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Please keep the following things out of this topic:
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-Imbalance/race whine;
-LoL vs the world arguments;
-'Omfg cant believe people aren't watching SPL finals' comments;
-any other assorted offtopic negativism and arguments.
Enjoy this free multiday/multigame event that has been provided to you. Share your enthusiasm for the games!
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On August 20 2011 06:22 Choboo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2011 06:18 Jinivus wrote:On August 20 2011 06:14 Fenrisulf wrote:On August 20 2011 05:58 Sailincieri wrote:On August 20 2011 05:54 hugman wrote:
I don't think MaNa has a chance vs MC =/ I don't think of him as a micro player Mana have one of the best micro in Europe  perhaps but MC have one of the best micro in Korea...if not THE best This. He wins PvZ purely on control and micro...failed dt opening into winning for MC  Yeah but he is actually not that solid in PvP anymore (since 4gate went out of style). He's lost to both Hongun and Alicia recently. And at HSC3 he lost to Naniwa and Huk. Do you remember his semi-finals vs San? He basically won with two 4gates and one cannon rush and at DH invitational finals (vs Whitera) it was 3-2 and the games MC won was two 4 gates and a proxy gateway. Nowadays he seems to be struggling, might have figured it out now tho.
What? How did 4gate go out of style? In every game he lost to HongUn, he lost AGAINST 4gates. You can't just attribute his PvP losses to "4gate going out of style" when some of his losses were to the 4gate.
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On August 20 2011 06:27 Jinivus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2011 06:22 Choboo wrote:On August 20 2011 06:18 Jinivus wrote:On August 20 2011 06:14 Fenrisulf wrote:On August 20 2011 05:58 Sailincieri wrote:On August 20 2011 05:54 hugman wrote:
I don't think MaNa has a chance vs MC =/ I don't think of him as a micro player Mana have one of the best micro in Europe perhaps but MC have one of the best micro in Korea...if not THE best This. He wins PvZ purely on control and micro...failed dt opening into winning for MC Yeah but he is actually not that solid in PvP anymore (since 4gate went out of style). He's lost to both Hongun and Alicia recently. And at HSC3 he lost to Naniwa and Huk. Do you remember his semi-finals vs San? He basically won with two 4gates and one cannon rush and at DH invitational finals (vs Whitera) it was 3-2 and the games MC won was two 4 gates and a proxy gateway. Nowadays he seems to be struggling, might have figured it out now tho. 4 gate is still pretty much as good as ever and used alot. Attributing his losses to the 4 gate nerf or decline is pretty silly IMO. only Inca has a pvp record that is even close to his.
I'm just saying that MC's recent PvP results are pretty bad. The only real win is vs Huk in the GSL but Huk just made some silly decisions in those games. I dunno tho, he's been in Korea and practicing for a while now so he has probably solved his PvP problems now.
On August 20 2011 06:29 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2011 06:22 Choboo wrote:On August 20 2011 06:18 Jinivus wrote:On August 20 2011 06:14 Fenrisulf wrote:On August 20 2011 05:58 Sailincieri wrote:On August 20 2011 05:54 hugman wrote:
I don't think MaNa has a chance vs MC =/ I don't think of him as a micro player Mana have one of the best micro in Europe perhaps but MC have one of the best micro in Korea...if not THE best This. He wins PvZ purely on control and micro...failed dt opening into winning for MC Yeah but he is actually not that solid in PvP anymore (since 4gate went out of style). He's lost to both Hongun and Alicia recently. And at HSC3 he lost to Naniwa and Huk. Do you remember his semi-finals vs San? He basically won with two 4gates and one cannon rush and at DH invitational finals (vs Whitera) it was 3-2 and the games MC won was two 4 gates and a proxy gateway. Nowadays he seems to be struggling, might have figured it out now tho. What? How did 4gate go out of style? In every game he lost to HongUn, he lost AGAINST 4gates. You can't just attribute his PvP losses to "4gate going out of style" when some of his losses were to the 4gate.
The thing is that before PvP was decided by who had the best 4gate and who controlled best. Now it's more up to mind games. MC didn't lose those games because he controlled bad but because he fell to some mind games. Didn't expect him to 4gate etc. Therefor MC's PvP isn't as strong as before. Nestea is so good at ZvZ, not because he has the best control (like MC) but because he's smartest and always succeed in his mind games (Nestea vs Losira finals).
