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Scan Invitational #4 Live Thread - Page 13

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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m0ck
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
4194 Posts
March 04 2012 21:21 GMT
#241
I still think it is worth mentioning that no zerg (beside DRG) is doing well in Korea. Zergs are struggling against top Korean P and especially T right now. It would be surprising if somehow Stephano was able to change that.
andis35
Profile Joined May 2011
Latvia346 Posts
March 04 2012 21:22 GMT
#242
On March 05 2012 06:20 hrvoje07 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2012 06:19 andis35 wrote:
On March 05 2012 06:17 Al Bundy wrote:
Stephano is the best foreigner, nothing more. There is no need to get angry over this discussion.

Naniwa, Huk, Sase, Thorzain ?

Huge winning record against huk and sase, and naniwa/thorzain are just not winning enough stuff like him


Beating Nestea and Leenock right each after another is not enough?
nam nam
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden4672 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-04 21:23:52
March 04 2012 21:22 GMT
#243
On March 05 2012 06:20 hrvoje07 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2012 06:19 andis35 wrote:
On March 05 2012 06:17 Al Bundy wrote:
Stephano is the best foreigner, nothing more. There is no need to get angry over this discussion.

Naniwa, Huk, Sase, Thorzain ?

Huge winning record against huk and sase, and naniwa/thorzain are just not winning enough stuff like him

Thorzain I agree with but it's not really fair to compare how much he's winning with players living in Korea. It will always favor a top eu or na player not living in Korea. If you want to argue he's better than Huk and Naniwa fine, but please don't use the amount of tournaments won as a argument.
Seraphone
Profile Joined January 2012
United Kingdom1219 Posts
March 04 2012 21:23 GMT
#244
On March 05 2012 06:20 revel8 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2012 06:08 Seraphone wrote:
On March 05 2012 05:55 Zealot Orgy wrote:
On March 05 2012 05:53 Seraphone wrote:
On March 05 2012 05:50 Crying wrote:
Stephano could easily be Code S , if he was training in Korea,that guy is a monster guys.


Just stop. Stephano's record vs top end Koreans is quite poor since ESWC.



2 messages in a row hating on Stephano, I know I shouldn't even answer, but whatever:

He said he can be in codeS, he didn't say he can beat every "top end Korean" he faces.


First of all let me just say, that Stephano is easily the best non Korean player right now. He's the most consistant, the most solid across all matchups and in general just clearly the best foreign player.

However, against Koreans he hasn't done that well since ESWC. And when he has beaten Koreans since then it's been against Code B Koreans like Puma.

Another thing is that people on TL/Reddit always say foreigners are Code S/A level but when they go to Korea they lose, always. Just look at Idra, Huk, Morrow, Thorzain, Sase, Naniwa, Sjow, Select, Tod.

All of them have been to Korea with all sorts of people thinking they are good enough for Code S and/or Code A and in most cases they have been raped. At best they do what Sjow did where he beats a poor player in Sjow's best matchup and his opponents worst and then get dropped soon after.

Not one single foreigner has ever won through Code B.

You are Code S/A level when you earn it and keep it like Huk did for a time. You're not Code A or S level by winning online/offline tournaments vs foreigners who are also not Code A. Whether Stephano could hang in Code A or S or not, he needs to prove it by winning three Code A games in a row and then maintaining his spot over a Code S season.

You can say that MKP and MC are the cream of the crop but neither made the Round of 4 in Code S. MKP didn't get out of the second group. Polt who slammed Stephano pretty hard at Assembly is in Code B. Code S (in fact GSL in general) is incredibly fucking difficult now and if you win 50% of your games (which Stephano doesn't, he wins under 50% of his games vs Koreans) you will at best be in Code A and even be in Code B.

Stephano's record vs Korean players on LAN who actually competed in Season 1 of GSL 2012.
0-2 vs MKP
0-2 vs MC
1-4 vs Polt.

