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Asian Indoor & Martial Arts Games 2013 Starcraft 2 - Page 17

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Popkiller
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
3415 Posts
July 02 2013 21:27 GMT
#321
On July 03 2013 06:25 LighT. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 03 2013 06:22 Popkiller wrote:
uh oh, Flash lost to a "casual" player...

Im extremely interested to see the VoD between Fly/LoveCD vs Flash, especially if LoveCD is as good as Rain according to him. There's so many untapped players in China, they really need a good esports infrastructure and more teams.


I was talking about sOs and how his coach called him a casual player... and I was kind of poking fun at that because he's pretty damn good.
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
July 02 2013 21:30 GMT
#322
On July 03 2013 06:27 Popkiller wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 03 2013 06:25 LighT. wrote:
On July 03 2013 06:22 Popkiller wrote:
uh oh, Flash lost to a "casual" player...

Im extremely interested to see the VoD between Fly/LoveCD vs Flash, especially if LoveCD is as good as Rain according to him. There's so many untapped players in China, they really need a good esports infrastructure and more teams.


I was talking about sOs and how his coach called him a casual player... and I was kind of poking fun at that because he's pretty damn good.

Didnt the coach say ever since he got to the RO4 in GSL, he's been taking the game more seriously and actually training hard :p?
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
July 02 2013 21:33 GMT
#323
wut, Flash didn't win?

Still no championship for him in sc2
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
Abominous
Profile Joined March 2013
Croatia1625 Posts
July 02 2013 21:34 GMT
#324
On July 03 2013 06:33 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
wut, Flash didn't win?

Still no championship for him in sc2

This is as much of a championship as a weekly Korean tournament :D
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
July 02 2013 21:34 GMT
#325
On July 03 2013 06:33 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
wut, Flash didn't win?

Still no championship for him in sc2

He has one at least.
He won the championship to my heart <3
NicksonReyes
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Philippines4431 Posts
July 02 2013 21:35 GMT
#326
Well, Protoss is still Flash's weakness after all. If LoveCD is really as good as Rain, he should have pwned Flash ez.
"Start yo" -FlaSh
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
July 02 2013 21:38 GMT
#327
On July 03 2013 06:35 NicksonReyes wrote:
Well, Protoss is still Flash's weakness after all. If LoveCD is really as good as Rain, he should have pwned Flash ez.

And this is based on what?
Rain's 1-0 record against Flash in HoTS?
Lol....

But youre right. its crazy how TvP is Flash's weakest match up and his winrate for it is a terrible 64%.
xsnac
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Barbados1365 Posts
July 02 2013 21:45 GMT
#328
On July 03 2013 06:38 LighT. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 03 2013 06:35 NicksonReyes wrote:
Well, Protoss is still Flash's weakness after all. If LoveCD is really as good as Rain, he should have pwned Flash ez.

And this is based on what?
Rain's 1-0 record against Flash in HoTS?
Lol....

But youre right. its crazy how TvP is Flash's weakest match up and his winrate for it is a terrible 64%.


rain dosent make mistakes in pvt . as simple as that . and we saw how flash can throw games last season vs parting on daybreak .
1/4 \pi \epsilon_0
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
July 02 2013 21:49 GMT
#329
On July 03 2013 06:45 xsnac wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 03 2013 06:38 LighT. wrote:
On July 03 2013 06:35 NicksonReyes wrote:
Well, Protoss is still Flash's weakness after all. If LoveCD is really as good as Rain, he should have pwned Flash ez.

And this is based on what?
Rain's 1-0 record against Flash in HoTS?
Lol....

But youre right. its crazy how TvP is Flash's weakest match up and his winrate for it is a terrible 64%.


rain dosent make mistakes in pvt . as simple as that . and we saw how flash can throw games last season vs parting on daybreak .

But if we can recall the previous time Flash met Rain in the GSL, Flash beat Rain in dominating fashion.
Although arguable in SPL, Rain completely outclassed Flash in their only head to head match up.

As for the throwing...anyone can throw games..
I can argue how terrible Innovation is based on how badly he lost against Turn who played pretty badly..
or how Soulkey's ZvP is weak based on how Stats ran circles around him with his air-toss.
theMagus
Profile Joined February 2013
578 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-02 22:02:47
July 02 2013 22:00 GMT
#330
flash's tvp is still lacking it seems. honestly, whenever flash is facing a good protoss, i get kinda worried. but oh well. he's still far from his bw form and he has quite a bit of time to get there

grats to sos though! seems like he really knew what to do against flash.
"Give away the stone. Let the oceans take and transmutate this cold and fated anchor. Let the waters kiss and transmutate these leaden grudges into gold. Let go."
sharkie
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Austria18648 Posts
July 02 2013 22:04 GMT
#331
On July 03 2013 06:38 LighT. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 03 2013 06:35 NicksonReyes wrote:
Well, Protoss is still Flash's weakness after all. If LoveCD is really as good as Rain, he should have pwned Flash ez.

