On December 03 2012 04:58 MasterKang wrote: [quote]
Not at all. MVP's bio play stands no chance against zerg, and his mech play isn't that great either
Mvp, mech, and not great in the same sentence. You don't have my respect.
Life vs MVP? The only games MVP won were when he killed 20+ drones at the 8 min mark
I seriously hope you are trolling.
link me to the games where MVP straight up outplays Life with mech
And killing 20+ drones at the 8 min mark isn't outplaying ? If anything one should wonder why terran needs to outplay so hard in the early game to have a chance of winning the game....
no it's called Life's baffling refusal to build a roach warren and trying to hold with pure lings
Lol, ok. You do realize that (despite balance) winning / losing the game is always influenced by your opponent making a mistake.
Your argument is: yes Mvp won but that is only because Life made a mistake.
In case you don't realize this is what always happens. One player must make (more) mistakes for other to win.
My argument is MVP won only when Life made a gold league mistake. In straight up macro games where both players entered the mid-game with no insane disadvantage, Life would always win with the exception of game 5. Read the recap, the writers pointed out Life's baffling refusal to build a roach warren. Please learn this game better
Finals ended 4:3 for Life. So what are you actually saying? 4 times GSL champion only beats zerg when zerg makes gold league mistakes? By your reasoning zerg must be really imbalanced, all the more reasons to give credit to Mvp.
Life makes a lot of gold league mistakes for a Code S player?
I am done talking to you, this conversation is dumb.
a conversation is only dumb when someone refuses to present substantial ideas, which you are guilty of at the moment
Game 3+4: Life doesn't build roaches. Life loses economy to blue flame helions. MVP pushes with mech and ends game. Game 5 is the only game where MVP wins after NOT completely destroying Life's eco in the early game
you are crusading pretty hard for this, I have to wonder why.
Yeah it took me so long to open gomtv and find the GSL final link (10 seconds)
I'm talking more about the 10+ replies trying to convince everyone Mvp sucks even though no one seems to agree with you
because everyone whos disagreeing with me is probably gold or doesn't even play the game and therefore has no knowledge of the game whatsoever. Everyone just jumps on the "MVP is god" bandwagon and refuses to back up their statements with substantial evidence
Nobody's saying he's god. They're just saying his mech is good. Obviously mortal, but lethal. You're saying it's weak and that's not true.
I never said "it's weak" I said it's not as great as people make it out to be, and they always cite Life vs MVP as a testament to the fact that MVP's mech is godly even though his wins came from Life's enormous mistake of not building roaches
For the third time, who has better mech in your opinion?
MVP only plays mech IMO because bio styles that he used to be the best at are hard to practice in his condition. His mech is very good, but as I see it it's him trying to master a style that he can practice properly in his current condition. His mech in TvZ is top tier, but his use of it doesn't validate mech as the 'best' style
Mvp, mech, and not great in the same sentence. You don't have my respect.
Life vs MVP? The only games MVP won were when he killed 20+ drones at the 8 min mark
I seriously hope you are trolling.
link me to the games where MVP straight up outplays Life with mech
And killing 20+ drones at the 8 min mark isn't outplaying ? If anything one should wonder why terran needs to outplay so hard in the early game to have a chance of winning the game....
no it's called Life's baffling refusal to build a roach warren and trying to hold with pure lings
Lol, ok. You do realize that (despite balance) winning / losing the game is always influenced by your opponent making a mistake.
Your argument is: yes Mvp won but that is only because Life made a mistake.
In case you don't realize this is what always happens. One player must make (more) mistakes for other to win.
My argument is MVP won only when Life made a gold league mistake. In straight up macro games where both players entered the mid-game with no insane disadvantage, Life would always win with the exception of game 5. Read the recap, the writers pointed out Life's baffling refusal to build a roach warren. Please learn this game better
Finals ended 4:3 for Life. So what are you actually saying? 4 times GSL champion only beats zerg when zerg makes gold league mistakes? By your reasoning zerg must be really imbalanced, all the more reasons to give credit to Mvp.
Life makes a lot of gold league mistakes for a Code S player?
I am done talking to you, this conversation is dumb.
a conversation is only dumb when someone refuses to present substantial ideas, which you are guilty of at the moment
Well you are being kind of dumb saying life made "gold" league level mistakes and that's the only reason he lost to MVP lol.
Also how can you say Polt has better TvT then MKP when MKP beats polt all the time? are you just massively trolling right now or really that ignorant? (for the record I don't like MKP).
On December 03 2012 05:30 Schelim wrote: goddamn it i go away to eat some oranges and have some tea (got a rather hefty cold) and zvZ isn't done yet? =/
Game 3+4: Life doesn't build roaches. Life loses economy to blue flame helions. MVP pushes with mech and ends game. Game 5 is the only game where MVP wins after NOT completely destroying Life's eco in the early game
you are crusading pretty hard for this, I have to wonder why.
Yeah it took me so long to open gomtv and find the GSL final link (10 seconds)
I'm talking more about the 10+ replies trying to convince everyone Mvp sucks even though no one seems to agree with you
Maybe if he tries hard enough he'll convert someone.
You'd be surprised then how many non commenting folk do agree with him. Secondly whether he is right or wrong, he's advancing his idea with arguments. So far I've seen him called a troll and that's about it.
thank you someone who doesnt' jump on the "omg he criticized MVP's play? he must be a troll" bandwagon.
Game 3+4: Life doesn't build roaches. Life loses economy to blue flame helions. MVP pushes with mech and ends game. Game 5 is the only game where MVP wins after NOT completely destroying Life's eco in the early game
you are crusading pretty hard for this, I have to wonder why.
Yeah it took me so long to open gomtv and find the GSL final link (10 seconds)
I'm talking more about the 10+ replies trying to convince everyone Mvp sucks even though no one seems to agree with you
he doesn't suck he just isn't amazing as some people would suggest
Game 3+4: Life doesn't build roaches. Life loses economy to blue flame helions. MVP pushes with mech and ends game. Game 5 is the only game where MVP wins after NOT completely destroying Life's eco in the early game
you are crusading pretty hard for this, I have to wonder why.
Yeah it took me so long to open gomtv and find the GSL final link (10 seconds)
I'm talking more about the 10+ replies trying to convince everyone Mvp sucks even though no one seems to agree with you
because everyone whos disagreeing with me is probably gold or doesn't even play the game and therefore has no knowledge of the game whatsoever. Everyone just jumps on the "MVP is god" bandwagon and refuses to back up their statements with substantial evidence
Nobody's saying he's god. They're just saying his mech is good. Obviously mortal, but lethal. You're saying it's weak and that's not true.
I never said "it's weak" I said it's not as great as people make it out to be, and they always cite Life vs MVP as a testament to the fact that MVP's mech is godly even though his wins came from Life's enormous mistake of not building roaches
Sorry, but isn't there a compelling argument that all wins are because of mistakes your opponent makes? Either in build order choice, positioning for your battle, or because Mike Morhaime lets David Kim and Dustin Browder make decisions? (There is no whine here, only pointing out the obvious.) If all things are equal (no imbalance in the game, the skill and decisions of the players are completely equal) then it would be a draw.
Also, I feel it germane to point out that Life is 15 years old with no known major health issues, and MVP, even in top form, plays in pain. (Neck issues, wrist issues, etc.)
But anyways, that was a pretty damn nice defense from Violet.
EPT
