On March 30 2013 05:05 Dodgin wrote: Azubu capitalizing their whole name is so obnoxious, god damn it.
Yep. TRUE and NAKSEO are incredibly obnoxious for the same reason
so is MCXD mang ;D
Yeah but MCXD is an acronym, sort of, not just "THIS WORD IS LOUD". (Specifically it's my initials, MC, followed by XD as in the emoticon. It's pretty bad - It has nothing to do with the pro-gamer MC, infact)
Plus if I was to become a pro-gamer rather than a bronzy, I'd probably change my ID anyway =P
I find it funny that they loved that parking lot shot SO MUCH (earlier in the song) that they decided to use it despite having to blur our the shop name in a somewhat distracting fashion.
On March 30 2013 13:06 Dodgin wrote: That is really weird, is it a browser addon screwing with the scripts?
Ive tried disabling/uninstalling all addons (weather, adblock, nothing weird) but it still remains. Not much of an issue but it messes with my eyes. Looks normal on IE lol
GSTL 2013 Season 1 2013.3.30 AZUBU vs Prime Game 1: SuperNova vs ByuN on DMZ SuperNova @ 5 as Red T, ByuN @ 11 as Blue T
3:00: both players open fast gas and fast factory, then fast Starport. 5:00: Widow Mine play for ByuN and SuperNova goes Hellions, a small skirmish in middle of the map, medivac with a Widow Mine heading for SuperNova's main, SN has a bunker and several marines to defend it, banshee heading into ByuN's main.
On March 30 2013 13:25 digmouse wrote: GSTL 2013 Season 1 2013.3.30 AZUBU vs Prime Game 1: SuperNova vs ByuN on DMZ SuperNova @ 5 as Red T, ByuN @ 11 as Blue T
3:00: both players open fast gas and fast factory, then fast Starport. 5:00: Widow Mine play for ByuN and SuperNova goes Hellions, a small skirmish in middle of the map, medivac with a Widow Mine heading for SuperNova's main, SN has a bunker and several marines to defend it, banshee heading into ByuN's main.
8:00: Cloak is done for ByuN, both players start their second CC, Stim on the way for SN, amd his hellion run by did considerable damage, both players are at surprising low supply now. 10:00 ByuN already had 20 worker kills, starts his 3rd CC, tank and banshee production continues, SuperNova adds more Barracks, his drop into Byun's nat is defended. 13:00 ByuN now has over 50 supply advantage, sensor tower at his main, double ebay almost finishing 1/1 while SN just start his +1 infantry attack. Stim almost done for ByuN. SN's drop was scouted again. 16:00 ByuN double drops into SN's main while attacking into SN's nat, but SN had 4 tanks sieging up, holding for now, but his main was crippled, 2/2 on the way for ByuN. 18:00 ByuN drops on top of SN's tanks, SN ggs! ByuN wins game 1!
On March 30 2013 13:30 Mattumsfox wrote: Why do they keep saying if you target with the widowmine? I thought you can't target it or is there something I'm missing?
You can target them. It has like a 1.5 sec cast time where you can target
On March 30 2013 13:30 Mattumsfox wrote: Why do they keep saying if you target with the widowmine? I thought you can't target it or is there something I'm missing?
If you select the widowmine and right click on a specific target it will target that instead of the "nearest" target. So you can control the widow mines shot but it is limited.
Apparently every day at this time my internet will become slow as hell and I will be watching the vods instead of it live even though im right here with plenty of time to watch...
On March 30 2013 13:33 Dodgin wrote: Supernova is just hoping Byun pulls all his scv's, sits in the middle of the map for 5 minutes and a-moves into 20 tanks.
I remember Ensnare did something similar to that on Crossfire once against a Protoss while he was doing a 1/1/1, he pulled all of his scvs and just sat in the middle doing nothing giving the Protoss more time to prepare... thats when I knew that Ensare's career was over :D
GSTL 2013 Season 1 2013.3.30 AZUBU vs Prime Game 2: Vines vs ByuN on Bel'Shir Vestige SE VINES @ 10 as Red P, ByuN @ 4 as Blue T
3:00 ByuN opens reaper follow up by tech lab on rax, VINES opens double gas. Reaper goes into Vines' main, Vines' probe saw the tech lab and 2nd CC of ByuN, then puts down his nat. 6:00 MsC out for Vines, Robo on the way, ByuN starts very fast +1 infantry attack, stim is also very fast, 2 more reactors goes up, Vines pumps Immortals out of his Robo, and his hallu phoenix sees everything, and ByuN's reaper did the same thing. 9:00 Double upgrade for Vines, ByuN already starting his +1 armor, colossus starting for Vines, ByuN pushes out with a lot of marines and 2 medivacs, he load those and drop into Vine's main, and with great marine split he kills the colossus, the drop did great damage and give ByuN 30 supply advantage. 12:00 3rd CC starting for ByuN, Vines adding on more gateways. ByuN quad-drop into Vine's main and the Protoss ggs! ByuN wins game 2!
Rofl this is so bad. I can play better than this. How the fuck did he lose to a standard 11 minute 2 medivac timing??? PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DOING THIS EVERY SINGLE GAME SINCE 2012!!!! wtfff
On March 30 2013 13:58 mrRoflpwn wrote: Rofl this is so bad. I can play better than this. How the fuck did he lose to a standard 11 minute 2 medivac timing??? PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DOING THIS EVERY SINGLE GAME SINCE 2012!!!! wtfff
On March 30 2013 13:58 mrRoflpwn wrote: Rofl this is so bad. I can play better than this. How the fuck did he lose to a standard 11 minute 2 medivac timing??? PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DOING THIS EVERY SINGLE GAME SINCE 2012!!!! wtfff
On March 30 2013 13:58 mrRoflpwn wrote: Rofl this is so bad. I can play better than this. How the fuck did he lose to a standard 11 minute 2 medivac timing??? PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DOING THIS EVERY SINGLE GAME SINCE 2012!!!! wtfff
On March 30 2013 13:58 Doublemint wrote: lol - not sure if Byun gosu or Vines just terrible.
byun has the second highest winrate on ladder after innovation, over 70% atm i think
18-1 against protoss
And that's only because Bogus has been laddering as Z for the past few days lol
He's not laddering as Zerg. He just switched accounts with Hyvaa. If you look just at the Terran statistics on both accounts, you can see his actual win rates.
But really, this is a bit of a poor choice by AZUBU. Because they picked Vines and San, they restricted their choices to just viOLet or Symbol, but not both.
GSTL 2013 Season 1 2013.3.30 AZUBU vs Prime Game 3: San vs ByuN on Whirlwind
San @ 10 as red P, ByuN @ 4 as blue T. 2:00 CC first for ByuN, San goes double gas. 2 rax starting for ByuN, both playing normal. 5:00 San pushes with MsC, Zealot and a Stalker, both players scout late, ByuN puts down 3rd CC and San throws down his nat Nexus. San's MsC Stalker and Zealot poke is denied by ByuN's superb Marine micro. 7:00 San puts down a Forge, Robo done, starting an obs, Stim starting for ByuN, Twilight for San, Factory for ByuN. 9:00 Templar Archives almost done for San, Charge halfway, starts Storm immediately after TA is done. ByuN floats his 3rd CC. San puts down 4 more gateways, he is going for a big attack. 11:00 San shows his army and Storm, ByuN puts down Ghost Acadamy, counter attacks into San's nat, ByuN engages San out of his nat but San's Templar storms behind. 13:00 San attacks into ByuN's nat but ByuN pulls scvs, his 2 bunkers built earlier help him survive, all Templars are gone and ByuN triple drops into San's main, San counter attacks too, action going everywhere on the map. 17:00 ByuN destroys San's main and defends the Protoss' attack, San taps out!
On March 30 2013 14:02 PhoenixVoid wrote: But really, this is a bit of a poor choice by AZUBU. Because they picked Vines and San, they restricted their choices to just viOLet or Symbol, but not both.
On March 30 2013 14:02 PhoenixVoid wrote: But really, this is a bit of a poor choice by AZUBU. Because they picked Vines and San, they restricted their choices to just viOLet or Symbol, but not both.
Why do people think Symbol will do well? Was something mentioned earlier about him in HotS?
Seems like he wouldn't be that good yet considering he was probably one of the last to fully switch, and just Symbol's style in general seems like it would be difficult to transition from into HotS zerg.
On March 30 2013 14:07 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Why do people think Symbol will do well? Was something mentioned earlier about him in HotS?
Seems like he wouldn't be that good yet considering he was probably one of the last to fully switch, and just Symbol's style in general seems like it would be difficult to transition from into HotS zerg.
Symbol has been a fairly solid player throughout, and even though the BL/Infestor style he loved so much is virtually dead, he has shown some proficiency with other compositions in the past.
On March 30 2013 14:19 tuho12345 wrote: San made way too many mistakes
nah... it was just that there was no plan b with this insanely unflexible build. The execution was quite alright - maybe lost a HT though even then byun would have been fine with like 4 CCs.
Symbol's ZvT has been consistently strong, so he has a decent chance against ByuN. If I were Gerrard, I would choose Creator next to counter Symbol's relatively weak ZvP.
On March 30 2013 14:23 PhoenixVoid wrote: Symbol's ZvT has been consistently strong, so he has a decent chance against ByuN. If I were Gerrard, I would choose Creator next to counter Symbol's relatively weak ZvP.
He's going to pick Warhound to a move with haywire missiles
Breaking News: After Anna Kendrick reveals she plays SC2, EG has Hired Anna Kendrick for EGTL for her skills. Koreans too OP at having beautiful ladies at tournaments. Must strike back somehow.
I was acting the part of someone defending the IM coach for sending Yonghwa First Seed etc before they broke out, I guess it doesn't work with this team huh.
On March 30 2013 14:23 PhoenixVoid wrote: Symbol's ZvT has been consistently strong, so he has a decent chance against ByuN. If I were Gerrard, I would choose Creator next to counter Symbol's relatively weak ZvP.
I think you throw out Maru if he's feeling okay to get him some time in the booth, and then rely on Creator-->MKP to finish it if things get hairy. With such a lead, I could see Gerrard giving Maru a pressure free match.
On March 30 2013 14:24 Dodgin wrote: I was acting the part of someone defending the IM coach for sending Yonghwa First Seed etc before they broke out, I guess it doesn't work with this team huh.
not until they get all killed by a foreigner. Lucky Scarlett and SortOf are there to attempt to save AZUBU
On March 30 2013 14:22 ThePianoDentist wrote: what game was that they were just referencing, missed the start of the conversation
LG-IM vs TSL go watch it if you haven't.
only if you really like zerg though
some games were individually pretty good though haha
Oh, yeah, that was right after the queen patch and no one had adjusted to 6 queen builds yet, and Zerg was only losing to Zerg in GSTL. They had like a 90% win rate in GSTL against non-Zergs.
On March 30 2013 14:24 Dodgin wrote: I was acting the part of someone defending the IM coach for sending Yonghwa First Seed etc before they broke out, I guess it doesn't work with this team huh.
On March 30 2013 14:30 Dodgin wrote: Byun has only played like 50 ladder games?
But does this really matter when your in a training house ? Not to mention he might have another account we don't know off.
I really doubt Prime practices in-house a lot, they aren't exactly a huge team. Most players say in interviews they mainly practice on ladder, who knows though.
I think that now that barcodes have become so commonplace you can't really ever be sure about anybody's play experience from ladder rankings on their "main" account.
It's too easy for them to have a way to completely hide their practice/laddering etc.
On March 30 2013 14:30 Dodgin wrote: Byun has only played like 50 ladder games?
But does this really matter when your in a training house ? Not to mention he might have another account we don't know off.
I really doubt Prime practices in-house a lot, they aren't exactly a huge team. Most players say in interviews they mainly practice on ladder, who knows though.
