On July 03 2012 09:24 MasterKang wrote:
[quote]

ofc it does but at the same time, would the zergling/baneling flanks/surrounds have been ineffective if the buff wasn't implemented? no ofc not, mkp's army would still have been demolished

I think the point was, that situation would not have arisen if the game played out under a prior patch because the patch affects everything that happens after the pool is built.

a situation where the zerg has zerglings, banelings, and infestors aginst terran's marines/medivacs/tanks pretty much comes up in 99% of TvZ's.. regardless of the queen buff, coca's decision to surround and flank with banelings would have won him the battle

zerg would have had less, and they would be less well-upgraded

you realize that i am talking about the flank that coca made on entombed right? that game had progressed to the point where the only effect the buff would have on the game is the creep spread. That being said, in this specific game, the creep spread would have been the same, maybe a tiny bit worse, because MKP did not make helions that game to stop the creep (the aspect of creep-stopping strategy that was affected most by the buff). Therefore, the buff had little effect on coca's flank and he would've demolished that army regardless, so plz stop completely blaming stuff on the buff

No, we're saying people should stop going "His Queen didn't even attack that game so the buff wouldn't have mattered!!". We're saying every change, especially one that is for early game, has a snowball or metagame effect.

For example, imagine they buffed Vikings to be overpowered (something like 1 supply, builds twice as fast, etc). In PvT, the protoss would therefore never make Colossus, and the Terran would therefore never make Vikings to counter that, and instead go straight to ghost and be 100% prepared to counter Templar tech because that is the only thing left the P can do. So even if the T didn't make a single viking, that doesn't mean the viking buff didn't affect the match at all.

how can you possible compare buffing the queen range by 2 with making vikings 1 supply and building twice as fast... The consequences of those two changes are COMPLETELY different b/c the extent of those changes aren't even close. I'm not arguing the game would have gone THE SAME EXACT WAY. I'm saying that Coca's decision to surround with banes was what allowed him to connect with mkp's marines, and his decision to surround with banes is not something affected by the queen buff.

Oh hey my queens have more range, i want to flank from behind with banelings now. No of course not. Creep spread and upgrades are slightly affected by the buff, but like I said if you consider the point in time that flank took place and the way the metagame has shifted based on the buff, there wouldn't have been big enough of a difference that would allow MKP to somehow completely thwart the bane flank..

But what he is arguing is that MarineKing would have a wider array of things that he could do without the Queen change and even in MarineKing did the same thing CoCa would still have to account for all those other things, however by limiting MarineKing's options, CoCa has less to worry about. Obviously his example was an exaggeration, but it gets the point across.

And CoCa's "decision to surround with banelings" is not a decision. I mean I guess he could have decided to dance command his units, but you are really exaggerating how much of a "decision" CoCa made.

deliberately sending your banelings behind the enemy army and then coordinating them with the rest of your army is not a decision? wow I didn't know we lived in that kind of a world

it's not that rare a move to see, wouldn't put it past many top zergs to do something like that. great move, still, though.

"great move, still, though." "that's all I wanted to hear :D"

oogieogie

United States3657 Posts

July 03 2012 01:07 GMT

#351

On July 03 2012 10:05 zezamer wrote:

Show nested quote +

Everybody skips the "scouting lings" nowadays

i got queens man..who needs a scout

gengka

Malaysia461 Posts

July 03 2012 01:08 GMT

#352

shall we concentrate more on the game pls?

the zergs: Yes yes we know you will never admit that the patch had made your race the best race at the moment, so just enjoy your golden era and remember to cheer louder for DRG when he rapes everyone and clinch another GSL title

the terrans: Stop complaining unless you are david kim's mother who could make him listen to you. Blizzard only listen to stats but not complaints. save your breath, improve your game, wait for the pros to find a solution. be a man

the protoss: i pity you when your only solution to P v Z lategame, the mothership, is always neural parasited, and blizzard doesnt even know about it LOL. however i salute you for complaining less than the terrans. You are the man (well at least u guys have P v T lategame to enjoy about)

Come on guys we still have Code A to catch later

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