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Watch how you approach the topic of match fixing. You can speculate, saying "I'm not so sure about the finals, something doesn't sit right with me," but if you are going to outright accuse players of match fixing you need something more than your word.
TL takes match fixing/abuse seriously and as such there is a burden a proof when you are accusing players.
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On October 23 2011 12:28 PikaXchU wrote:
I don't know about anyone else, but is the posting standards on this forum just dropping? Just because Nestea fucks up, everyone resorts to complaining about the match being fixed.
YOU ARE WATCHING THE GAME FROM AN OBSERVER POINT OF VIEW. YOU CAN SEE EVERYTHING. CAN THEY SEE EVERYTHING?!
Yeah, someone who was there watching NesTea's ingame view said that he absolutely didn't throw the game. The 20+ broodlords were apparently made out of sheer desperation, and he didn't really know MVP's army composition. Such is life.
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On October 23 2011 12:30 Shaxe wrote:
Yeah, this concert alone is worth the virtual ticket imo.
Yeah man, I'm head bangin over here!
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On October 23 2011 12:28 PikaXchU wrote:
I don't know about anyone else, but is the posting standards on this forum just dropping? Just because Nestea fucks up, everyone resorts to complaining about the match being fixed.
YOU ARE WATCHING THE GAME FROM AN OBSERVER POINT OF VIEW. YOU CAN SEE EVERYTHING. CAN THEY SEE EVERYTHING?!
It wasn't a fuck up, it was like ten super once in a life time fuck ups. Hell I don't even think nestea was scouting. He honestly just sat at max and chilled out for a bit with 13k minerals stock piled.
On October 23 2011 12:27 JackRipper wrote:
Does anyone know if and when they'll release replays for this event? If I remember correctly from last year, replays from the blizzcon tournament were made available immediately after the event.
http://us.battle.net/blizzcon/en/live-stream/
Go to the RTS stream and rewind it to around 5:00 pm.
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On October 23 2011 12:16 BarbieHsu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 11:47 dtz wrote:
Split potting is really not match fixing though....
When you split pot, you agree to split the winnings and you still play out without predetermining the winner. It's just that the prize money is split ( can be 50-50, can be 60-40 to the winners etc). They are still playing for the title and glory and maybe a little bit of money.
Match fixing means you predetermine who the winner/loser will be.
According to many pros( fayth, TT1-fenix incident) , split potting is really common so it can't be ruled out. But, to say that they were match-fixing is a serious baseless accusation of which I don't see the benefit for either players.
But it did seem that Nestea made really grave mistakes that I wouldn't expect someone of his calibre ( or any Korean GSL zergs) to make. That's unfortunate. + Show Spoiler +Do people think that Nestea let MVP win and then are splitting the money?
I wouldn't rule it out, because maintaining friendly relations and team spirit is so important in Korea, it's a different culture, and sometime integrity of the game comes second.
That said, I that some other evidence than match results, like a witness to a prearranged agreement is needed [I think there was even that incident were the guy logged the cheater's keystrokes and the tournament organizers could not accept it as adequate evidence even though cheating was sooooo obvious. my memory is probably not completely accurate]. Thus the cheating discussion is moot.
That said, if I was ANY tournament organizer, I would think twice before inviting both of them to the same event again, simply because of the accusations now.
EDIT: That is how accusations, whether grounded in fact or baseless, can hurt people.
See i believe they at the very least played goofy, and at the very worst NesTea let MVP win. But that's hardly something to make a big deal over and its only an issue (if it even is an issue) because they happened to meet in the final like that.
I'll spoiler cut the rest to make sure people don't read it.
+ Show Spoiler +Sure it hurts the final, but it would be the same if any two players from the same team met in the final unless i knew they wanted to destroy eachother. SC2 feels so manner that this is rarely the case. Pretty sure Idra Huk would still want to kill eachother in a final. Well Idra v Anyone for that matter.
I think of UFC, and guys who are friends will just outright refuse to fight eachother. It's a hard match to get up for, and it's not a bad thing to think that one guy might go easy on the other guy if his natural human emotions take over.
I can't just pretend i didn't see what i believe i saw. But where people think this becomes an ACCUSATION OF MATCH FIXING is where i get a little bit lost, and i feel people are super overreacting to this situation, and these 'accusations'.
In my eyes the only people this hurts are people making a big deal out of it. Sky is falling, hyperbolic, sensationalist, tabloid crap. Everything that is wrong with the media world today.
People just gotta chill. Two team mates, possibly hetero life partners, ended up in a final together and the games weren't fantastic. There's a reality of that situation you just have to acknowledge and reluctantly accept, or deny and move on with your life. It is what it is. What it definitely is not is actual bad, ESPORTS damaging, Savior level match fixing. Not even close. It wouldn't even be in the same book. Or the same shelf. Or the same floor in the same library. Well maybe same library. But it's just one series which didn't really matter a whole lot.
TL;DR: Shhh, it's fine.
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You guys are idiots if you think Nestea let MVP win. No one plays for 2nd place. There would be no point letting mvp win. NESTEA CAN'T BEAT MVP PERIOD. Nestea can't even beat bomber or MMA.
people think Nestea is still that good, he's not. Nestea lost to MVP that last couple GSL's.
People are just mad that MVP beat Nestea.
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They need to play Everlong, it's my alltime favorite FF song
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On October 23 2011 11:54 j4vz wrote:
maybe they decided that MVP could take out Naniwa or Sen with ease... i dont know im not saying its staged but i cant see how nestea lost this...
he lost because mvp is the better player
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On October 23 2011 12:46 Bowzer wrote:
They need to play Everlong, it's my alltime favorite FF song
Indeed, by far their best song
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In the Flesh out of fucking NOWHERE! So awesome
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On October 23 2011 12:32 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 12:28 PikaXchU wrote:
I don't know about anyone else, but is the posting standards on this forum just dropping? Just because Nestea fucks up, everyone resorts to complaining about the match being fixed.
