The time has come for our fifteenth IGN Pro League Fight Club! This is a weekly king of the hill showmatch series. Basically, there will be a 1 vs. 1 best of 9 showmatch each and every week, where the winner will earn a $500 prize and a $100 bounty on their head. For example, if a player wins three weeks in a row they will have earned $1,500 and a $300 bounty. If a NEW challenger defeats him, they will earn $500 for the showmatch, take the $300 bounty home, and have a new $100 bounty placed on their head for each week that they win. (Similar to IPL Team Arena, but without the teams!)
When: Sunday, Apr 29 12:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) (we will also have a European re-broadcast as usual at Sunday, Apr 29 4:30pm GMT (GMT+00:00))
MC dethroned Empire.viOLet in the last IPL Fight Club, but now he's coming back to defend his title against one of the top-rated Western players in the world, Millenium.Stephano! Will Stephano have what it takes to destroy the Obama Toss and assert himself once again as capable of taking out Code S winners?
MC < Cloud Kingdom > Stephano MC < Ohana > Stephano MC < Antiga Shipyard > Stephano MC < Atlantis Spaceship > Stephano MC < Daybreak > Stephano MC < Entombed Valley > Stephano MC < Sanshorn Mist AE > Stephano MC < Metropolis > Stephano
Map List
IPLMap Sanshorn Mists AE IPLMap Atlantis Spaceship IPLMap Antiga Shipyard IPLMap Daybreak IPLMap Tal'Darim Altar LE IPLMap Cloud Kingdom IPLMap Metropolis IPLMap Ohana IPLMap Entombed Valley
All the maps can be found on NA, EU, or KR by searching for IPLMap!
The first map will be on a set rotation, and then it is loser's pick.
Casters
This week's games will be commentated by CatsPajamas and Doa!
Stay up to date with IPL4, IPL TV, IPL Fight Club, and IPL Team Arena Challenge by checking our Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, and Twitch.TV!
OMG hype! Annoying that this is played cross server, Korea to EU means playing on NA if I'm not mistaken, which is a shame, but the games should still be great.
Will be an exciting match i'm sure. Both so good at vZ and vP. I'm gonna give it to MC just cause he's MC, but I'll really be routing for Stephano - i hope he can take him down
On April 28 2012 05:05 MCDayC wrote: OMG hype! Annoying that this is played cross server, Korea to EU means playing on NA if I'm not mistaken, which is a shame, but the games should still be great.
Damn, that's too bad. Lag usually benefits the Zerg just because Zerg is more macro than micro. Hopefully it doesn't interfere with MC's immaculate forcefields too much >_<
This is awesome. However, will there be vods available? I work in the restaurant industry and therefore I will miss the live stream and the euro rebroadcast.
Fuck . . . . I want to say MC because his ZvP is just a terror to behold but with cross server lag, and Stephano's bad assness, I could see this going very close.
I say MC 5-3. MC is an absolute beast at PvZ (he's only lost 2 series this entire year) and he's beaten Stephano 2-0 in every series they've played. However, since this is such a longer match with a lot of lag probably, I can see Stephano taking a few of the games.
that is, if Stephano shows up! oh ohohohoho, I kid
i have no experience with cross server lag, so i dont know how crucial it really is, but this could be a big problem for mc. he needs his amazing forcie fields to defend the 12 min max out.
btw: will there be vods? probably wont be able to watch it but i really want to see it >_<
Should be close, but Stephano just had one week of vacation where he didn't play at all, so I'm giving the advantage to MC, who spent this time playing games against DongRaeGu.
On April 28 2012 05:27 ShoWTimE94 wrote: i have no experience with cross server lag, so i dont know how crucial it really is, but this could be a big problem for mc. he needs his amazing forcie fields to defend the 12 min max out.
btw: will there be vods? probably wont be able to watch it but i really want to see it >_<
VODS are posted for the other previous Fight Clubs, so I assume the same will be the case for this one.
On April 28 2012 05:27 ShoWTimE94 wrote: i have no experience with cross server lag, so i dont know how crucial it really is, but this could be a big problem for mc. he needs his amazing forcie fields to defend the 12 min max out.
btw: will there be vods? probably wont be able to watch it but i really want to see it >_<
Lag can be a problem for both of them( i think stephano forfeited some na matches due to lag).Hopefully it will be tolerable for both players and it won't dictate games in such a way.
Stephano got crushed many times before by MC and he should take it easily this time as well the only problem is the cross-server lag which may cost him some games.
It's kinda sad seeing people preemptively make excuses about cross-server lag. Koreans have really good internet, top teams shouldn't have game changing problems playing on foreign servers.
I guess it's another good reason to say "Stephano hasn't legitimately "proved himself" against top tier Koreans", should he win the showmatch.
On April 28 2012 06:09 emis wrote: It's kinda sad seeing people preemptively make excuses about cross-server lag. Koreans have really good internet, top teams shouldn't have a problem playing on foreign servers.
I guess it's another good reason to say "Stephano doesn't legitimately beat Code S players", should he win the showmatch, even though he's proved it wrong on multiple occasions.
It's not being used as an excuse for MC theoretically losing in most cases. People, me included, feel that lag ruins the legitimacy of anyone's win because it's just not proper conditions to be playing the game.
You could make both players play with their feet if you wanted and sure they'd both have an even playing feel but it wouldn't be a proper game.
Just listen to the pundits on SOTG when they talked about TSL4 and they mentioned it as well on the show before that. Cross server games are just bad for everyone, players and spectators regardless of who wins.
And you should stop denying that lag exists. I get 250ms connecting to NA from EU and I have good internet and am in western Europe. You can't play the game properly with 250ms.
On April 28 2012 06:09 emis wrote: It's kinda sad seeing people preemptively make excuses about cross-server lag. Koreans have really good internet, top teams shouldn't have a problem playing on foreign servers.
I guess it's another good reason to say "Stephano doesn't legitimately beat Code S players", should he win the showmatch, even though he's proved it wrong on multiple occasions.
It's not being used as an excuse for MC theoretically losing in most cases. People, me included, feel that lag ruins the legitimacy of anyone's win because it's just not proper conditions to be playing the game.
You could make both players play with their feet if you wanted and sure they'd both have an even playing feel but it wouldn't be a proper game.
Just listen to the pundits on SOTG when they talked about TSL4 and they mentioned it as well on the show before that. Cross server games are just bad for everyone, players and spectators regardless of who wins.
And you should stop denying that lag exists. I get 250ms connecting to NA from EU and I have good internet and am in western Europe. You can't play the game properly with 250ms.
I'm not denying the lag, I just don't think it's game changing. See my edited post.
EDIT: And I'm playing on NA from Estonia with a shitty connection. I don't get any lag whatsoever.
On April 28 2012 06:09 emis wrote: It's kinda sad seeing people preemptively make excuses about cross-server lag. Koreans have really good internet, top teams shouldn't have a problem playing on foreign servers.
I guess it's another good reason to say "Stephano doesn't legitimately beat Code S players", should he win the showmatch, even though he's proved it wrong on multiple occasions.
It's not being used as an excuse for MC theoretically losing in most cases. People, me included, feel that lag ruins the legitimacy of anyone's win because it's just not proper conditions to be playing the game.
You could make both players play with their feet if you wanted and sure they'd both have an even playing feel but it wouldn't be a proper game.
Just listen to the pundits on SOTG when they talked about TSL4 and they mentioned it as well on the show before that. Cross server games are just bad for everyone, players and spectators regardless of who wins.
And you should stop denying that lag exists. I get 250ms connecting to NA from EU and I have good internet and am in western Europe. You can't play the game properly with 250ms.
I'm not denying the lag, I just don't think it's game changing. See my edited post.
EDIT: And I'm playing on NA from Estonia with a shitty connection. I don't get any lag whatsoever.
So why do Huk, Idra and Nestea just flat out refuse to play cross server if it doesn't matter?
Why did Artosis say he has no interest in game played by Koreans on the NA server because they're a waste of time?
On April 28 2012 06:09 emis wrote: It's kinda sad seeing people preemptively make excuses about cross-server lag. Koreans have really good internet, top teams shouldn't have a problem playing on foreign servers.
I guess it's another good reason to say "Stephano doesn't legitimately beat Code S players", should he win the showmatch, even though he's proved it wrong on multiple occasions.
It's not being used as an excuse for MC theoretically losing in most cases. People, me included, feel that lag ruins the legitimacy of anyone's win because it's just not proper conditions to be playing the game.
You could make both players play with their feet if you wanted and sure they'd both have an even playing feel but it wouldn't be a proper game.
Just listen to the pundits on SOTG when they talked about TSL4 and they mentioned it as well on the show before that. Cross server games are just bad for everyone, players and spectators regardless of who wins.
And you should stop denying that lag exists. I get 250ms connecting to NA from EU and I have good internet and am in western Europe. You can't play the game properly with 250ms.
I'm not denying the lag, I just don't think it's game changing. See my edited post.
EDIT: And I'm playing on NA from Estonia with a shitty connection. I don't get any lag whatsoever.
If you don't think it's gamechanging then you just don't know what you're talking about. Imagine you're trying to split marines against banelings or land crucial forcefields with a small amount of delay. I've seen people like you with your "I just don't think it's a big deal" mentality, and they only stopped arguing once IdrA himself came into the thread and said that cross-server games are meaningless due to the lag. People like to say, "Well, it doesn't affect macro", but, yes, it does - it affects all aspects of someone's play. When you're a pro and you're trying to do everything to near perfection and you're used to playing with really good latency, lag simply throws you off.
I'm excited for this match just because of the names, but take the results with a massive grain of salt.
Calling MC to win this one, korean protosses have showed many times that they are perfectly capable of dealing with Stephanos ZvP and MC is one of the strongest PvZ players in korea.
On April 28 2012 06:09 emis wrote: It's kinda sad seeing people preemptively make excuses about cross-server lag. Koreans have really good internet, top teams shouldn't have a problem playing on foreign servers.
I guess it's another good reason to say "Stephano doesn't legitimately beat Code S players", should he win the showmatch, even though he's proved it wrong on multiple occasions.
It's not being used as an excuse for MC theoretically losing in most cases. People, me included, feel that lag ruins the legitimacy of anyone's win because it's just not proper conditions to be playing the game.
You could make both players play with their feet if you wanted and sure they'd both have an even playing feel but it wouldn't be a proper game.
Just listen to the pundits on SOTG when they talked about TSL4 and they mentioned it as well on the show before that. Cross server games are just bad for everyone, players and spectators regardless of who wins.
And you should stop denying that lag exists. I get 250ms connecting to NA from EU and I have good internet and am in western Europe. You can't play the game properly with 250ms.
I'm not denying the lag, I just don't think it's game changing. See my edited post.
EDIT: And I'm playing on NA from Estonia with a shitty connection. I don't get any lag whatsoever.
Koreans practice with NO lag. Their definition of no lag is also different to yours.. their KR server is basically LAN-level ping.
It's like practicing your micro on single player vs AI (zero lag) and suddenly going to 200+ ping. It makes a massive difference.
Why don't you try practicing your micro on single player vs AI for 80 hours then jump into a cross server game and see how it feels? See if it doesn't affect your game at all.
On April 28 2012 05:41 bpat wrote: MC has a 5-0 record vs Stephano and almost never loses PvZ, this should be pretty easy for him.
Plus his trophy is much bigger! But I don't think it'll be a shut out.
And I'm not sure how bad the lag is going to be for either player.
In an ideal situation, neither player would experience any lag... but if there's lag on both sides, I think that missing forcefields can be more game-ending than anything so common and drastic on the Zerg's side, so MC would be in a slightly worse position
Anyway Stephano is like a slightly weaker DRG. From watching both of them play I can certainly see Stephano taking some games off him. I don't expect him to win though. I think Stephano has better ZvP than say Leenock or Nestea.
If they play on EU (I think both are on EU atm? I could be wrong) MC will win 5-0 or 5-1. If they play on NA it might be close but still MC has the edge. Lets say 5-3 or 5-4. MC forcefields are just too good!
On April 28 2012 06:43 1Eris1 wrote: MC has never lost a game on vs Stephano, on either ladder or in a tournament
and the poll is 50/50....
never lost on ladder? How could you possibly know that? You're just trying to stir shit.
Actually, he's right.
When Stephano was in Korea 5 months ago, I used to see each session of his stream on korea ladder.
And he lost every time he played against MC... Except for this one time when MC accidentely picked random and ended up with zerg, this one, stephano won.
Anyway, you can see on Stephano match history that he's been practicing a lot with Bling and Mana these past 2 days (and winning most of the matchs), but they're miles away from MC in PvZ, so...I don't know.
On April 28 2012 06:43 1Eris1 wrote: MC has never lost a game on vs Stephano, on either ladder or in a tournament
and the poll is 50/50....
never lost on ladder? How could you possibly know that? You're just trying to stir shit.
Nah, he played something like 3-4 games vs MC on the Korean ladder, MC won all of them. It's all over Stephano's fanclub. Otherwise, MC has won every tournament game they've played. Yeah I guess if MC has played on an alt or something like that but I highly doubt it, since he has his premier accounts. And nah, just observing how biased/ridiculous some people are.
On April 28 2012 07:36 figq wrote: MC gonna mind trick Stephano, even though I think Stephano is overall better.
On April 28 2012 07:36 figq wrote: MC gonna mind trick Stephano, even though I think Stephano is overall better.
Yes, MC has won more than double Stephano's earnings and beaten him easily every time they've played because he's a worse player. MC has also won 2 Premier Tournaments this year to Stephano's zero because he's a worse player. That's how it works.
On April 28 2012 07:36 figq wrote: MC gonna mind trick Stephano, even though I think Stephano is overall better.
Case and point.
What exactly is your case? I didn't mean their 1-on-1.
And how do you justify this? MC has far more accomplishments, far more boX wins against top level korean players, a much higher overall winrate vs korean players, etc
On April 28 2012 07:36 figq wrote: MC gonna mind trick Stephano, even though I think Stephano is overall better.
Case and point.
What exactly is your case? I didn't mean their 1-on-1.
And how do you justify this? MC has far more accomplishments, far more boX wins against top level korean players, a much higher overall winrate vs korean players, etc
Agreed, and I'm an MC fan, however I consider his style more unstable, he has a tendency to fall off deeply, because of it. Potentially the style of Stephano is more solid, even though he obviously hasn't accomplished anything near MC yet.
On April 28 2012 05:20 mordk wrote: MC 5-0 Stephano
you really think it's gonna be that bad?
Well stephano hasn't ever beaten MC in non ladder games as far as I know, I don't think it'll be 5-0 more like 4-1 probably. Don't see stephano beating MC
On April 28 2012 07:36 figq wrote: MC gonna mind trick Stephano, even though I think Stephano is overall better.
Case and point.
What exactly is your case? I didn't mean their 1-on-1.
And how do you justify this? MC has far more accomplishments, far more boX wins against top level korean players, a much higher overall winrate vs korean players, etc
Going to be one epic series I think. Two HUGE fan favorites, two PvZ masters and two overall bosses. But judging from MC's PvZ recently, I think it will be 5-3 for MC.
On April 28 2012 07:36 figq wrote: MC gonna mind trick Stephano, even though I think Stephano is overall better.
Case and point.
What exactly is your case? I didn't mean their 1-on-1.
And how do you justify this? MC has far more accomplishments, far more boX wins against top level korean players, a much higher overall winrate vs korean players, etc
Case and Point.
Back to your, sir.
Yeah, you have no point whatsoever. Unless you're agreeing with me that some Stephano fans are ridiculous in their bias?
On April 28 2012 07:36 figq wrote: MC gonna mind trick Stephano, even though I think Stephano is overall better.
Case and point.
What exactly is your case? I didn't mean their 1-on-1.
And how do you justify this? MC has far more accomplishments, far more boX wins against top level korean players, a much higher overall winrate vs korean players, etc
Case and Point.
Back to your, sir.
Yeah, you have no point whatsoever. Unless you're agreeing with me that some Stephano fans are ridiculous in their bias?
I'm pretty sure he's not agreeing with you. If I recall correctly, I tried arguing with Otolia before and he's one of those insufferable Stephano fanboys that logic doesn't work on (if I am misremembering then I apologize, but I'm 90% sure it's him). It's a waste of time unless you enjoy bashing your head against a brick wall.
And I like Stephano. I think he's an incredibly talented player, one of the best foreigners, and I admire his attitude toward the game. But there's absolutely no basis for how highly some people rate him (best player in the world, or something along those lines)
Ok Stephano fanboys... Please tell me 5 Code S players Stephano has beaten in his career, to justify this "better than 2 time GSL champion and all time money list leader."
He beat Curious in IPL4. DRG in Blizzard Cup.
Any more?
Did he beat Polt (the Code A guy who only got into Code S because of a seed) when he was in Code S?
On April 28 2012 07:36 figq wrote: MC gonna mind trick Stephano, even though I think Stephano is overall better.
Case and point.
What exactly is your case? I didn't mean their 1-on-1.
And how do you justify this? MC has far more accomplishments, far more boX wins against top level korean players, a much higher overall winrate vs korean players, etc
Case and Point.
Back to your, sir.
Yeah, you have no point whatsoever. Unless you're agreeing with me that some Stephano fans are ridiculous in their bias?
I'm pretty sure he's not agreeing with you. If I recall correctly, I tried arguing with Otolia before and he's one of those insufferable Stephano fanboys that logic doesn't work on (if I am misremembering then I apologize, but I'm 90% sure it's him). It's a waste of time unless you enjoy bashing your head against a brick wall.
And I like Stephano. I think he's an incredibly talented player, one of the best foreigners, and I admire his attitude toward the game. But there's absolutely no basis for how highly some people rate him (best player in the world, or something along those lines)
Well, logic people commonly use to determine the "better player" is ridiculously flawed most of the time. Specifically when it comes to past results and accomplishments.
Unless one player happens to be overwhelmingly better than the other to the point where it's blatantly obvious, most arguments for who's the better player are just as bad as having no arguments at all and going by gut feeling instead.
Such statements are only worth considering when they come from other progamers anyway.
On April 28 2012 07:36 figq wrote: MC gonna mind trick Stephano, even though I think Stephano is overall better.
Case and point.
What exactly is your case? I didn't mean their 1-on-1.
And how do you justify this? MC has far more accomplishments, far more boX wins against top level korean players, a much higher overall winrate vs korean players, etc
Case and Point.
Back to your, sir.
Yeah, you have no point whatsoever. Unless you're agreeing with me that some Stephano fans are ridiculous in their bias?
I'm asking for your proofs, to hold you to the same standards you hold other people.
Accomplishment can be given to MC without a doubt. MC is in Korea and statistically plays more against Koreans, so that's not much of an argument. So I let you source your proofs for the 3rd point.
PS : I should have written "Case and Point ?" My apologies.
On April 28 2012 08:17 HolyArrow wrote: I'm pretty sure he's not agreeing with you. If I recall correctly, I tried arguing with Otolia before and he's one of those insufferable Stephano fanboys that logic doesn't work on (if I am misremembering then I apologize, but I'm 90% sure it's him). It's a waste of time unless you enjoy bashing your head against a brick wall.
And I like Stephano. I think he's an incredibly talented player, one of the best foreigners, and I admire his attitude toward the game. But there's absolutely no basis for how highly some people rate him (best player in the world, or something along those lines)
When his opponent in this showmatch himself is saying that Stephano is in the top 3 for zerg worldwide (Source), I believe he has a strong insight and knowledge of the game. Maybe your insight is superior to MC's one but you will have to write something better than insulting me for pointing out how little you develop to sustain your case and how much you try to smear people's name.
Aside from that, I welcome you into the list of people I should get rid of once I seize control of TL.
Wow. I usually don't give a shit about showmatches, but this could just be the most interesting match there is. Mostly since MC claims pvz is so easy and stephano says toss has no chance. How often do pros claim their race is overpowered in some matchup? Well, only one of them can win. I just hope the stakes are enough for both to show all they got.
MC's PvZ is not exactly unbeatable - he's 55% Korea and 72% International, with a 50% win rate vs. Zerg in his last tournament, where he won 3-0 vs. DRG, then lost 1-2 to Violet, and 1-3 to DRG when they rematched. Stephano is no worse than Violet in ZvP and has a 72% win rate in ZvP International. But, MC has learned from his mistakes vs. Violet and DRG, whereas Stephano hasn't lost against a Protoss in tournaments after IPL 4.
Style-wise, Stephano barely uses mutas in the match up, and prefers infestor heavy play. In this he's different from DRG and other Korean Zergs, who love their muta switches. What he shares with them is the policy of going mass roaches on three bases to deny a Protoss third. This latter style, MC knows how to exploit, and his templar control - provided he goes it - is better than EU Protosses, making his late game play better vs. Stephano's infestor heavy style.
Predictions-wise, I'm going to give the advantage to MC. He's got an excellent understanding of two base timings and how to play them, great templar control to counter infestors, and solid defense vs. three hatch roach.
On April 28 2012 08:22 jianming wrote: Ok Stephano fanboys... Please tell me 5 Code S players Stephano has beaten in his career, to justify this "better than 2 time GSL champion and all time money list leader."
He beat Curious in IPL4. DRG in Blizzard Cup.
Any more?
Did he beat Polt (the Code A guy who only got into Code S because of a seed) when he was in Code S?
On April 28 2012 08:22 jianming wrote: Ok Stephano fanboys... Please tell me 5 Code S players Stephano has beaten in his career, to justify this "better than 2 time GSL champion and all time money list leader."
He beat Curious in IPL4. DRG in Blizzard Cup.
Any more?
Did he beat Polt (the Code A guy who only got into Code S because of a seed) when he was in Code S?
On April 28 2012 08:22 jianming wrote: Ok Stephano fanboys... Please tell me 5 Code S players Stephano has beaten in his career, to justify this "better than 2 time GSL champion and all time money list leader."
He beat Curious in IPL4. DRG in Blizzard Cup.
Any more?
Did he beat Polt (the Code A guy who only got into Code S because of a seed) when he was in Code S?
MKP, Curious, DRG, Polt, HerO.
Events?
ESWC - mkp blizzard cup - HerO,DRG IPL 4 - Curious Lone Star - Polt
On April 28 2012 08:22 jianming wrote: Ok Stephano fanboys... Please tell me 5 Code S players Stephano has beaten in his career, to justify this "better than 2 time GSL champion and all time money list leader."
He beat Curious in IPL4. DRG in Blizzard Cup.
Any more?
Did he beat Polt (the Code A guy who only got into Code S because of a seed) when he was in Code S?
On April 28 2012 08:22 jianming wrote: Ok Stephano fanboys... Please tell me 5 Code S players Stephano has beaten in his career, to justify this "better than 2 time GSL champion and all time money list leader."
He beat Curious in IPL4. DRG in Blizzard Cup.
Any more?
Did he beat Polt (the Code A guy who only got into Code S because of a seed) when he was in Code S?
Hero was not in Code S during Blizzard Cup. Polt was Code A during Lonestar.
Edit: Stephano has definitely proved that he can compete with Code S players, especially lower tiered ones, but to say he is better than MC is ridiculous. He has done absolutely nothing to prove that.
On April 28 2012 08:22 jianming wrote: Ok Stephano fanboys... Please tell me 5 Code S players Stephano has beaten in his career, to justify this "better than 2 time GSL champion and all time money list leader."
He beat Curious in IPL4. DRG in Blizzard Cup.
Any more?
Did he beat Polt (the Code A guy who only got into Code S because of a seed) when he was in Code S?
Hero was not in Code S during Blizzard Cup. Polt was Code A during Lonestar.
Oh, you mean people who were in Code S at the time he played them.
Well, Polt's still there, because was seeded into Code S right before Lone Star.
Instead of HerO, put Zenio.
Edit: Stephano has definitely proved that he can compete with Code S players, especially lower tiered ones, but to say he is better than MC is ridiculous. He has done absolutely nothing to prove that.
On April 28 2012 08:22 jianming wrote: Ok Stephano fanboys... Please tell me 5 Code S players Stephano has beaten in his career, to justify this "better than 2 time GSL champion and all time money list leader."
He beat Curious in IPL4. DRG in Blizzard Cup.
Any more?
Did he beat Polt (the Code A guy who only got into Code S because of a seed) when he was in Code S?
Edit: Stephano has definitely proved that he can compete with Code S players, especially lower tiered ones, but to say he is better than MC is ridiculous. He has done absolutely nothing to prove that.
He's not better than MC.
Still don't think Polt counts, because he wasn't in Code S at the time, and was only there because of a seed, but I'm guessing a few more could be named anyway. The point I was getting at was that Stephano hasn't really beaten many top Koreans in his career (yet), so hasn't really proved he can be considered better than some of the best in the world.
55% vs 45%. Nevermind the fact that majority of Stephano's oppenenst have been guys like Polt who can't even stay in Code A, where as MC is consistently going up against the cream of Code S
Good, let me bring some more infos. We can't take GSL into account because it's a preparation based league where Stephano didn't play yet. Results are very dependent from coaching and build orders so we have to measure things in an equal field. HSC was more of a party for most foreigners. And even though we consider it premier in LP, it's only due to the innovation and the entertainment value. Still I included it.