And this is based on what?
Rain's 1-0 record against Flash in HoTS?
Lol....

But youre right. its crazy how TvP is Flash's weakest match up and his winrate for it is a terrible 64%.


its 57%
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
July 02 2013 22:06 GMT
#332
On July 03 2013 07:04 sharkie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 03 2013 06:38 LighT. wrote:
On July 03 2013 06:35 NicksonReyes wrote:
Well, Protoss is still Flash's weakness after all. If LoveCD is really as good as Rain, he should have pwned Flash ez.

And this is based on what?
Rain's 1-0 record against Flash in HoTS?
Lol....

But youre right. its crazy how TvP is Flash's weakest match up and his winrate for it is a terrible 64%.


its 57%

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=hots&type=players&id=424&part=games&vs=P&league=any&map=any&from_year=2013&from_month=3&from_day=15&to_year=2013&to_month=7&to_day=2&action=Update
63.64%
~64%
theMagus
Profile Joined February 2013
578 Posts
July 02 2013 22:12 GMT
#333
On July 03 2013 06:11 painkilla wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 03 2013 05:14 EFermi wrote:
On July 03 2013 03:02 VmY wrote:
On July 03 2013 01:09 EFermi wrote:
Sos won? I really can't believe that. I thought he would fade away into obscurity after losing in the OSL.


Really? He lost 2 games, happens to the best.


I was thinking more about his mental state after getting embarrassed in the WCS S1 finals followed by the failure of OSL so soon after.

On July 03 2013 04:06 LighT. wrote:
Who is the more accomplished Player in HoTS?

Soulkey:
- 1st WCS KR
- Semi-Finals WCS Finals
- Ro16 WCS KR S2
- Dropped from MLG qualifiers
- Dropped from Asian Game qualifiers
- Did not participate MLG Invitational HoTS

(1 1st Place, 1 Semi-Finals, 1Ro16 (but on-going) and two colossal failures)

Innovation:
- 2nd WCS KR
- 1st WCS Finals
- Ro16 WCS KR S2
- Dropped from MLG Qualifiers
- Dropped from Asian Game qualifiers
- Ro4 MLG Invitational HoTS

(1 1st place, 1 runner up, 1 semi finalist, 1 Ro16 on-going and two colossal failures)

SoS:
- Ro4 WCS KR
- 2nd WCS Finals
- Ro32 WCS KR S2
- Did not participate MLG qualifiers
- 1st Asian Games
- Did not participate MLG Invitational HoTS

(1 1st place, 1 Runner up, 1 semi-finalist, 1 RO32, 0 colossal failures)

Flash:
- Ro16 WCS KR
- Did not paritcipate WCS Finals
- Ro16 WCS KR S2
- Did not participate MLG qualifiers
- 2nd Asian Games
- 2nd MLG Invitational

(2 Runner up, 2 RO16 KR (1 of them on-going), 0 colossal failures)

Life
- RO16 WCS KR
- Did not participate WCS KR Finals
- Ro32 WCS KR S2
- Did not participate MLG Spring 2013
- 2nd in Asian Games but forfeited his spot to Flash so... moot.
- 1st MLG Invitational HoTS

(1 1st Place, 1 somewhat runner up, 1 Ro16 WCS KR, 1 Ro32 WCS KR S2, 0 colossal failures)

Tough assessment to make.


I can't agree with your definition of "colossal failure" if losing in WCS KR Ro32 isn't, while not qualifying for MLG or AIMAG is.

For me the list of HOTS accomplishments is like this:
1. Innovation
2. Soulkey
3. sOs
4. Flash (Proleague is arguably as tough as WCS KR, if not harder, and Flash is kicking butt over there)
And nobody else is close to those 4.


