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10387 Posts
On January 06 2013 14:48 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 14:47 ArvickHero wrote:On January 06 2013 14:45 opterown wrote:On January 06 2013 14:42 decado90 wrote:On January 06 2013 14:35 opterown wrote:
i still think it's near impossible to play 50-60 meaningful games of sc2 per day This is a bad mindset that is very typical of foreign players. Tell a chess grandmaster that 12 hours of chess in a day is too much. of course, i am very up for high numbers of games and training, but there simply is no time. a meaningful game = full macro game, no BO counter or cheese wins, not micro training etc. at average game length of about 20 minutes and accounting for food, bathroom, gym, other commitments and stuff, 60 games is 20+ hours. which is doablleeeee but very difficult in a day. game = game, what is this talk about "meaningful" games lol .. it's such a pervasive mindset w/ foreigners that only prolonged macro games matter, when to Koreans the only thing that matters is the win but if someone sixpools or proxy gates you and you lose, you'd probably just shrug that off and not take all that much from that game compared to a nice, fun marine tank tvt or something.
Again, it's not about how the game was played, it's about if you won or not. Flash said 50-60 games, not 50-60 long macro games. Whether its an early proxy rush, a timing attack, or a strategy cheese, what matters is the win.
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Why do young guys need 8 hours sleep anyway? 6 hours are plenty.
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Guys, are you really sitting there and arguing about this?
Do you think Flash took out a notepad and counted how many games he played?
He said "50-60" as a random average number to mean "a shit ton".
Can we move on now?
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Flash my boy! Well done! :D
In the bw days, kespa pros did not play on ladder, they just played internally against other pros. They had practice partners both in the A team and the B team and sometimes from other pro teams. This meant that they did not waste time playing amateurs and made sure that almost every game was meaningful. I think they continue this tradition for sc2 but correct me if I'm wrong.
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On January 06 2013 14:50 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 14:49 bo1b wrote:On January 06 2013 14:47 ArvickHero wrote:On January 06 2013 14:45 opterown wrote:On January 06 2013 14:42 decado90 wrote:On January 06 2013 14:35 opterown wrote:
i still think it's near impossible to play 50-60 meaningful games of sc2 per day This is a bad mindset that is very typical of foreign players. Tell a chess grandmaster that 12 hours of chess in a day is too much. of course, i am very up for high numbers of games and training, but there simply is no time. a meaningful game = full macro game, no BO counter or cheese wins, not micro training etc. at average game length of about 20 minutes and accounting for food, bathroom, gym, other commitments and stuff, 60 games is 20+ hours. which is doablleeeee but very difficult in a day. game = game, what is this talk about "meaningful" games lol .. it's such a pervasive mindset w/ foreigners that only prolonged macro games matter, when to Koreans the only thing that matters is the win Practicing proxy two rax all day will only get you so far. It gets you this far ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/RxNnal.jpg)
I love Mvp... Hope he wins the last GSL of WoL.
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On January 06 2013 14:54 Nebuchad wrote:
Guys, are you really sitting there and arguing about this?
Do you think Flash took out a notepad and counted how many games he played?
He said "50-60" as a random average number to mean "a shit ton".
Can we move on now?
He has coaches to count matches, and then tell him. They probably do that for every players anyway.
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On January 06 2013 14:46 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 14:43 tiMelEfT wrote:On January 06 2013 14:38 opterown wrote:On January 06 2013 14:36 VoirDire wrote:On January 06 2013 14:25 MosART wrote:
50-60 games..maybe 30 games on cheesing, kill you opponent in 10min or less. Flash did started out as a great cheeser. An average game is about 18 game minutes (source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=240774) which is about 13 real minutes. 60 games * 13 minutes = 13 hours, which isn't unreasonable for a BW pro. And flash probably wins faster in practice. even still you still need to search for games, eat, gym, bathroom, etc. and the KR ladder isn't always teeming with games, especially high GM from about morning to early afternoon. unless the games are 100% inhouse, it's really really hard to pull off. 16 hours practice with 1 hour eating, that's 15 hours. Constant playing for 15 hours guarantees more than 60 games. And he probably slept less than 8 hours the day before official matches anyway, that will give him probably close to 18 hours the day before. Even 4 hours sleep is not a surprise. constantly playing for 15 hours at ~20 minute average games is about 45 games, not sixty i guess. 40-45 games i think is a realistic number, not the 60 that is quoted. maybe sometimes on certain days he reaches 60, but i expect more like 40 games per day.
20 min avg? That's an average of almost 30 in game minutes. Those are long games. Also, he said 50-60. There's a range. With some games being cheese and some being long macro, it's possible.
I don't know why it needs to be argued. It's obvious he's probably putting in 12 or more hours every day. If he keeps doing that he will eventually beat everyone.
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On January 06 2013 14:54 aupstar wrote:
Flash my boy! Well done! :D
In the bw days, kespa pros did not play on ladder, they just played internally against other pros. They had practice partners both in the A team and the B team and sometimes from other pro teams. This meant that they did not waste time playing amateurs and made sure that almost every game was meaningful. I think they continue this tradition for sc2 but correct me if I'm wrong.