And I'm not even removing online games which are different from offline ones (though I guess it would work in MC's favor)
Conclusion : Results are very similar. You cannot based your conclusion on that unless you want to win an internet argument. Without HSC, Stephano has a winning record and MC a losing one, with it it's reversed.
i really enjoy this showmatch with this two great players but i think i don't go read this thread during the match. Too much agressives haters and gosu analyst for me :D
55% vs 45%. Nevermind the fact that majority of Stephano's oppenenst have been guys like Polt who can't even stay in Code A, where as MC is consistently going up against the cream of Code S
Good, let me bring some more infos. We can't take GSL into account because it's a preparation based league where Stephano didn't play yet. Results are very dependent from coaching and build orders so we have to measure things in an equal field. HSC was more of a party for most foreigners. And even though we consider it premier in LP, it's only due to the innovation and the entertainment value. Still I included it.
And I'm not even removing online games which are different from offline ones (though I guess it would work in MC's favor)
Conclusion : Results are very similar. You cannot based your conclusion on that unless you want to win an internet argument. Without HSC, Stephano has a winning record and MC a losing one, with it it's reversed.
1-3 vs DRG 2-1 vs Parting 2-1 vs MKP 1-2 Violet 0-3 vs Ganzi 1-2 vs Heart 3-0 vs DRG 2-3 vs Alive 0-2 vs Creator 1-2 vs Squirtle 0-2 vs Polt 2-0 vs Puma 2-0 vs MVP 2-0 vs Symbol 2-1 vs Polt 2-1 vs CrazyMoving 1-2 vs Ganzi 0-2 vs MKP 3-2 vs Puma 3-0 vs Violet 0-2 vs Ganzi 1-2 vs Parting 2-0 vs theSTC 4-0 vs Sound 3-2 vs JYP 0-2 vs MKP
0-2 vs MMA 1-2 vs Nestea 2-0 vs Bomber 2-1 vs Curious 2-1 vs JYP 1-2 vs MKP 0-2 vs Jjakji 1-2 vs Life 1-2 vs Inori 1-2 vs Polt 5-2 vs Polt 0-1 vs Alive 0-2 vs Polt 2-0 vs Zenio 1-4 vs Polt 3-0 vs puma 2-0 vs TypeReal (not even sure who this, but he has a Korean flag) 2-0 vs Inori 2-0 vs Hyun 3-2 vs Violet 3-2 vs Polt 0-2 vs MKP 0-2 vs MC (lolol) 0-2 vs Sound
34-35. Where are you getting 28-26 from?
And how are you not going to count GSL games? What a bullshit excuse. It seems the only way you can make an arguement is by cherrypicking results or falsifying stats.
55% vs 45%. Nevermind the fact that majority of Stephano's oppenenst have been guys like Polt who can't even stay in Code A, where as MC is consistently going up against the cream of Code S
Good, let me bring some more infos. We can't take GSL into account because it's a preparation based league where Stephano didn't play yet. Results are very dependent from coaching and build orders so we have to measure things in an equal field. HSC was more of a party for most foreigners. And even though we consider it premier in LP, it's only due to the innovation and the entertainment value. Still I included it.
And I'm not even removing online games which are different from offline ones (though I guess it would work in MC's favor)
Conclusion : Results are very similar. You cannot based your conclusion on that unless you want to win an internet argument. Without HSC, Stephano has a winning record and MC a losing one, with it it's reversed.
1-3 vs DRG 2-1 vs Parting 2-1 vs MKP 1-2 Violet 0-3 vs Ganzi 1-2 vs Heart 3-0 vs DRG 2-3 vs Alive 0-2 vs Creator 1-2 vs Squirtle 0-2 vs Polt 2-0 vs Puma 2-0 vs MVP 2-0 vs Symbol 2-1 vs Polt 2-1 vs CrazyMoving 1-2 vs Ganzi 0-2 vs MKP 3-2 vs Puma 3-0 vs Violet 0-2 vs Ganzi 1-2 vs Parting 2-0 vs theSTC 4-0 vs Sound 3-2 vs JYP 0-2 vs MKP
40-37. Looks like I was off by a couple here. You were off by 10+.
0-2 vs MMA 1-2 vs Nestea 2-1 vs Bomber 2-1 vs Curious 2-1 vs JYP 1-2 vs MKP 0-2 vs Jjakji 0-2 vs Life 1-2 vs Inori 1-2 vs Polt 4-2 vs Polt 0-1 vs Alive 0-2 vs Polt 2-0 vs Zenio 1-4 vs Polt 3-0 vs puma 2-0 vs TypeReal (not even sure who this, but he has a Korean flag) 2-0 vs Inori 2-0 vs Hyun 3-2 vs Violet 3-2 vs Polt 0-2 vs MKP 0-2 vs MC (lolol) 0-2 vs Sound
32-36. I accidently counted the Dream games wrong. Where the fuck are you getting 28-26 from?
And how the fuck are you not going to count GSL games? What a bullshit excuse. It seems the only way you can make an arguement is by cherrypicking results or falsifying stats.
Don't feed the trolls, or argue with mindless fanboys. Fact remains that Stephano has done (basically) nothing against top Koreans, and MC has. Maybe Stephano will start playing them more, and will be able to prove himself, but until he does that, it's impossible to say that Stephano is better than someone like MC (or any other top Korean).
55% vs 45%. Nevermind the fact that majority of Stephano's oppenenst have been guys like Polt who can't even stay in Code A, where as MC is consistently going up against the cream of Code S
Good, let me bring some more infos. We can't take GSL into account because it's a preparation based league where Stephano didn't play yet. Results are very dependent from coaching and build orders so we have to measure things in an equal field. HSC was more of a party for most foreigners. And even though we consider it premier in LP, it's only due to the innovation and the entertainment value. Still I included it.
And I'm not even removing online games which are different from offline ones (though I guess it would work in MC's favor)
Conclusion : Results are very similar. You cannot based your conclusion on that unless you want to win an internet argument. Without HSC, Stephano has a winning record and MC a losing one, with it it's reversed.
1-3 vs DRG 2-1 vs Parting 2-1 vs MKP 1-2 Violet 0-3 vs Ganzi 1-2 vs Heart 3-0 vs DRG 2-3 vs Alive 0-2 vs Creator 1-2 vs Squirtle 0-2 vs Polt 2-0 vs Puma 2-0 vs MVP 2-0 vs Symbol 2-1 vs Polt 2-1 vs CrazyMoving 1-2 vs Ganzi 0-2 vs MKP 3-2 vs Puma 3-0 vs Violet 0-2 vs Ganzi 1-2 vs Parting 2-0 vs theSTC 4-0 vs Sound 3-2 vs JYP 0-2 vs MKP
40-37. Looks like I was off by a couple here. You were off by 10+.
0-2 vs MMA 1-2 vs Nestea 2-1 vs Bomber 2-1 vs Curious 2-1 vs JYP 1-2 vs MKP 0-2 vs Jjakji 0-2 vs Life 1-2 vs Inori 1-2 vs Polt 4-2 vs Polt 0-1 vs Alive 0-2 vs Polt 2-0 vs Zenio 1-4 vs Polt 3-0 vs puma 2-0 vs TypeReal (not even sure who this, but he has a Korean flag) 2-0 vs Inori 2-0 vs Hyun 3-2 vs Violet 3-2 vs Polt 0-2 vs MKP 0-2 vs MC (lolol) 0-2 vs Sound
32-36. I accidently counted the Dream games wrong. Where the fuck are you getting 28-26 from?
And how the fuck are you not going to count GSL games? What a bullshit excuse. It seems the only way you can make an arguement is by cherrypicking results or falsifying stats.
As planned, you are more looking to impose your point of view. I'm going to walk away now but I'm sure we'll meet again. Until then I recommend you get a scientific education which could allow you to understand why comparison between things needs to have equivalent (or if it's impossible very similar) system.
PS : You pretend to know stuff but you don't know ReaL ?! And I am the ignorant fanboy ... This is glorious.
On April 28 2012 09:58 jianming wrote: Don't feed the trolls, or argue with mindless fanboys. Fact remains that Stephano has done (basically) nothing against top Koreans, and MC has. Maybe Stephano will start playing them more, and will be able to prove himself, but until he does that, it's impossible to say that Stephano is better than someone like MC (or any other top Korean).
Dear jianming, I wish you the same destiny as Seraphone. XOXO
55% vs 45%. Nevermind the fact that majority of Stephano's oppenenst have been guys like Polt who can't even stay in Code A, where as MC is consistently going up against the cream of Code S
Good, let me bring some more infos. We can't take GSL into account because it's a preparation based league where Stephano didn't play yet. Results are very dependent from coaching and build orders so we have to measure things in an equal field. HSC was more of a party for most foreigners. And even though we consider it premier in LP, it's only due to the innovation and the entertainment value. Still I included it.
And I'm not even removing online games which are different from offline ones (though I guess it would work in MC's favor)
Conclusion : Results are very similar. You cannot based your conclusion on that unless you want to win an internet argument. Without HSC, Stephano has a winning record and MC a losing one, with it it's reversed.
1-3 vs DRG 2-1 vs Parting 2-1 vs MKP 1-2 Violet 0-3 vs Ganzi 1-2 vs Heart 3-0 vs DRG 2-3 vs Alive 0-2 vs Creator 1-2 vs Squirtle 0-2 vs Polt 2-0 vs Puma 2-0 vs MVP 2-0 vs Symbol 2-1 vs Polt 2-1 vs CrazyMoving 1-2 vs Ganzi 0-2 vs MKP 3-2 vs Puma 3-0 vs Violet 0-2 vs Ganzi 1-2 vs Parting 2-0 vs theSTC 4-0 vs Sound 3-2 vs JYP 0-2 vs MKP
40-37. Looks like I was off by a couple here. You were off by 10+.
0-2 vs MMA 1-2 vs Nestea 2-1 vs Bomber 2-1 vs Curious 2-1 vs JYP 1-2 vs MKP 0-2 vs Jjakji 0-2 vs Life 1-2 vs Inori 1-2 vs Polt 4-2 vs Polt 0-1 vs Alive 0-2 vs Polt 2-0 vs Zenio 1-4 vs Polt 3-0 vs puma 2-0 vs TypeReal (not even sure who this, but he has a Korean flag) 2-0 vs Inori 2-0 vs Hyun 3-2 vs Violet 3-2 vs Polt 0-2 vs MKP 0-2 vs MC (lolol) 0-2 vs Sound
32-36. I accidently counted the Dream games wrong. Where the fuck are you getting 28-26 from?
And how the fuck are you not going to count GSL games? What a bullshit excuse. It seems the only way you can make an arguement is by cherrypicking results or falsifying stats.
As planned, you are more looking to impose your point of view. I'm going to walk away now but I'm sure we'll meet again. Until then I recommend you get a scientific education which could allow you to understand why comparison between things needs to have equivalent (or if it's impossible very similar) system.
PS : You pretend to know stuff but you don't know ReaL ?! And I am the ignorant fanboy ... This is glorious.
I warned you, Eris. I warned you. Why didn't you listen?
1Eris1, your figures have some errors, please correct in the interests of accuracy.
Stephano beat Bomber 2-0 not 2-1 at IPL4. He also beat Polt 5-2 not 4-2 at Lone Star Clash. He also lost 1-2 to Life, not 0-2 in Iron Squid. So your amended figures for Stephano vs Koreans in 2012 should read 34-35.
My amendments can be verified in the liquipedia records for IPL4, Lone Star Clash and Iron Squid.
I have not checked your MC stats but unless you did better research than for your Stephano figures then they are probably inaccurate too. I agree with the point you are making about MC having better results against Koreans in 2012, but supplying stats to support your argument will have the effect of reducing your credibility if you supply incorrect data.
Stephano is on the record as saying MC is one of the 3 players he fears the most, the others are MKP and MMA. So Stephano is aware that MC is a big challenge for him.
On April 28 2012 11:10 revel8 wrote: 1Eris1, your figures have some errors, please correct in the interests of accuracy.
Stephano beat Bomber 2-0 not 2-1 at IPL4. He also beat Polt 5-2 not 4-2 at Lone Star Clash. He also lost 1-2 to Life, not 0-2 in Iron Squid. So your amended figures for Stephano vs Koreans in 2012 should read 34-35.
My amendments can be verified in the liquipedia records for IPL4, Lone Star Clash and Iron Squid.
I have not checked your MC stats but unless you did better research than for your Stephano figures then they are probably inaccurate too. I agree with the point you are making about MC having better results against Koreans in 2012, but supplying stats to support your argument will have the effect of reducing your credibility if you supply incorrect data.
Stephano is on the record as saying MC is one of the 3 players he fears the most, the others are MKP and MMA. So Stephano is aware that MC is a big challenge for him.
I went off of TLPD, so it's possible they are different from Liquidpedia. Whatever I'll change them, I just wanted to point out that he was making up completely random numbers.
55% vs 45%. Nevermind the fact that majority of Stephano's oppenenst have been guys like Polt who can't even stay in Code A, where as MC is consistently going up against the cream of Code S
Good, let me bring some more infos. We can't take GSL into account because it's a preparation based league where Stephano didn't play yet. Results are very dependent from coaching and build orders so we have to measure things in an equal field. HSC was more of a party for most foreigners. And even though we consider it premier in LP, it's only due to the innovation and the entertainment value. Still I included it.
And I'm not even removing online games which are different from offline ones (though I guess it would work in MC's favor)
Conclusion : Results are very similar. You cannot based your conclusion on that unless you want to win an internet argument. Without HSC, Stephano has a winning record and MC a losing one, with it it's reversed.
1-3 vs DRG 2-1 vs Parting 2-1 vs MKP 1-2 Violet 0-3 vs Ganzi 1-2 vs Heart 3-0 vs DRG 2-3 vs Alive 0-2 vs Creator 1-2 vs Squirtle 0-2 vs Polt 2-0 vs Puma 2-0 vs MVP 2-0 vs Symbol 2-1 vs Polt 2-1 vs CrazyMoving 1-2 vs Ganzi 0-2 vs MKP 3-2 vs Puma 3-0 vs Violet 0-2 vs Ganzi 1-2 vs Parting 2-0 vs theSTC 4-0 vs Sound 3-2 vs JYP 0-2 vs MKP
40-37. Looks like I was off by a couple here. You were off by 10+.
0-2 vs MMA 1-2 vs Nestea 2-1 vs Bomber 2-1 vs Curious 2-1 vs JYP 1-2 vs MKP 0-2 vs Jjakji 0-2 vs Life 1-2 vs Inori 1-2 vs Polt 4-2 vs Polt 0-1 vs Alive 0-2 vs Polt 2-0 vs Zenio 1-4 vs Polt 3-0 vs puma 2-0 vs TypeReal (not even sure who this, but he has a Korean flag) 2-0 vs Inori 2-0 vs Hyun 3-2 vs Violet 3-2 vs Polt 0-2 vs MKP 0-2 vs MC (lolol) 0-2 vs Sound
32-36. I accidently counted the Dream games wrong. Where the fuck are you getting 28-26 from?
And how the fuck are you not going to count GSL games? What a bullshit excuse. It seems the only way you can make an arguement is by cherrypicking results or falsifying stats.
As planned, you are more looking to impose your point of view. I'm going to walk away now but I'm sure we'll meet again. Until then I recommend you get a scientific education which could allow you to understand why comparison between things needs to have equivalent (or if it's impossible very similar) system.
PS : You pretend to know stuff but you don't know ReaL ?! And I am the ignorant fanboy ... This is glorious.
I warned you, Eris. I warned you. Why didn't you listen?
Sometimes they bite. The less blind fanboyism the better. : /
On April 28 2012 09:15 Bagration wrote: MC wins. He crushed Violet last week so convincingly I have to give him the advantage. But this will be a great series.
55% vs 45%. Nevermind the fact that majority of Stephano's oppenenst have been guys like Polt who can't even stay in Code A, where as MC is consistently going up against the cream of Code S
Good, let me bring some more infos. We can't take GSL into account because it's a preparation based league where Stephano didn't play yet. Results are very dependent from coaching and build orders so we have to measure things in an equal field. HSC was more of a party for most foreigners. And even though we consider it premier in LP, it's only due to the innovation and the entertainment value. Still I included it.
And I'm not even removing online games which are different from offline ones (though I guess it would work in MC's favor)
Conclusion : Results are very similar. You cannot based your conclusion on that unless you want to win an internet argument. Without HSC, Stephano has a winning record and MC a losing one, with it it's reversed.
1-3 vs DRG 2-1 vs Parting 2-1 vs MKP 1-2 Violet 0-3 vs Ganzi 1-2 vs Heart 3-0 vs DRG 2-3 vs Alive 0-2 vs Creator 1-2 vs Squirtle 0-2 vs Polt 2-0 vs Puma 2-0 vs MVP 2-0 vs Symbol 2-1 vs Polt 2-1 vs CrazyMoving 1-2 vs Ganzi 0-2 vs MKP 3-2 vs Puma 3-0 vs Violet 0-2 vs Ganzi 1-2 vs Parting 2-0 vs theSTC 4-0 vs Sound 3-2 vs JYP 0-2 vs MKP
40-37. Looks like I was off by a couple here. You were off by 10+.
0-2 vs MMA 1-2 vs Nestea 2-1 vs Bomber 2-1 vs Curious 2-1 vs JYP 1-2 vs MKP 0-2 vs Jjakji 0-2 vs Life 1-2 vs Inori 1-2 vs Polt 4-2 vs Polt 0-1 vs Alive 0-2 vs Polt 2-0 vs Zenio 1-4 vs Polt 3-0 vs puma 2-0 vs TypeReal (not even sure who this, but he has a Korean flag) 2-0 vs Inori 2-0 vs Hyun 3-2 vs Violet 3-2 vs Polt 0-2 vs MKP 0-2 vs MC (lolol) 0-2 vs Sound
32-36. I accidently counted the Dream games wrong. Where the fuck are you getting 28-26 from?
And how the fuck are you not going to count GSL games? What a bullshit excuse. It seems the only way you can make an arguement is by cherrypicking results or falsifying stats.
Don't feed the trolls, or argue with mindless fanboys. Fact remains that Stephano has done (basically) nothing against top Koreans, and MC has. Maybe Stephano will start playing them more, and will be able to prove himself, but until he does that, it's impossible to say that Stephano is better than someone like MC (or any other top Korean).
Stephano have done nothing against top koreans ? lol watch IPL 4 and thats just his latest tournament. You are a clown and when Stephano beats MC you proberly gonna blame it on lag right?
I find it funny you haters never learn
And btw 1Eris1 do you get payed to hate Stephano? Becuase in every thread you always there trying to dismiss his amasing achievements. What exactly have Stephano done to you, Did he steal you girlfriend or something?
On April 28 2012 11:33 IMNasty wrote:
foreigner bias much? let me know the last time he beat a code S protoss
Hero got slaughtered when he meet Stephano and so did JYP and he only got korea´s 2nd best PvZ
And btw one last thing MC himself consider Stephano among the 3 best zergs in the world.
On April 28 2012 10:28 Rayjin wrote: In my opinion Stephano has the best ZvP at the moment ( Yes, i would put him above DRG in this Matchup ^^ ).
Overall MC is the better player, but i think he'll lose this battle.
foreigner bias much? let me know the last time he beat a code S protoss
Good question. He has beaten JYP at IPL4 and also defeated Hero at Blizzard Cup. These players are Code S Level but were not in Code S at the time of the matches, but Stephano has not really played many Protoss in Code S at all apart from Korean Ladder. He has played MC and lost every time. You have to go back to when he beat Puzzle 2-0 in IPL3 Qualifiers last September or went 2-0 over Huk at IPL3 last October. AFAIK the only Code S Protoss to have played and beaten Stephano are MC and Naniwa. Has Huk beaten Stephano in a series?
This bickering is childish. Let's just enjoy the games FFS. Like InControl, I am excited by this showmatch. Should be entertaining whoever you root for.
Personally I'd like to thank IPL for putting together this showmatch for us. I've been really impressed with their previous Fight Club showmatches and this one could be the best one yet.
On April 28 2012 08:42 dragonborn wrote: stephano is a better player than MC, but MC is more gimmicky.
i hope stephano find a way for beating MC's gimmicky play.
I'm sick and tired of your blind fanboyism. Get out.
who the heck are you and saying "get out" to me?
you should respect my opinions.
I only respect opinions without a ridiculous amount of bias.
that comment wasnt biased.
Facts: 1. MC has sc2 earnings twice as much as Stephano. 2. MC has 2 GSL under his belt. 3. Both of them have same international winrates, with MC constantly doing better at more stacked events including several MLGs. 4. MC has 60% winrate in GSL with more than 150 games played, Stephano only played 4 tournament games in Korea, winning a ZvZ, a ZvP, and losing a ZvP to MC, a ZvT to MVP. 5. MC was winning Code S before Stephano even turned Pro. 6. MC has never ever lost a game to Stephano.
Tell me with a straight face that Stephano is better than MC.
On April 28 2012 08:42 dragonborn wrote: stephano is a better player than MC, but MC is more gimmicky.
i hope stephano find a way for beating MC's gimmicky play.
I'm sick and tired of your blind fanboyism. Get out.
who the heck are you and saying "get out" to me?
you should respect my opinions.
I only respect opinions without a ridiculous amount of bias.
that comment wasnt biased.
Facts: 1. MC has sc2 earnings twice as much as Stephano. 2. MC has 2 GSL under his belt. 3. Both of them have same international winrates, with MC constantly doing better at more stacked events including several MLGs. 4. MC has 60% winrate in GSL with more than 150 games played, Stephano only played 3 tournament games in Korea, winning a ZvZ, a ZvP, and losing a ZvP to MC. 5. MC has never ever lost a game to Stephano.
Tell me with a straight face that Stephano is better than MC.
On April 28 2012 08:42 dragonborn wrote: stephano is a better player than MC, but MC is more gimmicky.
i hope stephano find a way for beating MC's gimmicky play.
I'm sick and tired of your blind fanboyism. Get out.
who the heck are you and saying "get out" to me?
you should respect my opinions.
I only respect opinions without a ridiculous amount of bias.
that comment wasnt biased.
Facts: 1. MC has sc2 earnings twice as much as Stephano. 2. MC has 2 GSL under his belt. 3. Both of them have same international winrates, with MC constantly doing better at more stacked events including several MLGs. 4. MC has 60% winrate in GSL with more than 150 games played, Stephano only played 3 tournament games in Korea, winning a ZvZ, a ZvP, and losing a ZvP to MC. 5. MC has never ever lost a game to Stephano.
Tell me with a straight face that Stephano is better than MC.
*straight face*
Stephano is better than MC.
And that's why I don't need to respect your opinion.
Calm down guys, just enjoy the showmatch! What does it matter who is "objectively" better? Could we delay the heated debate until after the broadcast? Then you'll actually have new material to work with.
On April 28 2012 08:42 dragonborn wrote: stephano is a better player than MC, but MC is more gimmicky.
i hope stephano find a way for beating MC's gimmicky play.
I'm sick and tired of your blind fanboyism. Get out.
who the heck are you and saying "get out" to me?
you should respect my opinions.
I only respect opinions without a ridiculous amount of bias.
that comment wasnt biased.
Facts: 1. MC has sc2 earnings twice as much as Stephano. 2. MC has 2 GSL under his belt. 3. Both of them have same international winrates, with MC constantly doing better at more stacked events including several MLGs. 4. MC has 60% winrate in GSL with more than 150 games played, Stephano only played 3 tournament games in Korea, winning a ZvZ, a ZvP, and losing a ZvP to MC. 5. MC has never ever lost a game to Stephano.
Tell me with a straight face that Stephano is better than MC.
*straight face*
Stephano is better than MC.
And that's why I don't need to respect your opinion.
On April 28 2012 08:42 dragonborn wrote: stephano is a better player than MC, but MC is more gimmicky.
i hope stephano find a way for beating MC's gimmicky play.
I'm sick and tired of your blind fanboyism. Get out.
who the heck are you and saying "get out" to me?
you should respect my opinions.
I only respect opinions without a ridiculous amount of bias.
that comment wasnt biased.
Facts: 1. MC has sc2 earnings twice as much as Stephano. 2. MC has 2 GSL under his belt. 3. Both of them have same international winrates, with MC constantly doing better at more stacked events including several MLGs. 4. MC has 60% winrate in GSL with more than 150 games played, Stephano only played 3 tournament games in Korea, winning a ZvZ, a ZvP, and losing a ZvP to MC. 5. MC has never ever lost a game to Stephano.
Tell me with a straight face that Stephano is better than MC.
Actually Stephano has played 4 tournament games in Korea - he also lost a ZvT vs MVP. Please amend.
You should also mention that MC has been a SC2 Pro-gamer for more than a year longer than Stephano. I believe MC was playing in GSL a year before Stephano even turned Pro. This adds context to their respective careers in SC2.
