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On May 07 2013 22:26 Ragnarork wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 22:25 opterown wrote:On May 07 2013 22:23 Charlie.Sheen wrote:On May 07 2013 22:21 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2013 22:21 opterown wrote:On May 07 2013 22:20 Nebuchad wrote:On May 07 2013 22:16 DamageControL wrote:On May 07 2013 22:13 scr wrote:On May 07 2013 22:10 Zeon0 wrote:
Kespa owning... 5 Kespa players in ro8 atm (if you count Parting) yeah that really sounds like owning :D It's 5/6...so it'll sound like it. But it will likely also be 5/8 which is less dominating. PartinG isn't kespa, and anyway we really shouldn't care where people come from as long as they show good games... No idea why we would. parting is kespa, he's just not an elephant Pretty sure when people start these kespa wars they're refering to the elephants, no? If not it makes even less sense. Just to make eSF fans mad, that's the whole purpose. Sense is out of the window long time ago in TL. yeah i don't think there are that many actual kespa fans, more esf baiters The point of being a "KeSPA" fan (as the organisation thing) eludes me...
There is a point to being a KeSPA fan.
I strongly believe that in the long tern, it is necessary to have an organizing body that operates independently (at least, relatively speaking) from the content creators. KeSPA fills that role, and to me, GOM became the polar opposite.
It is nice and pretty when Blizzard pours millions on dollars to promote the game you like, but it won't be so pretty when they decide you should be playing something else. Their shenanigans against KeSPA should be a warning of what can eventually happen to SCII. KeSPA had no reason to discontinue Brood War, and under the right circumstances, could have helped Blizzard in breeding the Starcraft II scene into something better than the mess WCS has become.
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I thought that pretty much everyone agreed that KeSPA was the big bad evil. That's at least what I got from reading the threads about it before and during the switch.
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On May 07 2013 22:20 Scarecrow wrote:
That SH game makes me worry about the future of the mu. Sure you can go for the super late ultimate protoss army (MS, carrier, tempest, collossus, templar, void w. oracle spotter) but for the viewer it'll be the equivalent of watching a hero jungle till 25 for perfect items.
When said similar thing year ago, most would reply "lets wait for Hots".
ZvP in SC2 is one of the least flexible "grand" MUs (TvZ, TvP, ZvP). And its hard to break the established route of that MU (massing up units/ mass static defense) with use of special units. Why? Because in SC2 macro power is winning power, its hard to break centralized macro power and a-move power.
That's why TvZ in HotS looks great because in that MU the heavy macro allignments are shattered with almost equally hard unit synergy of the Opponent (which is Afterburner Medivac play for example). Its akin to BW Protoss Reaver/Shuttle that breakes the rhythm of MU in good way, entartaining way.
Basically the strong harass potential is only way to normalize the MU, and with SC2 zerg and protoss traits they are not compatible harass partners. Bisu's ZvP in BW was made from harass, the harass became the defining idea behind modern PvZ. Protoss and Zerg in SC2 are weak in harass department, we don't see baneling drops anymore, and DTs are much weaker so are templar drops.
In the match we saw 8-10 zealot warpins that were headbuting into wall of spines, a very marginal harass. Some could say "but hello, why there are no 2 prisms running around and warping dt/high templar". Well when both sides are more or less equal in strenght they contest it in midfield and in midfield we saw a swarm of locust attacking the deathball of protoss, if that deathball had 800 less gas and minerals the automatic units may get too much cost-effectivess, so in a way the locusts keeps protoss from overextanding. In a way almost every deathball keeps opponent from overextending (ironically). The reasons for that were already described long ago.
When people start thinking "how to beat this deathball" and not "how to overwhelm him, mechanically/strategically" it becomes a problem, it reminds me of Hydra roach in 2011 when zerg scratches his head "should i make 11 or 14 corruptors"?
People should read Final Edit about Savior. Well back then Savior didn't ask himself "how do i beat this deathball", he asked himself "how can i outmaneuver/outsmart him or maybe i can make him commit to mistake?" Ironically the very same happened to Savior but from Bisu's hands.
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I don't get all the hate, I would definitely recommend Final Match Game 1, history was written and new metagame was created.
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On May 07 2013 23:41 AlternativeEgo wrote:
I thought that pretty much everyone agreed that KeSPA was the big bad evil. That's at least what I got from reading the threads about it before and during the switch.
Because people who joined TL after 2010 believed what a very vocal group kept repeating. So it became "wikiality". The GOM problem didn't help, but IMO it was also a case of GOM being crybabies (look how far Sonic has gone with amateurs/retired pros).
KeSPA are no saints, but at the end of the day they do learn from their fuckups, even if slowly. At the end, its still better than being tethered to Blizzard's will.
Not every organizing body has to be like KeSPA, but KeSPA is still an example of how far you can go when you get proper support and sponsorship independently from Blizzard/Riot/whatever. In that regard, I think the FGC is closer to ESPORTS (post-Blizzard) to become eSports (pre-Blizzard).
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opterown
Australia54747 Posts
On May 07 2013 23:45 Gorribal wrote:
I don't get all the hate, I would definitely recommend Final Match Game 1, history was written and new metagame was created.
it just took a realllyyy looonnggg time
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opterown
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On May 07 2013 23:48 VManOfMana wrote:
Because people who joined TL after 2010 believed what a very vocal group kept repeating. So it became "wikiality".
KeSPA are no saints, but at the end of the day they do learn from their fuckups, even if slowly. At the end, its still better than being tethered to Blizzard's will.