YOU ARE WATCHING THE GAME FROM AN OBSERVER POINT OF VIEW. YOU CAN SEE EVERYTHING. CAN THEY SEE EVERYTHING?! Yeah, someone who was there watching NesTea's ingame view said that he absolutely didn't throw the game. The 20+ broodlords were apparently made out of sheer desperation, and he didn't really know MVP's army composition. Such is life.
How does one explain him letting his mineral lines be nuked twice? Or not microing his doom drop at all? Or saccing all those overlords / letting overlords just hang out in the base and get slaughtered while he was already supply blocked? Why was he so slow to rebuild any of his supply?
And yes, NesTea did know MVPs unit composition. He knew MVP had a ton of ghosts. He saw them with his own eyes during the doom drop. Common sense tells you that MVP will only be making more ghosts as the game goes on, because that's what he does in all his late game TvZs. But he made all those brood lords anyway.
Like I said, I'm not accusing NesTea of just outright trying to throw the game. If he was really trying to throw the game, it wouldn't have gone as late as it did. But I do think it's fair to say that NesTea's play was very un-NesTea like. He didn't look like his usual self.
It's fair to speculate about if NesTea was more concerned with giving the crowd an entertaining game rather than trying as hard as possible to crush his teammate. He played VERY cutesy.
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On October 23 2011 12:46 tranmillitary wrote:
You guys are idiots if you think Nestea let MVP win. No one plays for 2nd place. There would be no point letting mvp win. NESTEA CAN'T BEAT MVP PERIOD. Nestea can't even beat bomber or MMA.
people think Nestea is still that good, he's not. Nestea lost to MVP that last couple GSL's.
People are just mad that MVP beat Nestea.
its a bunch of zerg apologists who cant comprehend nestea mishandling the late game that badly. somehow they forget that 99% of his wins vs top terrans come from muta/burrowed baneling baseraces or him facerolling the terran with ling bane muta in the midgame due to a disgusting economy.
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The final game was incredible and definitely not fixed lol. I want to see all you gold-master players beat MVP turtling with his tanks, mass full energy ghosts, PFS, vikings while getting 2-3 nukes + drops all the time. Nestea was kinda clueless what to do in the end.
Oh and getting a nuke on 20 workers really isn't too hard if you have like 6 or more bases and a big army searching for a little red dot while getting dropped or other nukes going...
Ye, they might split the pot. That doesn't mean the winner was fixed. Why in the hell would they do that? Winning big tournaments still gives a lot of fame and playing bad/throwing games damages your reputation.
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Just watched the game.
Nestea really seemed to fall apart at the end. He was doing great handling the drops up until a point then just couldn't keep up.
His decision making was very questionable as well. Floating so many minerals / gas and not going for army trades when he had significantly better income than MVP? He should've just crashed MVPs siege line with banes / lings over and over until MVP finally broke.
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On October 23 2011 12:53 SharkWithLaz0rs wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 12:32 babylon wrote:On October 23 2011 12:28 PikaXchU wrote:
I don't know about anyone else, but is the posting standards on this forum just dropping? Just because Nestea fucks up, everyone resorts to complaining about the match being fixed.
YOU ARE WATCHING THE GAME FROM AN OBSERVER POINT OF VIEW. YOU CAN SEE EVERYTHING. CAN THEY SEE EVERYTHING?! Yeah, someone who was there watching NesTea's ingame view said that he absolutely didn't throw the game. The 20+ broodlords were apparently made out of sheer desperation, and he didn't really know MVP's army composition. Such is life. How does one explain him letting his mineral lines be nuked twice? Or not microing his doom drop at all? Or saccing all those overlords / letting overlords just hang out in the base and get slaughtered while he was already supply blocked? Why was he so slow to rebuild any of his supply? And yes, NesTea did know MVPs unit composition. He knew MVP had a ton of ghosts. He saw them with his own eyes during the doom drop. Common sense tells you that MVP will only be making more ghosts as the game goes on, because that's what he does in all his late game TvZs. But he made all those brood lords anyway. Like I said, I'm not accusing NesTea of just outright trying to throw the game. If he was really trying to throw the game, it wouldn't have gone as late as it did. But I do think it's fair to say that NesTea's play was very un-NesTea like. He didn't look like his usual self. It's fair to speculate about if NesTea was more concerned with giving the crowd an entertaining game rather than trying as hard as possible to crush his teammate. He played VERY cutesy.
nestea has never been known for amazing control and clearly was not comfortable in that late game scenario. he also has never been known for his multitasking and was unable to deal with the crazy sick harass of mvp. nestea isnt even universally considered the best zvt in the world, i dont understand why its so hard for his fans to accept that he botched a super late game tvz scenario that he likely hasnt seen very often
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On October 23 2011 12:46 tranmillitary wrote:
NESTEA CAN'T BEAT MVP PERIOD.
I guess you missed the Winner's Bracket Finals...
Nestea can easily defeat MVP, but the fact is, that has nothing to do with whether or not there was match fixing.
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On October 23 2011 12:46 tranmillitary wrote:
You guys are idiots if you think Nestea let MVP win. No one plays for 2nd place. There would be no point letting mvp win. NESTEA CAN'T BEAT MVP PERIOD. Nestea can't even beat bomber or MMA.
people think Nestea is still that good, he's not. Nestea lost to MVP that last couple GSL's.
People are just mad that MVP beat Nestea.
NesTea can beat Bomber. He has done so before.
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EPT
