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On February 02 2013 17:46 0dem wrote:Come on, let´s look at it from a different perspective: EGTL is playing in fu**ing PROLEAGUE!! Who would have thought that this might be true some day two or three years ago? I am pretty sure that almost nobody did! To quote Gandalf: "There was never much hope; Only a fool could hope." Let us just be grateful for the possibility to see "our" team, the team that represents the foreign community like no other teams, fight against the legends of BW on a daily basis! Everytime I switch on SPL there is a match going on between two players we used to admire and look up to in the oldern days. It is just pure awesomeness to see EGTL compete in this scenario. Of course, many people thought that EGTL would crush the BW teams based on the "having played sc2 for longer"-advantage. I guess BW teams make up for that with dedication, passion and a precise practice regime. The first time around should be seen as an experience. Getting to know PL, the pressure in the booth. PL has it´sown rules. And in a season, there will always be a "favorite" that chokes. Just give this team some time to get used to PL and just enjoy the fact, that EGTL is going head to head wit h teams like SKT T!, KT Rolster or KHAN! This alone should be enough. I know it is for me  EGTL fighting! ps: Yeah, maybe they aren´t fielding their best players. But still, there is a reason for everything and we can´t look behind the scenes. Let´s cheer for everybody! They fought hard for their dream and maybe if we stop to look at everything with a negative attitude, things will turn around 
Most of the people on this website never watched BW PL. The impact of EG-TL being there is lost on them.
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On February 02 2013 16:55 GTPGlitch wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 11:43 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 11:39 GTPGlitch wrote:On February 02 2013 10:58 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 08:07 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 07:53 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 07:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 07:30 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 05:39 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 05:15 SamsungStar wrote:
[quote]
Not really. Aces are supposed to win their first match then take the ace as well. Hero's not even winning his regular PL match. Half the reason why EGTL isn't making it to ace matches. Look at Roro/Jangbi for examples of what Ace players look like. Funny because Roro has a 0% winrate against HerO from both PL and individual leagues. HerO's winning about half his PL matches atm which, while underwhelming for a player of his caliber, would still be reliable if they had a strong core team to back him up. But with Stephano not playing recently and Taeja being out because of his wrist problems, there really isn't. But hey, remember this season when EGTL all killed Samsung Khan? Lol, that was quickly forgotten. MAN these EGTL guys are bad. What? The only set they've played this season is the one in this thread, which they lost 4:1. Nice one BRAH. This season had 3 rounds so far. First round, EGTL all killed Samsung Khan. Second round HerO 3 killed them and then they had nobody to follow up so EGTL lost 3-4. Now Khan 4-1. Wondering if you're just playing dumb Oh okay, so you're saying Khan is up 2-1 vs EGTL? A team that started the season going 1-6 with players that made comments about how they didn't understand the game in interviews during their train wreck of a first round. And somehow this is supposed to be a blistering retort to those who say EGTL is bad? So... EGTL did better than Khan in round 1, "they're just learning the game". EGTL does worse than Khan (as of right now) in round 3, every player on EGTL is bad. Their map score head to head is equal. EGTL played with an arguably weaker lineup this time around, missing Stephano and Taeja, Revival not getting to play. But whatever. Arguing with you is pointless as fuck since you only know how to strawman and dodge questions. Cursing helps. You notice the part where nobody agrees with you? It's because your arguments are terrible. And sorry, despite what 12 yr olds on the internet think, calling everything a strawman isn't a proper rebuttal. Well it might help if you were more clear with your posts lol I mean, first you say 'zomg no ace for egtl thats why they lose' Then it's "yaya check out roro and jangbi, pimps~ o and ya I remember when EGTL 4-0'd Samsung keke all you suckers thinking they're bad" Then "dude wtf are you dumb how does that say that they aren't bad", even though you're the one that mentioned that they beat Samsung once and the other guy was saying that it didn't mean anything since samsung was dumber than a rock.... I'm sure a lot of things seem obscure when you can't read. Or make coherent summaries. I clearly stated in round 1 Samsung players didn't even understand the game yet. Which, if you have any grasp on logic, explains why they performed so poorly in round 1. Round 2 and now Round 3, they performed exceptionally well. And it was on the strength of their aces, hence so many 4-3 wins. It's really not that hard to follow. But somehow you managed to veer off track. Bravo. lol the fuck is your issue dude? Sorry if I interpreted this Show nested quote +But hey, remember this season when EGTL all killed Samsung Khan? Lol, that was quickly forgotten. MAN these EGTL guys are bad. as sarcastic and got the wrong impression, but it sure seems like you were saying that EGTL was actually good in that post. Sorry I disturbed you during this time of the month, i guess
I never said that. The guy I was arguing with said that. Like I said, a lot of things must seem obscure when you can't read.
