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On July 29 2012 17:30 SiroKO wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2012 17:20 Squeegy wrote:On July 29 2012 15:10 Tchado wrote:On July 29 2012 15:03 0neder wrote:On July 29 2012 15:00 Tchado wrote:On July 29 2012 14:59 Xkalibert wrote:
Easy wins for non-Kespa players, Kespa players need more time. agreed , the elephant is soooooo dead...... So when former Kespa players who switched a year or two ago beat current Kespa players who just barely switched, the elephant is dead? I don't think so. the elephant assumed that any kespa player who is of high level , once he switches to sc2 he will dominate immediately ..... does this look like immediate domination ? the elephant is dead. Not immediately. The article spoke of something around a month. Why? Because back then people just popped out of nowhere and dominated. The level of play was much lower than it is now. That is why the elephant "theory" did not claim that Kespa players could pull it off in the future. Now that the skill level is significantly higher, it will take them longer. However, we are already seeing them becoming competetive, and that is after only a couple of months, when they aren't even fully dedicated to the game. The elephant is alive and well. It's already been glaringly obvious that the best BW players, Kespa and non-Kespa, weren't becoming the best SC2 players. This has hold true for War3 as well, Stephano was a semi-pro back then. Since this premisse was one of the elephant paradigm (ie "bw code A" and particulary flash jaedong bisu dominating the scene right when they switch since most GSL players weren't code A), we can consider the elephant thread entirely irrelevant.
I have to say I don't really have any idea what you are saying there.
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Are there VODs? OGN's TwitchTV account?
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Monster the only Zerg, wow.
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Oh hey, not bad! Kespa players didn't get completely destroyed.
Glad to see Jangbi advancing keke. That's pretty crazy though, considering that he is probably practicing for OSL as well...dang. What a beast 
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Does anybody have any more information about Aug 1st? Apparently, there are supposed to finish the non-kespa preliminaries and also do the last 5 bo3s to determine the rest of the top 16. Is that right? Seems like quite a lot considering that they are supposed to do two long things in one day (preliminaries and playoffs for to 16).
Is any of this supposed to be broadcast?
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i would argue taeja is the best terran atm. damn soulkey getting a bad draw. still it was a good game.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On July 29 2012 18:34 OnFiRe888 wrote:
Does anybody have any more information about Aug 1st? Apparently, there are supposed to finish the non-kespa preliminaries and also do the last 5 bo3s to determine the rest of the top 16. Is that right? Seems like quite a lot considering that they are supposed to do two long things in one day (preliminaries and playoffs for to 16).
Is any of this supposed to be broadcast?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=356645
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On July 29 2012 17:30 SiroKO wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2012 17:20 Squeegy wrote:On July 29 2012 15:10 Tchado wrote:On July 29 2012 15:03 0neder wrote:On July 29 2012 15:00 Tchado wrote:On July 29 2012 14:59 Xkalibert wrote:
Easy wins for non-Kespa players, Kespa players need more time. agreed , the elephant is soooooo dead...... So when former Kespa players who switched a year or two ago beat current Kespa players who just barely switched, the elephant is dead? I don't think so. the elephant assumed that any kespa player who is of high level , once he switches to sc2 he will dominate immediately ..... does this look like immediate domination ? the elephant is dead. Not immediately. The article spoke of something around a month. Why? Because back then people just popped out of nowhere and dominated. The level of play was much lower than it is now. That is why the elephant "theory" did not claim that Kespa players could pull it off in the future. Now that the skill level is significantly higher, it will take them longer. However, we are already seeing them becoming competetive, and that is after only a couple of months, when they aren't even fully dedicated to the game. The elephant is alive and well. It's already been glaringly obvious that the best BW players, Kespa and non-Kespa, weren't becoming the best SC2 players. This has hold true for War3 as well, Stephano was a semi-pro back then. Since this premisse was one of the elephant paradigm (ie "bw code A" and particulary flash jaedong bisu dominating the scene right when they switch since most GSL players weren't code A), we can consider the elephant thread entirely irrelevant.
The only bw player that switched over during/just before his prime until recently was this up and comer that goes by Mvp, maybe you've heard of him, I hear he's won a tourny or two...
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On July 29 2012 18:27 Aeceus wrote:
Monster the only Zerg, wow.
Considering other than DRG none of the strong Zergs played yet not really a suprise.
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MVP's protosses dropping the ball...
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WOOO fuck yeah Afrotoss and Baby!