The reason Nestea is so good is because he's smarter than everyone and can just mindgame everyone and prepare well. And the reason MC is so good is because of his control, he usually get the shorter end of a build order but still wins. But in these volatile mirror matchups Mind games > control currently.
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On August 20 2011 06:31 Choboo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2011 06:27 Jinivus wrote:On August 20 2011 06:22 Choboo wrote:On August 20 2011 06:18 Jinivus wrote:On August 20 2011 06:14 Fenrisulf wrote:On August 20 2011 05:58 Sailincieri wrote:On August 20 2011 05:54 hugman wrote:
I don't think MaNa has a chance vs MC =/ I don't think of him as a micro player Mana have one of the best micro in Europe perhaps but MC have one of the best micro in Korea...if not THE best This. He wins PvZ purely on control and micro...failed dt opening into winning for MC Yeah but he is actually not that solid in PvP anymore (since 4gate went out of style). He's lost to both Hongun and Alicia recently. And at HSC3 he lost to Naniwa and Huk. Do you remember his semi-finals vs San? He basically won with two 4gates and one cannon rush and at DH invitational finals (vs Whitera) it was 3-2 and the games MC won was two 4 gates and a proxy gateway. Nowadays he seems to be struggling, might have figured it out now tho. 4 gate is still pretty much as good as ever and used alot. Attributing his losses to the 4 gate nerf or decline is pretty silly IMO. only Inca has a pvp record that is even close to his. I'm just saying that MC's recent PvP results are pretty bad. The only real win is vs Huk in the GSL but Huk just made some silly decisions in those games. I dunno tho, he's been in Korea and practicing for a while now so he has probably solved his PvP problems now. Show nested quote +On August 20 2011 06:29 HolyArrow wrote:On August 20 2011 06:22 Choboo wrote:On August 20 2011 06:18 Jinivus wrote:On August 20 2011 06:14 Fenrisulf wrote:On August 20 2011 05:58 Sailincieri wrote:On August 20 2011 05:54 hugman wrote:
I don't think MaNa has a chance vs MC =/ I don't think of him as a micro player Mana have one of the best micro in Europe perhaps but MC have one of the best micro in Korea...if not THE best This. He wins PvZ purely on control and micro...failed dt opening into winning for MC Yeah but he is actually not that solid in PvP anymore (since 4gate went out of style). He's lost to both Hongun and Alicia recently. And at HSC3 he lost to Naniwa and Huk. Do you remember his semi-finals vs San? He basically won with two 4gates and one cannon rush and at DH invitational finals (vs Whitera) it was 3-2 and the games MC won was two 4 gates and a proxy gateway. Nowadays he seems to be struggling, might have figured it out now tho. What? How did 4gate go out of style? In every game he lost to HongUn, he lost AGAINST 4gates. You can't just attribute his PvP losses to "4gate going out of style" when some of his losses were to the 4gate. The thing is that before PvP was decided by who had the best 4gate and who controlled best. Now it's more up to mind games. MC didn't lose those games because he controlled bad but because he fell to some mind games. Didn't expect him to 4gate etc. Therefor MC's PvP isn't as strong as before. Nestea is so good at ZvZ, not because he has the best control (like MC) but because he's smartest and always succeed in his mind games (Nestea vs Losira finals).
All I was pointing out is that it doesn't make sense to say that 4gate going out of style is the reason why MC isn't doing as well anymore when MC himself lost to the 4gate in quite a few of his recent losses. You could rephrase yourself as saying "mindgames becoming more prevalent is why MC isn't doing as well anymore", but 4gate has definitely not gone out of style.