Flash has accomplished nothing impressive in HoTs so far. He kept losing to Life & Parting despite terran being quite strong atm, and those players aren't even the top of their races atm. He might be very solid against mid-tier players, but usually fell apart when facing high level opponents, which really explain why he had so many wins (against mediocre players in all kill format) in pl but has not done well in individual league. And nobody thinks Pl is harder than WCS KR except for BW elitists.


somebody likes cherry picking flash's losses haha.
"Give away the stone. Let the oceans take and transmutate this cold and fated anchor. Let the waters kiss and transmutate these leaden grudges into gold. Let go."
EFermi
Profile Joined May 2011
United States165 Posts
July 02 2013 22:50 GMT
#334
On July 03 2013 06:11 painkilla wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 03 2013 05:14 EFermi wrote:
On July 03 2013 03:02 VmY wrote:
On July 03 2013 01:09 EFermi wrote:
Sos won? I really can't believe that. I thought he would fade away into obscurity after losing in the OSL.


Really? He lost 2 games, happens to the best.


I was thinking more about his mental state after getting embarrassed in the WCS S1 finals followed by the failure of OSL so soon after.

On July 03 2013 04:06 LighT. wrote:
Who is the more accomplished Player in HoTS?

Soulkey:
- 1st WCS KR
- Semi-Finals WCS Finals
- Ro16 WCS KR S2
- Dropped from MLG qualifiers
- Dropped from Asian Game qualifiers
- Did not participate MLG Invitational HoTS

(1 1st Place, 1 Semi-Finals, 1Ro16 (but on-going) and two colossal failures)

Innovation:
- 2nd WCS KR
- 1st WCS Finals
- Ro16 WCS KR S2
- Dropped from MLG Qualifiers
- Dropped from Asian Game qualifiers
- Ro4 MLG Invitational HoTS

(1 1st place, 1 runner up, 1 semi finalist, 1 Ro16 on-going and two colossal failures)

SoS:
- Ro4 WCS KR
- 2nd WCS Finals
- Ro32 WCS KR S2
- Did not participate MLG qualifiers
- 1st Asian Games
- Did not participate MLG Invitational HoTS

(1 1st place, 1 Runner up, 1 semi-finalist, 1 RO32, 0 colossal failures)

Flash:
- Ro16 WCS KR
- Did not paritcipate WCS Finals
- Ro16 WCS KR S2
- Did not participate MLG qualifiers
- 2nd Asian Games
- 2nd MLG Invitational

(2 Runner up, 2 RO16 KR (1 of them on-going), 0 colossal failures)

Life
- RO16 WCS KR
- Did not participate WCS KR Finals
- Ro32 WCS KR S2
- Did not participate MLG Spring 2013
- 2nd in Asian Games but forfeited his spot to Flash so... moot.
- 1st MLG Invitational HoTS

(1 1st Place, 1 somewhat runner up, 1 Ro16 WCS KR, 1 Ro32 WCS KR S2, 0 colossal failures)

Tough assessment to make.


I can't agree with your definition of "colossal failure" if losing in WCS KR Ro32 isn't, while not qualifying for MLG or AIMAG is.

For me the list of HOTS accomplishments is like this:
1. Innovation
2. Soulkey
3. sOs
4. Flash (Proleague is arguably as tough as WCS KR, if not harder, and Flash is kicking butt over there)
And nobody else is close to those 4.


Flash has accomplished nothing impressive in HoTs so far. He kept losing to Life & Parting despite terran being quite strong atm, and those players aren't even the top of their races atm. He might be very solid against mid-tier players, but usually fell apart when facing high level opponents, which really explain why he had so many wins (against mediocre players in all kill format) in pl but has not done well in individual league. And nobody thinks Pl is harder than WCS KR except for BW elitists.


Flash 2-0'd Soulkey in the last GSL, and has a positive record against Innovation. Losing to life at MLG when hots was barely released does not show a lack of skill.
GO herO, Bunny, JangBi, Savage, BaBy, Pigbaby, StarDust, RoRo, Flying and Soulkey
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
July 02 2013 22:59 GMT
#335
On July 03 2013 06:34 Abominous wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 03 2013 06:33 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
wut, Flash didn't win?

Still no championship for him in sc2

This is as much of a championship as a weekly Korean tournament :D


I would almost say the same thing for MLG. At least if you win Gold you get exemption from the military, no?
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
July 02 2013 23:00 GMT
#336
On July 03 2013 07:59 StarStruck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 03 2013 06:34 Abominous wrote:
On July 03 2013 06:33 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
wut, Flash didn't win?