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On February 02 2013 21:10 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 20:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 20:32 nomyx wrote:On February 02 2013 17:17 Confuse wrote:On February 02 2013 17:02 Balfazar wrote:
Can't we just agree EGTL sucks and move on? I think most people understand they are in last place; the real debate should be on why. The first foreign team to enter proleague should have all the motivation in the world to do well. I just don't understand why that doesn't convert into actually doing well. I think it's a mixture of many things. Poor coaching decisions, not fielding certain players (Taeja's injury I can understand, but fielding certain players first when that player has a bad winrate vs 2 races, stephano focusing on GSL instead of proleague, ect), and even possibly the players not focusing enough time on proleague when we know all the KeSPA pros spend the majority of their time practicing for pro league. Just some armchair analysis. I agree with this. What I absolutely despise are people who look at teamleague results, ignore all the factors that go into it and argue that every player on the losing team is bad. EGTL is performing poorly as a team, yes. They might be bad as a team, yes. Are all the players performing poorly in individual leagues? No. So that's kind of a stupid thing to argue. Scanning all the trolling you did in this thread, I think this statement sums up your butthurt. Nobody here has even remotely stated that everyone on EGTL is bad. You are either delusional, or have backed yourself into an untenable position that you can't possibly defend. So you have to make it seem everyone else are taking an absurdly extreme stance that doesn't exist. Show nested quote +Compare it to the English soccer team. They have incredible individual players. Are they as good as they could be as a team? No. Why? Because working as a team requires a different approach, chemistry between the players, ETC. Would you watch England lose 4-1 to Germany and argue that Rooney is bad? No, because it's dumb as fuck Yet another example of having absolutely no actual logic to backup your position, hence making a horrible analogy that neither adheres to common sense, nor adhere to history. From a common sense standpoint, a series of 1-on-1 matchups and one where 11 players work in cohesion cannot possibly equate. From a historical standpoint, KTFlash, Jaedong Oz, MBSea all roll their eyes at this comparison
This. He backed himself into a completely untenable position by stating "EGTL's players individual skill is blah blah wipes the floor with 90% of Kespa."
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Austria24422 Posts
On February 02 2013 22:24 SamsungStar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 21:10 baubo wrote:On February 02 2013 20:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 20:32 nomyx wrote:On February 02 2013 17:17 Confuse wrote:On February 02 2013 17:02 Balfazar wrote:
Can't we just agree EGTL sucks and move on? I think most people understand they are in last place; the real debate should be on why. The first foreign team to enter proleague should have all the motivation in the world to do well. I just don't understand why that doesn't convert into actually doing well. I think it's a mixture of many things. Poor coaching decisions, not fielding certain players (Taeja's injury I can understand, but fielding certain players first when that player has a bad winrate vs 2 races, stephano focusing on GSL instead of proleague, ect), and even possibly the players not focusing enough time on proleague when we know all the KeSPA pros spend the majority of their time practicing for pro league. Just some armchair analysis. I agree with this. What I absolutely despise are people who look at teamleague results, ignore all the factors that go into it and argue that every player on the losing team is bad. EGTL is performing poorly as a team, yes. They might be bad as a team, yes. Are all the players performing poorly in individual leagues? No. So that's kind of a stupid thing to argue. Scanning all the trolling you did in this thread, I think this statement sums up your butthurt. Nobody here has even remotely stated that everyone on EGTL is bad. You are either delusional, or have backed yourself into an untenable position that you can't possibly defend. So you have to make it seem everyone else are taking an absurdly extreme stance that doesn't exist. Compare it to the English soccer team. They have incredible individual players. Are they as good as they could be as a team? No. Why? Because working as a team requires a different approach, chemistry between the players, ETC. Would you watch England lose 4-1 to Germany and argue that Rooney is bad? No, because it's dumb as fuck Yet another example of having absolutely no actual logic to backup your position, hence making a horrible analogy that neither adheres to common sense, nor adhere to history. From a common sense standpoint, a series of 1-on-1 matchups and one where 11 players work in cohesion cannot possibly equate. From a historical standpoint, KTFlash, Jaedong Oz, MBSea all roll their eyes at this comparison This. He backed himself into a completely untenable position by stating "EGTL's players individual skill is blah blah wipes the floor with 90% of Kespa."
