay right after the game. I'd go outside and get some air and then decide to watch it the next day. Sometimes you want the bruises from a beating to settle before revisiting the scene of the slaughter.
So, First vs hyvaa inc, this should be interesting !
Go First !
Btw, I don't get all the details about the cards, so gold is for a champion, but what's the difference between blue/grey cards ? (Sorry if it's been posted, I didn't see that)
On July 16 2013 19:34 Ragnarork wrote: So, First vs hyvaa inc, this should be interesting !
Go First !
Btw, I don't get all the details about the cards, so gold is for a champion, but what's the difference between blue/grey cards ? (Sorry if it's been posted, I didn't see that)
I think blue cards are for new Premier League players.
On July 16 2013 19:29 Frost wrote: Flash is still out right?
Yes but apparently, all games are played even if players have no chance of advancing. More Starcraft for us so I think it is a good thing
well, you saw how motivated Bbyong was to play in a basically meaningless match. I'd rather have those kinds of matches not being played but the way Korean WCS is set up, they have to play those, otherwise they'd maybe have 2 matches an evening. This is yet another reason why you dont play a single match from each group on a night. It messed things up in a long run
On July 16 2013 19:34 Ragnarork wrote: So, First vs hyvaa inc, this should be interesting !
Go First !
Btw, I don't get all the details about the cards, so gold is for a champion, but what's the difference between blue/grey cards ? (Sorry if it's been posted, I didn't see that)
Blue = code S / OSL newcomer
Grey = Already been to code S
First is blue since this is his first season, Flash is grey as he was in the ro16 last season
Everyone wondering why that match was played.. forget for a moment that there were actual WCS points on the line, are you surprised when two teams who are out of the playoffs play a game on TV at the end of an NBA/NHL/MLB/NFL season?
On July 16 2013 19:38 fuzzylogic44 wrote: Everyone wondering why that match was played.. forget for a moment that there were actual WCS points on the line, are you surprised when two teams who are out of the playoffs play a game on TV at the end of an NBA/NHL/MLB/NFL season?
On July 16 2013 19:38 XaCez wrote: Cards? What cards? When did SC2 turn into a TCG?
They're talking about the screen of upcoming matches that is shown during the 5 minute breaks - the players names are written on cards. The color of the cards isn't random - it is an indication of rank.
On July 16 2013 19:38 fuzzylogic44 wrote: Everyone wondering why that match was played.. forget for a moment that there were actual WCS points on the line, are you surprised when two teams who are out of the playoffs play a game on TV at the end of an NBA/NHL/MLB/NFL season?
really? Maybe on local tv. I dont remember any games in NFL being shown on primetime tv (Sunday Night Football etc) between 2 teams out of post-season during the final few weeks. In fact NFL actually changes the schedule and moves games around to put the more interesting ones on primetime at the end of the season. And the reason the emilinated teams play at all, is because of CBA and a whole bunch of contracts between NFL and whoever is willing to give them money. SC2 scene is a bit different.
On July 16 2013 19:43 fuzzylogic44 wrote: If First wins, he's in, if hyvaa wins, Fantasy is out. That's kind of an amusing scenario.
If First wins, fantasy plays hard vs rain so he can force tiebreakers for 2nd place, if Hyvaa wins he plays casually and lets his teammate gets tiebreakers to make ro8. how amusing.
On July 16 2013 19:30 Nirel wrote: Clide, the biggest casualty of the Artosis curse.
True..he was so good but the curse was stronger.
That one time Clide got to ro8 he happened to play MMA who beat (some would say upset) Ryung. The Artosis curse was too great and Clide narrowly lost to MMA who continued to win Code S. who knows, Clide would have probably been a multi GSL champion without that horrific curse.
On July 16 2013 19:38 XaCez wrote: Cards? What cards? When did SC2 turn into a TCG?
I have no clue what they're talking about.
On the gom stream they have player cards with their stats and tournament achievements based on color
That's the wrong stream though. This is OSL, not GSL. OGN hosts this. They produce this and they arrange this.
Also they have this fun korean show in breaks and after the broadcast with GoRush and TheMarine and Carrier and various gamers doing fun stuff.
Actually it's WCS kr and gom has the better production,better observer etc.
How can an empty studio casting a feed be a better production?
And it's actually both WCS kr and OSL.
Because the casters are better for instant.
hmm, no. But I guess it's just preference, I like their casters and observer more. But whatever, I would watch OGN stream just for the variety show itself, fuck everything else
On July 16 2013 19:38 XaCez wrote: Cards? What cards? When did SC2 turn into a TCG?
I have no clue what they're talking about.
On the gom stream they have player cards with their stats and tournament achievements based on color
That's the wrong stream though. This is OSL, not GSL. OGN hosts this. They produce this and they arrange this.
Also they have this fun korean show in breaks and after the broadcast with GoRush and TheMarine and Carrier and various gamers doing fun stuff.
they also have annoying big black bars on the stream if you go full-screen and their observer is worse
The bars are gone
oh yes, they are. Well, I'll tune in to some OGN stream from time to time then. Problem is, I have the stream muted most of the time so I don't actually care for the casters that much. And with Gom having the better Observer I'll probably still watch Gom most of the time
On July 16 2013 19:38 XaCez wrote: Cards? What cards? When did SC2 turn into a TCG?
I have no clue what they're talking about.
On the gom stream they have player cards with their stats and tournament achievements based on color
That's the wrong stream though. This is OSL, not GSL. OGN hosts this. They produce this and they arrange this.
Also they have this fun korean show in breaks and after the broadcast with GoRush and TheMarine and Carrier and various gamers doing fun stuff.
Actually it's WCS kr and gom has the better production,better observer etc.
How can an empty studio casting a feed be a better production?
And it's actually both WCS kr and OSL.
Because the casters are better for instant.
Doa and MonteCristo deserve a shot, they are actually really good casters. Personally I watch OGN stream for OGN production and Gom stream for Gom production. Seems only fair. And I feel bad for OGN that their production get 1/3 of the viewers of the production that is simply casting their feed in an empty studio.
On July 16 2013 19:38 XaCez wrote: Cards? What cards? When did SC2 turn into a TCG?
I have no clue what they're talking about.
On the gom stream they have player cards with their stats and tournament achievements based on color
That's the wrong stream though. This is OSL, not GSL. OGN hosts this. They produce this and they arrange this.
Also they have this fun korean show in breaks and after the broadcast with GoRush and TheMarine and Carrier and various gamers doing fun stuff.
they also have annoying big black bars on the stream if you go full-screen and their observer is worse
The bars are gone
oh yes, they are. Well, I'll tune in to some OGN stream from time to time then. Problem is, I have the stream muted most of the time so I don't actually care for the casters that much. And with Gom having the better Observer I'll probably still watch Gom most of the time
At least I suggest you hop over to OGN stream during breaks. Fun variety shows!
On July 16 2013 19:38 XaCez wrote: Cards? What cards? When did SC2 turn into a TCG?
I have no clue what they're talking about.
On the gom stream they have player cards with their stats and tournament achievements based on color
That's the wrong stream though. This is OSL, not GSL. OGN hosts this. They produce this and they arrange this.
Also they have this fun korean show in breaks and after the broadcast with GoRush and TheMarine and Carrier and various gamers doing fun stuff.
Actually it's WCS kr and gom has the better production,better observer etc.
How can an empty studio casting a feed be a better production?
And it's actually both WCS kr and OSL.
Because the casters are better for instant.
Doa and MonteCristo deserve a shot, they are actually really good casters. Personally I watch OGN stream for OGN production and Gom stream for Gom production. Seems only fair. And I feel bad for OGN that their production get 1/3 of the viewers of the production that is simply casting their feed in an empty studio.
When it's the OSL, I watch the OGN stream. When it's the GSL, I watch the Gom stream. Although I'll often have the other open and switch back and forth occasionally just to see what the other casters are saying. I think that a lot of people just aren't willing to give Doa and Montecristo a chance since they're used to Tastosis.
On July 16 2013 19:38 XaCez wrote: Cards? What cards? When did SC2 turn into a TCG?
I have no clue what they're talking about.
On the gom stream they have player cards with their stats and tournament achievements based on color
That's the wrong stream though. This is OSL, not GSL. OGN hosts this. They produce this and they arrange this.
Also they have this fun korean show in breaks and after the broadcast with GoRush and TheMarine and Carrier and various gamers doing fun stuff.
Actually it's WCS kr and gom has the better production,better observer etc.
How can an empty studio casting a feed be a better production?
And it's actually both WCS kr and OSL.
Because the casters are better for instant.
Doa and MonteCristo deserve a shot, they are actually really good casters. Personally I watch OGN stream for OGN production and Gom stream for Gom production. Seems only fair. And I feel bad for OGN that their production get 1/3 of the viewers of the production that is simply casting their feed in an empty studio.
Me too... they should just not do the other streams. I hope this situation does not exist anymore next year...
On July 16 2013 19:38 XaCez wrote: Cards? What cards? When did SC2 turn into a TCG?
I have no clue what they're talking about.
On the gom stream they have player cards with their stats and tournament achievements based on color
That's the wrong stream though. This is OSL, not GSL. OGN hosts this. They produce this and they arrange this.
Also they have this fun korean show in breaks and after the broadcast with GoRush and TheMarine and Carrier and various gamers doing fun stuff.
they also have annoying big black bars on the stream if you go full-screen and their observer is worse
The bars are gone
oh yes, they are. Well, I'll tune in to some OGN stream from time to time then. Problem is, I have the stream muted most of the time so I don't actually care for the casters that much. And with Gom having the better Observer I'll probably still watch Gom most of the time
At least I suggest you hop over to OGN stream during breaks. Fun variety shows!
yeah, will do that if I actually have time. You know, I'm learning for exams during all of this, that's why I have casters muted and just look at the stream from time to time
On July 16 2013 19:38 XaCez wrote: Cards? What cards? When did SC2 turn into a TCG?
I have no clue what they're talking about.
On the gom stream they have player cards with their stats and tournament achievements based on color
That's the wrong stream though. This is OSL, not GSL. OGN hosts this. They produce this and they arrange this.
Also they have this fun korean show in breaks and after the broadcast with GoRush and TheMarine and Carrier and various gamers doing fun stuff.
Actually it's WCS kr and gom has the better production,better observer etc.
How can an empty studio casting a feed be a better production?
And it's actually both WCS kr and OSL.
Because the casters are better for instant.
Doa and MonteCristo deserve a shot, they are actually really good casters. Personally I watch OGN stream for OGN production and Gom stream for Gom production. Seems only fair. And I feel bad for OGN that their production get 1/3 of the viewers of the production that is simply casting their feed in an empty studio.
Me too... they should just not do the other streams. I hope this situation does not exist anymore next year...
Gom relies mostly on their Starcraft stream, though. With this WCS system in place, it's kind of unavoidable.
On July 16 2013 19:38 XaCez wrote: Cards? What cards? When did SC2 turn into a TCG?
I have no clue what they're talking about.
On the gom stream they have player cards with their stats and tournament achievements based on color
That's the wrong stream though. This is OSL, not GSL. OGN hosts this. They produce this and they arrange this.
Also they have this fun korean show in breaks and after the broadcast with GoRush and TheMarine and Carrier and various gamers doing fun stuff.
they also have annoying big black bars on the stream if you go full-screen and their observer is worse
The bars are gone
oh yes, they are. Well, I'll tune in to some OGN stream from time to time then. Problem is, I have the stream muted most of the time so I don't actually care for the casters that much. And with Gom having the better Observer I'll probably still watch Gom most of the time
At least I suggest you hop over to OGN stream during breaks. Fun variety shows!
yeah, will do that if I actually have time. You know, I'm learning for exams during all of this, that's why I have casters muted and just look at the stream from time to time
Exams? Now? But, summer! I could never multitask like that.