On April 28 2012 12:45 StarVe wrote: Calm down guys, just enjoy the showmatch! What does it matter who is "objectively" better? Could we delay the heated debate until after the broadcast? Then you'll actually have new material to work with.
I agree. It's like a playground in here. Except with worse arithmetic.
On April 28 2012 08:42 dragonborn wrote: stephano is a better player than MC, but MC is more gimmicky.
i hope stephano find a way for beating MC's gimmicky play.
I'm sick and tired of your blind fanboyism. Get out.
who the heck are you and saying "get out" to me?
you should respect my opinions.
I only respect opinions without a ridiculous amount of bias.
that comment wasnt biased.
Facts: 1. MC has sc2 earnings twice as much as Stephano. 2. MC has 2 GSL under his belt. 3. Both of them have same international winrates, with MC constantly doing better at more stacked events including several MLGs. 4. MC has 60% winrate in GSL with more than 150 games played, Stephano only played 3 tournament games in Korea, winning a ZvZ, a ZvP, and losing a ZvP to MC. 5. MC has never ever lost a game to Stephano.
Tell me with a straight face that Stephano is better than MC.
*straight face*
Stephano is better than MC.
And that's why I don't need to respect your opinion.
you still need to respect it
you cant say "get out" to me due my opinion.
such things like opinions and faith should never be respected, but of course it should be voiced ^^
I think both of these players are mentally strong and no one will get swept or owned unless one of them suddenly becomes exhausted because of their schedule. Therefore, 5-4. I just tossed a coin.
On April 28 2012 08:42 dragonborn wrote: stephano is a better player than MC, but MC is more gimmicky.
i hope stephano find a way for beating MC's gimmicky play.
I'm sick and tired of your blind fanboyism. Get out.
who the heck are you and saying "get out" to me?
you should respect my opinions.
I only respect opinions without a ridiculous amount of bias.
that comment wasnt biased.
Facts: 1. MC has sc2 earnings twice as much as Stephano. 2. MC has 2 GSL under his belt. 3. Both of them have same international winrates, with MC constantly doing better at more stacked events including several MLGs. 4. MC has 60% winrate in GSL with more than 150 games played, Stephano only played 3 tournament games in Korea, winning a ZvZ, a ZvP, and losing a ZvP to MC. 5. MC has never ever lost a game to Stephano.
Tell me with a straight face that Stephano is better than MC.
On April 28 2012 12:15 Let it Raine wrote: from the pov of a player it does not matter who he is playing, just the race.
stephano believes he has solved zvp and, outside a few lucky all ins, he doesn't lose.
what can MC do that his past opponents could not?
can't wait to find out.
Stephano doesn't think his play is perfect. In every interview he's given he's said that his own mistakes are responsible for his losses, not the style that he uses. He's the opposite of IdrA in this, though at times he does complain about people meta-gaming against him.
55% vs 45%. Nevermind the fact that majority of Stephano's oppenenst have been guys like Polt who can't even stay in Code A, where as MC is consistently going up against the cream of Code S
Good, let me bring some more infos. We can't take GSL into account because it's a preparation based league where Stephano didn't play yet. Results are very dependent from coaching and build orders so we have to measure things in an equal field. HSC was more of a party for most foreigners. And even though we consider it premier in LP, it's only due to the innovation and the entertainment value. Still I included it.
And I'm not even removing online games which are different from offline ones (though I guess it would work in MC's favor)
Conclusion : Results are very similar. You cannot based your conclusion on that unless you want to win an internet argument. Without HSC, Stephano has a winning record and MC a losing one, with it it's reversed.
1-3 vs DRG 2-1 vs Parting 2-1 vs MKP 1-2 Violet 0-3 vs Ganzi 1-2 vs Heart 3-0 vs DRG 2-3 vs Alive 0-2 vs Creator 1-2 vs Squirtle 0-2 vs Polt 2-0 vs Puma 2-0 vs MVP 2-0 vs Symbol 2-1 vs Polt 2-1 vs CrazyMoving 1-2 vs Ganzi 0-2 vs MKP 3-2 vs Puma 3-0 vs Violet 0-2 vs Ganzi 1-2 vs Parting 2-0 vs theSTC 4-0 vs Sound 3-2 vs JYP 0-2 vs MKP
40-37. Looks like I was off by a couple here. You were off by 10+.
0-2 vs MMA 1-2 vs Nestea 2-1 vs Bomber 2-1 vs Curious 2-1 vs JYP 1-2 vs MKP 0-2 vs Jjakji 0-2 vs Life 1-2 vs Inori 1-2 vs Polt 4-2 vs Polt 0-1 vs Alive 0-2 vs Polt 2-0 vs Zenio 1-4 vs Polt 3-0 vs puma 2-0 vs TypeReal (not even sure who this, but he has a Korean flag) 2-0 vs Inori 2-0 vs Hyun 3-2 vs Violet 3-2 vs Polt 0-2 vs MKP 0-2 vs MC (lolol) 0-2 vs Sound
32-36. I accidently counted the Dream games wrong. Where the fuck are you getting 28-26 from?
And how the fuck are you not going to count GSL games? What a bullshit excuse. It seems the only way you can make an arguement is by cherrypicking results or falsifying stats.
Don't feed the trolls, or argue with mindless fanboys. Fact remains that Stephano has done (basically) nothing against top Koreans, and MC has. Maybe Stephano will start playing them more, and will be able to prove himself, but until he does that, it's impossible to say that Stephano is better than someone like MC (or any other top Korean).
Stephano have done nothing against top koreans ? lol watch IPL 4 and thats just his latest tournament. You are a clown and when Stephano beats MC you proberly gonna blame it on lag right?
I find it funny you haters never learn
And btw 1Eris1 do you get payed to hate Stephano? Becuase in every thread you always there trying to dismiss his amasing achievements. What exactly have Stephano done to you, Did he steal you girlfriend or something?
On April 28 2012 08:42 dragonborn wrote: stephano is a better player than MC, but MC is more gimmicky.
i hope stephano find a way for beating MC's gimmicky play.
I'm sick and tired of your blind fanboyism. Get out.
who the heck are you and saying "get out" to me?
you should respect my opinions.
You do realize that opinions don't automatically need to be respected, right? As in, simply by virtue of you saying *something*, it doesn't deserve respect. That *something* has to be meaningful and make sense and the argument has to be properly defended.
And quite frankly, in no way is Stephano better than MC.
Stephano top foreigner? Sure.
But MC has achieved more big wins (especially GSL), made more money, and (most importantly, in this specific context) he's way ahead of Stephano in the head-to-head matches.
Might Stephano win? Possibly. Maybe he's been working on something special that'll work. It certainly hasn't in the past. However, you have no justification to say that Stephano is actually better than MC, or even that he's favored against MC, which is why your opinion won't be respected.
But by all means, root for him! That's what fans do Many people are fans of Stephano, and many people just like to root for the underdog in general. Go for it! But don't blatantly lie.
Stop all the damn fighting. Me being an MC fan for a pretty long time I would usually say MC is going to win but that's no the case. Just because MC has better accomplishments over Stephano means nothing. Seriously It could go wither due to anything. I would still say that MC wins this one still because PvZ is the only match-up he's consistent in but there could be an upset. There has always been upsets everywhere. I say MC gets this 5-2 but Stephano could take this 5-4.
The stephano haters and fan boys are both hella annoying, Stephano isn't the best player in the world but he's up there and to deny that is just foolish.
On April 28 2012 08:22 jianming wrote: Ok Stephano fanboys... Please tell me 5 Code S players Stephano has beaten in his career, to justify this "better than 2 time GSL champion and all time money list leader."
He beat Curious in IPL4. DRG in Blizzard Cup.
Any more?
Did he beat Polt (the Code A guy who only got into Code S because of a seed) when he was in Code S?
We want to see if the games were closed or one sided, the reuslt does not matter really matter. It's a good training for Stephano before his flight to Korea at least.
On April 28 2012 06:09 emis wrote: It's kinda sad seeing people preemptively make excuses about cross-server lag. Koreans have really good internet, top teams shouldn't have a problem playing on foreign servers.
I guess it's another good reason to say "Stephano doesn't legitimately beat Code S players", should he win the showmatch, even though he's proved it wrong on multiple occasions.
It's not being used as an excuse for MC theoretically losing in most cases. People, me included, feel that lag ruins the legitimacy of anyone's win because it's just not proper conditions to be playing the game.
You could make both players play with their feet if you wanted and sure they'd both have an even playing feel but it wouldn't be a proper game.
Just listen to the pundits on SOTG when they talked about TSL4 and they mentioned it as well on the show before that. Cross server games are just bad for everyone, players and spectators regardless of who wins.
And you should stop denying that lag exists. I get 250ms connecting to NA from EU and I have good internet and am in western Europe. You can't play the game properly with 250ms.
I'm not denying the lag, I just don't think it's game changing. See my edited post.
EDIT: And I'm playing on NA from Estonia with a shitty connection. I don't get any lag whatsoever.
If you don't think it's gamechanging then you just don't know what you're talking about. Imagine you're trying to split marines against banelings or land crucial forcefields with a small amount of delay. I've seen people like you with your "I just don't think it's a big deal" mentality, and they only stopped arguing once IdrA himself came into the thread and said that cross-server games are meaningless due to the lag. People like to say, "Well, it doesn't affect macro", but, yes, it does - it affects all aspects of someone's play. When you're a pro and you're trying to do everything to near perfection and you're used to playing with really good latency, lag simply throws you off.
I'm excited for this match just because of the names, but take the results with a massive grain of salt.
It's not like IdrA is the person to be taken most seriously when it comes to complaining.
Besides, the games are most likely played on NA, which should theoretically be better for MC than for Stephano. Isn't ping directly affected by distance of servers?
On April 28 2012 06:09 emis wrote: It's kinda sad seeing people preemptively make excuses about cross-server lag. Koreans have really good internet, top teams shouldn't have a problem playing on foreign servers.
I guess it's another good reason to say "Stephano doesn't legitimately beat Code S players", should he win the showmatch, even though he's proved it wrong on multiple occasions.
It's not being used as an excuse for MC theoretically losing in most cases. People, me included, feel that lag ruins the legitimacy of anyone's win because it's just not proper conditions to be playing the game.
You could make both players play with their feet if you wanted and sure they'd both have an even playing feel but it wouldn't be a proper game.
Just listen to the pundits on SOTG when they talked about TSL4 and they mentioned it as well on the show before that. Cross server games are just bad for everyone, players and spectators regardless of who wins.
And you should stop denying that lag exists. I get 250ms connecting to NA from EU and I have good internet and am in western Europe. You can't play the game properly with 250ms.
I'm not denying the lag, I just don't think it's game changing. See my edited post.
EDIT: And I'm playing on NA from Estonia with a shitty connection. I don't get any lag whatsoever.
If you don't think it's gamechanging then you just don't know what you're talking about. Imagine you're trying to split marines against banelings or land crucial forcefields with a small amount of delay. I've seen people like you with your "I just don't think it's a big deal" mentality, and they only stopped arguing once IdrA himself came into the thread and said that cross-server games are meaningless due to the lag. People like to say, "Well, it doesn't affect macro", but, yes, it does - it affects all aspects of someone's play. When you're a pro and you're trying to do everything to near perfection and you're used to playing with really good latency, lag simply throws you off.
I'm excited for this match just because of the names, but take the results with a massive grain of salt.
It's not like IdrA is the person to be taken most seriously when it comes to complaining.
Besides, the games are most likely played on NA, which should theoretically be better for MC than for Stephano. Isn't ping directly affected by distance of servers?
Firstly, what you're doing is called a genetic fallacy, I think.
Idra may be known for complaining but he's also a progamer who practices a shitload, who understands the impact high lag has on one's play when one is used to playing in ideal, very low latency setting.
Also, Zerg benefits the most from an environment where both players are laggy because it requires the least micro. This doesn't mean that Zerg is easy - it's just that in terms of macro vs. micro, macro is the most unforgiving and difficult for Zerg out of all the races and thus a ton more emphasis is placed on macro than micro. Zerg micro is definitely important, but I'd argue that it's the least important out of all races while the macro is the most important - you just have to hit those injects. Macro is less affected by lag than micro - thus, Zerg is hurt by lag the least. For example, LosirA said he chose Zerg so he wouldn't have to micro as much, and when Nerchio played Jjakji in IPL Fight Club, Nerchio agreed that laggy environments favor Zerg in ZvT; the same can be said of ZvP due to how important quick and accurate forcefields along with blink micro are.
I don't see why it's so hard to accept that cross-server games should be taken with a massive grain of salt. Why can't people just enjoy matches and realize that they don't mean much since the conditions aren't ideal?
I dont understand why someone gets so much hate just because he things Stephano is able to win?!
You can't always look at statistics and say: this guy'll definitly win!
I've just compared what I saw from those 2 player recently, and my thoughts are that Stephano could win. Maybe I predicted it correctly or wrong - only the showmatch will give me the answer, not any statistics ;-)
On April 28 2012 13:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: But MC has achieved more big wins (especially GSL), made more money, and (most importantly, in this specific context) he's way ahead of Stephano in the head-to-head matches.
And none of those things have any effect whatsoever on the outcome of any of the following matches they play or indeed on how good they are relative to one another currently.
Unfortunately, Stephano practices a lot against Bling, and win pretty much all the games, that won't help him against MC. He doesn't have a practice partner who is near MC's level of PvZ, so even as a Stephano fan, MC will win.
When Stephano will be able to practice in Korea, i will have a different opinion.
MC is going to show Stephano what real PvZ is, he'll wreck him. I like stephano (sometimes when he shows up) but MC is to freaking good he is like 30-2 vs Z in 2012, Stephano won't beat him.
Both haters and fanboys are just freaking annoying in here ! i just can't understand how you guys continue arguing against each others since both of you are highly biased on the subject. Couldn't we try to be more objective in here please ?
Fact are that MC is a more accomplished player than Stephano Fact is that both of them are great players Fact is that Stephano just never won a single map against MC (discounting the one where MC picked accidentally random) Fact is that Stephano has very spectacular syle, which is very fun to watch
Those facts make this match even more exciting, and i can't wait to see it.
Personnally, i love Stephano's play 'cause he's so fucking good and fun to watch (i don't think i like his personality though) so i'll pick him for this ! But MC is awesome too and noone should try to deny this
On April 28 2012 19:59 watchman wrote: Both haters and fanboys are just freaking annoying in here ! i just can't understand how you guys continue arguing against each others since both of you are highly biased on the subject. Couldn't we try to be more objective in here please ?
Fact are that MC is a more accomplished player than Stephano Fact is that both of them are great players Fact is that Stephano just never won a single map against MC (discounting the one where MC picked accidentally random) Fact is that Stephano has very spectacular syle, which is very fun to watch
Those facts make this match even more exciting, and i can't wait to see it.
Personnally, i love Stephano's play 'cause he's so fucking good and fun to watch (i don't think i like his personality though) so i'll pick him for this ! But MC is awesome too and noone should try to deny this
Being named watchman gives you an automatic bonus to objectivity ? That's neat :D
I can see the future, so I can announce MC 5 - 3 Stephano, i.e. close match, showing how good Stephano ZvP is, but showing how a PvZ beast MC is. Stephano's play is a bit shaky atm, he comes back from a long holidays break, and MC is MC, the only protoss Stephano never managed to take a map from. So even if I know Stephano prepared a lot for this match (check his twitter ), I'd favor MC, but not by much.
On April 28 2012 19:59 watchman wrote: Both haters and fanboys are just freaking annoying in here ! i just can't understand how you guys continue arguing against each others since both of you are highly biased on the subject. Couldn't we try to be more objective in here please ?
Fact are that MC is a more accomplished player than Stephano Fact is that both of them are great players Fact is that Stephano just never won a single map against MC (discounting the one where MC picked accidentally random) Fact is that Stephano has very spectacular syle, which is very fun to watch
Those facts make this match even more exciting, and i can't wait to see it.
Personnally, i love Stephano's play 'cause he's so fucking good and fun to watch (i don't think i like his personality though) so i'll pick him for this ! But MC is awesome too and noone should try to deny this
Being named watchman gives you an automatic bonus to objectivity ? That's neat :D
Not at all, i'm just a "Watchmen movie" fan Don't you think i was bringing some objectivity here ?
finally stephano plays a protoss whos really strong at PvZ (ok jyp is not bad at all) I really hope the games are gonna be good, I think there will be much to learn from this series
On April 28 2012 19:59 watchman wrote: Both haters and fanboys are just freaking annoying in here ! i just can't understand how you guys continue arguing against each others since both of you are highly biased on the subject. Couldn't we try to be more objective in here please ?
Fact are that MC is a more accomplished player than Stephano Fact is that both of them are great players Fact is that Stephano just never won a single map against MC (discounting the one where MC picked accidentally random) Fact is that Stephano has very spectacular syle, which is very fun to watch
Those facts make this match even more exciting, and i can't wait to see it.
Personnally, i love Stephano's play 'cause he's so fucking good and fun to watch (i don't think i like his personality though) so i'll pick him for this ! But MC is awesome too and noone should try to deny this
Being named watchman gives you an automatic bonus to objectivity ? That's neat :D
Not at all, i'm just a "Watchmen movie" fan Don't you think i was bringing some objectivity here ?
What I think isn't very relevant to what you wrote. ^^ Your effort to accommodate everyone and see the better side of each player should be praised, no matter how objective you were. Besides I'm not really in a position to judge someone's objectivity. I just found the situation amusing.
On April 28 2012 20:22 Ylrahc wrote: I can see the future, so I can announce MC 5 - 3 Stephano, i.e. close match, showing how good Stephano ZvP is, but showing how a PvZ beast MC is. Stephano's play is a bit shaky atm, he comes back from a long holidays break, and MC is MC, the only protoss Stephano never managed to take a map from. So even if I know Stephano prepared a lot for this match (check his twitter ), I'd favor MC, but not by much.
both players very good in this matchup, so its hard to call.
im a big stephano fan, but ill still give the edge to mc because of their history, and because of mcs pvz record in 2012. still gonna be close games though, id say 5-4 or 5-3 in favor of mc.
I would have said Stephano 5:3, but after his 10 day or so hiatus following IPL4 Stephano hasn't looked in top form on stream and has lost to a bunch of random builds against Protoss (who finally seem to be adapting to his style). If MC just tries to two base all in and FFE against Stephano, Stephano will win. Stephano is 6-1 against JYP and JYP is better at the match up than MC. (This will be hard for most people to believe since they're much more familiar with MC but the stats don't lie. Look at the MC's and JYP's Elo's and match history in Korea. I'm aware that MC is 5-0 against Stephano but Stephano has as much as is humanly possible perfected his build against FFE, and 2 of those losses came nearly a year ago and 2 came when Stephano was badly hungover.)
On April 28 2012 07:14 JohnMatrix wrote: MC is the best PvZ player in the world along with Squirtle. Its going to be tough for Stephano
This is not at all the case. Squirtle, JYP, Hero, Oz, etc. are all statistically (and in actuality) better than MC at the matchup. (Look at their Korean vZ Elo's -- MC is simply not as good as everyone credits him.) MC is good at international events and has beaten Idra a bunch (and is famous); thus I'm assuming this is what accounts for everyone's thinking he's such a terror at the match up -- and don't get me wrong; he's good, he's beaten Stephano int he past, etc. but it's well within Stephano's power to beat MC convincingly. Because of Stephano's layoff (as I mention above) I'm not sure it will happen but Stephano's vP is assuming equal readiness better than MC's vZ. Perhaps MC can physche out Stephano has he has other foreign zerg, but assuming Stephano keeps a level head, I think this is a very close match.
On April 28 2012 09:15 Bagration wrote: MC wins. He crushed Violet last week so convincingly I have to give him the advantage. But this will be a great series.
On April 28 2012 07:14 JohnMatrix wrote: MC is the best PvZ player in the world along with Squirtle. Its going to be tough for Stephano
This is not at all the case. Squirtle, JYP, Hero, Oz, etc. are all statistically (and in actuality) better than MC at the matchup. (Look at their Korean vZ Elo's -- MC is simply not as good as everyone credits him.) MC is good at international events and has beaten Idra a bunch (and is famous); thus I'm assuming this is what accounts for everyone's thinking he's such a terror at the match up -- and don't get me wrong; he's good, he's beaten Stephano int he past, etc. but it's well within Stephano's power to beat MC convincingly. Because of Stephano's layoff (as I mention above) I'm not sure it will happen but Stephano's vP is assuming equal readiness better than MC's vZ. Perhaps MC can physche out Stephano has he has other foreign zerg, but assuming Stephano keeps a level head, I think this is a very close match.
That is because you're looking at TLPD and considering every single match he's played. At one time PvZ was MC's worst matchup by far, but on 2012, he's only lost 2 series vs zerg and has defeated every single top zerg. Actually, I think that until he lost to viOlet, he hadn't lost a single game against a top zerg.
This year, MC has had the best PvZ in the world
Edit: He lost a game vs crazymoving, and one vs leenock, he hadn't lost any other vZ game until his loss to violet.
I really don't see MC losing this. Stephano is definitely the best ZvP player imo but I think that MC has shown that he knows how to specifically puncture Stephano's play style even if he is not the best PvZ player overall.
That being said I will not be shocked at all if Stephano does win unless he dominates MC.
On April 29 2012 05:12 Nothingtosay wrote: I really don't see MC losing this. Stephano is definitely the best foreigner ZvP player imo but I think that MC has shown that he knows how to specifically puncture Stephano's play style even if he is not the best PvZ player overall.
That being said I will not be shocked at all if Stephano does win unless he dominates MC.
On April 29 2012 05:12 Nothingtosay wrote: I really don't see MC losing this. Stephano is definitely the best foreigner ZvP player imo but I think that MC has shown that he knows how to specifically puncture Stephano's play style even if he is not the best PvZ player overall.
That being said I will not be shocked at all if Stephano does win unless he dominates MC.
On April 29 2012 05:12 Nothingtosay wrote: I really don't see MC losing this. Stephano is definitely the best foreigner ZvP player imo but I think that MC has shown that he knows how to specifically puncture Stephano's play style even if he is not the best PvZ player overall.
That being said I will not be shocked at all if Stephano does win unless he dominates MC.
On April 29 2012 05:12 Nothingtosay wrote: I really don't see MC losing this. Stephano is definitely the best foreigner ZvP player imo but I think that MC has shown that he knows how to specifically puncture Stephano's play style even if he is not the best PvZ player overall.
That being said I will not be shocked at all if Stephano does win unless he dominates MC.
Fixed that for you
he dont need to your fix.
stephano is the best ZvPer.
I respectfully disagree with you that Stephano is the best ZvP player, because his stats are inflated due to numerous wins over foreign Protoss and the fact that he hasn't had that large of a tournament record against top Protosses. He's very good at ZvP, probably top 10 worldwide, but I hesitate to call him the best.
On April 29 2012 05:12 Nothingtosay wrote: I really don't see MC losing this. Stephano is definitely the best foreigner ZvP player imo but I think that MC has shown that he knows how to specifically puncture Stephano's play style even if he is not the best PvZ player overall.
That being said I will not be shocked at all if Stephano does win unless he dominates MC.
Fixed that for you
he dont need to your fix.
stephano is the best ZvPer.
No, the best ZvPer is DRG. Not even close.
DRG is the best ZvPer but Stephano is right behind.
Violet, Nestea, Leenock, Losira, Lucky, Curious, etc. are his peers.
Can't we just enjoy the games and not argue about which player has achieved what? Why always the hate towards certain players? It makes me very sad to read these kind of threads before a showmatch/tournament.
On April 29 2012 07:19 Firlefanz wrote: Can't we just enjoy the games and not argue about which player has achieved what? Why always the hate towards certain players? It makes me very sad to read these kind of threads before a showmatch/tournament.
I really hope you never go to a forum for a mainstream sport before a game if you don't like people comparing what has been done in the past.
On April 29 2012 07:19 Firlefanz wrote: Can't we just enjoy the games and not argue about which player has achieved what? Why always the hate towards certain players? It makes me very sad to read these kind of threads before a showmatch/tournament.
I really hope you never go to a forum for a mainstream sport before a game if you don't like people comparing what has been done in the past.
What i really dislike is the aggressive behaviour some people show in these threads. It looks like some people see it as a personal attack if someone is not sharing the same opinion as them.
Anyways i'm not fluent enough in english to describe my point of view properly - still hoping for entertaining and close games.
On April 29 2012 07:19 Firlefanz wrote: Can't we just enjoy the games and not argue about which player has achieved what? Why always the hate towards certain players? It makes me very sad to read these kind of threads before a showmatch/tournament.
I really hope you never go to a forum for a mainstream sport before a game if you don't like people comparing what has been done in the past.
What i really dislike is the aggressive behaviour some people show in these threads. It looks like some people see it as a personal attack if someone is not sharing the same opinion as them.
Anyways i'm not fluent enough in english to describe my point of view properly - still hoping for entertaining and close games.
lol welcome to the internet. this "aggressive behavior" in this thread is nothing compared to the major tourney LRs like IPL4, MLG, DH.
