On November 04 2011 20:48 Hnnngg wrote: You guys are missing the point.
Let's compare this to something else. Idra's run at IEM Guangzhou. You could've watched Jinro beat Idra in the group stages, and then see Idra beat Puma in a bo5 in the semi-finals. What went different in those games? Puma played well and didn't cheese Idra just to make money.
We've been cheated of great games by Elfi. Shame on him for knocking out DreamHuk, Homestory Huk, and MLG Huklando with 4gate. It's not very sportsman like and my enjoyment of high level games with a Protoss has been dashed.
I do not like you, Mr. Elfi. Not one bit.
I would argue that not attempting to give yourself the best chance of winning is being a bad sport. It is a competition, after all.
If his best chance is doing that, then I don't want to watch. That was rubbish.
That wasn't Idra vs. Bomber, that wasn't Huk vs. MKP, that wasn't Huk vs. July.
I do not like it, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth showing these substandard games.
You do what you have to to win the game, like every other sport...... I see absolutely no problem with what Elfi did there. Huk played badly, Elfi took advantage. What's the problem here?
On November 04 2011 20:48 Hnnngg wrote: You guys are missing the point.
Let's compare this to something else. Idra's run at IEM Guangzhou. You could've watched Jinro beat Idra in the group stages, and then see Idra beat Puma in a bo5 in the semi-finals. What went different in those games? Puma played well and didn't cheese Idra just to make money.
We've been cheated of great games by Elfi. Shame on him for knocking out DreamHuk, Homestory Huk, and MLG Huklando with 4gate. It's not very sportsman like and my enjoyment of high level games with a Protoss has been dashed.
I do not like you, Mr. Elfi. Not one bit.
I would argue that not attempting to give yourself the best chance of winning is being a bad sport. It is a competition, after all.
If his best chance is doing that, then I don't want to watch. That was rubbish.
That wasn't Idra vs. Bomber, that wasn't Huk vs. MKP, that wasn't Huk vs. July.
I do not like it, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth showing these substandard games.
I agree, Elfi should have gone one-base carrier every game. And if he lost he should have removed one piece of clothing, then have a fight to the death against a monkey with forks. This is about winning, not entertainment, sorry that you didn't read that memo
On November 04 2011 20:44 Terminal wrote: If real EU players started going to these bigger tournaments, Huk certainly wouldn't be winning any MLG's etc. Sorry fanboys.
Good job Elfi.
0_0 I always hear euros telling americans how foolish it is to be patriotic and root for players from your area blah blah blah Americans never know euro players blah blah blah....
But then huk loses ONE PvP to a pretty good PvPer and suddenly huk sucks and is falling out of codes S and won't win MLG's if EUROPEANS(!?) go. He beats koreans in GSL all the time and won an MLG (and another and two EUROPEAN tournies) with several very good koreans at it. You can't seriously tell me that huk isn't the best foreigner protoss (until we see another protoss like naniwa or sase start dominating foreign LANs or the GSL). Seriously get some perspective guys.
huk didnt suddenly start sucking b/c he was tired from travel and lost a single PvP. He's still the best toss foreigners have right now.
/rant
His post was obviously an attempt to get a response just as the one you just provided. Just don't give him the satisfaction.
On November 04 2011 20:54 LittleAtari wrote: why is such a short tournament single elimination :<
well at least huk is playing in the show matches.
Because it's best of 5. You don't play double-elim Best of 5 invitationals, that's just silly. BO5s can drag on for ages, plus setup time for players and scheduled breaks, you can't play double-elimination in that format.
On November 04 2011 20:48 Hnnngg wrote: You guys are missing the point.
Let's compare this to something else. Idra's run at IEM Guangzhou. You could've watched Jinro beat Idra in the group stages, and then see Idra beat Puma in a bo5 in the semi-finals. What went different in those games? Puma played well and didn't cheese Idra just to make money.
We've been cheated of great games by Elfi. Shame on him for knocking out DreamHuk, Homestory Huk, and MLG Huklando with 4gate. It's not very sportsman like and my enjoyment of high level games with a Protoss has been dashed.
