On July 27 2012 21:12 Sakray wrote: Worst final after the InCa/Nestea disaster. Seed will get crushed in the next season, while MC is gonna reach ro8 or ro4 again, like the fucking TRUE champion he is.
Srsly, just look at Seed, he won the biggest sc2 tournament and...no freaking emotions ? Are you kidding me ? I'm disappointed. Hugely disappointed, MC should have won.
Thx blizzard for making pvp so coinflip, retard and all-in all day, bg to Seed for abusing this.
couldn't have said it better tbh, I feel that Seed will be a player that will eventually dissapear once his all ins stop working.
2 trolls who did not watch Seeds games this season and last season.
I watch every gsl game, I didn't pay for the annual pass for no reason
Sure, then you should know he's been part of the scene since his appearance in GSTL. Oh wait, you didn't. Wait, why am I replying to a troll??
Been part of the scene, but never made an impact on it, he's not champion caliber, finals would have been much better with Byun vs MC...
On July 27 2012 21:19 Bam Lee wrote: the problem with pvp lategame is that fights can be so one-sided that its instantly over because you cant recover from hvaing 5 colossus less than your opponent(for example).
except MC had more collosus and seed recovered and beat him by out positioning and out microing him
On July 27 2012 21:00 ElephantBaby wrote: Not even one single game recommended, TL loves MC too much.
yeah those finals were some of the best, why must fanboys ruin it
I can guarantee you that fanboyism has almost nothing to do with the recommendations for this series.
How can you guarantee that?
Because it was two warp prism fourgates, a blink stalker all-in, a 3 gate hidden probe in base, and colossus wars? People going absolutely insane over Seed taking about 5 minerals and gas from MC's base doesn't make it good.
The first few games was typical PvP. But why complained about colossus wars? Seed actually won that with less Colossus... Granted, he did get a big advantage due to BOs but it happens in ZvZ and other matches up as well...
People below high masters just don't come close to understanding how PvP works.
It has nothing to do with understanding the match up.
I understand the match up fine, and as a player I can appreciate the subtle things going on underneath the collosus count and maneuvering.
But as a spectator, late game PvP is a lot of back and forth waiting for action to happen leading up to a single battle that's over in moments, while not being able to see anything other than bright lasers from both sides.
In general, mirrors suck when both sides are just massing the same unit. It's why most people don't like watching roach war ZvZ, or marine vs marine TvT or mech vs mech TvT.
Late game PvP is nothing BUT Collosus vs Collosus there really isn't an alternative unit composition you can make.
In all the other mirrors there is.
I am not sure. If you watch any late/mid game ZvZ lately, I think it is moving towards infestors wars... At least in Colossi wars, you have some zealots, archons to tank. In ZvZ, you don't need anything else because you have infested terrans to tank/dps and fungals.
On July 27 2012 21:05 YoungTyTy wrote: I still feel like even the Marineking vs MVP finals where MKP got 4-0ed was worse than this one. MKP made so many mistakes, the games weren't even close and he just played badly.
yeah, we had 5 TvT finals. And none of it was epic. Even more so, apart from MVP 4-2 MKP in the World Championship, everything else was a onesided stomp. But if MMA beats MVP in TvT 4-1 when MVP is said to be unbeatable in this MU, it's "MVP didn't have a good day". If Seed stomps MC 4-1 in PvP it's "oh my god, PvP is sooo bad and random".
There haven't been a lot of good finals yet, no matter the Matchup. Seed vs MC just continues that story.
The difference there is TvT is a far more stable matchup, the PvP series we all just witnesses was truly hectic and, honestly, sort of random.
It all ties back to the way the races were designed. Terran has so many versatile, safe openings, so TvT actually is a really good matchup. When the Protoss race is designed around warpgate and Colossus, of course PvP is going to end up being Gateway all ins and mass Colossus late game.
Not to mention that Terran has that ultimate safe unit in the Siege Tank, lol. Makes things more drawn out, lets people make comebacks more easily, and such.
As boring as GomTvT was, at least... actually I still just hate GomTvT, but uhh... where was I going with this train of thought?
Protoss need defender's advantage. Somethin' about that.
On July 27 2012 21:00 ElephantBaby wrote: Not even one single game recommended, TL loves MC too much.
yeah those finals were some of the best, why must fanboys ruin it
I can guarantee you that fanboyism has almost nothing to do with the recommendations for this series.
How can you guarantee that?