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On July 29 2012 17:57 Squeegy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2012 17:30 SiroKO wrote:On July 29 2012 17:20 Squeegy wrote:On July 29 2012 15:10 Tchado wrote:On July 29 2012 15:03 0neder wrote:On July 29 2012 15:00 Tchado wrote:On July 29 2012 14:59 Xkalibert wrote:
Easy wins for non-Kespa players, Kespa players need more time. agreed , the elephant is soooooo dead...... So when former Kespa players who switched a year or two ago beat current Kespa players who just barely switched, the elephant is dead? I don't think so. the elephant assumed that any kespa player who is of high level , once he switches to sc2 he will dominate immediately ..... does this look like immediate domination ? the elephant is dead. Not immediately. The article spoke of something around a month. Why? Because back then people just popped out of nowhere and dominated. The level of play was much lower than it is now. That is why the elephant "theory" did not claim that Kespa players could pull it off in the future. Now that the skill level is significantly higher, it will take them longer. However, we are already seeing them becoming competetive, and that is after only a couple of months, when they aren't even fully dedicated to the game. The elephant is alive and well. It's already been glaringly obvious that the best BW players, Kespa and non-Kespa, weren't becoming the best SC2 players. This has hold true for War3 as well, Stephano was a semi-pro back then. Since this premisse was one of the elephant paradigm (ie "bw code A" and particulary flash jaedong bisu dominating the scene right when they switch since most GSL players weren't code A), we can consider the elephant thread entirely irrelevant. I have to say I don't really have any idea what you are saying there.
What he's saying is that BW players can become the best at SC2, but it's not necessarily going to be the best BW players who will be best at SC2 - the Elephant article says that people like Flash/Bisu/Fanta will dominate immediately (or close to immediately) - instead, we're seeing some very strong play from KeSPA players, but not the ones you'd expect (eg. Reality).
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Nice one Jangbi
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What he's saying is that BW players can become the best at SC2, but it's not necessarily going to be the best BW players who will be best at SC2 - the Elephant article says that people like Flash/Bisu/Fanta will dominate immediately (or close to immediately) - instead, we're seeing some very strong play from KeSPA players, but not the ones you'd expect (eg. Reality).
Can you point out where it says they will dominate to immediately or close to immediately? The only reference I can find is a quote that references something Jinro said "Our own Jinro states that if Flash could be persuaded to switch to SC2, he "could probably take games from anyone within a week, for TvT at least.” "
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On July 29 2012 23:00 Ragnar1 wrote:Show nested quote +
What he's saying is that BW players can become the best at SC2, but it's not necessarily going to be the best BW players who will be best at SC2 - the Elephant article says that people like Flash/Bisu/Fanta will dominate immediately (or close to immediately) - instead, we're seeing some very strong play from KeSPA players, but not the ones you'd expect (eg. Reality).
Can you point out where it says they will dominate to immediately or close to immediately? The only reference I can find is a quote that references something Jinro said "Our own Jinro states that if Flash could be persuaded to switch to SC2, he "could probably take games from anyone within a week, for TvT at least.” "
Hot_Bid's quote?
It doesn't say it explicitly but the article seems to imply, as evidenced by Hot_Bid's reaction to the comments, that top level BW pros will come and dominate the scene pretty quickly because of their work ethic and mechanics. It is also understood as such by most who discuss the article.
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On July 29 2012 17:30 SiroKO wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2012 17:20 Squeegy wrote:On July 29 2012 15:10 Tchado wrote:On July 29 2012 15:03 0neder wrote:On July 29 2012 15:00 Tchado wrote:On July 29 2012 14:59 Xkalibert wrote:
Easy wins for non-Kespa players, Kespa players need more time. agreed , the elephant is soooooo dead...... So when former Kespa players who switched a year or two ago beat current Kespa players who just barely switched, the elephant is dead? I don't think so. the elephant assumed that any kespa player who is of high level , once he switches to sc2 he will dominate immediately ..... does this look like immediate domination ? the elephant is dead. Not immediately. The article spoke of something around a month. Why? Because back then people just popped out of nowhere and dominated. The level of play was much lower than it is now. That is why the elephant "theory" did not claim that Kespa players could pull it off in the future. Now that the skill level is significantly higher, it will take them longer. However, we are already seeing them becoming competetive, and that is after only a couple of months, when they aren't even fully dedicated to the game. The elephant is alive and well. It's already been glaringly obvious that the best BW players, Kespa and non-Kespa, weren't becoming the best SC2 players. This has hold true for War3 as well, Stephano was a semi-pro back then. Since this premisse was one of the elephant paradigm (ie "bw code A" and particulary flash jaedong bisu dominating the scene right when they switch since most GSL players weren't code A), we can consider the elephant thread entirely irrelevant.
What?
1)Allmost every the top Korean s2 players were former BW pro's
2) The article about the elephant never said the second they switched they would pwn.
3) The fact that 3-4 months in while still having to practice BW Kespa pro's are already taking b03 series off code A level players(Some Code S level players too)is fucking incredible
So in short you're pretty much wrong on every single level. The Elephants are marching along just fine 
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On July 30 2012 00:03 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2012 23:00 Ragnar1 wrote:
What he's saying is that BW players can become the best at SC2, but it's not necessarily going to be the best BW players who will be best at SC2 - the Elephant article says that people like Flash/Bisu/Fanta will dominate immediately (or close to immediately) - instead, we're seeing some very strong play from KeSPA players, but not the ones you'd expect (eg. Reality).