You can bring up excuses for every game I'm sure (and people will) but that is not the record of a guy who is 'easily' Code S material.

Stephano is a really good player, the best outside of Korea but he doesn't show the consistantcey outside of Korea against Koreans to suggest he would make Code S the legitimate way, much less maintain his spots over the course of multiple seasons. That's even ignoring the clear advantage foreigners have in foreign tournaments, when all foreigners play worse in Korea and vice versa.


Are you ignoring Blizzard Cup results?


They weren't played in 2012.

And they were best of 1's which proved nothing either way. Best of 1's are really dumb.

Like DRG did a real bad all in vs Stephano and lost.

Stephano did a crappy all in vs MC and lost.

That doesn't prove Stephano is better than DRG or worse than MC because they're just really silly best of 1's.

MVP beat Stephano on an extremely Terran favoured map and Hero did something really stupid and completely threw his game vs Stephano away.

There's nothing to be learnt from the Blizzard Cup.

Mvp, Nestea, Leenock, MC, Oz, Jjakji!
HuKPOWA
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1604 Posts
March 04 2012 21:23 GMT
#245
On March 05 2012 06:21 m0ck wrote:
I still think it is worth mentioning that no zerg (beside DRG) is doing well in Korea. Zergs are struggling against top Korean P and especially T right now. It would be surprising if somehow Stephano was able to change that.


Except Zerg in the finals of almost every tournament MLG/Assembly/GSL....

People i swear....
Funkydonky
Profile Joined April 2011
950 Posts
March 04 2012 21:24 GMT
#246
On March 05 2012 06:23 HuKPOWA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2012 06:21 m0ck wrote:
I still think it is worth mentioning that no zerg (beside DRG) is doing well in Korea. Zergs are struggling against top Korean P and especially T right now. It would be surprising if somehow Stephano was able to change that.


Except Zerg in the finals of almost every tournament MLG/Assembly/GSL....

People i swear....

DRG in gsl/mlg
are you just ignoring facts, 3 zergs in RO16 gsl, 1 zerg in RO8 gsl...
Favorite players: Stephano, Mana, Polt, Lucifron, Nerchio
m0ck
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
4194 Posts
March 04 2012 21:25 GMT
#247
On March 05 2012 06:23 HuKPOWA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2012 06:21 m0ck wrote:
I still think it is worth mentioning that no zerg (beside DRG) is doing well in Korea. Zergs are struggling against top Korean P and especially T right now. It would be surprising if somehow Stephano was able to change that.


Except Zerg in the finals of almost every tournament MLG/Assembly/GSL....

People i swear....

Read what I'm writing, then take another swing at it.
Azarkon
Profile Joined January 2010
United States21060 Posts
March 04 2012 21:25 GMT
#248
On March 05 2012 06:22 nam nam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2012 06:20 hrvoje07 wrote:
On March 05 2012 06:19 andis35 wrote:
On March 05 2012 06:17 Al Bundy wrote:
Stephano is the best foreigner, nothing more. There is no need to get angry over this discussion.

Naniwa, Huk, Sase, Thorzain ?

Huge winning record against huk and sase, and naniwa/thorzain are just not winning enough stuff like him

Thorzain I agree with but it's not really fair to compare how much he's winning with players living in Korea. It will always favor a top eu or na player not living in Korea.


Yeah, but that's the downside of going to Korea, which at this point is looking like a bad investment for a lot of the players involved.
Asymmetric
Profile Joined June 2011
Scotland1309 Posts
March 04 2012 21:27 GMT
#249
On March 05 2012 06:08 Seraphone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2012 05:55 Zealot Orgy wrote:
On March 05 2012 05:53 Seraphone wrote:
On March 05 2012 05:50 Crying wrote:
Stephano could easily be Code S , if he was training in Korea,that guy is a monster guys.


Just stop. Stephano's record vs top end Koreans is quite poor since ESWC.



