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On June 27 2013 23:16 dainbramage wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 23:11 FetTerBender wrote:On June 27 2013 23:05 dainbramage wrote:Poll: Group B: How many hellbats will be made?201+ (43) 84% 151-200 (4) 8% 0-49 (2) 4% 101-150 (2) 4% 50-100 (0) 0% 51 total votes Your vote: Group B: How many hellbats will be made? (Vote): 0-49
(Vote): 50-100
(Vote): 101-150
(Vote): 151-200
(Vote): 201+
In all the group B games? The numbers are too little. You know nothing, Jon Snow dainbramage! Wait, ro16 is Bo3 isn't it? I was still operating under the assumption of Bo1 Damnit
So we just assume numbers *2,5 and we are ready to go 
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On June 27 2013 23:19 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 23:11 corumjhaelen wrote:On June 27 2013 23:10 Dalnor wrote:
So Flash vs Innovation is maps 5,6,7? It's on maps favouring hellbat drops I hear. Every map favours hellbat drops.
thatsthejoke.jpg
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On June 27 2013 23:07 Nauseam wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 22:56 Penev wrote:On June 27 2013 22:49 Nauseam wrote:On June 27 2013 22:44 Penev wrote:On June 27 2013 22:40 BlackCompany wrote:On June 27 2013 22:39 Nauseam wrote:On June 27 2013 22:35 BlackCompany wrote:
This is one of the moments where i am considering to uninstall sc2, throw it in a garbage can and never open Teamliquid again.
My god, the beauty that TvT was has succesfully turned into this shit. Maybe its the unwritten law of blizzard that eveyrtime you try to improve one aspect, you completly fuck other aspects... Yes, it's a shame. I feel like TvT nowadays is even more stupid than the good old 4gate vs 4gate days in PvP. They should just remove the biological tag of hellbats. It's just stupid and makes no sense. Why is it mechanical in hellion form but biological in hellbat form? My guess is actually that they just forgot to change it but don't want to admit it because it is pretty stupid. It has to do with Terran being able to go full mech vs Protoss with an harass option. Edit: Among other things ofc. What do you mean? You can still harass with hellbats even if medivacs can't heal them. They kill workers just as fast. It just takes away the retarded aspect that hellbats being healed by medivacs are close to invincible early game. And mech against Protoss is trash, regardless of medivacs being able to heal hellbats or not. Terrans will quickly shy away from that because of the feedbacks. Against Protoss you need to have your mana units to be able to dump their mana. Everyone would go Bio Hellbat (even more). Maybe the solution is to remove the bio tag and make it so that boosts cost energy. As for mech being trash vs Protoss: One of the themes of the beta was trying to make mech viable vs Protoss. I thing the healing thing stems from that period. Don't get me wrong; I don't like the bio tag one bit. Yes, I know that they tried that. But imo they failed. Mech is still trash against Protoss and not really viable at the top level. So removing the bio tag from hellbats would make mech against P even worse, but would it really matter since no one is using mech anyways? And on the other hand, it might actually fix TvT. Not sure though, but worth a try.
The bio tag on hellbats is to give medivacs some synergy with mech as well instead of being a bio only unit. In principle it was a good change imo, because otherwise it would just not be possible to not break medivacs while also keeping drop play interesting for mech.
Of course this was with the idea of having mech being viable in all matchups which they could still do with some easy fixes imo but probably won't. As it stands now hellbat drops are just too strong in TvT, which comes mostly from hellbat heavy play having great transitions there since mech owns in TvT (thus early armory is even useful) and T lacking a unit that can defend against hellbats well. The earlier proposed blueflame tech affecting hellbats is a decent fix I think but they should just let hellbats do 22 vs light before blueflame then 30 afterwards. Hellbat drops are relatively unaffected against Z and P then while scv's and marines need a critical third shot, nerfing them enough early on right there. Transformation servos can be buffed or even given for free though, that is one of the most useless upgrades in the game now.
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On June 27 2013 23:18 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 23:13 goody153 wrote:if bbyong and bomber comes out of group b .. all hell breaks lose  Imagine if Flash and Innovation go all Hellbats and Bomber and Bbyong just defend them. All the people crying to buff hellbats then
oh just please dont .. we lost all the favorite's in r32 we dont want more upsets
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wtf flash vs innovation so early in the tournament 
So interesting to see the ESF names that are now in Ro16!
