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[Code S] RO8 Day 1 2012 GSL Season 5 - Page 8

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 10 105 Next
ibo422
Profile Joined April 2012
Belgium2844 Posts
November 20 2012 01:10 GMT
#141
Gotto go with creator! It's a bo5, hyun likes bo9's more!
Walitgon
Profile Joined May 2012
Australia550 Posts
November 20 2012 01:30 GMT
#142
On November 20 2012 09:41 TeeTS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2012 09:22 Walitgon wrote:
On November 20 2012 09:08 Dodgin wrote:
On November 20 2012 08:51 Walitgon wrote:
Why is everybody so worried about recent replays of Creator? Just because you know one of a few builds is coming doesn't mean you can stop it... Everybody at BWC had his replays to watch too, they couldn't stop him.

It's a very small factor imho


It's a huge deal, actually. The only reason it didn't come into play more at BWC is because it was a two day tournament with very little time between games. Did you not read Parting's winner interview where he mentioned Suppy looked at his replays vs Scarlett in the previous round? Suppy almost won that series.

Of course It's possible Hyun still won't be able to stop his 3 base all ins but if Creator is smart which he is he might do some different builds.


True but let's say Hyun sees creator take three bases and expects one of the three pre-hive timings:

(a) +3 mass blink stalker push;
(b) +3 immortal + gateway push; or
(c) +3 chargelot collosus push.

I can't imagine replays helping that much in such a situation.

- If you noticed that Creator loves (a), you go mass ling infestor; if he decides to do (c), you're dead.
- If you see robo and you go mass roach corrupter and Creator picked (b), you're dead.
- If you expect see a robo but no support bay and mass up spines which are effective against (b) and then Creator goes (c), you're in trouble again.

Of course, replays may help you work out things like:

(a) How often Creator will go two base all-in;
(b) When Creator opens stargate; whether he hides phoenix;
(c) Whether he's susceptible to counter-aggression;
(d) Whether he skimps on defence which is exploitable;
(e) Whether he opts for early DT play;
and so on.

However, I just don't see that mattering that much. Creator is too solid. Thus:

(a) Even if Creator goes two base all-in, he can still win it with execution (wonwonwon style)
(b) So what if Creator hides his phoenix? A queen and forced spores plus a few drones is already cost-efficient.
(c) I don't think Creator has a huge weakness in being susceptible to counter-aggression, so what is there to find?
(d) I don't think Creator skimps on defence; he plays a very solid style, not really taking outrageously timed 3rds or 4ths.
(e) He generally doesn't opt for gimmicky play like DTs,
and so on.

Hence why I don't think viewing his replays is that useful. It's not like, e.g. MVP v Life where it is patently obvious that Life is so ling heavy and avoids roaches at all costs, therefore opening himself to blue-flame play. I can't see anything in Creator's play that makes you think 'wow, this is going to be a big benefit to me'.

But then again, I've been wrong before. -_-


You are right. Creator has no obvious holes in his play. But it's really helpful to know his timings. This is why I think no tournament should release replays. It's so much easier to get onto exact builds and timings with replays than it is with VODs. I think international tournaments should protect the participating players here more.


Hmm. I still struggle to see the usefulness. You know he has a few two base timings at 9:00-10:00, otherwise it's 3 base at ~ 15:00. Nothing else really happens.

I suppose you could rule out that weird timing that Rain did with 8 gates off 3 base on Entombed Valley against Idra (which hit SUPER early, like at ~12:00). But even if you ruled out 'unconventional' timings such as that one, then what? There are still a variety of builds that hit around the same standard times which are really hard to stop if your opponent outplays you.

I can't see any significant way to adjust your play given that you know a timing more precisely. E.g. if you know Creator hits at ~16:00 because he likes to chrono out +1 armour to give him 3/1, what is that really going to enable you to do? He'll still be out on the map for presence, and zerg will be spamming spine / ling / roach / infestor knowing the push is incoming. Having known previously that it comes ~1:00 later, but with better upgrades will not - in my opinion - help you that much.

I mean, time and time again, we see zergs teching to hive, taking their fourth, spining up, and just dying to the 3 base push. And excellent zergs, like DRG, too. They know it's coming, with or without replays of their opponents, but they can't stop it.

But hey, I guess it's better to have the replays than to not have them.
BRB laddering ^_^ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Mackus
Profile Joined January 2011
England1681 Posts
November 20 2012 01:37 GMT
#143
The irony is with Hyun if Rain didn't drop his Code S seed it would be unlikely he'd be here right now but in the meantime in IPL he beaten Brown and Parting who are both very very good PvZ'ers

Ryung's lost his TvT gimmick in favour of becoming a better well-rounded which is a good thing because you don't win GSL's winning TvT's unless it was 5 seasons ago I think MKP is the better TvTer out them both but both games should be close..
Zenbrez
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada5973 Posts
November 20 2012 01:41 GMT
#144
Go Prime!
Refer to my post.
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
November 20 2012 01:43 GMT
#145
On November 20 2012 10:37 Mackus wrote:
The irony is with Hyun if Rain didn't drop his Code S seed it would be unlikely he'd be here right now but in the meantime in IPL he beaten Brown and Parting who are both very very good PvZ'ers

Ryung's lost his TvT gimmick in favour of becoming a better well-rounded which is a good thing because you don't win GSL's winning TvT's unless it was 5 seasons ago I think MKP is the better TvTer out them both but both games should be close..