I think the inhouse practice in BW was both cuz of proleague and also the fact that BW was played on LAN so inhouse practice on lan was just the way to go. I would guess the played most likely only ladder for a loooooooong time with the sc2 switch but by now they probably practice inhouse again because of Proleague. Also because they are pretty good at this game by now so they don't need the ladder to learn the game anymore.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On January 06 2013 14:56 Gosi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 14:54 aupstar wrote:
Flash my boy! Well done! :D
In the bw days, kespa pros did not play on ladder, they just played internally against other pros. They had practice partners both in the A team and the B team and sometimes from other pro teams. This meant that they did not waste time playing amateurs and made sure that almost every game was meaningful. I think they continue this tradition for sc2 but correct me if I'm wrong. I think the inhouse practice in BW was both cuz of proleague and also the fact that BW was played on LAN so inhouse practice on lan was just the way to go. I would guess the played most likely only ladder for a loooooooong time with the sc2 switch but by now they probably practice inhouse again because of Proleague.
yeah i remember rain saying he was so far ahead of everyone else in SKT for a long time that he only had ladder to practice, but the BW players are probably good enough now
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On January 06 2013 14:55 vesicular wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 14:46 opterown wrote:On January 06 2013 14:43 tiMelEfT wrote:On January 06 2013 14:38 opterown wrote:On January 06 2013 14:36 VoirDire wrote:On January 06 2013 14:25 MosART wrote:
50-60 games..maybe 30 games on cheesing, kill you opponent in 10min or less. Flash did started out as a great cheeser. An average game is about 18 game minutes (source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=240774) which is about 13 real minutes. 60 games * 13 minutes = 13 hours, which isn't unreasonable for a BW pro. And flash probably wins faster in practice. even still you still need to search for games, eat, gym, bathroom, etc. and the KR ladder isn't always teeming with games, especially high GM from about morning to early afternoon. unless the games are 100% inhouse, it's really really hard to pull off. 16 hours practice with 1 hour eating, that's 15 hours. Constant playing for 15 hours guarantees more than 60 games. And he probably slept less than 8 hours the day before official matches anyway, that will give him probably close to 18 hours the day before. Even 4 hours sleep is not a surprise. constantly playing for 15 hours at ~20 minute average games is about 45 games, not sixty i guess. 40-45 games i think is a realistic number, not the 60 that is quoted. maybe sometimes on certain days he reaches 60, but i expect more like 40 games per day. 20 min avg? That's an average of almost 30 in game minutes. Those are long games. Also, he said 50-60. There's a range. With some games being cheese and some being long macro, it's possible. I don't know why it needs to be argued. It's obvious he's probably putting in 12 or more hours every day. If he keeps doing that he will eventually beat everyone.
Yea, I think people are confusing Blizzard minutes with real minutes lol.
2/2 200/200 3 base marine tank timing hits z at 15:00 Blizzard time.
High multitasking TvP's can easily end by 13:00.
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On January 06 2013 14:45 opterown wrote:
of course, i am very up for high numbers of games and training, but there simply is no time. a meaningful game = full macro game, no BO counter or cheese wins, not micro training etc.
What an awful mindset. Name any endeavor where practice consists of only the 'peak' ideal performance repeated over and over to completion every time. Your assertion is akin to an athletic team practicing by doing nothing but scrimming full games over and over against the same team with no changes in strategy(ok maybe slight changes, since you will face at least 3 different matchups, but still only 'full macro game, no BO counter or cheese wins.')
I don't want to say there is no endeavor in life that could be done successfully with that attitude, but if there are some they are certainly very few in number.
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On January 06 2013 14:41 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 14:41 Dodgin wrote:On January 06 2013 14:39 Kznn wrote:On January 06 2013 14:33 rysecake wrote:On January 06 2013 14:33 Anta wrote:On January 06 2013 14:29 TommyP wrote:On January 06 2013 14:27 Anta wrote:On January 06 2013 14:25 rysecake wrote:On January 06 2013 14:24 Anta wrote:On January 06 2013 14:20 Dodgin wrote:
[quote]
I have to agree Revival is better, he just choked badly today. lol Revival isn't anywhere near Stephano. you're right. he isn't anywhere near. he's way too far above him you will eat your words as always I like Stephano. I dont like how people think Stephano is better than zergs such as Leenock, ViOlet, DRG and Life. you know how much stephano trained in is whole carrier? it equals maybe 3 month training of those you mentioned just let him sit one month in korea and see ah yes, the good ol' stephano is so talented he only has trained for 3 months bullshit I really can`t stand this kind of shit TT those fanboys are so sad. what's worse, flash fanboys, stephano fanboys or EG-TL fanboys!? + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://www.fomos.kr/board/photo/1226749370_1.jpg)
LOL
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On January 06 2013 14:37 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 14:28 AgentW wrote:On January 06 2013 14:25 Dodgin wrote:On January 06 2013 14:24 Anta wrote:On January 06 2013 14:20 Dodgin wrote:On January 06 2013 14:20 Lillpapps wrote:On January 06 2013 14:19 TommyP wrote:On January 06 2013 14:18 Aerisky wrote:
Flash is just... wow lol.