If I remember right back during the slayers drama they said Prime was like the one team that practiced with just everyone. Also quite a few Kespa players cited practicing with Prime players around the time of the switch, so they probably just practice with anyone that wants to play with them
On March 30 2013 14:30 Dodgin wrote: Byun has only played like 50 ladder games?
But does this really matter when your in a training house ? Not to mention he might have another account we don't know off.
I really doubt Prime practices in-house a lot, they aren't exactly a huge team. Most players say in interviews they mainly practice on ladder, who knows though.
If I remember right back during the slayers drama they said Prime was like the one team that practiced with just everyone. Also quite a few Kespa players cited practicing with Prime players around the time of the switch, so they probably just practice with anyone that wants to play with them
yeah i remember rain and jaehoon thanking creator for teaching them stuff. aria on WJS too
On March 30 2013 14:30 Dodgin wrote: Byun has only played like 50 ladder games?
But does this really matter when your in a training house ? Not to mention he might have another account we don't know off.
I really doubt Prime practices in-house a lot, they aren't exactly a huge team. Most players say in interviews they mainly practice on ladder, who knows though.
Idk when practising for a specific series or a team-match even a smaller team probably still does alot of in-house practise combined with ladder.
On March 30 2013 14:22 opterown wrote: it's ok byun is like 12-2 against zerg
18-1 vs Protoss... 12-2 vs Zerg... Really doesn't sound very fair at all lol
This is in GSTL? Hots?
ladder on his byunprime account
On ladder? I wouldn't look in to that too much. You don't really know who he is playing against and there will likely be a balance patch after the upcoming GSL season. GomTvT until then :p
On March 30 2013 14:31 infKelsier wrote: i'm so sad San lost.
I'm going to have a bath, listen to some harry potter audio books and then go to sleep
which book should I listen to?
The Two Towers.
HARRY POTTER I SAID
HOW DARE YOU!
Prisoner of Azkaban.
Obviously best book.
Lupin obviously best character.
Easily most inconsistent book and inconsistent character. Dude just summons fire with no freaking wand, a power that only Dumbledore also demonstrates in the series, and then doesn't even get a death scene. And don't start me on time turners...
On March 30 2013 14:22 opterown wrote: it's ok byun is like 12-2 against zerg
18-1 vs Protoss... 12-2 vs Zerg... Really doesn't sound very fair at all lol
This is in GSTL? Hots?
ladder on his byunprime account
On ladder? I wouldn't look in to that too much. You don't really know who he is playing against and there will likely be a balance patch after the upcoming GSL season. GomTvT until then :p
you can stalk match histories to work out who he's playing against. it's a whole lotta ||||||||||| but they're all fairly good GM players last i checked
GSTL 2013 Season 1 2013.3.30 AZUBU vs Prime Game 4: Symbol vs ByuN on Akilon Wastes
2:00 Hatch first for Symol, gas opening and a Reaper follow up for ByuN, Pool and gas starting for Symbol, ByuN puts down CC on low ground. 5:00 drone pull off gas after ling speed, 3rd CC starting for ByuN before Symbol's 3rd Hatch, Symbol starts a lot of lings. Ling speed done for Symbol, chases the reaper from the watch tower. 3 Hellions pushing the lings back. 8:00 Stim half way done, +1 infantry attack starting, while Symbol starts 1/1 for lings, 3rd, Lair and Baneling Nest. 10:00 Spire and Baneling speed for Symbol, he morphs 20 baneling in middle of the map, speed finishing in a second, he busts into ByuN's nat and 3rd, kills 18 scvs. 12:00 Symbol gets a lot of Mutas, starting +1 air attack and 4th, engagement in middle of the map while ByuN dropping into Symbol's main, ByuN's main force attacking into Symbol's 4th and kills it. 14:00 ByuN already starting +3 attack, Symbol remakes his 4th and getting 2/2 for lings, ByuN starts 4th CC and continues Bio-Mine drop and pushes. 16:00 Symbol getting Swarm Hosts, starting Locust life upgrade, Hive on the way. ByuN lost some forces in middle of map. 18:00 Engagement in middle, great split and mine hits reduces damage dealt. Scan reveals the Swarm Hosts, ByuN can't push into Symbol's 4th. 21:00 Double drop into Symbol's main killes the Greater Spire, but Symbol puts down Ultralisk Cavern. ByuN throws down 2 more CCs and starting Building Armor. ByuN kills a lot of Symbol's Infestors. 22:30 Massive doom drop into Symbol's main, but Symbol cleans it up. 25:00 Ultras are out for Symbol, ByuN continues dropping into Symbol's main but couldn't get damage done, he is starting to throw away scvs. 27:00 Symbol's massive Ultra-Viper-Infestor army pushing out, ByuN falls back to his planetary. 29:00 Massive mine hit on the Ultras and they don't even care, ByuN is pushed back again, a wall of Spines starting at Symbol's 5th. An Ultra finds ByuN's 5th Planetary. Brood Lord out for Symbol as well. 31:00 ByuN continues dropping and kills Symbol's Hive. His attack into Symbol's 5th is deflected again. 33:00 ByuN's drops never stop while small skirmishes happen around Symbol's bases, but Symbol defends them with minimal losses every time. Symbol denies ByuN's top base and takes it himself. 36:00 Drops continue denying Symbol's last mining base, and killing all Symbol's tech, spreading the Zerg thinner and thinner. 38:00 Symbol isn't producing anything while ByuN starts yet another CC, and continues dropping everywhere. 40:00 ByuN starting 3 Starports, transitioning to Air play. Symbol takes out ByuN's top 2 bases but ByuN picks off Symbol's last mining base. 42:00 Massive Raven production starting for ByuN, Symbol is losing building and army everywhere. 45:00 Symbol's Corruptors denies ByuN's drop for the first time in this game, ByuN has around 10 Ravens by now, retakes top base. The Widow Mines already had Drilling Claws. 48:00 Symbol takes bottom base but he doesn't have drones to mine it. Fungal on the Ravens, the Seeker Missiles hit 2 overseers. 51:00 The final battle! Widow Mines and Seeker Missiles take out everything Symbol has, Symbol drops to 50 supply and ggs out! ByuN all kills AZUBU!
On March 30 2013 14:31 infKelsier wrote: i'm so sad San lost.
I'm going to have a bath, listen to some harry potter audio books and then go to sleep
which book should I listen to?
The Two Towers.
HARRY POTTER I SAID
HOW DARE YOU!
Prisoner of Azkaban.
Obviously best book.
Lupin obviously best character.
Easily most inconsistent book and inconsistent character. Dude just summons fire with no freaking wand, a power that only Dumbledore also demonstrates in the series, and then doesn't even get a death scene. And don't start me on time turners...
But I digress.
Alright, the lack of death scene upset me a lot but you can't possibly use that as any indication of the character. Plus time turners don't affect that character at all. The third book is kinda wonky in spots but I really just like it because I love Lupin as a character. I don't see what's really inconsistent about his character though.
On March 30 2013 14:31 infKelsier wrote: i'm so sad San lost.
I'm going to have a bath, listen to some harry potter audio books and then go to sleep
which book should I listen to?
The Two Towers.
HARRY POTTER I SAID
HOW DARE YOU!
Prisoner of Azkaban.
Obviously best book.
Lupin obviously best character.
Easily most inconsistent book and inconsistent character. Dude just summons fire with no freaking wand, a power that only Dumbledore also demonstrates in the series, and then doesn't even get a death scene. And don't start me on time turners...
But I digress.
Yeh Azkaban was kind of shady but kids loved it because it was all like zomg animagus and Lupin was a nice dude and all of that shit.
Order of the Pheonix was great because that was some hard hitting shit and hit on some interesting ideas of the ministry influencing schools and media to maintain control. and because I would totally bang the imaginary Cho Chang in my head, not the one they casted in the film. The one in my head is like Asa Akira but more innocent and less of a pornstar
On March 30 2013 14:31 infKelsier wrote: i'm so sad San lost.
I'm going to have a bath, listen to some harry potter audio books and then go to sleep
which book should I listen to?
The Two Towers.
HARRY POTTER I SAID
HOW DARE YOU!
Prisoner of Azkaban.
Obviously best book.
Lupin obviously best character.
Easily most inconsistent book and inconsistent character. Dude just summons fire with no freaking wand, a power that only Dumbledore also demonstrates in the series, and then doesn't even get a death scene. And don't start me on time turners...
But I digress.
Alright, the lack of death scene upset me a lot but you can't possibly use that as any indication of the character. Plus time turners don't affect that character at all. The third book is kinda wonky in spots but I really just like it because I love Lupin as a character. I don't see what's really inconsistent about his character though.
I think it was an indication that he was much more powerful than he was given credit for, but that could have just been an inconsistency. He was also quite young, but extremely learned in the ways of the Dark Arts and their opposition. Loved the character though. Time turners are more of a comment on the book, and not him at all.
On March 30 2013 14:31 infKelsier wrote: i'm so sad San lost.
I'm going to have a bath, listen to some harry potter audio books and then go to sleep
which book should I listen to?
The Two Towers.
HARRY POTTER I SAID
HOW DARE YOU!
Prisoner of Azkaban.
Obviously best book.
Lupin obviously best character.
Easily most inconsistent book and inconsistent character. Dude just summons fire with no freaking wand, a power that only Dumbledore also demonstrates in the series, and then doesn't even get a death scene. And don't start me on time turners...
But I digress.
Yeh Azkaban was kind of shady but kids loved it because it was all like zomg animagus and Lupin was a nice dude and all of that shit.
Order of the Pheonix was great because that was some hard hitting shit and hit on some interesting ideas of the ministry influencing schools and media to maintain control. and because I would totally bang the imaginary Cho Chang in my head, not the one they casted in the film. The one in my head is like Asa Akira but more innocent and less of a pornstar
Yeah that's definitely a close second favorite for me.
On March 30 2013 14:31 infKelsier wrote: i'm so sad San lost.
I'm going to have a bath, listen to some harry potter audio books and then go to sleep
which book should I listen to?
The Two Towers.
HARRY POTTER I SAID
HOW DARE YOU!
Prisoner of Azkaban.
Obviously best book.
Lupin obviously best character.
Easily most inconsistent book and inconsistent character. Dude just summons fire with no freaking wand, a power that only Dumbledore also demonstrates in the series, and then doesn't even get a death scene. And don't start me on time turners...
But I digress.
Alright, the lack of death scene upset me a lot but you can't possibly use that as any indication of the character. Plus time turners don't affect that character at all. The third book is kinda wonky in spots but I really just like it because I love Lupin as a character. I don't see what's really inconsistent about his character though.
I think it was an indication that he was much more powerful than he was given credit for, but that could have just been an inconsistency. He was also quite young, but extremely learned in the ways of the Dark Arts and their opposition. Loved the character though. Time turners are more of a comment on the book, and not him at all.
Yeah exactly. Like at the end of GoF when Dumbledore is having people get rounded up to fight he's like almost top on the list for everybody in the whole OotP. I always just felt like he was this like super powerful dude who gets shit all over because people are scared of the whole werewolf thing.
Did the thing die so they quick-switched it to Korean video feed? GOM so clutch, probably play of the day. Well, other than the fact that GhostKing's about to All-Kill!
On March 30 2013 14:45 Hall0wed wrote: Video died, refresh, flash player crashed, refresh, flash player crash, refresh, works! Refresh LR, flash player crashes.
Never updating flash player again, it it does is cause crashes. -_-
Switching to Chrome worked for me when Firefox and Flash decided they hate each other.
On March 30 2013 14:31 infKelsier wrote: i'm so sad San lost.
I'm going to have a bath, listen to some harry potter audio books and then go to sleep
which book should I listen to?