2 messages in a row hating on Stephano, I know I shouldn't even answer, but whatever:

He said he can be in codeS, he didn't say he can beat every "top end Korean" he faces.


Polt who slammed Stephano pretty hard at Assembly is in Code B.


Thats a bit of an exaggeration. A lot of those games were damn close.
Zealot Orgy
Profile Joined February 2012
United Kingdom537 Posts
March 04 2012 21:28 GMT
#250
On March 05 2012 06:08 Seraphone wrote:
You are Code S/A level when you earn it and keep it like Huk did for a time. You're not Code A or S level by winning online/offline tournaments vs foreigners who are also not Code A. Whether Stephano could hang in Code A or S or not, he needs to prove it by winning three Code A games in a row and then maintaining his spot over a Code S season.


And that is why people need to theorize about whether he could or could not be in codeS, because he's not willing to participate in the GSL at all.

Comparing A with B is a natural thing to everyone that seeks competition, you see A guy doing well, and you compare it to the other B guy, even if they never played each other and they are in different leagues.

If you'd have to judge only based on the games they play, one could not possibly argument that players like Nada, Keen, Curious, Yugioh, Inca, Fin, Bomber and Happy are better players than Stephano, even if, yes, they got to codeS by themselves because they played in codeA, none's saying they deserve it less than Stephano. It's just a natural thing to compare players.
TaKemE
Profile Joined April 2010
Denmark1045 Posts
March 04 2012 21:30 GMT
#251
why are they not talking about boxers huge bank :p
Eufouria
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United Kingdom4425 Posts
March 04 2012 21:31 GMT
#252
On March 05 2012 06:27 Asymmetric wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2012 06:08 Seraphone wrote:
On March 05 2012 05:55 Zealot Orgy wrote:
On March 05 2012 05:53 Seraphone wrote:
On March 05 2012 05:50 Crying wrote:
Stephano could easily be Code S , if he was training in Korea,that guy is a monster guys.


Just stop. Stephano's record vs top end Koreans is quite poor since ESWC.



2 messages in a row hating on Stephano, I know I shouldn't even answer, but whatever:

He said he can be in codeS, he didn't say he can beat every "top end Korean" he faces.


Polt who slammed Stephano pretty hard at Assembly is in Code B.


Thats a bit of an exaggeration. A lot of those games were damn close.

And Polt is high code A, if not code S standard really, he got knocked out of code A in a close series against Creator, who is a strong PvT player.
Zealot Orgy
Profile Joined February 2012
United Kingdom537 Posts
March 04 2012 21:31 GMT
#253
On March 05 2012 06:22 andis35 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2012 06:20 hrvoje07 wrote:
On March 05 2012 06:19 andis35 wrote:
On March 05 2012 06:17 Al Bundy wrote:
Stephano is the best foreigner, nothing more. There is no need to get angry over this discussion.

Naniwa, Huk, Sase, Thorzain ?

Huge winning record against huk and sase, and naniwa/thorzain are just not winning enough stuff like him


Beating Nestea and Leenock right each after another is not enough?


You win 2 bo3 and it's enough to crown you the best foreigner in the game?

lol
andis35
Profile Joined May 2011
Latvia346 Posts
March 04 2012 21:32 GMT
#254
LOl this game
Seraphone
Profile Joined January 2012
United Kingdom1219 Posts
March 04 2012 21:33 GMT
#255
On March 05 2012 06:19 Ylrahc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2012 06:08 Seraphone wrote:
On March 05 2012 05:55 Zealot Orgy wrote:
On March 05 2012 05:53 Seraphone wrote:
On March 05 2012 05:50 Crying wrote:
Stephano could easily be Code S , if he was training in Korea,that guy is a monster guys.


Just stop. Stephano's record vs top end Koreans is quite poor since ESWC.



