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[IEM] Sao Paulo - Day 4 - Page 58

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Slardar
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada7596 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-11 19:37:55
February 11 2012 19:37 GMT
#1141
Ret for 3rd place ! Go Ret RET RET RET

This has to be the most flawless DT defense I've ever seen. Not losing a SINGLE BLOODY DRONE?! Geez...
Eee
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden2712 Posts
February 11 2012 19:37 GMT
#1142
On February 12 2012 04:36 MWY wrote:
pvz matchup is so dumb.. unbelievable

care to elaborate? :S
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27298 Posts
February 11 2012 19:38 GMT
#1143
On February 12 2012 04:25 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2012 04:20 Talin wrote:
On February 12 2012 04:12 iamthedave wrote:
On February 12 2012 04:06 Talin wrote:
On February 12 2012 04:03 Wombat_NI wrote:
Any chance of stopping with the foreigner bashing? I mean I'd accept it if every top, top foreigner was here, and the Koreans weren't dropping sets, but the games have been pretty close by and large.


Yeah, this is the worst part of these LR threads. Koreans can edge it out in games by the skin of their teeth and there's always going to be people who will drop posts like "outclassed" and "skill gap" etc. -_-

Every single series since yesterday could easily have gone either way.


The point is actually that Supernova is playing terribly off his game. That's not trying to make the foreigners seem worse than they are, but Supernova's just been making mistakes left and right that are - by his normal standards - elementary and which he shouldn't make.

Honestly when I saw his matches with Sliv, I was certain he was going to lose in the semis.

It looks bad when a Code S Terran playing close to his worst somehow makes it to the finals.


What makes you think Supernova's opponents played their A game either? They also made elementary mistakes which they shouldn't (and normally don't) make and basically gave him wins (literally, multiple times). Everybody goes into games with the intent to play the best games they're capable of at the moment, and that's exactly what they do.

The thing is people have built this entire imaginary flowchart of rationalizing of why the results happen and projecting what should have happened.

I agree people go over the top with it after close games... but lets look at the results overall so fa in sc2.

MLG only 1 foreigner has won since Koreans starting coming over(A foreigner who has been training in Korea forever nontheless..)
IEM- dominated by Koreans
GSL - No foreigners in Code S, Most have dropped out of Code A all together...
Dreamhack - Don't remember most results, I think this has been the closest one to 50/50 Korean/Foreigner winning.
NASL - both times Korean vs Korean Finals.

Yes they are circumstances you can't count for which may lead to Koreans wins. But overall Koreans have been very dominant.


Anyway back on topic... Go go Go RET!

Koreans are better, but they aren't on some other plane of existence like some people got on.

MLGs, Nani making a finals etc show it's still possible. MLG is actually my favourite tournament to gauge the extent of the foreign/Korean divide. Lots of games within a shorter period, less chance to pre-plan weird builds and the like, which is why I think foreigners do terribly in GSL generally. I mean especially in Code A the foreigner will tend to have had a lot more exposure than his opponent

Last two IEMs haven't been massively Korea dominated, they've been pretty close at times. Dimaga in the final at Kiev, Kas taking out Zenio and Hero didn't even make it out of pools. Idra won Ghangzhou as well right? In this one we've seen close games, and Supernova making the (expected) final.


'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Leetley
Profile Joined October 2010
1796 Posts
February 11 2012 19:38 GMT
#1144
That was just silly.
Enki
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
United States2548 Posts
February 11 2012 19:38 GMT
#1145
Well, that was one-sided...
"Practice, practice, practice. And when you're not practicing you should be practicing. It's the only way to get better. The only way." I run the Smix Fanclub!
iSometric
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
2221 Posts
February 11 2012 19:38 GMT
#1146
What are the violet vs ret results?
strava.com/athletes/zhaodynasty
HaXXspetten
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Sweden15718 Posts
February 11 2012 19:38 GMT
#1147
that game was just... meh
SC2ShoWTimE
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany722 Posts
February 11 2012 19:39 GMT
#1148
dunno... but i really dislike real's play in every single matchup. it's either gimmicky or greedy or both :o
Progamer
HaXXspetten
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Sweden15718 Posts
February 11 2012 19:39 GMT
#1149
On February 12 2012 04:38 iSometric wrote:
What are the violet vs ret results?

