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Please keep the following things out of this topic:
-Caster/Stream/player bashing;
-Imbalance/race whine;
-LoL vs the world arguments;
-'Omfg cant believe people aren't watching SPL finals' comments;
-any other assorted offtopic negativism and arguments.
Enjoy this free multiday/multigame event that has been provided to you. Share your enthusiasm for the games!
Feel free to shoot me a PM or query me on IRC for any questions or comments. Have fun! ~Nyovne |
On August 21 2011 02:04 Jinivus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 02:01 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:On August 21 2011 01:58 Jinivus wrote:On August 21 2011 01:54 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:On August 21 2011 01:52 Jinivus wrote:On August 21 2011 01:46 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:On August 21 2011 01:13 justinpal wrote:On August 21 2011 01:06 Telcontar wrote:On August 21 2011 00:36 niteReloaded wrote:On August 21 2011 00:23 Telcontar wrote:
What's wrong with KR vs KR as long it promises the best Starcraft possible? Would you not tune into Barca vs Real Madrid just because it's Spain vs Spain? or MVP vs Nestea? or Flash vs Jaedong? Maybe you guys are frustrated that the non-koreans flopped when push came to shove, but that shouldn't really deter you from tuning into a final with 2 worthy players.
Oh well, it's only your loss if you don't watch it. I watch Barca vs Real but I don't watch Real vs Villareal, and that match would better describe the current situation. 3 Koreans came (Select doesn't count) to the event, 2 of them are in the finals. MC is accomplished, but Puma isn't, so Barca vs Real analogy doesn't relate. If MVP and Nestea came, and made the finals, I bet we wouldn't see as many people complaining about KvK finals. Sure you can argue that Puma is just as good but unaccomplished because of lack of luck, but you know yourself accomplishments have their weight in situations like this. Puma isn't accompolished? I'll admit he hasn't really shown us what he can do in the GSL, but you should remember how frigging hard it is to just qualify for Code A. Even players like MMA, DRG, and Bomber had a very difficult time getting into the GSL proper, and we all knew how beastly they were. Also, PUMA FRIGGING WON THE FIRST NASL. How the fuck is that not a huge accomplishment? He rampaged through the open tournament, and stormed through the LAN finals to win a very closely contested grand finals vs MC, who was and still is, considered the best protoss in the world. HOW THE FUCK IS THAT NOT AN ACCOMPLISHMENT? You either have a short memory, or you're purposefully short-selling Puma just to promote your argument. Being accomplished means a lot more than one win. I'm pretty sure. Being a decent BW pro is already a big accomplishment. MC can't even keep his head above water in BW league. Broodwar achievements have no relevance here. At all. Be more subtle with your BW elitism. It is relevent. And what's the point of being subtle on that? Actually no it's completely irrelevant since they are completely different games. It's like saying Grubby has more accomplishments in WC3 so obviously he's accomplished than thorzain in sc2. WC3 and SC2 are complete different games. SC and SC2 are not completely different games, SC2 is sequel of SC, in case you didn't notice. The three best sc2 players were horrible in sc1. Obviously there isn't a direct skill transfer and your BW achievements really say nothing about how well you're gonna do in SC2.
The three best sc2 players are 3 of the best bw players who have actually switched over though...Yeah they weren't very good in bw but they were better than any of the other shitty bw players who switched.
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On August 21 2011 05:50 redFF wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 02:04 Jinivus wrote:On August 21 2011 02:01 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:On August 21 2011 01:58 Jinivus wrote:On August 21 2011 01:54 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:On August 21 2011 01:52 Jinivus wrote:On August 21 2011 01:46 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:On August 21 2011 01:13 justinpal wrote:On August 21 2011 01:06 Telcontar wrote:On August 21 2011 00:36 niteReloaded wrote:
[quote]
I watch Barca vs Real but I don't watch Real vs Villareal, and that match would better describe the current situation.
3 Koreans came (Select doesn't count) to the event, 2 of them are in the finals.
MC is accomplished, but Puma isn't, so Barca vs Real analogy doesn't relate.
