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On October 05 2012 13:50 i.of.the.storm wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 13:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I missed Sea vs. Happy. Apparently 2-0 Happy. Did Sea get rolled? What happened? Sea suicided his army into tank lines a bunch of times in game 1 and threw away a pretty good macro advantage (both went marine tank but Sea was more marine heavy). Game 2 he did a bit better at not suiciding his armies but Happy had better positioning overall IMO, which is key in TvT.
I was afraid of this... Joining TL is very cool ofc, but leaving a KeSPA team is a bad sign imo. I think these guys see foreign teams as a place to go to earn an easy buck instead of retiring.
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On October 05 2012 14:33 Liquid`TLO wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 12:47 Benjamin99 wrote:On October 05 2012 12:43 Mauldo wrote:On October 05 2012 12:24 Empire.Mista wrote:
Miss placing my nexus is not a keyboard mistake.
When i have smthing to say i say it , if you dont want to see/hear it close your eyes/ears , i felt dissapointed that tlo didnt remake game 1 later , i would . You're a pro. Suck it up. Going on the forums and bitching that TLO didn't give you a completely unnecessary and completely unwarranted regame isn't going to get you fans, get people to understand where you're coming from, or get us to blame TLO for not giving a regame. It's not his fault, it's yours. To be fair to Mista. He had huge lag issues and TLO should have provided a re game if he had any kind of sportsmanship. But you do got a point no need to bitch about it rules are rules. I did offer to play the games even later, but he said "it's okay." ingame mistakes have absolutely nothing to do with sportsmanship though. And I think no progamer should ever regame in a competition because someone made a mistake ingame. I screwed up so many games, where do you draw the line? Oops I got supply blocked... Regame? It's the nature of competition, Lag is another Issue, but not really my fault when Mista agreed to start the game. I didn't put any pressure on him and would have played the game at any other time.
This is good sportsmanship imo. TLO fighting!
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Lucky TL, Empire came one game from winning, and that was with Taeja on the field.
Empire are a good team and all but for a team with 50% Koreans now these are series TL has got to be winning convincingly. Good to see TLO with a win on the board though, and I can't fathom what's happened to Ret.
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The biggest thing about Sea that I gathered from this is that he might not understand TvT to the level we expect from pros. He repeatedly stimmed into tank lines, he never dropped to fuck with the immobility that is mech (even with the turret rings, he could have tried run bys or something. Viking to tank the missiles maybe? Anything other than running into tank lines up hill), he basically hoped macro would get him through. Sure, Taeja relies on God Macro, but Taeja also balances it with great in game decisions most of the time.
Here's to hoping you get some TvT against Taeja in Sea. You were born for Liquid.
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On October 05 2012 14:33 Liquid`TLO wrote:
I did offer to play the games even later, but he said "it's okay."
ingame mistakes have absolutely nothing to do with sportsmanship though. And I think no progamer should ever regame in a competition because someone made a mistake ingame. I screwed up so many games, where do you draw the line? Oops I got supply blocked... Regame?
It's the nature of competition, Lag is another Issue, but not really my fault when Mista agreed to start the game. I didn't put any pressure on him and would have played the game at any other time.
I think you did it right... And actually that course of action was more respectful towards Mista then it would have been to grant him the regame. This course of action respects his ability as a player, and it also dismisses the begging/complaining he did as a "heat of the moment" thing... if it had been me, and someone had actually granted the rematch, my behavior and the outcome would have been nagging me after that.
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On October 05 2012 15:05 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 14:33 Liquid`TLO wrote:On October 05 2012 12:47 Benjamin99 wrote:On October 05 2012 12:43 Mauldo wrote:On October 05 2012 12:24 Empire.Mista wrote:
Miss placing my nexus is not a keyboard mistake.
When i have smthing to say i say it , if you dont want to see/hear it close your eyes/ears , i felt dissapointed that tlo didnt remake game 1 later , i would . You're a pro. Suck it up. Going on the forums and bitching that TLO didn't give you a completely unnecessary and completely unwarranted regame isn't going to get you fans, get people to understand where you're coming from, or get us to blame TLO for not giving a regame. It's not his fault, it's yours. To be fair to Mista. He had huge lag issues and TLO should have provided a re game if he had any kind of sportsmanship. But you do got a point no need to bitch about it rules are rules. I did offer to play the games even later, but he said "it's okay." ingame mistakes have absolutely nothing to do with sportsmanship though. And I think no progamer should ever regame in a competition because someone made a mistake ingame. I screwed up so many games, where do you draw the line? Oops I got supply blocked... Regame? It's the nature of competition, Lag is another Issue, but not really my fault when Mista agreed to start the game. I didn't put any pressure on him and would have played the game at any other time. Got to agree with TLO here. I mean do you get a regame if you miss a forcefield? Mismicro a banshee? Got caught with a huge fungal?
I wish there should be the option to save the game and each time a player makes a mistake, you restart the game from the last save and see how the game goes with both players playing absolutely perfectly 
Infinite game incoming.
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Never under any circumstances should a tournament game be restarted due to played mistakes. Suck it up and learn from them.
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i totaly agree with TLO. It's a compatision! Even if Mista missplaced the nexus because of lag, so what? Do we also rematch if you can't control the units perfectly because of lag? Do we do a rematch if you miss a force field?
Mista brought TLO in an uncomfortable situation there. You don't ask for a regame in such a situation that's just bm.
TLO handled the situation very well. Good sportsmanship doesn't mean that you have to give in to ridiculous claims.
Gratz to TLO and TL for winning btw!
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Mista... pretty poor show from you moaning and whining. You made a mistake and lost. That's the game, better luck next time.