The Two Towers.
HARRY POTTER I SAID
HOW DARE YOU!
Prisoner of Azkaban.
Obviously best book.
Lupin obviously best character.
Easily most inconsistent book and inconsistent character. Dude just summons fire with no freaking wand, a power that only Dumbledore also demonstrates in the series, and then doesn't even get a death scene. And don't start me on time turners...
But I digress.
Alright, the lack of death scene upset me a lot but you can't possibly use that as any indication of the character. Plus time turners don't affect that character at all. The third book is kinda wonky in spots but I really just like it because I love Lupin as a character. I don't see what's really inconsistent about his character though.
I think it was an indication that he was much more powerful than he was given credit for, but that could have just been an inconsistency. He was also quite young, but extremely learned in the ways of the Dark Arts and their opposition. Loved the character though. Time turners are more of a comment on the book, and not him at all.
Yeah exactly. Like at the end of GoF when Dumbledore is having people get rounded up to fight he's like almost top on the list for everybody in the whole OotP. I always just felt like he was this like super powerful dude who gets shit all over because people are scared of the whole werewolf thing.
Yeh I think in the earlier stuff like 4-5 he gets played off as the guy who was a bookworm who went round with James and Sirius trying to stop them breaking rules. But he is a legit badass towards the end. I think not having a death scene was fine, many characters didn't have one and it symbolised the attitude Voldemort had towards other people, he just didn't give a fuck.
On March 30 2013 14:45 Hall0wed wrote: Video died, refresh, flash player crashed, refresh, flash player crash, refresh, works! Refresh LR, flash player crashes.
Never updating flash player again, it it does is cause crashes. -_-
Switching to Chrome worked for me when Firefox and Flash decided they hate each other.
I use chrome for browsing and GSL and I use firefox for twitch streams. Guess I'll try throwing gsl on firefox sometime.
Swarm hosts are not good against bio in the situation where Symbol's trying to pull them off. If you have a lead, yeah they can buy a bit of time until ultras are out...but behind...icky.
If you think about how expensive those swarm hosts were vs. the amount of supply/cost of things they've killed...they really were a bit of a waste. Faster infestors probably better.
Terrans need to start taking 5ths earlier when they have complete map control like this, he knows he SHOULD win but securing it with 400 minerals would be nice.
On March 30 2013 14:51 geokilla wrote: Uh.... Why is the free SQ so low quality? This is like 240P?
standard GSL
There's no stream on Twitch right? Cus I can't seem to find it, if there is one. I guess I'm forced to pay for GSTL ticket if I want to watch..? In relatively good quality anyways. I was hoping it'd be 480P at the very least :S
On March 30 2013 14:51 Biigfoot wrote: If you think about how expensive those swarm hosts were vs. the amount of supply/cost of things they've killed...they really were a bit of a waste. Faster infestors probably better.
Yeah a bio terran needs to be a tad heavier on the widow mines for them to really pay off.
Having said that though the spire going down changed the game a fair amount.
On March 30 2013 14:53 Lunareste wrote: Guys, WOL is going to be better than HOTS, sc2 is dead
/sarcasm
IMO, Symbol was one of the most boring Zerg from WOL. By my count, he's running a 6 unit composition (Ultralisk, Infestor, Viper, SH, Muta, Ling, BLing)! Insane!
On March 30 2013 14:55 Biigfoot wrote: Medivac boost should be Ebay upgrade.
Meaning you need an Ebay to get it?
or you research it from the Ebay?
Research it from an Ebay. Negates super early drop problems that people have against Terran but still lets you have it late game when people have some answers to it.
On March 30 2013 14:56 sitromit wrote: Symbol is playing really well after a bad start.
Byun threw this hard. Losing all of that bio to the 5 drop in Symbols main coinciding with not microing the rest of his army against the banes really, really, hurt him. He was mined out of his 3rd before he took a 5th too and he just couldn't remax in time.
On March 30 2013 14:55 Biigfoot wrote: Medivac boost should be Ebay upgrade.
Eww, that makes even less sense than it being a tech lab starport upgrade.
It makes more sense to have it as a tech lab upgrade yeah, but that seems too late/annoying for terrans and would probably lead to a lot of complaining. No one's gonna open with tech lab on starport just for med boost instead of getting 2 medivacs out at a time.
On March 30 2013 15:03 tomatriedes wrote: A spore crawler or two behind each mineral line would have helped so much this game.
I agree completely. Spores scale much better than spines do due to armor upgrades on bio in comparison to lack of vehicle upgrades for Medivacs. Putting a clock on the drop is huge IMO.
On March 30 2013 15:03 WhiteSatin wrote: this is so fucking sick to watch, such a HUGE improvement over broodlord + infestor A-move towards win vs P and T HELL YEAH!!!
p.s. seems like symbol has a harder time now that he actually has to deal with multi tasking ) cant sit back and a move anymore lol
This is really unfair
I remember Symbol playing vs some terran using the BL infestor style but also using Nydus network and managing every base whilst holding drops
On March 30 2013 15:03 WhiteSatin wrote: this is so fucking sick to watch, such a HUGE improvement over broodlord + infestor A-move towards win vs P and T HELL YEAH!!!
p.s. seems like symbol has a harder time now that he actually has to deal with multi tasking ) cant sit back and a move anymore lol
This is really unfair
I remember Symbol playing vs some terran using the BL infestor style but also using Nydus network and managing every base whilst holding drops
don't talk shit
I'm not talking shit, Symbol is the Zerg player that has used BL+Infestor out of all the Z players... Ever. Just watch every single GSL match he has played, he relied a ton on that combo of units. You make it sound like if used nydus every game lol
ByuN gets the all-kill. I think tonight's the first night I actually "watched" a series from GOM that ended before Midnight. Amazing amazing ByuN, even though Byun almost threw it.
GO PRIME! ByuN will make the finals if he keeps playing at this level. Really want to him to solidify his individual league performance, he's said again and again that as long as he gets to a finals he'll really conquer his nerve problems. All killing probably helps too! LOL
Zerg suddenly requires so much micro now. The addition of Swarm Hosts and Vipers mean you need to be a micro god. Terran got simplified. Drop micro, drop micro, drop micro.
On March 30 2013 15:03 WhiteSatin wrote: this is so fucking sick to watch, such a HUGE improvement over broodlord + infestor A-move towards win vs P and T HELL YEAH!!!
p.s. seems like symbol has a harder time now that he actually has to deal with multi tasking ) cant sit back and a move anymore lol
This is really unfair
I remember Symbol playing vs some terran using the BL infestor style but also using Nydus network and managing every base whilst holding drops
don't talk shit
I'm not talking shit, Symbol is the Zerg player that has used BL+Infestor out of all the Z players... Ever. Just watch every single GSL match he has played, he relied a ton on that combo of units. You make it sound like if used nydus every game lol
He used the strongest strategy available =/= can't multitask
he proved he is capable of it but he used BL infestor because it won him many games
Felt that AZUBU had a better chance if their coach made better decisions than Vines or San. Symbol had the game clenched, but he screwed up his defense and got overconfident I suppose.
On March 30 2013 15:13 scaban84 wrote: Zerg suddenly requires so much micro now. The addition of Swarm Hosts and Vipers mean you need to be a micro god. Terran got simplified. Drop micro, drop micro, drop micro.
It's not simplified it's microwise at least the same probably even more taxing at some points . Especially against an army that is not slow as fuck the bio/mine army can be pretty viotile .
On March 30 2013 15:11 xuanzue wrote: and the swarm hosts winrate stills in 0%
Clearly swarmhost usage was the critical factor in his game...get the fuck out of here
Swarmhosts are great for drawing the widowmine fire and being extra meatshields
Probably the greatest match I have seen in a very long time.
So much microing even the camera couldn't keep up for the duration. Byuns multi tasking is very insane, cant wait to see more from him
Glad I saw this match, probably won't be one like it for awhile. such a diverse unit comp from the zerg but the terran won with marines, maruaders, medivac and mass widow mines
On March 30 2013 15:11 xuanzue wrote: and the swarm hosts winrate stills in 0%
Clearly swarmhost usage was the critical factor in his game...get the fuck out of here
?... they could have been infestors which probably would have helped out both his army and drop defense had he gotten them earlier.
To be fair, Byun got like 5+ drops over and over through the northern path before Symbol finally put OLs to spot the area. Symbol played really well once he recovered from the bad start, but he wasn't on point by any means.
On March 30 2013 15:13 IronL wrote: Welp, count me in as another terran firmly in the "medivac boosters are pretty effing retarded" camp.
Bro he got dropped five fucking times before even thinking to put an overlord up top. Also he had some serious one-control group syndrome going on-maybe too much bl-infestor play in wol
On March 30 2013 15:11 xuanzue wrote: and the swarm hosts winrate stills in 0%
Clearly swarmhost usage was the critical factor in his game...get the fuck out of here
?... they could have been infestors which probably would have helped out both his army and drop defense had he gotten them earlier.
To be fair, Byun got like 5+ drops over and over through the northern path before Symbol finally put OLs to spot the area. Symbol played really well once he recovered from the bad start, but he wasn't on point by any means.
A very fair assessment, but I feel if he would have used infestors and mutas in tandem he could have probably cut that out after at most the second (?) drop.
On March 30 2013 15:13 scaban84 wrote: Zerg suddenly requires so much micro now. The addition of Swarm Hosts and Vipers mean you need to be a micro god. Terran got simplified. Drop micro, drop micro, drop micro.
Lol really? I guess you missed Byun splitting vs banelings, dodging fungals, sniping off infestors, positioning widow mines.Seriously u need to be a "micro god" to control swarm hosts (press b and u) and vipers?
On March 30 2013 15:14 PhoenixVoid wrote: Felt that AZUBU had a better chance if their coach made better decisions than Vines or San. Symbol had the game clenched, but he screwed up his defense and got overconfident I suppose.
Hm, I don't disagree with San, but maybe VINES could have been someone else. Was it Iris that chose them lineup? He's new, right? in the coaching scene.
On March 30 2013 15:11 xuanzue wrote: and the swarm hosts winrate stills in 0%
Clearly swarmhost usage was the critical factor in his game...get the fuck out of here
?... they could have been infestors which probably would have helped out both his army and drop defense had he gotten them earlier.
I have seen two gsl games using this style(both zerg losses) where the first came down to an unscouted gold base and then this game. I have seen Jaedong win plenty of games with this style when streaming. This game was long and many things happened and I would say powerful drops were far more important than SH use.
On March 30 2013 15:14 PhoenixVoid wrote: Felt that AZUBU had a better chance if their coach made better decisions than Vines or San. Symbol had the game clenched, but he screwed up his defense and got overconfident I suppose.
Hm, I don't disagree with San, but maybe VINES could have been someone else. Was it Iris that chose them lineup? He's new, right? in the coaching scene.
On March 30 2013 15:13 scaban84 wrote: Zerg suddenly requires so much micro now. The addition of Swarm Hosts and Vipers mean you need to be a micro god. Terran got simplified. Drop micro, drop micro, drop micro.
Giving Zerg micro is good. Widow mine also forces micro, kind of like spider mines in BW. If the addition of SH and Vipers mean you have to be a micro god, then you highly underrate what a micro god is.
On March 30 2013 15:13 IronL wrote: Welp, count me in as another terran firmly in the "medivac boosters are pretty effing retarded" camp.
Bro he got dropped five fucking times before even thinking to put an overlord up top. Also he had some serious one-control group syndrome going on-maybe too much bl-infestor play in wol
He had 4 control groups just for his army units. Watch the game maybe before you start talking nonsense.
On March 30 2013 15:19 ThePianoDentist wrote: It seems like having a nydus connecting his 5th and botoom of main (away from where drops land) would have been quite helpful there?