I do not like you, Mr. Elfi. Not one bit.
When you play badly, you lose. This, my friend, is an easy to understand fact of life. Huk just played horribly, what's the big deal...
Elfi can't play as well as Huk.
I won't be able to watch Huk because Elfi beat him with 4gate.
Good Huk games are gone for this weekend. I have to settle with Elfi.
Why are people arguing about this. HuK and elfi are both great PvPers. It's a volatile match up and HuK made some mistakes. There's no reason for fans for either player to be mad or upset at the other. Someone has to lose and players will always make mistakes, especially in PvP. Sheesh.
On November 04 2011 20:47 mazqo wrote: There are plenty of guides how to stop 4gate. You cant just make a sentry. You have to go outside of your base either with 1 zealot and 2 stalker or 3 stalkers to stop other guy warping under your ramp @ 5:45, so you force them to warp from further distance which buys you time to get sentry and warpgate ready.
I think you meant to say "You can just make a sentry". There was nothing dangerous about elfi's 4gate (well at least the last one) except the raw unit count and warpgate timing. Just forcefield your ramp, warp in your units and you're good to go. The danger of 4gate nowadays is having a pylon below his ramp or even worse, in his main. There was nothing of this sort in the last game.
No. If you make Zealot Stalker sentry, opponent can just come to your base with zealot and 2 stalkers or zealot and 1 stalker and force you to use your forcefield while building pylon under your ramp and then inside your base. Just like we saw in 3rd game, except elfi didnt 4gate there, but if he did, he would have won.
If you go zealot stalker sentry you can ff the ramp and not let the probe into your base while warping in another sentry.
HuK scouted the 4 gate after his 2nd stalker was halfway complete he couldn;t cancel it and then make a sentry he would have lost even worse.
Elfis wg research finished about 4-5 secs ahead of huk and that let him get up the ramp
Elfi beat a REALLY SHIT HuK, if you dont see HuK playing REALLY bad then you don't know what HuK is capable of.
Elfi did a straight up build multiple times and HuK played like he was still asleep. If you follow him on twitter and shit, you will see that he said HE IS SO TIRED. He played like he was Tired, im pretty sure that if you think Elfi and his 60-20 something win rate in PvP is better than HuKs ownage of Naniwa/MC/Killer and others in Korea in PvP is still worst than Elfi the "king of PvP" then your all dillusional.
Elfi won, well done he beat a really tired/jet lagged HuK in his home country.
Elfi 60% win rate on EU ladder @ PvP vs HuK PvP legend on KR and in BIG level tournaments....Elfi is way better yo
Next time at work, I will state "I am tired" in the morning, then whenever I make a mistake I can just blame that. Sure he was tired, but if you are SO much better, then you win anyway. Your statement was pretty much the essence of someone being butthurt...
Bring a work quote into a proffesional sport anaylsis is pretty lame.
If your tired in any sport you cannot perform to your best level fact (i guess even at work) but if your tired for no reason of your own (being jet lagged is hard to help when you have a tough schedule) is going to effect your game play on multiple levels, micro macro and mechanics will all be effected. You saw after game 2 he was begining to falter pretty badly. BUT like everyone seems to be saying Elfi > HuK even though one is clearly better at the game than the other :S Makes no sense, no 1 is arguing he won, but he won vs a player who was tired and on paper 100x better than him, why are people jumping on the friggin band waggen saying Elfi is a fkn PvP god, i bet theres fkn Masters players on EU with better win rate than Elfi -_- and Elfi is 60% win rate PvP on the EU ladder how is that even a good argument lol?
On November 04 2011 20:44 Terminal wrote: If real EU players started going to these bigger tournaments, Huk certainly wouldn't be winning any MLG's etc. Sorry fanboys.
Good job Elfi.
0_0 I always hear euros telling americans how foolish it is to be patriotic and root for players from your area blah blah blah Americans never know euro players blah blah blah....
