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On January 27 2012 11:11 SiguR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2012 11:06 Bashion wrote:On January 27 2012 11:03 Kiarip wrote:On January 27 2012 11:01 GDbushido wrote:On January 27 2012 10:58 CosmicSpiral wrote:
I don't think Blizzard anticipated mass muta being such a viable strategy on large map PvZs. its not. as long as protoss holds on long enough to get storm and enough stalkers zerg cannot engage with pure muta. its a strategy that totally relies on protoss not knowing how/being capable of stopping it. it's still good becasue protoss can't move out without losing everything. And zerg can always transition into whichever tech they want. They will be way ahead on bases, they can turtle with spines, get infestor/broodlord, and Protoss cant do anything about it. Mutas are beatable in PvZ. Taldarim's size might make it ugly, but in no way is it unbeatable. The mutas aren't supposed to be able to do damage once you have high templar unless it is extremely inefficient damage. If it happens, the protoss made a mistake. It is a strategy that requires a VERY specific response from the protoss, but I don't think it's broken. Destiny played well.
It was more of MaNa playing bad/making bad decisions I would say. Not sure if he misread Destiny or something, but cross positions on Tal'Darim is perfect for a Muta-build Zerg. Besides that, I would have thought a strong 2-base gateway timing would have been the best move, or even a Stargate opening to punish the fast 3rd.
Building mutalisks and poking around isn't that amazing--- considering watching Destiny's control of those two flocks of mutas could have been better to inflict more damage, even though at that point it didn't matter (but overall he did well, not throwing away Mutalisks for bad trades). As soon as Destiny had Mutalisks out he had solid control of the map considering MaNa went for Colossus without Blink, that was basically game over. At that point, MaNa's only chance to win was a base trade, building as many Stalkers as possible with the 2-3 Colossus and hoping for a solid base trade win. Otherwise, it's hard to imagine him being able to have a chance, seeing as how Destiny had easy control and was obviously going to mass Expand, while MaNa could not.
And then he sacrificed a lot of units before finally managing to kill that 3rd, which IMO, was not worth it =/. 3-4 Zealots & 3 Stalkers or so when Destiny had used the Hatch to already build a large amount of Drones.
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Hero vs Dimaga from IEM on TDA is a great game to study from the protoss perspective against an opponent who goes balls to the wall mass mutalisk the entire game. I'd recommend any people here struggling for answers watch that game, it isn't unbeatable, it just requires good decision making and crisp reactions.
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On January 27 2012 11:11 SiguR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2012 11:06 Bashion wrote:On January 27 2012 11:03 Kiarip wrote:On January 27 2012 11:01 GDbushido wrote:On January 27 2012 10:58 CosmicSpiral wrote:
I don't think Blizzard anticipated mass muta being such a viable strategy on large map PvZs. its not. as long as protoss holds on long enough to get storm and enough stalkers zerg cannot engage with pure muta. its a strategy that totally relies on protoss not knowing how/being capable of stopping it. it's still good becasue protoss can't move out without losing everything. And zerg can always transition into whichever tech they want. They will be way ahead on bases, they can turtle with spines, get infestor/broodlord, and Protoss cant do anything about it. Mutas are beatable in PvZ. Taldarim's size might make it ugly, but in no way is it unbeatable. The mutas aren't supposed to be able to do damage once you have high templar unless it is extremely inefficient damage. If it happens, the protoss made a mistake. It is a strategy that requires a VERY specific response from the protoss, but I don't think it's broken. Destiny played well.
How do Templars really stop mutas? they are slow and if they get into the mineral what is the toss going to do? Storm and kill all his own probes to damage mutas? Archons are immobile and with short range make them a joke to chase mutas around with....
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On January 27 2012 11:14 SC2NeCro wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2012 11:13 Letall wrote:On January 27 2012 11:12 SC2NeCro wrote:
Thorzain is the most overrated player of all time.
Hyped to extremes and just a mediocre mid-tier foreigner. Funny that you say that when he's going up vs destiny So? Having a large fanbase =/= overrated. Nobody proclaims Destiny is a top tier player, and I see it all the time for Thorzain.
Destiny gets really overhyped any time he wins ANY game vs pretty much any player. He is very overrated although perhaps exclusively by his fans. The reason Thorzain is said to be so good is cause he's very consistant and there are like 2 good terrans in the foreigner scene all together.
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On January 27 2012 11:15 Active.815 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2012 11:12 SC2NeCro wrote:
Thorzain is the most overrated player of all time.