Heh, you still avoided the IM question. I considered our debate done there.
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On February 02 2013 22:26 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 22:24 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 21:10 baubo wrote:On February 02 2013 20:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 20:32 nomyx wrote:On February 02 2013 17:17 Confuse wrote:On February 02 2013 17:02 Balfazar wrote:
Can't we just agree EGTL sucks and move on? I think most people understand they are in last place; the real debate should be on why. The first foreign team to enter proleague should have all the motivation in the world to do well. I just don't understand why that doesn't convert into actually doing well. I think it's a mixture of many things. Poor coaching decisions, not fielding certain players (Taeja's injury I can understand, but fielding certain players first when that player has a bad winrate vs 2 races, stephano focusing on GSL instead of proleague, ect), and even possibly the players not focusing enough time on proleague when we know all the KeSPA pros spend the majority of their time practicing for pro league. Just some armchair analysis. I agree with this. What I absolutely despise are people who look at teamleague results, ignore all the factors that go into it and argue that every player on the losing team is bad. EGTL is performing poorly as a team, yes. They might be bad as a team, yes. Are all the players performing poorly in individual leagues? No. So that's kind of a stupid thing to argue. Scanning all the trolling you did in this thread, I think this statement sums up your butthurt. Nobody here has even remotely stated that everyone on EGTL is bad. You are either delusional, or have backed yourself into an untenable position that you can't possibly defend. So you have to make it seem everyone else are taking an absurdly extreme stance that doesn't exist. Compare it to the English soccer team. They have incredible individual players. Are they as good as they could be as a team? No. Why? Because working as a team requires a different approach, chemistry between the players, ETC. Would you watch England lose 4-1 to Germany and argue that Rooney is bad? No, because it's dumb as fuck Yet another example of having absolutely no actual logic to backup your position, hence making a horrible analogy that neither adheres to common sense, nor adhere to history. From a common sense standpoint, a series of 1-on-1 matchups and one where 11 players work in cohesion cannot possibly equate. From a historical standpoint, KTFlash, Jaedong Oz, MBSea all roll their eyes at this comparison This. He backed himself into a completely untenable position by stating "EGTL's players individual skill is blah blah wipes the floor with 90% of Kespa." Heh, you still avoided the IM question. I considered our debate done there.
I didn't avoid it. I answered it. You are just illiterate. Also, your argument is terrible. You're trying to use an outlier to disprove a trend. Do you have any idea how silly that is?
