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On August 21 2011 00:23 Telcontar wrote: What's wrong with KR vs KR as long it promises the best Starcraft possible? Would you not tune into Barca vs Real Madrid just because it's Spain vs Spain? or MVP vs Nestea? or Flash vs Jaedong? Maybe you guys are frustrated that the non-koreans flopped when push came to shove, but that shouldn't really deter you from tuning into a final with 2 worthy players.
Oh well, it's only your loss if you don't watch it.
I watch Barca vs Real but I don't watch Real vs Villareal, and that match would better describe the current situation.
3 Koreans came (Select doesn't count) to the event, 2 of them are in the finals.
MC is accomplished, but Puma isn't, so Barca vs Real analogy doesn't relate.
If MVP and Nestea came, and made the finals, I bet we wouldn't see as many people complaining about KvK finals. Sure you can argue that Puma is just as good but unaccomplished because of lack of luck, but you know yourself accomplishments have their weight in situations like this.
Puma isn't accompolished? I'll admit he hasn't really shown us what he can do in the GSL, but you should remember how frigging hard it is to just qualify for Code A. Even players like MMA, DRG, and Bomber had a very difficult time getting into the GSL proper, and we all knew how beastly they were. Also, PUMA FRIGGING WON THE FIRST NASL. How the fuck is that not a huge accomplishment? He rampaged through the open tournament, and stormed through the LAN finals to win a very closely contested grand finals vs MC, who was and still is, considered the best protoss in the world. HOW THE FUCK IS THAT NOT AN ACCOMPLISHMENT? You either have a short memory, or you're purposefully short-selling Puma just to promote your argument.
Being accomplished means a lot more than one win. I'm pretty sure.
Being a decent BW pro is already a big accomplishment. MC can't even keep his head above water in BW league.
Broodwar achievements have no relevance here. At all. Be more subtle with your BW elitism.
It is relevent. And what's the point of being subtle on that?
Actually no it's completely irrelevant since they are completely different games. It's like saying Grubby has more accomplishments in WC3 so obviously he's accomplished than thorzain in sc2.
WC3 and SC2 are complete different games. SC and SC2 are not completely different games, SC2 is sequel of SC, in case you didn't notice.
The three best sc2 players were horrible in sc1. Obviously there isn't a direct skill transfer and your BW achievements really say nothing about how well you're gonna do in SC2.
this is complete bullshit. MVP was very solid and MC was very well regarded but just didn't live up to his team's expectations of him obviously. why would they keep putting him out there to lose and you could argue nestea was bad but go read his interview. they (his bw team) asked him if he wanted to do 2v2 and he says he still regrets accepting. his 1v1 skills deteriorated as a result and then 2v2 was cut from proleague and as a result the team had no more use for him so he retired
On August 21 2011 00:23 Telcontar wrote: What's wrong with KR vs KR as long it promises the best Starcraft possible? Would you not tune into Barca vs Real Madrid just because it's Spain vs Spain? or MVP vs Nestea? or Flash vs Jaedong? Maybe you guys are frustrated that the non-koreans flopped when push came to shove, but that shouldn't really deter you from tuning into a final with 2 worthy players.
Oh well, it's only your loss if you don't watch it.
I watch Barca vs Real but I don't watch Real vs Villareal, and that match would better describe the current situation.
3 Koreans came (Select doesn't count) to the event, 2 of them are in the finals.
MC is accomplished, but Puma isn't, so Barca vs Real analogy doesn't relate.
If MVP and Nestea came, and made the finals, I bet we wouldn't see as many people complaining about KvK finals. Sure you can argue that Puma is just as good but unaccomplished because of lack of luck, but you know yourself accomplishments have their weight in situations like this.
Puma isn't accompolished? I'll admit he hasn't really shown us what he can do in the GSL, but you should remember how frigging hard it is to just qualify for Code A. Even players like MMA, DRG, and Bomber had a very difficult time getting into the GSL proper, and we all knew how beastly they were. Also, PUMA FRIGGING WON THE FIRST NASL. How the fuck is that not a huge accomplishment? He rampaged through the open tournament, and stormed through the LAN finals to win a very closely contested grand finals vs MC, who was and still is, considered the best protoss in the world. HOW THE FUCK IS THAT NOT AN ACCOMPLISHMENT? You either have a short memory, or you're purposefully short-selling Puma just to promote your argument.
Being accomplished means a lot more than one win. I'm pretty sure.
Being a decent BW pro is already a big accomplishment. MC can't even keep his head above water in BW league.
Broodwar achievements have no relevance here. At all. Be more subtle with your BW elitism.
It is relevent. And what's the point of being subtle on that?
Actually no it's completely irrelevant since they are completely different games. It's like saying Grubby has more accomplishments in WC3 so obviously he's accomplished than thorzain in sc2.
WC3 and SC2 are complete different games. SC and SC2 are not completely different games, SC2 is sequel of SC, in case you didn't notice.
The three best sc2 players were horrible in sc1. Obviously there isn't a direct skill transfer and your BW achievements really say nothing about how well you're gonna do in SC2.
BW to SC2 isn't exactly like Basketball to Baseball (think Michael Jordan).
