[Code S] Ro8 Day 1 2013 GSL Season 1 - Page 101

On February 22 2013 01:16 Salazarz wrote:


No, I said people liked the time when GSL was filled with Terrans because most viewers enjoy TvT far more than any other mirror.

On February 22 2013 01:10 Nebuchad wrote:


You do realize that you've just said that people like TvT because they like TvT, right?

On February 22 2013 01:33 Tarzul wrote:


It's not really a circular argument when you look at at the data. If you compiled all the statistics on recommended games here on TeamLiquid, you'd find TvT is by far the most recommended mirror match up. I haven't done so myself, but after browsing through these for a few years it's a pattern you pick up quickly.

As far as non mirrors go, TvZ certainly has the best chance at being highly recommended to watch (usually when it goes to late game with lots of action around the map, drops, and positional play). Then there's a huge drop when it comes to TvP and ZvP - matchups for which mediocrity in the numbers is the norm (although TvP probably edges out ZvP).

Really, there are only two matchups which, on average, score "good" recommendations: TvT and TvZ. And the latter is probably more volatile. This is a big problem for SC2 e-sports. When fans are tuning out because a particular matchup is usually not worth watching - you have a problem. How often do you see a 95% "Yes" rated PvP? ZvZ?

BW had a similar problem with ZvZ (and perhaps PvP as well) - matchups which usually scored lower in ratings than the other 4. But in BW, i'd be willing to bet that TvP and ZvP scored on average much higher than their SC2 counterparts (with TvZ scoring about the same). When you saw good players on the lineup facing off in any non-mirror matchup, you knew you were in for an exciting game. Unfortunately, I don't think this holds for SC2. I hope HOTS can change this, but I remain skeptical.

On February 22 2013 01:33 Ragnarork wrote:


Yeah, after following him for quite some time, that's a shock for sure...



Uh ? There was only a single true KeSPA match :p

On February 22 2013 01:45 Nebuchad wrote:


What people have liked is biased by the fact that so far we only had to choose between gomtvt, gomzvz and gompvp.
Don't you think people would have enjoyed it even better if at some point, we had gomtvpvz?

Also I enjoy to watch and play protoss so you will excuse my contempt at you explaining to me how anything with protoss in it sucks balls.

On February 22 2013 01:30 Nebuchad wrote:


GSL was always filled with terrans. Unless I'm mistaken, this is the first time since the open seasons that terran isn't the most represented race in GSL, and it only happened because Polt forfeited his spot.
GomTvT wasn't about the presence of terran players, it was about the dominance of terran players. When you say you enjoyed GomTvT, you aren't saying that you enjoyed the TvT match-up, you're saying that you enjoyed terrans stomping over the other races in a way that was possibly fun to you, but really wasn't to them (or me for that matter).

On February 22 2013 02:07 wklbishop wrote:


LOL, what?

He enjoys the TvT matchup. If he enjoyed terran stomping the other races then he would say he enjoyed TvP and TvZ back in mid-late 2011.

Personally, I raged soooo hard in the Ro32 during the 1-1-1 era as a protoss player. But even I have to admit that a lot of those TvT games were so sick once we got to the Ro16/8/4 and I got over my whining. The finals b/w MVP v TOp and MVP v MMA were meh though.

On February 22 2013 02:07 Nebuchad wrote:
Okay I'm not really sure where you're going with this anymore... Reading your last post it felt like you were saying that since people enjoy TvT more than ZvZ or PvP, GomTvT was better for e-sports from a viewership standpoint.

Now I'm sure that's not what you were trying to say because that's absurd. So what were you trying to say?

On February 22 2013 02:18 Salazarz wrote:


What exactly is your problem? Majority of viewers agree that current metagame and racial distribution leads to much more boring games than what we had in in 2012/late 2011. I'm not going to discuss whether it's "good for e-sports" or "bad for e-sports" because these conversations are retarded; the point is, games on average were much more enjoyable to watch. You can stop trying to read into it so much and put words into my mouth, I've spelled out exactly what I mean in my post; if you feel like watching modern ZvZ or turtle to broodlords into gg is more fun for you, that's fine - but the fact remains that majority of viewers find most of these games incredibly boring. Hence the "GomTvT was better than GomZvZ" comment.

On February 22 2013 02:22 Mortal wrote:
Any recommended games? I'm planning on seeing what happened to Bogus and why Parting got bopped too, but I'd like to know if there were any stand-out games. Completely backwards from what I was expecting for today. Guess Symbol is still just as dangerous!

On February 22 2013 02:07 Nebuchad wrote:
Okay I'm not really sure where you're going with this anymore... Reading your last post it felt like you were saying that since people enjoy TvT more than ZvZ or PvP, GomTvT was better for e-sports from a viewership standpoint.

Now I'm sure that's not what you were trying to say because that's absurd. So what were you trying to say?

On February 22 2013 02:26 Tarzul wrote:


I never mentioned GomTvT. That was another poster. GomTvT was fine for short-term viewing, but of course it was broken and wasn't good for e-sports. I interjected to post my observation that matchups have a significant impact on whether people enjoy watching SC2 or not. I think it's very concerning that PvT and ZvP tend to produce games that are significantly less liked among viewers than TvT or TvZ. I think it would be great if changes could be made that would make these matchups "more exciting".