No words, no excuses for that loss. Pretty sure stephano even couldn't do anything about it. Just ridicuous lol. Revival is better than Stephano anyway. are you serious? I have to agree Revival is better, he just choked badly today. lol Revival isn't anywhere near Stephano. Revival wouldn't have lost to xlord I'm sorry, but this logic is just absolute trash. Xlord lost to Symbol who is better than Revival who lost to Snute who's lost to a lot of people. See the problem? okay, Revival is better than Stephano in general, as shown by him killing FXO's 3 best players in IPTL this week.
Sorry, that's one single result. Stephano took down 4 GSL Champions at Korea vs the World. Either way, using such a small sample of games to reach a conclusion like that is silly.
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Flash warming up for his GSL U&D group!
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United States33655 Posts
BW Flash fans need to channel more of their energy into being elitist about following Flash for longer than SC2 flash fans
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Wow, took a nap, overslept a bit and woke up to a Flash all kill. Sad I missed it, but happy he is my FPL captain hahaha!
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On January 06 2013 15:10 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 14:37 Dodgin wrote:On January 06 2013 14:28 AgentW wrote:On January 06 2013 14:25 Dodgin wrote:On January 06 2013 14:24 Anta wrote:On January 06 2013 14:20 Dodgin wrote:On January 06 2013 14:20 Lillpapps wrote:On January 06 2013 14:19 TommyP wrote:On January 06 2013 14:18 Aerisky wrote:
Flash is just... wow lol.
No words, no excuses for that loss. Pretty sure stephano even couldn't do anything about it. Just ridicuous lol. Revival is better than Stephano anyway. are you serious? I have to agree Revival is better, he just choked badly today. lol Revival isn't anywhere near Stephano. Revival wouldn't have lost to xlord I'm sorry, but this logic is just absolute trash. Xlord lost to Symbol who is better than Revival who lost to Snute who's lost to a lot of people. See the problem? okay, Revival is better than Stephano in general, as shown by him killing FXO's 3 best players in IPTL this week. Sorry, that's one single result. Stephano took down 4 GSL Champions at Korea vs the World. Either way, using such a small sample of games to reach a conclusion like that is silly.
I don't understand why you defend someone who doesn't practice at all, okay maybe he's more talented than Revival but he's not showing it because he doesn't care enough to play the game. He flopped out of every tournament since lone star clash. the korea vs the world was the only impressive thing he's done since WCS EU.
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United States97276 Posts
On January 06 2013 15:12 Waxangel wrote:
BW Flash fans need to channel more of their energy into being elitist about following Flash for longer than SC2 flash fans
Dont worry. It'll happen when he starts doing better in the GSL
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On January 06 2013 15:08 red_ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 14:45 opterown wrote:
of course, i am very up for high numbers of games and training, but there simply is no time. a meaningful game = full macro game, no BO counter or cheese wins, not micro training etc. What an awful mindset. Name any endeavor where practice consists of only the 'peak' ideal performance repeated over and over to completion every time. Your assertion is akin to an athletic team practicing by doing nothing but scrimming full games over and over against the same team with no changes in strategy(ok maybe slight changes, since you will face at least 3 different matchups, but still only 'full macro game, no BO counter or cheese wins.') I don't want to say there is no endeavor in life that could be done successfully with that attitude, but if there are some they are certainly very few in number.
Why are you arguing?
1) People here know what flash does in his practice. Flash doesnt.
2) People here know better how to practice to be a top player. Flash doesnt.
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On January 06 2013 15:10 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 14:37 Dodgin wrote:On January 06 2013 14:28 AgentW wrote:On January 06 2013 14:25 Dodgin wrote:On January 06 2013 14:24 Anta wrote:On January 06 2013 14:20 Dodgin wrote:On January 06 2013 14:20 Lillpapps wrote:On January 06 2013 14:19 TommyP wrote:On January 06 2013 14:18 Aerisky wrote:
Flash is just... wow lol.
No words, no excuses for that loss. Pretty sure stephano even couldn't do anything about it. Just ridicuous lol. Revival is better than Stephano anyway. are you serious? I have to agree Revival is better, he just choked badly today. lol Revival isn't anywhere near Stephano. Revival wouldn't have lost to xlord I'm sorry, but this logic is just absolute trash. Xlord lost to Symbol who is better than Revival who lost to Snute who's lost to a lot of people. See the problem? okay, Revival is better than Stephano in general, as shown by him killing FXO's 3 best players in IPTL this week. Sorry, that's one single result. Stephano took down 4 GSL Champions at Korea vs the World. Either way, using such a small sample of games to reach a conclusion like that is silly.
You do realize you used one example yourself. ._. They're both good. Move on.
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EPT
