EPTOn August 25 2012 05:27 Squeegy wrote:
Yes, the win over the reigning GSL champion, 2-0 by the way, also happened in the losers bracket. Just to put things into context.
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2012 04:57 mrtomjones wrote:
Don't worry he still doesn't understand that every win happened in the losers bracket.
On August 25 2012 04:16 vthree wrote:
Guess we will see in OSL.
On August 25 2012 04:12 Squeegy wrote:
That would make sense if there were as many Kespa players in the tournament as GSL players. There were not. Of course now you're thinking of "but they failed to qualify". Sure, fair point, but they have progressed quite a bit since the qualifiers. Certainly then GSL players were better, but are they now? I doubt it. And there is no reason to think that the Kespa players who played in this tournament are a special case. They haven't been dominant in PL. The best Kespa players now quite likely are not the best in a few months. What I mean is that the rankings now are volatile due to lack of experience.
Your analogy is unfortunately flawed. M18M beating Flash is indeed a single instance. Kespa beating individual players is not a single instance in the same sense. Sure, Seed lost a single bo3, but GSL lost bo3s consistently.
When the qualifiers were held, Kespa had two months less experience. They have only a few months worth of experience now, two months later. GSL was better during the qualifiers, unfortunately, same does not apply now. Which you of course know but for some reason chose to present this as a point anyway. They have pretty much caught up already.
On August 25 2012 02:01 Wildmoon wrote:
Aren't all the players left in WCS a GSL players? It should be about equal if Kespa's players are as good as GSL in general. There's only few kespa players that standout.
On August 25 2012 01:56 Squeegy wrote:
Yes, generally when people mean something else than they say, then they are misunderstood. Of course, his point wasn't either that Kespa > GSL because of Roro beating Seed. His point is that Kespa is only going to better. Much better. And Kespa is already, quite frankly, on GSL level.
How would I explain it? Easy. Creator despite being young, is actually, and unsurprisingly, far more experienced SC2 player than Roro or Sun. I find it funny that you're implying RTS experience os better than SC2 experience in a situation like this
I think Roro was saving his strategies for PL. And he also isn't used to having play two matches in a day.
On August 25 2012 01:37 vthree wrote:
lol, I guess my post went over your head. I am trying to make the point that you can't base everything off 1 series. I am happy players are doing well. But GSL champ losing to Kespa doesn't mean Kespa > ESF Players or vice versa. I am just trying to show you can make 'facts' very biased. Goody beat MMA.... Naniwa beat Nestea and Mvp back to back (they had 6 GSLs between them at that point)... How else would you explain a 15 year old (Creator) pwning seasoned RTS pros like Rain and Roro who were the best Kespa could offer?
Btw, I think Seed was jetlagged and saving his builds for WCS Asia and WCS Global.
On August 25 2012 01:33 Squeegy wrote:
But the guy who won Code S last season lost to an elephant. I guess even the best player in Code S is not good enough.
On August 25 2012 01:23 vthree wrote:
So the best Elephants got beat by a 15 year old who lost in Ro32 in Code S last season? WTF? I thought Kespa players were supposed to be good? Where is TBLS?
Creator has probably been playing RTS for like 2-3 year? Yet kespa pros who practiced for 14 hours per day for 5-6 years are LOSING?
On August 24 2012 21:49 letian wrote:
Kespa transitioning to SC2 full time shall make a lot of players return to school, lol
Kespa transitioning to SC2 full time shall make a lot of players return to school, lol
So the best Elephants got beat by a 15 year old who lost in Ro32 in Code S last season? WTF? I thought Kespa players were supposed to be good? Where is TBLS?
Creator has probably been playing RTS for like 2-3 year? Yet kespa pros who practiced for 14 hours per day for 5-6 years are LOSING?
But the guy who won Code S last season lost to an elephant. I guess even the best player in Code S is not good enough.
lol, I guess my post went over your head. I am trying to make the point that you can't base everything off 1 series. I am happy players are doing well. But GSL champ losing to Kespa doesn't mean Kespa > ESF Players or vice versa. I am just trying to show you can make 'facts' very biased. Goody beat MMA.... Naniwa beat Nestea and Mvp back to back (they had 6 GSLs between them at that point)... How else would you explain a 15 year old (Creator) pwning seasoned RTS pros like Rain and Roro who were the best Kespa could offer?
Btw, I think Seed was jetlagged and saving his builds for WCS Asia and WCS Global.
Yes, generally when people mean something else than they say, then they are misunderstood. Of course, his point wasn't either that Kespa > GSL because of Roro beating Seed. His point is that Kespa is only going to better. Much better. And Kespa is already, quite frankly, on GSL level.
How would I explain it? Easy. Creator despite being young, is actually, and unsurprisingly, far more experienced SC2 player than Roro or Sun. I find it funny that you're implying RTS experience os better than SC2 experience in a situation like this
I think Roro was saving his strategies for PL. And he also isn't used to having play two matches in a day.
Aren't all the players left in WCS a GSL players? It should be about equal if Kespa's players are as good as GSL in general. There's only few kespa players that standout.
That would make sense if there were as many Kespa players in the tournament as GSL players. There were not. Of course now you're thinking of "but they failed to qualify". Sure, fair point, but they have progressed quite a bit since the qualifiers. Certainly then GSL players were better, but are they now? I doubt it. And there is no reason to think that the Kespa players who played in this tournament are a special case. They haven't been dominant in PL. The best Kespa players now quite likely are not the best in a few months. What I mean is that the rankings now are volatile due to lack of experience.