On April 29 2012 07:19 Firlefanz wrote: Can't we just enjoy the games and not argue about which player has achieved what? Why always the hate towards certain players? It makes me very sad to read these kind of threads before a showmatch/tournament.
I really hope you never go to a forum for a mainstream sport before a game if you don't like people comparing what has been done in the past.
What i really dislike is the aggressive behaviour some people show in these threads. It looks like some people see it as a personal attack if someone is not sharing the same opinion as them.
Anyways i'm not fluent enough in english to describe my point of view properly - still hoping for entertaining and close games.
lol welcome to the internet. this "aggressive behavior" in this thread is nothing compared to the major tourney LRs like IPL4, MLG, DH.
No it's not, it's VERY AGGRESSIVE in here. Are you not sharing the same opinion as me? Get a life and #$@ your #$%@#%@##@#$
On April 29 2012 07:49 Havik_ wrote: This is the DREAM matchup I wanted to see. I can't wait to see how MC plays against the 12 minute Roach Max style.
MCfield have no fear of roaches.. No matter how many or fast.
Hm, I wonder if the VODs will be up as the match finishes, or they do it manually... does anyone know? (I'd like to go to sleep and watch the vods when i wake up - don't wanna wait EU rebroadcast)
I'd like Stephano to win after MC gives his best games, but I think the poll should heavily favor MC. Seems like people are voting with their hearts, Stephano is unproven, his big successes (games vs formidable opponents) can be counted on the fingers.
On April 29 2012 08:38 niteReloaded wrote: I'd like Stephano to win after MC gives his best games, but I think the poll should heavily favor MC. Seems like people are voting with their hearts, Stephano is unproven, his big successes (games vs formidable opponents) can be counted on the fingers.
In the past month alone he's taken games off Thorzin, Whitera, Curious, JYP, and Bomber, and also going 1-2 vs MKP and Nestea is still pretty impressive despite the fact that he did lose those games. He may not be as proven as MC, but I definately wouldn't go so far to claim that MC is heavily favored in this MU, I'd say he has a pretty damn good chance of taking it.
On April 29 2012 08:38 niteReloaded wrote: I'd like Stephano to win after MC gives his best games, but I think the poll should heavily favor MC. Seems like people are voting with their hearts, Stephano is unproven, his big successes (games vs formidable opponents) can be counted on the fingers.
In the past month alone he's taken games off Thorzin, Whitera, Curious, JYP, and Bomber, and also going 1-2 vs MKP and Nestea is still pretty impressive despite the fact that he did lose those games. He may not be as proven as MC, but I definately wouldn't go so far to claim that MC is heavily favored in this MU, I'd say he has a pretty damn good chance of taking it.
You shouldn't mention Thorzain and White-Ra. As great as they are in the foreigner world, they're even more unproven on the global scale.
Also, Stephano's victories vs Koreans were mostly in BO3s and some BO5s. This is a BO9 so a lot of the mind games etc will be reduced, and the mechanical skill and just pure solid SC2 skill should come out on top. I don't see a Korean beast like MC who practices like he does losing this... Hats off to Stephano if he manages to win, I'd certainly be even more impressed by the guy.
On April 29 2012 08:38 niteReloaded wrote: I'd like Stephano to win after MC gives his best games, but I think the poll should heavily favor MC. Seems like people are voting with their hearts, Stephano is unproven, his big successes (games vs formidable opponents) can be counted on the fingers.
In the past month alone he's taken games off Thorzin, Whitera, Curious, JYP, and Bomber, and also going 1-2 vs MKP and Nestea is still pretty impressive despite the fact that he did lose those games. He may not be as proven as MC, but I definately wouldn't go so far to claim that MC is heavily favored in this MU, I'd say he has a pretty damn good chance of taking it.
You shouldn't mention Thorzain and White-Ra. As great as they are in the foreigner world, they're even more unproven on the global scale.
Okay, Whitera has been in a bit up of a slump lately .. But Thorzain could be definately be considered a code S quality player
Stephano is not doing his roach smush build, its been a while since I've seen him majorly deviate. I cant help feeling that MC got crazy lucky with that pylon though.
On April 29 2012 09:10 MCDayC wrote: Stephano is not doing his roach smush build, its been a while since I've seen him majorly deviate. I cant help feeling that MC got crazy lucky with that pylon though.
I don't think that style would work against a player like MC.
On April 29 2012 09:10 MCDayC wrote: Stephano is not doing his roach smush build, its been a while since I've seen him majorly deviate. I cant help feeling that MC got crazy lucky with that pylon though.
I don't think that style would work against a player like MC.
On April 29 2012 09:11 ChowChillaCharlie wrote: Alright, stupid question, but I can't for the life of me find the full screen button =X Anyone mind telling me where it's at?
Click on the video so it opens in justin tv, then maximize
On April 29 2012 09:11 ChowChillaCharlie wrote: Alright, stupid question, but I can't for the life of me find the full screen button =X Anyone mind telling me where it's at?
Click on it so it opens in justin tv, then maximize
On April 29 2012 09:21 GhandiEAGLE wrote: This is the final test for Stephano. Winning this would silence half of Stephano's haters. You can do it, pal!
haters are saving their trump card, i.e korean lag
MC's positional vortex proved costly in that final battle. To be fair 22 Broodlords is quite a scary force. MC did well to use feeback on those infestors. Stephano just responded by immediately building 12 more infestors!
Stephano was way too ahead for 15 infestors dying instantly to matter. MC had to land an absolutely killer vortex to win against 20+ brood lords when his army was 4-5 archons a couple of HTs and the rest in stalkers and colossi. MC had to transition into another composition to beat that head on. Two base play next game?
On April 29 2012 09:27 BuzZoo wrote: People saying that was an awful game??? Really???
lol it was really bad.. endless posturing with no engagement. I hate it when sc2 games play out like this, when there's zero harassment and no splitting of armies, then a 5 second battle to close the 15 minute stalemate.
On April 29 2012 09:25 Aocowns wrote: Oh c',mon, MC... That was fucking retarded. Threw the game because he was arrogant... God damn it, MC
Don't know if he would have won with that extra vortex (stephano splits BLs as well as anyone), but it certainly could not have hurt.
Not attacking after killing all those infestors was pretty bad too...There was nothing to keep his stalkers from blinking under the Blord cloud >_< And yeah, another vortex could've turned the game if Stephano just messs up for a second
If MC had saved that vortex he used on that 1 brood lord, he may have been able to win that. Idk that's just my opinion. Though he did lack a lot of archons that's needed for the toilet.
On April 29 2012 09:27 BuzZoo wrote: People saying that was an awful game??? Really???
lol it was really bad.. endless posturing with no engagement. I hate it when sc2 games play out like this, when there's zero harassment and no splitting of armies, then a 5 second battle to close the 15 minute stalemate.
this exactly, i hate macro games where the players sit around and don't do jack shit 3/4 of the game.. i can do that in my plat league just fine and don't need to watch a progame doing the exact same shit.
On April 29 2012 09:27 BuzZoo wrote: People saying that was an awful game??? Really???
lol it was really bad.. endless posturing with no engagement. I hate it when sc2 games play out like this, when there's zero harassment and no splitting of armies, then a 5 second battle to close the 15 minute stalemate.
Just because the observers missed it doesn't mean it never happened. There was plenty of harass that game
On April 29 2012 09:27 BuzZoo wrote: People saying that was an awful game??? Really???
lol it was really bad.. endless posturing with no engagement. I hate it when sc2 games play out like this, when there's zero harassment and no splitting of armies, then a 5 second battle to close the 15 minute stalemate.
this exactly, i hate macro games where the players sit around and don't do jack shit 3/4 of the game.. i can do that in my plat league just fine and don't need to watch a progame doing the exact same shit.
On April 29 2012 09:27 BuzZoo wrote: People saying that was an awful game??? Really???
lol it was really bad.. endless posturing with no engagement. I hate it when sc2 games play out like this, when there's zero harassment and no splitting of armies, then a 5 second battle to close the 15 minute stalemate.
this exactly, i hate macro games where the players sit around and don't do jack shit 3/4 of the game.. i can do that in my plat league just fine and don't need to watch a progame doing the exact same shit.
this is so ignorant
LOL orly? nice of you to expand upon that. How am i so ignorant? its fucking boring to watch a long ass macro game like that
On April 29 2012 09:27 BuzZoo wrote: People saying that was an awful game??? Really???
lol it was really bad.. endless posturing with no engagement. I hate it when sc2 games play out like this, when there's zero harassment and no splitting of armies, then a 5 second battle to close the 15 minute stalemate.
Just because the observers missed it doesn't mean it never happened. There was plenty of harass that game
MC half assedly sending 5 zealots to stephano's fifth and one ling runby? That's not exactly "action packed" for a game that long. The map is a little bit at fault though.
On April 29 2012 09:27 BuzZoo wrote: People saying that was an awful game??? Really???
lol it was really bad.. endless posturing with no engagement. I hate it when sc2 games play out like this, when there's zero harassment and no splitting of armies, then a 5 second battle to close the 15 minute stalemate.
this exactly, i hate macro games where the players sit around and don't do jack shit 3/4 of the game.. i can do that in my plat league just fine and don't need to watch a progame doing the exact same shit.
this is so ignorant
Yeah, not even worth arguing with those kind of people I guess
On April 29 2012 09:27 BuzZoo wrote: People saying that was an awful game??? Really???
lol it was really bad.. endless posturing with no engagement. I hate it when sc2 games play out like this, when there's zero harassment and no splitting of armies, then a 5 second battle to close the 15 minute stalemate.
There was tons of shit Stephano running lings into MC's main/natural MC getting off like 10 feedbacks on the infestors, allowing him to kill Stephano's 5th The constant fighting at the fourth
And don't say positional based games are bad, because it was beautiful. That's where I want SC2 to go.
On April 29 2012 09:27 BuzZoo wrote: People saying that was an awful game??? Really???
lol it was really bad.. endless posturing with no engagement. I hate it when sc2 games play out like this, when there's zero harassment and no splitting of armies, then a 5 second battle to close the 15 minute stalemate.
Just because the observers missed it doesn't mean it never happened. There was plenty of harass that game
4 lings getting into the main for 3 seconds doesn't count as harass
On April 29 2012 09:28 niteReloaded wrote: Did MC play bad or did Stephano make him look bad? I don't watch sc2 regularly enough...
There was some sloppy moves from both sides (the infestors being feedbacked, the vortex on a single broodlord, even if it was positional was a mistake) imo. I would not say they played bad overall tho, just a little sloppily.
In that late game Toss have to start taxing the multitasking of Zerg. The Stalker contingent at the top was good, but storm drops, immortals/zealots to snipe tech structures, using the mothership to recall units etc are a necessity, otherwise BL Infestor will just roll you.
On April 29 2012 09:30 obesemk wrote: Stephano showing he is the better player.
The second that MC wins a game (regardless of how many Stephano's won beforehand), I hope the thread gets flooded with "MC showing he is the better player" just to balance the blatant Stephano fanboyism with actual common sense (see OP's poll).
On April 29 2012 09:27 BuzZoo wrote: People saying that was an awful game??? Really???
lol it was really bad.. endless posturing with no engagement. I hate it when sc2 games play out like this, when there's zero harassment and no splitting of armies, then a 5 second battle to close the 15 minute stalemate.
this exactly, i hate macro games where the players sit around and don't do jack shit 3/4 of the game.. i can do that in my plat league just fine and don't need to watch a progame doing the exact same shit.
this is so ignorant
LOL orly? nice of you to expand upon that. How am i so ignorant? its fucking boring to watch a long ass macro game like that
You compared your plat league games to what we just watched, you clearly have no understanding of SC2.
On April 29 2012 09:33 MCDayC wrote: In that late game Toss have to start taxing the multitasking of Zerg. The Stalker contingent at the top was good, but storm drops, immortals/zealots to snipe tech structures, using the mothership to recall units etc are a necessity, otherwise BL Infestor will just roll you.
this is what i meant why i didn't like this game as much. Multitasking is the way of the future for sc2 which honestly did not happen as much as it should have in the first game in such a late game situation.
On April 29 2012 09:27 BuzZoo wrote: People saying that was an awful game??? Really???
lol it was really bad.. endless posturing with no engagement. I hate it when sc2 games play out like this, when there's zero harassment and no splitting of armies, then a 5 second battle to close the 15 minute stalemate.
There was tons of shit Stephano running lings into MC's main/natural MC getting off like 10 feedbacks on the infestors, allowing him to kill Stephano's 5th The constant fighting at the fourth
And don't say positional based games are bad, because it was beautiful. That's where I want SC2 to go.
I don't mind it when position is a big component of the game. I've seen some TvT lately that were very similar to BW TvT. It's amazing to watch because there's a lot of little battles and multitasking going on at the same time. In PvZ late game it's almost as if there's no incentive to harass beyond a zealot warp in or sometimes the single warp prism in the late game. Either that or the players don't have enough imagination. In brood war you don't have to keep your armies clumped up in the same way as sc2 PvZ.
I guess I just find it very frustrating to watch when a game starts slowing down rather than becoming more intense the longer it goes by.
On April 29 2012 09:27 BuzZoo wrote: People saying that was an awful game??? Really???
lol it was really bad.. endless posturing with no engagement. I hate it when sc2 games play out like this, when there's zero harassment and no splitting of armies, then a 5 second battle to close the 15 minute stalemate.
this exactly, i hate macro games where the players sit around and don't do jack shit 3/4 of the game.. i can do that in my plat league just fine and don't need to watch a progame doing the exact same shit.
this is so ignorant
LOL orly? nice of you to expand upon that. How am i so ignorant? its fucking boring to watch a long ass macro game like that
You compared your plat league games to what we just watched, you clearly have no understanding of SC2.
orly? how would you know what my sc2 understanding is? you dont. Not to mention apparently hyperbole is past your grasp of understanding..
On April 29 2012 09:27 BuzZoo wrote: People saying that was an awful game??? Really???
lol it was really bad.. endless posturing with no engagement. I hate it when sc2 games play out like this, when there's zero harassment and no splitting of armies, then a 5 second battle to close the 15 minute stalemate.
this exactly, i hate macro games where the players sit around and don't do jack shit 3/4 of the game.. i can do that in my plat league just fine and don't need to watch a progame doing the exact same shit.
this is so ignorant
LOL orly? nice of you to expand upon that. How am i so ignorant? its fucking boring to watch a long ass macro game like that
You compared your plat league games to what we just watched, you clearly have no understanding of SC2.
It was a pretty sloppy game with terrible vortexes, the zealot not on hold-position allowing a run-by, and the infestors all sitting at the watchtower getting feedbacked. The harass was mostly moving a few stalkers or lings into bases, not much multitasking/micro. Both players have played much better.
What utter trash observing. IPL needs to turn on healthbars because whoever is observing is godawful and needs to learn how to bserve.
Having a mass voidray build and having NO IDEA how much health they have is ridiculously dumb. Atrocious game. The commentators are bad enough anyway, but when you can't tell what the hell is going on because you are at the mercy of the crappy observer, it makes the whole experience pointless and not worth watching at all.
Wow such beautiful play by MC. I really hate the 12 min max roach play, so am glad mc isn't letting him just drone forever like he likes as stephano is pretty greedy usually, only making units at the last minute.
On April 29 2012 09:27 BuzZoo wrote: People saying that was an awful game??? Really???
lol it was really bad.. endless posturing with no engagement. I hate it when sc2 games play out like this, when there's zero harassment and no splitting of armies, then a 5 second battle to close the 15 minute stalemate.
It probably wasn't the most "entertaining" game for people with low understanding of the game. However, I thougt the game was freaking awesome by mostly watching the production tab. So high level play and awesome game for learning.
On April 29 2012 09:27 BuzZoo wrote: People saying that was an awful game??? Really???
lol it was really bad.. endless posturing with no engagement. I hate it when sc2 games play out like this, when there's zero harassment and no splitting of armies, then a 5 second battle to close the 15 minute stalemate.
It probably wasn't the most "entertaining" game for people with low understanding of the game. However, I thougt the game was freaking awesome by mostly watching the production tab. So high level play and awesome game for learning.
Yes I probably just couldn't comprehend what was happening.
On April 29 2012 09:39 dragonborn wrote: MC realized he cant beat stephano on macro game and back his gimmicky play.
The kind of play that MC is showing right now requires more skill than any other 'macro' builds he can do in this situation
MC is the king of timing attacks, ofc he would do them, its not gimmicky, its smart vs someone who has strong macro play like stephano idk why you would critique that.
On April 29 2012 09:39 dragonborn wrote: MC realized he cant beat stephano on macro game and back his gimmicky play.
I saw MC outsmart and outplay Stephano. Just because Zerg increases supply faster than Protoss doesn't mean that when a Zerg loses to a Protoss, the Protoss didn't deserve it or didn't macro well.
On April 29 2012 09:27 BuzZoo wrote: People saying that was an awful game??? Really???
lol it was really bad.. endless posturing with no engagement. I hate it when sc2 games play out like this, when there's zero harassment and no splitting of armies, then a 5 second battle to close the 15 minute stalemate.
It probably wasn't the most "entertaining" game for people with low understanding of the game. However, I thougt the game was freaking awesome by mostly watching the production tab. So high level play and awesome game for learning.
You thought it was awesome by watching the production tab? Sure don't ask for much.
On April 29 2012 09:27 BuzZoo wrote: People saying that was an awful game??? Really???
lol it was really bad.. endless posturing with no engagement. I hate it when sc2 games play out like this, when there's zero harassment and no splitting of armies, then a 5 second battle to close the 15 minute stalemate.
It probably wasn't the most "entertaining" game for people with low understanding of the game. However, I thougt the game was freaking awesome by mostly watching the production tab. So high level play and awesome game for learning.
Yes I probably just couldn't comprehend what was happening.
if you thought that game was anything below stellar you must have a miniscule knowledge of starcraft...
On April 29 2012 09:27 BuzZoo wrote: People saying that was an awful game??? Really???
lol it was really bad.. endless posturing with no engagement. I hate it when sc2 games play out like this, when there's zero harassment and no splitting of armies, then a 5 second battle to close the 15 minute stalemate.
It probably wasn't the most "entertaining" game for people with low understanding of the game. However, I thougt the game was freaking awesome by mostly watching the production tab. So high level play and awesome game for learning.
Agreed, really well refined builds, Stephano holding the +1 pressure, MC with the very fast third base behind it, quick tech transitions, good decision making. There was a lot to learn from in that game
Roach hydra corrupter vs. Colossus zealot stalker. Stephano needs to ask Idra how that works out for zergs. T_T
Really interesting play by MC to force that composition. You could sense how hesitant Stephano was to go down that tech path. That is probably what forced his hand to attack so early, and that attack was easily beaten before the 1st colossus even came out. Great game
On April 29 2012 09:39 dragonborn wrote: MC realized he cant beat stephano on macro game and back his gimmicky play.
Mc built his career on that, can't really blame him for it.
I see the major complaints from Zergs/Zerg fans being: Toss can only all in and don't want to macro. And then, if a Toss does go macro (which necessitates a Mothership) the tears are "blah Toss can only win with Vortex."
MC is smart. He knows that zerg is unbeatable with the 12 min roach push unless you harass early to stop it from happening. It's something foreign toss don't understand so stephano wins 80% of his zvp against foreigners with mass roach.
On April 29 2012 09:27 BuzZoo wrote: People saying that was an awful game??? Really???
lol it was really bad.. endless posturing with no engagement. I hate it when sc2 games play out like this, when there's zero harassment and no splitting of armies, then a 5 second battle to close the 15 minute stalemate.
It probably wasn't the most "entertaining" game for people with low understanding of the game. However, I thougt the game was freaking awesome by mostly watching the production tab. So high level play and awesome game for learning.
Yes I probably just couldn't comprehend what was happening.
if you thought that game was anything below stellar you must have a miniscule knowledge of starcraft...
On April 29 2012 09:39 dragonborn wrote: MC realized he cant beat stephano on macro game and back his gimmicky play.
Zerg users think SC2 is Farmville and just want to build workers and bases. Anything other than workers and bases is cheese/all-in so you must let Zerg users build how many workers they want before they switch to unit production. It's hard to sit back and build drones and not apply pressure until you have how many workers you want though lol.
On April 29 2012 09:39 dragonborn wrote: MC realized he cant beat stephano on macro game and back his gimmicky play.
Zerg users think SC2 is Farmville and just want to build workers and bases. Anything other than workers and bases is cheese/all-in so you must let Zerg users build how many workers they want before they switch to unit production. It's hard to sit back and build drones and not apply pressure until you have how many workers you want though lol.
Don't argue with him. He's the most pathetic stephano fanboy on the forum.
On April 29 2012 09:43 jnsjr wrote: Roach hydra corrupter vs. Colossus zealot stalker. Stephano needs to ask Idra how that works out for zergs. T_T
Really interesting play by MC to force that composition. You could sense how hesitant Stephano was to go down that tech path. That is probably what forced his hand to attack so early, and that attack was easily beaten before the 1st colossus even came out. Great game
I think Stephano wanted to go mutas, which was perfect, but when MC dropped the main he saw the spire and decided to push it. The corruptors were more panic corruptors than planned corruptors imo =)
On April 29 2012 09:39 dragonborn wrote: MC realized he cant beat stephano on macro game and back his gimmicky play.
Zerg users think SC2 is Farmville and just want to build workers and bases. Anything other than workers and bases is cheese/all-in so you must let Zerg users build how many workers they want before they switch to unit production. It's hard to sit back and build drones and not apply pressure until you have how many workers you want though lol.
Yeah I hate when zerg users complain about that. The 12 min roach push doesn't take much skill and anyone can do it against someone who doesn't harass them.
On April 29 2012 09:43 Canucklehead wrote: MC is smart. He knows that zerg is unbeatable with the 12 min roach push unless you harass early to stop it from happening. It's something foreign toss don't understand so stephano wins 80% of his zvp against foreigners with mass roach.
Yeah, I really like how MC metagames with 17 nexus knowing that stephano is famous for the 12 min roach max and then applies gateway pressure around 7-8min. As a zerg this really makes the roach max hard.
On April 29 2012 09:39 dragonborn wrote: MC realized he cant beat stephano on macro game and back his gimmicky play.
Zerg users think SC2 is Farmville and just want to build workers and bases. Anything other than workers and bases is cheese/all-in so you must let Zerg users build how many workers they want before they switch to unit production. It's hard to sit back and build drones and not apply pressure until you have how many workers you want though lol.
I'm a zerg player and I loved that last game, please don't make such ridiculous generalizations about people.
On April 29 2012 09:39 dragonborn wrote: MC realized he cant beat stephano on macro game and back his gimmicky play.
Zerg users think SC2 is Farmville and just want to build workers and bases. Anything other than workers and bases is cheese/all-in so you must let Zerg users build how many workers they want before they switch to unit production. It's hard to sit back and build drones and not apply pressure until you have how many workers you want though lol.
On April 29 2012 09:27 BuzZoo wrote: People saying that was an awful game??? Really???
lol it was really bad.. endless posturing with no engagement. I hate it when sc2 games play out like this, when there's zero harassment and no splitting of armies, then a 5 second battle to close the 15 minute stalemate.
It probably wasn't the most "entertaining" game for people with low understanding of the game. However, I thougt the game was freaking awesome by mostly watching the production tab. So high level play and awesome game for learning.
Yes I probably just couldn't comprehend what was happening.
if you thought that game was anything below stellar you must have a miniscule knowledge of starcraft...
*sigh* i guess the since BW is dieing sc2 fans can turn on their elitist switch apparently.. you also have no clue what the other players understanding of the game.
Personally it was an avg GM level PvT late game i was watching that i can watch on the live stream tab... I am not saying the game was awful but it certainly wasn't mindblowingly amazing as all these people keep claiming.
On April 29 2012 09:43 Canucklehead wrote: MC is smart. He knows that zerg is unbeatable with the 12 min roach push unless you harass early to stop it from happening. It's something foreign toss don't understand so stephano wins 80% of his zvp against foreigners with mass roach.
On April 29 2012 09:39 dragonborn wrote: MC realized he cant beat stephano on macro game and back his gimmicky play.
Zerg users think SC2 is Farmville and just want to build workers and bases. Anything other than workers and bases is cheese/all-in so you must let Zerg users build how many workers they want before they switch to unit production. It's hard to sit back and build drones and not apply pressure until you have how many workers you want though lol.
Don't argue with him. He's the most pathetic stephano fanboy on the forum.
On April 29 2012 09:39 dragonborn wrote: MC realized he cant beat stephano on macro game and back his gimmicky play.
Zerg users think SC2 is Farmville and just want to build workers and bases. Anything other than workers and bases is cheese/all-in so you must let Zerg users build how many workers they want before they switch to unit production. It's hard to sit back and build drones and not apply pressure until you have how many workers you want though lol.
Don't argue with him. He's the most pathetic stephano fanboy on the forum.
he also diligently hates alive.. i have no idea why.
On April 29 2012 09:39 dragonborn wrote: MC realized he cant beat stephano on macro game and back his gimmicky play.