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On August 20 2011 06:39 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2011 06:31 Choboo wrote:On August 20 2011 06:27 Jinivus wrote:On August 20 2011 06:22 Choboo wrote:On August 20 2011 06:18 Jinivus wrote:On August 20 2011 06:14 Fenrisulf wrote:On August 20 2011 05:58 Sailincieri wrote:On August 20 2011 05:54 hugman wrote:
I don't think MaNa has a chance vs MC =/ I don't think of him as a micro player Mana have one of the best micro in Europe perhaps but MC have one of the best micro in Korea...if not THE best This. He wins PvZ purely on control and micro...failed dt opening into winning for MC Yeah but he is actually not that solid in PvP anymore (since 4gate went out of style). He's lost to both Hongun and Alicia recently. And at HSC3 he lost to Naniwa and Huk. Do you remember his semi-finals vs San? He basically won with two 4gates and one cannon rush and at DH invitational finals (vs Whitera) it was 3-2 and the games MC won was two 4 gates and a proxy gateway. Nowadays he seems to be struggling, might have figured it out now tho. 4 gate is still pretty much as good as ever and used alot. Attributing his losses to the 4 gate nerf or decline is pretty silly IMO. only Inca has a pvp record that is even close to his. I'm just saying that MC's recent PvP results are pretty bad. The only real win is vs Huk in the GSL but Huk just made some silly decisions in those games. I dunno tho, he's been in Korea and practicing for a while now so he has probably solved his PvP problems now. On August 20 2011 06:29 HolyArrow wrote:On August 20 2011 06:22 Choboo wrote:On August 20 2011 06:18 Jinivus wrote:On August 20 2011 06:14 Fenrisulf wrote:On August 20 2011 05:58 Sailincieri wrote:On August 20 2011 05:54 hugman wrote:
I don't think MaNa has a chance vs MC =/ I don't think of him as a micro player Mana have one of the best micro in Europe perhaps but MC have one of the best micro in Korea...if not THE best This. He wins PvZ purely on control and micro...failed dt opening into winning for MC Yeah but he is actually not that solid in PvP anymore (since 4gate went out of style). He's lost to both Hongun and Alicia recently. And at HSC3 he lost to Naniwa and Huk. Do you remember his semi-finals vs San? He basically won with two 4gates and one cannon rush and at DH invitational finals (vs Whitera) it was 3-2 and the games MC won was two 4 gates and a proxy gateway. Nowadays he seems to be struggling, might have figured it out now tho. What? How did 4gate go out of style? In every game he lost to HongUn, he lost AGAINST 4gates. You can't just attribute his PvP losses to "4gate going out of style" when some of his losses were to the 4gate. The thing is that before PvP was decided by who had the best 4gate and who controlled best. Now it's more up to mind games. MC didn't lose those games because he controlled bad but because he fell to some mind games. Didn't expect him to 4gate etc. Therefor MC's PvP isn't as strong as before. Nestea is so good at ZvZ, not because he has the best control (like MC) but because he's smartest and always succeed in his mind games (Nestea vs Losira finals). All I was pointing out is that it doesn't make sense to say that 4gate going out of style is the reason why MC isn't doing as well anymore when MC himself lost to the 4gate in quite a few of his recent losses. You could rephrase yourself as saying "mindgames becoming more prevalent is why MC isn't doing as well anymore", but 4gate has definitely not gone out of style.
It's not a good build if your opponent knows what you're doing. The only reason MC lost to it was because he didn't expect it which wasn't the case when 4gate was the only thing people used in PvP.
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United States9232 Posts
On August 20 2011 06:27 Jinivus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2011 06:22 Choboo wrote:On August 20 2011 06:18 Jinivus wrote:On August 20 2011 06:14 Fenrisulf wrote:On August 20 2011 05:58 Sailincieri wrote:On August 20 2011 05:54 hugman wrote:
I don't think MaNa has a chance vs MC =/ I don't think of him as a micro player Mana have one of the best micro in Europe perhaps but MC have one of the best micro in Korea...if not THE best This. He wins PvZ purely on control and micro...failed dt opening into winning for MC Yeah but he is actually not that solid in PvP anymore (since 4gate went out of style). He's lost to both Hongun and Alicia recently. And at HSC3 he lost to Naniwa and Huk. Do you remember his semi-finals vs San? He basically won with two 4gates and one cannon rush and at DH invitational finals (vs Whitera) it was 3-2 and the games MC won was two 4 gates and a proxy gateway. Nowadays he seems to be struggling, might have figured it out now tho. 4 gate is still pretty much as good as ever and used alot. Attributing his losses to the 4 gate nerf or decline is pretty silly IMO. only Inca has a pvp record that is even close to his.