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On June 27 2013 23:16 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 23:07 Nauseam wrote:On June 27 2013 22:56 Penev wrote:On June 27 2013 22:49 Nauseam wrote:On June 27 2013 22:44 Penev wrote:On June 27 2013 22:40 BlackCompany wrote:On June 27 2013 22:39 Nauseam wrote:On June 27 2013 22:35 BlackCompany wrote:
This is one of the moments where i am considering to uninstall sc2, throw it in a garbage can and never open Teamliquid again.
My god, the beauty that TvT was has succesfully turned into this shit. Maybe its the unwritten law of blizzard that eveyrtime you try to improve one aspect, you completly fuck other aspects... Yes, it's a shame. I feel like TvT nowadays is even more stupid than the good old 4gate vs 4gate days in PvP. They should just remove the biological tag of hellbats. It's just stupid and makes no sense. Why is it mechanical in hellion form but biological in hellbat form? My guess is actually that they just forgot to change it but don't want to admit it because it is pretty stupid. It has to do with Terran being able to go full mech vs Protoss with an harass option. Edit: Among other things ofc. What do you mean? You can still harass with hellbats even if medivacs can't heal them. They kill workers just as fast. It just takes away the retarded aspect that hellbats being healed by medivacs are close to invincible early game. And mech against Protoss is trash, regardless of medivacs being able to heal hellbats or not. Terrans will quickly shy away from that because of the feedbacks. Against Protoss you need to have your mana units to be able to dump their mana. Everyone would go Bio Hellbat (even more). Maybe the solution is to remove the bio tag and make it so that boosts cost energy. As for mech being trash vs Protoss: One of the themes of the beta was trying to make mech viable vs Protoss. I thing the healing thing stems from that period. Don't get me wrong; I don't like the bio tag one bit. Yes, I know that they tried that. But imo they failed. Mech is still trash against Protoss and not really viable at the top level. So removing the bio tag from hellbats would make mech against P even worse, but would it really matter since no one is using mech anyways? And on the other hand, it might actually fix TvT. Not sure though, but worth a try. Ideally, you'd want to have as much variety as possible, you don't want everyone going for the same tech/ strats. SC2 is a work in process, you have to look at this from the game designer point of view imo. Not to say that the heeling thing isn't stupid though, it is. But just removing the bio tag is not in the line of thinking of making the match up more divers.
Full mech may be bad vs P but pretty much any mech unit can be useful when incorporated to the terran bio. Tanks with no siege research are great vs allins, and Mvp has used them very effectively offensively, widow mines are awesome, hellbats are great for a lot of purposes, even thors can be cool sometimes.
This is diverse enough IMO.
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On June 27 2013 23:18 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 23:13 goody153 wrote:if bbyong and bomber comes out of group b .. all hell breaks lose Imagine if Flash and Innovation go all Hellbats and Bomber and Bbyong just defend them. All the people crying to buff hellbats then
Well, Flash is the type of terran that defends against Hellbats with 0 hpm.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On June 27 2013 23:16 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 23:07 Nauseam wrote:On June 27 2013 22:56 Penev wrote:On June 27 2013 22:49 Nauseam wrote:On June 27 2013 22:44 Penev wrote:On June 27 2013 22:40 BlackCompany wrote:On June 27 2013 22:39 Nauseam wrote:On June 27 2013 22:35 BlackCompany wrote:
This is one of the moments where i am considering to uninstall sc2, throw it in a garbage can and never open Teamliquid again.
My god, the beauty that TvT was has succesfully turned into this shit. Maybe its the unwritten law of blizzard that eveyrtime you try to improve one aspect, you completly fuck other aspects... Yes, it's a shame. I feel like TvT nowadays is even more stupid than the good old 4gate vs 4gate days in PvP. They should just remove the biological tag of hellbats. It's just stupid and makes no sense. Why is it mechanical in hellion form but biological in hellbat form? My guess is actually that they just forgot to change it but don't want to admit it because it is pretty stupid. It has to do with Terran being able to go full mech vs Protoss with an harass option. Edit: Among other things ofc. What do you mean? You can still harass with hellbats even if medivacs can't heal them. They kill workers just as fast. It just takes away the retarded aspect that hellbats being healed by medivacs are close to invincible early game. And mech against Protoss is trash, regardless of medivacs being able to heal hellbats or not. Terrans will quickly shy away from that because of the feedbacks. Against Protoss you need to have your mana units to be able to dump their mana. Everyone would go Bio Hellbat (even more). Maybe the solution is to remove the bio tag and make it so that boosts cost energy. As for mech being trash vs Protoss: One of the themes of the beta was trying to make mech viable vs Protoss. I thing the healing thing stems from that period. Don't get me wrong; I don't like the bio tag one bit. Yes, I know that they tried that. But imo they failed. Mech is still trash against Protoss and not really viable at the top level. So removing the bio tag from hellbats would make mech against P even worse, but would it really matter since no one is using mech anyways? And on the other hand, it might actually fix TvT. Not sure though, but worth a try. Ideally, you'd want to have as much variety as possible, you don't want everyone going for the same tech/ strats. SC2 is a work in process, you have to look at this from the game designer point of view imo. Not to say that the heeling thing isn't stupid though, it is. But just removing the bio tag is not in the line of thinking of making the match up more divers.