I wonder how long itll be before we see nydus' being fully utilised...maybe they need to decrease the gas cost of them a bit to encourage more use?
Reminds me of Broodwar lol. Savior and his nyduses.
Btw i never got the hype for Azubu. Most of the team are right out of 2011 some even 2010 and the rest of the team is Zergs that became good when Zerg absolutely demolished everything in the scene.
On March 30 2013 15:19 ThePianoDentist wrote: It seems like having a nydus connecting his 5th and botoom of main (away from where drops land) would have been quite helpful there?
I wonder how long itll be before we see nydus' being fully utilised...maybe they need to decrease the gas cost of them a bit to encourage more use?
Reminds me of Broodwar lol. Savior and his nyduses.
Nydus loads/unloads too slow in SC2 for it to be used to respond to drops. It's also really easy to snipe.
On March 30 2013 15:19 ThePianoDentist wrote: It seems like having a nydus connecting his 5th and botoom of main (away from where drops land) would have been quite helpful there?
I wonder how long itll be before we see nydus' being fully utilised...maybe they need to decrease the gas cost of them a bit to encourage more use?
Not a bad idea, but he needed more static defense, especially in the main (spore crawlers mainly). As soon as he switched to swarm host/infestor/ultra/bl he lost ALL his mobility. I can't really think of a less mobile zerg comp :p
On March 30 2013 15:20 s3rp wrote: Btw i never got the hype for Azubu. Most of the team are right out of 2011 some even 2010 and the rest of the team is Zergs that became good when Zerg absolutely demolished everything in the scene.
Symbol and Violet were good prior to the Zerg era god dammit
Genius, B4, Supernova, and Ganzi can be good as well.
On March 30 2013 15:13 IronL wrote: Welp, count me in as another terran firmly in the "medivac boosters are pretty effing retarded" camp.
Bro he got dropped five fucking times before even thinking to put an overlord up top. Also he had some serious one-control group syndrome going on-maybe too much bl-infestor play in wol
He had 4 control groups just for his army units. Watch the game maybe before you start talking nonsense.
Still ran all of his groups in 1 big bulk around the map. Never really catching anything worthwhile just slowly taking more and more damage.
I really don't like all this hate the SH is getting. As far as im concerned even after hearing so much whine about how the SH is useless vs bio and an insta loss I am seeing it being quite effective and more than worth the cost when used at the right times in the right numbers. The game vs Sound the other night the SH player would have definitely won had he scouted a gold base that was up forever. Maybe they ultimately prove less effective than some other composition but of the two SH vs bio games we have seen it is not the SH that lost the games.
On March 30 2013 15:20 s3rp wrote: Btw i never got the hype for Azubu. Most of the team are right out of 2011 some even 2010 and the rest of the team is Zergs that became good when Zerg absolutely demolished everything in the scene.
Symbol and Violet were good prior to the Zerg era god dammit
Genius, B4, Supernova, and Ganzi can be good as well.
Well, my first impression was that it was a huge clump of mid-tier players.
On March 30 2013 15:13 IronL wrote: Welp, count me in as another terran firmly in the "medivac boosters are pretty effing retarded" camp.
Bro he got dropped five fucking times before even thinking to put an overlord up top. Also he had some serious one-control group syndrome going on-maybe too much bl-infestor play in wol
He had 4 control groups just for his army units. Watch the game maybe before you start talking nonsense.
Still ran all of his groups in 1 big bulk around the map. Never really catching anything worthwhile just slowly taking more and more damage.
On March 30 2013 15:13 IronL wrote: Welp, count me in as another terran firmly in the "medivac boosters are pretty effing retarded" camp.
Bro he got dropped five fucking times before even thinking to put an overlord up top. Also he had some serious one-control group syndrome going on-maybe too much bl-infestor play in wol
He had 4 control groups just for his army units. Watch the game maybe before you start talking nonsense.
I guess you're right in that sense. What I meant to say was he never split his army well. It was like Oh shit another drop better box my army and a-move over there....meanwhile byun is doing another drop while repositioning his main army.
On March 30 2013 15:13 IronL wrote: Welp, count me in as another terran firmly in the "medivac boosters are pretty effing retarded" camp.
Bro he got dropped five fucking times before even thinking to put an overlord up top. Also he had some serious one-control group syndrome going on-maybe too much bl-infestor play in wol
He had 4 control groups just for his army units. Watch the game maybe before you start talking nonsense.
Still ran all of his groups in 1 big bulk around the map. Never really catching anything worthwhile just slowly taking more and more damage.
Im pretty sure at late game Symbol questions himself what the fuck does swarm hosts have anything to do here. Look at that poor expo at 8" getting assaulted all the time with a bunch of SH watching. Oh and the map is pretty huge that these locusts cannot do jack shit.
Sure it draws mines and acts as meat shield in mid game but the investment is so huge and not any useful beyond that. Symbol coulda dumped the SH fund into brazillion of lings, still retaining that utility and saving some gas
On March 30 2013 15:20 s3rp wrote: Btw i never got the hype for Azubu. Most of the team are right out of 2011 some even 2010 and the rest of the team is Zergs that became good when Zerg absolutely demolished everything in the scene.
Symbol and Violet were good prior to the Zerg era god dammit
Genius, B4, Supernova, and Ganzi can be good as well.
I don't remember hearing much about Symbol before the Queendralisk patch, tbh.
Symbol has always been overhyped though by the Zerg community though. You know how Tastosis joke about "the next zerg bonjwa"? That's because that's EXACTLY how the Zerg community is regarding new players who do well in a game or two.
I don't want to discount Symbol's accomplishments in the final WOL GSL, he did beat some good players to get to the finals, but cmon...we all know what balance was like for Zerg at the end of Wings of Liberty.
On March 30 2013 15:19 ThePianoDentist wrote: It seems like having a nydus connecting his 5th and botoom of main (away from where drops land) would have been quite helpful there?
I wonder how long itll be before we see nydus' being fully utilised...maybe they need to decrease the gas cost of them a bit to encourage more use?
Reminds me of Broodwar lol. Savior and his nyduses.
Nydus loads/unloads too slow in SC2 for it to be used to respond to drops. It's also really easy to snipe.
Nydus/SH Gretorp style! While I definitely agree SC2 Nyduses are incredibly awful, I wonder how practical that combo would work for a mobile base defense =P. SHs pack a big punch and the unload time doesn't hurt them as much as ling/bling.
On March 30 2013 15:19 ThePianoDentist wrote: It seems like having a nydus connecting his 5th and botoom of main (away from where drops land) would have been quite helpful there?
I wonder how long itll be before we see nydus' being fully utilised...maybe they need to decrease the gas cost of them a bit to encourage more use?
Reminds me of Broodwar lol. Savior and his nyduses.
Nydus loads/unloads too slow in SC2 for it to be used to respond to drops. It's also really easy to snipe.
Nydus/SH Gretorp style! While I definitely agree SC2 Nyduses are incredibly awful, I wonder how practical that combo would work for a mobile base defense =P. SHs pack a big punch and the unload time doesn't hurt them as much as ling/bling.
why the fuck would anyone build SH against bio terran? I mean yeah they give you extra dps but shit I'd rather build more vipers for binding cloud and infestors. Stop crying about SH it's sick good again Terran mech and also Zerg can use it to harass, not moving around like retards.
On March 30 2013 15:33 tuho12345 wrote: why the fuck would anyone build SH against bio terran? I mean yeah they give you extra dps but shit I'd rather build more vipers for binding cloud and infestors. Stop crying about SH it's sick good again Terran mech and also Zerg can use it to harass, not moving around like retards.
They are actually really good for mine shot baiting & baiting armies into banelings
On March 30 2013 15:33 tuho12345 wrote: why the fuck would anyone build SH against bio terran? I mean yeah they give you extra dps but shit I'd rather build more vipers for binding cloud and infestors. Stop crying about SH it's sick good again Terran mech and also Zerg can use it to harass, not moving around like retards.
They are actually really good for mine shot baiting & baiting armies into banelings
But he barely had any Banelings after he wasted 30+ into 15 workers + some buildings and a few Marines. Not to mention a smart Terran will never engange locusts on a map with enough space until he thinks he can kill the swarm hosts too. They're only good when your opponent has to constantly fight the locust .
The only people I have heard complain about SH vs bio are foreigners and I keep seeing koreans using them vs terran. Guess whose opinion I respect more? As i said it could ultimately be proven that a different style or unit composition is superior, but the idea that SH are terrible vs bio I simply have not seen in pro games so far.
On March 30 2013 15:33 tuho12345 wrote: why the fuck would anyone build SH against bio terran? I mean yeah they give you extra dps but shit I'd rather build more vipers for binding cloud and infestors. Stop crying about SH it's sick good again Terran mech and also Zerg can use it to harass, not moving around like retards.
They are actually really good for mine shot baiting & baiting armies into banelings
But is it worth the investment? Answer is no.
You never go SH against Bio. Even roach/hydra or muta ling is better.
On March 30 2013 15:20 s3rp wrote: Btw i never got the hype for Azubu. Most of the team are right out of 2011 some even 2010 and the rest of the team is Zergs that became good when Zerg absolutely demolished everything in the scene.
Symbol and Violet were good prior to the Zerg era god dammit
Genius, B4, Supernova, and Ganzi can be good as well.
I don't remember hearing much about Symbol before the Queendralisk patch, tbh.
Symbol has always been overhyped though by the Zerg community though. You know how Tastosis joke about "the next zerg bonjwa"? That's because that's EXACTLY how the Zerg community is regarding new players who do well in a game or two.
I don't want to discount Symbol's accomplishments in the final WOL GSL, he did beat some good players to get to the finals, but cmon...we all know what balance was like for Zerg at the end of Wings of Liberty.
Prior to the queen patch Symbol won the qualifier for Iron Squid, made it to the ro8, 3-0'd MKP, then 3-1'd Nestea, and finally lost 2-4 to MMA (MMA still had imba TvZ as well back then). That alone earns him recognition from me.
He was also working his way up to code S, having already defeated sC and Seed, patch hit when he faced Jjakji to qualify.
It's not the Zerg community that overhypes players exclusively, that's the sc2 community in general.
Symbol, however, was right to be hyped. Aside from Life(who stole his thunder) I don't think anyone save for Squirlte had a higher peak performance than Symbol in 2012. The guy absolutely just exploded onto the scene. Reverse all-killed IM, made a MLG arena final, qualified for OSL, and barely got knocked out in the ro8 all while seemingly coming out of nowhere. The best part was, he did it in style too showcasing a variety of innovative play (which he doesn't do as much anymore :/ )
Even after Life, I might have even said Symbol has shown the best lategame of any Zerg. For me personally, I pulled a Fionn and went full-hipster the first time he squared off against IM. He didn't all-kill or anything but his playstyle led me to believe he'd be great in the future. (This was in the first GSTL season of 2012)
On March 30 2013 15:20 s3rp wrote: Btw i never got the hype for Azubu. Most of the team are right out of 2011 some even 2010 and the rest of the team is Zergs that became good when Zerg absolutely demolished everything in the scene.
Symbol and Violet were good prior to the Zerg era god dammit
Genius, B4, Supernova, and Ganzi can be good as well.
I don't remember hearing much about Symbol before the Queendralisk patch, tbh.
Symbol has always been overhyped though by the Zerg community though. You know how Tastosis joke about "the next zerg bonjwa"? That's because that's EXACTLY how the Zerg community is regarding new players who do well in a game or two.
I don't want to discount Symbol's accomplishments in this final GSL, he did beat some good players to get to the finals, but cmon...we all know what balance was like for Zerg at the end of Wings of Liberty.
...