On July 16 2013 19:38 XaCez wrote: Cards? What cards? When did SC2 turn into a TCG?
I have no clue what they're talking about.
On the gom stream they have player cards with their stats and tournament achievements based on color
That's the wrong stream though. This is OSL, not GSL. OGN hosts this. They produce this and they arrange this.
Also they have this fun korean show in breaks and after the broadcast with GoRush and TheMarine and Carrier and various gamers doing fun stuff.
they also have annoying big black bars on the stream if you go full-screen and their observer is worse
The bars are gone
oh yes, they are. Well, I'll tune in to some OGN stream from time to time then. Problem is, I have the stream muted most of the time so I don't actually care for the casters that much. And with Gom having the better Observer I'll probably still watch Gom most of the time
At least I suggest you hop over to OGN stream during breaks. Fun variety shows!
yeah, will do that if I actually have time. You know, I'm learning for exams during all of this, that's why I have casters muted and just look at the stream from time to time
Exams? Now? But, summer! I could never multitask like that.
I have all my exams during the semester break. Which is fine with me since we have 3 months of break and this way we only have 2 exams per week instead of all 8 crammed into one week like other people
If Hyvaa wins, he'll be 2-1 and Fantasy is automatically out. This also means for Rain to still make it, he has to beat Fantasy to get a 3way tie(Rain-First-Hyvaa). Rain has to play Fantasy next, so does that mean Fantasy throws since they are on the same team??
On July 16 2013 19:39 KristofferAG wrote: [quote] I have no clue what they're talking about.
On the gom stream they have player cards with their stats and tournament achievements based on color
That's the wrong stream though. This is OSL, not GSL. OGN hosts this. They produce this and they arrange this.
Also they have this fun korean show in breaks and after the broadcast with GoRush and TheMarine and Carrier and various gamers doing fun stuff.
they also have annoying big black bars on the stream if you go full-screen and their observer is worse
The bars are gone
oh yes, they are. Well, I'll tune in to some OGN stream from time to time then. Problem is, I have the stream muted most of the time so I don't actually care for the casters that much. And with Gom having the better Observer I'll probably still watch Gom most of the time
At least I suggest you hop over to OGN stream during breaks. Fun variety shows!
yeah, will do that if I actually have time. You know, I'm learning for exams during all of this, that's why I have casters muted and just look at the stream from time to time
Exams? Now? But, summer! I could never multitask like that.
I have all my exams during the semester break. Which is fine with me since we have 3 months of break and this way we only have 2 exams per week instead of all 8 crammed into one week like other people
Jesus, 8 exams
That's gotta be breaking some human rights law or something. I had 3 during Christmas and 3 for the summer.
On July 16 2013 19:59 Thrillz wrote: Something interesting to note:
If Hyvaa wins, he'll be 2-1 and Fantasy is automatically out. This also means for Rain to still make it, he has to beat Fantasy to get a 3way tie(Rain-First-Hyvaa). Rain has to play Fantasy next, so does that mean Fantasy throws since they are on the same team??
i already brought this up before, fantasy won't just " let him win " (probably) but he'll play casually and rain will easily win the series.
it could have been easily solved by making rain and fantasy play first because then fantasy would have to try hard no matter what.
On July 16 2013 19:40 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: [quote]
On the gom stream they have player cards with their stats and tournament achievements based on color
That's the wrong stream though. This is OSL, not GSL. OGN hosts this. They produce this and they arrange this.
Also they have this fun korean show in breaks and after the broadcast with GoRush and TheMarine and Carrier and various gamers doing fun stuff.
they also have annoying big black bars on the stream if you go full-screen and their observer is worse
The bars are gone
oh yes, they are. Well, I'll tune in to some OGN stream from time to time then. Problem is, I have the stream muted most of the time so I don't actually care for the casters that much. And with Gom having the better Observer I'll probably still watch Gom most of the time
At least I suggest you hop over to OGN stream during breaks. Fun variety shows!
yeah, will do that if I actually have time. You know, I'm learning for exams during all of this, that's why I have casters muted and just look at the stream from time to time
Exams? Now? But, summer! I could never multitask like that.
I have all my exams during the semester break. Which is fine with me since we have 3 months of break and this way we only have 2 exams per week instead of all 8 crammed into one week like other people
Jesus, 8 exams
That's gotta be breaking some human rights law or something. I had 3 during Christmas and 3 for the summer.
wtf? I have between 5 and 8 exams every semester... that's not fair T.T
On July 16 2013 20:02 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Damn First played extremely well from behind, too bad :/
Yeah his decision to go for the attack, defend with stalkers, and then meet the stalkers with his army was a great idea. If he had built a pylon in the middle of his army he would have won.
He had DTs in the army and was warping in Stalkers in his base to snipe overseers.
Im going Hyvaa for WCS Korea champ, cus everyone seems to go full retard when playing him, this guy always cheese let me go nexus first and not scout $$$
Hyvaa next level zerg. Why play standard games when cheesing kills off your opponent before his standard game beats yours? Nothing wrong with cheese tbh.
this puts Fantasy in a horrible position btw. he's gonna be accused of throwing the match against Rain no matter what he does, unless he wins which would suck for Rain and therefore for his own team...
On July 16 2013 20:14 Schelim wrote: this puts Fantasy in a horrible position btw. he's gonna be accused of throwing the match against Rain no matter what he does, unless he wins which would suck for Rain and therefore for his own team...
they could have just played rain vs fantasy first but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
On July 16 2013 20:13 nimdil wrote: Now convince me that Fantasy will try 100% hard to win against Rain.
EDIT: Does sets results actually matter at all or they are completely irrelevant?
this might be one of those situations where he kind of has to almost try hard, because literally every starcraft fan in the world is going to watch for the throw. don't want to tempt dem kespa referees, fanta.
On July 16 2013 20:14 Schelim wrote: this puts Fantasy in a horrible position btw. he's gonna be accused of throwing the match against Rain no matter what he does, unless he wins which would suck for Rain and therefore for his own team...
On July 16 2013 20:14 Schelim wrote: this puts Fantasy in a horrible position btw. he's gonna be accused of throwing the match against Rain no matter what he does, unless he wins which would suck for Rain and therefore for his own team...
Theory: Fantasy and Rain agrees on the throw. But Fantasy will "win" one game so it doesn't look like a throw, of course for the last game they will have a pre-agreed and planned out game for Rain to win.
On July 16 2013 20:13 nimdil wrote: Now convince me that Fantasy will try 100% hard to win against Rain.
EDIT: Does sets results actually matter at all or they are completely irrelevant?
this might be one of those situations where he kind of has to almost try hard, because literally every starcraft fan in the world is going to watch for the throw. don't want to tempt dem kespa referees, fanta.
How could anyone know it was a throw unless he goes full Naniwa? He could just die to 2-3 random storms. Entirely possible and plausible in late game TvP. + it already happened in his games against First.
On July 16 2013 20:14 Schelim wrote: this puts Fantasy in a horrible position btw. he's gonna be accused of throwing the match against Rain no matter what he does, unless he wins which would suck for Rain and therefore for his own team...
Theory: Fantasy and Rain agrees on the throw. But Fantasy will "win" one game so it doesn't look like a throw, of course for the last game they will have a pre-agreed and planned out game for Rain to win.
Proxy Oracle that Fantasy accidentally scouts and then reacts to, killing Rain hahahah
On July 16 2013 20:16 MrSalamandra wrote: If Rain wins 2-0 against Fantasy, he's still down in map score compared to First and hyvaa. Would there be a tiebreaker anyway?
On July 16 2013 20:16 MrSalamandra wrote: If Rain wins 2-0 against Fantasy, he's still down in map score compared to First and hyvaa. Would there be a tiebreaker anyway?
Yes.
On July 16 2013 20:16 Pistoche wrote: If it's a 3-way tie in win-loss, do they look at map score?
On July 16 2013 20:14 Schelim wrote: this puts Fantasy in a horrible position btw. he's gonna be accused of throwing the match against Rain no matter what he does, unless he wins which would suck for Rain and therefore for his own team...
they could have just played rain vs fantasy first but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
On July 16 2013 20:14 Schelim wrote: this puts Fantasy in a horrible position btw. he's gonna be accused of throwing the match against Rain no matter what he does, unless he wins which would suck for Rain and therefore for his own team...
Theory: Fantasy and Rain agrees on the throw. But Fantasy will "win" one game so it doesn't look like a throw, of course for the last game they will have a pre-agreed and planned out game for Rain to win.
^Not convincing at all, Thrillz. XD Not on its own. They really need FanTaSy to look very good in all the games, at least, that more than the result even. Hopefully we see a very good series (even if RIGGED! + Show Spoiler +
On July 16 2013 20:16 MrSalamandra wrote: If Rain wins 2-0 against Fantasy, he's still down in map score compared to First and hyvaa. Would there be a tiebreaker anyway?
On July 16 2013 20:19 Arceus wrote: fantasy will throw. If I was fantasy I would throw. If you were fantasy, you would throw too whats the discussion here?
On July 16 2013 20:19 Arceus wrote: fantasy will throw. If I was fantasy I would throw. If you were fantasy, you would throw too whats the discussion here?
Sportsmanship and Integrity
You realize it's a team sport right? I dont like it (i'm a fantasy fan) but I can see it.
On July 16 2013 20:19 Arceus wrote: fantasy will throw. If I was fantasy I would throw. If you were fantasy, you would throw too whats the discussion here?
the discussion here is they should have played team kills first so this situation never happens, GOM always does that in up/downs.
On July 16 2013 20:16 MrSalamandra wrote: If Rain wins 2-0 against Fantasy, he's still down in map score compared to First and hyvaa. Would there be a tiebreaker anyway?
Yes.
On July 16 2013 20:16 Pistoche wrote: If it's a 3-way tie in win-loss, do they look at map score?
No.
Sometimes I swear people don't read up on it before asking.
All in all this makes for an interesting last week.
On July 16 2013 20:14 Schelim wrote: this puts Fantasy in a horrible position btw. he's gonna be accused of throwing the match against Rain no matter what he does, unless he wins which would suck for Rain and therefore for his own team...
Not sure why OGN has such a bad structure. BO1's, spreading out the matches so it's hard to know who's going through in which group etc and also not using GSL-style group format.
Obviously there's no chance Fantasy won't give the match to Rain.
On July 16 2013 20:19 Arceus wrote: fantasy will throw. If I was fantasy I would throw. If you were fantasy, you would throw too whats the discussion here?
the discussion here is they should have played team kills first so this situation never happens, GOM always does that in up/downs.
It's really that simple, this situation can be avoided entirely.
No one can really make the claim that Fantasy is "sure to throw" just because they are team mates. They may be team mates but they are still rivals in individual leagues. Being teammates also does not assure that they are good friends. You hear about players practicing with players from other teams and being really friendly with players on rival teams all the time. How would you ever know that it isn't a throw, unless you investigate all the player relationships? It might happen, but from our perspective it is all just meaningless speculation.
On July 16 2013 20:19 Arceus wrote: fantasy will throw. If I was fantasy I would throw. If you were fantasy, you would throw too whats the discussion here?
Sportsmanship and Integrity
You realize it's a team sport right? I dont like it (i'm a fantasy fan) but I can see it.
On July 16 2013 20:19 Arceus wrote: fantasy will throw. If I was fantasy I would throw. If you were fantasy, you would throw too whats the discussion here?
Sportsmanship and Integrity
You realize it's a team sport right? I dont like it (i'm a fantasy fan) but I can see it.
Maybe FantasY is thinking of joining KT Rolster, and will pull some nWo Pro Wrestling style shit and turn on the fans
On July 16 2013 20:21 lichter wrote: No one can really make the claim that Fantasy is "sure to throw" just because they are team mates. They may be team mates but they are still rivals in individual leagues. Being teammates also does not assure that they are good friends. You hear about players practicing with players from other teams and being really friendly with players on rival teams all the time. How would you ever know that it isn't a throw, unless you investigate all the player relationships? It might happen, but from our perspective it is all just meaningless speculation.
