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On April 28 2012 11:46 Benjamin99 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 09:58 jianming wrote:On April 28 2012 09:37 1Eris1 wrote:On April 28 2012 09:19 Otolia wrote:Good, let me bring some more infos. We can't take GSL into account because it's a preparation based league where Stephano didn't play yet. Results are very dependent from coaching and build orders so we have to measure things in an equal field. HSC was more of a party for most foreigners. And even though we consider it premier in LP, it's only due to the innovation and the entertainment value. Still I included it. International Stats for MC in 2012: 2-0 TheStC, 1-2 PartinG, 0-2 GanZi, 3-0 viOlet, 3-2 PuMa, 0-2 MKP, 1-2 GanZi, 2-1 crazymovING, 2-1 Polt, 2-0 Symbol, 2-0 MVP, 2-0 PuMa, 0-2 Polt, 1-2 Squirtle, 0-2 Creator, 2-3 aLive, 3-0 DRG, 1-2 Heart, 0-3 GanZi, 1-2 viOlet, 2-1 MKP, 2-1 PartinG, 1-3 DRG Total : 31 - 33 HSC IV : 0-2 MKP, 3-2 JYP, 4-0 Sound -> 7-4 International Stats for Stephano in 2012 : 3-2 Polt, 3-2 viOlet, 2-0 HyuN, 3-0 PuMa, 1-4 Polt, 2-0 Zenio, 0-2 Polt, 5-2 Polt, 1-2 Polt, 1-2 Inori, 1-2 Life, 1-2 MKP, 2-1 JYP, 2-1 Curious, 1-2 NesTea, 0-2 MMA Total : 28 - 26 HSC : 0-2 Sound, 0-2 MKP, 0-2 MC And I'm not even removing online games which are different from offline ones (though I guess it would work in MC's favor) Conclusion : Results are very similar. You cannot based your conclusion on that unless you want to win an internet argument. Without HSC, Stephano has a winning record and MC a losing one, with it it's reversed. Is this some kind of joke? I linked the 2012 games for you and you managed to miscount them, jesus christ. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sc2-international&type=players&id=640&part=games&league=standardMC's vs Koreans in foreign tournaments: + Show Spoiler +1-3 vs DRG
2-1 vs Parting
2-1 vs MKP
1-2 Violet
0-3 vs Ganzi
1-2 vs Heart
3-0 vs DRG
2-3 vs Alive
0-2 vs Creator
1-2 vs Squirtle
0-2 vs Polt
2-0 vs Puma
2-0 vs MVP
2-0 vs Symbol
2-1 vs Polt
2-1 vs CrazyMoving
1-2 vs Ganzi
0-2 vs MKP
3-2 vs Puma
3-0 vs Violet
0-2 vs Ganzi
1-2 vs Parting
2-0 vs theSTC
4-0 vs Sound
3-2 vs JYP
0-2 vs MKP 40-37. Looks like I was off by a couple here. You were off by 10+. Stephano vs Koreans, 2012, http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sc2-international&type=players&id=1996&part=games&league=standard#tblt-4105-4-1-DESC+ Show Spoiler +0-2 vs MMA
1-2 vs Nestea
2-1 vs Bomber
2-1 vs Curious
2-1 vs JYP
1-2 vs MKP
0-2 vs Jjakji
0-2 vs Life
1-2 vs Inori
1-2 vs Polt
4-2 vs Polt
0-1 vs Alive
0-2 vs Polt
2-0 vs Zenio
1-4 vs Polt
3-0 vs puma
2-0 vs TypeReal (not even sure who this, but he has a Korean flag)
2-0 vs Inori
2-0 vs Hyun
3-2 vs Violet
3-2 vs Polt
0-2 vs MKP
0-2 vs MC (lolol)
0-2 vs Sound 32-36. I accidently counted the Dream games wrong. Where the fuck are you getting 28-26 from? And how the fuck are you not going to count GSL games? What a bullshit excuse. It seems the only way you can make an arguement is by cherrypicking results or falsifying stats. Don't feed the trolls, or argue with mindless fanboys. Fact remains that Stephano has done (basically) nothing against top Koreans, and MC has. Maybe Stephano will start playing them more, and will be able to prove himself, but until he does that, it's impossible to say that Stephano is better than someone like MC (or any other top Korean). Stephano have done nothing against top koreans ? lol watch IPL 4 and thats just his latest tournament. You are a clown and when Stephano beats MC you proberly gonna blame it on lag right? I find it funny you haters never learn And btw 1Eris1 do you get payed to hate Stephano? Becuase in every thread you always there trying to dismiss his amasing achievements. What exactly have Stephano done to you, Did he steal you girlfriend or something? Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 11:33 IMNasty wrote:
foreigner bias much? let me know the last time he beat a code S protoss Hero got slaughtered when he meet Stephano and so did JYP and he only got korea´s 2nd best PvZ And btw one last thing MC himself consider Stephano among the 3 best zergs in the world. http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls2/gomcam/67443Watch it and cry haters
I think i am better than MC. My friends all think so too. Incontrol is probably the best player in the world. Anybody can say anything they want. haha
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On April 28 2012 12:15 Let it Raine wrote:
from the pov of a player it does not matter who he is playing, just the race.
stephano believes he has solved zvp and, outside a few lucky all ins, he doesn't lose.
what can MC do that his past opponents could not?
can't wait to find out.