Symbol's run was incredibly impressive despite Zerg being favoured at that moment in ZvT. He had to beat plenty of amazing Zerg and Protoss players as well as beating the best TvZ player Innovation. He will be great in HOTS. It may take some Terran nerfs and more practice but I would not be surprised to see him challenge for a GSL again.
Like I said, I don't want to sound like I'm trying to shit on him too hard. I think he's probably a top 5 to 8 Zerg, but I also think there are other much better players than him. Today isn't the first time that he's gotten deathball syndrome and failed against multitask.
edit: and obviously part of that is composition based as well. Ultralisks and Brood Lords are still very bulky and not as mobile as lower tech Zerg units; of course they're going to have a harder time dealing with single drops more than something like 8 banelings.
On March 30 2013 15:33 tuho12345 wrote: why the fuck would anyone build SH against bio terran? I mean yeah they give you extra dps but shit I'd rather build more vipers for binding cloud and infestors. Stop crying about SH it's sick good again Terran mech and also Zerg can use it to harass, not moving around like retards.
I'm pretty sure Life got crushed when he went swarmhosts vs Last's mech at MLG Dallas. Game 5 he went muta-ling-bane vs mech and won.
On March 30 2013 15:20 s3rp wrote: Btw i never got the hype for Azubu. Most of the team are right out of 2011 some even 2010 and the rest of the team is Zergs that became good when Zerg absolutely demolished everything in the scene.
Symbol and Violet were good prior to the Zerg era god dammit
Genius, B4, Supernova, and Ganzi can be good as well.
I don't remember hearing much about Symbol before the Queendralisk patch, tbh.
Symbol has always been overhyped though by the Zerg community though. You know how Tastosis joke about "the next zerg bonjwa"? That's because that's EXACTLY how the Zerg community is regarding new players who do well in a game or two.
I don't want to discount Symbol's accomplishments in the final WOL GSL, he did beat some good players to get to the finals, but cmon...we all know what balance was like for Zerg at the end of Wings of Liberty.
Symbol's first major achievement was 2nd place at Iron Squid, before the queen patch.
On March 30 2013 15:20 s3rp wrote: Btw i never got the hype for Azubu. Most of the team are right out of 2011 some even 2010 and the rest of the team is Zergs that became good when Zerg absolutely demolished everything in the scene.
Symbol and Violet were good prior to the Zerg era god dammit
Genius, B4, Supernova, and Ganzi can be good as well.
I don't remember hearing much about Symbol before the Queendralisk patch, tbh.
Symbol has always been overhyped though by the Zerg community though. You know how Tastosis joke about "the next zerg bonjwa"? That's because that's EXACTLY how the Zerg community is regarding new players who do well in a game or two.
I don't want to discount Symbol's accomplishments in the final WOL GSL, he did beat some good players to get to the finals, but cmon...we all know what balance was like for Zerg at the end of Wings of Liberty.
Prior to the queen patch Symbol won the qualifier for Iron Squid, made it to the ro8, 3-0'd MKP, then 3-1'd Nestea, and finally lost 2-4 to MMA (MMA still had imba TvZ as well back then). That alone earns him recognition from me.
He was also working his way up to code S, having already defeated sC and Seed, patch hit when he faced Jjakji to qualify.
It's not the Zerg community that overhypes players exclusively, that's the sc2 community in general.
Symbol, however, was right to be hyped. Aside from Life(who stole his thunder) I don't think anyone save for Squirlte had a higher peak performance than Symbol in 2012. The guy absolutely just exploded onto the scene. Reverse all-killed IM, made a MLG arena final, qualified for OSL, and barely got knocked out in the ro8 all while seemingly coming out of nowhere. The best part was, he did it in style too showcasing a variety of innovative play (which he doesn't do as much anymore :/ )
Even after Life, I might have even said Symbol has shown the best lategame of any Zerg. For me personally, I pulled a Fionn and went full-hipster the first time he squared off against IM. He didn't all-kill or anything but his playstyle led me to believe he'd be great in the future.
so prepatch he had one good tournament run - there are a lot of players who do that and fall off, so it's not thaaattt notable
i would contend that many many players had higher peaks than symbol in 2012. taeja, marineking, dongraegu, rain, creator, parting, life, leenock
On March 30 2013 15:33 tuho12345 wrote: why the fuck would anyone build SH against bio terran? I mean yeah they give you extra dps but shit I'd rather build more vipers for binding cloud and infestors. Stop crying about SH it's sick good again Terran mech and also Zerg can use it to harass, not moving around like retards.
They are actually really good for mine shot baiting & baiting armies into banelings
But is it worth the investment? Answer is no.
You never go SH against Bio. Even roach/hydra or muta ling is better.
SH is good against Terran mech.
Hey man, it's obvious that you've figured out the game so I guess I'll stop talking. Better go tell Life, Symbol, Jaedong, Monster, and every other Korean Zerg that swarm hosts are completely useless. And yes I've seen every single one of those players use swam hosts v Bio and not get dominated AT ALL.
On March 30 2013 15:33 tuho12345 wrote: why the fuck would anyone build SH against bio terran? I mean yeah they give you extra dps but shit I'd rather build more vipers for binding cloud and infestors. Stop crying about SH it's sick good again Terran mech and also Zerg can use it to harass, not moving around like retards.
They are actually really good for mine shot baiting & baiting armies into banelings
But is it worth the investment? Answer is no.
You never go SH against Bio. Even roach/hydra or muta ling is better.
SH is good against Terran mech.
Hey man, it's obvious that you've figured out the game so I guess I'll stop talking. Better go tell Life, Symbol, Jaedong, Monster, and every other Korean Zerg that swarm hosts are completely useless. And yes I've seen every single one of those players use swam hosts v Bio and not get dominated AT ALL.
Life doing swarm hosts? yeah, ¡if you say that, must be true.
I wonder how good Ganzi is these days . When he was still on Slayers i considered him top be a Top10 Terran at the very least . Than he slowly fell off while on complexity and now i haven't see him play in ages. Does he still still struggle with injury ? I mean he couldn't have been worse to send out than San or Vines who are removed from their peaks for so long .
Was probably a mistake to take a flyer on him in fantasy for nostalgia.
On March 30 2013 15:48 s3rp wrote: I wonder how good Ganzi is these days . When he was still on Slayers i considered him top be a Top10 Terran at the very least . Than he slowly fell off while on complexity and no i haven't see him play in ages. Does he still still struggle with injury ? I mean he couldn't have been worse to send out than San or Vines who are removed from their peaks for so long .
i agree with VINES but san can be really freaking good when he wants to
On March 30 2013 15:33 tuho12345 wrote: why the fuck would anyone build SH against bio terran? I mean yeah they give you extra dps but shit I'd rather build more vipers for binding cloud and infestors. Stop crying about SH it's sick good again Terran mech and also Zerg can use it to harass, not moving around like retards.
They are actually really good for mine shot baiting & baiting armies into banelings
But is it worth the investment? Answer is no.
You never go SH against Bio. Even roach/hydra or muta ling is better.
SH is good against Terran mech.
Hey man, it's obvious that you've figured out the game so I guess I'll stop talking. Better go tell Life, Symbol, Jaedong, Monster, and every other Korean Zerg that swarm hosts are completely useless. And yes I've seen every single one of those players use swam hosts v Bio and not get dominated AT ALL.
This is what I think. What is this opinion coming from? Their own games? I hate to break it to you but your games mean less than nothing and as this guy points out lots of top korean zergs have been using SH vs bio successfully. The game is hardly figured out so claiming certainly is pretty idiotic but its even worse when we are regularly seeing the top players use the unit successfully.
Why im at it I hate the logic of "life lost to lasts mech using SH therefore its bad" when every good style losses. Bio tank losses to ling bane muta in WoL and the other way around and they were both awesome styles. Players lose, its a fact.
On March 30 2013 15:48 s3rp wrote: I wonder how good Ganzi is these days . When he was still on Slayers i considered him top be a Top10 Terran at the very least . Than he slowly fell off while on complexity and now i haven't see him play in ages. Does he still still struggle with injury ? I mean he couldn't have been worse to send out than San or Vines who are removed from their peaks for so long .
Was probably a mistake to take a flyer on him in fantasy for nostalgia.
Did Vines ever had a peak? I'm more bummed my man Violet wasn't sent out.
On March 30 2013 15:48 s3rp wrote: I wonder how good Ganzi is these days . When he was still on Slayers i considered him top be a Top10 Terran at the very least . Than he slowly fell off while on complexity and no i haven't see him play in ages. Does he still still struggle with injury ? I mean he couldn't have been worse to send out than San or Vines who are removed from their peaks for so long .
i agree with VINES but san can be really freaking good when he wants to
Yeah but after his GSL Top 8 run he only showed flashes every blue moon . He qualified for OSL like out of nowhere . OSL was his first major tournament placement in ages back then.
On March 30 2013 15:33 tuho12345 wrote: why the fuck would anyone build SH against bio terran? I mean yeah they give you extra dps but shit I'd rather build more vipers for binding cloud and infestors. Stop crying about SH it's sick good again Terran mech and also Zerg can use it to harass, not moving around like retards.
They are actually really good for mine shot baiting & baiting armies into banelings
But is it worth the investment? Answer is no.
You never go SH against Bio. Even roach/hydra or muta ling is better.
SH is good against Terran mech.
Hey man, it's obvious that you've figured out the game so I guess I'll stop talking. Better go tell Life, Symbol, Jaedong, Monster, and every other Korean Zerg that swarm hosts are completely useless. And yes I've seen every single one of those players use swam hosts v Bio and not get dominated AT ALL.
lol.?
Life did not make a single SH at all during his MLG run except that one game vs Last mech where he lost and only making a SH to bait mine shot.
Life basically was playing WoL style all the way in the tournament (muta-ling into Bls/Ultras/Infestor with a bit of Viper in Game 1 vs Flash) and straight up beating everyone else because he was just better.
SH doesn't fit Life style who like to be mobile and aggressive.
Wow, I had considered trading for Byun this week for my fantasy team since I'm a fan of his, but figured he was too expensive, and after all he didn't look too hot in the up and downs.... all of a sudden he comes out guns blazing lol
On March 30 2013 15:33 tuho12345 wrote: why the fuck would anyone build SH against bio terran? I mean yeah they give you extra dps but shit I'd rather build more vipers for binding cloud and infestors. Stop crying about SH it's sick good again Terran mech and also Zerg can use it to harass, not moving around like retards.
They are actually really good for mine shot baiting & baiting armies into banelings
But is it worth the investment? Answer is no.
You never go SH against Bio. Even roach/hydra or muta ling is better.
SH is good against Terran mech.
Hey man, it's obvious that you've figured out the game so I guess I'll stop talking. Better go tell Life, Symbol, Jaedong, Monster, and every other Korean Zerg that swarm hosts are completely useless. And yes I've seen every single one of those players use swam hosts v Bio and not get dominated AT ALL.
I want to see all those games of symbol and monster with SH. oh but those games don't exists.
Jaedong, uses them often in ladder, but his w/r with them is not that good.
On March 30 2013 15:48 s3rp wrote: I wonder how good Ganzi is these days . When he was still on Slayers i considered him top be a Top10 Terran at the very least . Than he slowly fell off while on complexity and now i haven't see him play in ages. Does he still still struggle with injury ? I mean he couldn't have been worse to send out than San or Vines who are removed from their peaks for so long .
Was probably a mistake to take a flyer on him in fantasy for nostalgia.
Did Vines ever had a peak? I'm more bummed my man Violet wasn't sent out.
Vines did well for a while after Creators 3-3 Upgrade Style became popular and no Terran really had an answer for a few weeks . It didn't last very long and he didn't actually win anything of notice but still had to be respected when send out . Not like today where his play was just terribad.