P.S. Heh
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Austria24422 Posts
On February 02 2013 22:43 SamsungStar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 22:26 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 22:24 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 21:10 baubo wrote:On February 02 2013 20:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 20:32 nomyx wrote:On February 02 2013 17:17 Confuse wrote:On February 02 2013 17:02 Balfazar wrote:
Can't we just agree EGTL sucks and move on? I think most people understand they are in last place; the real debate should be on why. The first foreign team to enter proleague should have all the motivation in the world to do well. I just don't understand why that doesn't convert into actually doing well. I think it's a mixture of many things. Poor coaching decisions, not fielding certain players (Taeja's injury I can understand, but fielding certain players first when that player has a bad winrate vs 2 races, stephano focusing on GSL instead of proleague, ect), and even possibly the players not focusing enough time on proleague when we know all the KeSPA pros spend the majority of their time practicing for pro league. Just some armchair analysis. I agree with this. What I absolutely despise are people who look at teamleague results, ignore all the factors that go into it and argue that every player on the losing team is bad. EGTL is performing poorly as a team, yes. They might be bad as a team, yes. Are all the players performing poorly in individual leagues? No. So that's kind of a stupid thing to argue. Scanning all the trolling you did in this thread, I think this statement sums up your butthurt. Nobody here has even remotely stated that everyone on EGTL is bad. You are either delusional, or have backed yourself into an untenable position that you can't possibly defend. So you have to make it seem everyone else are taking an absurdly extreme stance that doesn't exist. Compare it to the English soccer team. They have incredible individual players. Are they as good as they could be as a team? No. Why? Because working as a team requires a different approach, chemistry between the players, ETC. Would you watch England lose 4-1 to Germany and argue that Rooney is bad? No, because it's dumb as fuck Yet another example of having absolutely no actual logic to backup your position, hence making a horrible analogy that neither adheres to common sense, nor adhere to history. From a common sense standpoint, a series of 1-on-1 matchups and one where 11 players work in cohesion cannot possibly equate. From a historical standpoint, KTFlash, Jaedong Oz, MBSea all roll their eyes at this comparison This. He backed himself into a completely untenable position by stating "EGTL's players individual skill is blah blah wipes the floor with 90% of Kespa." Heh, you still avoided the IM question. I considered our debate done there. I didn't avoid it. I answered it. You are just illiterate. Also, your argument is terrible. You're trying to use an outlier to disprove a trend. Do you have any idea how silly that is? P.S. Heh
You said "Mvp and Nestea don't make a team, depth does!!!!!!", which is correct but doesn't answer my question.
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Funny the people calling EGTL bad wouldn't be discerning enough to recognize the obvious counterpoint that they have 5 3-4 losses.
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On February 03 2013 02:29 Doodsmack wrote:
Funny the people calling EGTL bad wouldn't be discerning enough to recognize the obvious counterpoint that they have 5 3-4 losses.
That suggests they don't have a solid ace that can close out games, which is true with Taeja injured.
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On February 03 2013 02:29 Doodsmack wrote:
Funny the people calling EGTL bad wouldn't be discerning enough to recognize the obvious counterpoint that they have 5 3-4 losses.
I agree that EGTL isn't bad per say, think they're just below average, but I hate your point.
3-4 and 4-3 is statistically the most likely outcome. If EG-TL was EXACTLY average. Like not bad or good relative to every other team, 3-4 still has a 27% of happening. The expected value of 27% out of 16 games is 4-5.
With EG-TL's % win per map, 3-4 is actually the most likely.
.... now that I brought up stats, I have this horrible feeling some PhD in stats is about to prove me wrong. D=
EDIT: Actually, after reading things a bit more carefully. People are really misrepresenting each other. Except for 1 person, I notice, most people are just butthurt about EG-TL "supposedly" wiping the floor with KESPA and gloating that it didn't happen. They didn't necessarily say EG-TL is bad, though I guess you can infer from that.
While people like Doodsmack are taking them as saying EG-TL is bad.
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Since TaeJa is injured they won like 1 matchup out of at least 6? ...thats pretty terrible!
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On February 03 2013 03:51 Dirkinity wrote:
Since TaeJa is injured they won like 1 matchup out of at least 6? ...thats pretty terrible!
SKT went worse during this period, I think. So, EG-TL, don't be too hard on yourself, your turn will come.
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United States97277 Posts
On February 03 2013 04:08 FineAndDandy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2013 03:51 Dirkinity wrote:
Since TaeJa is injured they won like 1 matchup out of at least 6? ...thats pretty terrible! SKT went worse during this period, I think. So, EG-TL, don't be too hard on yourself, your turn will come.