MC will probably do the same thing he does every time he beats Stephano... whatever that is.
Or maybe something new? Who knows, but it's certain that in the head-to-head, MC > Stephano.
On April 28 2012 12:28 dragonborn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 12:24 chosenkerrigan wrote:On April 28 2012 08:42 dragonborn wrote:
stephano is a better player than MC, but MC is more gimmicky.
i hope stephano find a way for beating MC's gimmicky play. I'm sick and tired of your blind fanboyism. Get out. who the heck are you and saying "get out" to me? you should respect my opinions.
You do realize that opinions don't automatically need to be respected, right? As in, simply by virtue of you saying *something*, it doesn't deserve respect. That *something* has to be meaningful and make sense and the argument has to be properly defended.
And quite frankly, in no way is Stephano better than MC.
Stephano top foreigner? Sure.
But MC has achieved more big wins (especially GSL), made more money, and (most importantly, in this specific context) he's way ahead of Stephano in the head-to-head matches.
Might Stephano win? Possibly. Maybe he's been working on something special that'll work. It certainly hasn't in the past. However, you have no justification to say that Stephano is actually better than MC, or even that he's favored against MC, which is why your opinion won't be respected.
But by all means, root for him! That's what fans do  Many people are fans of Stephano, and many people just like to root for the underdog in general. Go for it! But don't blatantly lie.
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United States594 Posts
Stephano fighting. He's going to roll MC. Gogo Team USA
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Stop all the damn fighting. Me being an MC fan for a pretty long time I would usually say MC is going to win but that's no the case. Just because MC has better accomplishments over Stephano means nothing. Seriously It could go wither due to anything. I would still say that MC wins this one still because PvZ is the only match-up he's consistent in but there could be an upset. There has always been upsets everywhere. I say MC gets this 5-2 but Stephano could take this 5-4.
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You know this is just FC, it's cute and fun, but has no real meaning other than some pocket change. It's just entertainment.
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Awesome:
1) Two high level players playing each other!
Awesomer:
2) The players are both playing in their best matchup and a bo9!!
Awesomerer:
3) The players are huge in the SC scene!!! Who doesn't want to watch Stephano or MC play against anyone? Nevermind each other?
Could be better:
Same server.
Can't wait for the matchup!!!! So excited 
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MC- 5-2.
2 zerg favoured maps.
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The stephano haters and fan boys are both hella annoying, Stephano isn't the best player in the world but he's up there and to deny that is just foolish.
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Given their individual match history, I don't think Stephano will take this one, sorry :/
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On April 28 2012 08:22 jianming wrote:
Ok Stephano fanboys... Please tell me 5 Code S players Stephano has beaten in his career, to justify this "better than 2 time GSL champion and all time money list leader."
He beat Curious in IPL4.
DRG in Blizzard Cup.
Any more?
Did he beat Polt (the Code A guy who only got into Code S because of a seed) when he was in Code S?
Curious, DRG, Bomber, MKP, Polt, JYP, MMA, HuK, Zenio, ViOlet, TheStC, Lucky, BoxeR.
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We want to see if the games were closed or one sided, the reuslt does not matter really matter. It's a good training for Stephano before his flight to Korea at least.
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On April 28 2012 06:35 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 06:25 emis wrote:On April 28 2012 06:20 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 28 2012 06:09 emis wrote:
It's kinda sad seeing people preemptively make excuses about cross-server lag. Koreans have really good internet, top teams shouldn't have a problem playing on foreign servers.
I guess it's another good reason to say "Stephano doesn't legitimately beat Code S players", should he win the showmatch, even though he's proved it wrong on multiple occasions. It's not being used as an excuse for MC theoretically losing in most cases. People, me included, feel that lag ruins the legitimacy of anyone's win because it's just not proper conditions to be playing the game. You could make both players play with their feet if you wanted and sure they'd both have an even playing feel but it wouldn't be a proper game. Just listen to the pundits on SOTG when they talked about TSL4 and they mentioned it as well on the show before that. Cross server games are just bad for everyone, players and spectators regardless of who wins. And you should stop denying that lag exists. I get 250ms connecting to NA from EU and I have good internet and am in western Europe. You can't play the game properly with 250ms. I'm not denying the lag, I just don't think it's game changing. See my edited post. EDIT: And I'm playing on NA from Estonia with a shitty connection. I don't get any lag whatsoever. If you don't think it's gamechanging then you just don't know what you're talking about. Imagine you're trying to split marines against banelings or land crucial forcefields with a small amount of delay. I've seen people like you with your "I just don't think it's a big deal" mentality, and they only stopped arguing once IdrA himself came into the thread and said that cross-server games are meaningless due to the lag. People like to say, "Well, it doesn't affect macro", but, yes, it does - it affects all aspects of someone's play. When you're a pro and you're trying to do everything to near perfection and you're used to playing with really good latency, lag simply throws you off. I'm excited for this match just because of the names, but take the results with a massive grain of salt.