Still no championship for him in sc2

This is as much of a championship as a weekly Korean tournament :D


I would almost say the same thing for MLG. At least if you win Gold you get exemption from the military, no?

you don't. Flash said in a recent interview that he still has to go to the military and he won the last one in BW.
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
July 02 2013 23:01 GMT
#337
On July 03 2013 08:00 Shellshock1122 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 03 2013 07:59 StarStruck wrote:
On July 03 2013 06:34 Abominous wrote:
On July 03 2013 06:33 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
wut, Flash didn't win?

Still no championship for him in sc2

This is as much of a championship as a weekly Korean tournament :D


I would almost say the same thing for MLG. At least if you win Gold you get exemption from the military, no?

you don't. Flash said in a recent interview that he still has to go to the military and he won the last one in BW.


boo. :/

As for this:

On July 03 2013 04:06 LighT. wrote:
Who is the more accomplished Player in HoTS?

Soulkey:
- 1st WCS KR
- Semi-Finals WCS Finals
- Ro16 WCS KR S2
- Dropped from MLG qualifiers
- Dropped from Asian Game qualifiers
- Did not participate MLG Invitational HoTS

(1 1st Place, 1 Semi-Finals, 1Ro16 (but on-going) and two colossal failures)

Innovation:
- 2nd WCS KR
- 1st WCS Finals
- Ro16 WCS KR S2
- Dropped from MLG Qualifiers
- Dropped from Asian Game qualifiers
- Ro4 MLG Invitational HoTS

(1 1st place, 1 runner up, 1 semi finalist, 1 Ro16 on-going and two colossal failures)

SoS:
- Ro4 WCS KR
- 2nd WCS Finals
- Ro32 WCS KR S2
- Did not participate MLG qualifiers
- 1st Asian Games
- Did not participate MLG Invitational HoTS

(1 1st place, 1 Runner up, 1 semi-finalist, 1 RO32, 0 colossal failures)

Flash:
- Ro16 WCS KR
- Did not paritcipate WCS Finals
- Ro16 WCS KR S2
- Did not participate MLG qualifiers
- 2nd Asian Games
- 2nd MLG Invitational

(2 Runner up, 2 RO16 KR (1 of them on-going), 0 colossal failures)

Life
- RO16 WCS KR
- Did not participate WCS KR Finals
- Ro32 WCS KR S2
- Did not participate MLG Spring 2013
- 2nd in Asian Games but forfeited his spot to Flash so... moot.
- 1st MLG Invitational HoTS

(1 1st Place, 1 somewhat runner up, 1 Ro16 WCS KR, 1 Ro32 WCS KR S2, 0 colossal failures)

Tough assessment to make.


I'd say the jury is still out on this one. ~_~
sharkie
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Austria18648 Posts
July 02 2013 23:04 GMT
#338
On July 03 2013 08:01 StarStruck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 03 2013 08:00 Shellshock1122 wrote:
On July 03 2013 07:59 StarStruck wrote:
On July 03 2013 06:34 Abominous wrote:
On July 03 2013 06:33 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
wut, Flash didn't win?

Still no championship for him in sc2

This is as much of a championship as a weekly Korean tournament :D


I would almost say the same thing for MLG. At least if you win Gold you get exemption from the military, no?

you don't. Flash said in a recent interview that he still has to go to the military and he won the last one in BW.


boo. :/

As for this:

Show nested quote +
On July 03 2013 04:06 LighT. wrote:
Who is the more accomplished Player in HoTS?

Soulkey:
- 1st WCS KR
- Semi-Finals WCS Finals
- Ro16 WCS KR S2
- Dropped from MLG qualifiers
- Dropped from Asian Game qualifiers
- Did not participate MLG Invitational HoTS

(1 1st Place, 1 Semi-Finals, 1Ro16 (but on-going) and two colossal failures)

Innovation:
- 2nd WCS KR
- 1st WCS Finals
- Ro16 WCS KR S2
- Dropped from MLG Qualifiers
- Dropped from Asian Game qualifiers
- Ro4 MLG Invitational HoTS

(1 1st place, 1 runner up, 1 semi finalist, 1 Ro16 on-going and two colossal failures)

SoS:
- Ro4 WCS KR
- 2nd WCS Finals
- Ro32 WCS KR S2
- Did not participate MLG qualifiers
- 1st Asian Games
- Did not participate MLG Invitational HoTS

(1 1st place, 1 Runner up, 1 semi-finalist, 1 RO32, 0 colossal failures)

Flash:
- Ro16 WCS KR
- Did not paritcipate WCS Finals
- Ro16 WCS KR S2
- Did not participate MLG qualifiers
- 2nd Asian Games
- 2nd MLG Invitational

(2 Runner up, 2 RO16 KR (1 of them on-going), 0 colossal failures)

Life
- RO16 WCS KR
- Did not participate WCS KR Finals
- Ro32 WCS KR S2
- Did not participate MLG Spring 2013
- 2nd in Asian Games but forfeited his spot to Flash so... moot.
- 1st MLG Invitational HoTS

(1 1st Place, 1 somewhat runner up, 1 Ro16 WCS KR, 1 Ro32 WCS KR S2, 0 colossal failures)

Tough assessment to make.