Not every organizing body has to be like KeSPA, but KeSPA is still an example of how far you can go when you get proper support and sponsorship independently from Blizzard/Riot/whatever. In that regard, I think the FGC is closer to ESPORTS (post-Blizzard) to become eSports (pre-Blizzard).
the thing with kespa is that they can only manage korean esports, not international esports, which is probably more important than korean esports to keep the scene "alive" so to speak
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On May 07 2013 23:49 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 23:48 VManOfMana wrote:
Because people who joined TL after 2010 believed what a very vocal group kept repeating. So it became "wikiality".
KeSPA are no saints, but at the end of the day they do learn from their fuckups, even if slowly. At the end, its still better than being tethered to Blizzard's will.
Not every organizing body has to be like KeSPA, but KeSPA is still an example of how far you can go when you get proper support and sponsorship independently from Blizzard/Riot/whatever. In that regard, I think the FGC is closer to ESPORTS (post-Blizzard) to become eSports (pre-Blizzard). the thing with kespa is that they can only manage korean esports, not international esports, which is probably more important than korean esports to keep the scene "alive" so to speak
And nothing stops other countries to have their own KeSPA. It's not like FIFA is the only soccer organization. MLG and Dreamhack is probably the closest thing, bit they are too close to Blizzard to be good examples
If you ask me, WCS should be an invitational of regional champions, each tournament with their organizing body and rules.
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opterown
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On May 07 2013 23:52 VManOfMana wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 23:49 opterown wrote:On May 07 2013 23:48 VManOfMana wrote:
Because people who joined TL after 2010 believed what a very vocal group kept repeating. So it became "wikiality".
KeSPA are no saints, but at the end of the day they do learn from their fuckups, even if slowly. At the end, its still better than being tethered to Blizzard's will.
Not every organizing body has to be like KeSPA, but KeSPA is still an example of how far you can go when you get proper support and sponsorship independently from Blizzard/Riot/whatever. In that regard, I think the FGC is closer to ESPORTS (post-Blizzard) to become eSports (pre-Blizzard). the thing with kespa is that they can only manage korean esports, not international esports, which is probably more important than korean esports to keep the scene "alive" so to speak And nothing stops other countries to have their own KeSPA. It's not like FIFA is the only soccer organization. MLG and Dreamhack is probably the closest thing, bit they are too close to Blizzard to be good examples.
i don't think sc2 is quite at that level to have such organisations haha. it would need to be like... tennis popularity level to have solid national organisations imo
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On May 07 2013 23:54 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 23:52 VManOfMana wrote:On May 07 2013 23:49 opterown wrote:On May 07 2013 23:48 VManOfMana wrote:
Because people who joined TL after 2010 believed what a very vocal group kept repeating. So it became "wikiality".
KeSPA are no saints, but at the end of the day they do learn from their fuckups, even if slowly. At the end, its still better than being tethered to Blizzard's will.
Not every organizing body has to be like KeSPA, but KeSPA is still an example of how far you can go when you get proper support and sponsorship independently from Blizzard/Riot/whatever. In that regard, I think the FGC is closer to ESPORTS (post-Blizzard) to become eSports (pre-Blizzard). the thing with kespa is that they can only manage korean esports, not international esports, which is probably more important than korean esports to keep the scene "alive" so to speak And nothing stops other countries to have their own KeSPA. It's not like FIFA is the only soccer organization. MLG and Dreamhack is probably the closest thing, bit they are too close to Blizzard to be good examples. i don't think sc2 is quite at that level to have such organisations haha. it would need to be like... tennis popularity level to have solid national organisations imo
Nothing is built in a day. The FGC has managed to consistently increase its size every year. Of course not at the rate millions of investment dollars would gve you, but now you got groups like Cafe ID helping Korean players travel around the world (and do pretty damn good). Even in Japan, community-based groups have risen to pick up the slack after the fall of Tougeki.
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On May 07 2013 23:41 AlternativeEgo wrote:
I thought that pretty much everyone agreed that KeSPA was the big bad evil. That's at least what I got from reading the threads about it before and during the switch.
I don't think you've read everything then. ;/
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On May 08 2013 00:02 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 23:41 AlternativeEgo wrote:
I thought that pretty much everyone agreed that KeSPA was the big bad evil. That's at least what I got from reading the threads about it before and during the switch. I don't think you've read everything then. ;/
Well it was the majority and then you :p
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On May 07 2013 23:41 AlternativeEgo wrote:
I thought that pretty much everyone agreed that KeSPA was the big bad evil. That's at least what I got from reading the threads about it before and during the switch.
What? KeSPA pretty much created the Starcraft eSports scene..
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On May 08 2013 00:03 AlternativeEgo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2013 00:02 StarStruck wrote:On May 07 2013 23:41 AlternativeEgo wrote:
I thought that pretty much everyone agreed that KeSPA was the big bad evil. That's at least what I got from reading the threads about it before and during the switch. I don't think you've read everything then. ;/ Well it was the majority and then you :p
If you stayed in the SC2 forum, sure.
TL really suffered a case of reddit-like hivemind in the early days of SC2.
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phu ... was scared of roro ^^ my damn favorite
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Flying noooo
god damnit  (
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Soulkey and Roro were the obvious players to go through
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I expected more from Yoda tbh. But glad the champion didn't fall too soon.
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wow all the newbs that just got into star craft in the past few years thinking kespa is evil and not to root for them...smh
don't you realize Kespa not only shaped the scene you follow today but also pretty much made it
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Glad about these results. Soulkey just played wonderfully. Such great unit control.
Surprised that Flying played that well actually. Yoda just had one of his off days, so his results were expected.
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EPT