If MVP and Nestea came, and made the finals, I bet we wouldn't see as many people complaining about KvK finals. Sure you can argue that Puma is just as good but unaccomplished because of lack of luck, but you know yourself accomplishments have their weight in situations like this. Puma isn't accompolished? I'll admit he hasn't really shown us what he can do in the GSL, but you should remember how frigging hard it is to just qualify for Code A. Even players like MMA, DRG, and Bomber had a very difficult time getting into the GSL proper, and we all knew how beastly they were. Also, PUMA FRIGGING WON THE FIRST NASL. How the fuck is that not a huge accomplishment? He rampaged through the open tournament, and stormed through the LAN finals to win a very closely contested grand finals vs MC, who was and still is, considered the best protoss in the world. HOW THE FUCK IS THAT NOT AN ACCOMPLISHMENT? You either have a short memory, or you're purposefully short-selling Puma just to promote your argument. Being accomplished means a lot more than one win. I'm pretty sure. Being a decent BW pro is already a big accomplishment. MC can't even keep his head above water in BW league. Broodwar achievements have no relevance here. At all. Be more subtle with your BW elitism. It is relevent. And what's the point of being subtle on that? Actually no it's completely irrelevant since they are completely different games. It's like saying Grubby has more accomplishments in WC3 so obviously he's accomplished than thorzain in sc2. WC3 and SC2 are complete different games. SC and SC2 are not completely different games, SC2 is sequel of SC, in case you didn't notice. The three best sc2 players were horrible in sc1. Obviously there isn't a direct skill transfer and your BW achievements really say nothing about how well you're gonna do in SC2. The three best sc2 players are 3 of the best bw players who have actually switched over though...Yeah they weren't very good in bw but they were better than any of the other shitty bw players who switched.
Better than Boxer, Nada, or July? .....No.....just no.
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On August 21 2011 06:05 LeopoldStotch wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 05:50 redFF wrote:On August 21 2011 02:04 Jinivus wrote:On August 21 2011 02:01 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:On August 21 2011 01:58 Jinivus wrote:On August 21 2011 01:54 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:On August 21 2011 01:52 Jinivus wrote:On August 21 2011 01:46 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:On August 21 2011 01:13 justinpal wrote:On August 21 2011 01:06 Telcontar wrote:
[quote]
Puma isn't accompolished? I'll admit he hasn't really shown us what he can do in the GSL, but you should remember how frigging hard it is to just qualify for Code A. Even players like MMA, DRG, and Bomber had a very difficult time getting into the GSL proper, and we all knew how beastly they were. Also, PUMA FRIGGING WON THE FIRST NASL. How the fuck is that not a huge accomplishment? He rampaged through the open tournament, and stormed through the LAN finals to win a very closely contested grand finals vs MC, who was and still is, considered the best protoss in the world. HOW THE FUCK IS THAT NOT AN ACCOMPLISHMENT? You either have a short memory, or you're purposefully short-selling Puma just to promote your argument. Being accomplished means a lot more than one win. I'm pretty sure. Being a decent BW pro is already a big accomplishment. MC can't even keep his head above water in BW league. Broodwar achievements have no relevance here. At all. Be more subtle with your BW elitism. It is relevent. And what's the point of being subtle on that? Actually no it's completely irrelevant since they are completely different games. It's like saying Grubby has more accomplishments in WC3 so obviously he's accomplished than thorzain in sc2. WC3 and SC2 are complete different games. SC and SC2 are not completely different games, SC2 is sequel of SC, in case you didn't notice. The three best sc2 players were horrible in sc1. Obviously there isn't a direct skill transfer and your BW achievements really say nothing about how well you're gonna do in SC2. The three best sc2 players are 3 of the best bw players who have actually switched over though...Yeah they weren't very good in bw but they were better than any of the other shitty bw players who switched. Better than Boxer, Nada, or July? .....No.....just no.
In 2009-2010 . . . Boxer, Nada, and July were far from their peak, had zero prospects in BW individual leagues, and barely made appearances in proleague.
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On August 21 2011 06:05 LeopoldStotch wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 05:50 redFF wrote:On August 21 2011 02:04 Jinivus wrote:On August 21 2011 02:01 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:On August 21 2011 01:58 Jinivus wrote:On August 21 2011 01:54 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:On August 21 2011 01:52 Jinivus wrote:On August 21 2011 01:46 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:On August 21 2011 01:13 justinpal wrote:On August 21 2011 01:06 Telcontar wrote:
[quote]
Puma isn't accompolished? I'll admit he hasn't really shown us what he can do in the GSL, but you should remember how frigging hard it is to just qualify for Code A. Even players like MMA, DRG, and Bomber had a very difficult time getting into the GSL proper, and we all knew how beastly they were. Also, PUMA FRIGGING WON THE FIRST NASL. How the fuck is that not a huge accomplishment? He rampaged through the open tournament, and stormed through the LAN finals to win a very closely contested grand finals vs MC, who was and still is, considered the best protoss in the world. HOW THE FUCK IS THAT NOT AN ACCOMPLISHMENT? You either have a short memory, or you're purposefully short-selling Puma just to promote your argument. Being accomplished means a lot more than one win. I'm pretty sure. Being a decent BW pro is already a big accomplishment. MC can't even keep his head above water in BW league. Broodwar achievements have no relevance here. At all. Be more subtle with your BW elitism. It is relevent. And what's the point of being subtle on that? Actually no it's completely irrelevant since they are completely different games. It's like saying Grubby has more accomplishments in WC3 so obviously he's accomplished than thorzain in sc2. WC3 and SC2 are complete different games. SC and SC2 are not completely different games, SC2 is sequel of SC, in case you didn't notice. The three best sc2 players were horrible in sc1. Obviously there isn't a direct skill transfer and your BW achievements really say nothing about how well you're gonna do in SC2. The three best sc2 players are 3 of the best bw players who have actually switched over though...Yeah they weren't very good in bw but they were better than any of the other shitty bw players who switched. Better than Boxer, Nada, or July? .....No.....just no.
