EPTJust stop. Stephano's record vs top end Koreans is quite poor since ESWC.
So is every zergs beside DRG ^^
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m0ck
4194 Posts
So is every zergs beside DRG ^^ | ||
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Ylrahc
France496 Posts
On March 05 2012 05:53 Seraphone wrote: Just stop. Stephano's record vs top end Koreans is quite poor since ESWC. Is not. Unless you consider players like Lucky,Violet, Zenio, Hyung, Inori, Polt, Puma not top end Koreans, that is. He did very poorly at the HSC (being tired & half drunk doesn't help, although I'm not sure he would have done better if not, MC & MKP were in top shape), lost to Polt more than he won, but that doesn't make his record terrible. And now ZvZ, Slivko has a chance, Stephano tends to rely on his micro a lot, and sometimes it fails. On March 05 2012 05:53 Zealot Orgy wrote: If you think he's at the same level of Inca, Brown, Seed, Avenge, Squirtle and the likes, the one with problems is certainly not me. Well, he is not same level, he is better, obviously  | ||
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The_Darkness
United States910 Posts
On March 05 2012 05:53 Seraphone wrote: Just stop. Stephano's record vs top end Koreans is quite poor since ESWC. He just beat Zenio 2-0 yesterday. But he struggled v. Polt (although he did take a series off him in a small tournament) and at HSC4 he played poorly, although apparently he was hungover. | ||
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TheRealFluid
United States501 Posts
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Tarotis
Germany1931 Posts
On March 05 2012 05:58 Ylrahc wrote: Is not. Unless you consider players like Lucky,Violet, Zenio, Hyung, Inori, Polt, Puma not top end Koreans, that is. He did very poorly at the HSC (being tired & half drunk doesn't help, although I'm not sure he would have done better if not, MC & MKP were in top shape), lost to Polt more than he won, but that doesn't make his record terrible. And now ZvZ, Slivko has a chance, Stephano tends to rely on his micro a lot, and sometimes it fails. Neither Hyung, nor Inori nor Puma are top koreans. Violet, Lucky end Zenio aren't top end koreans aswell (though they are s-level). Polt is the only one and most of the time I see them playing Stephano loses (even if played on EU server...)... | ||
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revel8
United Kingdom3022 Posts
On March 05 2012 05:58 Ylrahc wrote: Is not. Unless you consider players like Lucky,Violet, Zenio, Hyung, Inori, Polt, Puma not top end Koreans, that is. He did very poorly at the HSC (being tired & half drunk doesn't help, although I'm not sure he would have done better if not, MC & MKP were in top shape), lost to Polt more than he won, but that doesn't make his record terrible. And now ZvZ, Slivko has a chance, Stephano tends to rely on his micro a lot, and sometimes it fails. Plus he beat Hero and DRG at Blizzard Cup. So Stephano has demonstrated he can take games from a lot of top Koreans. Haters gonna hate though! | ||
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Ylrahc
France496 Posts
On March 05 2012 06:00 Tarotis wrote: Neither Hyung, nor Inori nor Puma are top koreans. Violet, Lucky end Zenio aren't top end koreans aswell (though they are s-level). Polt is the only one and most of the time I see them playing Stephano loses (even if played on EU server...)... Well, Stephano beated Polt 3 2 in the finals of an online cup a few weeks ago (on EU server), but lost 2 semi-finals of the MSI pro cup against him and lost assembly as well. He has a problem with Polt style. And I'm just saying his record is not terrible , I'm not saying he is crushing koreans left and right; he is obviously not and he is far from being able to win Code S, although I'm fairly sure he could hold his own on Code A qualifiers / first Code S rounds. And I'll break it to you, being code S is top level, unless you limit top level to the very best 5 - 6 players in the world, which Stephano isn't in, that I won't argue with you about  | ||
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Zealot Orgy
United Kingdom537 Posts
On March 05 2012 06:00 Tarotis wrote: Neither Hyung, nor Inori nor Puma are top koreans. Violet, Lucky end Zenio aren't top end koreans aswell (though they are s-level). Polt is the only one and most of the time I see them playing Stephano loses (even if played on EU server...)... People can think that that he can't beat top level koreans, it's a respectable opinion. The 'point' is that this Seraphone hater user is argumenting the fact that Stephano's not codeS level beacuse he doesn't beat "toplevel koreans" often. As if current 2012 season1 codeS players like Lucky, Yugioh, Curious, Inca, Keen, Nada can do any better? | ||
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Massing
Germany354 Posts
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Seraphone
United Kingdom1219 Posts
On March 05 2012 05:55 Zealot Orgy wrote: 2 messages in a row hating on Stephano, I know I shouldn't even answer, but whatever: He said he can be in codeS, he didn't say he can beat every "top end Korean" he faces. First of all let me just say, that Stephano is easily the best non Korean player right now. He's the most consistant, the most solid across all matchups and in general just clearly the best foreign player. However, against Koreans he hasn't done that well since ESWC. And when he has beaten Koreans since then it's been against Code B Koreans like Puma. Another thing is that people on TL/Reddit always say foreigners are Code S/A level but when they go to Korea they lose, always. Just look at Idra, Huk, Morrow, Thorzain, Sase, Naniwa, Sjow, Select, Tod. All of them have been to Korea with all sorts of people thinking they are good enough for Code S and/or Code A and in most cases they have been raped. At best they do what Sjow did where he beats a poor player in Sjow's best matchup and his opponents worst and then get dropped soon after. Not one single foreigner has ever won through Code B. You are Code S/A level when you earn it and keep it like Huk did for a time. You're not Code A or S level by winning online/offline tournaments vs foreigners who are also not Code A. Whether Stephano could hang in Code A or S or not, he needs to prove it by winning three Code A games in a row and then maintaining his spot over a Code S season. You can say that MKP and MC are the cream of the crop but neither made the Round of 4 in Code S. MKP didn't get out of the second group. Polt who slammed Stephano pretty hard at Assembly is in Code B. Code S (in fact GSL in general) is incredibly fucking difficult now and if you win 50% of your games (which Stephano doesn't, he wins under 50% of his games vs Koreans) you will at best be in Code A and even be in Code B. Stephano's record vs Korean players on LAN who actually competed in Season 1 of GSL 2012. 