I'd say the jury is still out on this one. ~_~


How is Flash even among the champions lol?
1st places make you successful. Flash has none.
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
July 02 2013 23:08 GMT
#339
wow, casual players #1. First foreign team domination at MLG and now a casual wins this. Can we say the era of Kespa and eSF is truly over?

All hail Zombie Quantic & CMStorm.
painkilla
Profile Joined June 2013
United States695 Posts
July 02 2013 23:30 GMT
#340
On July 03 2013 07:12 theMagus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 03 2013 06:11 painkilla wrote:
On July 03 2013 05:14 EFermi wrote:
On July 03 2013 03:02 VmY wrote:
On July 03 2013 01:09 EFermi wrote:
Sos won? I really can't believe that. I thought he would fade away into obscurity after losing in the OSL.


Really? He lost 2 games, happens to the best.


I was thinking more about his mental state after getting embarrassed in the WCS S1 finals followed by the failure of OSL so soon after.

On July 03 2013 04:06 LighT. wrote:
Who is the more accomplished Player in HoTS?

Soulkey:
- 1st WCS KR
- Semi-Finals WCS Finals
- Ro16 WCS KR S2
- Dropped from MLG qualifiers
- Dropped from Asian Game qualifiers
- Did not participate MLG Invitational HoTS

(1 1st Place, 1 Semi-Finals, 1Ro16 (but on-going) and two colossal failures)

Innovation:
- 2nd WCS KR
- 1st WCS Finals
- Ro16 WCS KR S2
- Dropped from MLG Qualifiers
- Dropped from Asian Game qualifiers
- Ro4 MLG Invitational HoTS

(1 1st place, 1 runner up, 1 semi finalist, 1 Ro16 on-going and two colossal failures)

SoS:
- Ro4 WCS KR
- 2nd WCS Finals
- Ro32 WCS KR S2
- Did not participate MLG qualifiers
- 1st Asian Games
- Did not participate MLG Invitational HoTS

(1 1st place, 1 Runner up, 1 semi-finalist, 1 RO32, 0 colossal failures)

Flash:
- Ro16 WCS KR
- Did not paritcipate WCS Finals
- Ro16 WCS KR S2
- Did not participate MLG qualifiers
- 2nd Asian Games
- 2nd MLG Invitational

(2 Runner up, 2 RO16 KR (1 of them on-going), 0 colossal failures)

Life
- RO16 WCS KR
- Did not participate WCS KR Finals
- Ro32 WCS KR S2
- Did not participate MLG Spring 2013
- 2nd in Asian Games but forfeited his spot to Flash so... moot.
- 1st MLG Invitational HoTS

(1 1st Place, 1 somewhat runner up, 1 Ro16 WCS KR, 1 Ro32 WCS KR S2, 0 colossal failures)

Tough assessment to make.


I c.an't agree with your definition of "colossal failure" if losing in WCS KR Ro32 isn't, while not qualifying for MLG or AIMAG is.

For me the list of HOTS accomplishments is like this:
1. Innovation
2. Soulkey
3. sOs
4. Flash (Proleague is arguably as tough as WCS KR, if not harder, and Flash is kicking butt over there)
And nobody else is close to those 4.


Flash has accomplished nothing impressive in HoTs so far. He kept losing to Life & Parting despite terran being quite strong atm, and those players aren't the top of their races atm. He might be very solid against mid-tier players, but usually fell apart when facing high level opponents, which really explain why he had so many wins (against mediocre players in all kill format) in pl but has not done well in individual league. And nobody thinks Pl is harder than WCS KR except for BW elitists.


somebody likes cherry picking flash's losses haha.


I don't hate Flash, in fact I think to have Flash as a sc2 champion is good for the game. But to see people time and time again try to force his name into a top 3/4 in the world that "are just levels above" the rest while he has not had the results to back it up is quite lame. Flash is an amazing TEAM LEAGUE player because of he has this great stamina that allows him to play many good matchs in a row. However he still has troubles against top competitions in high stake situation, in individual leagues.



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