It's not like IdrA is the person to be taken most seriously when it comes to complaining.
Besides, the games are most likely played on NA, which should theoretically be better for MC than for Stephano. Isn't ping directly affected by distance of servers?
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On April 28 2012 15:35 emis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 06:35 HolyArrow wrote:On April 28 2012 06:25 emis wrote:On April 28 2012 06:20 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 28 2012 06:09 emis wrote:
It's kinda sad seeing people preemptively make excuses about cross-server lag. Koreans have really good internet, top teams shouldn't have a problem playing on foreign servers.
I guess it's another good reason to say "Stephano doesn't legitimately beat Code S players", should he win the showmatch, even though he's proved it wrong on multiple occasions. It's not being used as an excuse for MC theoretically losing in most cases. People, me included, feel that lag ruins the legitimacy of anyone's win because it's just not proper conditions to be playing the game. You could make both players play with their feet if you wanted and sure they'd both have an even playing feel but it wouldn't be a proper game. Just listen to the pundits on SOTG when they talked about TSL4 and they mentioned it as well on the show before that. Cross server games are just bad for everyone, players and spectators regardless of who wins. And you should stop denying that lag exists. I get 250ms connecting to NA from EU and I have good internet and am in western Europe. You can't play the game properly with 250ms. I'm not denying the lag, I just don't think it's game changing. See my edited post. EDIT: And I'm playing on NA from Estonia with a shitty connection. I don't get any lag whatsoever. If you don't think it's gamechanging then you just don't know what you're talking about. Imagine you're trying to split marines against banelings or land crucial forcefields with a small amount of delay. I've seen people like you with your "I just don't think it's a big deal" mentality, and they only stopped arguing once IdrA himself came into the thread and said that cross-server games are meaningless due to the lag. People like to say, "Well, it doesn't affect macro", but, yes, it does - it affects all aspects of someone's play. When you're a pro and you're trying to do everything to near perfection and you're used to playing with really good latency, lag simply throws you off. I'm excited for this match just because of the names, but take the results with a massive grain of salt. It's not like IdrA is the person to be taken most seriously when it comes to complaining. Besides, the games are most likely played on NA, which should theoretically be better for MC than for Stephano. Isn't ping directly affected by distance of servers?
Firstly, what you're doing is called a genetic fallacy, I think.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/genetic-fallacy.html
Idra may be known for complaining but he's also a progamer who practices a shitload, who understands the impact high lag has on one's play when one is used to playing in ideal, very low latency setting.
Also, Zerg benefits the most from an environment where both players are laggy because it requires the least micro. This doesn't mean that Zerg is easy - it's just that in terms of macro vs. micro, macro is the most unforgiving and difficult for Zerg out of all the races and thus a ton more emphasis is placed on macro than micro. Zerg micro is definitely important, but I'd argue that it's the least important out of all races while the macro is the most important - you just have to hit those injects. Macro is less affected by lag than micro - thus, Zerg is hurt by lag the least. For example, LosirA said he chose Zerg so he wouldn't have to micro as much, and when Nerchio played Jjakji in IPL Fight Club, Nerchio agreed that laggy environments favor Zerg in ZvT; the same can be said of ZvP due to how important quick and accurate forcefields along with blink micro are.
I don't see why it's so hard to accept that cross-server games should be taken with a massive grain of salt. Why can't people just enjoy matches and realize that they don't mean much since the conditions aren't ideal?
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Can't wait to see MC kicking Steph's ass and shut all the fanboys up lol. What was the last time that Stephano ever beat MC anyway?
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I really love Stephano and play zerg myself, but after MC beat DRG 3-0 (even though he lost later) he will probably take this series from Stephano.
Really close polls, me likes.
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I dont understand why someone gets so much hate just because he things Stephano is able to win?!
You can't always look at statistics and say: this guy'll definitly win!
I've just compared what I saw from those 2 player recently, and my thoughts are that Stephano could win.
Maybe I predicted it correctly or wrong - only the showmatch will give me the answer, not any statistics ;-)
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i just turned the votes from 228-228 to 229-228 favoring Min Chul <3
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I just made it 229-229 because I like even numbers :D
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Holy awesome, this should be amazing to watch. Lets go Stephano!
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On April 28 2012 13:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
But MC has achieved more big wins (especially GSL), made more money, and (most importantly, in this specific context) he's way ahead of Stephano in the head-to-head matches.
And none of those things have any effect whatsoever on the outcome of any of the following matches they play or indeed on how good they are relative to one another currently.
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EPT