On March 30 2013 15:54 jubil wrote: Wow, I had considered trading for Byun this week for my fantasy team since I'm a fan of his, but figured he was too expensive, and after all he didn't look too hot in the up and downs.... all of a sudden he comes out guns blazing lol
Watching the first game, kind want Barbie to get in and all kill someone, just to get a GIF of Khaldor and Wolf's reaction. (Yeah, yeah, Gerard's girlfriend, whatever. Nothing says she can't be the girlfriend AND kick a little ass. Sadly, I don't think that'll happen.)
On March 30 2013 15:48 s3rp wrote: I wonder how good Ganzi is these days . When he was still on Slayers i considered him top be a Top10 Terran at the very least . Than he slowly fell off while on complexity and now i haven't see him play in ages. Does he still still struggle with injury ? I mean he couldn't have been worse to send out than San or Vines who are removed from their peaks for so long .
Was probably a mistake to take a flyer on him in fantasy for nostalgia.
Did Vines ever had a peak? I'm more bummed my man Violet wasn't sent out.
Vines did well for a while after Creators 3-3 Upgrade Style became popular and no Terran really had an answer for a few weeks . It didn't last very long and he didn't actually win anything of notice but still had to be respected when send out . Not like today where his play was just terribad.
Hah, I was just poking fun as Vines was one of the least remarkable WOL players for me. That's some impressive memory you have there!
On March 30 2013 15:20 s3rp wrote: Btw i never got the hype for Azubu. Most of the team are right out of 2011 some even 2010 and the rest of the team is Zergs that became good when Zerg absolutely demolished everything in the scene.
Symbol and Violet were good prior to the Zerg era god dammit
Genius, B4, Supernova, and Ganzi can be good as well.
I don't remember hearing much about Symbol before the Queendralisk patch, tbh.
Symbol has always been overhyped though by the Zerg community though. You know how Tastosis joke about "the next zerg bonjwa"? That's because that's EXACTLY how the Zerg community is regarding new players who do well in a game or two.
I don't want to discount Symbol's accomplishments in the final WOL GSL, he did beat some good players to get to the finals, but cmon...we all know what balance was like for Zerg at the end of Wings of Liberty.
Prior to the queen patch Symbol won the qualifier for Iron Squid, made it to the ro8, 3-0'd MKP, then 3-1'd Nestea, and finally lost 2-4 to MMA (MMA still had imba TvZ as well back then). That alone earns him recognition from me.
He was also working his way up to code S, having already defeated sC and Seed, patch hit when he faced Jjakji to qualify.
It's not the Zerg community that overhypes players exclusively, that's the sc2 community in general.
Symbol, however, was right to be hyped. Aside from Life(who stole his thunder) I don't think anyone save for Squirlte had a higher peak performance than Symbol in 2012. The guy absolutely just exploded onto the scene. Reverse all-killed IM, made a MLG arena final, qualified for OSL, and barely got knocked out in the ro8 all while seemingly coming out of nowhere. The best part was, he did it in style too showcasing a variety of innovative play (which he doesn't do as much anymore :/ )
Even after Life, I might have even said Symbol has shown the best lategame of any Zerg. For me personally, I pulled a Fionn and went full-hipster the first time he squared off against IM. He didn't all-kill or anything but his playstyle led me to believe he'd be great in the future.
so prepatch he had one good tournament run - there are a lot of players who do that and fall off, so it's not thaaattt notable
i would contend that many many players had higher peaks than symbol in 2012. taeja, marineking, dongraegu, rain, creator, parting, life, leenock
It actually is notable when he 3-0s MKP at his best point in his career, 3-1s the best ZvZ, and puts up an admirable 2-4 against MMAvZ. It at least buys him the benefit of not being disregarded as being carried by his race.
I was judging his peak more by the quality of his gameplay as brief as it was(he nosedived after losing to Seed). In pure results, he gets slaughtered.
On March 30 2013 15:20 s3rp wrote: Btw i never got the hype for Azubu. Most of the team are right out of 2011 some even 2010 and the rest of the team is Zergs that became good when Zerg absolutely demolished everything in the scene.
Symbol and Violet were good prior to the Zerg era god dammit
Genius, B4, Supernova, and Ganzi can be good as well.
I don't remember hearing much about Symbol before the Queendralisk patch, tbh.
Symbol has always been overhyped though by the Zerg community though. You know how Tastosis joke about "the next zerg bonjwa"? That's because that's EXACTLY how the Zerg community is regarding new players who do well in a game or two.
I don't want to discount Symbol's accomplishments in the final WOL GSL, he did beat some good players to get to the finals, but cmon...we all know what balance was like for Zerg at the end of Wings of Liberty.
Prior to the queen patch Symbol won the qualifier for Iron Squid, made it to the ro8, 3-0'd MKP, then 3-1'd Nestea, and finally lost 2-4 to MMA (MMA still had imba TvZ as well back then). That alone earns him recognition from me.
He was also working his way up to code S, having already defeated sC and Seed, patch hit when he faced Jjakji to qualify.
It's not the Zerg community that overhypes players exclusively, that's the sc2 community in general.
Symbol, however, was right to be hyped. Aside from Life(who stole his thunder) I don't think anyone save for Squirlte had a higher peak performance than Symbol in 2012. The guy absolutely just exploded onto the scene. Reverse all-killed IM, made a MLG arena final, qualified for OSL, and barely got knocked out in the ro8 all while seemingly coming out of nowhere. The best part was, he did it in style too showcasing a variety of innovative play (which he doesn't do as much anymore :/ )
Even after Life, I might have even said Symbol has shown the best lategame of any Zerg. For me personally, I pulled a Fionn and went full-hipster the first time he squared off against IM. He didn't all-kill or anything but his playstyle led me to believe he'd be great in the future.
so prepatch he had one good tournament run - there are a lot of players who do that and fall off, so it's not thaaattt notable
i would contend that many many players had higher peaks than symbol in 2012. taeja, marineking, dongraegu, rain, creator, parting, life, leenock
It actually is notable when he 3-0s MKP at his best point in his career, 3-1s the best ZvZ, and puts up an admirable 2-4 against MMAvZ. It at least buys him the benefit of not being disregarded as being carried by his race.
I was judging his peak more by the quality of his gameplay as brief as it was(he nosedived after losing to Seed). In pure results, he gets slaughtered.
to be fair that series was played a few hours after MKP landed after IPL and TvZ was always MKP's worst matchup during that time (he was about 58% there as opposed to 80% in the other two). Symbol did show good preparation at the ISQ live event, though.
I think Barbie is probably the most attractive female SC2 player now. Like, easily. She kind of looks like Ailee. Prime coach is lucky.
I forgot about Aphrodite, but I think these two are close enough for it to be opinion based on who is more attractive. I'd still go with Barbie, but it's close.
On March 30 2013 16:11 MinzySC2 wrote: I think Barbie is probably the most attractive female SC2 player now. Like, easily. She kind of looks like Ailee. Prime coach is lucky.
Females getting plastic surgery in Korea is the norm.
Family even give their own children plastic surgery when they come of age. It is pretty normal.
Though i am not sure whether she does plastic surgery.
On March 30 2013 15:03 WhiteSatin wrote: this is so fucking sick to watch, such a HUGE improvement over broodlord + infestor A-move towards win vs P and T HELL YEAH!!!
p.s. seems like symbol has a harder time now that he actually has to deal with multi tasking ) cant sit back and a move anymore lol
This is really unfair
I remember Symbol playing vs some terran using the BL infestor style but also using Nydus network and managing every base whilst holding drops
don't talk shit
I'm not talking shit, Symbol is the Zerg player that has used BL+Infestor out of all the Z players... Ever. Just watch every single GSL match he has played, he relied a ton on that combo of units. You make it sound like if used nydus every game lol
He used the strongest strategy available =/= can't multitask
he proved he is capable of it but he used BL infestor because it won him many games
Yeah, and Artosis praised symbol for playing one of the best WoL games EVER. But I guess he doesnt know what hes talking about..
On March 30 2013 15:20 s3rp wrote: Btw i never got the hype for Azubu. Most of the team are right out of 2011 some even 2010 and the rest of the team is Zergs that became good when Zerg absolutely demolished everything in the scene.
Symbol and Violet were good prior to the Zerg era god dammit
Genius, B4, Supernova, and Ganzi can be good as well.
I don't remember hearing much about Symbol before the Queendralisk patch, tbh.
Symbol has always been overhyped though by the Zerg community though. You know how Tastosis joke about "the next zerg bonjwa"? That's because that's EXACTLY how the Zerg community is regarding new players who do well in a game or two.
I don't want to discount Symbol's accomplishments in the final WOL GSL, he did beat some good players to get to the finals, but cmon...we all know what balance was like for Zerg at the end of Wings of Liberty.
Prior to the queen patch Symbol won the qualifier for Iron Squid, made it to the ro8, 3-0'd MKP, then 3-1'd Nestea, and finally lost 2-4 to MMA (MMA still had imba TvZ as well back then). That alone earns him recognition from me.
He was also working his way up to code S, having already defeated sC and Seed, patch hit when he faced Jjakji to qualify.
It's not the Zerg community that overhypes players exclusively, that's the sc2 community in general.
Symbol, however, was right to be hyped. Aside from Life(who stole his thunder) I don't think anyone save for Squirlte had a higher peak performance than Symbol in 2012. The guy absolutely just exploded onto the scene. Reverse all-killed IM, made a MLG arena final, qualified for OSL, and barely got knocked out in the ro8 all while seemingly coming out of nowhere. The best part was, he did it in style too showcasing a variety of innovative play (which he doesn't do as much anymore :/ )
Even after Life, I might have even said Symbol has shown the best lategame of any Zerg. For me personally, I pulled a Fionn and went full-hipster the first time he squared off against IM. He didn't all-kill or anything but his playstyle led me to believe he'd be great in the future.
so prepatch he had one good tournament run - there are a lot of players who do that and fall off, so it's not thaaattt notable
i would contend that many many players had higher peaks than symbol in 2012. taeja, marineking, dongraegu, rain, creator, parting, life, leenock
It actually is notable when he 3-0s MKP at his best point in his career, 3-1s the best ZvZ, and puts up an admirable 2-4 against MMAvZ. It at least buys him the benefit of not being disregarded as being carried by his race.
I was judging his peak more by the quality of his gameplay as brief as it was(he nosedived after losing to Seed). In pure results, he gets slaughtered.
Just want to add that I think Symbol looked absolutely terrifying for a while, not just because of his race but he just played really really well, so I agree with you; the high regard he's held in comes from how he played not his results.
On March 30 2013 15:20 s3rp wrote: Btw i never got the hype for Azubu. Most of the team are right out of 2011 some even 2010 and the rest of the team is Zergs that became good when Zerg absolutely demolished everything in the scene.
Symbol and Violet were good prior to the Zerg era god dammit
Genius, B4, Supernova, and Ganzi can be good as well.
I don't remember hearing much about Symbol before the Queendralisk patch, tbh.
Symbol has always been overhyped though by the Zerg community though. You know how Tastosis joke about "the next zerg bonjwa"? That's because that's EXACTLY how the Zerg community is regarding new players who do well in a game or two.
I don't want to discount Symbol's accomplishments in the final WOL GSL, he did beat some good players to get to the finals, but cmon...we all know what balance was like for Zerg at the end of Wings of Liberty.
Prior to the queen patch Symbol won the qualifier for Iron Squid, made it to the ro8, 3-0'd MKP, then 3-1'd Nestea, and finally lost 2-4 to MMA (MMA still had imba TvZ as well back then). That alone earns him recognition from me.
He was also working his way up to code S, having already defeated sC and Seed, patch hit when he faced Jjakji to qualify.
It's not the Zerg community that overhypes players exclusively, that's the sc2 community in general.