Zerg users think SC2 is Farmville and just want to build workers and bases. Anything other than workers and bases is cheese/all-in so you must let Zerg users build how many workers they want before they switch to unit production. It's hard to sit back and build drones and not apply pressure until you have how many workers you want though lol.
Don't argue with him. He's the most pathetic stephano fanboy on the forum.
he also diligently hates alive.. i have no idea why.
lol i forgot it was the same guy, it's because MKP lost to him in IPL4.
On April 29 2012 09:27 BuzZoo wrote: People saying that was an awful game??? Really???
lol it was really bad.. endless posturing with no engagement. I hate it when sc2 games play out like this, when there's zero harassment and no splitting of armies, then a 5 second battle to close the 15 minute stalemate.
It probably wasn't the most "entertaining" game for people with low understanding of the game. However, I thougt the game was freaking awesome by mostly watching the production tab. So high level play and awesome game for learning.
Yes I probably just couldn't comprehend what was happening.
if you thought that game was anything below stellar you must have a miniscule knowledge of starcraft...
*sigh* i guess the since BW is dieing sc2 fans can turn on their elitist switch apparently.. you also have no clue what the other players understanding of the game.
Personally it was an avg GM level PvT late game i was watching that i can watch on the live stream tab... I am not saying the game was awful but it certainly wasn't mindblowingly amazing as all these people keep claiming.
And this is how people know you have a low understanding of the game, you don't notice the small things that separate GM players from the top professionals.
Ok I wasn't going to post in this but that game was just too hilarious not to. Stephano had no clue at all as to what to do there, how odd.
To be fair Nestea died to the same thing recently I believe but still, Stephano tried to be way too greedy and never stood a chance. Slow lings are not good units. =P
On April 29 2012 09:27 BuzZoo wrote: People saying that was an awful game??? Really???
lol it was really bad.. endless posturing with no engagement. I hate it when sc2 games play out like this, when there's zero harassment and no splitting of armies, then a 5 second battle to close the 15 minute stalemate.
It probably wasn't the most "entertaining" game for people with low understanding of the game. However, I thougt the game was freaking awesome by mostly watching the production tab. So high level play and awesome game for learning.
Yes I probably just couldn't comprehend what was happening.
if you thought that game was anything below stellar you must have a miniscule knowledge of starcraft...
*sigh* i guess the since BW is dieing sc2 fans can turn on their elitist switch apparently.. you also have no clue what the other players understanding of the game.
Personally it was an avg GM level PvT late game i was watching that i can watch on the live stream tab... I am not saying the game was awful but it certainly wasn't mindblowingly amazing as all these people keep claiming.
And this is how people know you have a low understanding of the game, you don't notice the small things that separate GM players from the top professionals.
My point was that it wasn't the highest level play i've seen.. idk honestly that first game was really fucking sloppy was my point because i do understand the small things that seperate gm from top pros.. want an example? losing 13 fucking infestors is not high lvl play, sorry to burst your bubble.
And this is how people know you have a low understanding of the game, you don't notice the small things that separate GM players from the top professionals.
What are you on about? Just because somebody didn't find a game to be mindblowing doesn't mean they have no understanding of the game. The first game wasn't bad, but just because it's long and drawn out doesn't automatically make it a stellar match.
Yes, they're playing at a high level, but watching players posture for 20 minutes with negligible harassment isn't exactly exciting as a viewer.
On April 29 2012 09:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: MC WOW!!!
Not even a 4gate all-in!
Fuck yeah. That pressure.
It wasn't 4gate but it was an all-in.
Not necessarily. The Stalkers are good since if the battles start going poorly, you can really book it before Speed pops. It's a strong pressure, and you're not committed as a Sentry/Zealot attack or even a 2 gas variation.
For those that were thinking it was pressure. No that was all in. It's a 3 gate because he's makeing almost unanimously stalkers, this is because he saw late/no gas. This build is all in because the protoss cannot afford 4 gates if he's producing stalkers non - stop. 3 Gates takes care of that.
Nowadays, zergs really rely on those FFE's to go quick 3rd to stream shitloads of roaches to win without any micro. Do something different and it gets really amusing.
On April 29 2012 09:27 BuzZoo wrote: People saying that was an awful game??? Really???
lol it was really bad.. endless posturing with no engagement. I hate it when sc2 games play out like this, when there's zero harassment and no splitting of armies, then a 5 second battle to close the 15 minute stalemate.
It probably wasn't the most "entertaining" game for people with low understanding of the game. However, I thougt the game was freaking awesome by mostly watching the production tab. So high level play and awesome game for learning.
Yes I probably just couldn't comprehend what was happening.
if you thought that game was anything below stellar you must have a miniscule knowledge of starcraft...
*sigh* i guess the since BW is dieing sc2 fans can turn on their elitist switch apparently.. you also have no clue what the other players understanding of the game.
Personally it was an avg GM level PvT late game i was watching that i can watch on the live stream tab... I am not saying the game was awful but it certainly wasn't mindblowingly amazing as all these people keep claiming.
Stephano seriously misread that. He thought more zealots were coming, queen/slowling with some spines works against early zealots, but not against stalker pressure. MC saw this mistake and decided to capitalize on it by allining. You can see that by watching the late forward pylon. MC wasn't originally intending to win with that.
Stephano still doesn't know how to handle 3-4 gates off of one base. A lot of Zergs have forgotten how to beat this, but you have to get spines down quickly and get down a roach warren and speed. It's a thin timing back when Protoss were 4-gating during Beta but now the timing is thinner because Protoss have figured out how to micro their stalkers.
On April 29 2012 09:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: MC WOW!!!
Not even a 4gate all-in!
Fuck yeah. That pressure.
It wasn't 4gate but it was an all-in.
That definitely wasn't an all-in. He originally planned to just do pressure, and then he committed more when he saw that he could actually kill Stephano, but if Stephano had ended up holding, MC wouldn't have lost the game (or even been behind, let alone very far behind) because Stephano had lost so much larvae to dead zerglings instead of drones and hypothetical mining time. Stephano had no tech, low drone count, and two bases.
On April 29 2012 09:27 BuzZoo wrote: People saying that was an awful game??? Really???
lol it was really bad.. endless posturing with no engagement. I hate it when sc2 games play out like this, when there's zero harassment and no splitting of armies, then a 5 second battle to close the 15 minute stalemate.
It probably wasn't the most "entertaining" game for people with low understanding of the game. However, I thougt the game was freaking awesome by mostly watching the production tab. So high level play and awesome game for learning.
Yes I probably just couldn't comprehend what was happening.
if you thought that game was anything below stellar you must have a miniscule knowledge of starcraft...
*sigh* i guess the since BW is dieing sc2 fans can turn on their elitist switch apparently.. you also have no clue what the other players understanding of the game.
Personally it was an avg GM level PvT late game i was watching that i can watch on the live stream tab... I am not saying the game was awful but it certainly wasn't mindblowingly amazing as all these people keep claiming.
And this is how people know you have a low understanding of the game, you don't notice the small things that separate GM players from the top professionals.
My point was that it wasn't the highest level play i've seen.. idk honestly that first game was really fucking sloppy was my point because i do understand the small things that seperate gm from top pros.. want an example? losing 13 fucking infestors is not high lvl play, sorry to burst your bubble.
Making HT's and not making them archons, then securing the high ground, finding the infestors and quickly feedbacking them was a great play by MC. Good players make other good players look bad.
On April 29 2012 09:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: MC WOW!!!
Not even a 4gate all-in!
Fuck yeah. That pressure.
It wasn't 4gate but it was an all-in.
That definitely wasn't an all-in. He originally planned to just do pressure, and then he committed more when he saw that he could actually kill Stephano, but if Stephano had ended up holding, MC wouldn't have lost the game (or even been behind, let alone very far behind) because Stephano had lost so much larvae to dead zerglings instead of drones and hypothetical mining time. Stephano had no tech, low drone count, and two bases.
On April 29 2012 09:27 BuzZoo wrote: People saying that was an awful game??? Really???
lol it was really bad.. endless posturing with no engagement. I hate it when sc2 games play out like this, when there's zero harassment and no splitting of armies, then a 5 second battle to close the 15 minute stalemate.
It probably wasn't the most "entertaining" game for people with low understanding of the game. However, I thougt the game was freaking awesome by mostly watching the production tab. So high level play and awesome game for learning.
Yes I probably just couldn't comprehend what was happening.
if you thought that game was anything below stellar you must have a miniscule knowledge of starcraft...
*sigh* i guess the since BW is dieing sc2 fans can turn on their elitist switch apparently.. you also have no clue what the other players understanding of the game.
Personally it was an avg GM level PvT late game i was watching that i can watch on the live stream tab... I am not saying the game was awful but it certainly wasn't mindblowingly amazing as all these people keep claiming.
lol.. go play mario kart, the learning curve is enough for you to understand it
seriously trolls like this shouldn't be posting.. its entirely unconstructive.
On April 29 2012 09:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: MC WOW!!!
Not even a 4gate all-in!
Fuck yeah. That pressure.
It wasn't 4gate but it was an all-in.
Not necessarily. The Stalkers are good since if the battles start going poorly, you can really book it before Speed pops. It's a strong pressure, and you're not committed as a Sentry/Zealot attack or even a 4 gas variation.
I would say he was very committed. If MC wanted to expand, he would have to warp in stuff at home to be able to even get out of his base. Completely walling off is a pretty good indication that MC was not planning on having to expand.
On April 29 2012 09:53 FataLe wrote: For those that were thinking it was pressure. No that was all in. It's a 3 gate because he's makeing almost unanimously stalkers, this is because he saw late/no gas. This build is all in because the protoss cannot afford 4 gates if he's producing stalkers non - stop. 3 Gates takes care of that.
yeah, and to hold it zerg needs to basically treat it as a 4 gate it seems, especially if they delay gas.
On April 29 2012 09:53 Heinsenzerg wrote: how can anyone hate on stephano....
Not really the place to bring up all of the controversial issues surrounding him, but there are many threads about them and enough missed games to make people dislike his approaches. And his overzealous fanbase doesn't hurt either.
And this is how people know you have a low understanding of the game, you don't notice the small things that separate GM players from the top professionals.
What are you on about? Just because somebody didn't find a game to be mindblowing doesn't mean they have no understanding of the game. The first game wasn't bad, but just because it's long and drawn out doesn't automatically make it a stellar match.
Yes, they're playing at a high level, but watching players posture for 20 minutes with negligible harassment isn't exactly exciting as a viewer.
I never said the game was mindblowing, I never said it was exciting. I was telling him that comparing any macro based game to the games he plays in platinum is ignorant.
On April 29 2012 09:27 BuzZoo wrote: People saying that was an awful game??? Really???
lol it was really bad.. endless posturing with no engagement. I hate it when sc2 games play out like this, when there's zero harassment and no splitting of armies, then a 5 second battle to close the 15 minute stalemate.
It probably wasn't the most "entertaining" game for people with low understanding of the game. However, I thougt the game was freaking awesome by mostly watching the production tab. So high level play and awesome game for learning.
Yes I probably just couldn't comprehend what was happening.
if you thought that game was anything below stellar you must have a miniscule knowledge of starcraft...
*sigh* i guess the since BW is dieing sc2 fans can turn on their elitist switch apparently.. you also have no clue what the other players understanding of the game.
Personally it was an avg GM level PvT late game i was watching that i can watch on the live stream tab... I am not saying the game was awful but it certainly wasn't mindblowingly amazing as all these people keep claiming.
And this is how people know you have a low understanding of the game, you don't notice the small things that separate GM players from the top professionals.
My point was that it wasn't the highest level play i've seen.. idk honestly that first game was really fucking sloppy was my point because i do understand the small things that seperate gm from top pros.. want an example? losing 13 fucking infestors is not high lvl play, sorry to burst your bubble.
Making HT's and not making them archons, then securing the high ground, finding the infestors and quickly feedbacking them was a great play by MC. Good players make other good players look bad.
sure that was something mc did well.. howabout the fact that he did a fail vortex 45 seconds later? (which is game ending)
On April 29 2012 09:53 Heinsenzerg wrote: how can anyone hate on stephano....
Because he's french.. No good reasons to hate on him, real nice guy. (the french comment was a joke btw)
Wait hang on. Is the 'Because he's french' a joke because it is preposterous to hate on someone because they are for a certain country? Or is it a joke because he is widely accepted to be American?
On April 29 2012 09:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: MC WOW!!!
Not even a 4gate all-in!
Fuck yeah. That pressure.
It wasn't 4gate but it was an all-in.
That definitely wasn't an all-in. He originally planned to just do pressure, and then he committed more when he saw that he could actually kill Stephano, but if Stephano had ended up holding, MC wouldn't have lost the game (or even been behind, let alone very far behind) because Stephano had lost so much larvae to dead zerglings instead of drones and hypothetical mining time. Stephano had no tech, low drone count, and two bases.
He walled himself in with a pylon he wasn't going to expand. Going all stalker from 3 gates is pretty much all you can afford anyway.
On April 29 2012 09:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: MC WOW!!!
Not even a 4gate all-in!
Fuck yeah. That pressure.
It wasn't 4gate but it was an all-in.
Not necessarily. The Stalkers are good since if the battles start going poorly, you can really book it before Speed pops. It's a strong pressure, and you're not committed as a Sentry/Zealot attack or even a 4 gas variation.
I would say he was very committed. If MC wanted to expand, he would have to warp in stuff at home to be able to even get out of his base. Completely walling off is a pretty good indication that MC was not planning on having to expand.
Any pressure should include this, because a handful of lings running by means you lose attack force by having to warp in at home (minus just ONE warp in to save the wall), and you could lose your Probes. Lack of second gas, lack of another gate, MC actually getting his second gas partly through the attack, the late-ish forward Pylon really showed it wasn't an all in. There was a planned transition out of this.
And this is how people know you have a low understanding of the game, you don't notice the small things that separate GM players from the top professionals.
What are you on about? Just because somebody didn't find a game to be mindblowing doesn't mean they have no understanding of the game. The first game wasn't bad, but just because it's long and drawn out doesn't automatically make it a stellar match.
Yes, they're playing at a high level, but watching players posture for 20 minutes with negligible harassment isn't exactly exciting as a viewer.
I never said the game was mindblowing, I never said it was exciting. I was telling him that comparing any macro based game to the games he plays in platinum is ignorant.
AND apparently you missed the fact that i told you it was hyperbole when you quoted me.
On April 29 2012 09:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: MC WOW!!!
Not even a 4gate all-in!
Fuck yeah. That pressure.
It wasn't 4gate but it was an all-in.
That definitely wasn't an all-in. He originally planned to just do pressure, and then he committed more when he saw that he could actually kill Stephano, but if Stephano had ended up holding, MC wouldn't have lost the game (or even been behind, let alone very far behind) because Stephano had lost so much larvae to dead zerglings instead of drones and hypothetical mining time. Stephano had no tech, low drone count, and two bases.
This.
Not this. MC blindly blocked his base b4 he even reached Stephano's base. He was definitely wanting to do more than just pressure.
And this is how people know you have a low understanding of the game, you don't notice the small things that separate GM players from the top professionals.
What are you on about? Just because somebody didn't find a game to be mindblowing doesn't mean they have no understanding of the game. The first game wasn't bad, but just because it's long and drawn out doesn't automatically make it a stellar match.
Yes, they're playing at a high level, but watching players posture for 20 minutes with negligible harassment isn't exactly exciting as a viewer.
I never said the game was mindblowing, I never said it was exciting. I was telling him that comparing any macro based game to the games he plays in platinum is ignorant.
Fair enough, but his point about it being similar to his platinum games was not him ignoring the superior skill of MC/Stephano, rather he was simply stating it in reference to the passivity of the match. I believe he said something along the lines of "if I wanted to watch players sit back and macro for 20 minutes I'd just watch one of my plat games"
On April 29 2012 09:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: MC WOW!!!
Not even a 4gate all-in!
Fuck yeah. That pressure.
It wasn't 4gate but it was an all-in.
That definitely wasn't an all-in. He originally planned to just do pressure, and then he committed more when he saw that he could actually kill Stephano, but if Stephano had ended up holding, MC wouldn't have lost the game (or even been behind, let alone very far behind) because Stephano had lost so much larvae to dead zerglings instead of drones and hypothetical mining time. Stephano had no tech, low drone count, and two bases.
He walled himself in with a pylon he wasn't going to expand. Going all stalker from 3 gates is pretty much all you can afford anyway.
He walled himself in to prevent a runby, and a 4gate stalker attack (or 5gate zealots) is how much you can afford. Plus, he was warping in zealots as well, not pure stalker.
And this is how people know you have a low understanding of the game, you don't notice the small things that separate GM players from the top professionals.
What are you on about? Just because somebody didn't find a game to be mindblowing doesn't mean they have no understanding of the game. The first game wasn't bad, but just because it's long and drawn out doesn't automatically make it a stellar match.
Yes, they're playing at a high level, but watching players posture for 20 minutes with negligible harassment isn't exactly exciting as a viewer.
I never said the game was mindblowing, I never said it was exciting. I was telling him that comparing any macro based game to the games he plays in platinum is ignorant.
AND apparently you missed the fact that i told you it was hyperbole when you quoted me.
I'm sure it was, I don't think you're stupid enough to really believe that.
"this exactly, i hate macro games where the players sit around and don't do jack shit 3/4 of the game.. i can do that in my plat league just fine and don't need to watch a progame doing the exact same shit."
Just because you don't notice what they are doing 3/4 of the game doesn't mean that nothing is happening. That said, I don't really care if you you found the game exciting or not, what I said is that you made an ignorant statement.
And this is how people know you have a low understanding of the game, you don't notice the small things that separate GM players from the top professionals.
What are you on about? Just because somebody didn't find a game to be mindblowing doesn't mean they have no understanding of the game. The first game wasn't bad, but just because it's long and drawn out doesn't automatically make it a stellar match.
Yes, they're playing at a high level, but watching players posture for 20 minutes with negligible harassment isn't exactly exciting as a viewer.
I never said the game was mindblowing, I never said it was exciting. I was telling him that comparing any macro based game to the games he plays in platinum is ignorant.
AND apparently you missed the fact that i told you it was hyperbole when you quoted me.
I'm sure it was, I don't think you're stupid enough to really believe that.
"this exactly, i hate macro games where the players sit around and don't do jack shit 3/4 of the game.. i can do that in my plat league just fine and don't need to watch a progame doing the exact same shit."
Just because you don't notice what they are doing 3/4 of the game doesn't mean that nothing is happening. That said, I don't really care if you you found the game exciting or not, what I said is that you made an ignorant statement.
really feels like you are the ignorant one here =/
On April 29 2012 10:03 Aocowns wrote: Oh no, MC missed his forcefields, I guess that's the end of this game! This is retarded
Ye the forcefields... and the 4 warpins at the third of stephano and the trying to take an early third despite losing those units. But you're right no matter how much protoss lose they should be able to stay in the game with forcefields.
It baffles me that there is a pimply kid somewhere, australia in this case. That goes out of his way to make a new TL account, just to spoil and annoy a few people.
The difference between that game and the other games is how little damage MC's +1 zealot stalker attack did. The size of that map makes it difficult and MC flat out dies to mass roaches after the harass did no damage. This is what happens to foreigner Protoss players when they face up against Stephano.
On April 29 2012 09:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: MC WOW!!!
Not even a 4gate all-in!
Fuck yeah. That pressure.
It wasn't 4gate but it was an all-in.
Not necessarily. The Stalkers are good since if the battles start going poorly, you can really book it before Speed pops. It's a strong pressure, and you're not committed as a Sentry/Zealot attack or even a 4 gas variation.
I would say he was very committed. If MC wanted to expand, he would have to warp in stuff at home to be able to even get out of his base. Completely walling off is a pretty good indication that MC was not planning on having to expand.
Any pressure should include this, because a handful of lings running by means you lose attack force by having to warp in at home (minus just ONE warp in to save the wall), and you could lose your Probes. Lack of second gas, lack of another gate, MC actually getting his second gas partly through the attack, the late-ish forward Pylon really showed it wasn't an all in. There was a planned transition out of this.
Lack of second gas and lack of the 4th gate is only cos MC wanted constant stalker production, which u can only barely do with 3 gates, the 4th gate becomes pretty useless after a few warp-ins. MC was able to do enough damage so he started to transition, but it really didn't really look like that was his intention. Some koreans have started to do this build and none of them ever expand, it's really just a 4gate but because they have better mechanics, they save 150 minerals and constantly warp in from 3.
On April 29 2012 10:03 Aocowns wrote: Oh no, MC missed his forcefields, I guess that's the end of this game! This is retarded
Game ended when MC didnt do enough dmg to Stephano early on and then he gets very dangerious. Forcefield energy would run out and then he dies. On these maps there is a reason why so many pro says this build is allmost unstoppable
I feel like a moron. I was wondering what he meant by spoilers click the link and was wondering why there were so many CENSORED on his account. Then it suddenly hit me that he spoiled it. Well he did give warning....
On April 29 2012 10:03 Mioraka wrote: This is the meta game for ZvP.
If protoss doesn't do enough damage in the first pressure and takes a third, it is roach max to gg.
If you commit a lot of ressource to pressure the 3rd and dont do any economic damage you're massively behind, that's not a problem and it's true in every matchup
On April 29 2012 10:05 Youtakenocandle wrote: It baffles me that there is a pimply kid somewhere, australia in this case. That goes out of his way to make a new TL account, just to spoil and annoy a few people.
Until people start raising their kids to show respect to everyone its not going to change or their friends do it or something. Or maybe we could take after korea and give the ability to sue retards online :D
I feel like a moron. I was wondering what he meant by spoilers click the link and was wondering why there were so many losses on his account. Then it suddenly hit me that he spoiled it. Well he did give warning....
On April 29 2012 10:08 ZenithM wrote: Oh man we're getting trolled there by all the friends/smurfs of Zyybrah.
His behaviour makes it obvious that he has no friends and is seeking even negative attention. Fucking lame though. Someone in australia should visit him just to scare him :D
On April 29 2012 10:03 Aocowns wrote: Oh no, MC missed his forcefields, I guess that's the end of this game! This is retarded
Ye the forcefields... and the 4 warpins at the third of stephano and the trying to take an early third despite losing those units. But you're right no matter how much protoss lose they should be able to stay in the game with forcefields.
2 base pressure only really leads to a 7 gate +2 Blink all in if you don't expand. The early expo is very defensible if you hit the FFs, MC does this regularly. 4 extra Zealots isn't make or break (consider it a delaying of the Nexus by a handful of seconds), while missing FFs with that few units will kill you regardless of how far ahead or behind you are.
On April 29 2012 10:08 ZenithM wrote: Oh man we're getting trolled there by all the friends/smurfs of Zyybrah.
His behaviour makes it obvious that he has no friends and is seeking even negative attention. Fucking lame though. Someone in australia should visit him just to scare him :D
And he quotes himself with another account to say thanks >< How can guy like that exist. I often try to imagine how they are in real life. You should all do this too, it's very relaxing.
On April 29 2012 10:11 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: grackaddict and Zyzzbrah both seem to be new troll/ flame accounts created to spoil the match. What the fuck?
Retards... If you're gonna post spoilers, or just as bad, quoting unquoted spoilers... Ugh... Now the showmatch doesn't have that much watch value anymore TTTT
On April 29 2012 10:11 maracuja123 wrote: Even though people here are dicks, IPl should've used cloaked maps..
can someone aware me on this? Haven't been in the scene for 7 months.
It's modified version of maps, where you can't see who played against the player you're looking at, who won, who lost, or any statistics about the game. The result of the game is "tied" and that's all.
1) Why would you post this at all whether or not it is true. 2)Why post it especially if it is true? What does it do for you -_-
got it from stephano's bnet page, blame IPL for not using cloaked maps. and its for people who want to know results but dont have time to watch
Lol you need to be banned too. Why wouldn't those people be able to fucking WAIT for the results after it's been broadcasted?
This guy post spoilers in every thread. He really want to be agreeable to people who can't watch live but can read the LR thread live to know the end results I guess.
On April 29 2012 10:11 maracuja123 wrote: Even though people here are dicks, IPl should've used cloaked maps..
can someone aware me on this? Haven't been in the scene for 7 months.
If I'm right, the game considers there's a 3rd player in the game, so even when both of the players leave, you can't see the result since it's technically not over.
Yeah, replaycasts should definitely be played on cloaked maps. The only other way to guarantee a spoiler free experience would be just not to participate in the LR thread, and what fun would that be?
1) Why would you post this at all whether or not it is true. 2)Why post it especially if it is true? What does it do for you -_-
got it from stephano's bnet page, blame IPL for not using cloaked maps. and its for people who want to know results but dont have time to watch
Lol you need to be banned too. Why wouldn't those people be able to fucking WAIT for the results after it's been broadcasted?
This guy post spoilers in every thread. He really want to be agreeable to people who can't watch live but can read the LR thread live to know the end results I guess.