It's more like NBA ball to streetball. MJ's achievements don't transfer, clearly. But does it mean nothing? You don't think he would beast it up at Rucker Park if given a chance (and a time machine)?
For reference: Durant's recent 66 point game.
Simply put, BW skill evinces a degree of competence that should be noted, despite a change of game.
Thus, BW matters; thus, Puma is accomplished; thus, Barca v Real analogy applies; thus KR v KR final is must-watch!
On August 21 2011 02:10 revoN wrote: Just watched the replays and I must say wow those games weren't even close. Yet another tournament swept by a Korean.
Also I don't get why some people are downplaying Puma's accomplishments. They may not be as impressive as MC's but still in the terms of skill he's leagues ahead of the best foreigners so the finals should be pretty entertaining. And that's what matters most right? Stop being butthurt that your favourite player got knocked out and just enjoy the game.
Not exactly surprising. I thought one of them might take a game off their korean opponents, but alas no.
On August 21 2011 01:06 Telcontar wrote: [quote] Puma isn't accompolished? I'll admit he hasn't really shown us what he can do in the GSL, but you should remember how frigging hard it is to just qualify for Code A. Even players like MMA, DRG, and Bomber had a very difficult time getting into the GSL proper, and we all knew how beastly they were. Also, PUMA FRIGGING WON THE FIRST NASL. How the fuck is that not a huge accomplishment? He rampaged through the open tournament, and stormed through the LAN finals to win a very closely contested grand finals vs MC, who was and still is, considered the best protoss in the world. HOW THE FUCK IS THAT NOT AN ACCOMPLISHMENT? You either have a short memory, or you're purposefully short-selling Puma just to promote your argument.
Being accomplished means a lot more than one win. I'm pretty sure.
Being a decent BW pro is already a big accomplishment. MC can't even keep his head above water in BW league.
Broodwar achievements have no relevance here. At all. Be more subtle with your BW elitism.
It is relevent. And what's the point of being subtle on that?
Actually no it's completely irrelevant since they are completely different games. It's like saying Grubby has more accomplishments in WC3 so obviously he's accomplished than thorzain in sc2.
WC3 and SC2 are complete different games. SC and SC2 are not completely different games, SC2 is sequel of SC, in case you didn't notice.
The three best sc2 players were horrible in sc1. Obviously there isn't a direct skill transfer and you're BW achievements really say nothing about how well you're gonna do in SC2.
MVP and Nestea are not horrible, they are pretty decent. MVP sometimes play ACE match for his team. Nestea is very good 2v2 player. Only MC sucks. And most players better than MVP never came to SC2. In BW, July, boxer, and NADA are all worse than MVP in 2010.
34 percent winrate is pretty horrible. 2v2 surely doesn't have any relevance here. Sure maybe having some better broodwar experience could help but theres nothing to suggest it's really that much of a factor.
34 percent is not horrible. You do know even boxer (Bonjwa) is only 56 percent. And MVP is 39 percent, not 34. Idra never even played one game in those 3 leagues. If he played, he will get maybe around 10 percent range.
On August 21 2011 02:34 iamke55 wrote: All of these excuses for why MC, Nestea, and MVP sucked at BW remind of people saying "I'm high gold but I've taken games off of diamonds!"
Whats your definition of "sucks at BW?" Did idra suck?
average B teamer: A+ on iccup, easily capable of getting #1 average time spent on B team before making any televised debuts: 1 full year of dedicated practice
just getting onto the A team is an accomplishment. I don't downplay a-teamers just like i don't downplay how good idra was
Being accomplished means a lot more than one win. I'm pretty sure.
Being a decent BW pro is already a big accomplishment. MC can't even keep his head above water in BW league.
Broodwar achievements have no relevance here. At all. Be more subtle with your BW elitism.
It is relevent. And what's the point of being subtle on that?
Actually no it's completely irrelevant since they are completely different games. It's like saying Grubby has more accomplishments in WC3 so obviously he's accomplished than thorzain in sc2.
WC3 and SC2 are complete different games. SC and SC2 are not completely different games, SC2 is sequel of SC, in case you didn't notice.
The three best sc2 players were horrible in sc1. Obviously there isn't a direct skill transfer and you're BW achievements really say nothing about how well you're gonna do in SC2.
MVP and Nestea are not horrible, they are pretty decent. MVP sometimes play ACE match for his team. Nestea is very good 2v2 player. Only MC sucks. And most players better than MVP never came to SC2. In BW, July, boxer, and NADA are all worse than MVP in 2010.
34 percent winrate is pretty horrible. 2v2 surely doesn't have any relevance here. Sure maybe having some better broodwar experience could help but theres nothing to suggest it's really that much of a factor.
34 percent is not horrible. You do know even boxer (Bonjwa) is only 56 percent. And MVP is 39 percent, not 34. Idra never even played one game in those 3 leagues. If he played, he will get maybe around 10 percent range.
56 lifetime... most bonjwa's were around 70% at the time of their dominance. Don't twist stats!
Yes a MC vs Puma rematch! Idk why you guys are upset, I'd rather watch a close PvT with the best players than MC/Puma roll over the foreigners(possible mirror matchup). Mc fighting!
EPT