Symbol, however, was right to be hyped. Aside from Life(who stole his thunder) I don't think anyone save for Squirlte had a higher peak performance than Symbol in 2012. The guy absolutely just exploded onto the scene. Reverse all-killed IM, made a MLG arena final, qualified for OSL, and barely got knocked out in the ro8 all while seemingly coming out of nowhere. The best part was, he did it in style too showcasing a variety of innovative play (which he doesn't do as much anymore :/ )
Even after Life, I might have even said Symbol has shown the best lategame of any Zerg. For me personally, I pulled a Fionn and went full-hipster the first time he squared off against IM. He didn't all-kill or anything but his playstyle led me to believe he'd be great in the future.
so prepatch he had one good tournament run - there are a lot of players who do that and fall off, so it's not thaaattt notable
i would contend that many many players had higher peaks than symbol in 2012. taeja, marineking, dongraegu, rain, creator, parting, life, leenock
It actually is notable when he 3-0s MKP at his best point in his career, 3-1s the best ZvZ, and puts up an admirable 2-4 against MMAvZ. It at least buys him the benefit of not being disregarded as being carried by his race.
I was judging his peak more by the quality of his gameplay as brief as it was(he nosedived after losing to Seed). In pure results, he gets slaughtered.
Did you watch the games against mkp back then? Symbol foach/baneling busted 3times in a row. It was just a terrible series by mkp, but by no means an indicator of symbol's skill.
On March 30 2013 15:33 tuho12345 wrote: why the fuck would anyone build SH against bio terran? I mean yeah they give you extra dps but shit I'd rather build more vipers for binding cloud and infestors. Stop crying about SH it's sick good again Terran mech and also Zerg can use it to harass, not moving around like retards.
They are actually really good for mine shot baiting & baiting armies into banelings
But is it worth the investment? Answer is no.
You never go SH against Bio. Even roach/hydra or muta ling is better.
SH is good against Terran mech.
Hey man, it's obvious that you've figured out the game so I guess I'll stop talking. Better go tell Life, Symbol, Jaedong, Monster, and every other Korean Zerg that swarm hosts are completely useless. And yes I've seen every single one of those players use swam hosts v Bio and not get dominated AT ALL.
lol.?
Life did not make a single SH at all during his MLG run except that one game vs Last mech where he lost and only making a SH to bait mine shot.
Life basically was playing WoL style all the way in the tournament (muta-ling into Bls/Ultras/Infestor with a bit of Viper in Game 1 vs Flash) and straight up beating everyone else because he was just better.
SH doesn't fit Life style who like to be mobile and aggressive.
Swarm Hosts can fit Life's style if he use them properly and if he wants to attack multiple location at once. Infestors has the same speed of Swarm Hosts, guess which unit was Life known for in WoL?
Swarm Hosts are great units that players still don't know how to use. Blade55555 released Korean GM replay pack where he always goes Roach/Ling/Baneling/Muta into Swarm Hosts into Hive, only against Bio Terrans, it worked great for him, Swarm Host just isn't like Brood Lord or some other simple units, you can achieve a lot with it, but you have to use it smartly.
Also, MVP.Monster won HSL, and he won the game with Swarm Hosts against Hack on the Akilon Wastes. Just because you think that they are bad because you didn't see them work vs. Bio, doesn't make them bad.
On March 30 2013 15:33 tuho12345 wrote: why the fuck would anyone build SH against bio terran? I mean yeah they give you extra dps but shit I'd rather build more vipers for binding cloud and infestors. Stop crying about SH it's sick good again Terran mech and also Zerg can use it to harass, not moving around like retards.
They are actually really good for mine shot baiting & baiting armies into banelings
But is it worth the investment? Answer is no.
You never go SH against Bio. Even roach/hydra or muta ling is better.
SH is good against Terran mech.
Hey man, it's obvious that you've figured out the game so I guess I'll stop talking. Better go tell Life, Symbol, Jaedong, Monster, and every other Korean Zerg that swarm hosts are completely useless. And yes I've seen every single one of those players use swam hosts v Bio and not get dominated AT ALL.
I want to see all those games of symbol and monster with SH. oh but those games don't exists.
Jaedong, uses them often in ladder, but his w/r with them is not that good.
I like how you are talking right out of your ass. If you want to see Monster beating Hack and Oz, go watch HSL games.
On March 30 2013 15:20 s3rp wrote: Btw i never got the hype for Azubu. Most of the team are right out of 2011 some even 2010 and the rest of the team is Zergs that became good when Zerg absolutely demolished everything in the scene.
Symbol and Violet were good prior to the Zerg era god dammit
Genius, B4, Supernova, and Ganzi can be good as well.
I don't remember hearing much about Symbol before the Queendralisk patch, tbh.
Symbol has always been overhyped though by the Zerg community though. You know how Tastosis joke about "the next zerg bonjwa"? That's because that's EXACTLY how the Zerg community is regarding new players who do well in a game or two.
I don't want to discount Symbol's accomplishments in the final WOL GSL, he did beat some good players to get to the finals, but cmon...we all know what balance was like for Zerg at the end of Wings of Liberty.
Prior to the queen patch Symbol won the qualifier for Iron Squid, made it to the ro8, 3-0'd MKP, then 3-1'd Nestea, and finally lost 2-4 to MMA (MMA still had imba TvZ as well back then). That alone earns him recognition from me.
He was also working his way up to code S, having already defeated sC and Seed, patch hit when he faced Jjakji to qualify.
It's not the Zerg community that overhypes players exclusively, that's the sc2 community in general.
Symbol, however, was right to be hyped. Aside from Life(who stole his thunder) I don't think anyone save for Squirlte had a higher peak performance than Symbol in 2012. The guy absolutely just exploded onto the scene. Reverse all-killed IM, made a MLG arena final, qualified for OSL, and barely got knocked out in the ro8 all while seemingly coming out of nowhere. The best part was, he did it in style too showcasing a variety of innovative play (which he doesn't do as much anymore :/ )
Even after Life, I might have even said Symbol has shown the best lategame of any Zerg. For me personally, I pulled a Fionn and went full-hipster the first time he squared off against IM. He didn't all-kill or anything but his playstyle led me to believe he'd be great in the future.
so prepatch he had one good tournament run - there are a lot of players who do that and fall off, so it's not thaaattt notable
i would contend that many many players had higher peaks than symbol in 2012. taeja, marineking, dongraegu, rain, creator, parting, life, leenock
It actually is notable when he 3-0s MKP at his best point in his career, 3-1s the best ZvZ, and puts up an admirable 2-4 against MMAvZ. It at least buys him the benefit of not being disregarded as being carried by his race.
I was judging his peak more by the quality of his gameplay as brief as it was(he nosedived after losing to Seed). In pure results, he gets slaughtered.
Did you watch the games against mkp back then? Symbol foach/baneling busted 3times in a row. It was just a terrible series by mkp, but by no means an indicator of symbol's skill.
DRG roach/baneling busted all the time in TvZ prior to the queenpatch. He won an MLG just doing that. It was THE build prepatch in TvZ. This one and Stephano style.
On March 30 2013 15:33 tuho12345 wrote: why the fuck would anyone build SH against bio terran? I mean yeah they give you extra dps but shit I'd rather build more vipers for binding cloud and infestors. Stop crying about SH it's sick good again Terran mech and also Zerg can use it to harass, not moving around like retards.
They are actually really good for mine shot baiting & baiting armies into banelings
But is it worth the investment? Answer is no.
You never go SH against Bio. Even roach/hydra or muta ling is better.
SH is good against Terran mech.
Hey man, it's obvious that you've figured out the game so I guess I'll stop talking. Better go tell Life, Symbol, Jaedong, Monster, and every other Korean Zerg that swarm hosts are completely useless. And yes I've seen every single one of those players use swam hosts v Bio and not get dominated AT ALL.
lol.?
Life did not make a single SH at all during his MLG run except that one game vs Last mech where he lost and only making a SH to bait mine shot.
Life basically was playing WoL style all the way in the tournament (muta-ling into Bls/Ultras/Infestor with a bit of Viper in Game 1 vs Flash) and straight up beating everyone else because he was just better.
SH doesn't fit Life style who like to be mobile and aggressive.
Swarm Hosts can fit Life's style if he use them properly and if he wants to attack multiple location at once. Infestors has the same speed of Swarm Hosts, guess which unit was Life known for in WoL?
Swarm Hosts are great units that players still don't know how to use. Blade55555 released Korean GM replay pack where he always goes Roach/Ling/Baneling/Muta into Swarm Hosts into Hive, only against Bio Terrans, it worked great for him, Swarm Host just isn't like Brood Lord or some other simple units, you can achieve a lot with it, but you have to use it smartly.
Also, MVP.Monster won HSL, and he won the game with Swarm Hosts against Hack on the Akilon Wastes. Just because you think that they are bad because you didn't see them work vs. Bio, doesn't make them bad.
On March 30 2013 15:33 tuho12345 wrote: why the fuck would anyone build SH against bio terran? I mean yeah they give you extra dps but shit I'd rather build more vipers for binding cloud and infestors. Stop crying about SH it's sick good again Terran mech and also Zerg can use it to harass, not moving around like retards.
They are actually really good for mine shot baiting & baiting armies into banelings
But is it worth the investment? Answer is no.
You never go SH against Bio. Even roach/hydra or muta ling is better.
SH is good against Terran mech.
Hey man, it's obvious that you've figured out the game so I guess I'll stop talking. Better go tell Life, Symbol, Jaedong, Monster, and every other Korean Zerg that swarm hosts are completely useless. And yes I've seen every single one of those players use swam hosts v Bio and not get dominated AT ALL.
I want to see all those games of symbol and monster with SH. oh but those games don't exists.
Jaedong, uses them often in ladder, but his w/r with them is not that good.
I like how you are talking right out of your ass. If you want to see Monster beating Hack and Oz, go watch HSL games.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Life's known unit for WoL was his zerglings, by the time infestors were out Life usually had done extremely cost efficient trades with his zerglings that the game was practically already over. Swarm Hosts are terrible against bio as bio are way too mobile for the swarm hosts to deal with, do a drop and then you have a lot less support for the swarm hosts, boost around the locusts scan and kill the swarm hosts and whatever is left around.
There are just so many ways for bio to out maneuver Swarm Hosts for them to be effective in my opinion.
On March 30 2013 15:33 tuho12345 wrote: why the fuck would anyone build SH against bio terran? I mean yeah they give you extra dps but shit I'd rather build more vipers for binding cloud and infestors. Stop crying about SH it's sick good again Terran mech and also Zerg can use it to harass, not moving around like retards.
They are actually really good for mine shot baiting & baiting armies into banelings
But is it worth the investment? Answer is no.
You never go SH against Bio. Even roach/hydra or muta ling is better.
SH is good against Terran mech.
Hey man, it's obvious that you've figured out the game so I guess I'll stop talking. Better go tell Life, Symbol, Jaedong, Monster, and every other Korean Zerg that swarm hosts are completely useless. And yes I've seen every single one of those players use swam hosts v Bio and not get dominated AT ALL.
lol.?
Life did not make a single SH at all during his MLG run except that one game vs Last mech where he lost and only making a SH to bait mine shot.
Life basically was playing WoL style all the way in the tournament (muta-ling into Bls/Ultras/Infestor with a bit of Viper in Game 1 vs Flash) and straight up beating everyone else because he was just better.
SH doesn't fit Life style who like to be mobile and aggressive.
Swarm Hosts can fit Life's style if he use them properly and if he wants to attack multiple location at once. Infestors has the same speed of Swarm Hosts, guess which unit was Life known for in WoL?
Swarm Hosts are great units that players still don't know how to use. Blade55555 released Korean GM replay pack where he always goes Roach/Ling/Baneling/Muta into Swarm Hosts into Hive, only against Bio Terrans, it worked great for him, Swarm Host just isn't like Brood Lord or some other simple units, you can achieve a lot with it, but you have to use it smartly.