It will happen 100%, because it's for the good of the team that rain has a chance in tiebreakers and boxer will tell fantasy to lose.
On July 16 2013 20:19 Arceus wrote: fantasy will throw. If I was fantasy I would throw. If you were fantasy, you would throw too whats the discussion here?
Sportsmanship and Integrity
You realize it's a team sport right? I dont like it (i'm a fantasy fan) but I can see it.
Maybe FantasY is thinking of joining KT Rolster, and will pull some nWo Pro Wrestling style shit and turn on the fans
Lol that would be interesting but I'm not sure how i'd feel about Fanta on kt...
On July 16 2013 20:19 Arceus wrote: fantasy will throw. If I was fantasy I would throw. If you were fantasy, you would throw too whats the discussion here?
the discussion here is they should have played team kills first so this situation never happens, GOM always does that in up/downs.
It's really that simple, this situation can be avoided entirely.
There are other considerations with scheduling, with Proleague/GSTL going on, and even things like MLG, though that didn't affect this group.
On July 16 2013 20:19 Arceus wrote: fantasy will throw. If I was fantasy I would throw. If you were fantasy, you would throw too whats the discussion here?
Sportsmanship and Integrity
You realize it's a team sport right? I dont like it (i'm a fantasy fan) but I can see it.
Maybe FantasY is thinking of joining KT Rolster, and will pull some nWo Pro Wrestling style shit and turn on the fans
Lol that would be interesting but I'm not sure how i'd feel about Fanta on kt...
On July 16 2013 20:21 lichter wrote: No one can really make the claim that Fantasy is "sure to throw" just because they are team mates. They may be team mates but they are still rivals in individual leagues. Being teammates also does not assure that they are good friends. You hear about players practicing with players from other teams and being really friendly with players on rival teams all the time. How would you ever know that it isn't a throw, unless you investigate all the player relationships? It might happen, but from our perspective it is all just meaningless speculation.
WCS points are worth more than teammate friendship.
On July 16 2013 20:19 Arceus wrote: fantasy will throw. If I was fantasy I would throw. If you were fantasy, you would throw too whats the discussion here?
the discussion here is they should have played team kills first so this situation never happens, GOM always does that in up/downs.
It's really that simple, this situation can be avoided entirely.
There are other considerations with scheduling, with Proleague/GSTL going on, and even things like MLG, though that didn't affect this group.
On July 16 2013 20:19 Arceus wrote: fantasy will throw. If I was fantasy I would throw. If you were fantasy, you would throw too whats the discussion here?
the discussion here is they should have played team kills first so this situation never happens, GOM always does that in up/downs.
It's really that simple, this situation can be avoided entirely.
There are other considerations with scheduling, with Proleague/GSTL going on, and even things like MLG, though that didn't affect this group.
Proleague/GSTL shouldn't be an issue, if they have to train harder for one or the other should be second to the integrity of the OSL imo
On July 16 2013 20:23 hifriend wrote: stop saying fantasy will "throw", there's no way that's going to happen lol
doesnt matter. ur format should make it so it could never happen. Remeber soulkey last wcs.. he gave some games away to a teammate, ofcourse really nice of him... but it should not happen.
On July 16 2013 20:22 govie wrote: OSL format is broken format.. just like the pennyflip of DH. also broken. Just go winners/losers... solves everything.
Tiebreakers also solve everything. And we get mroe games.. It's actually win/win format :p (the thing with teammates sucks though)
On July 16 2013 20:21 lichter wrote: No one can really make the claim that Fantasy is "sure to throw" just because they are team mates. They may be team mates but they are still rivals in individual leagues. Being teammates also does not assure that they are good friends. You hear about players practicing with players from other teams and being really friendly with players on rival teams all the time. How would you ever know that it isn't a throw, unless you investigate all the player relationships? It might happen, but from our perspective it is all just meaningless speculation.
It will happen 100%, because it's for the good of the team that rain has a chance in tiebreakers and boxer will tell fantasy to lose.
Yes but if we become suspicious of that match (and we have reason to be), then we should be suspicious of all matches between friendly players. I'm not defending the format, because it really is shit (although I understand the necessity for it due to the scheduling on TV), but we can't just assume 100% that if Fantasy loses he threw the match.
This is the biggest problem with this round robin format. If Fanta loses, it will always feel like a throw for viewers. If Fanta wins, he screws his teammate and friend over. No win situation.
On July 16 2013 20:21 lichter wrote: No one can really make the claim that Fantasy is "sure to throw" just because they are team mates. They may be team mates but they are still rivals in individual leagues. Being teammates also does not assure that they are good friends. You hear about players practicing with players from other teams and being really friendly with players on rival teams all the time. How would you ever know that it isn't a throw, unless you investigate all the player relationships? It might happen, but from our perspective it is all just meaningless speculation.
Yeah no, Fantasy will throw because it's what almost everyone would do given the team situation.
Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
On July 16 2013 20:21 lichter wrote: No one can really make the claim that Fantasy is "sure to throw" just because they are team mates. They may be team mates but they are still rivals in individual leagues. Being teammates also does not assure that they are good friends. You hear about players practicing with players from other teams and being really friendly with players on rival teams all the time. How would you ever know that it isn't a throw, unless you investigate all the player relationships? It might happen, but from our perspective it is all just meaningless speculation.
It will happen 100%, because it's for the good of the team that rain has a chance in tiebreakers and boxer will tell fantasy to lose.
Yes but if we become suspicious of that match (and we have reason to be), then we should be suspicious of all matches between friendly players. I'm not defending the format, because it really is shit (although I understand the necessity for it due to the scheduling on TV), but we can't just assume 100% that if Fantasy loses he threw the match.
This is the biggest problem with this round robin format. If Fanta loses, it will always feel like a throw for viewers. If Fanta wins, he screws his teammate and friend over. No win situation.
well, personally I'm sometimes suspicious of situations that happen in the up/downs, we don't really use round robin anywhere else. if the past has taught us anything It's that stuff like that does happen.
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
On July 16 2013 20:21 lichter wrote: No one can really make the claim that Fantasy is "sure to throw" just because they are team mates. They may be team mates but they are still rivals in individual leagues. Being teammates also does not assure that they are good friends. You hear about players practicing with players from other teams and being really friendly with players on rival teams all the time. How would you ever know that it isn't a throw, unless you investigate all the player relationships? It might happen, but from our perspective it is all just meaningless speculation.
well, I'm thinking: what would I do in that situation? And my answer is: I would throw the game (or rather: not play 100%), even if I didn't like my teammate, he's still my teammate.
Not saying that Fantasy will do that, he's a professional player and I'm not, so we can't tell what exactly will happen. I think he won't exactly throw it by doing a BC-rush or something like that but he'll most likely not play his best, not take it too serious
On July 16 2013 20:19 Arceus wrote: fantasy will throw. If I was fantasy I would throw. If you were fantasy, you would throw too whats the discussion here?
the discussion here is they should have played team kills first so this situation never happens, GOM always does that in up/downs.
1. Order of play is determined by the score of week 1 2. If Rain vs Fantasy was played first and terran won, would First just throw as well? (and First actually has more motive had he wanted to avoid Maru) I know being teammate has some effect but people are just gonna whine
I just wish concessions were legal and socially accepted (like in magic: the gathering), or that the format avoided meaningless matches altogether. There is no good outcome in Rain x Fantasy having to play in this scenario.
On July 16 2013 20:21 lichter wrote: No one can really make the claim that Fantasy is "sure to throw" just because they are team mates. They may be team mates but they are still rivals in individual leagues. Being teammates also does not assure that they are good friends. You hear about players practicing with players from other teams and being really friendly with players on rival teams all the time. How would you ever know that it isn't a throw, unless you investigate all the player relationships? It might happen, but from our perspective it is all just meaningless speculation.
It will happen 100%, because it's for the good of the team that rain has a chance in tiebreakers and boxer will tell fantasy to lose.
Yes but if we become suspicious of that match (and we have reason to be), then we should be suspicious of all matches between friendly players. I'm not defending the format, because it really is shit (although I understand the necessity for it due to the scheduling on TV), but we can't just assume 100% that if Fantasy loses he threw the match.
This is the biggest problem with this round robin format. If Fanta loses, it will always feel like a throw for viewers. If Fanta wins, he screws his teammate and friend over. No win situation.
well, personally I'm sometimes suspicious of situations that happen in the up/downs, we don't really use round robin anywhere else. if the past has taught us anything It's that stuff like that does happen.
I'm still sad Byun won 2 tvzs by proxy raxing, then played straight up against Symbol and lost.. made Symbol go through instead of Jaedong a few seasons back
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
Wow
I think Boxer would be the one to tell fantasy he needs to find a way to let rain win, It's his job to ensure the success of his team. you put him on too high or a moral pedestal, the team will look after itself before anything else.
On July 16 2013 20:23 Daralii wrote: Shots fired from Tasteless. Damn.
Missing this. Yet again. What happened. You make it sound so dramatic
On cheese: "Well some people say 'Oh, but the game isn't supposed to be played this way.' And I'm just like, I'm pretty sure the game was designed so people try to win."
On July 16 2013 20:21 lichter wrote: No one can really make the claim that Fantasy is "sure to throw" just because they are team mates. They may be team mates but they are still rivals in individual leagues. Being teammates also does not assure that they are good friends. You hear about players practicing with players from other teams and being really friendly with players on rival teams all the time. How would you ever know that it isn't a throw, unless you investigate all the player relationships? It might happen, but from our perspective it is all just meaningless speculation.
Yeah no, Fantasy will throw because it's what almost everyone would do given the team situation.
I am not speculating whether it will or won't happen. I guess we might be able to tell once we see the games. My main point is that the format creates suspicion for all meaningless-for-one-person games, and that there are more reasons to be suspicious than just 'they are teammates' (for example, because they are good friends). Whether Fantasy throws or not is irrelevant; we can never tell for sure unless he makes it obvious.
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
Wow
It's not necessarily that he will lose on purpose, or that they will coordinate a fixed match, but Fantasy might try some funny builds that have low success rate, or maybe the opposite, play super standard that he knows Rain does well against, and play his best within that decision but the initial decision being designed to give Rain the best shot
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
Wow
People like drama
No, they're idiots who would happily throw accusations of match fixing at progamers.
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
Wow
I think Boxer would be the one to tell fantasy he needs to find a way to let rain win, It's his job to ensure the success of his team. you put him on too high or a moral pedestal, the team will look after itself before anything else.
I think the best thing to do is not put the players or teams in this position at all.
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
Wow
he is not going to roll over and die but im sure he wont put in the same preparation and effort he would if he was facing a non-teammate. And that is enough when you are att the level of play that these guys are. Nobody is blaming fantasy from what i can see, we are just saying the the format is bad and could have been fixed.
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
Wow
I think Boxer would be the one to tell fantasy he needs to find a way to let rain win, It's his job to ensure the success of his team. you put him on too high or a moral pedestal, the team will look after itself before anything else.
I think the best thing to do is not put the players or teams in this position at all.
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
Wow
It's not necessarily that he will lose on purpose, or that they will coordinate a fixed match, but Fantasy might try some funny builds that have low success rate, or maybe the opposite, play super standard that he knows Rain does well against, and play his best within that decision but the initial decision being designed to give Rain the best shot
Mmm, i think that would be the most honourable way to try to encourage a result without at al fixing it.
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
Wow
It's not necessarily that he will lose on purpose, or that they will coordinate a fixed match, but Fantasy might try some funny builds that have low success rate, or maybe the opposite, play super standard that he knows Rain does well against, and play his best within that decision but the initial decision being designed to give Rain the best show.