Parting didn't use his soul, so that doesn't count.
Moderator
Corrosive
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada3741 Posts
November 20 2012 02:31 GMT
#146
i have a feeling that marineking vs ryung is either going to be crazy sick series of the year quality or just shit quality, nothing in between.

going to be cool to see creator vs hyun too but im looking more forward to the tvt
Maruprime.
FakeDeath
Profile Joined January 2011
Malaysia6060 Posts
November 20 2012 02:32 GMT
#147
On November 20 2012 11:31 Corrosive wrote:
i have a feeling that marineking vs ryung is either going to be crazy sick series of the year quality or just shit quality, nothing in between.

going to be cool to see creator vs hyun too but im looking more forward to the tvt


Yeah.

Ryung vs MKP could be a potentially great TvT series.

So sick of seeing many PvZ on WCS.
Play your best
asdfOu
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2089 Posts
November 20 2012 04:12 GMT
#148
leggo prime. you got this
rip prime
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
November 20 2012 04:54 GMT
#149
I haven't been this nervous for a day of GSL in a long time. I think both of these series will be close 3-2s that could go either way. D:
Come on Prime! Please win
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
Caihead
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada8550 Posts
November 20 2012 04:56 GMT
#150
MarineKing it's time for you to win a GSL title!
"If you're not living in the US or are a US Citizen, please do not tell us how to vote or how you want our country to be governed." - Serpest, American Hero
Laryleprakon
Profile Joined May 2011
New Zealand9496 Posts
November 20 2012 04:57 GMT
#151
Ryung 3-0 would make me happy ^_^

I dunno how to get excited for more PvZ after Bwc, but Hyun might make it fun.
Apus
Profile Joined November 2010
New Zealand74 Posts
November 20 2012 04:58 GMT
#152
Scary opponents for the Primes, but I think they'll pull through. Hopefully jetlag doesn't affect Creator too much, Protoss needs to survive past RO8!
alainysaur
Profile Joined September 2012
United States131 Posts
November 20 2012 05:10 GMT
#153
On November 20 2012 13:58 Apus wrote:
Scary opponents for the Primes, but I think they'll pull through. Hopefully jetlag doesn't affect Creator too much, Protoss needs to survive past RO8!


Jet lag from China to Korea? I think he'll be fine
Chunhyang
Profile Joined December 2011
Bangladesh1389 Posts
November 20 2012 05:24 GMT
#154
T's have always been them most exciting players to watch. Far more than the others by a large amount. Go MKP Ryung!
If you could reason with haters, there would be no haters. YGTMYFT
pieisamazing
Profile Joined May 2009
United States1234 Posts
November 20 2012 05:31 GMT
#155
I'm kind of sad we got these two MUs. A TvZ and PvT would have been more interesting, imo.
connoisseur
red4ce
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States7313 Posts
November 20 2012 05:34 GMT
#156
It's too bad Hyun and Creator can't both advance, and Ryung and MKP can't both lose.
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
November 20 2012 05:40 GMT
#157
On November 20 2012 14:10 alainysaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2012 13:58 Apus wrote:
Scary opponents for the Primes, but I think they'll pull through. Hopefully jetlag doesn't affect Creator too much, Protoss needs to survive past RO8!


Jet lag from China to Korea? I think he'll be fine

not so much jetlag, but being tired i guess
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
alainysaur
Profile Joined September 2012
United States131 Posts
November 20 2012 05:44 GMT
#158
On November 20 2012 14:40 opterown wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2012 14:10 alainysaur wrote:
On November 20 2012 13:58 Apus wrote:
Scary opponents for the Primes, but I think they'll pull through. Hopefully jetlag doesn't affect Creator too much, Protoss needs to survive past RO8!


Jet lag from China to Korea? I think he'll be fine

not so much jetlag, but being tired i guess


Hope not >_> I want a Protoss in the finals.
KristofferAG
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Norway25712 Posts
November 20 2012 05:46 GMT
#159
Still awake, awww yiss,
@KristofferAG | http://vestkyststoy.bandcamp.com | last.fm/user/KristofferAG
189984268
Profile Joined August 2012
Canada299 Posts
November 20 2012 06:04 GMT
#160
gooooooo MKP

gooooooooo Prime
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