People keep bringing this up, but those guys were far past their peak when they switched over. They were not better than guys like MVP and MC at the time of switch.
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I was there today and enjoyed the good games. What I did not enjoy was the following. I'm not sure if the incident has been mentioned before.
If you watched the stream you probably saw how enthusiastically Socke was greeted by the fans. The crowd got heated up by Take even more.
Don't get me wrong, while I wouldn't call myself a fan I have nothing against Socke, I enjoyed quite a few games of him. But as an anti-nationalist I don't see why I should root for him because of where he was born.
When Puma entered the stage there were quite a few "boo"-shouters. I don't know if they did it because of the EG "scandal", because he is Korean or simply because he was Sockes opponent and they would have done it against anyone else.
When I cheered for Puma after good actions by him, showcasing his superior play, I in fact earned angry reactions. Just because I was for the wrong player. Again, this might have been anti-EG, it might have been anti-Socke's opponent, but the point is, it doesn't really matter.
I don't know if the following was on the stream:
In the commercial break between the second and third match Take entered the stage to announce that there had been attempts of glaring Puma with a laser pointer while the second match was going on. Take said that if they were continued they would send everyone away and let the players end the series backstage to assure the matches could be played under fair conditions. They actually had an IEM guy stand in front of Puma in the third match to prevent further incidents.
Now, while I am a political person, I usually try to not let that interfere with my hobby. If people have to root for a player because of his home country I let them have their fun, as long as they don't hop on the "No Koreans at MLG!"-bandwagon or shit like that. But today a line was crossed for me when I experienced hostility because I rooted for the "wrong" player. The laser pointer act might have been executed by a stupid troll, but it might as well have been a overzealous Socke fan.
My point is: I am disgusted by even the possibility of this being a trend in the esports community. What if that weren't just a few stupid individuals? I hope that every esports fan who witnesses behavious similar to what I described in this post distances him- or herself from it and feels ashamed if people not related to esports see them as representatives of our hobby and scene. Please do everything to keep esports positive, international and open to everybody, and first of all: keep it revolving around the fun!
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On August 21 2011 06:38 Sein wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 06:05 LeopoldStotch wrote:On August 21 2011 05:50 redFF wrote:On August 21 2011 02:04 Jinivus wrote:On August 21 2011 02:01 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:On August 21 2011 01:58 Jinivus wrote:On August 21 2011 01:54 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:On August 21 2011 01:52 Jinivus wrote:On August 21 2011 01:46 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:On August 21 2011 01:13 justinpal wrote:
[quote]
Being accomplished means a lot more than one win. I'm pretty sure.
Being a decent BW pro is already a big accomplishment. MC can't even keep his head above water in BW league. Broodwar achievements have no relevance here. At all. Be more subtle with your BW elitism. It is relevent. And what's the point of being subtle on that? Actually no it's completely irrelevant since they are completely different games. It's like saying Grubby has more accomplishments in WC3 so obviously he's accomplished than thorzain in sc2. WC3 and SC2 are complete different games. SC and SC2 are not completely different games, SC2 is sequel of SC, in case you didn't notice. The three best sc2 players were horrible in sc1. Obviously there isn't a direct skill transfer and your BW achievements really say nothing about how well you're gonna do in SC2. The three best sc2 players are 3 of the best bw players who have actually switched over though...Yeah they weren't very good in bw but they were better than any of the other shitty bw players who switched. Better than Boxer, Nada, or July? .....No.....just no. People keep bringing this up, but those guys were far past their peak when they switched over. They were not better than guys like MVP and MC at the time of switch.
This is absolutely true, only if someone like flash transfers over and really puts his heart to it, can we start to conjecture the things that have been said.