Because it was two warp prism fourgates, a blink stalker all-in, a 3 gate hidden probe in base, and colossus wars? People going absolutely insane over Seed taking about 5 minerals and gas from MC's base doesn't make it good.
The first few games was typical PvP. But why complained about colossus wars? Seed actually won that with less Colossus... Granted, he did get a big advantage due to BOs but it happens in ZvZ and other matches up as well...
People below high masters just don't come close to understanding how PvP works.
It has nothing to do with understanding the match up.
I understand the match up fine, and as a player I can appreciate the subtle things going on underneath the collosus count and maneuvering.
But as a spectator, late game PvP is a lot of back and forth waiting for action to happen leading up to a single battle that's over in moments, while not being able to see anything other than bright lasers from both sides.
In general, mirrors suck when both sides are just massing the same unit. It's why most people don't like watching roach war ZvZ, or marine vs marine TvT or mech vs mech TvT.
Late game PvP is nothing BUT Collosus vs Collosus there really isn't an alternative unit composition you can make.
In all the other mirrors there is.
I am not sure. If you watch any late/mid game ZvZ lately, I think it is moving towards infestors wars... At least in Colossi wars, you have some zealots, archons to tank. In ZvZ, you don't need anything else because you have infested terrans to tank/dps and fungals.
I agree that Infestor vs Infestor ZvZ sucks to watch, but as good as Infestors are they'll never dominate the late game of a match up the way Collosus do for PvP, simply because once hive tech units hit the field Infestors lose a lot of their luster.
The only single unit with more far reaching impact on a single match up's late game is the Siege Tank for Terran. but the Siege Tank has a lot of things going for it that make it just more fun from a spectator's perspective.
Stop calling seed emotionless really. He is just somebody who could barely believe that he just won. Not everybody has to get naked and do some strange dance to please all of you. That has nothing to do with somebody being emotionless
On July 27 2012 21:05 YoungTyTy wrote: I still feel like even the Marineking vs MVP finals where MKP got 4-0ed was worse than this one. MKP made so many mistakes, the games weren't even close and he just played badly.
yeah, we had 5 TvT finals. And none of it was epic. Even more so, apart from MVP 4-2 MKP in the World Championship, everything else was a onesided stomp. But if MMA beats MVP in TvT 4-1 when MVP is said to be unbeatable in this MU, it's "MVP didn't have a good day". If Seed stomps MC 4-1 in PvP it's "oh my god, PvP is sooo bad and random".
There haven't been a lot of good finals yet, no matter the Matchup. Seed vs MC just continues that story.
The difference there is TvT is a far more stable matchup, the PvP series we all just witnesses was truly hectic and, honestly, sort of random.
It all ties back to the way the races were designed. Terran has so many versatile, safe openings, so TvT actually is a really good matchup. When the Protoss race is designed around warpgate and Colossus, of course PvP is going to end up being Gateway all ins and mass Colossus late game.
Not to mention that Terran has that ultimate safe unit in the Siege Tank, lol. Makes things more drawn out, lets people make comebacks more easily, and such.
As boring as GomTvT was, at least... actually I still just hate GomTvT, but uhh... where was I going with this train of thought?
Protoss need defender's advantage. Somethin' about that.
On July 27 2012 21:12 Sakray wrote: Worst final after the InCa/Nestea disaster. Seed will get crushed in the next season, while MC is gonna reach ro8 or ro4 again, like the fucking TRUE champion he is.
Srsly, just look at Seed, he won the biggest sc2 tournament and...no freaking emotions ? Are you kidding me ? I'm disappointed. Hugely disappointed, MC should have won.
Thx blizzard for making pvp so coinflip, retard and all-in all day, bg to Seed for abusing this.
couldn't have said it better tbh, I feel that Seed will be a player that will eventually dissapear once his all ins stop working.
2 trolls who did not watch Seeds games this season and last season.
I watch every gsl game, I didn't pay for the annual pass for no reason
Sure, then you should know he's been part of the scene since his appearance in GSTL. Oh wait, you didn't. Wait, why am I replying to a troll??
Been part of the scene, but never made an impact on it, he's not champion caliber, finals would have been much better with Byun vs MC...
Then maybe Byun shouldn't have lost. Seed deserved his wins against Symbol, Byun and now MC. How can you say he isn't a championship caliber player when he just took the championship? Especially having beaten such strong players to get there.