2 messages in a row hating on Stephano, I know I shouldn't even answer, but whatever:

He said he can be in codeS, he didn't say he can beat every "top end Korean" he faces.

he wins under 50% of his games vs Koreans

Proof ?
Show nested quote +

Stephano's record vs Korean players on LAN who actually competed in Season 1 of GSL 2012.
0-2 vs MKP
0-2 vs MC
1-4 vs Polt.

You take only LAN event, online events with $$ prizes aren't meaningful ? You disregard online events as well as events in winter 2011, I disregard HSC, it's my right as well as it's yours. See my point ?

Thing is, it's your opinion vs mine, we both have "facts" to back it up, and while it's interesting to discuss it it's however tiring in the end because the same arguments are rehearsed every time. And we will never know, as Stephano will never play in GSL

And it looks like Stephano is (again) going to take another EU tournament


Online results are meaningless. You have no idea how much anyone is lagging or what hour of the night they're played in. It's just worthless for both sides.

Stephano's record vs Koreans in full.

1-4 vs Polt
3-0 vs Puma
0-2 vs MKP
0-2 vs MC
0-2 vs Sound
0-1 vs MVP
0-1 vs MC
1-0 vs DRG
1-0 vs Hero
3-2 vs Tails
2-0 vs MKP
1-2 vs Boxer
0-2 vs TheSTC
4-0 vs Lucky
3-1 vs TheSTC
2-1 vs Inori
2-0 vs Violet
2-0 Boxer
0-2 vs Alive
0-2 vs MC

In terms of series that's 10-10, in terms of games that's 25-24.

Which means overall he has a 50% win rate. It's worth point out that half of his series and game wins were at IPL. If we only use games since IPL his record is 5-8.

If we only use games in 2012 his record is 1-4 in series and 4-10.

That's a 28% win rate vs Korean players (not all of whom were Code S/A) in 2012.


Mvp, Nestea, Leenock, MC, Oz, Jjakji!
revel8
Profile Joined January 2012
United Kingdom3022 Posts
March 04 2012 21:34 GMT
#256
Unusual base-race!
Zealot Orgy
Profile Joined February 2012
United Kingdom537 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-04 21:36:16
March 04 2012 21:35 GMT
#257
On March 05 2012 06:08 Seraphone wrote:
You can say that MKP and MC are the cream of the crop but neither made the Round of 4 in Code S. MKP didn't get out of the second group. Polt who slammed Stephano pretty hard at Assembly is in Code B. Code S (in fact GSL in general) is incredibly fucking difficult now and if you win 50% of your games (which Stephano doesn't, he wins under 50% of his games vs Koreans) you will at best be in Code A and even be in Code B.


Stop being such an hater.

You're fucking mentioning MC, MKP and Polt.


Do you realize the level of these players?


I'll repeat, once again, since you're arbitrarily avoiding this point;

sC, Keen, Fin, Brown, Happy, Curious, Nada, Bomber, Zenio, Yugioh, Lucky, Inca, Boxer, JYP.

30% of the 2012 season 1 codeS roster.

Come here and tell me Stephano's weaker than these.

FaRess
Profile Joined September 2010
Tunisia937 Posts
March 04 2012 21:36 GMT
#258
man the haters flooding another thread, but I really don"t blame you guys, you hate stephano and your favorites foreigners sucks balls, so you have a lot of time to waste
YoloStar <3
Bromazepam
Profile Joined August 2011
820 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-04 21:37:40
March 04 2012 21:37 GMT
#259
Hey guys. The title of the thread is "Scan Invitational #4 Live Thread".

Stop the goddamn inconclusive Stephano wars.
Saying that something is killing esports is killing esports.
Zealot Orgy
Profile Joined February 2012
United Kingdom537 Posts
March 04 2012 21:38 GMT
#260
On March 05 2012 06:33 Seraphone wrote:
In terms of series that's 10-10, in terms of games that's 25-24.


10-9

25-22


aLive's 2-0 is a forfeit.
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