I want mech to be viable against Protoss too. But what I mean is that you can't fix mech against Protoss in a patch without probably ruining all other match ups too. It need much more fundamental work than that. It is something for LotV in my opinion.
I don't really feel like it is worth it to have TvT in this state(which went from the best mirror match up to this bullshit) just so that mech against P wouldn't be just a tiny bit more trash. No one uses mech against P anyways, so why bother?
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On June 27 2013 23:16 samurai80 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 22:09 DrPandaPhD wrote:On June 27 2013 22:08 Salteador Neo wrote:Rain is the only player godlike enough to advance as protoss for now?  Hasn't like 4 protossess advanced? I come back to this statement. Rain is the only protoss player godlike enough to advance over terrans. Huge difference. Trap and First had only zergs in their groups, PartinG was with 2 toss and a terran and this terran made it in 1st place ez, only Rain was god enough to defeat terrans.
BO1. If SuperNova and PartinG were to play several BO3, I doubt SuperNova would win most of them.
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On June 27 2013 23:26 Nauseam wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 23:16 Penev wrote:On June 27 2013 23:07 Nauseam wrote:On June 27 2013 22:56 Penev wrote:On June 27 2013 22:49 Nauseam wrote:On June 27 2013 22:44 Penev wrote:On June 27 2013 22:40 BlackCompany wrote:On June 27 2013 22:39 Nauseam wrote:On June 27 2013 22:35 BlackCompany wrote:
This is one of the moments where i am considering to uninstall sc2, throw it in a garbage can and never open Teamliquid again.
My god, the beauty that TvT was has succesfully turned into this shit. Maybe its the unwritten law of blizzard that eveyrtime you try to improve one aspect, you completly fuck other aspects... Yes, it's a shame. I feel like TvT nowadays is even more stupid than the good old 4gate vs 4gate days in PvP. They should just remove the biological tag of hellbats. It's just stupid and makes no sense. Why is it mechanical in hellion form but biological in hellbat form? My guess is actually that they just forgot to change it but don't want to admit it because it is pretty stupid. It has to do with Terran being able to go full mech vs Protoss with an harass option. Edit: Among other things ofc. What do you mean? You can still harass with hellbats even if medivacs can't heal them. They kill workers just as fast. It just takes away the retarded aspect that hellbats being healed by medivacs are close to invincible early game. And mech against Protoss is trash, regardless of medivacs being able to heal hellbats or not. Terrans will quickly shy away from that because of the feedbacks. Against Protoss you need to have your mana units to be able to dump their mana. Everyone would go Bio Hellbat (even more). Maybe the solution is to remove the bio tag and make it so that boosts cost energy. As for mech being trash vs Protoss: One of the themes of the beta was trying to make mech viable vs Protoss. I thing the healing thing stems from that period. Don't get me wrong; I don't like the bio tag one bit. Yes, I know that they tried that. But imo they failed. Mech is still trash against Protoss and not really viable at the top level. So removing the bio tag from hellbats would make mech against P even worse, but would it really matter since no one is using mech anyways? And on the other hand, it might actually fix TvT. Not sure though, but worth a try. Ideally, you'd want to have as much variety as possible, you don't want everyone going for the same tech/ strats. SC2 is a work in process, you have to look at this from the game designer point of view imo. Not to say that the heeling thing isn't stupid though, it is. But just removing the bio tag is not in the line of thinking of making the match up more divers. I want mech to be viable against Protoss too. But what I mean is that you can't fix mech against Protoss in a patch without probably ruining all other match ups too. It need much more fundamental work than that. It is something for LotV in my opinion. I don't really feel like it is worth it to have TvT in this state(which went from the best mirror match up to this bullshit) just so that mech against P wouldn't be just a tiny bit more trash. No one uses mech against P anyways, so why bother?
I agree but removing the bio tag in this case is not a good solution imo. It's better to do something about the dps, for instance the pre igniter thing.