It's still dumb. In a LR thread we follow what's going on, when it's done you just have to click results in the OP. It's like 3am, I wasn't being careful, saw a spoiler tag, clicked it by reflex, got spoiled. Even though it's my fault, I still believe this had nothing to do here. People in a LR thread right when the match is going on are following the match, if they want end results : OP or Liquipedia are enough.
On April 29 2012 10:14 Youtakenocandle wrote: Yeah this is IGN's fault really. There are always lonely douchebags like this guy trying to ruin fun of others.
No this is not IGN's fault....it is the fault of the guy who posted all of the results. IGN could have taken steps to try and stop it, but them not doing it in no way makes it their fault..
I think organizers should release the replays when results are leaked (and they always have a part of responsibility) to compensate us. I mean I'm essentially watching for only learning and strategic value now, I might as well open the replays if I only want that :D
On April 29 2012 10:14 Youtakenocandle wrote: Yeah this is IGN's fault really. There are always lonely douchebags like this guy trying to ruin fun of others.
No this is not IGN's fault....it is the fault of the guy who posted all of the results. IGN could have taken steps to try and stop it, but them not doing it in no way makes it their fault..
It does make it their fault. This planet is sadly filled with many many challenged people like this kid. Hope they learn from it.
On April 29 2012 09:53 Heinsenzerg wrote: how can anyone hate on stephano....
Because he's french.. No good reasons to hate on him, real nice guy. (the french comment was a joke btw)
Wait hang on. Is the 'Because he's french' a joke because it is preposterous to hate on someone because they are for a certain country? Or is it a joke because he is widely accepted to be American?
Inquiring minds want to know.
I would go with the people hating on him because he's from france.
Have you seen the interview of Stephano when he says fuck Team USA (drunk and jokingly of course)
Hahaha, I love how those 2 players speak in the begining of each game, really sport and "fair play" I mean, that's the kind of thing you can still enjoy, even if you got spoiled the fuck out of you
On April 29 2012 10:19 GhandiEAGLE wrote: man, this series is ruined for me because of those jerks who spoiled it
I've just learned that Spoilers Gonna Spoil, and if it's a match that I absolutely cannot stand being spoiled ahead of time for, I won't even bother opening up the LR thread or the stream chat.
It sucks but it's come down to that -____- Some people are douchebags.
On April 29 2012 10:23 ZenithM wrote: Wait lol suddenly I remember the score but completely forgot who won. Wtf genius timing to have a selective memory. Time to enjoy the cast again :D:D
On April 29 2012 10:24 Benjamin99 wrote: People hate Stephano becuase he makes other pro players look dumb. When people are fan of someone ofcourse they dont like that. Thats a feeling I got.
Also when he first arived people didnt like that some new commer just came and won a big tournament.
Not a lot of people hate Stephano. Most people hate the way Stephano's fanboys say things.
On April 29 2012 10:24 Benjamin99 wrote: People hate Stephano becuase he makes other pro players look dumb. When people are fan of someone ofcourse they dont like that. Thats a feeling I got.
Also when he first arived people didnt like that some new commer just came and won a big tournament.
No people don't like Stephano because his fanboys *cough cough* are annoying as hell. We already went over this, I don't see why you are bringing it up again.
On April 29 2012 10:32 Lasbike wrote: Stephano makes 4 hatcheries and 2 spires at the same time, on 90 drones and no combat unit...And MC doesn't attack. Now Stephano is 30 supply up lol
On April 29 2012 10:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Double spire after he saw phoenixes... Stephano making an interesting tech decision right here.
How? I always thought that was a mind issue more than anything else. Phoenixes are a bit overrated. genius handled them geniusly
Pretty much. I remember when Nony asked him about a game vs White-ra (maybe the SxSW showmatch?) where White-ra went phoenixes, and he said he basically felt like he won at that point.
Lol. Zerg: "Got an upgrade to deal with mass mutalisks who one shot everything? Well I'll just one shot the building before completion ^_^" Protoss: "T.T"
Stephano's muta play has a lot of flaws. When you go mutas you have to have a transition, and you have to do damage to the opponent's economy. He tried to engage MC full on with muta ling and that just doesn't work.
I think Stephano went for this build cause MC's initial attack did too much damage, so stephano probably thought "i'm gonna make a super greedy build with +4 hatchs +2 spires and if it holds, well good for me"
On April 29 2012 10:32 Lasbike wrote: Stephano makes 4 hatcheries and 2 spires at the same time, on 90 drones and no combat unit...And MC doesn't attack. Now Stephano is 30 supply up lol
He also made 9 overlords during that. Now thats what I call macro
Stephano was hoping that MC would go all nutz with airunits and then counter them with infestors. But MC smart he made a bunch of blink stalkers instead. I dont think the muta build would work vs a player like MC
MC played well, but I think that victory was more of Stephano's fault. He didn't do much damage with mutas, and ended up suiciding too many. Plus, he hardly had any spine crawlers, so he couldn't even base trade.
On April 29 2012 10:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Double spire after he saw phoenixes... Stephano making an interesting tech decision right here.
Stephano figured that MC would figure that Stephano would go hydra to deal with the air harass, and that MC would go colossus to counter it: so Stephano went muta to counter that.
On April 29 2012 10:38 iwearcapes wrote: replays......... why cant this be live. it would be alot more awesome.. QQ
As the viewer, what's the difference to you?
theres just something about games being casted live that make them a lot more exciting... maybe I'm the only one that thinks this way though
I feel the same, but it really isn't much of an issue. I do think that they should start giving the date the games were played though. It's frustrating when you don't know if they were played a day ago, a week ago, or a month ago.
On April 29 2012 10:38 iwearcapes wrote: replays......... why cant this be live. it would be alot more awesome.. QQ
As the viewer, what's the difference to you?
theres just something about games being casted live that make them a lot more exciting... maybe I'm the only one that thinks this way though
I feel the same way.. usually when I watch games off replays (even if casted live) or VODs I surf websites, chat with people, etc. But when I watch live BW, MLGs or GSL finals I just HAVE to watch!!.. There's something special about watching something that's FUCKING LIVE!
On April 29 2012 10:39 Benjamin99 wrote: Stephano was hoping that MC would go all nutz with airunits and then counter them with infestors. But MC smart he made a bunch of blink stalkers instead. I dont think the muta build would work vs a player like MC
Infestors would have been the best choice in my opinion. It would have stopped both the air units and the blink stalkers.
Why patrol your probe if you are hiding it behind the minerals? I guess he wasn't really trying to hide it if he was patrolling it, because if anything that just gives your opponent a better chance of seeing it.
On April 29 2012 10:40 GhandiEAGLE wrote: This just isnt fun to watch anymore because of spoilers T_T
Well at first I thought that too, and there is no doubt that the spoiler was stupid. But despite of that I also think that the "quality" of the games declined. Game one was awesome, game two was pretty cool but then... the games are good & entertaining but not that epic as I expected them to be after game one.
On April 29 2012 10:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Double spire after he saw phoenixes... Stephano making an interesting tech decision right here.
Stephano figured that MC would figure that Stephano would go hydra to deal with the air harass, and that MC would go colossus to counter it: so Stephano went muta to counter that.
Or at least thats how I interpeted it...
No. At very top level, no pro z counter P air with hydras. That's well know by both MC and Stephano.
I hope Stephano will try to cheese at least once, even tho at 3-3 it's probably too late. I think one of his weakness is always going for the macro game, so basically it's the opponent who will adapt and Ste will always be on the receiving end. And as I type that I see banelings xD
On April 29 2012 10:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Double spire after he saw phoenixes... Stephano making an interesting tech decision right here.
Stephano figured that MC would figure that Stephano would go hydra to deal with the air harass, and that MC would go colossus to counter it: so Stephano went muta to counter that.
Or at least thats how I interpeted it...
Ah gotcha
Uh... Stephano's baneling bust did like... no damage? o.O Considering how many lings and blings were in MC's base...
Stephano is not very practiced with these new builds he's showing and I think that's the problem. Winning a few games vs. Mana and Bling is one thing, using it against MC, who's played a thousand games vs. Zerg cheese, is another.
On April 29 2012 10:47 Lasbike wrote: That attack would have worked on most protoss.. But not with MC :D
Not it was not MC playing so well it was Stephano attacking the natural with his last lings instead of killing the main.
lol man don't overhype him. Stephano's attack DID work on MC. It was just stephano's wrong choice of not killing MC's nexus which is why MC was able to stabilize.
Once again, I feel that it was more of Stephano's blunder for not winning that game. He could have destroyed the Nexus to be ahead, but he instead took the bait and threw the game away.
On April 29 2012 10:57 PhoenixVoid wrote: Once again, I feel that it was more of Stephano's blunder for not winning that game. He could have destroyed the Nexus to be ahead, but he instead took the bait and threw the game away.
On April 29 2012 10:57 PhoenixVoid wrote: Once again, I feel that it was more of Stephano's blunder for not winning that game. He could have destroyed the Nexus to be ahead, but he instead took the bait and threw the game away.
Please explain the "bait" that stephano took.
MC brought his probes back up to the main and the lings and blings followed them down into the cannons (as Stephano thought he could catch the probes), rather than staying up in the main and killing off the nexus.
On April 29 2012 10:57 PhoenixVoid wrote: Once again, I feel that it was more of Stephano's blunder for not winning that game. He could have destroyed the Nexus to be ahead, but he instead took the bait and threw the game away.
Please explain the "bait" that stephano took.
MC brought his probes back up to the main and the lings and blings followed them down into the cannons (as Stephano thought he could catch the probes), rather than staying up in the main and killing off the nexus.
On April 29 2012 11:00 chosenkerrigan wrote: Cute that everyone just assumes stephano would get the nexus with those a few lings..coz you know..mc had zealots and stalkers and sentries...that was not a whole lot of lings and mc could always go back to the main and save the nexus
On April 29 2012 11:00 chosenkerrigan wrote: Cute that everyone just assumes stephano would get the nexus with those a few lings..coz you know..mc had zealots and stalkers and sentries...that was not a whole lot of lings and mc could always go back to the main and save the nexus
On April 29 2012 11:00 chosenkerrigan wrote: Cute that everyone just assumes stephano would get the nexus with those a few lings..coz you know..mc had zealots and stalkers and sentries...that was not a whole lot of lings and mc could always go back to the main and save the nexus
Great series! So happy MC won! He may have died to the roach push in 2 of those games, but glad to see MC adapted to put a stop to it. Stephano seemed confused on what to do once his 12 min roach push build is stopped.
On April 29 2012 11:14 Canucklehead wrote: Great series! So happy MC won! He may have died to the roach push in 2 of those games, but glad to see MC adapted to put a stop to it. Stephano seemed confused on what to do once his 12 min roach push build is stopped.
He won Game 1 with a late game composition. The other games he wasn't able to transition because MC was in his face with 2 base pressure and star gate play.
That last game was pretty close, MC needed to win with that attack as he was back down to 2 base vs 4 with lots of dead probes. If Stephano had remained behind his spine-wall instead of rushing forward to engage the Protoss army he might have held that as more reinforcements joined his own force. Entertaining matches.
Obviously the suspense was ruined by that stupid f@cker with his multiple spoilers and the retards quoting him.
entertaining games overall, showcasing nice builds from bosstoss and proving stephano is definately capable of competing with code s protoss sad it had to get spoiled, but oh well, hoping for cloaked maps in the future
On April 29 2012 11:14 Canucklehead wrote: Great series! So happy MC won! He may have died to the roach push in 2 of those games, but glad to see MC adapted to put a stop to it. Stephano seemed confused on what to do once his 12 min roach push build is stopped.
Hope this is a joke lol Stephano's zvp after 12 min roach is still one of the best if not THE best
On April 29 2012 11:14 Canucklehead wrote: Great series! So happy MC won! He may have died to the roach push in 2 of those games, but glad to see MC adapted to put a stop to it. Stephano seemed confused on what to do once his 12 min roach push build is stopped.
He won Game 1 with a late game composition. The other games he wasn't able to transition because MC was in his face with 2 base pressure and star gate play.
On April 29 2012 11:16 Havik_ wrote: I think MC basically showed 2 basing is still the best way to play PvZ.
Why do you say this? He won one game with a 1base 3gateway pressure, another game with 3bases and blink stalker vs. mass muta, and that last game off a fast three bases... and I don't even remember the other two wins offhand (at least, how many bases he had)... so the majority of MC's wins were not off two bases.
Great set of games. I was hoping that Stephano would win, as I lean more towards Zerg. I must admit though that losing to MC after saying protoss needs a buff in the matchup is quite ironic and hilarious.
I think Stephano's biggest weakness is his weak muta play. That game he went mutas he had complete map control and was on six bases, but lost because he failed to transition, failed to slow down MC's economy, and failed to engage and base trade correctly. I know he hates mutas, but mutas and banelings are the missing piece of his ZvP.
On April 29 2012 11:20 Hulavuta wrote: Just want to say, I predicted MC 5-3 and I was right :DDDDD
I actually think MC's PvZ is better than Squirtle's...MC's only lost 2 series this entire year, against Violet and DRG.
Pretty sure no Protoss in the world understands the late game nearly as good as Squirtle. Most people just haven't gotten to see this and won't get to see this until some zergs actually step it up in the GSL. =(
On April 29 2012 11:33 Azarkon wrote: I think Stephano's biggest weakness is his weak muta play. That game he went mutas he had complete map control and a flourishing economy on six bases, but lost because he failed to transition, failed to slow down MC's economy, and failed to engage and base trade correctly. I know he hates mutas, but mutas and banelings are the missing piece of his ZvP.
yeah
i know people hate idras zvp, but idras transitions after muta (recently ofc, like past few weeks) have been stellar, looked a little better then what stephano was up to that game.
On April 29 2012 11:27 jnsjr wrote: Great set of games. I was hoping that Stephano would win, as I lean more towards Zerg. I must admit though that losing to MC after saying protoss needs a buff in the matchup is quite ironic and hilarious.
No, it's not ironic, unless you didn't pay attention to what he was saying... He didn't say "Protoss absolutely cannot win and I expect to have a 100% win rate against them", he said "Protoss are forced into risky play while Zerg can play much safer". So losing to the King of gimmicky bullshit does nothing to disprove what he said.
On April 29 2012 11:20 Hulavuta wrote: Just want to say, I predicted MC 5-3 and I was right :DDDDD
I actually think MC's PvZ is better than Squirtle's...MC's only lost 2 series this entire year, against Violet and DRG.
Pretty sure no Protoss in the world understands the late game nearly as good as Squirtle. Most people just haven't gotten to see this and won't get to see this until some zergs actually step it up in the GSL. =(
I think recently in the korean metagame the 2 or 3 base timings are really strong so it makes zerg players look quite silly (not crying imba, just that its a recent trend that toss is the dominator, lots of small wacky things that the gsl zergs arent correctly dealing with, and im not going to go with the hivemind and say its that the zergs are playing bad
On April 29 2012 11:27 jnsjr wrote: Great set of games. I was hoping that Stephano would win, as I lean more towards Zerg. I must admit though that losing to MC after saying protoss needs a buff in the matchup is quite ironic and hilarious.
No, it's not ironic, unless you didn't pay attention to what he was saying... He didn't say "Protoss absolutely cannot win and I expect to have a 100% win rate against them", he said "Protoss are forced into risky play while Zerg can play much safer". So losing to the King of gimmicky bullshit does nothing to disprove what he said.
your stupid, MC pvz is solid as a rock, and im not commenting on the disprove/prove thing you guys are posting on, but MC metagamed and outplayed Stephano, showing his series and gameplay is better, with hte only real gimick he did was the 3 gate which tricked the zerg who doesnt scout and doesn't get gas
Stephano does have to switch it up with better all-ins instead of the poorly practiced ones he put out this series. MC meta-gamed him with 17 nexus 5 games straight and 3 gate one game, though his star gate play was what won him the series.
On April 29 2012 11:27 jnsjr wrote: Great set of games. I was hoping that Stephano would win, as I lean more towards Zerg. I must admit though that losing to MC after saying protoss needs a buff in the matchup is quite ironic and hilarious.
No, it's not ironic, unless you didn't pay attention to what he was saying... He didn't say "Protoss absolutely cannot win and I expect to have a 100% win rate against them", he said "Protoss are forced into risky play while Zerg can play much safer". So losing to the King of gimmicky bullshit does nothing to disprove what he said.
your stupid, MC pvz is solid as a rock, and im not commenting on the disprove/prove thing you guys are posting on, but MC metagamed and outplayed Stephano, showing his series and gameplay is better, with hte only real gimick he did was the 3 gate which tricked the zerg who doesnt scout and doesn't get gas
Yes, I think stephano is amazing player, but protoss that are smart are punishing him for cutting corners and playing to beat the roach style, and the cheese he mixes in are reminiscent of how bad idra's allins are, example- THorzain vs Idra NASL, Antiga SHipyard.
edit: or was it IdrA vs Alive? I can not remember, he did a roach bane allin and lost horribly
On April 29 2012 11:27 jnsjr wrote: Great set of games. I was hoping that Stephano would win, as I lean more towards Zerg. I must admit though that losing to MC after saying protoss needs a buff in the matchup is quite ironic and hilarious.
No, it's not ironic, unless you didn't pay attention to what he was saying... He didn't say "Protoss absolutely cannot win and I expect to have a 100% win rate against them", he said "Protoss are forced into risky play while Zerg can play much safer". So losing to the King of gimmicky bullshit does nothing to disprove what he said.
your stupid, MC pvz is solid as a rock, and im not commenting on the disprove/prove thing you guys are posting on, but MC metagamed and outplayed Stephano, showing his series and gameplay is better, with hte only real gimick he did was the 3 gate which tricked the zerg who doesnt scout and doesn't get gas
No your stupid.
Wow good post, You say that me calling you on saying MC is doing gimmicks w/o thought is because Stephano doesnt scout is stupid.
On April 29 2012 11:27 jnsjr wrote: Great set of games. I was hoping that Stephano would win, as I lean more towards Zerg. I must admit though that losing to MC after saying protoss needs a buff in the matchup is quite ironic and hilarious.
No, it's not ironic, unless you didn't pay attention to what he was saying... He didn't say "Protoss absolutely cannot win and I expect to have a 100% win rate against them", he said "Protoss are forced into risky play while Zerg can play much safer". So losing to the King of gimmicky bullshit does nothing to disprove what he said.
your stupid, MC pvz is solid as a rock, and im not commenting on the disprove/prove thing you guys are posting on, but MC metagamed and outplayed Stephano, showing his series and gameplay is better, with hte only real gimick he did was the 3 gate which tricked the zerg who doesnt scout and doesn't get gas
No your stupid.
Wow good post, You say that me calling you on saying MC is doing gimmicks w/o thought is because Stephano doesnt scout is stupid.
Don't bother with the fanboys. The guy with no real results against top tier players is obviously better than the 2 time GSL champion and all time money list leader (including $50k in 2012).
On April 29 2012 11:27 jnsjr wrote: Great set of games. I was hoping that Stephano would win, as I lean more towards Zerg. I must admit though that losing to MC after saying protoss needs a buff in the matchup is quite ironic and hilarious.
No, it's not ironic, unless you didn't pay attention to what he was saying... He didn't say "Protoss absolutely cannot win and I expect to have a 100% win rate against them", he said "Protoss are forced into risky play while Zerg can play much safer". So losing to the King of gimmicky bullshit does nothing to disprove what he said.
your stupid, MC pvz is solid as a rock, and im not commenting on the disprove/prove thing you guys are posting on, but MC metagamed and outplayed Stephano, showing his series and gameplay is better, with hte only real gimick he did was the 3 gate which tricked the zerg who doesnt scout and doesn't get gas
On April 29 2012 11:27 jnsjr wrote: Great set of games. I was hoping that Stephano would win, as I lean more towards Zerg. I must admit though that losing to MC after saying protoss needs a buff in the matchup is quite ironic and hilarious.
No, it's not ironic, unless you didn't pay attention to what he was saying... He didn't say "Protoss absolutely cannot win and I expect to have a 100% win rate against them", he said "Protoss are forced into risky play while Zerg can play much safer". So losing to the King of gimmicky bullshit does nothing to disprove what he said.
your stupid, MC pvz is solid as a rock, and im not commenting on the disprove/prove thing you guys are posting on, but MC metagamed and outplayed Stephano, showing his series and gameplay is better, with hte only real gimick he did was the 3 gate which tricked the zerg who doesnt scout and doesn't get gas
No your stupid.
Haha, posts like this are always ironic.
Look at the message I'm answering before jumping to conclusions...
On April 29 2012 11:27 jnsjr wrote: Great set of games. I was hoping that Stephano would win, as I lean more towards Zerg. I must admit though that losing to MC after saying protoss needs a buff in the matchup is quite ironic and hilarious.
No, it's not ironic, unless you didn't pay attention to what he was saying... He didn't say "Protoss absolutely cannot win and I expect to have a 100% win rate against them", he said "Protoss are forced into risky play while Zerg can play much safer". So losing to the King of gimmicky bullshit does nothing to disprove what he said.
Ok, I'll bite. I did pay attention to what he said. He has said that Blizzard should fix the matchup because its imbalanced towards zerg. If he proceeds to lose every series against a top Korean protoss, that would be ironic no? We will have to see how the next few ZvP series against top Korean protosses go for him. He is going to Korea soon, so I am sure that we will get to see some amazing ZvP matches. My guess is that its not as imbalanced as Stephano's comments would seem to imply.
MC didn't win this BO9 with gimmicky bullshit. MAYBE you could consider 1 or 2 strategies gimmicky, but come on man. Give credit where credit is due.
On April 29 2012 12:11 HuKPOWA wrote: Certainly not best ZvP in the world...as it was shown
I don't think anyone in their right mind would have thought that Stephano had better ZvP than DRG. Stephano is obviously quite good when it comes to taking out certain playstyles, but he cannot adapt easily and has poor game sense. DRG is on another level really.
On April 29 2012 11:27 jnsjr wrote: Great set of games. I was hoping that Stephano would win, as I lean more towards Zerg. I must admit though that losing to MC after saying protoss needs a buff in the matchup is quite ironic and hilarious.
No, it's not ironic, unless you didn't pay attention to what he was saying... He didn't say "Protoss absolutely cannot win and I expect to have a 100% win rate against them", he said "Protoss are forced into risky play while Zerg can play much safer". So losing to the King of gimmicky bullshit does nothing to disprove what he said.
your stupid, MC pvz is solid as a rock, and im not commenting on the disprove/prove thing you guys are posting on, but MC metagamed and outplayed Stephano, showing his series and gameplay is better, with hte only real gimick he did was the 3 gate which tricked the zerg who doesnt scout and doesn't get gas
No your stupid.
Haha, posts like this are always ironic.
Look at the message I'm answering before jumping to conclusions...
Well original poster was correct. Also, all I need to do is see a user's origin and see France to know what agenda is.
On April 29 2012 12:11 HuKPOWA wrote: Certainly not best ZvP in the world...as it was shown
i agree with above poster that drg prolly has the best zvp in the world.. but i'd have to say stepano is a close 2nd. losing 5-3 to the best pvz'er in the world is no slouch. mc himself has been quoted saying he will not lose to zerg.... ever. only zerg i recall mc losing to is drg himself. and according to mc, best pvt = parting, pvp = huk, pvz = mc.... which i actually agree with 100%.
I think this series was good practice for Stephano to see a few of MC's plays. Now that he can recognise them he should be able to cope better. I am talking about Stephano's decision to make 7 drones during MC's attack on Antigua. If he makes units instead it would have really helped him hold off that one base all-in. Also, in the Ohana game, I guess Stephano will know to scout for that pylon that allowed MC to warp in those sentries into Stephano's main after getting high ground vision from the void-ray. Also I guess he knows he should have sniped that nexus after that baneling bust rather than following the probes into the natural. Plus sticking with Mutas for so long against blink stalkers was not such a good idea.
So some valuable lessons to be learnt there. Stephano seemed a lot closer to MC than in their previous meetings. MC is still setting the standard though.
Thank you IPL for organizing this, but please be sure to put all matches such as these on cloaked maps so assholes can't ruin the viewing experience for all of us. This issue is imperative and needs to be implemented ASAP. IPL has been very good in responding to community concerns, and I have high hopes that the necessary changes will be made.
On April 29 2012 12:48 Bagration wrote: Thank you IPL for organizing this, but please be sure to put all matches such as these on cloaked maps so assholes can't ruin the viewing experience for all of us. This issue is imperative and needs to be implemented ASAP. IPL has been very good in responding to community concerns, and I have high hopes that the necessary changes will be made.
On April 29 2012 11:27 jnsjr wrote: Great set of games. I was hoping that Stephano would win, as I lean more towards Zerg. I must admit though that losing to MC after saying protoss needs a buff in the matchup is quite ironic and hilarious.
No, it's not ironic, unless you didn't pay attention to what he was saying... He didn't say "Protoss absolutely cannot win and I expect to have a 100% win rate against them", he said "Protoss are forced into risky play while Zerg can play much safer". So losing to the King of gimmicky bullshit does nothing to disprove what he said.
your stupid, MC pvz is solid as a rock, and im not commenting on the disprove/prove thing you guys are posting on, but MC metagamed and outplayed Stephano, showing his series and gameplay is better, with hte only real gimick he did was the 3 gate which tricked the zerg who doesnt scout and doesn't get gas
No your stupid.