0-2 vs MKP 0-2 vs MC 1-4 vs Polt. You can bring up excuses for every game I'm sure (and people will) but that is not the record of a guy who is 'easily' Code S material. Stephano is a really good player, the best outside of Korea but he doesn't show the consistantcey outside of Korea against Koreans to suggest he would make Code S the legitimate way, much less maintain his spots over the course of multiple seasons. That's even ignoring the clear advantage foreigners have in foreign tournaments, when all foreigners play worse in Korea and vice versa. | ||
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TheRealFluid
United States501 Posts
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TheRealFluid
United States501 Posts
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Uni1987
Netherlands642 Posts
On March 05 2012 06:08 Massing wrote: stream is unwatchable due to lag This  | ||
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Al Bundy
7257 Posts
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kukarachaa
United States284 Posts
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andis35
Latvia346 Posts
On March 05 2012 06:17 Al Bundy wrote: Stephano is the best foreigner, nothing more. There is no need to get angry over this discussion. Naniwa, Huk, Sase, Thorzain ? | ||
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Ylrahc
France496 Posts
Proof ? Stephano's record vs Korean players on LAN who actually competed in Season 1 of GSL 2012. 0-2 vs MKP 0-2 vs MC 1-4 vs Polt. You take only LAN event, online events with $$ prizes aren't meaningful ? You disregard online events as well as events in winter 2011, I disregard HSC, it's my right as well as it's yours. See my point ? Thing is, it's your opinion vs mine, we both have "facts" to back it up, and while it's interesting to discuss it it's however tiring in the end because the same arguments are rehearsed every time. And we will never know, as Stephano will never play in GSL And it looks like Stephano is (again) going to take another EU tournament | ||
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HuKPOWA
United States1604 Posts
Stephano is AMAZING at playing foreigners b/c he has ALL their numbers...no doubt about that....non korean trained players have a hard time against stephano, while Koreans say he is one of the best foreigners.... Stephano has a hard time against korean pressure due to not practicing in korea...would love to see him move to korea and compete..i didnt say "Stephano gonna own this shit Code S champ next season!" would like to see stephano tone down his arrogance and go to a LAN with koreans in it NOWADAYS where the top of the top tier are there....but.... the threads with idra/stephano will always be the same :\ | ||
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revel8
United Kingdom3022 Posts
On March 05 2012 06:08 Seraphone wrote: First of all let me just say, that Stephano is easily the best non Korean player right now. He's the most consistant, the most solid across all matchups and in general just clearly the best foreign player. However, against Koreans he hasn't done that well since ESWC. And when he has beaten Koreans since then it's been against Code B Koreans like Puma. Another thing is that people on TL/Reddit always say foreigners are Code S/A level but when they go to Korea they lose, always. Just look at Idra, Huk, Morrow, Thorzain, Sase, Naniwa, Sjow, Select, Tod. All of them have been to Korea with all sorts of people thinking they are good enough for Code S and/or Code A and in most cases they have been raped. At best they do what Sjow did where he beats a poor player in Sjow's best matchup and his opponents worst and then get dropped soon after. Not one single foreigner has ever won through Code B. You are Code S/A level when you earn it and keep it like Huk did for a time. You're not Code A or S level by winning online/offline tournaments vs foreigners who are also not Code A. Whether Stephano could hang in Code A or S or not, he needs to prove it by winning three Code A games in a row and then maintaining his spot over a Code S season. You can say that MKP and MC are the cream of the crop but neither made the Round of 4 in Code S. MKP didn't get out of the second group. Polt who slammed Stephano pretty hard at Assembly is in Code B. Code S (in fact GSL in general) is incredibly fucking difficult now and if you win 50% of your games (which Stephano doesn't, he wins under 50% of his games vs Koreans) you will at best be in Code A and even be in Code B. Stephano's record vs Korean players on LAN who actually competed in Season 1 of GSL 2012. 0-2 vs MKP 0-2 vs MC 1-4 vs Polt. You can bring up excuses for every game I'm sure (and people will) but that is not the record of a guy who is 'easily' Code S material. Stephano is a really good player, the best outside of Korea but he doesn't show the consistantcey outside of Korea against Koreans to suggest he would make Code S the legitimate way, much less maintain his spots over the course of multiple seasons. That's even ignoring the clear advantage foreigners have in foreign tournaments, when all foreigners play worse in Korea and vice versa. Are you ignoring Blizzard Cup results? | ||
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Funkydonky
950 Posts
Huge winning record against huk and sase, and naniwa/thorzain are just not winning enough stuff like him | ||
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