3-1 violet
CrazyAsian
Profile Joined October 2010
United States188 Posts
February 11 2012 19:39 GMT
#1150
Ret up 1 - 0
Seeker *
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
Where dat snitch at?37103 Posts
February 11 2012 19:39 GMT
#1151
On February 12 2012 04:38 iSometric wrote:
What are the violet vs ret results?

Liquipedia has them all
ModeratorPeople ask me, "Seeker, what are you seeking?" My answer? "Sleep, damn it! Always sleep!"
TL+ Member
Mithridates
Profile Joined June 2011
United States446 Posts
February 11 2012 19:39 GMT
#1152
DTs builds are so bad. If you want to make Dts play BW
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27298 Posts
February 11 2012 19:39 GMT
#1153
On February 12 2012 04:39 ShoWTimE94 wrote:
dunno... but i really dislike real's play in every single matchup. it's either gimmicky or greedy or both :o

Likewise, he seems to play it well hence he's pretty consistently beating people, but eugh his style pains me.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Necro)Phagist(
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada6660 Posts
February 11 2012 19:39 GMT
#1154
On February 12 2012 04:35 Talin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2012 04:33 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
On February 12 2012 04:31 Talin wrote:
On February 12 2012 04:25 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
Yes they are circumstances you can't count for which may lead to Koreans wins. But overall Koreans have been very dominant.


That's all just statistics, some of which are from ages ago as well.

Until the games are completely one-sided and hopeless from start to finish like they were in BW, using the terms like "domination" and "outclassed" is offensive to players that have been one tiny decision or an ounce of luck away from taking the series (even the actual wins are discarded by following the rationale of 'well the other guy didn't play his best' or 'its not gsl so it doesn't mean anything').

I'm not saying to not respect the results nor that the better player didn't win, but if all the games and series are competitive, then a win is just a win - it's not "domination".

Outclassed is harsh to say yes. but dominant I think is very true. If you are always winning even if every time its by a small margin you are dominant imo.


Well it's almost always between different players, so you can't really claim consistent results except for a very few individual players who are/were dominant in Korea as well (MC and MMA).

always different players kind of proves my point that Koreans are dominant over foreigners when any of their players can come over and win constantly. if it was just MC or MMA coming over and winning then you could say. ok its just those two players they win against everyone... but its not. its even code B/A Koreans coming over and winning.
"Are you talking to me? Because your authority is not recognized in fort kick ass!"" ||Park Jung Suk|| |MC|HerO|HyuN|
MWY
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany284 Posts
February 11 2012 19:40 GMT
#1155
On February 12 2012 04:37 Eee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2012 04:36 MWY wrote:
pvz matchup is so dumb.. unbelievable

care to elaborate? :S


for toss: 2 base allin or you lose

for zerg: hold the 2 base allin (and your 3.) or you lose

ive seen nothing else in a month...
BEARDiaguz
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Australia2362 Posts
February 11 2012 19:40 GMT
#1156
On February 12 2012 04:27 Shellshock1122 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2012 04:25 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
On February 12 2012 04:20 Talin wrote:
On February 12 2012 04:12 iamthedave wrote:
On February 12 2012 04:06 Talin wrote:
On February 12 2012 04:03 Wombat_NI wrote:
Any chance of stopping with the foreigner bashing? I mean I'd accept it if every top, top foreigner was here, and the Koreans weren't dropping sets, but the games have been pretty close by and large.


Yeah, this is the worst part of these LR threads. Koreans can edge it out in games by the skin of their teeth and there's always going to be people who will drop posts like "outclassed" and "skill gap" etc. -_-

Every single series since yesterday could easily have gone either way.


The point is actually that Supernova is playing terribly off his game. That's not trying to make the foreigners seem worse than they are, but Supernova's just been making mistakes left and right that are - by his normal standards - elementary and which he shouldn't make.