Can you point out where it says they will dominate to immediately or close to immediately? The only reference I can find is a quote that references something Jinro said "Our own Jinro states that if Flash could be persuaded to switch to SC2, he "could probably take games from anyone within a week, for TvT at least.” " Hot_Bid's quote? It doesn't say it explicitly but the article seems to imply, as evidenced by Hot_Bid's reaction to the comments, that top level BW pros will come and dominate the scene pretty quickly because of their work ethic and mechanics. It is also understood as such by most who discuss the article.
The article was written when SC2 was less figured out, Korean SC2 progamers still had foreigner-like training methods (they were opposed to BW-like trainingschedules), and assuming KeSPA progamers made a clear-cut transition to SC2 at that time.
It's impossible to determine whether the author was right since a vast number of SC2 progamers has adopted BW training methods and KeSPA players' transition has been dragging for months with their practice divided between BW and SC2.
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On July 30 2012 00:22 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 00:03 FairForever wrote:On July 29 2012 23:00 Ragnar1 wrote:
What he's saying is that BW players can become the best at SC2, but it's not necessarily going to be the best BW players who will be best at SC2 - the Elephant article says that people like Flash/Bisu/Fanta will dominate immediately (or close to immediately) - instead, we're seeing some very strong play from KeSPA players, but not the ones you'd expect (eg. Reality).
Can you point out where it says they will dominate to immediately or close to immediately? The only reference I can find is a quote that references something Jinro said "Our own Jinro states that if Flash could be persuaded to switch to SC2, he "could probably take games from anyone within a week, for TvT at least.” " Hot_Bid's quote? It doesn't say it explicitly but the article seems to imply, as evidenced by Hot_Bid's reaction to the comments, that top level BW pros will come and dominate the scene pretty quickly because of their work ethic and mechanics. It is also understood as such by most who discuss the article. The article was written when SC2 was less figured out, Korean SC2 progamers still had foreigner-like training methods (they were opposed to BW-like trainingschedules), and assuming KeSPA progamers made a clear-cut transition to SC2 at that time. It's impossible to determine whether the author was right since a vast number of SC2 progamers has adopted BW training methods and KeSPA players' transition has been dragging for months with their practice divided between BW and SC2.
I don't think it is impossible to determine.
We saw people pop into the scene from almost nowhere and do well at the time. We saw nobodies become kings. We saw atrocious play even at the highest level.
But what was the point of the article? It sure wasn't that Flash could dominate in a month after he switches. That was an implication of the point (at the time). The point was that the scene was missing its brightest stars and therefore the competition was a farce (at the time).
If Kespa players end up dominating, even if it takes a year or two, what do you think that tells us about the time before their arrival?
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On July 30 2012 00:17 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2012 17:30 SiroKO wrote:On July 29 2012 17:20 Squeegy wrote:On July 29 2012 15:10 Tchado wrote:On July 29 2012 15:03 0neder wrote:On July 29 2012 15:00 Tchado wrote:On July 29 2012 14:59 Xkalibert wrote:
Easy wins for non-Kespa players, Kespa players need more time. agreed , the elephant is soooooo dead...... So when former Kespa players who switched a year or two ago beat current Kespa players who just barely switched, the elephant is dead? I don't think so. the elephant assumed that any kespa player who is of high level , once he switches to sc2 he will dominate immediately ..... does this look like immediate domination ? the elephant is dead. Not immediately. The article spoke of something around a month. Why? Because back then people just popped out of nowhere and dominated. The level of play was much lower than it is now. That is why the elephant "theory" did not claim that Kespa players could pull it off in the future. Now that the skill level is significantly higher, it will take them longer. However, we are already seeing them becoming competetive, and that is after only a couple of months, when they aren't even fully dedicated to the game. The elephant is alive and well. It's already been glaringly obvious that the best BW players, Kespa and non-Kespa, weren't becoming the best SC2 players. This has hold true for War3 as well, Stephano was a semi-pro back then. Since this premisse was one of the elephant paradigm (ie "bw code A" and particulary flash jaedong bisu dominating the scene right when they switch since most GSL players weren't code A), we can consider the elephant thread entirely irrelevant. What? 1)Allmost every the top Korean s2 players were former BW pro's 2) The article about the elephant never said the second they switched they would pwn. 3) The fact that 3-4 months in while still having to practice BW Kespa pro's are already taking b03 series off code A level players(Some Code S level players too)is fucking incredible So in short you're pretty much wrong on every single level. The Elephants are marching along just fine
not really, the younger players that didn't really play bw are rolling most of the players in general in sc2 as they have quicker hands and the better thinking hat, alot of the older kespa players will just drop off, few of the younger bw pro's will do well.#
also domination will never happen in sc2 because their is always a new strat that will knock x dominant player out.
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EPT