He could even do things like not practice vs toss all week, nothing really wrong with not preparing well.
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
Wow
I think Boxer would be the one to tell fantasy he needs to find a way to let rain win, It's his job to ensure the success of his team. you put him on too high or a moral pedestal, the team will look after itself before anything else.
I think the best thing to do is not put the players or teams in this position at all.
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
Wow
People like drama
No, they're idiots who would happily throw accusations of match fixing at progamers.
It's nice that you're so trusting of people after all that has happened in brood war, but It's naive.
On July 16 2013 20:23 Daralii wrote: Shots fired from Tasteless. Damn.
Missing this. Yet again. What happened. You make it sound so dramatic
On cheese: "Well some people say 'Oh, but the game isn't supposed to be played this way.' And I'm just like, I'm pretty sure the game was designed so people try to win."
Nothing dramatic, just a little targeted.
He's not wrong though. Yeah annoying to watch. But it's there for a reason
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
Wow
It's for the best of the team. I mean common you have people like Catz ffing in a far worse situation- at least one person is guaranteed through. If fantasy wins here, both teammates are eliminated.
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
Wow
Call it whatever you want, but Rain will win that match 100%.
From what i see, there absolutely will not be throws. Make rain train extra hard for the snipe, make fantasy train harder to win even still. A rivalry doesn't hurt and if rain is unable to win, he doesn't deserve to do so. The idea is to get better as players and your organization/fans will recognize the games especially since it seems that they will throw for sure.
Think about what it would mean to SKT if fantasy vs rain in BO3 produced the best games of starcraft2:hots yet. I highly doubt that boxer as a coach and the coaching staff at SKT1 are so shortsighted as to just think of what's good in this situation for the short term.
On July 16 2013 20:21 lichter wrote: No one can really make the claim that Fantasy is "sure to throw" just because they are team mates. They may be team mates but they are still rivals in individual leagues. Being teammates also does not assure that they are good friends. You hear about players practicing with players from other teams and being really friendly with players on rival teams all the time. How would you ever know that it isn't a throw, unless you investigate all the player relationships? It might happen, but from our perspective it is all just meaningless speculation.
well, I'm thinking: what would I do in that situation? And my answer is: I would throw the game (or rather: not play 100%), even if I didn't like my teammate, he's still my teammate.
Not saying that Fantasy will do that, he's a professional player and I'm not, so we can't tell what exactly will happen. I think he won't exactly throw it by doing a BC-rush or something like that but he'll most likely not play his best, not take it too serious
Well I've been in similar situations before as a team (no direct financial gain except material prizes and some benefits), and let me tell you, we would never throw a game. Of course my experience may be completely different from these pros. Again, we can't tell for sure. Assuming they'd throw just because they are teammates is tantamount to accusing them of matchfixing or poor sportsmanship.
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
Wow
I think Boxer would be the one to tell fantasy he needs to find a way to let rain win, It's his job to ensure the success of his team. you put him on too high or a moral pedestal, the team will look after itself before anything else.
You know you've reached a low point when the community suspects that Slayers Boxer would encourage match fixing.
Jesus people, this isn't the first time we've had a team kill. God damn, always assuming the worst.
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
Wow
I think Boxer would be the one to tell fantasy he needs to find a way to let rain win, It's his job to ensure the success of his team. you put him on too high or a moral pedestal, the team will look after itself before anything else.
You know you've reached a low point when the community suspects that Slayers Boxer would encourage match fixing.
Jesus people, this isn't the first time we've had a team kill. God damn, always assuming the worst.
We've had teamkills with one player advancing over the other. Not sure if we've had an already eliminated player possibly knocking out a teammate.
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
Wow
I think Boxer would be the one to tell fantasy he needs to find a way to let rain win, It's his job to ensure the success of his team. you put him on too high or a moral pedestal, the team will look after itself before anything else.
You know you've reached a low point when the community suspects that Slayers Boxer would encourage match fixing.
Jesus people, this isn't the first time we've had a team kill. God damn, always assuming the worst.
We've had teamkills with one player advancing over the other. Not sure if we've had an already eliminated player possibly knocking out a teammate.
With all the competition we have had with BW and SC2, it has happened.
NO WAY imo fantasy plays to lose. But there could be team orders of sorts thats what I worry about. Hope we see a good series and I think it will be fair.
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
Wow
I think Boxer would be the one to tell fantasy he needs to find a way to let rain win, It's his job to ensure the success of his team. you put him on too high or a moral pedestal, the team will look after itself before anything else.
You know you've reached a low point when the community suspects that Slayers Boxer would encourage match fixing.
Jesus people, this isn't the first time we've had a team kill. God damn, always assuming the worst.
We've had teamkills with one player advancing over the other. Not sure if we've had an already eliminated player possibly knocking out a teammate.
With all the competition we have had with BW and SC2, it has happened.
Well, that depends on how many tournaments use such a blatantly dumb format. Honestly, formatwise this OSL has been horribad.
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
Wow
People like drama
No, they're idiots who would happily throw accusations of match fixing at progamers.
It's nice that you're so trusting of people after all that has happened in brood war, but It's naive.
It may be silly to trust, but without that trust there wouldn't be a SC2 scene. I'm going to take a leap of faith. savior's crime does not implicate all progamers. Many of them are guiltless, and we shouldn't treat them like match fixers.
It isn't whether he will play to win or play to lose... of course he will play to win in the game, but he might choose builds that aren't the most difficult for Rain or not prepare very hard beforehand.
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
Wow
People like drama
No, they're idiots who would happily throw accusations of match fixing at progamers.
It's nice that you're so trusting of people after all that has happened in brood war, but It's naive.
It may be silly to trust, but without that trust there wouldn't be a SC2 scene. I'm going to take a leap of faith. savior's crime does not implicate all progamers. Many of them are guiltless, and we shouldn't treat them like match fixers.
there's a moral difference between match fixing and just not giving a 100% in a game against a teammate where you are already out but your mate can still advance
I'm seeing it that basically Fantasy doesn't worry too much about the game. Not that he'll throw it, but he wouldn't try his best. And that might not be a practice thing, but a mental thing. Just knowing that your teammate will fail if you do well means that his heart won't be in it. That and the fact that the game means little to nothing for him.
No need to use "throw" when talking about this situation. For rain to win 99% of the time its enough that he is 100% motivated to win and prepare and practice while fantasy would rather not be in this situation at all. Thats enough at this level to be sure that of the outcome of the game. Fantasy will not lose the game because he "throws" it but because of the format. I hope you get my point ^^
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
Wow
People like drama
No, they're idiots who would happily throw accusations of match fixing at progamers.
It's nice that you're so trusting of people after all that has happened in brood war, but It's naive.
It may be silly to trust, but without that trust there wouldn't be a SC2 scene. I'm going to take a leap of faith. savior's crime does not implicate all progamers. Many of them are guiltless, and we shouldn't treat them like match fixers.
there's a moral difference between match fixing and just not giving a 100% in a game against a teammate where you are already out but your mate can still advance
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
Wow
People like drama
No, they're idiots who would happily throw accusations of match fixing at progamers.
It's nice that you're so trusting of people after all that has happened in brood war, but It's naive.
It may be silly to trust, but without that trust there wouldn't be a SC2 scene. I'm going to take a leap of faith. savior's crime does not implicate all progamers. Many of them are guiltless, and we shouldn't treat them like match fixers.
there's a moral difference between match fixing and just not giving a 100% in a game against a teammate where you are already out but your mate can still advance
I agree that for Fantasy there is a difference.
But do you think everyone on TL will care? If fantasy plays even slightly poorly everyone will accuse him of throwing the match for Rain.
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
Wow
I think Boxer would be the one to tell fantasy he needs to find a way to let rain win, It's his job to ensure the success of his team. you put him on too high or a moral pedestal, the team will look after itself before anything else.
You know you've reached a low point when the community suspects that Slayers Boxer would encourage match fixing.
Jesus people, this isn't the first time we've had a team kill. God damn, always assuming the worst.
We've had teamkills with one player advancing over the other. Not sure if we've had an already eliminated player possibly knocking out a teammate.
With all the competition we have had with BW and SC2, it has happened.
Well, that depends on how many tournaments use such a blatantly dumb format. Honestly, formatwise this OSL has been horribad.
I sort of have to agree. Though round robin is nice to think about, it's pretty bad on paper since it can have useless matches. Hence 6 probe rush Naniwa and what not.
It's not like GSL use winner and loser matches just "because". It still makes more sense than most other group formats. imo
On July 16 2013 20:41 StarscreamG1 wrote: Protoss is such a bad race despite the OP all-ins. Such a bad concept.
It was more about trap being on the map while Supernova's army was already on the move. Storms failed, all colossus went down without doing any damage to bio...
On July 16 2013 20:16 Pistoche wrote: If it's a 3-way tie in win-loss, do they look at map score?
Liquipedia says ties are broken with a bo1 on the last day
I guess someone influential over at KeSPA has a real hard-on for best-of-one formats...
On the Fantasy topic, I don't think that he needs to throw because he is nowhere near as good as Rain.
I think rain said that he couldn't beat fantasy in practice?
Practice is one thing, live matches another. Always hear about players that "rank high in in-house tournaments" but fail completely when it comes to the real thing.
On July 16 2013 20:16 Pistoche wrote: If it's a 3-way tie in win-loss, do they look at map score?
Liquipedia says ties are broken with a bo1 on the last day
I guess someone influential over at KeSPA has a real hard-on for best-of-one formats...
On the Fantasy topic, I don't think that he needs to throw because he is nowhere near as good as Rain.
I think rain said that he couldn't beat fantasy in practice?
FanTaSy at his best is pretty good but he's barely been near that most of the time. Not consistent enough in SC2, or at least not in HotS. On the other hand, Rain has been getting torn apart recently (though mainly in PvP). "Who is better" isn't so simple, let alone so one-sided. That's not to say the result is guaranteed NOT to be one sided.
I really don't like that map. Might as well cut out the top left and bottom right quadrants, because they're almost never used. It's basically just a corridor. :/
On July 16 2013 20:41 StarscreamG1 wrote: Protoss is such a bad race despite the OP all-ins. Such a bad concept.
It was more about trap being on the map while Supernova's army was already on the move. Storms failed, all colossus went down without doing any damage to bio...
His post had nothing to do with the game, and he isn't wrong. Most people don't like protoss' design.
On July 16 2013 20:16 Pistoche wrote: If it's a 3-way tie in win-loss, do they look at map score?
Liquipedia says ties are broken with a bo1 on the last day
I guess someone influential over at KeSPA has a real hard-on for best-of-one formats...
On the Fantasy topic, I don't think that he needs to throw because he is nowhere near as good as Rain.
I think rain said that he couldn't beat fantasy in practice?
Practice is one thing, live matches another. Always hear about players that "rank high in in-house tournaments" but fail completely when it comes to the real thing.
Well the way Rain has been playing lately, I dont think he can beat Fanta.
supernova played like a god there, making a seemingly standard and unimportant move such as killing an obs and then pouncing unseen before storm was done, quite awesome.
On July 16 2013 20:41 StarscreamG1 wrote: Protoss is such a bad race despite the OP all-ins. Such a bad concept.
It was more about trap being on the map while Supernova's army was already on the move. Storms failed, all colossus went down without doing any damage to bio...
His post had nothing to do with the game, and he isn't wrong. Most people don't like protoss' design.
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
Wow
People like drama
No, they're idiots who would happily throw accusations of match fixing at progamers.
It's nice that you're so trusting of people after all that has happened in brood war, but It's naive.
It may be silly to trust, but without that trust there wouldn't be a SC2 scene. I'm going to take a leap of faith. savior's crime does not implicate all progamers. Many of them are guiltless, and we shouldn't treat them like match fixers.
there's a moral difference between match fixing and just not giving a 100% in a game against a teammate where you are already out but your mate can still advance
I agree that for Fantasy there is a difference.