Honestly when I saw his matches with Sliv, I was certain he was going to lose in the semis.

It looks bad when a Code S Terran playing close to his worst somehow makes it to the finals.


What makes you think Supernova's opponents played their A game either? They also made elementary mistakes which they shouldn't (and normally don't) make and basically gave him wins (literally, multiple times). Everybody goes into games with the intent to play the best games they're capable of at the moment, and that's exactly what they do.

The thing is people have built this entire imaginary flowchart of rationalizing of why the results happen and projecting what should have happened.

I agree people go over the top with it after close games... but lets look at the results overall so fa in sc2.

MLG only 1 foreigner has won since Koreans starting coming over(A foreigner who has been training in Korea forever nontheless..)
IEM- dominated by Koreans
GSL - No foreigners in Code S, Most have dropped out of Code A all together...
Dreamhack - Don't remember most results, I think this has been the closest one to 50/50 Korean/Foreigner winning.
NASL - both times Korean vs Korean Finals.

Yes they are circumstances you can't count for which may lead to Koreans wins. But overall Koreans have been very dominant.


Anyway back on topic... Go go Go RET!

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/DreamHack
Koreans have won 3/5, one of the foreigner wins being Huk, the same as the only MLG foreign win. The last Dreamhack was Korean vs Korean, so it's slowly making it's way similar to the other tournies


IEM GuangZhou was won by idra. He 3-0'd PuMa on the way up.

But yes, the dominant force in SC2 is Koreans. Anyone surprised?
ProgamerAustralian alcohol user follow @iaguzSC2
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27298 Posts
February 11 2012 19:41 GMT
#1157
On February 12 2012 04:39 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2012 04:35 Talin wrote:
On February 12 2012 04:33 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
On February 12 2012 04:31 Talin wrote:
On February 12 2012 04:25 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
Yes they are circumstances you can't count for which may lead to Koreans wins. But overall Koreans have been very dominant.


That's all just statistics, some of which are from ages ago as well.

Until the games are completely one-sided and hopeless from start to finish like they were in BW, using the terms like "domination" and "outclassed" is offensive to players that have been one tiny decision or an ounce of luck away from taking the series (even the actual wins are discarded by following the rationale of 'well the other guy didn't play his best' or 'its not gsl so it doesn't mean anything').

I'm not saying to not respect the results nor that the better player didn't win, but if all the games and series are competitive, then a win is just a win - it's not "domination".

Outclassed is harsh to say yes. but dominant I think is very true. If you are always winning even if every time its by a small margin you are dominant imo.


Well it's almost always between different players, so you can't really claim consistent results except for a very few individual players who are/were dominant in Korea as well (MC and MMA).

always different players kind of proves my point that Koreans are dominant over foreigners when any of their players can come over and win constantly. if it was just MC or MMA coming over and winning then you could say. ok its just those two players they win against everyone... but its not. its even code B/A Koreans coming over and winning.

If it was the creme de la creme of the foreign scene losing out in tournaments to Code B players then I agree, but it works both ways man, IEM rarely has a stacked foreign lineup. I like it for this reason in that it lets players get exposure and break out, but I mean I'm not sure who here you'd even class as a top 10 foreigner, perhaps Ret on a good day?
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
alistarnl
Profile Joined August 2011
Netherlands144 Posts
February 11 2012 19:41 GMT
#1158
wonder what that was about... ret pointing being mad..
Grampz
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2147 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-11 19:47:45
February 11 2012 19:41 GMT
#1159
nvm why do they still even use this map? zzzz
Kevan
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden2303 Posts
February 11 2012 19:42 GMT
#1160
On February 12 2012 04:40 MWY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2012 04:37 Eee wrote:
On February 12 2012 04:36 MWY wrote:
pvz matchup is so dumb.. unbelievable

care to elaborate? :S


for toss: 2 base allin or you lose

for zerg: hold the 2 base allin (and your 3.) or you lose

ive seen nothing else in a month...

Heavy muta play into massive broodlord infestor armies vs blink,storm, archons and mothership? Seen that a lot too.
SC2, rip in pepperinos
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