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TLO was 100% in the right! Besides Mista was playing really bad and weird.
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What are you guys comparing it to getting supply blocked for? Either he misplaced his nexus in the normal human error sort of way or he misplaced it due to lag. He claims it was the latter. As spectators none of you would have any real idea which it was, so why whine about his whining? What's the point? A baseball game can be played in the rain, but at a certain point the league has to step in and say no. Unfortunately there's no mechanism for that here.
Well, maybe Starcraft 3 will be designed properly and nobody will have to deal with stuff like this. In 2026, I mean.
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On October 05 2012 22:53 lolmlg wrote:
What are you guys comparing it to getting supply blocked for? Either he misplaced his nexus in the normal human error sort of way or he misplaced it due to lag. He claims it was the latter. As spectators none of you would have any real idea which it was, so why whine about his whining? What's the point? A baseball game can be played in the rain, but at a certain point the league has to step in and say no. Unfortunately there's no mechanism for that here.
Well, maybe Starcraft 3 will be designed properly and nobody will have to deal with stuff like this. In 2026, I mean.
People play with lag all the time, especially on online tournaments. That doesn't mean they get to regame. And for all you know, Mista could be lying/exaggerating about the lag. There's no proof, and you can expect lots of people claiming they lost because of lag if it becomes normal to get a regame because of it.
It would kill esports if the games were treated like this.
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On October 05 2012 23:25 Sekken wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 22:53 lolmlg wrote:
What are you guys comparing it to getting supply blocked for? Either he misplaced his nexus in the normal human error sort of way or he misplaced it due to lag. He claims it was the latter. As spectators none of you would have any real idea which it was, so why whine about his whining? What's the point? A baseball game can be played in the rain, but at a certain point the league has to step in and say no. Unfortunately there's no mechanism for that here.
Well, maybe Starcraft 3 will be designed properly and nobody will have to deal with stuff like this. In 2026, I mean. People play with lag all the time, especially on online tournaments. That doesn't mean they get to regame. And for all you know, Mista could be lying/exaggerating about the lag. There's no proof, and you can expect lots of people claiming they lost because of lag if it becomes normal to get a regame because of it. It would kill esports if the games were treated like this.
Ya it is true. And I am sure that most of the major leagues have rules in place for this stuff. Lag happens...as a pro and a team you have to take that into account. As long as the league has rules in place for this then there is no issue.
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On October 05 2012 20:03 Mauldo wrote:Sure, Taeja relies on God Macro, but Taeja also balances it with great in game decisions most of the time.
Here's to hoping you get some TvT against Taeja in Sea. You were born for Liquid.
lolwut
User was warned for this post
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United States15275 Posts
On October 05 2012 18:52 Elroi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 13:50 i.of.the.storm wrote:On October 05 2012 13:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I missed Sea vs. Happy. Apparently 2-0 Happy. Did Sea get rolled? What happened? Sea suicided his army into tank lines a bunch of times in game 1 and threw away a pretty good macro advantage (both went marine tank but Sea was more marine heavy). Game 2 he did a bit better at not suiciding his armies but Happy had better positioning overall IMO, which is key in TvT. I was afraid of this... Joining TL is very cool ofc, but leaving a KeSPA team is a bad sign imo. I think these guys see foreign teams as a place to go to earn an easy buck instead of retiring.
Sea claimed he was stagnating and wanted to leave in order to rejuvenate his career. What's wrong with that? He's probably getting less money on TL too.
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On October 05 2012 20:03 Mauldo wrote:
The biggest thing about Sea that I gathered from this is that he might not understand TvT to the level we expect from pros. He repeatedly stimmed into tank lines, he never dropped to fuck with the immobility that is mech (even with the turret rings, he could have tried run bys or something. Viking to tank the missiles maybe? Anything other than running into tank lines up hill), he basically hoped macro would get him through. Sure, Taeja relies on God Macro, but Taeja also balances it with great in game decisions most of the time.
Here's to hoping you get some TvT against Taeja in Sea. You were born for Liquid.
I have faith that Sea can improve a lot here. Sea's TvT was absolutely, ridiculously monstrous in BW when he was on top of his game, and SC2 TvT is similar in a lot of ways to how it was in BW (at least in terms of things like siege tank positioning, taking advantage of mobility/immobility, etc.).
Once he gets a better understanding of the intricacies of SC2, I think he'll be able to tear it up.
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On October 05 2012 18:52 Elroi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 13:50 i.of.the.storm wrote:On October 05 2012 13:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I missed Sea vs. Happy. Apparently 2-0 Happy. Did Sea get rolled? What happened? Sea suicided his army into tank lines a bunch of times in game 1 and threw away a pretty good macro advantage (both went marine tank but Sea was more marine heavy). Game 2 he did a bit better at not suiciding his armies but Happy had better positioning overall IMO, which is key in TvT. I was afraid of this... Joining TL is very cool ofc, but leaving a KeSPA team is a bad sign imo. I think these guys see foreign teams as a place to go to earn an easy buck instead of retiring.
I think these games demonstrated that Sea's macro is incredible. I truly believe he can improve his strategy and become a monster player.
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Too bad about Mista. You just can't afford to go to the ace against TL, that's pretty much gg right there. :p
On October 05 2012 13:01 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Hmmm, how were the Beastyqt vs Ret matches? I was honestly expecting Ret to win those games.
You did? Has he picked up his vT lately? First week of August he lost to Fuzer (0-2) Satiini (1-2) and HeroMarine (0-2). Haven't seen him since then..I think.
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I didn't see the games, yet, but I would love to see how Sea is currently doing and keep an eye on him in future games to see how fast KeSpa players will develop in this game.
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EPT