But do you think everyone on TL will care? If fantasy plays even slightly poorly everyone will accuse him of throwing the match for Rain.
Of course there will be negativity and accusations, that's how LR threads are. Just one small step above Twitch-chat and sometimes even equally bad. But we also have people here who see the difference and understand the situation, some of them already posted that.
On July 16 2013 20:41 StarscreamG1 wrote: Protoss is such a bad race despite the OP all-ins. Such a bad concept.
It was more about trap being on the map while Supernova's army was already on the move. Storms failed, all colossus went down without doing any damage to bio...
It wouldnt make a difference. Protoss skill ceiling is too low. Supernova didnt even have to split or make a concave..
On July 16 2013 20:16 Pistoche wrote: If it's a 3-way tie in win-loss, do they look at map score?
Liquipedia says ties are broken with a bo1 on the last day
I guess someone influential over at KeSPA has a real hard-on for best-of-one formats...
On the Fantasy topic, I don't think that he needs to throw because he is nowhere near as good as Rain.
I think rain said that he couldn't beat fantasy in practice?
FanTaSy at his best is pretty good but he's barely been near that most of the time. Not consistent enough in SC2, or at least not in HotS. On the other hand, Rain has been getting torn apart recently (though mainly in PvP). "Who is better" isn't so simple, let alone so one-sided. That's not to say the result is guaranteed NOT to be one sided.
well my point was more "fanta can beat rain" and less "fanta will beat rain". I just wanted to disprove the guy i answered to, since he said that fanta can't beat rain in any possible scenario.
On July 16 2013 20:44 fuzzylogic44 wrote: From Twitch chat:
"Xjesta: i have absolutely no idea whats going on, but its doa and monte so i watch lol"
Doa and Monte casting SC2 is a good thing.
on the other hand, we have proleague, someone respected in the scene REALLY needs to man up and tell kespa what's up and why they have such little viewer counts all the time.
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
Wow
People like drama
No, they're idiots who would happily throw accusations of match fixing at progamers.
It's nice that you're so trusting of people after all that has happened in brood war, but It's naive.
It may be silly to trust, but without that trust there wouldn't be a SC2 scene. I'm going to take a leap of faith. savior's crime does not implicate all progamers. Many of them are guiltless, and we shouldn't treat them like match fixers.
there's a moral difference between match fixing and just not giving a 100% in a game against a teammate where you are already out but your mate can still advance
I agree that for Fantasy there is a difference.
But do you think everyone on TL will care? If fantasy plays even slightly poorly everyone will accuse him of throwing the match for Rain.
Of course there will be negativity and accusations, that's how LR threads are. Just one small step above Twitch-chat and sometimes even equally bad. But we also have people here who see the difference and understand the situation, some of them already posted that.
Fantasy will lose 100%, it just won't be obvious. Seriously this situation isn't brand new. Remember people would play crappy in WCG in BW to avoid eachother.
On July 16 2013 20:16 Pistoche wrote: If it's a 3-way tie in win-loss, do they look at map score?
Liquipedia says ties are broken with a bo1 on the last day
I guess someone influential over at KeSPA has a real hard-on for best-of-one formats...
On the Fantasy topic, I don't think that he needs to throw because he is nowhere near as good as Rain.
I think rain said that he couldn't beat fantasy in practice?
Practice is one thing, live matches another. Always hear about players that "rank high in in-house tournaments" but fail completely when it comes to the real thing.
Well the way Rain has been playing lately, I dont think he can beat Fanta.
On July 16 2013 20:41 StarscreamG1 wrote: Protoss is such a bad race despite the OP all-ins. Such a bad concept.
It was more about trap being on the map while Supernova's army was already on the move. Storms failed, all colossus went down without doing any damage to bio...
It wouldnt make a difference. Protoss skill ceiling is too low. Supernova didnt even have to split or make a concave..
Concave against what? He was chasing a retreating protoss army. And by the time he arrived to Trap's natural, there was no colosus or ht for splash damage, why would he need concave against that?
On July 16 2013 20:41 StarscreamG1 wrote: Protoss is such a bad race despite the OP all-ins. Such a bad concept.
It was more about trap being on the map while Supernova's army was already on the move. Storms failed, all colossus went down without doing any damage to bio...
It wouldnt make a difference. Protoss skill ceiling is too low. Supernova didnt even have to split or make a concave..
The skill ceiling is infinite for all races, you can always do things better.
On July 16 2013 20:41 StarscreamG1 wrote: Protoss is such a bad race despite the OP all-ins. Such a bad concept.
It was more about trap being on the map while Supernova's army was already on the move. Storms failed, all colossus went down without doing any damage to bio...
It wouldnt make a difference. Protoss skill ceiling is too low. Supernova didnt even have to split or make a concave..
The skill ceiling is infinite for all races, you can always do things better.
"Skill ceiling" still the worst balance whine in LR threads that doesn't get warnings =P
On July 16 2013 20:41 StarscreamG1 wrote: Protoss is such a bad race despite the OP all-ins. Such a bad concept.
It was more about trap being on the map while Supernova's army was already on the move. Storms failed, all colossus went down without doing any damage to bio...
It wouldnt make a difference. Protoss skill ceiling is too low. Supernova didnt even have to split or make a concave..
Concave against what? He was chasing a retreating protoss army. And by the time he arrived to Trap's natural, there was no colosus or ht for splash damage, why would he need concave against that?
I'm not saying he needed too. I'm just saying that things like that make terran skill ceiling much higher than a-move units.
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
Wow
People like drama
No, they're idiots who would happily throw accusations of match fixing at progamers.
It's nice that you're so trusting of people after all that has happened in brood war, but It's naive.
It may be silly to trust, but without that trust there wouldn't be a SC2 scene. I'm going to take a leap of faith. savior's crime does not implicate all progamers. Many of them are guiltless, and we shouldn't treat them like match fixers.
there's a moral difference between match fixing and just not giving a 100% in a game against a teammate where you are already out but your mate can still advance
I agree that for Fantasy there is a difference.
But do you think everyone on TL will care? If fantasy plays even slightly poorly everyone will accuse him of throwing the match for Rain.
Of course there will be negativity and accusations, that's how LR threads are. Just one small step above Twitch-chat and sometimes even equally bad. But we also have people here who see the difference and understand the situation, some of them already posted that.
Fantasy will lose 100%, it just won't be obvious. Seriously this situation isn't brand new. Remember people would play crappy in WCG in BW to avoid eachother.
On the flip side, if Fantasy does win, would he be a bad teammate or a good sportsman?
On July 16 2013 20:41 StarscreamG1 wrote: Protoss is such a bad race despite the OP all-ins. Such a bad concept.
It was more about trap being on the map while Supernova's army was already on the move. Storms failed, all colossus went down without doing any damage to bio...
It wouldnt make a difference. Protoss skill ceiling is too low. Supernova didnt even have to split or make a concave..
The skill ceiling is infinite for all races, you can always do things better.
"Skill ceiling" still the worst balance whine in LR threads that doesn't get warnings =P
I've always argued about infinite skill ceiling. I should make a blog of it except lol blogs
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
Wow
People like drama
No, they're idiots who would happily throw accusations of match fixing at progamers.
It's nice that you're so trusting of people after all that has happened in brood war, but It's naive.
It may be silly to trust, but without that trust there wouldn't be a SC2 scene. I'm going to take a leap of faith. savior's crime does not implicate all progamers. Many of them are guiltless, and we shouldn't treat them like match fixers.
there's a moral difference between match fixing and just not giving a 100% in a game against a teammate where you are already out but your mate can still advance
I agree that for Fantasy there is a difference.
But do you think everyone on TL will care? If fantasy plays even slightly poorly everyone will accuse him of throwing the match for Rain.
Of course there will be negativity and accusations, that's how LR threads are. Just one small step above Twitch-chat and sometimes even equally bad. But we also have people here who see the difference and understand the situation, some of them already posted that.
Fantasy will lose 100%, it just won't be obvious. Seriously this situation isn't brand new. Remember people would play crappy in WCG in BW to avoid eachother.
On the flip side, if Fantasy does win, would he be a bad teammate or a good sportsman?
he would be a prisoner. Kespa jail awaits him either way, doesn't matter if he throws or if he beats rain
On July 16 2013 20:41 StarscreamG1 wrote: Protoss is such a bad race despite the OP all-ins. Such a bad concept.
It was more about trap being on the map while Supernova's army was already on the move. Storms failed, all colossus went down without doing any damage to bio...
It wouldnt make a difference. Protoss skill ceiling is too low. Supernova didnt even have to split or make a concave..
The skill ceiling is infinite for all races, you can always do things better.
"Skill ceiling" still the worst balance whine in LR threads that doesn't get warnings =P
I've always argued about infinite skill ceiling. I should make a blog of it except lol blogs
On July 16 2013 20:41 StarscreamG1 wrote: Protoss is such a bad race despite the OP all-ins. Such a bad concept.
It was more about trap being on the map while Supernova's army was already on the move. Storms failed, all colossus went down without doing any damage to bio...
It wouldnt make a difference. Protoss skill ceiling is too low. Supernova didnt even have to split or make a concave..
The skill ceiling is infinite for all races, you can always do things better.
"Skill ceiling" still the worst balance whine in LR threads that doesn't get warnings =P
I've always argued about infinite skill ceiling. I should make a blog of it except lol blogs
should do that when you run out of TL+ decent blogs are the easiest way to farm some TL+ gifts :D
On July 16 2013 20:41 StarscreamG1 wrote: Protoss is such a bad race despite the OP all-ins. Such a bad concept.
It was more about trap being on the map while Supernova's army was already on the move. Storms failed, all colossus went down without doing any damage to bio...
It wouldnt make a difference. Protoss skill ceiling is too low. Supernova didnt even have to split or make a concave..
The skill ceiling is infinite for all races, you can always do things better.
skills such as splitting and managing drops that actually make a huge difference when improved is what protoss lacks, it's hard to differentiate yourself from others, you can most certainly always improve in other areas, but they always have less impact, take maru for instance, he wins a lot of games just because of his godlike unit control, protoss doesn't really have that.
Wait, rewind. hyvaa beat First 2-0? I knew something was up when I came back in and saw Dodgins signature but what the hell. And Fantasy is out by the consequence of it? Screw the First hype, he's going on my meh-list. >: (
On July 16 2013 20:41 StarscreamG1 wrote: Protoss is such a bad race despite the OP all-ins. Such a bad concept.
It was more about trap being on the map while Supernova's army was already on the move. Storms failed, all colossus went down without doing any damage to bio...
It wouldnt make a difference. Protoss skill ceiling is too low. Supernova didnt even have to split or make a concave..
The skill ceiling is infinite for all races, you can always do things better.
"Skill ceiling" still the worst balance whine in LR threads that doesn't get warnings =P
I've always argued about infinite skill ceiling. I should make a blog of it except lol blogs
should do that when you run out of TL+ decent blogs are the easiest way to farm some TL+ gifts :D
On July 16 2013 20:41 StarscreamG1 wrote: Protoss is such a bad race despite the OP all-ins. Such a bad concept.
It was more about trap being on the map while Supernova's army was already on the move. Storms failed, all colossus went down without doing any damage to bio...
It wouldnt make a difference. Protoss skill ceiling is too low. Supernova didnt even have to split or make a concave..
The skill ceiling is infinite for all races, you can always do things better.
skills such as splitting and managing drops that actually make a huge difference when improved is what protoss lacks, it's hard to differentiate yourself from others, you can most certainly always improve in other areas, but they always have less impact, take maru for instance, he wins a lot of games just because of his godlike unit control, protoss doesn't really have that.