But then huk loses ONE PvP to a pretty good PvPer and suddenly huk sucks and is falling out of codes S and won't win MLG's if EUROPEANS(!?) go. He beats koreans in GSL all the time and won an MLG (and another and two EUROPEAN tournies) with several very good koreans at it. You can't seriously tell me that huk isn't the best foreigner protoss (until we see another protoss like naniwa or sase start dominating foreign LANs or the GSL). Seriously get some perspective guys.
huk didnt suddenly start sucking b/c he was tired from travel and lost a single PvP. He's still the best toss foreigners have right now.
/rant
This is a L-R thread. We work in the utmost extremes here and nothing else. Player A wins and he's gods gift to starcraft. While Player B should retire and dig ditches instead.
On November 04 2011 20:55 how2TL wrote: Without pools, a lack of a loser's bracket is so upsetting.
honestly this. it's sad that huk flies halfway round the world from wherever he was (i lose track of the mysterious travels of mr loranger, so where he's come from, i don't know), and is done in one pvp series. they have so much time, and could very, very easily fit in an all-play-all if they grabbed a couple of extra PCs. oh well.
On November 04 2011 20:56 Jibba wrote: Why are people arguing about this. HuK and elfi are both great PvPers. It's a volatile match up and HuK made some mistakes. There's no reason for fans for either player to be mad or upset at the other. Someone has to lose and players will always make mistakes, especially in PvP. Sheesh.
Agreed. People are freaking out about one bo5 and it's silly.
Especially the people bashing entire nations, (Both Europeans and North Americans) that's just ridiculous to lump a whole country or collection of countries and talk trash on every player from there.
On November 04 2011 20:44 Terminal wrote: If real EU players started going to these bigger tournaments, Huk certainly wouldn't be winning any MLG's etc. Sorry fanboys.
Good job Elfi.
0_0 I always hear euros telling americans how foolish it is to be patriotic and root for players from your area blah blah blah Americans never know euro players blah blah blah....
But then huk loses ONE PvP to a pretty good PvPer and suddenly huk sucks and is falling out of codes S and won't win MLG's if EUROPEANS(!?) go. He beats koreans in GSL all the time and won an MLG (and another and two EUROPEAN tournies) with several very good koreans at it. You can't seriously tell me that huk isn't the best foreigner protoss (until we see another protoss like naniwa or sase start dominating foreign LANs or the GSL). Seriously get some perspective guys.
huk didnt suddenly start sucking b/c he was tired from travel and lost a single PvP. He's still the best toss foreigners have right now.
/rant
This is a L-R thread. We work in the utmost extremes here and nothing else. Player A wins and he's gods gift to starcraft. While Player B should retire and dig ditches instead.
On November 04 2011 20:39 syllogism wrote: It's hard to take the game seriously as long as sub-100 [old] apm, 0 multitasking players are competitive at this level. For a while it looked like we had reached the point that they weren't, but at least in some matchups that's unfortunately not the case
what i saw was elfi outmicroing and multitasking huk in the early game, huk just played bad today and elfi is really good
Where is an example of that? Huk held a 4 gate with only 1 gate and won the zealot/stalker battle. And huk did some decent probe harrass... bah I give up, but Elfi is definitely not the better player
Yep he isnt but his PvP is waaayyy better
That's a pretty bold complain after HuK beat oGsMC 4-1 at MLG. I guess Elfi is way waaayyy better than MC then?
Elfi played better than HuK these games. That's all you should make of it. HuK has proven he's one of the best (if not the best) foreign player. Him losing one game doesn't change that.
In PvP, their recent history would suggest so. At ESWC elfi beat mana in the group-stage and mana beat MC in the play-offs.
On November 04 2011 20:47 mazqo wrote: There are plenty of guides how to stop 4gate. You cant just make a sentry. You have to go outside of your base either with 1 zealot and 2 stalker or 3 stalkers to stop other guy warping under your ramp @ 5:45, so you force them to warp from further distance which buys you time to get sentry and warpgate ready.
I think you meant to say "You can just make a sentry". There was nothing dangerous about elfi's 4gate (well at least the last one) except the raw unit count and warpgate timing. Just forcefield your ramp, warp in your units and you're good to go. The danger of 4gate nowadays is having a pylon below his ramp or even worse, in his main. There was nothing of this sort in the last game.
