EPT[GSL] Oct Code S RO32 Day 1 - Page 104
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sitromit
7051 Posts
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MrSalamandra
United Kingdom412 Posts
On September 21 2011 00:34 ForeverSleep wrote: so what? is there really a difference between 27 and 32? too many is too many... 27 is the absolute most there could possibly be, it's still incredibly unlikely. The most that the GSL could do to fix the disproportionate representation is to increase turnover by putting it back to the original 2 people per group going to the up & downs. With the current Up & Down system (which I think is far better than the really silly 3rd & Code A players get two attempts while the 4th gets 1 in best of 3s) being group stages, the numbers actually wouldn't quite work anymore (23 is a prime number) due to the winner of Code A getting automatically into Code S (which I also think is good). So they'd have to do what they did in July (losers of ro16 have another mini-tournament to add another to the Up & Downs) or do something else. I think Gom want Code S to be fairly stable, so I'm not sure they'd go back to that now. Might just have to wait for patches and it to reach a sort of equilibrium. Also 27 is quite a bit different from 32. Makes the difference between 5 non-terrans and 0. 5 is a infinite percentage increase from 0. Again, there aren't going to be 27 Terrans next season. On September 21 2011 00:45 sitromit wrote: Too bad for Puzzle but he deserves to go to up-and-downs for 4 gating and getting supply blocked... Massive supply block into horribly executed 4 gate. His 4 gate still would have worked if he hadn't wasted time on the orbital, walked into a wall and waited until stim finished. | ||
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OMGIllithan
United States101 Posts
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Sarang
Australia2363 Posts
On September 21 2011 00:44 TERRANLOL wrote: Why are the games in group B so UNrecommended by the community? Puzzle vs. Bomber was Bomber winning a macro game with no 1/1/1 in sight, but because he's Terran people raged at imbalance and voted against it because of that. Ryung vs. Bomber was a really long and high level, but kind of un-interesting TvT if you're not a particular fan of either player. Puzzle vs. MKP was Puzzle screwing up a 4gate and losing (I think). I'm not sure about MKP vs. Bomber, I think MKP played badly though. Couldn't watch that game at the time, I'm loading it now though. | ||
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marttorn
Norway5211 Posts
On September 21 2011 00:55 Sarang wrote: Puzzle vs. Bomber was Bomber winning a macro game with no 1/1/1 in sight, but because he's Terran people raged at imbalance and voted against it because of that. Ryung vs. Bomber was a really long and high level, but kind of un-interesting TvT if you're not a particular fan of either player. Puzzle vs. MKP was Puzzle screwing up a 4gate and losing (I think). I'm not sure about MKP vs. Bomber, I think MKP played badly though. Couldn't watch that game at the time, I'm loading it now though. The age old "truth" of the balance whiner: If you lose in the early game, it's cheese. If you lose in the midgame, it's all-in If you lose in the lategame, it's imbalance. | ||
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Maghetti
United States2429 Posts
On September 20 2011 23:24 Biane wrote: If your definition of gimmicky is unconventional, then I have nothing to argue there cause that just happens to be a matter of differences in personal opinion. That bolded part is an exaggeration I will not stand for unfortunately (or aka, cheesy). Yes he can 1 base, but where are those 50% of the time he 1 bases? Certainly not in these group matches, in the up and downs he 1 based once? (or twice, can't remember exactly) out of the 6 group matches he played out of desperation to get back into code S (the especially effectively proven 1-1-1 against toss). During his code A matches, how matches did he 1 based against Ganzi? Leenock? jjajki? None afair. If we want to talk about cheesy why not talk about the proxy barracks that Ryung did? Unless you're going to tell me that MKP did an economical cheese then i'll have nothing say there cause yes it is a risk he takes especially when cc-ing 1st. on quote of some stuff you said earlier: + Show Spoiler + He gained his fan base through extremely gimmicky play, and constant allins. A good deal of his fan base was gained at the get go in Open Season 2 i believe with his insane marine micro (which at that time was practically 'never seen before'), his awesome comebacks against kyrix, the way he dismantled rainbow, and the nail-biting finals right up to game 7 with nestea. Since then he hasn't looked as good as he did back then as other players got better alongside him too but every now and then we see flashes of his brilliance such as the comeback against MC in the GSL WC, the epic base trade against Nada in GSL Jan (where the base trade shenanigans in TvT all started). MKP practically pioneered a number of the TvZ/TvT strats (alot of them, marine / microed centered) used for the first half of this year, a number of which are still used occasionally (though some of them outdated in the metagame today, though don't forget, the game is always evolving). Basically, TvT/TvZ wouldn't have been the same (or at least, wouldn't have evolved the same way to the point it did today) if it wasn't for MKP. We, his fans love him for that (and of course because he's cute >.