On August 25 2012 02:02 vthree wrote:
sarcasm...
Since M18M beat Flash in PL last season, it was obvious that B-teamers were catching up to TBLS. TBLS is lucky they transition to SC2 or they would have to wash dishes.
How is Kespa on GSL level when only Reality made it through the qualifiers? You can say the top Kespa players (the fast adapting ones) are Code A/S level. But overall, I think ESF players are stronger than Kespa. Of course, with time, they will catch up.
On August 25 2012 01:56 Squeegy wrote:
Yes, generally when people mean something else than they say, then they are misunderstood. Of course, his point wasn't either that Kespa > GSL because of Roro beating Seed. His point is that Kespa is only going to better. Much better. And Kespa is already, quite frankly, on GSL level.
How would I explain it? Easy. Creator despite being young, is actually, and unsurprisingly, far more experienced SC2 player than Roro or Sun. I find it funny that you're implying RTS experience os better than SC2 experience in a situation like this
I think Roro was saving his strategies for PL. And he also isn't used to having play two matches in a day.
On August 25 2012 01:37 vthree wrote:
lol, I guess my post went over your head. I am trying to make the point that you can't base everything off 1 series. I am happy players are doing well. But GSL champ losing to Kespa doesn't mean Kespa > ESF Players or vice versa. I am just trying to show you can make 'facts' very biased. Goody beat MMA.... Naniwa beat Nestea and Mvp back to back (they had 6 GSLs between them at that point)... How else would you explain a 15 year old (Creator) pwning seasoned RTS pros like Rain and Roro who were the best Kespa could offer?
Btw, I think Seed was jetlagged and saving his builds for WCS Asia and WCS Global.
On August 25 2012 01:33 Squeegy wrote:
But the guy who won Code S last season lost to an elephant. I guess even the best player in Code S is not good enough.
On August 25 2012 01:23 vthree wrote:
So the best Elephants got beat by a 15 year old who lost in Ro32 in Code S last season? WTF? I thought Kespa players were supposed to be good? Where is TBLS?
Creator has probably been playing RTS for like 2-3 year? Yet kespa pros who practiced for 14 hours per day for 5-6 years are LOSING?
On August 24 2012 21:49 letian wrote:
Kespa transitioning to SC2 full time shall make a lot of players return to school, lol
Kespa transitioning to SC2 full time shall make a lot of players return to school, lol
So the best Elephants got beat by a 15 year old who lost in Ro32 in Code S last season? WTF? I thought Kespa players were supposed to be good? Where is TBLS?
Creator has probably been playing RTS for like 2-3 year? Yet kespa pros who practiced for 14 hours per day for 5-6 years are LOSING?
But the guy who won Code S last season lost to an elephant. I guess even the best player in Code S is not good enough.
lol, I guess my post went over your head. I am trying to make the point that you can't base everything off 1 series. I am happy players are doing well. But GSL champ losing to Kespa doesn't mean Kespa > ESF Players or vice versa. I am just trying to show you can make 'facts' very biased. Goody beat MMA.... Naniwa beat Nestea and Mvp back to back (they had 6 GSLs between them at that point)... How else would you explain a 15 year old (Creator) pwning seasoned RTS pros like Rain and Roro who were the best Kespa could offer?
Btw, I think Seed was jetlagged and saving his builds for WCS Asia and WCS Global.
Yes, generally when people mean something else than they say, then they are misunderstood. Of course, his point wasn't either that Kespa > GSL because of Roro beating Seed. His point is that Kespa is only going to better. Much better. And Kespa is already, quite frankly, on GSL level.
How would I explain it? Easy. Creator despite being young, is actually, and unsurprisingly, far more experienced SC2 player than Roro or Sun. I find it funny that you're implying RTS experience os better than SC2 experience in a situation like this
I think Roro was saving his strategies for PL. And he also isn't used to having play two matches in a day.
sarcasm...
Since M18M beat Flash in PL last season, it was obvious that B-teamers were catching up to TBLS. TBLS is lucky they transition to SC2 or they would have to wash dishes.
How is Kespa on GSL level when only Reality made it through the qualifiers? You can say the top Kespa players (the fast adapting ones) are Code A/S level. But overall, I think ESF players are stronger than Kespa. Of course, with time, they will catch up.
Your analogy is unfortunately flawed. M18M beating Flash is indeed a single instance. Kespa beating individual players is not a single instance in the same sense. Sure, Seed lost a single bo3, but GSL lost bo3s consistently.
When the qualifiers were held, Kespa had two months less experience. They have only a few months worth of experience now, two months later. GSL was better during the qualifiers, unfortunately, same does not apply now. Which you of course know but for some reason chose to present this as a point anyway. They have pretty much caught up already.
Guess we will see in OSL.
Don't worry he still doesn't understand that every win happened in the losers bracket.
Yes, the win over the reigning GSL champion, 2-0 by the way, also happened in the losers bracket. Just to put things into context.
And then a loss to Creator who also commented on the nerves involved. Don't read too much into this. Roro performed quite well and that can be left at that. You don't hype up any player or players from the results of one tournament or one week. This has been proven again and again. Just watch and enjoy as you will.