Not having to micro (much) your units to get the most out of them is a massive advantage, and same for not having to pressure your opponent to death. Plus Protoss can win games with "pure" unit control too, just because it materialises less in "fancy stuff" or is less impressive to watch doesn't mean it's not there.
On July 16 2013 20:54 Qwerty85 wrote: I knew it, he needed to respond with fast ghosts. Why go hellbats?
Fast ghost are a problem, because they are so costy, that you end up with too little standing army against the mass charge lot archon. You need a lot of bunkers to stop this push (so you need to know it's coming way in advance).
but I think it was a good excample of how hellbats work these days in TvP.
On July 16 2013 20:57 Zarahtra wrote: Don't feel like hellbat/blue flame paid for itself. Feel like 1 more rax would've just been better and possibly allow for faster upgrades
On July 16 2013 20:41 StarscreamG1 wrote: Protoss is such a bad race despite the OP all-ins. Such a bad concept.
It was more about trap being on the map while Supernova's army was already on the move. Storms failed, all colossus went down without doing any damage to bio...
It wouldnt make a difference. Protoss skill ceiling is too low. Supernova didnt even have to split or make a concave..
The skill ceiling is infinite for all races, you can always do things better.
skills such as splitting and managing drops that actually make a huge difference when improved is what protoss lacks, it's hard to differentiate yourself from others, you can most certainly always improve in other areas, but they always have less impact, take maru for instance, he wins a lot of games just because of his godlike unit control, protoss doesn't really have that.
Not having to micro (much) your units to get the most out of them is a massive advantage, and same for not having to pressure your opponent to death. Plus Protoss can win games with "pure" unit control too, just because it materialises less in "fancy stuff" or is less impressive to watch doesn't mean it's not there.
Wow this map... if you lure zerg into the easy to defend base and use blinkstalkers or something to kill the rocks to have the best forcefield in the game.
On July 16 2013 08:02 Undead1993 wrote: trap will take it easily. he surely has so much confidence after the recent pro league matches, even though it was pvp he will tkae it i have no doubt about that.
On July 16 2013 21:10 BigFan wrote: bah. Trap outplayed him there imo but those storms when he attacked weren't great and losing those 3 hts for defense was pretty bad.
I don't agree at all. They played very evenly most of the game, with Trap making a poor decision to attack when he did turning it into Supernova's favor.
Really cool day today. Protoss didn't win a single series except sOs in PvP, and Downfall still managed to complain about how easy it is for us to win.
On July 16 2013 21:10 Foxxan wrote: how do he use storm from prism that fast?
bind templars to a hotkey > load them into warp prism > press shift > give move command > press D and click war prism > hit the templars hotkey > press T > click .
d key > click warp prism > templar keys > t > click
3 keys and 2 clicks . not so hard but you have to get used to it
On July 16 2013 21:10 BigFan wrote: bah. Trap outplayed him there imo but those storms when he attacked weren't great and losing those 3 hts for defense was pretty bad.
I don't agree at all. They played very evenly most of the game, with Trap making a poor decision to attack when he did turning it into Supernova's favor.
Not really, trap had that game if he didn't send his warp prism out and if he didn't send his hts into the scan. Trap had a MASSIVE upgrade lead. Supernova hit a very lucky timing when his warp prism wasn't home.
On July 16 2013 21:10 BigFan wrote: bah. Trap outplayed him there imo but those storms when he attacked weren't great and losing those 3 hts for defense was pretty bad.
I don't agree at all. They played very evenly most of the game, with Trap making a poor decision to attack when he did turning it into Supernova's favor.
Not really, trap had that game if he didn't send his warp prism out and if he didn't send his hts into the scan. Trap had a MASSIVE upgrade lead. Supernova hit a very lucky timing when his warp prism wasn't home.
how often is your warp prism going to be sitting in your base?
On July 16 2013 21:10 BigFan wrote: bah. Trap outplayed him there imo but those storms when he attacked weren't great and losing those 3 hts for defense was pretty bad.
I don't agree at all. They played very evenly most of the game, with Trap making a poor decision to attack when he did turning it into Supernova's favor.
Not really, trap had that game if he didn't send his warp prism out and if he didn't send his hts into the scan. Trap had a MASSIVE upgrade lead. Supernova hit a very lucky timing when his warp prism wasn't home.
how often is your warp prism going to be sitting in your base?
Well he did know an attack was coming. Don't think he knew it was a scv pull, but yeah.
On July 16 2013 21:10 BigFan wrote: bah. Trap outplayed him there imo but those storms when he attacked weren't great and losing those 3 hts for defense was pretty bad.
I don't agree at all. They played very evenly most of the game, with Trap making a poor decision to attack when he did turning it into Supernova's favor.
Not really, trap had that game if he didn't send his warp prism out and if he didn't send his hts into the scan. Trap had a MASSIVE upgrade lead. Supernova hit a very lucky timing when his warp prism wasn't home.
Right, Traps upgrade lead was going to carry him into an advantage had the game gone on. Hence why Supernova committed to an all-in when he did, right when he had gained a slight advantage from Traps bad engagement at Supernova's base.
And he wasn't lucky the warp prism wasn't home, because why the hell would it be. The point of a warp prism is to harass, of course Trap isn't going to have it at home.
On July 16 2013 21:10 BigFan wrote: bah. Trap outplayed him there imo but those storms when he attacked weren't great and losing those 3 hts for defense was pretty bad.
I don't agree at all. They played very evenly most of the game, with Trap making a poor decision to attack when he did turning it into Supernova's favor.
Not really, trap had that game if he didn't send his warp prism out and if he didn't send his hts into the scan. Trap had a MASSIVE upgrade lead. Supernova hit a very lucky timing when his warp prism wasn't home.
how often is your warp prism going to be sitting in your base?
I would say half the time. Supernova hit a timing where the warp prism had JUST left. There's no way he could've known that. I'm pretty sure he just scv pulled because he knew he had a massive upgrade deficit and at worst he would lose, which is pretty much guaranteed if he continued into the late game.
On July 16 2013 21:10 Schelim wrote: FUCK YEAH SUPERNOVA!!!
welcome back to my sig.
At the end of this galaxy, he'll come for you FIRST!
i ragequit him when he didn't get the Nestea award =/
lol @ Artosis implying matchfixing. but ultimately OGN are to blame for that disaster, they shoulda just put matches between team members first.
yo schelim you gotta stick to your players thru thik and thin! wtf
fuck that, man. i'm a fair weather fan, except when it comes to Mvp and Grubby. but i guess Mvp doesn't know how to not win for longer than like a month or two.
On July 16 2013 21:10 BigFan wrote: bah. Trap outplayed him there imo but those storms when he attacked weren't great and losing those 3 hts for defense was pretty bad.
I don't agree at all. They played very evenly most of the game, with Trap making a poor decision to attack when he did turning it into Supernova's favor.
Supernova's attack were for the most part did no damage at all. Those 2 mines killed a stalker, his double medivac drop denied twice so Trap's defense and then his dts which killed around 8 SCVs and forced 3-4 scans were well done. I think engaging at that choke and losing those 3 hts before storming cost him the game more than anything. He was even up 2 armor upgrades over Supernova, that's big. Only reason Supernova won is because of those aforementioned reasons imo.
On July 16 2013 21:10 BigFan wrote: bah. Trap outplayed him there imo but those storms when he attacked weren't great and losing those 3 hts for defense was pretty bad.
I don't agree at all. They played very evenly most of the game, with Trap making a poor decision to attack when he did turning it into Supernova's favor.
Supernova's attack were for the most part did no damage at all. Those 2 mines killed a stalker, his double medivac drop denied twice so Trap's defense and then his dts which killed around 8 SCVs and forced 3-4 scans were well done. I think engaging at that choke and losing those 3 hts before storming cost him the game more than anything. He was even up 2 armor upgrades over Supernova, that's big. Only reason Supernova won is because of those aforementioned reasons imo.
I don't know what your point is then. When Trap attacked, Supernova was slightly up on supply and with a better army composition (Trap had no colossus and very few HT. Supernova had just gotten his first batch of ghosts) but much worse upgrades. Trap's harass was a bit more effective (Supernova did more than just the widow mine thing, his drops got a few probes), but it didn't cripple Supernova, hence why I said they played pretty evenly most of the game. Then Trap made a bad decision, followed by Supernova making a great decision to capitalize at what was probably his only timing to do so.
On July 16 2013 21:11 xsnac wrote: esf holds atleast half of top8
First is not guaranteed to get through
Both eSF and KeSPA can get up to 5 players into Round of 8. So far pretty balanced. Of course I wonder if eSF will be able to push someone to play against INnoVation in the final.
On July 16 2013 21:20 KristofferAG wrote: I suggest you all tune into OGN stream now for some awesome variety show! Innovation and hyvaa are in it!
I am so confused about this.
It's fucking glorious!
Who have been on the previous shows?
bisu, and jaedong did an episode. Flash and Stork did one. that's all I remember off the top of my head it's called Star Haengshow. used to be a youtube channel i had favorited with the subs but they got taken down T_T
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
Wow
It has nothing to do with integrity, 99% of people would throw in that situation, it's whats best for the team.
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
Wow
It has nothing to do with integrity, 99% of people would throw in that situation, it's whats best for the team.
Does he really need to throw the match? He has literally no real incentive to prepare for this match and he's very capable of playing bad when unprepared. ;p
so what i understand, mapscore doesnt matter at all, so even if rain only wins 2-1 over fanta, there will be a bo1 tie breaker between rain, first and hyvaa?
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
Wow
7:40 mark where Boxer pulled his forces away where he could've ended. Does that count as matchfixing to you?
Koreans are known to throw games to get 2nd place in WCG group stages so they could avoid facing each other in elimination brackets. Does that count as match-fixing to you?
Matchfixing is only bad when money is involved (like Savior's matchfixing). Koreans have no problems with fixing matches when it comes to entertaining showmatch audiences or getting all medals in WCG.
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
Wow
Koreans are known to throw games to get 2nd place in WCG group stages so they could avoid facing each other in elimination brackets. Does that count as match-fixing to you?
Matchfixing is only bad when money is involved (like Savior's matchfixing). Koreans have no problems with fixing matches when it comes to entertaining showmatch audiences or getting all medals in WCG.
All about $$$$$
Of course they have problems with it. Byun vs Coca, remember? You just have to do it in a way that doesn't make it obvious. Not using gamechat is one of these ways.
On July 16 2013 22:17 MichaelScott wrote: can some1 edit the tiebreaker rules to the OP?
so what i understand, mapscore doesnt matter at all, so even if rain only wins 2-1 over fanta, there will be a bo1 tie breaker between rain, first and hyvaa?
Yes.
Head to head is looked at first, but in this case: First beat Rain Rain beat hyvaa hyvaa beat First
Therefore, Bo1 Tiebreakers would occur if Rain beats Fantasy (regardless of map score).
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
7:40 mark where Boxer pulled his forces away where he could've ended. Does that count as matchfixing to you?
Koreans are known to throw games to get 2nd place in WCG group stages so they could avoid facing each other in elimination brackets. Does that count as match-fixing to you?
Matchfixing is only bad when money is involved (like Savior's matchfixing). Koreans have no problems with fixing matches when it comes to entertaining showmatch audiences or getting all medals in WCG.
All about $$$$$
Match fixing and loosing on purpose is not exactly the same. But the situation here is similar to team orders in F1 and even though they are forbidden they do happen.
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
On July 16 2013 23:00 StarscreamG1 wrote: They are teammates, they can do whatever they want.
When Nani did "whatever he want", everyone went apeshit and that match was totally irrelevant, while in this case a ro8 spot is on the line. If Rain wins (which he probably will do, since he is the better player of the two) a bunch of people will go totally nuts in the LR. I really hope, that Fantasy wins this match, just to avoid the drama it could unleash.