No. If you make Zealot Stalker sentry, opponent can just come to your base with zealot and 2 stalkers or zealot and 1 stalker and force you to use your forcefield while building pylon under your ramp and then inside your base. Just like we saw in 3rd game, except elfi didnt 4gate there, but if he did, he would have won.
If you go zealot stalker sentry you can ff the ramp and not let the probe into your base while warping in another sentry.
HuK scouted the 4 gate after his 2nd stalker was halfway complete he couldn;t cancel it and then make a sentry he would have lost even worse.
Elfis wg research finished about 4-5 secs ahead of huk and that let him get up the ramp
Im sure you dont play pvp at high level or you dont play protoss at all, you should check your timings. You cant warp second sentry because your warpgates arent ready. Please dont make these kind of posts if you dont have any knowledge.
On November 04 2011 20:54 LittleAtari wrote: why is such a short tournament single elimination :<
well at least huk is playing in the show matches.
Because it's best of 5. You don't play double-elim Best of 5 invitationals, that's just silly. BO5s can drag on for ages, plus setup time for players and scheduled breaks, you can't play double-elimination in that format.
Regarding your tweet, even knowing the "facts", you can be surprised to see a mechanically subpar player win, even in this matchup. TLPD stats don't particularly matter anyway given that these players rarely play against korean level players
On November 04 2011 20:55 how2TL wrote: Without pools, a lack of a loser's bracket is so upsetting.
honestly this. it's sad that huk flies halfway round the world from wherever he was (i lose track of the mysterious travels of mr loranger, so where he's come from, i don't know), and is done in one pvp series. they have so much time, and could very, very easily fit in an all-play-all if they grabbed a couple of extra PCs. oh well.
"So much time", you do not randomly reschedule games in a tournament that uses a BO5 format. The amount of time a BO5 can take is far too variable to go off schedule. Remember SCI2, Morrow vs SeleCT? Yeah, that.
On November 04 2011 20:48 Hnnngg wrote: You guys are missing the point.
Let's compare this to something else. Idra's run at IEM Guangzhou. You could've watched Jinro beat Idra in the group stages, and then see Idra beat Puma in a bo5 in the semi-finals. What went different in those games? Puma played well and didn't cheese Idra just to make money.
We've been cheated of great games by Elfi. Shame on him for knocking out DreamHuk, Homestory Huk, and MLG Huklando with 4gate. It's not very sportsman like and my enjoyment of high level games with a Protoss has been dashed.
I do not like you, Mr. Elfi. Not one bit.
When you play badly, you lose. This, my friend, is an easy to understand fact of life. Huk just played horribly, what's the big deal...
Elfi can't play as well as Huk.
I won't be able to watch Huk because Elfi beat him with 4gate.
Good Huk games are gone for this weekend. I have to settle with Elfi.
Sorry but you are an idiot.
Its tournament not showmatch, Jaedong 4pooled many times, Flash BBSed many times, get to your head that players play to win, and blaming them for it is stupidest thing ive seen.
On November 04 2011 20:44 Terminal wrote: If real EU players started going to these bigger tournaments, Huk certainly wouldn't be winning any MLG's etc. Sorry fanboys.
Good job Elfi.
0_0 I always hear euros telling americans how foolish it is to be patriotic and root for players from your area blah blah blah Americans never know euro players blah blah blah....
But then huk loses ONE PvP to a pretty good PvPer and suddenly huk sucks and is falling out of codes S and won't win MLG's if EUROPEANS(!?) go. He beats koreans in GSL all the time and won an MLG (and another and two EUROPEAN tournies) with several very good koreans at it. You can't seriously tell me that huk isn't the best foreigner protoss (until we see another protoss like naniwa or sase start dominating foreign LANs or the GSL). Seriously get some perspective guys.
huk didnt suddenly start sucking b/c he was tired from travel and lost a single PvP. He's still the best toss foreigners have right now.
/rant
This is a L-R thread. We work in the utmost extremes here and nothing else. Player A wins and he's gods gift to starcraft. While Player B should retire and dig ditches instead.
EPT