Hyped to extremes and just a mediocre mid-tier foreigner. Rofl, because beating Nani, MC, Kas, and FD means he's totally mid-tier.
You know who beat NesTea? Haypro.
Yep he's definitely not mid tier either!
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On January 27 2012 11:18 SC2NeCro wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2012 11:15 Active.815 wrote:On January 27 2012 11:12 SC2NeCro wrote:
Thorzain is the most overrated player of all time.
Hyped to extremes and just a mediocre mid-tier foreigner. Rofl, because beating Nani, MC, Kas, and FD means he's totally mid-tier. You know who beat NesTea? Haypro. Yep he's definitely not mid tier either!
if you're talking about in the TSL, goody beat nestea...
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On January 27 2012 11:14 Loophole wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2012 11:10 Baffels wrote:
Not sure why people are saying Destiny played well. Mass mutas, miss MaNa expanding past 3 bases and drag out a game that should of been over, I mean really how do you lose that many bases with 60 mutas on the field?
Still hoping for better games, thorzain coming out should be interesting. I thought Destiny's harass and muta control was very good. He had multiple groups of mutas pulling mana all over the place, forcing him to constantly defend. It was textbook. The point of what he was doing was to drag it out. It's called starving out your opponent and he did it properly. You might not like the strategy, it might not be exciting to you, but Destiny def played well.
Destiny never attacked with both groups at once, Mana had like 5 different groups of stalkers ready at all the places and blinked instantly, stormed, trapped him several times, etc.. Destiny one time flew over 30 stalkers, losing 2 mutas in his pack. Then the commentator said how fragile mutas are.
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On January 27 2012 11:19 TearsOfTheSun wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2012 11:18 SC2NeCro wrote:On January 27 2012 11:15 Active.815 wrote:On January 27 2012 11:12 SC2NeCro wrote:
Thorzain is the most overrated player of all time.
Hyped to extremes and just a mediocre mid-tier foreigner. Rofl, because beating Nani, MC, Kas, and FD means he's totally mid-tier. You know who beat NesTea? Haypro. Yep he's definitely not mid tier either! if you're talking about in the TSL, goody beat nestea...
huh? haypro knocked nestea out of mlg providence...
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United States97277 Posts
On January 27 2012 11:19 TearsOfTheSun wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2012 11:18 SC2NeCro wrote:On January 27 2012 11:15 Active.815 wrote:On January 27 2012 11:12 SC2NeCro wrote:
Thorzain is the most overrated player of all time.
Hyped to extremes and just a mediocre mid-tier foreigner. Rofl, because beating Nani, MC, Kas, and FD means he's totally mid-tier. You know who beat NesTea? Haypro. Yep he's definitely not mid tier either! if you're talking about in the TSL, goody beat nestea...
hes talking about mlg providence
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Thorzain always running the hellions the wrong away around the hatch. Drones escaping.
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Anyone else having problems with the stream lagging?
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if you're talking about in the TSL, goody beat nestea...
Haypro beat Nestea in MLG Providence
Edit: Epic flank by destiny
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^^ destiny is actually looking pretty strong
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Sweden33723 Posts
On January 27 2012 11:12 SC2NeCro wrote:
Thorzain is the most overrated player of all time.
Hyped to extremes and just a mediocre mid-tier foreigner.
User was warned for this post
Top 4 NASL
Top 2 DH Valencia
Pretty impressive MLG performance when he actually went....
Even if we ignore TSL it's hard to call him mediocre.
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What a terrible engagement
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Well, he's no Stephano 
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United States15275 Posts
And now Destiny is looking pretty dead.
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On January 27 2012 11:18 SC2NeCro wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2012 11:15 Active.815 wrote:On January 27 2012 11:12 SC2NeCro wrote:
Thorzain is the most overrated player of all time.
Hyped to extremes and just a mediocre mid-tier foreigner. Rofl, because beating Nani, MC, Kas, and FD means he's totally mid-tier. You know who beat NesTea? Haypro. Yep he's definitely not mid tier either!
Then what exactly is your definition of mid-tier? Everybody who hasn't won a gsl/mlg?
You know who Haypro also almost beat? MVP!
I mean really. Calling thorzain overhyped when he 5-0'd QIM in addition to his individual league/game achievements...
Haypro i can semi-understand, because he hasn't produced high-level results. But Thorzain has shown that he is very strong, so...
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what is destiny doing -__-
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On January 27 2012 11:21 Loophole wrote:
Anyone else having problems with the stream lagging?
Yeah sometimes it freezes like 2-3 seconds.
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EPT