Fantasy will definately let Rain win, maybe not have it entirely fixed but why would he be motivated or anything to try and beat Rain. It's just another result of the stupid format used by OSL, bo1 in ro32 then round robin in ro16.. both are terrible for letting silly situations happen and players advance in seemingly unfair ways. Round robin is already questionable in a game like starcraft where draws don't exist and the pointless last game happens very often. Thursday has 2 pointless games, 1 game that is pointless for one player playing agianst a teammate and just 1 game that determines group outcome. If you play round robin at least make sure to let teammates meet eachoter before the last round, it just prevents collusion. Also at least use some sort of decent tiebreaker... Head to head results is a useless tiebreaker as three people tied for first or second will always be a A>B>C>A..
OSL doesn't have round robin because they are stupid or want these pointless games. OGN has to use a round robin format because it ensures that their schedule is more or less fixed. OGN are also a TV station, and if Starcraft2 wants to be on TV, they will have to find a way to fit into TV schedules. Having days with only 1 or 2 games because the others were cancelled for being meaningless disrupts that schedule. These things are scheduled in advance and can't be changed.
Lots of sports play pointless games, especially sports with a regular season and playoffs such as the NBA. Lots of teams with no hope of changing their destinies play their benches and rookies even though their opponents still have a lot to play for.
On July 16 2013 23:26 lichter wrote: OSL doesn't have round robin because they are stupid or want these pointless games. OGN has to use a round robin format because it ensures that their schedule is more or less fixed. OGN are also a TV station, and if Starcraft2 wants to be on TV, they will have to find a way to fit into TV schedules. Having days with only 1 or 2 games because the others were cancelled for being meaningless disrupts that schedule. These things are scheduled in advance and can't be changed.
Lots of sports play pointless games, especially sports with a regular season and playoffs such as the NBA. Lots of teams with no hope of changing their destinies play their benches and rookies even though their opponents still have a lot to play for.
I don't quite understand.
Meaningless games only happen in the round robin format, if they had used the GSL format not only in the Ro32 but also in the Ro16, there wouldn't have been any pointless games.
On July 16 2013 23:26 lichter wrote: OSL doesn't have round robin because they are stupid or want these pointless games. OGN has to use a round robin format because it ensures that their schedule is more or less fixed. OGN are also a TV station, and if Starcraft2 wants to be on TV, they will have to find a way to fit into TV schedules. Having days with only 1 or 2 games because the others were cancelled for being meaningless disrupts that schedule. These things are scheduled in advance and can't be changed.
Lots of sports play pointless games, especially sports with a regular season and playoffs such as the NBA. Lots of teams with no hope of changing their destinies play their benches and rookies even though their opponents still have a lot to play for.
I don't quite understand.
Meaningless games only happen in the round robin format, if they had used the GSL format not only in the Ro32 but also in the Ro16, there wouldn't have been any pointless games.
They need the pointless games to fill their schedule. If the pointless games were removed, some of their days would only have 1 or 2 games. This would prove to be a scheduling nightmare, because they need to schedule the games just in case they need to happen. That schedule needs to be filled because OGN televises the games on TV. You can't just schedule a TV spot and then adjust your schedule a week before. They don't want to show reruns, because the slot is dedicated to Starcraft.
On July 16 2013 23:26 lichter wrote: OSL doesn't have round robin because they are stupid or want these pointless games. OGN has to use a round robin format because it ensures that their schedule is more or less fixed. OGN are also a TV station, and if Starcraft2 wants to be on TV, they will have to find a way to fit into TV schedules. Having days with only 1 or 2 games because the others were cancelled for being meaningless disrupts that schedule. These things are scheduled in advance and can't be changed.
Lots of sports play pointless games, especially sports with a regular season and playoffs such as the NBA. Lots of teams with no hope of changing their destinies play their benches and rookies even though their opponents still have a lot to play for.
I don't quite understand.
Meaningless games only happen in the round robin format, if they had used the GSL format not only in the Ro32 but also in the Ro16, there wouldn't have been any pointless games.
They need the pointless games to fill their schedule. If the pointless games were removed, some of their days would only have 1 or 2 games. This would prove to be a scheduling nightmare, because they need to schedule the games just in case they need to happen. That schedule needs to be filled because OGN televises the games on TV. You can't just schedule a TV spot and then adjust your schedule a week before. They don't want to show reruns, because the slot is dedicated to Starcraft.
It's not about having an optimal format.
It's about filling their time slot.
They still could have played the team kill games first in each group like was suggested earlier by another forum regular though.
The schedule would have been known ahead of time (unless people swapped teams at a ridiculous time) and the format wouldn't even need to be changed.
The situation Rain and Fantasy are in shouldn´t be allowed to happen in the first place. It puts the teams, the players, the tournament and the viewer in a bad spot. GSL group format could have prevented this.
EDIT
On July 17 2013 00:16 lichter wrote: They need the pointless games to fill their schedule. If the pointless games were removed, some of their days would only have 1 or 2 games. This would prove to be a scheduling nightmare, because they need to schedule the games just in case they need to happen. That schedule needs to be filled because OGN televises the games on TV. You can't just schedule a TV spot and then adjust your schedule a week before. They don't want to show reruns, because the slot is dedicated to Starcraft.
It's not about having an optimal format.
It's about filling their time slot.
Can´t you have a reliable schedule using GSL format? I mean, since there can be no ties, it should even be more reliable, shouldn´t it?
1vs2 3vs4 WvsW LvsL WvsL done, and always 5 games/series. And you could play it on different days like in OSL as well.
On July 16 2013 23:26 lichter wrote: OSL doesn't have round robin because they are stupid or want these pointless games. OGN has to use a round robin format because it ensures that their schedule is more or less fixed. OGN are also a TV station, and if Starcraft2 wants to be on TV, they will have to find a way to fit into TV schedules. Having days with only 1 or 2 games because the others were cancelled for being meaningless disrupts that schedule. These things are scheduled in advance and can't be changed.
Lots of sports play pointless games, especially sports with a regular season and playoffs such as the NBA. Lots of teams with no hope of changing their destinies play their benches and rookies even though their opponents still have a lot to play for.
I don't quite understand.
Meaningless games only happen in the round robin format, if they had used the GSL format not only in the Ro32 but also in the Ro16, there wouldn't have been any pointless games.
They need the pointless games to fill their schedule. If the pointless games were removed, some of their days would only have 1 or 2 games. This would prove to be a scheduling nightmare, because they need to schedule the games just in case they need to happen. That schedule needs to be filled because OGN televises the games on TV. You can't just schedule a TV spot and then adjust your schedule a week before. They don't want to show reruns, because the slot is dedicated to Starcraft.
It's not about having an optimal format.
It's about filling their time slot.
They still could have played the team kill games first in each group like was suggested earlier by another forum regular though.
The schedule would have been known ahead of time (unless people swapped teams at a ridiculous time) and the format wouldn't even need to be changed.
I think it was an oversight.
Yeah they should definitely have played those team kills first
On July 16 2013 23:26 lichter wrote: OSL doesn't have round robin because they are stupid or want these pointless games. OGN has to use a round robin format because it ensures that their schedule is more or less fixed. OGN are also a TV station, and if Starcraft2 wants to be on TV, they will have to find a way to fit into TV schedules. Having days with only 1 or 2 games because the others were cancelled for being meaningless disrupts that schedule. These things are scheduled in advance and can't be changed.
Lots of sports play pointless games, especially sports with a regular season and playoffs such as the NBA. Lots of teams with no hope of changing their destinies play their benches and rookies even though their opponents still have a lot to play for.
I don't quite understand.
Meaningless games only happen in the round robin format, if they had used the GSL format not only in the Ro32 but also in the Ro16, there wouldn't have been any pointless games.
They need the pointless games to fill their schedule. If the pointless games were removed, some of their days would only have 1 or 2 games. This would prove to be a scheduling nightmare, because they need to schedule the games just in case they need to happen. That schedule needs to be filled because OGN televises the games on TV. You can't just schedule a TV spot and then adjust your schedule a week before. They don't want to show reruns, because the slot is dedicated to Starcraft.
It's not about having an optimal format.
It's about filling their time slot.
You don't get it, do you? The OSL format is simply bad. If they use the GSL format. There won't be any pointless game. The schedule will be fulfilled with meaningful game.
On July 16 2013 23:26 lichter wrote: OSL doesn't have round robin because they are stupid or want these pointless games. OGN has to use a round robin format because it ensures that their schedule is more or less fixed. OGN are also a TV station, and if Starcraft2 wants to be on TV, they will have to find a way to fit into TV schedules. Having days with only 1 or 2 games because the others were cancelled for being meaningless disrupts that schedule. These things are scheduled in advance and can't be changed.
Lots of sports play pointless games, especially sports with a regular season and playoffs such as the NBA. Lots of teams with no hope of changing their destinies play their benches and rookies even though their opponents still have a lot to play for.
I don't quite understand.
Meaningless games only happen in the round robin format, if they had used the GSL format not only in the Ro32 but also in the Ro16, there wouldn't have been any pointless games.
They need the pointless games to fill their schedule. If the pointless games were removed, some of their days would only have 1 or 2 games. This would prove to be a scheduling nightmare, because they need to schedule the games just in case they need to happen. That schedule needs to be filled because OGN televises the games on TV. You can't just schedule a TV spot and then adjust your schedule a week before. They don't want to show reruns, because the slot is dedicated to Starcraft.
It's not about having an optimal format.
It's about filling their time slot.
You don't get it, do you? The OSL format is simply bad. If they use the GSL format. There won't be any pointless game. The schedule will be fulfilled with meaningful game.
I actually like the OSL format - the Ro16 part anyway. It's nice to have a variation of format occasionally and the WCS point gains means that the games are never truly pointless (unintentional pun).
The team kill 'throw' situation is not the fault of the format - it's the fault of the organizers.
On July 16 2013 23:26 lichter wrote: OSL doesn't have round robin because they are stupid or want these pointless games. OGN has to use a round robin format because it ensures that their schedule is more or less fixed. OGN are also a TV station, and if Starcraft2 wants to be on TV, they will have to find a way to fit into TV schedules. Having days with only 1 or 2 games because the others were cancelled for being meaningless disrupts that schedule. These things are scheduled in advance and can't be changed.
Lots of sports play pointless games, especially sports with a regular season and playoffs such as the NBA. Lots of teams with no hope of changing their destinies play their benches and rookies even though their opponents still have a lot to play for.
I don't quite understand.
Meaningless games only happen in the round robin format, if they had used the GSL format not only in the Ro32 but also in the Ro16, there wouldn't have been any pointless games.
They need the pointless games to fill their schedule. If the pointless games were removed, some of their days would only have 1 or 2 games. This would prove to be a scheduling nightmare, because they need to schedule the games just in case they need to happen. That schedule needs to be filled because OGN televises the games on TV. You can't just schedule a TV spot and then adjust your schedule a week before. They don't want to show reruns, because the slot is dedicated to Starcraft.
It's not about having an optimal format.
It's about filling their time slot.
You don't get it, do you? The OSL format is simply bad. If they use the GSL format. There won't be any pointless game. The schedule will be fulfilled with meaningful game.
What? I didn't say it wasn't bad. I am only explaining why they stick with this format. One of the reasons is because of their schedule. They want to fill it, even if it means stupid games. I'd also prefer the GSL format, but I can understand why the OSL insist on sticking with this. I agree that it isn't a 'good enough' reason, but it is what it is.
On July 17 2013 00:42 Daswollvieh wrote: Can´t you have a reliable schedule using GSL format? I mean, since there can be no ties, it should even be more reliable, shouldn´t it?
1vs2 3vs4 WvsW LvsL WvsL done, and always 5 games/series. And you could play it on different days like in OSL as well.
That's 5 game days versus 6 game days. I suppose if they could reorganize their sched to be fine with 5 game days, it could work. But I'm sure they want to maximize exposure and profit from the games. Like I said, they are not going with what is optimal. They are sticking with what gets them the most profit and ends up being easier to schedule.