Haha, posts like this are always ironic.
Look at the message I'm answering before jumping to conclusions...
Well original poster was correct. Also, all I need to do is see a user's origin and see France to know what agenda is.
No, he was not correct, he made a mistake that even a non native speaker think is ridiculous while trying to insult me, so I was making fun of him.
As for Stephano he's actually not that popular in France so you're wrong to think that (or you should I say your wrong?).
Also my original point is still correct, Stephano says Zerg is favoured, he never said he would win everything. People who say "lol but he lost one game" are the ones who are ridiculous.
On April 29 2012 11:50 SomeONEx wrote: Foreign hope losing to a player that got knocked out of ro16!
... have you seen Stephano and MC's head to head record? I don't remember it exactly, but it was heavily in MC's favor even before this IPL FC.
I think the record is something like "MC wins every time" to zero.
Plus, MC getting knocked out of the round of 16... so what? What round of the GSL did Stephano get knocked out of? Comparing their GSL success is hilarious.
Also basing a players skill solely off of GSL results is ridiculous... MVP made it further than MKP but I think most people who have watched SC2 recently would agree MKP is better. GSL is the biggest tournament in starcraft but trying to put a value on round of 16 vs round of 8 or even round of 32 is impossible, Starcraft is a game where even the best players will lose a bo3 to someone they should probably beat... Just because MC faltered in GSL on one night doesn't make him any worse, especially in pvz considering he wasn't eliminated by any zergs! Great games by both players and glad to see MC and Stephano getting along and another Code S player complimenting Stephano's abilities, maybe not the last foreign hope but probably the best (or NaNi)
Thanks Bibbit, I fixed it... Unacceptable mistake really
On April 29 2012 14:08 Mortalfury wrote: Also basing a players skill solely off of GSL results is ridiculous... MVP made it further than MKP but I think most people would agree MKP is better. GSL is the biggest tournament in starcraft but trying to put a value on round of 16 vs round of 8 or even round of 32 is impossible, Starcraft is a game where even the best players will lose a bo3 to someone they should probably beat... Just because MC faltered in GSL on one night doesn't make any worse, especially considering he wasn't eliminated by any zergs
uhh hell no. Most people would NOT agree that MKP is better than Mvp.
On April 29 2012 14:08 Mortalfury wrote: Also basing a players skill solely off of GSL results is ridiculous... MVP made it further than MKP but I think most people would agree MKP is better. GSL is the biggest tournament in starcraft but trying to put a value on round of 16 vs round of 8 or even round of 32 is impossible, Starcraft is a game where even the best players will lose a bo3 to someone they should probably beat... Just because MC faltered in GSL on one night doesn't make any worse, especially considering he wasn't eliminated by any zergs
uhh hell no. Most people would NOT agree that MKP is better than Mvp.
Yeah he should have rephrased. Most people who have watched sc2 recently would agree that MKP is better than MVP. Easy fix.
On April 29 2012 11:50 SomeONEx wrote: Foreign hope losing to a player that got knocked out of ro16!
... have you seen Stephano and MC's head to head record? I don't remember it exactly, but it was heavily in MC's favor even before this IPL FC.
I think the record is something like "MC wins every time" to zero.
Plus, MC getting knocked out of the round of 16... so what? What round of the GSL did Stephano get knocked out of? Comparing their GSL success is hilarious.
I think the point was that a foreigner so good as to be called the "Foreign hope" lost to someone who didn't even reach the previous GSL Ro8.
It's not a matter of comparing the two in terms of GSL success -_-
On April 29 2012 11:50 SomeONEx wrote: Foreign hope losing to a player that got knocked out of ro16!
... have you seen Stephano and MC's head to head record? I don't remember it exactly, but it was heavily in MC's favor even before this IPL FC.
I think the record is something like "MC wins every time" to zero.
Plus, MC getting knocked out of the round of 16... so what? What round of the GSL did Stephano get knocked out of? Comparing their GSL success is hilarious.
I think the point was that a foreigner so good as to be called the "Foreign hope" lost to someone who didn't even reach the previous GSL Ro8.
It's not a matter of comparing the two in terms of GSL success -_-
MC has the best PvZ record of all Korean Protosses in 2012. He lost in the GSL to Protosses and Terrans. This showmatch was between the best PvZ in Korea and the best ZvP in the foreigner's scene. Trying to play down MC is ignorant.
Squirtle is around the same level, but that's about it. Stephano has smashed JYP and Ret has smashed Genius, the two other PvZ experts in Korea. Oz is up there too, but he's a bit streaky in the match up.
On April 29 2012 11:50 SomeONEx wrote: Foreign hope losing to a player that got knocked out of ro16!
... have you seen Stephano and MC's head to head record? I don't remember it exactly, but it was heavily in MC's favor even before this IPL FC.
I think the record is something like "MC wins every time" to zero.
Plus, MC getting knocked out of the round of 16... so what? What round of the GSL did Stephano get knocked out of? Comparing their GSL success is hilarious.
I think the point was that a foreigner so good as to be called the "Foreign hope" lost to someone who didn't even reach the previous GSL Ro8.
It's not a matter of comparing the two in terms of GSL success -_-
If that's the case, then I find that point to be rather silly, considering it's rather well established that there are certainly at least 8 Koreans better than any foreigner at any point in the history of SC2 (unless we want to talk about a GSL run, where Ro8 foreigners are Foreigner Hopes by this seemingly arbitrary standard, since the GSL is the most prestigious SC2 tournament... but then Stephano has never been a real Foreigner Hope). I don't really like using the term "Foreigner Hope" anyway
On April 29 2012 14:08 Mortalfury wrote: Also basing a players skill solely off of GSL results is ridiculous... MVP made it further than MKP but I think most people would agree MKP is better. GSL is the biggest tournament in starcraft but trying to put a value on round of 16 vs round of 8 or even round of 32 is impossible, Starcraft is a game where even the best players will lose a bo3 to someone they should probably beat... Just because MC faltered in GSL on one night doesn't make any worse, especially considering he wasn't eliminated by any zergs
uhh hell no. Most people would NOT agree that MKP is better than Mvp.
Currently MKP is better than MVP.
Once MVP gets his wrist issues fixed we'll see, MKP has improved a ton.
On April 29 2012 11:16 Havik_ wrote: I think MC basically showed 2 basing is still the best way to play PvZ.
Why do you say this? He won one game with a 1base 3gateway pressure, another game with 3bases and blink stalker vs. mass muta, and that last game off a fast three bases... and I don't even remember the other two wins offhand (at least, how many bases he had)... so the majority of MC's wins were not off two bases.
apparantly people that don't watch MC's games still think he ONLY use 2 base all-ins.
On April 29 2012 14:08 Mortalfury wrote: Also basing a players skill solely off of GSL results is ridiculous... MVP made it further than MKP but I think most people would agree MKP is better. GSL is the biggest tournament in starcraft but trying to put a value on round of 16 vs round of 8 or even round of 32 is impossible, Starcraft is a game where even the best players will lose a bo3 to someone they should probably beat... Just because MC faltered in GSL on one night doesn't make any worse, especially considering he wasn't eliminated by any zergs
uhh hell no. Most people would NOT agree that MKP is better than Mvp.
uh fuck no. When MVP at his prime, no one even close to his domination.
On April 29 2012 14:08 Mortalfury wrote: Also basing a players skill solely off of GSL results is ridiculous... MVP made it further than MKP but I think most people would agree MKP is better. GSL is the biggest tournament in starcraft but trying to put a value on round of 16 vs round of 8 or even round of 32 is impossible, Starcraft is a game where even the best players will lose a bo3 to someone they should probably beat... Just because MC faltered in GSL on one night doesn't make any worse, especially considering he wasn't eliminated by any zergs
uhh hell no. Most people would NOT agree that MKP is better than Mvp.
uh fuck no. When MVP at his prime, no one even close to his domination.
I'd find it hard to argue against MKP being the best Terran right now
On April 29 2012 14:08 Mortalfury wrote: Also basing a players skill solely off of GSL results is ridiculous... MVP made it further than MKP but I think most people would agree MKP is better. GSL is the biggest tournament in starcraft but trying to put a value on round of 16 vs round of 8 or even round of 32 is impossible, Starcraft is a game where even the best players will lose a bo3 to someone they should probably beat... Just because MC faltered in GSL on one night doesn't make any worse, especially considering he wasn't eliminated by any zergs
uhh hell no. Most people would NOT agree that MKP is better than Mvp.
MKP has completely evolved to a different animal this year. I would put my money on him than on MVP in any tournament. Not only MKP does have superior unit control than MVP, MKP's macro has become a total beast. Only weakness which I though he has overcome seems to be, his nerves. He still tends to tilt (usually overcomitting) after a frustrating loss.
MVP is kind of like DRG. Both prefer safe macro style, which I appreciate, but there style gives too much away for their opponents to exploit. In the current state of SC2, you need to mix it up and apply pressure, while being able to macro. You can't simply macro perfectly and expect to win because the aggressor will almost always take the initiative. Unless the aggressor botches the attacks horribly or fails at macro, s/he will have the advantage for the large part of the game.
As far as I remember, rushers tends to be more succesful in RTS, against the conventional wisdom of defender's advantage. Early attacks not only can disrupt the game plan of macro-opening, but also brings out mistakes from the defender due to psychological stress.
On April 29 2012 14:08 Mortalfury wrote: Also basing a players skill solely off of GSL results is ridiculous... MVP made it further than MKP but I think most people would agree MKP is better. GSL is the biggest tournament in starcraft but trying to put a value on round of 16 vs round of 8 or even round of 32 is impossible, Starcraft is a game where even the best players will lose a bo3 to someone they should probably beat... Just because MC faltered in GSL on one night doesn't make any worse, especially considering he wasn't eliminated by any zergs
uhh hell no. Most people would NOT agree that MKP is better than Mvp.
Yeah he should have rephrased. Most people who have watched sc2 recently would agree that MKP is better than MVP. Easy fix.
in his current state sure, mkp is better, mvp as long as he can put the time in to practice tho is fairly hard to beat.. they are different tho.
MKP is more like speed and raw talent whereas MVP is just solid play with sound decisions. personally i prefer MVP to MKP but sadly MVP can't really keep up the practice regimen with medical problems in the way T_T
Stephano had all to gain, MC all to lose in this match.
In the end, MC got nothing except the certainty that he still "got this". Stephano lost nothing; he's still the best foreigner. But that title may mean just a teensy bit less today.
On April 29 2012 14:08 Mortalfury wrote: Also basing a players skill solely off of GSL results is ridiculous... MVP made it further than MKP but I think most people would agree MKP is better. GSL is the biggest tournament in starcraft but trying to put a value on round of 16 vs round of 8 or even round of 32 is impossible, Starcraft is a game where even the best players will lose a bo3 to someone they should probably beat... Just because MC faltered in GSL on one night doesn't make any worse, especially considering he wasn't eliminated by any zergs
uhh hell no. Most people would NOT agree that MKP is better than Mvp.
Yeah he should have rephrased. Most people who have watched sc2 recently would agree that MKP is better than MVP. Easy fix.
in his current state sure, mkp is better, mvp as long as he can put the time in to practice tho is fairly hard to beat.. they are different tho.
MKP is more like speed and raw talent whereas MVP is just solid play with sound decisions. personally i prefer MVP to MKP but sadly MVP can't really keep up the practice regimen with medical problems in the way T_T
Lol what? MVP at last year had the best micro/macro + decision making. Thats why he was so dominant. You don't get to win almost every major tournament within a 3 month period if you just have "solid play with sound decisions". Sure MVP's macro and micro isn't as good as it used to be or have been overtaken by others, but don't make him sound like a Supernova when his period of dominance was still the most dominant in the history of the game so far.
On April 29 2012 15:53 Chunhyang wrote: Stephano had all to gain, MC all to lose in this match.
In the end, MC got nothing except the certainty that he still "got this". Stephano lost nothing; he's still the best foreigner. But that title may mean just a teensy bit less today.
All to gain? Stephano proves that his ZvP can't compete with MC PvZ.
On April 29 2012 15:53 Chunhyang wrote: Stephano had all to gain, MC all to lose in this match.
In the end, MC got nothing except the certainty that he still "got this". Stephano lost nothing; he's still the best foreigner. But that title may mean just a teensy bit less today.
All to gain? Stephano proves that his ZvP can't compete with MC PvZ.
I think he meant, stephano had all to gain because if he won people would be spouting best zvp in world again, but if mc won, nothing would change for him. However, if mc lost it would hurt him more whereas if stephano lost like he did, not much is said.
On April 29 2012 15:53 Chunhyang wrote: Stephano had all to gain, MC all to lose in this match.
In the end, MC got nothing except the certainty that he still "got this". Stephano lost nothing; he's still the best foreigner. But that title may mean just a teensy bit less today.
All to gain? Stephano proves that his ZvP can't compete with MC PvZ.
On April 29 2012 15:53 Chunhyang wrote: Stephano had all to gain, MC all to lose in this match.
In the end, MC got nothing except the certainty that he still "got this". Stephano lost nothing; he's still the best foreigner. But that title may mean just a teensy bit less today.
All to gain? Stephano proves that his ZvP can't compete with MC PvZ.
It is pretty obvious he can compete with him by the fact that he won some games and was leading for a short while.
However these games do not matter that much since they where cross server.
Nice play by MC! He realized that Stephano's style is basically immune to gateway/gateway immortal pressure but weaker to stargate play and took advantage of it. All credit to Stephano though- the series was close and that's impressive against arguably the best PvZer around at the moment. Definitely a good sign for his code S prospects.
On April 29 2012 16:18 Ghardo wrote: How does leading after 5 matches translate into being unable to compete with MC's PvZ? o_O
In a Bo5 he would have won.
Silly argument. One can easily say MC would have even earlier in Bo3 as well.
The only thing one can take away from this, is that while Stephano isn't better than MC in this matchup, he can still compete with him in it.
Bo1: Stephano wins Bo3: MC wins Bo5: Stephano wins Bo7: MC wins Bo9: MC wins
MC's results got better as the series went on due to his experience in the match-up. MC tried a bunch of things against Stephano - immortal expands, two base blink timings, void ray zealot, standard star gate harass, 3 gate, colossi pushes, etc., before deciding that star gate play was the way to go against Stephano. He showcased a huge variety of styles, all of which he performed to a Code S standard.
This is the advantage he had over Stephano - his experience and knowledge. Foreigner players, Stephano included, do not have a variety of styles. They find one that works for them and stick to it. This allows you to take games and matches off of the best Koreans, but when it comes to Bo9s, you're at a disadvantage because whereas they are able to switch styles and experiment, you're stuck to your style and have to hope that they don't have a style that counters yours.
Stephano is the first player who I thought had the ability to play a huge variety of styles because he learns and adapts quickly, but he has to get over his refusal to practice 10-12+ hours a day because practicing 3-4 hours a day just won't cut it when you're traveling to tournaments all the time - you don't have the time to practice a huge variety of styles and have to rely on a few, which is what Stephano does.
On April 29 2012 18:20 Shaddar wrote: Thank God MC won, nice play by him. Hopefully some of the Stephano fanboys will calm down a bit now, he's good but way overhyped.
losing to arguably the best protoss in the world 3-5 in a best of 9 doesn't mean he's overhyped. lol.
On April 29 2012 18:20 Shaddar wrote: Thank God MC won, nice play by him. Hopefully some of the Stephano fanboys will calm down a bit now, he's good but way overhyped.
losing to arguably the best protoss in the world 3-5 in a best of 9 doesn't mean he's overhyped. lol.
Don't bother. Some people hate a player because of their fans. It's like hating a country for its inhabitants it's low and shows a great deal of ignorance (also that's called being xenophobic), in the General Discussion that is frown upon but here you are free to insult anyone as long as you use the word fanboy.
On April 29 2012 18:20 Shaddar wrote: Thank God MC won, nice play by him. Hopefully some of the Stephano fanboys will calm down a bit now, he's good but way overhyped.
losing to arguably the best protoss in the world 3-5 in a best of 9 doesn't mean he's overhyped. lol.
god people make me laugh, yes how bad is Stephano losing to MC..... hahahah. Sorry this wasnt somescrub, this was MC.... MC you know who is a great pvZ player, has the experience of where he shows up quite often after sometimesperforming bad... nothing wrong with losing to MC at all....
people are tlaking like he lost 5-0.... and no games were close... lol
On April 29 2012 15:53 Chunhyang wrote: Stephano had all to gain, MC all to lose in this match.
In the end, MC got nothing except the certainty that he still "got this". Stephano lost nothing; he's still the best foreigner. But that title may mean just a teensy bit less today.
All to gain? Stephano proves that his ZvP can't compete with MC PvZ.
How does losing 3-5 translate into not being able to compete? He couldn't beat MCs PvZ in a Bo9 but he certainly competed for it, for example if it were a Bo5 he would've won and winning a Bo5 is still pretty legit.
On April 29 2012 15:53 Chunhyang wrote: Stephano had all to gain, MC all to lose in this match.
In the end, MC got nothing except the certainty that he still "got this". Stephano lost nothing; he's still the best foreigner. But that title may mean just a teensy bit less today.
All to gain? Stephano proves that his ZvP can't compete with MC PvZ.
How does losing 3-5 translate into not being able to compete? He couldn't beat MCs PvZ in a Bo9 but he certainly competed for it, for example if it were a Bo5 he would've won and winning a Bo5 is still pretty legit.
I think i should phrased it as Stephano ZvP is not as good as MC PvZ. MC has won every head to head against Stephano.
The haters who thought Stephano would get absolutely destroyed 5-0...Where are they ?
Oh right, they're still here, talking like MC really won 5-0.
Guys, it was 5-3, not 5-0. All games were really close and it was very entertaining to watch.
MC is obviously the better player but Stephano definitely gave him a run for his money. I liked the part where MC said "Why are your roach so strong..Stephano's roach".
gg wp to both players.
Edit : If IGN read this : Please next time use cloaked result maps, thanks.
On April 29 2012 19:38 Lasbike wrote: The haters who thought Stephano would get absolutely destroyed 5-0...Where are they ?
Oh right, they're still here, talking like MC really won 5-0.
Guys, it was 5-3, not 5-0. All games were really close and it was very entertaining to watch.
MC is obviously the better player but Stephano definitely gave him a run for his money. I liked the part where MC said "Why are your roach so strong..Stephano's roach".
gg wp to both players.
Edit : If IGN read this : Please next time use cloaked result maps, thanks.
5-3 cross-server isn't that good of a result, since Nerchio even only get beaten 5-4 by Jjakji... I don't see Stephano winning MC anytime soon offline, but that's no shame MC has a very good PvZ right now.
I really like MC's use of the stargate to offset the 12 min max roach timing. It also gives him map control and make it easier to get a fast 3rd. Lately I have also seen how protoss players put the phoenix to good use later on in the game by lifting infestors. It makes a alot of difference in a fight.
but you got to admit though, MC is a lot more versatile as a player. he is one of the players who is virtually a master of any style. i dont really like MC, but i dont like stephano even more.
On April 29 2012 19:38 Lasbike wrote: The haters who thought Stephano would get absolutely destroyed 5-0...Where are they ?
Oh right, they're still here, talking like MC really won 5-0.
Guys, it was 5-3, not 5-0. All games were really close and it was very entertaining to watch.
MC is obviously the better player but Stephano definitely gave him a run for his money. I liked the part where MC said "Why are your roach so strong..Stephano's roach".
gg wp to both players.
Edit : If IGN read this : Please next time use cloaked result maps, thanks.
The same could be said for the haters who thought MC would be destroyed could it not?
On April 29 2012 19:38 Lasbike wrote: The haters who thought Stephano would get absolutely destroyed 5-0...Where are they ?
Oh right, they're still here, talking like MC really won 5-0.
Guys, it was 5-3, not 5-0. All games were really close and it was very entertaining to watch.
MC is obviously the better player but Stephano definitely gave him a run for his money. I liked the part where MC said "Why are your roach so strong..Stephano's roach".
gg wp to both players.
Edit : If IGN read this : Please next time use cloaked result maps, thanks.
The same could be said for the haters who thought MC would be destroyed could it not?
I don't know who, in their right mind, could say that Stephano would 5-0 MC.
Does this mean CatsPajamas knew the results before the broadcast? Is the broadcast not live or did CP just know the results for the series that he was going to cast? Seems kind of bad for IPL to tell their casters the results before broadcasting
Does this mean CatsPajamas knew the results before the broadcast? Is the broadcast not live or did CP just know the results for the series that he was going to cast? Seems kind of bad for IPL to tell their casters the results before broadcasting
The cast was pre-recorded, they don't cast on weekends.
On April 29 2012 15:53 Chunhyang wrote: Stephano had all to gain, MC all to lose in this match.
In the end, MC got nothing except the certainty that he still "got this". Stephano lost nothing; he's still the best foreigner. But that title may mean just a teensy bit less today.
All to gain? Stephano proves that his ZvP can't compete with MC PvZ.
What are you talking about watch the first 5 games where Stephano playes his normall ZvP style and he won 3-2. Then he decide to use his spire and baneling builds and he only does that when he is not taking things serious anymore.
Stephano just showed the first 5 games he can beat MC
Does Stephano still think Protoss needs a buff, and Zerg can just play the same opening every game and be safe against everything? Because he didn't look like he was very safe yesterday...
On April 29 2012 15:53 Chunhyang wrote: Stephano had all to gain, MC all to lose in this match.
In the end, MC got nothing except the certainty that he still "got this". Stephano lost nothing; he's still the best foreigner. But that title may mean just a teensy bit less today.
All to gain? Stephano proves that his ZvP can't compete with MC PvZ.
What are you talking about watch the first 5 games where Stephano playes his normall ZvP style and he won 3-2. Then he decide to use his spire and baneling builds and he only does that when he is not taking things serious anymore.
Stephano just showed the first 5 games he can beat MC
Why would he randomly decide to stop taking things seriously in the middle of a bo9?
On April 29 2012 19:38 Lasbike wrote: The haters who thought Stephano would get absolutely destroyed 5-0...Where are they ?
Oh right, they're still here, talking like MC really won 5-0.
Guys, it was 5-3, not 5-0. All games were really close and it was very entertaining to watch.
MC is obviously the better player but Stephano definitely gave him a run for his money. I liked the part where MC said "Why are your roach so strong..Stephano's roach".
gg wp to both players.
Edit : If IGN read this : Please next time use cloaked result maps, thanks.
Where's the half of the voters who actually thought Stephano would win, despite him always losing to MC? Rooting for Stephano and thinking he'll win are two different things.
And while I do think that most of the games were very close and entertaining to watch, some of them (like standard 3gate pressure into Stephano just dying) could have been better. Quite frankly, I feel that MC made the games far more interesting than Stephano did. MC was the innovator of the showmatch without a doubt, keeping Stephano on his toes with really smart and interesting play.
Cloaked maps are definitely a great idea and gg wp to both players indeed ^^
It's amazing how many people are speaking as if MC outclassed Stephano. The series started out 3-2... if it was a bo5 Stephano would have won. That's not dominating someone by any means and it's worth noting that Stephano used some strange, non-optimal builds towards the end. Had he continued simply going 3 bases + roach maxing he could very well have won.
On April 29 2012 22:42 sitromit wrote: Does Stephano still think Protoss needs a buff, and Zerg can just play the same opening every game and be safe against everything? Because he didn't look like he was very safe yesterday...
He was perfectly safe while using the roach max which is what that was in reference to. It's when he strayed from the standard approach that he had problems, so I don't know what you're talking about.
On April 29 2012 22:49 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Where's the half of the voters who actually thought Stephano would win, despite him always losing to MC? Rooting for Stephano and thinking he'll win are two different things.
And predicting someone will win and that someone will dominate are two very different things.
On April 29 2012 22:58 Silvertine wrote: It's amazing how many people are speaking as if MC outclassed Stephano. The series started out 3-2... if it was a bo5 Stephano would have won. That's not dominating someone by any means and it's worth noting that Stephano used some strange, non-optimal builds towards the end. Had he continued simply going 3 bases + roach maxing he could very well have won.
On April 29 2012 22:42 sitromit wrote: Does Stephano still think Protoss needs a buff, and Zerg can just play the same opening every game and be safe against everything? Because he didn't look like he was very safe yesterday...
He was perfectly safe while using the roach max which it was that was in reference to. It's when he strayed from the standard approach that he had problems, so I don't know what you're talking about.
LOL! Really now? And what exactly was he trying to do in the last game, if not a 3 base Roach push, when MC stopped it with his airplay and counterattacked for the win?
He said "I feel bad for Protosses, there's nothing they can do against me, I think Blizzard needs to do something". It sure didn't look like there was nothing MC could do, rather the other way around..
And what you call non-standard.. Do you think he went for the Muta play and the Baneling Bust on those maps for fun? Or was it because he knew his standard Roach play wasn't going to work every time, like it does against Grubby?