<, emotional (wears his emotion on his sleeves), and he's good looking, oh and the kong line too!). He may have looked cheesy back in season 2 with the marine scv's all in crap, but hey, sc2 in open season 2 is so different to the way it is now. MKP gained his fan base for who he is and what he has done for SC2, not because he's extremely gimmicky and an all-inner (like TheBest, which now isn't even a fair statement as we all know, he can macro, just that he had nerve issues) My definition of gimmicky is probably roughly something that works based on your opponent making a mistake. It is why i view bio vs mech to be gimmicky because you need to catch the meching player making a mistake to kill them. 50% was a rough guess. Whenever I say "like" in that context it is supposed to represent that it is a rough estimate. The point simply being he cheeses waaaaay more than your typical high level terran. I didn't say he always 1bases, he does play straight forward plenty as well. Also I understand that the 1/1/1 was his surest way to get back to code S, but it is also a build I respect terrans for not using. It is 1 basing on steroids. I find it shameful whenever used really. As for Ryung, I am not against cheese 100% of the time. It is a good tactic as a reaction to a greedy opening, or something to mix into your play to prevent people from blind countering you. Plus what Ryung did wasn't really cheese as he was going mech, the rax had little importance and was there to counter the typical MKP build. I already cleared this up. He got popular from very cool stuff like marine splits vs baneling, etc, etc, etc. I get why he got popular. I didn't enjoy his play back in those days nearly as much as some because I felt it was gimmicky but I still enjoyed it a lot. What I don't get is why he still has as many fans as he does. The game has changed a lot and yet these days he still does a lot of things that are quite boring. No one enjoys 2 rax allins or 1/1/1s, etc. It has been a long time since he has shown enjoyable play. So many gimmicks, so many boring cheeses and base trades, etc. I just do not find his style enjoyable at all. I feel if he didn't have the famous past and showed up just 1 GSL ago people would not be into him at all. | ||
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MaBe
United States97 Posts
What was mkp doing? I mean the last game it seemed like he hasn't evolved with the metagame. TvT is so eh with the potential to be an interesting game. | ||
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Reasonable
Ukraine1432 Posts
 I knew Clide would take it exactly like that. Never doubted him. | ||
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noddy
United Kingdom927 Posts
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Zombie_Velociraptor
274 Posts
My definition of gimmicky is probably roughly something that works based on your opponent making a mistake. It is why i view bio vs mech to be gimmicky because you need to catch the meching player making a mistake to kill them. Don't want to take any sides in this (although I like MKP a lot, personally, I can see how some might hate him), but over the course of Brood War's history, a lot of incredible players became bonjwas in a somewhat similar way. Boxer's play was always about pressuring his opponents into messing up, splitting their attention and capitalizing on them being unable to keep up with what he's got planned. Quite a few famous Oov games were based on him taking unexpected risks and getting away with it, because no one expected him to do it. Saviour was basically the king of winning off the back of other's mistakes, and had made the most incredible winning streaks in all of Brood War that way. Not to compare MKP to the people I named, he's obviously no bonjwa, but insisting someone is 'bad' because his playstyle is different from what is perceived to be the best 'straight up' play is pretty short-sighted. | ||
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MoriyaGXP
Korea (South)240 Posts
if u only win 1 and stay in code S forever that's just to secure isn't fair | ||
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SgtPepper
United States568 Posts
On September 21 2011 01:33 Zombie_Velociraptor wrote: Don't want to take any sides in this (although I like MKP a lot, personally, I can see how some might hate him), but over the course of Brood War's history, a lot of incredible players became bonjwas in a somewhat similar way. Boxer's play was always about pressuring his opponents into messing up, splitting their attention and capitalizing on them being unable to keep up with what he's got planned. Quite a few famous Oov games were based on him taking unexpected risks and getting away with it, because no one expected him to do it. Saviour was basically the king of winning off the back of other's mistakes, and had made the most incredible winning streaks in all of Brood War that way. Not to compare MKP to the people I named, he's obviously no bonjwa, but insisting someone is 'bad' because his playstyle is different from what is perceived to be the best 'straight up' play is pretty short-sighted. Every once in a while someone actually says something in an LR thread that makes a lot of sense. Thank you. | ||
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nvs.
Canada3609 Posts
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DarkRise
1644 Posts
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MrSalamandra
United Kingdom412 Posts
On September 21 2011 01:52 DarkRise wrote: what can puzzle do? A lamb (toss) in a den of wolves (terrans). In his second game, he could have not done: "Massive supply block into horribly executed 4 gate. His 4 gate still would have worked if he hadn't wasted time on the orbital, walked into a wall and waited until stim finished." Seriously, that was absolutely terrible play by him. | ||
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darkest44
United States1009 Posts
Then again once in a while someone bad like inca gets a lucky easy bracket and makes it to the final to get stomped so who knows.. | ||
Poopi
France13023 Posts
On September 21 2011 02:03 darkest44 wrote: I think MKPs kong days are over. I can't imagine him making it anywhere near a code s final anymore. There's simply too many terrans better than him now and its been months like this I doubt he's suddenly going to drastically improve out of nowhere. Especially since Prime simply doesn't have very good people to train/strategize with honestly... especially with Polt gone. He will start crushing everyone (except Mvp) in TvT again when marine tank will be standart (after 1.4 patch), you will see that at MLG & GSL. GanZi is a very good terran and he didn't stand a chance in marine tank in the code A final, so it's promising :D | ||
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OrchidThief
Denmark2298 Posts
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JiYan
United States3668 Posts
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hai2u
688 Posts
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