This isn't even remotely true...
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On August 20 2011 06:44 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2011 06:27 Jinivus wrote:On August 20 2011 06:22 Choboo wrote:On August 20 2011 06:18 Jinivus wrote:On August 20 2011 06:14 Fenrisulf wrote:On August 20 2011 05:58 Sailincieri wrote:On August 20 2011 05:54 hugman wrote:
I don't think MaNa has a chance vs MC =/ I don't think of him as a micro player Mana have one of the best micro in Europe perhaps but MC have one of the best micro in Korea...if not THE best This. He wins PvZ purely on control and micro...failed dt opening into winning for MC Yeah but he is actually not that solid in PvP anymore (since 4gate went out of style). He's lost to both Hongun and Alicia recently. And at HSC3 he lost to Naniwa and Huk. Do you remember his semi-finals vs San? He basically won with two 4gates and one cannon rush and at DH invitational finals (vs Whitera) it was 3-2 and the games MC won was two 4 gates and a proxy gateway. Nowadays he seems to be struggling, might have figured it out now tho. 4 gate is still pretty much as good as ever and used alot. Attributing his losses to the 4 gate nerf or decline is pretty silly IMO. only Inca has a pvp record that is even close to his. This isn't even remotely true...
It isn't even remotely true that what i said isn't true...
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MC should beat MaNa handily - he has more experience, is ahead in strategic development due to being Korean, and has the psychological advantage - MaNa said he was afraid of playing MC. That said, MaNa is as solid defensively in his PvP as in his other matchups, so if MC just tries to take the easy win with extreme aggression, he might be in for a rude awakening.
PuMa should realistically beat Socke in a completely straight-up game, but if he tries some early timing push, all-in, or risky harassment, and Socke defends it, then he may find himself in the same spot he found himself in against MaNa. Socke's comfort zone lies in in the lategame, with 30 Warpgates, 5 bases, and a maxed army spread across three screens. I'm curious to see how PuMa plays if a game gets to that stage, since he's not exactly known for superior lategame management. The game he lost on Terminus to MC during the NASL finals is a good example of him squandering a huge lead due to subpar decision making.
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3-1, 3-1 for MC and Puma are my predicts.
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i have a feeling MC is going to take it
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i will be happy if only one foreigner will advance, hoping for both. at least Socke ofc as i am german.
but hey, may the better player win tomorrow. just show us great games. i would be fine with two epic 3:2's for the koreans as well
so i go bold:
mc:mana 3:1
puma:socke 2:3
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On August 20 2011 05:26 PeZuY wrote:
I heard that protoss is UP at the moment:o back to the topic. GoGo Socke!
Check out GSL; I wouldn't draw too many conclusions from a 16 player invitational where Koreans are 2 of the top 4 and have taken out the best Z (Nerchio).
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On August 20 2011 05:43 Choboo wrote:Bold predictions ^_^
lol, not exactly bold...
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I want socke to win but a p v p finals would suck =/
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On August 20 2011 06:58 icarly wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2011 05:43 Choboo wrote:On August 20 2011 05:41 FuTon wrote:
MC 3-0 Mana
Puma 3-0 Socke
Bold predictions ^_^ lol, not exactly bold...
MC 3-0 Mana
Puma 3-0 Socke
Now they're bold :p
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I am so hoping for PuMa to win this.
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Hey, anybody know the answer to this question: I payed for the premium membership when I was logged into my twitch/justin.tv account. It said I needed premium to have a look at the VOD:s, but if I want to check them out on esl.tv I have to log in with my regular ESL account (on which I did not buy a premium pass).
Isn't there a way to combine these two accounts so I can actually have a look at the VOD:s? Any solution is of course acceptable
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No offense to mana and socke, but I'd LOVE a puma vs MC finals rematch, that'd be the sickest
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Mana beat Huk in a PvP in a recent tournament I think Assembly. So his PvP must be pretty damn good... Must say I am suprised Puma beat Nerchio, maybe his nerves got to him or something.
Socke is obviously an underdog but he is actually quite underrated and I think he will put up a good fight.
Mana vs MC... MC is just too good
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Really hope Mana can manage to win to see his amazing PvT vs Puma
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EPT