On July 27 2012 21:23 Bam Lee wrote: Stop calling seed emotionless really. He is just somebody who could barely believe that he just won. Not everybody has to get naked and do some strange dance to please all of you. That has nothing to do with somebody being emotionless
On July 27 2012 21:12 Sakray wrote: Worst final after the InCa/Nestea disaster. Seed will get crushed in the next season, while MC is gonna reach ro8 or ro4 again, like the fucking TRUE champion he is.
Srsly, just look at Seed, he won the biggest sc2 tournament and...no freaking emotions ? Are you kidding me ? I'm disappointed. Hugely disappointed, MC should have won.
Thx blizzard for making pvp so coinflip, retard and all-in all day, bg to Seed for abusing this.
couldn't have said it better tbh, I feel that Seed will be a player that will eventually dissapear once his all ins stop working.
2 trolls who did not watch Seeds games this season and last season.
I watch every gsl game, I didn't pay for the annual pass for no reason
Sure, then you should know he's been part of the scene since his appearance in GSTL. Oh wait, you didn't. Wait, why am I replying to a troll??
Been part of the scene, but never made an impact on it, he's not champion caliber, finals would have been much better with Byun vs MC...
And Byun's impact on the scene has been? Byun, Symbol, Seed were all up and comers with champion potential...
On July 27 2012 21:19 Bam Lee wrote: the problem with pvp lategame is that fights can be so one-sided that its instantly over because you cant recover from hvaing 5 colossus less than your opponent(for example).
except MC had more collosus and seed recovered and beat him by out positioning and out microing him
Yeah... having those two colossi derping in the mineral line as seed focus fired all of MCs other Colossi was kind of... really bad
On July 27 2012 21:12 Sakray wrote: Worst final after the InCa/Nestea disaster. Seed will get crushed in the next season, while MC is gonna reach ro8 or ro4 again, like the fucking TRUE champion he is.
Srsly, just look at Seed, he won the biggest sc2 tournament and...no freaking emotions ? Are you kidding me ? I'm disappointed. Hugely disappointed, MC should have won.
Thx blizzard for making pvp so coinflip, retard and all-in all day, bg to Seed for abusing this.
couldn't have said it better tbh, I feel that Seed will be a player that will eventually dissapear once his all ins stop working.
2 trolls who did not watch Seeds games this season and last season.
I'd bet on the guy agreeing with himself, there can't possibly be 2 people this idiotic.
On July 27 2012 21:23 Bam Lee wrote: Stop calling seed emotionless really. He is just somebody who could barely believe that he just won. Not everybody has to get naked and do some strange dance to please all of you. That has nothing to do with somebody being emotionless
Seriously, too many people equate showing emotion to doing something flamboyant or outrageous.
On July 27 2012 21:19 Bam Lee wrote: the problem with pvp lategame is that fights can be so one-sided that its instantly over because you cant recover from hvaing 5 colossus less than your opponent(for example).
except MC had more collosus and seed recovered and beat him by out positioning and out microing him
I also think Seed had an upgrade advantage. I think that's why he moved out when he did. MC got his Twilight Council really late, so Seed had to have been ahead in upgrades. I think it was +2 for Seed and +1 for MC.
On July 27 2012 21:19 Bam Lee wrote: the problem with pvp lategame is that fights can be so one-sided that its instantly over because you cant recover from hvaing 5 colossus less than your opponent(for example).
except MC had more collosus and seed recovered and beat him by out positioning and out microing him
What were the upgrades? MC had more Collosi after the initial attack, but seems like he didn't reinforce as well as Seed.
On July 27 2012 21:23 Bam Lee wrote: Stop calling seed emotionless really. He is just somebody who could barely believe that he just won. Not everybody has to get naked and do some strange dance to please all of you. That has nothing to do with somebody being emotionless
Hey some of us like strange nude dancing. ;-D
i for my part dont like to see nude men dancing....We can talk about that again when women start competing in gsl :D
On July 27 2012 21:19 Bam Lee wrote: the problem with pvp lategame is that fights can be so one-sided that its instantly over because you cant recover from hvaing 5 colossus less than your opponent(for example).
except MC had more collosus and seed recovered and beat him by out positioning and out microing him
Seed began the game with a build order advantage (recovered from what? lol). MC engaged poorly and had inferior positioning. It doesn't change the fact that having less colossus past 3 is usually almost always a loss at even supplies.
Anyone notice how eerily similar this series is to MC against Genius last season? MC's opponent starts by faking 2 gas then 4 gating. MC loses games pretty easily and the series ends with a long macro game where MC gets crushed by colossi deathball on Cloud Kingdom.
EPT