On July 16 2013 23:26 lichter wrote: OSL doesn't have round robin because they are stupid or want these pointless games. OGN has to use a round robin format because it ensures that their schedule is more or less fixed. OGN are also a TV station, and if Starcraft2 wants to be on TV, they will have to find a way to fit into TV schedules. Having days with only 1 or 2 games because the others were cancelled for being meaningless disrupts that schedule. These things are scheduled in advance and can't be changed.
Lots of sports play pointless games, especially sports with a regular season and playoffs such as the NBA. Lots of teams with no hope of changing their destinies play their benches and rookies even though their opponents still have a lot to play for.
I don't quite understand.
Meaningless games only happen in the round robin format, if they had used the GSL format not only in the Ro32 but also in the Ro16, there wouldn't have been any pointless games.
They need the pointless games to fill their schedule. If the pointless games were removed, some of their days would only have 1 or 2 games. This would prove to be a scheduling nightmare, because they need to schedule the games just in case they need to happen. That schedule needs to be filled because OGN televises the games on TV. You can't just schedule a TV spot and then adjust your schedule a week before. They don't want to show reruns, because the slot is dedicated to Starcraft.
It's not about having an optimal format.
It's about filling their time slot.
You don't get it, do you? The OSL format is simply bad. If they use the GSL format. There won't be any pointless game. The schedule will be fulfilled with meaningful game.
What? I didn't say it wasn't bad. I am only explaining why they stick with this format. One of the reasons is because of their schedule. They want to fill it, even if it means stupid games. I'd also prefer the GSL format, but I can understand why the OSL insist on sticking with this.
Ok, i get you point. My mistake. But OGN could arrange the schedule better since they fix it long time ago. They should at least know to put team kill not in the last round. That's quit basic sense. And also, OGN didn't hesitate a moment to switch flash's game when he need it.
On July 16 2013 20:26 Bagration wrote: Wow, speculating that SKT will match fix. Seriously, you guys think Boxer will let something like that happen? Don't you think Fantasy and Rain have integrity?
7:40 mark where Boxer pulled his forces away where he could've ended. Does that count as matchfixing to you?
LOL you can't possibly be serious. This is a Best of 1 Showmatch played for fun and the viewers.
How about my question regarding WCG? It's a tournament in which prize money and national pride are at stake. Koreans still throw games to foreigners just to get 2nd place in group stages.
On July 16 2013 23:26 lichter wrote: OSL doesn't have round robin because they are stupid or want these pointless games. OGN has to use a round robin format because it ensures that their schedule is more or less fixed. OGN are also a TV station, and if Starcraft2 wants to be on TV, they will have to find a way to fit into TV schedules. Having days with only 1 or 2 games because the others were cancelled for being meaningless disrupts that schedule. These things are scheduled in advance and can't be changed.
Lots of sports play pointless games, especially sports with a regular season and playoffs such as the NBA. Lots of teams with no hope of changing their destinies play their benches and rookies even though their opponents still have a lot to play for.
I don't quite understand.
Meaningless games only happen in the round robin format, if they had used the GSL format not only in the Ro32 but also in the Ro16, there wouldn't have been any pointless games.
They need the pointless games to fill their schedule. If the pointless games were removed, some of their days would only have 1 or 2 games. This would prove to be a scheduling nightmare, because they need to schedule the games just in case they need to happen. That schedule needs to be filled because OGN televises the games on TV. You can't just schedule a TV spot and then adjust your schedule a week before. They don't want to show reruns, because the slot is dedicated to Starcraft.
It's not about having an optimal format.
It's about filling their time slot.
You don't get it, do you? The OSL format is simply bad. If they use the GSL format. There won't be any pointless game. The schedule will be fulfilled with meaningful game.
And on the flip side you have people saying the GSL format is unfair because you don't have to play everyone in your group to advance.
Can't please everyone. Variation in tournament structure is actually a good thing. Keeps things interesting.
On July 16 2013 23:26 lichter wrote: OSL doesn't have round robin because they are stupid or want these pointless games. OGN has to use a round robin format because it ensures that their schedule is more or less fixed. OGN are also a TV station, and if Starcraft2 wants to be on TV, they will have to find a way to fit into TV schedules. Having days with only 1 or 2 games because the others were cancelled for being meaningless disrupts that schedule. These things are scheduled in advance and can't be changed.
Lots of sports play pointless games, especially sports with a regular season and playoffs such as the NBA. Lots of teams with no hope of changing their destinies play their benches and rookies even though their opponents still have a lot to play for.
I don't quite understand.
Meaningless games only happen in the round robin format, if they had used the GSL format not only in the Ro32 but also in the Ro16, there wouldn't have been any pointless games.
They need the pointless games to fill their schedule. If the pointless games were removed, some of their days would only have 1 or 2 games. This would prove to be a scheduling nightmare, because they need to schedule the games just in case they need to happen. That schedule needs to be filled because OGN televises the games on TV. You can't just schedule a TV spot and then adjust your schedule a week before. They don't want to show reruns, because the slot is dedicated to Starcraft.
It's not about having an optimal format.
It's about filling their time slot.
You don't get it, do you? The OSL format is simply bad. If they use the GSL format. There won't be any pointless game. The schedule will be fulfilled with meaningful game.
I enjoy OSL format more than GSL (in Ro16). For starters you play only one opponent each week instead of up to three- you can prepare. There are no truly meaningless games thanks to points. Round robin seems fair as you can't avoid hard matchup within a group. OSL is a way to go
On July 16 2013 23:26 lichter wrote: OSL doesn't have round robin because they are stupid or want these pointless games. OGN has to use a round robin format because it ensures that their schedule is more or less fixed. OGN are also a TV station, and if Starcraft2 wants to be on TV, they will have to find a way to fit into TV schedules. Having days with only 1 or 2 games because the others were cancelled for being meaningless disrupts that schedule. These things are scheduled in advance and can't be changed.
Lots of sports play pointless games, especially sports with a regular season and playoffs such as the NBA. Lots of teams with no hope of changing their destinies play their benches and rookies even though their opponents still have a lot to play for.
I don't quite understand.
Meaningless games only happen in the round robin format, if they had used the GSL format not only in the Ro32 but also in the Ro16, there wouldn't have been any pointless games.
They need the pointless games to fill their schedule. If the pointless games were removed, some of their days would only have 1 or 2 games. This would prove to be a scheduling nightmare, because they need to schedule the games just in case they need to happen. That schedule needs to be filled because OGN televises the games on TV. You can't just schedule a TV spot and then adjust your schedule a week before. They don't want to show reruns, because the slot is dedicated to Starcraft.
It's not about having an optimal format.
It's about filling their time slot.
You don't get it, do you? The OSL format is simply bad. If they use the GSL format. There won't be any pointless game. The schedule will be fulfilled with meaningful game.
I enjoy OSL format more than GSL (in Ro16). For starters you play only one opponent each week instead of up to three- you can prepare. There are no truly meaningless games thanks to points. Round robin seems fair as you can't avoid hard matchup within a group. OSL is a way to go
SK-Parting and Kangho-Maru are truly pointless games.
On July 16 2013 23:26 lichter wrote: OSL doesn't have round robin because they are stupid or want these pointless games. OGN has to use a round robin format because it ensures that their schedule is more or less fixed. OGN are also a TV station, and if Starcraft2 wants to be on TV, they will have to find a way to fit into TV schedules. Having days with only 1 or 2 games because the others were cancelled for being meaningless disrupts that schedule. These things are scheduled in advance and can't be changed.
Lots of sports play pointless games, especially sports with a regular season and playoffs such as the NBA. Lots of teams with no hope of changing their destinies play their benches and rookies even though their opponents still have a lot to play for.
I don't quite understand.
Meaningless games only happen in the round robin format, if they had used the GSL format not only in the Ro32 but also in the Ro16, there wouldn't have been any pointless games.
They need the pointless games to fill their schedule. If the pointless games were removed, some of their days would only have 1 or 2 games. This would prove to be a scheduling nightmare, because they need to schedule the games just in case they need to happen. That schedule needs to be filled because OGN televises the games on TV. You can't just schedule a TV spot and then adjust your schedule a week before. They don't want to show reruns, because the slot is dedicated to Starcraft.
It's not about having an optimal format.
It's about filling their time slot.
You don't get it, do you? The OSL format is simply bad. If they use the GSL format. There won't be any pointless game. The schedule will be fulfilled with meaningful game.
I enjoy OSL format more than GSL (in Ro16). For starters you play only one opponent each week instead of up to three- you can prepare. There are no truly meaningless games thanks to points. Round robin seems fair as you can't avoid hard matchup within a group. OSL is a way to go
SK-Parting and Kangho-Maru are truly pointless games.
And Parting never faced Innovation in the "Group of Death" in GSL even though both advanced out. No tournament is optimal.
On July 16 2013 23:26 lichter wrote: OSL doesn't have round robin because they are stupid or want these pointless games. OGN has to use a round robin format because it ensures that their schedule is more or less fixed. OGN are also a TV station, and if Starcraft2 wants to be on TV, they will have to find a way to fit into TV schedules. Having days with only 1 or 2 games because the others were cancelled for being meaningless disrupts that schedule. These things are scheduled in advance and can't be changed.
Lots of sports play pointless games, especially sports with a regular season and playoffs such as the NBA. Lots of teams with no hope of changing their destinies play their benches and rookies even though their opponents still have a lot to play for.
I don't quite understand.
Meaningless games only happen in the round robin format, if they had used the GSL format not only in the Ro32 but also in the Ro16, there wouldn't have been any pointless games.
They need the pointless games to fill their schedule. If the pointless games were removed, some of their days would only have 1 or 2 games. This would prove to be a scheduling nightmare, because they need to schedule the games just in case they need to happen. That schedule needs to be filled because OGN televises the games on TV. You can't just schedule a TV spot and then adjust your schedule a week before. They don't want to show reruns, because the slot is dedicated to Starcraft.
It's not about having an optimal format.
It's about filling their time slot.
You don't get it, do you? The OSL format is simply bad. If they use the GSL format. There won't be any pointless game. The schedule will be fulfilled with meaningful game.
I enjoy OSL format more than GSL (in Ro16). For starters you play only one opponent each week instead of up to three- you can prepare. There are no truly meaningless games thanks to points. Round robin seems fair as you can't avoid hard matchup within a group. OSL is a way to go
SK-Parting and Kangho-Maru are truly pointless games.
The whole idea of pointless games emerged after NaNiwa's probe rush. While I enjoy NaNiwa, I'm not exactly comfortable with idea that tournament format must ensure no "pointless" games occur. There's no such problem in other sports and generally round robin is a way to go for group play: football, tennis etc. Because the advantage of round robin is that you won't be eliminated by losing to only one player and this in my mind outweighs the "pointless game" issue.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/wo1fwood/OSL/OSL_np3.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/thumb/3/30/Writers_Icon.png/15px-Writers_Icon.png){kind=icon}
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/r9ZH0.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/7/7f/Twitch_ico.png)
WCS OSL | ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/e/ea/Gomtv_ico.jpg)
GOMTV | ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/3/36/Kr.png)
VLC: http://hd.ognp2p.gscdn.com/ognsdlive![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LEQoy.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ms6nV.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/t7Prb.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xYABn.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/icons/1.png){kind=icon}
PartinG vs. ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/icons/6.png){kind=icon}
Soulkey![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/icons/9.png){kind=icon}
Bbyong vs. ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/icons/2.png){kind=icon}
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/icons/5.png){kind=icon}
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/icons/89.png){kind=icon}
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/icons/267.png){kind=icon}
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bv8Kw.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/l5YZ8.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3wcCS.png)
)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/c/c1/ActionJesuz.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3ZsIzRh.jpg)