On April 29 2012 22:58 Silvertine wrote: It's amazing how many people are speaking as if MC outclassed Stephano. The series started out 3-2... if it was a bo5 Stephano would have won. That's not dominating someone by any means and it's worth noting that Stephano used some strange, non-optimal builds towards the end. Had he continued simply going 3 bases + roach maxing he could very well have won.
On April 29 2012 22:42 sitromit wrote: Does Stephano still think Protoss needs a buff, and Zerg can just play the same opening every game and be safe against everything? Because he didn't look like he was very safe yesterday...
He was perfectly safe while using the roach max which it was that was in reference to. It's when he strayed from the standard approach that he had problems, so I don't know what you're talking about.
LOL! Really now? And what exactly was he trying to do in the last game, if not a 3 base Roach push, when MC stopped it with his airplay and counterattacked for the win?
Did I claim that Stephano won every single game in which he went standard? They split the games in which there was a roach max, I would say that makes it perfectly safe.
He said "I feel bad for Protosses, there's nothing they can do against me, I think Blizzard needs to do something". It sure didn't look like there was nothing MC could do, rather the other way around..
You're implying that there was nothing Stephano could do against MC when the series began 3-2...
He's really in a no-win situation when it comes to commenting on balance in ZvP. If he tells the honest truth then people like you will foolishly mock him for narrowly losing to the best protoss player ever. If he instead says that it's perfectly balanced even more protoss players will whine that he's biased and taking undeserved credit for his general domination in the match up.
And what you call non-standard.. Do you think he went for the Muta play and the Baneling Bust on those maps for fun? Or was it because he knew his standard Roach play wasn't going to work every time, like it does against Grubby
I don't 'call it non-standard'... it is non-standard. And as for his reasons, who knows. He seems like a pretty loose guy though.
On April 29 2012 22:58 Silvertine wrote: It's amazing how many people are speaking as if MC outclassed Stephano. The series started out 3-2... if it was a bo5 Stephano would have won. That's not dominating someone by any means and it's worth noting that Stephano used some strange, non-optimal builds towards the end. Had he continued simply going 3 bases + roach maxing he could very well have won.
On April 29 2012 22:42 sitromit wrote: Does Stephano still think Protoss needs a buff, and Zerg can just play the same opening every game and be safe against everything? Because he didn't look like he was very safe yesterday...
He was perfectly safe while using the roach max which it was that was in reference to. It's when he strayed from the standard approach that he had problems, so I don't know what you're talking about.
LOL! Really now? And what exactly was he trying to do in the last game, if not a 3 base Roach push, when MC stopped it with his airplay and counterattacked for the win?
Did I claim that Stephano won every single game in which he went standard? They split the games in which there was a roach max, I would say that makes it perfectly safe.
He said "I feel bad for Protosses, there's nothing they can do against me, I think Blizzard needs to do something". It sure didn't look like there was nothing MC could do, rather the other way around..
You're implying that there was nothing Stephano could do against MC when the series began 3-2...
He's really in a no-win situation when it comes to commenting on balance in ZvP. If he tells the honest truth then people like you will foolishly mock him for narrowly losing to the best protoss player ever. If he instead says that it's perfectly balanced even more protoss players will whine that he's biased and taking undeserved credit for his general domination in the match up.
And what you call non-standard.. Do you think he went for the Muta play and the Baneling Bust on those maps for fun? Or was it because he knew his standard Roach play wasn't going to work every time, like it does against Grubby
I don't 'call it non-standard'... it is non-standard. And as for his reasons, who knows. He seems like a pretty loose guy though.
And you define what's standard? Wasn't Muta play standard against Protoss until recently, when everyone was whining about how it was unbeatable?
He went Mutas on that map, because he saw that there was no way he was breaking MCs 3rd with a Roach push with air units out.
The Baneling bust, he tried to mix it up, because he saw he couldn't do the same build every time and get away with it, plain and simple..
He's dominant against foreign Protoss.. Since he made his arrogant balance comments, he played against 3 Koreans, won one 2-1, lost the other 2.
On April 29 2012 22:58 Silvertine wrote: The series started out 3-2... if it was a bo5 Stephano would have won.
And if it were a best of 3, MC would have won 2-1. MC winning twice as many games as Stephano! And if it were a best of 1, Stephano would have won 1-0. What a shutout!
I really hate when people hypothetically reduce (or extend) the showmatch to a different BoX, because they're just extrapolating results without taking into account the fact that the players may have played differently. The players planned on playing a Best of 9, so they're going to try out certain builds and strategies with this specifically in mind (as opposed to planning for a Bo1 or a Bo5, etc.).
Yeah, well, if it were a Best of 31, MC totally would have won every single remaining game after the real Best of 9 ended, making it 16-3 instead of 5-3, so your argument is invalid.
Actually, every game Stephano could and went for that mass roaches pressure he either won that game just there (game 2 and 3) or did insane damage at the very least.
Even in the last game, Stephano suicided his whole army of roaches to kill Protoss third and then fend-off MC counter-attack because of Zerg macro mechanics (he lost later on for other reasons). That just shouldn't happen in a serious RTS. Also losing every single infestors in g1 due to silver league control and then coming back due to the fact that Protoss can't beat a too large fleet of broodlords (I wish commentators would shut up about archon toilet being a valid counter to mass broodlords, this has been a desperate move since day 1 and even in my master league this tends to work less and less) was quite funny considering that we keep on hearing about the famous "Protoss deathball" all the time; a deathball which can't hold a candle to the Zerg fleet is not a deathball, it's a jokeball.
And to not be accused of total Protoss bias, I have to say that indefinitely forcefielding a ramp while ravaging the main is a bit of a joke that I hope will be fixed in HoTS as well.
On April 29 2012 22:58 Silvertine wrote: It's amazing how many people are speaking as if MC outclassed Stephano. The series started out 3-2... if it was a bo5 Stephano would have won. That's not dominating someone by any means and it's worth noting that Stephano used some strange, non-optimal builds towards the end. Had he continued simply going 3 bases + roach maxing he could very well have won.
On April 29 2012 22:42 sitromit wrote: Does Stephano still think Protoss needs a buff, and Zerg can just play the same opening every game and be safe against everything? Because he didn't look like he was very safe yesterday...
He was perfectly safe while using the roach max which it was that was in reference to. It's when he strayed from the standard approach that he had problems, so I don't know what you're talking about.
LOL! Really now? And what exactly was he trying to do in the last game, if not a 3 base Roach push, when MC stopped it with his airplay and counterattacked for the win?
Did I claim that Stephano won every single game in which he went standard? They split the games in which there was a roach max, I would say that makes it perfectly safe.
He said "I feel bad for Protosses, there's nothing they can do against me, I think Blizzard needs to do something". It sure didn't look like there was nothing MC could do, rather the other way around..
You're implying that there was nothing Stephano could do against MC when the series began 3-2...
He's really in a no-win situation when it comes to commenting on balance in ZvP. If he tells the honest truth then people like you will foolishly mock him for narrowly losing to the best protoss player ever. If he instead says that it's perfectly balanced even more protoss players will whine that he's biased and taking undeserved credit for his general domination in the match up.
And what you call non-standard.. Do you think he went for the Muta play and the Baneling Bust on those maps for fun? Or was it because he knew his standard Roach play wasn't going to work every time, like it does against Grubby
I don't 'call it non-standard'... it is non-standard. And as for his reasons, who knows. He seems like a pretty loose guy though.
And you define what's standard? Wasn't Muta play standard against Protoss until recently, when everyone was whining about how it was unbeatable?
'Until recently' being the operative words.
The Baneling bust, he tried to mix it up, because he saw he couldn't do the same build every time and get away with it, plain and simple..
A baseless assumption, plain and simple. There is no hard counter to 3 base roach max, so the idea that it's a risky strat he couldn't get away with again is silly.
He's dominant against foreign Protoss.. Since he made his arrogant balance comments, he played against 3 Koreans, won one 2-1, lost the other 2.
A protoss player outraged that a zerg player said the match up favors zerg. It's just funny to me, what can I say?
On April 29 2012 22:58 Silvertine wrote: The series started out 3-2... if it was a bo5 Stephano would have won.
And if it were a best of 3, MC would have won 2-1. MC winning twice as many games as Stephano! And if it were a best of 1, Stephano would have won 1-0. What a shutout!
I really hate when people hypothetically reduce (or extend) the showmatch to a different BoX, because they're just extrapolating results without taking into account the fact that the players may have played differently. The players planned on playing a Best of 9, so they're going to try out certain builds and strategies with this specifically in mind (as opposed to planning for a Bo1 or a Bo5, etc.).
Yeah, well, if it were a Best of 31, MC totally would have won every single remaining game after the real Best of 9 ended, making it 16-3 instead of 5-3, so your argument is invalid.
I knew this illogical response would come, I should have preempted it. I was very clearly making the point that a series that starts off 3-2 can not be viewed as utter domination. How you managed to misunderstand that I don't know.
Guys why bother talking about stephano can or cannot "compete" ? The only thing that matters is a win. Oh OK Stephano can "compete" with MC, but you know what, he still never won a head-to-head against him. Never. Does that hurt your feelings?
On April 29 2012 15:53 Chunhyang wrote: Stephano had all to gain, MC all to lose in this match.
In the end, MC got nothing except the certainty that he still "got this". Stephano lost nothing; he's still the best foreigner. But that title may mean just a teensy bit less today.
All to gain? Stephano proves that his ZvP can't compete with MC PvZ.
What are you talking about watch the first 5 games where Stephano playes his normall ZvP style and he won 3-2. Then he decide to use his spire and baneling builds and he only does that when he is not taking things serious anymore.
Stephano just showed the first 5 games he can beat MC
hahah, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
on that level, you can't do the same build over and over. especially different maps. there's a thing called adapting and mind games.
On April 30 2012 00:28 chosenkerrigan wrote: The only thing that matters is a win. Oh OK Stephano can "compete" with MC, but you know what, he still never won a head-to-head against him. Never. Does that hurt your feelings?
Stating an obvious fact which no one disputes and then asking if it hurts people's feelings for no apparent reason. OK...
On April 30 2012 00:28 chosenkerrigan wrote: The only thing that matters is a win. Oh OK Stephano can "compete" with MC, but you know what, he still never won a head-to-head against him. Never. Does that hurt your feelings?
Stating an obvious fact which no one disputes and then asking if it hurts people's feelings for no apparent reason. OK...
My point is if he's never able to edge out a series win against MC for a million times, then he should not be able to "compete" with MC. That's just my definition of "compete" though.
On April 30 2012 00:28 chosenkerrigan wrote: The only thing that matters is a win. Oh OK Stephano can "compete" with MC, but you know what, he still never won a head-to-head against him. Never. Does that hurt your feelings?
Stating an obvious fact which no one disputes and then asking if it hurts people's feelings for no apparent reason. OK...
My point is if he's never able to edge out a series win against MC for a million times, then he should not be able to "compete" with MC. That's just my definition of "compete" though.
You're wrong in a million ways...if you saw yesterday's game, you'd have understood by now that MC and Stephano had really close games before Stephano started doing weird things(which i think was due to fatigue or boredom).MC also said he enjoyed playing against Stephano since he's a great zerg player(which he compared to DRG b4).That's coming from the same guy who raped so many zergs this year(best PvZ in the world this year).
On April 30 2012 00:28 chosenkerrigan wrote: The only thing that matters is a win. Oh OK Stephano can "compete" with MC, but you know what, he still never won a head-to-head against him. Never. Does that hurt your feelings?
Stating an obvious fact which no one disputes and then asking if it hurts people's feelings for no apparent reason. OK...
My point is if he's never able to edge out a series win against MC for a million times, then he should not be able to "compete" with MC. That's just my definition of "compete" though.
You're wrong in a million ways...if you saw yesterday's game, you'd have understood by now that MC and Stephano had really close games before Stephano started doing weird things(which i think was due to fatigue or boredom).MC also said he enjoyed playing against Stephano since he's a great zerg player(which he compared to DRG b4).That's coming from the same guy who raped so many zergs this year(best PvZ in the world this year).
Of course he would say Stephano's a great zerg..are u expecting him to say Stephano sucks? Koreans almost always praise foreigners' skills. That doesn't mean Stephano would be an equally strong opponent for MC. Is it really that hard to understand?
Wow... watching the first game, I didn't realize before just how much difference the lag actually made. MC didn't even bother to blink stalkers individually, Stephano didn't move his Infestors away when they got Feedbacked... sure, it's possible that was a mistake, but I doubt he'd make that kind of mistake.
I'm usually rooting for foreigners in these matchups but TBH I'm glad stephano lost this series , just to wipe that smug look off his face and show him that zerg don't just get to 'win' against toss with the same build. Put him against a toss like MC that really knows how to abuse a zerg and he just loses.
Not a bad result for either of the players, Stephano shows he can compete with MC and that he actually CAN take a BO5 out of him (not a BO7 tho ), and MC shows he is MC, with an excellent understanding of the PvZ matchup.
What amuses is people stating Stephano is obviously better than MC and didn't take the match seriously (lol) and others saying MC trashed Stephano and that Stephano didn't stand a chance (ahah). Both of the statements are and wrong and stupid, 5 - 3 is a close result and could have gone either way. MC still has the edge, but for the first time he was threatened GL to him against Polt, his PvT is a bit rocky, let's see what he has in his bags !
On April 30 2012 02:35 Ylrahc wrote: Not a bad result for either of the players, Stephano shows he can compete with MC and that he actually CAN take a BO5 out of him (not a BO7 tho ), and MC shows he is MC, with an excellent understanding of the PvZ matchup.
What amuses is people stating Stephano is obviously better than MC and didn't take the match seriously (lol) and others saying MC trashed Stephano and that Stephano didn't stand a chance (ahah). Both of the statements are and wrong and stupid, 5 - 3 is a close result and could have gone either way. MC still has the edge, but for the first time he was threatened GL to him against Polt, his PvT is a bit rocky, let's see what he has in his bags !
And your statement is also wrong. He didn't win a BO5 but lost a BO7. Players play adapt their play to the format. If this would've been a BO5, MC and Stephano would've played different. If it would've been a Bo3, things would've turned out differently. The only fact we know: MC won the series, that's it. He lost nothing but 3 maps to Stephano. This is a big accomplishment and both, fans of Stehpano aswell as MC fans can be proud of the outcome. But still, one palyer wins, the other loses. That's how it rolls
On April 30 2012 02:35 Ylrahc wrote: Not a bad result for either of the players, Stephano shows he can compete with MC and that he actually CAN take a BO5 out of him (not a BO7 tho ), and MC shows he is MC, with an excellent understanding of the PvZ matchup.
What amuses is people stating Stephano is obviously better than MC and didn't take the match seriously (lol) and others saying MC trashed Stephano and that Stephano didn't stand a chance (ahah). Both of the statements are and wrong and stupid, 5 - 3 is a close result and could have gone either way. MC still has the edge, but for the first time he was threatened GL to him against Polt, his PvT is a bit rocky, let's see what he has in his bags !
And your statement is also wrong. He didn't win a BO5 but lost a BO7. Players play adapt their play to the format. If this would've been a BO5, MC and Stephano would've played different. If it would've been a Bo3, things would've turned out differently. The only fact we know: MC won the series, that's it. He lost nothing but 3 maps to Stephano. This is a big accomplishment and both, fans of Stehpano aswell as MC fans can be proud of the outcome. But still, one palyer wins, the other loses. That's how it rolls
Is not. Semantics are important, I stated he can, not that he did Rest of your post I agree with, it's basically paraphrasing what I said anyway.
Great series overall. A lot of different strategies utilized by both guys. I don't really understand all the arguing int his thread though, as this one match pretty much proves nothing (the games were very even overall).
On April 30 2012 02:35 Ylrahc wrote: Not a bad result for either of the players, Stephano shows he can compete with MC and that he actually CAN take a BO5 out of him (not a BO7 tho ), and MC shows he is MC, with an excellent understanding of the PvZ matchup.
What amuses is people stating Stephano is obviously better than MC and didn't take the match seriously (lol) and others saying MC trashed Stephano and that Stephano didn't stand a chance (ahah). Both of the statements are and wrong and stupid, 5 - 3 is a close result and could have gone either way. MC still has the edge, but for the first time he was threatened GL to him against Polt, his PvT is a bit rocky, let's see what he has in his bags !
MC's style doesn't matchup to the current state of PvT at all well. Basically, he likes to dely getting upgrades in favour of putting out more units earlier and trying to get other forms of splash out. Given that PvT is all about trying to get faster upgrades and Protoss is the one trying to defend the 3rd base nowadays, MC's play just doesn't stand up to standard Terrans.
The only thing he's got going for him is his control in PvT. He is the suicide-toss who can lose 0-3 to Ganzi and 1-2 to Virus/Maru, yet be boss enough to go 2-1 against MKP and is one of only 3 Protoss players to take a series off him this year (Parting and Squirtle being the other two).
If Polt plays standard, MC will lose. If Polt plays overly aggressive or overly greedily, MC will pull through.
On April 30 2012 02:35 Ylrahc wrote: Not a bad result for either of the players, Stephano shows he can compete with MC and that he actually CAN take a BO5 out of him (not a BO7 tho ), and MC shows he is MC, with an excellent understanding of the PvZ matchup.
What amuses is people stating Stephano is obviously better than MC and didn't take the match seriously (lol) and others saying MC trashed Stephano and that Stephano didn't stand a chance (ahah). Both of the statements are and wrong and stupid, 5 - 3 is a close result and could have gone either way. MC still has the edge, but for the first time he was threatened GL to him against Polt, his PvT is a bit rocky, let's see what he has in his bags !
And your statement is also wrong. He didn't win a BO5 but lost a BO7.
On April 30 2012 02:35 Ylrahc wrote: Not a bad result for either of the players, Stephano shows he can compete with MC and that he actually CAN take a BO5 out of him (not a BO7 tho ), and MC shows he is MC, with an excellent understanding of the PvZ matchup.
What amuses is people stating Stephano is obviously better than MC and didn't take the match seriously (lol) and others saying MC trashed Stephano and that Stephano didn't stand a chance (ahah). Both of the statements are and wrong and stupid, 5 - 3 is a close result and could have gone either way. MC still has the edge, but for the first time he was threatened GL to him against Polt, his PvT is a bit rocky, let's see what he has in his bags !
MC's style doesn't matchup to the current state of PvT at all well. Basically, he likes to dely getting upgrades in favour of putting out more units earlier and trying to get other forms of splash out. Given that PvT is all about trying to get faster upgrades and Protoss is the one trying to defend the 3rd base nowadays, MC's play just doesn't stand up to standard Terrans.
The only thing he's got going for him is his control in PvT. He is the suicide-toss who can lose 0-3 to Ganzi and 1-2 to Virus/Maru, yet be boss enough to go 2-1 against MKP and is one of only 3 Protoss players to take a series off him this year (Parting and Squirtle being the other two).
If Polt plays standard, MC will lose. If Polt plays overly aggressive or overly greedily, MC will pull through.
I wish there was a +1 option on TL. Interesting post, thanks !
On April 30 2012 02:35 Ylrahc wrote: Not a bad result for either of the players, Stephano shows he can compete with MC and that he actually CAN take a BO5 out of him (not a BO7 tho ), and MC shows he is MC, with an excellent understanding of the PvZ matchup.
What amuses is people stating Stephano is obviously better than MC and didn't take the match seriously (lol) and others saying MC trashed Stephano and that Stephano didn't stand a chance (ahah). Both of the statements are and wrong and stupid, 5 - 3 is a close result and could have gone either way. MC still has the edge, but for the first time he was threatened GL to him against Polt, his PvT is a bit rocky, let's see what he has in his bags !
MC's style doesn't matchup to the current state of PvT at all well. Basically, he likes to dely getting upgrades in favour of putting out more units earlier and trying to get other forms of splash out. Given that PvT is all about trying to get faster upgrades and Protoss is the one trying to defend the 3rd base nowadays, MC's play just doesn't stand up to standard Terrans.
The only thing he's got going for him is his control in PvT. He is the suicide-toss who can lose 0-3 to Ganzi and 1-2 to Virus/Maru, yet be boss enough to go 2-1 against MKP and is one of only 3 Protoss players to take a series off him this year (Parting and Squirtle being the other two).
If Polt plays standard, MC will lose. If Polt plays overly aggressive or overly greedily, MC will pull through.
MC always seems a bit late to adapt, if he adapts at all. He seems to REALLY try to make his way of playing work before he ventures out into something new. Will be interesting to see if he can bring something new to this FC, as his PvT has looked archaic lately.
On April 29 2012 14:08 Mortalfury wrote: Also basing a players skill solely off of GSL results is ridiculous... MVP made it further than MKP but I think most people who have watched SC2 recently would agree MKP is better. GSL is the biggest tournament in starcraft but trying to put a value on round of 16 vs round of 8 or even round of 32 is impossible, Starcraft is a game where even the best players will lose a bo3 to someone they should probably beat... Just because MC faltered in GSL on one night doesn't make him any worse, especially in pvz considering he wasn't eliminated by any zergs! Great games by both players and glad to see MC and Stephano getting along and another Code S player complimenting Stephano's abilities, maybe not the last foreign hope but probably the best (or NaNi)
Thanks Bibbit, I fixed it... Unacceptable mistake really
Recently, yes MKP has looked better than Mvp, but please do remember MKP has never beaten Mvp is a Best of series.
On April 29 2012 14:08 Mortalfury wrote: Also basing a players skill solely off of GSL results is ridiculous... MVP made it further than MKP but I think most people who have watched SC2 recently would agree MKP is better. GSL is the biggest tournament in starcraft but trying to put a value on round of 16 vs round of 8 or even round of 32 is impossible, Starcraft is a game where even the best players will lose a bo3 to someone they should probably beat... Just because MC faltered in GSL on one night doesn't make him any worse, especially in pvz considering he wasn't eliminated by any zergs! Great games by both players and glad to see MC and Stephano getting along and another Code S player complimenting Stephano's abilities, maybe not the last foreign hope but probably the best (or NaNi)
Thanks Bibbit, I fixed it... Unacceptable mistake really
Recently, yes MKP has looked better than Mvp, but please do remember MKP has never beaten Mvp is a Best of series.
I'm the biggest Mvp fan ever and I will support him to the day I die but MKP has looked stronger in every MU lately. I would not consider Mvp a favorite in head to head unless MKP has a huge mental block against him.
lol if anything this showmatch was GREAT for Stephano he now knows his ZvP is weak to Stargate play and can train to improve in that regard... You forget that previous Stephano wasnt playing top koreans but top protosses in europe and they are nothing to the Korean Protosses!
Should be great to see him after training with korean players more often!! He will be a beast compared to European and Americans then!
On April 30 2012 02:35 Ylrahc wrote: Not a bad result for either of the players, Stephano shows he can compete with MC and that he actually CAN take a BO5 out of him (not a BO7 tho ), and MC shows he is MC, with an excellent understanding of the PvZ matchup.
What amuses is people stating Stephano is obviously better than MC and didn't take the match seriously (lol) and others saying MC trashed Stephano and that Stephano didn't stand a chance (ahah). Both of the statements are and wrong and stupid, 5 - 3 is a close result and could have gone either way. MC still has the edge, but for the first time he was threatened GL to him against Polt, his PvT is a bit rocky, let's see what he has in his bags !
MC's style doesn't matchup to the current state of PvT at all well. Basically, he likes to dely getting upgrades in favour of putting out more units earlier and trying to get other forms of splash out. Given that PvT is all about trying to get faster upgrades and Protoss is the one trying to defend the 3rd base nowadays, MC's play just doesn't stand up to standard Terrans.
The only thing he's got going for him is his control in PvT. He is the suicide-toss who can lose 0-3 to Ganzi and 1-2 to Virus/Maru, yet be boss enough to go 2-1 against MKP and is one of only 3 Protoss players to take a series off him this year (Parting and Squirtle being the other two).
If Polt plays standard, MC will lose. If Polt plays overly aggressive or overly greedily, MC will pull through.
Yeah, last time they met Polt crushed him. He's going to need to figure something out against Polt is he's to have a chance.
I knew this illogical response would come, I should have preempted it. I was very clearly making the point that a series that starts off 3-2 can not be viewed as utter domination. How you managed to misunderstand that I don't know.
wtf how can a series "starts off 3-2"? You can't just randomly dissect a best of 9 and say "series started 3-2" lol.. fanboys these days
On April 30 2012 01:44 TheDna wrote: Wasnt IPL once with TB + Apollo or am i mixing something up? I was really disappointed when i tuned in and heard these casters
Yeah, I felt they missed a lot of things (Stephano goes 11 pool on Sanshorn Mists, then they say it's 15and wonder why MC goes forge first, not nexus, and adds an extra canon -_____________-)
EPT
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IPL Fight Club
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Facebook, ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xBVkG.png)
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YouTube, and Twitch.TV!
.
. Maybe 5-3 with MC winning, can't see it getting much closer than that.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/eYmiu.jpg)