Also, MVP.Monster won HSL, and he won the game with Swarm Hosts against Hack on the Akilon Wastes. Just because you think that they are bad because you didn't see them work vs. Bio, doesn't make them bad.
On March 30 2013 15:55 xuanzue wrote:
On March 30 2013 15:46 TimENT wrote:
On March 30 2013 15:38 FakeDeath wrote:
On March 30 2013 15:35 TimENT wrote:
On March 30 2013 15:33 tuho12345 wrote: why the fuck would anyone build SH against bio terran? I mean yeah they give you extra dps but shit I'd rather build more vipers for binding cloud and infestors. Stop crying about SH it's sick good again Terran mech and also Zerg can use it to harass, not moving around like retards.
They are actually really good for mine shot baiting & baiting armies into banelings
But is it worth the investment? Answer is no.
You never go SH against Bio. Even roach/hydra or muta ling is better.
SH is good against Terran mech.
Hey man, it's obvious that you've figured out the game so I guess I'll stop talking. Better go tell Life, Symbol, Jaedong, Monster, and every other Korean Zerg that swarm hosts are completely useless. And yes I've seen every single one of those players use swam hosts v Bio and not get dominated AT ALL.
I want to see all those games of symbol and monster with SH. oh but those games don't exists.
Jaedong, uses them often in ladder, but his w/r with them is not that good.
I like how you are talking right out of your ass. If you want to see Monster beating Hack and Oz, go watch HSL games.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Life's known unit for WoL was his zerglings, by the time infestors were out Life usually had done extremely cost efficient trades with his zerglings that the game was practically already over. Swarm Hosts are terrible against bio as bio are way too mobile for the swarm hosts to deal with, do a drop and then you have a lot less support for the swarm hosts, boost around the locusts scan and kill the swarm hosts and whatever is left around.
There are just so many ways for bio to out maneuver Swarm Hosts for them to be effective in my opinion.
I know what I am talking about. Life was known for his Zerglings AND doing aggressive 2-base Infestors pushes, catching opponents offguard, and using them with the burrow movement for ambushes.
You are saying like Swarm Hosts are the only unit there, you should be using them like Terran is using Siege Tanks, WITH support... For everybody saying something like this, just watch Hack vs. Monster from HSL already. Whenever Hack wanted to attack Swarm Hosts and evaded Locusts, a tons of Lings and Banelings came to protect Swarm Hosts, and Hack had to back off.
You are also thinking that people should rush Swarm Hosts, they don't, because they are immobile as they are and you will have problems with first few drops. You should go for Mutas/Lings/Banelings first, to be mobile and be able to deny drops, and then after that get Swarm Hosts while do transition to the Hive. Swarm Hosts makes your engagement much easier, since Locusts tank Mines/Tank shots really well, and Bio units have to kite them otherwise he will be losing units for nothing. And you don't engage armies head-on with the Swarm Hosts, you are doing it from 15+ range, where there is no danger for them. Most pros I've saw burrow them so close, that it is inevitable for them to be killed, and even worse, they don't move them at all when they release Locusts, they just leave them there burrowed. You have to be active with them all the time if you are already coming that close with them.
I like how people see bad use of a Swarm Hosts by the Pros and say how that unit is bad. I can admit that they are worse against Bio than against Mech/Protoss, but they are not terrible as you say and they take more skill to be used effectively.
what the hell is hsl. it must be the most underground league ever
Just as I thought you couldn't be more ignorant, saying how there are no games with Monster using Swarm Hosts, when I say where you can find them, you then start to bash the "league", and it isn't even the league, it was the tournament with Hack, Oz, Maru, Monster, Hyun, San, SuperNova and Lucky. I don't even know why I argue with someone as ignorant as you are.
On March 30 2013 15:33 tuho12345 wrote: why the fuck would anyone build SH against bio terran? I mean yeah they give you extra dps but shit I'd rather build more vipers for binding cloud and infestors. Stop crying about SH it's sick good again Terran mech and also Zerg can use it to harass, not moving around like retards.
They are actually really good for mine shot baiting & baiting armies into banelings
But is it worth the investment? Answer is no.
You never go SH against Bio. Even roach/hydra or muta ling is better.
SH is good against Terran mech.
Hey man, it's obvious that you've figured out the game so I guess I'll stop talking. Better go tell Life, Symbol, Jaedong, Monster, and every other Korean Zerg that swarm hosts are completely useless. And yes I've seen every single one of those players use swam hosts v Bio and not get dominated AT ALL.
lol.?
Life did not make a single SH at all during his MLG run except that one game vs Last mech where he lost and only making a SH to bait mine shot.
Life basically was playing WoL style all the way in the tournament (muta-ling into Bls/Ultras/Infestor with a bit of Viper in Game 1 vs Flash) and straight up beating everyone else because he was just better.
SH doesn't fit Life style who like to be mobile and aggressive.
Swarm Hosts can fit Life's style if he use them properly and if he wants to attack multiple location at once. Infestors has the same speed of Swarm Hosts, guess which unit was Life known for in WoL?
Swarm Hosts are great units that players still don't know how to use. Blade55555 released Korean GM replay pack where he always goes Roach/Ling/Baneling/Muta into Swarm Hosts into Hive, only against Bio Terrans, it worked great for him, Swarm Host just isn't like Brood Lord or some other simple units, you can achieve a lot with it, but you have to use it smartly.
Also, MVP.Monster won HSL, and he won the game with Swarm Hosts against Hack on the Akilon Wastes. Just because you think that they are bad because you didn't see them work vs. Bio, doesn't make them bad.
On March 30 2013 15:55 xuanzue wrote:
On March 30 2013 15:46 TimENT wrote:
On March 30 2013 15:38 FakeDeath wrote:
On March 30 2013 15:35 TimENT wrote:
On March 30 2013 15:33 tuho12345 wrote: why the fuck would anyone build SH against bio terran? I mean yeah they give you extra dps but shit I'd rather build more vipers for binding cloud and infestors. Stop crying about SH it's sick good again Terran mech and also Zerg can use it to harass, not moving around like retards.
They are actually really good for mine shot baiting & baiting armies into banelings
But is it worth the investment? Answer is no.
You never go SH against Bio. Even roach/hydra or muta ling is better.
SH is good against Terran mech.
Hey man, it's obvious that you've figured out the game so I guess I'll stop talking. Better go tell Life, Symbol, Jaedong, Monster, and every other Korean Zerg that swarm hosts are completely useless. And yes I've seen every single one of those players use swam hosts v Bio and not get dominated AT ALL.
I want to see all those games of symbol and monster with SH. oh but those games don't exists.
Jaedong, uses them often in ladder, but his w/r with them is not that good.
I like how you are talking right out of your ass. If you want to see Monster beating Hack and Oz, go watch HSL games.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Life's known unit for WoL was his zerglings, by the time infestors were out Life usually had done extremely cost efficient trades with his zerglings that the game was practically already over. Swarm Hosts are terrible against bio as bio are way too mobile for the swarm hosts to deal with, do a drop and then you have a lot less support for the swarm hosts, boost around the locusts scan and kill the swarm hosts and whatever is left around.
There are just so many ways for bio to out maneuver Swarm Hosts for them to be effective in my opinion.
I know what I am talking about. Life was known for his Zerglings AND doing aggressive 2-base Infestors pushes, catching opponents offguard, and using them with the burrow movement for ambushes.
You are saying like Swarm Hosts are the only unit there, you should be using them like Terran is using Siege Tanks, WITH support... For everybody saying something like this, just watch Hack vs. Monster from HSL already. Whenever Hack wanted to attack Swarm Hosts and evaded Locusts, a tons of Lings and Banelings came to protect Swarm Hosts, and Hack had to back off.
You are also thinking that people should rush Swarm Hosts, they don't, because they are immobile as they are and you will have problems with first few drops. You should go for Mutas/Lings/Banelings first, to be mobile and be able to deny drops, and then after that get Swarm Hosts while do transition to the Hive. Swarm Hosts makes your engagement much easier, since Locusts tank Mines/Tank shots really well, and Bio units have to kite them otherwise he will be losing units for nothing. And you don't engage armies head-on with the Swarm Hosts, you are doing it from 15+ range, where there is no danger for them. Most pros I've saw burrow them so close, that it is inevitable for them to be killed, and even worse, they don't move them at all when they release Locusts, they just leave them there burrowed. You have to be active with them all the time if you are already coming that close with them.
I like how people see bad use of a Swarm Hosts by the Pros and say how that unit is bad. I can admit that they are worse against Bio than against Mech/Protoss, but they are not terrible as you say and they take more skill to be used effectively.
what the hell is hsl. it must be the most underground league ever
Just as I thought you couldn't be more ignorant, saying how there are no games with Monster using Swarm Hosts, when I say where you can find them, you then start to bash the "league", and it isn't even the league, it was the tournament with Hack, Oz, Maru, Monster, Hyun, San, SuperNova and Lucky. I don't even know why I argue with someone as ignorant as you are.
I find it very unlikely that Life will be using Swarm Hosts in the near future. He used BL/Infestor in WoL only somewhat reluctantly because it was the most (only?) viable late-game composition, and the SH isn't really a late-game unit, but rather a mid-game unit. In the mid-game, Life will almost always go for ling/bane and mutalisks except for when all-inning. The immobility of the SH does not fit Life's style, and though it is potent if used correctly (as shown by Monster in HSL), none of the more aggressive Zergs (DRG comes to mind, with his affinity for ling/bane/muta ) will be using them regularly anytime soon.
On March 31 2013 00:44 Zealously wrote: I find it very unlikely that Life will be using Swarm Hosts in the near future. He used BL/Infestor in WoL only somewhat reluctantly because it was the most (only?) viable late-game composition, and the SH isn't really a late-game unit, but rather a mid-game unit. In the mid-game, Life will almost always go for ling/bane and mutalisks except for when all-inning. The immobility of the SH does not fit Life's style, and though it is potent if used correctly (as shown by Monster in HSL), none of the more aggressive Zergs (DRG comes to mind, with his affinity for ling/bane/muta ) will be using them regularly anytime soon.
Yes, it could be possible, but we will have to wait and see. Even if Life was using the most mobile army, I am not talking about Brood Lords/Infestor army composition, but mid-game Infestor pushes, and Infestor rush that he often did in WoL. He could've gone for Mutalisks, Infestors have the same speed of Swarm Hosts.
Also, Muta/Ling/Baneling into Vipers/Ultras is very mobile and popular, he still has been using Brood Lords and Infestors against some Terran players even though it isn't "the best" solution.
As far as I see it, Life is trying out stuff, and is using what works. He was trying Swarm Hosts vs. Last on Whirlwind, so he thought that they would work, but even then he didn't really use them correctly.
Anyway, we will know in a next few months what works and what doesn't.
Starting to get worried about the hellbats. Byun played 4 games and not a single hellbat was made! People need to start trying hellbats again or blizzard needs to do something to fix them.
On March 31 2013 05:42 Canucklehead wrote: Starting to get worried about the hellbats. Byun played 4 games and not a single hellbat was made! People need to start trying hellbats again or blizzard needs to do something to fix them.
they are very good in TvZ. If you play Hellbats insead of Widow Mines you can go for an even more mobile style. I think we'll see them sooner or later.
On March 31 2013 05:42 Canucklehead wrote: Starting to get worried about the hellbats. Byun played 4 games and not a single hellbat was made! People need to start trying hellbats again or blizzard needs to do something to fix them.
On March 31 2013 05:42 Canucklehead wrote: Starting to get worried about the hellbats. Byun played 4 games and not a single hellbat was made! People need to start trying hellbats again or blizzard needs to do something to fix them.
EPT
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