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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
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except the maps arnt added yet.....
I ahve a screenshot thou and plan to add the maps later if no one else does it before me
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htf where those groups drawn?
I wanted 7 terrans on the ro8.
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On June 27 2013 23:34 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 23:26 Nauseam wrote:On June 27 2013 23:16 Penev wrote:On June 27 2013 23:07 Nauseam wrote:On June 27 2013 22:56 Penev wrote:On June 27 2013 22:49 Nauseam wrote:On June 27 2013 22:44 Penev wrote:On June 27 2013 22:40 BlackCompany wrote:On June 27 2013 22:39 Nauseam wrote:On June 27 2013 22:35 BlackCompany wrote:
This is one of the moments where i am considering to uninstall sc2, throw it in a garbage can and never open Teamliquid again.
My god, the beauty that TvT was has succesfully turned into this shit. Maybe its the unwritten law of blizzard that eveyrtime you try to improve one aspect, you completly fuck other aspects... Yes, it's a shame. I feel like TvT nowadays is even more stupid than the good old 4gate vs 4gate days in PvP. They should just remove the biological tag of hellbats. It's just stupid and makes no sense. Why is it mechanical in hellion form but biological in hellbat form? My guess is actually that they just forgot to change it but don't want to admit it because it is pretty stupid. It has to do with Terran being able to go full mech vs Protoss with an harass option. Edit: Among other things ofc. What do you mean? You can still harass with hellbats even if medivacs can't heal them. They kill workers just as fast. It just takes away the retarded aspect that hellbats being healed by medivacs are close to invincible early game. And mech against Protoss is trash, regardless of medivacs being able to heal hellbats or not. Terrans will quickly shy away from that because of the feedbacks. Against Protoss you need to have your mana units to be able to dump their mana. Everyone would go Bio Hellbat (even more). Maybe the solution is to remove the bio tag and make it so that boosts cost energy. As for mech being trash vs Protoss: One of the themes of the beta was trying to make mech viable vs Protoss. I thing the healing thing stems from that period. Don't get me wrong; I don't like the bio tag one bit. Yes, I know that they tried that. But imo they failed. Mech is still trash against Protoss and not really viable at the top level. So removing the bio tag from hellbats would make mech against P even worse, but would it really matter since no one is using mech anyways? And on the other hand, it might actually fix TvT. Not sure though, but worth a try. Ideally, you'd want to have as much variety as possible, you don't want everyone going for the same tech/ strats. SC2 is a work in process, you have to look at this from the game designer point of view imo. Not to say that the heeling thing isn't stupid though, it is. But just removing the bio tag is not in the line of thinking of making the match up more divers. I want mech to be viable against Protoss too. But what I mean is that you can't fix mech against Protoss in a patch without probably ruining all other match ups too. It need much more fundamental work than that. It is something for LotV in my opinion. I don't really feel like it is worth it to have TvT in this state(which went from the best mirror match up to this bullshit) just so that mech against P wouldn't be just a tiny bit more trash. No one uses mech against P anyways, so why bother? I agree but removing the bio tag in this case is not a good solution imo. It's better to do something about the dps, for instance the pre igniter thing.
Yes, maybe you are right. At this point almost everything is worth a try.
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On June 27 2013 22:57 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 22:55 Kommander wrote:On June 27 2013 22:54 Thrillz wrote:
OK WE ARE GOING TO HAVE ALL TvT groups. Silly selections. LOL. All TvT groups used to be "fuck yeah!" now it's "fuck nooooo!!" Thats somewhat familiar lol.
It's because we have Bomber with all the TvT monsters.
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On June 27 2013 23:09 remember87 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 23:08 sitromit wrote:
Soulkey lucked out with the draw, he'll be the only Zerg in ro8. I think Losira has a chance of getting out too..
He will not win a single map.
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On June 28 2013 00:02 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 23:09 remember87 wrote:On June 27 2013 23:08 sitromit wrote:
Soulkey lucked out with the draw, he'll be the only Zerg in ro8. I think Losira has a chance of getting out too.. He will not win a single map.
Ro8 player vs a bunch of newcomers. I think he has a chance.
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On June 28 2013 00:04 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 00:02 sitromit wrote:On June 27 2013 23:09 remember87 wrote:On June 27 2013 23:08 sitromit wrote:
Soulkey lucked out with the draw, he'll be the only Zerg in ro8. I think Losira has a chance of getting out too.. He will not win a single map. Ro8 player vs a bunch of newcomers. I think he has a chance.
Did you just call SuperNova "newcomer"?
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EPT
