[IEM] Gamescom - Day 4 - Page 6

On August 20 2011 08:12 Sabu113 wrote:


That was fast.

Nani Huk.

Now compare them to the rest of the foreign scene.

Yeah. Foreign Toss are excellent and are a cut better than any other race. Mana has been playing very well lately and socke has always had lovely control. Zergs are very good but it's notable that the top foreign zergs are marked by the decision to leave korea because they do not like mass gaming regimes. Foreign terrans all have bits of play. Qxc has his gorgeous drop play. Thorzain has his ingenious build orders and straight up fights. Fenix, Major, and inneumerable other decent foreign terrans are just that Decent but not particularaly special. Very few complete foreign terrans with tiptop control and multitasking like in korea where emp and simultaneous drops (besides 1/1/1) are central to cutting a good toss down.

Bleh. We should be hyping some amazing games. Time to see if Puma was a one hit wonder.

On August 20 2011 08:32 stevorino wrote:



i think Puma has already proven it with the semis, dude....

On August 20 2011 08:12 HolyArrow wrote:


The problem with your generalization is that my numbers are way more rigorous than yours. You're looking at immediate numbers (the amount of Zergs in Code S Ro16 at the moment? The amount of Zergs in top 4 of IEM? Please.) - I'm looking at overall stats.

Evidence:

1. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=252455

2. http://i.imgur.com/bdP2e.png

Numbers are not simply numbers. That's a huge generalization that discounts the value numbers have in illustrating trends. When you use immediate numbers, they have no value because they don't show any overall trends. The numbers I used do indeed show overall trends, and thus are far more valuable than your numbers.

Anyway, the only point I wanted to make was to argue that looking at results in EU doesn't indicate as much about balance as results in KR does (the reason for all the Protoss whine is due to the results in KR - you can't use EU results to discount that). I got pulled off course by a terrible generalization about the value of numbers that I couldn't help but address.

On August 20 2011 08:41 fraktoasters wrote:


......wat... all you say is that "your numbers" show trends but then don't elaborate on these trends that support you apparently. The only trend I see is that the winrates of PvT/Z keeps switching in favor of different races.

On August 20 2011 09:00 HolyArrow wrote:


I don't really know how to respond to you, because I honestly feel like you're just missing some key things that are quite obvious to me. I'll humor you with a couple key points, though:

1. Look at the first piece of evidence I linked you to. Look at Protoss's overall winrate against other races, along with overall tournament results. Observe them. Should be pretty self-evident to me.

2. Observe that winrate graph more closely, instead of making the generalization that the "winrates... keep switching in favor of different races". Observe that, since April, Protoss has either been way behind in the metagame or even in the metagame, never ahead, against other races.

I believe that supports my argument of why the Protoss whine understandably exists. I'm frankly getting a bit tired of discussing things with you because you keep on making huge and erroneous generalizations to all my points ("Everyone can use numbers to back up whatever they want", "Winrates in PvT/Z keeps shifting in favor of different races"), making me think that my effort is merely wasted on someone that just wants to be as contrary as possible without doing any critical thinking.

On August 20 2011 08:32 WarrickHunt wrote:
I hate how underpwered toss is atm and OP zerg is

On August 20 2011 08:12 Sabu113 wrote:


Bleh. We should be hyping some amazing games. Time to see if Puma was a one hit wonder.

On August 20 2011 09:23 Zealot Lord wrote:
man these LR threads recently always get ruined because protoss-haters constantly try to rile up toss players =/ as soon as a few protoss wins they go "UP? yea right lololol" as if one short foreign tournament means something.

based on statistics protoss has clearly been the worst race since after March, whether they are too weak and in need of a buff, I'm not going to comment on, but to deny that they aren't struggling big time in the current metagame of Korea is just pure bias. In Korea, out of the last 4 months, protoss has had 2 months with respective win rates of 32% and 40.9%, which is since release historically the lowest win percentage from any race.

so my point is, instead of flooding LR threads with troll-like posts such as "protoss too weak? top 4 3 toss, nuff' said" to encourage endless arguments that ruin threads, people (this goes for the future as well) should just not make unnecessary comments which you know would piss off players of the race that is currently struggling the most (as the data proves). I guarantee you the total amount of QQ will go down because you won't see half as many posts which are based on 'having to defend' why the race is weak.