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stormtemplar
United States2140 Posts
On September 27 2011 04:48 sitromit wrote: So why are Protoss entitled to maps with lots of chokes so they can take expansions with impunity? We need more maps with 20% ZvP win rates like Daybreak? Protoss is entitled to enough chokes that they can win games. Under 30% winrate on daybreak is unacceptable for any race, both should be fixed. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
this can be beaten by a faster lair accompanied by double evo upgrades to compensate vs regular builds. note how lucky learned from game 1 and used zerglings to protect from DTs zerglings are some of the best defense vs DTs since they can block important buildings from death and kill DTs pretty fast. generally if zergs play this properly things work out to be a 4-5 base zerg vs 3-4 base protoss and games become much larger. the fast expo DT has weaknesses in which zerg can harrass with using zerglings + mutalisks to harrass in this weakpoints without going all in. and allowing them to take and secure a fourth base. | ||
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CeriseCherries
6170 Posts
at least protoss is less sad | ||
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Cassel_Castle
United States820 Posts
On September 27 2011 00:54 sitromit wrote: It's the kind of Protoss "skill" where they cancel their nexus and 4 gate while forcefielding the ramp of the Zerg, so he can't even reinforce, while the Toss keeps warping in units at their heart's content from their conveniently placed nearby pylons. It takes an extreme amount of skill. You have to keep pressing "F"! It's also nearly impossible on most current maps since you can engage with spines and lings really far away from the ramp. | ||
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Choboo
Sweden2088 Posts
On September 27 2011 04:48 sitromit wrote: So why are Protoss entitled to maps with lots of chokes so they can take expansions with impunity? We need more maps with 20% ZvP win rates like Daybreak? Daybreak is DRG's favorite map :oo | ||
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Brotatolol
United States1742 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland18421 Posts
'Sage won with an exploitation of the timings on a quick third hatch + delayed lair to beat a Zerg with minimal detection = new king of Protoss' 'MC only won with timing knowledge and exploiting them, he's figured out and now sucks' Both of these players are talented talented guys. Far too much bandwagoning on these forums. | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
On September 27 2011 04:53 MrCon wrote: Bleh. So Daybreak with its 22% ZvP winrate is not ok but Dual Sight with its 28% PvZ is ? Daybreak is still a very new map and I hold my opinion until more games are played on it. A lot of the losses I attribute to the other player being better, not the map. On the other hand Dual Sight is tried and tested yet Protoss still has an abysmal record on it. That map may need revisions. To your other comment about overseers and spores in the main/third/natural/proxied on the other side of the map. I suppose it is a weighted risk. You can't afford to be everywhere without being behind and you gamble on where you defend. We saw two Zergs lose to great DT placement. We also saw Huk look just as bad because he tried to DT through the natural. I think the solution is less spores or the same amount of spores and a overseer at home. At only the third of the prior cost, it seems silly not to make one. Ubertron: You're missing the point where Sage appeared with zealots and DTs. I don't have the urge to dissect the differences in Sage and MCs current play but instead: Sage is putting up results, MC is not. There are differences, even if not fundamental ones, in the players approach to the game. | ||
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snakeeyez
United States1231 Posts
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Hierarch
United States2197 Posts
On September 27 2011 10:45 Ubertron wrote: Ok to summarise: 'Sage won with an exploitation of the timings on a quick third hatch + delayed lair to beat a Zerg with minimal detection = new king of Protoss' 'MC only won with timing knowledge and exploiting them, he's figured out and now sucks' Both of these players are talented talented guys. Far too much bandwagoning on these forums. Atleast he's trying something new, I mean c'mon he did archon drops :D | ||
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rezoacken
Canada2719 Posts
A timing is different than an all in (or usually a timing all-in). Starcraft is all about timings... and timing attacks. What do you want player to do ? attack at random time when the opponent is the strongest lol ? | ||
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bittman
Australia8759 Posts
On September 27 2011 13:04 rezoacken wrote: Why are some people criticizing Sage for timing attacks ? A timing is different than an all in (or usually a timing all-in). Starcraft is all about timings... and timing attacks. What do you want player to do ? attack at random time when the opponent is the strongest lol ? Hahaha. Every player does timing attacks, but for some reason when used on a Protoss player the term "timing attack" has become a negative. Any attack that is planned is a timing attack, meant to line up with something. Whether new research, new units, a falter by the enemy, etc. To be honest I'm not sure what a "timing attack" is, but I would guess a "planned offensive against the opponent in order to line up with research" is the definition? And I don't see any issue with this. Sage uses timing attacks? Fantastic, so does every other player. | ||
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JesusOurSaviour
Australia1141 Posts
On September 27 2011 10:57 snakeeyez wrote: Pimpest plays incoming Sage is pimp. Who would think when they see a doom zerg drop to drop down a bunch of pylons to cut up the zerg roaches knowing they have bad range so his 6 range stalkers can pick them off without wasting an force fields? One protoss I can think of his name is Sage.  I hope some youtube fanatic does a pimpest plays of 2011 for SCII. A perfectly executed warp prism HT-drop-storm combo would definitely feature | ||
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hai2u
688 Posts
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
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RinconH
United States512 Posts
Bringing hope. I want to see what he does vs. Terran though... specifically holding early all-ins/timings. He's only played Z so far... | ||
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