They just need a funeral video. I think this is the key. Ever since Samsung KHAN's funeral video they've won like 7 straight. Then STX had a funeral video and they are doing well.
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On February 03 2013 04:17 Shellshock1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2013 04:08 FineAndDandy wrote:On February 03 2013 03:51 Dirkinity wrote:
Since TaeJa is injured they won like 1 matchup out of at least 6? ...thats pretty terrible! SKT went worse during this period, I think. So, EG-TL, don't be too hard on yourself, your turn will come. They just need a funeral video. I think this is the key. Ever since Samsung KHAN's funeral video they've won like 7 straight. Then STX had a funeral video and they are doing well.
What are those 'funeral videos' that you speak of?
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United States97277 Posts
On February 03 2013 04:25 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2013 04:17 Shellshock1122 wrote:On February 03 2013 04:08 FineAndDandy wrote:On February 03 2013 03:51 Dirkinity wrote:
Since TaeJa is injured they won like 1 matchup out of at least 6? ...thats pretty terrible! SKT went worse during this period, I think. So, EG-TL, don't be too hard on yourself, your turn will come. They just need a funeral video. I think this is the key. Ever since Samsung KHAN's funeral video they've won like 7 straight. Then STX had a funeral video and they are doing well. What are those 'funeral videos' that you speak of?
before they played some matches spotv put on these inspirational videos of the teams where it was like "we'll try harder to win!" type stuff. let me see if I can find them on youtube or something. They reminded me of the GSL Idra video which made it seem like Greg died.
damn they cut the vods to right to the start of the first game instead of the downtime leading up to them. this might be harder to find
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Puma is 0-6 while Thorzain is 1-3
I think we should give Thorzain more showtime.
(sure hes streaming hots all day long lol)
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im startting to wonder if there might be contractal needs to let the weaker players play again and again
maybe theres a need to let play the same number of players from each team again and again
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On February 03 2013 04:17 Shellshock1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2013 04:08 FineAndDandy wrote:On February 03 2013 03:51 Dirkinity wrote:
Since TaeJa is injured they won like 1 matchup out of at least 6? ...thats pretty terrible! SKT went worse during this period, I think. So, EG-TL, don't be too hard on yourself, your turn will come. They just need a funeral video. I think this is the key. Ever since Samsung KHAN's funeral video they've won like 7 straight. Then STX had a funeral video and they are doing well.
lol, never heard that, i know what you mean, but still, i thought you wanted them dead.
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United States7483 Posts
Why are they playing Puma instead of ThorZaIN, or Zenio instead of ThorZaIN?
EG-TL needs Taeja back T_T.
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United States97277 Posts
Zenio is better than Thorzain
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On February 02 2013 17:46 0dem wrote:Come on, let´s look at it from a different perspective: EGTL is playing in fu**ing PROLEAGUE!! Who would have thought that this might be true some day two or three years ago? I am pretty sure that almost nobody did! To quote Gandalf: "There was never much hope; Only a fool could hope." Let us just be grateful for the possibility to see "our" team, the team that represents the foreign community like no other teams, fight against the legends of BW on a daily basis! Everytime I switch on SPL there is a match going on between two players we used to admire and look up to in the oldern days. It is just pure awesomeness to see EGTL compete in this scenario. Of course, many people thought that EGTL would crush the BW teams based on the "having played sc2 for longer"-advantage. I guess BW teams make up for that with dedication, passion and a precise practice regime. The first time around should be seen as an experience. Getting to know PL, the pressure in the booth. PL has it´sown rules. And in a season, there will always be a "favorite" that chokes. Just give this team some time to get used to PL and just enjoy the fact, that EGTL is going head to head wit h teams like SKT T!, KT Rolster or KHAN! This alone should be enough. I know it is for me EGTL fighting! ps: Yeah, maybe they aren´t fielding their best players. But still, there is a reason for everything and we can´t look behind the scenes. Let´s cheer for everybody! They fought hard for their dream and maybe if we stop to look at everything with a negative attitude, things will turn around
About half of the players from EG-TL that play in ProLeague are koreans. Not that much of a foreigner team.
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EPT