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On August 21 2011 01:06 Telcontar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 00:36 niteReloaded wrote:On August 21 2011 00:23 Telcontar wrote:
What's wrong with KR vs KR as long it promises the best Starcraft possible? Would you not tune into Barca vs Real Madrid just because it's Spain vs Spain? or MVP vs Nestea? or Flash vs Jaedong? Maybe you guys are frustrated that the non-koreans flopped when push came to shove, but that shouldn't really deter you from tuning into a final with 2 worthy players.
Oh well, it's only your loss if you don't watch it. I watch Barca vs Real but I don't watch Real vs Villareal, and that match would better describe the current situation. 3 Koreans came (Select doesn't count) to the event, 2 of them are in the finals. MC is accomplished, but Puma isn't, so Barca vs Real analogy doesn't relate. If MVP and Nestea came, and made the finals, I bet we wouldn't see as many people complaining about KvK finals. Sure you can argue that Puma is just as good but unaccomplished because of lack of luck, but you know yourself accomplishments have their weight in situations like this. Puma isn't accompolished? I'll admit he hasn't really shown us what he can do in the GSL, but you should remember how frigging hard it is to just qualify for Code A. Even players like MMA, DRG, and Bomber had a very difficult time getting into the GSL proper, and we all knew how beastly they were. Also, PUMA FRIGGING WON THE FIRST NASL. How the fuck is that not a huge accomplishment? He rampaged through the open tournament, and stormed through the LAN finals to win a very closely contested grand finals vs MC, who was and still is, considered the best protoss in the world. HOW THE FUCK IS THAT NOT AN ACCOMPLISHMENT? You either have a short memory, or you're purposefully short-selling Puma just to promote your argument.
Winning the GSL is harder than winning the NASL.
And even the people who won the GSL once, I don't count as especially accomplished.
In my argument, I'm comparing Puma with people who've won the GSL multiple times.
He's not on the same level, at least accomplishment wise. Is that not the truth?
I'm not talking about skills.
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On August 21 2011 07:16 niteReloaded wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 01:06 Telcontar wrote:On August 21 2011 00:36 niteReloaded wrote:On August 21 2011 00:23 Telcontar wrote:
What's wrong with KR vs KR as long it promises the best Starcraft possible? Would you not tune into Barca vs Real Madrid just because it's Spain vs Spain? or MVP vs Nestea? or Flash vs Jaedong? Maybe you guys are frustrated that the non-koreans flopped when push came to shove, but that shouldn't really deter you from tuning into a final with 2 worthy players.
Oh well, it's only your loss if you don't watch it. I watch Barca vs Real but I don't watch Real vs Villareal, and that match would better describe the current situation. 3 Koreans came (Select doesn't count) to the event, 2 of them are in the finals. MC is accomplished, but Puma isn't, so Barca vs Real analogy doesn't relate. If MVP and Nestea came, and made the finals, I bet we wouldn't see as many people complaining about KvK finals. Sure you can argue that Puma is just as good but unaccomplished because of lack of luck, but you know yourself accomplishments have their weight in situations like this. Puma isn't accompolished? I'll admit he hasn't really shown us what he can do in the GSL, but you should remember how frigging hard it is to just qualify for Code A. Even players like MMA, DRG, and Bomber had a very difficult time getting into the GSL proper, and we all knew how beastly they were. Also, PUMA FRIGGING WON THE FIRST NASL. How the fuck is that not a huge accomplishment? He rampaged through the open tournament, and stormed through the LAN finals to win a very closely contested grand finals vs MC, who was and still is, considered the best protoss in the world. HOW THE FUCK IS THAT NOT AN ACCOMPLISHMENT? You either have a short memory, or you're purposefully short-selling Puma just to promote your argument. Winning the GSL is harder than winning the NASL. And even the people who won the GSL once, I don't count as especially accomplished. In my argument, I'm comparing Puma with people who've won the GSL multiple times. He's not on the same level, at least accomplishment wise. Is that not the truth? I'm not talking about skills.
He won the nasl open bracket which was full of code S koreans and the nasl lan finals which also had code s koreans(2 really amazing accomplishments ).
Also remember puma came very late to sc2, while mc was the first bw pro to announce his switch so he had more time to prepare make those accomplishments.
In the end i agree, MC is more accomplished
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On August 21 2011 06:39 chocopaw wrote:
I was there today and enjoyed the good games. What I did not enjoy was the following. I'm not sure if the incident has been mentioned before.
If you watched the stream you probably saw how enthusiastically Socke was greeted by the fans. The crowd got heated up by Take even more.
Don't get me wrong, while I wouldn't call myself a fan I have nothing against Socke, I enjoyed quite a few games of him. But as an anti-nationalist I don't see why I should root for him because of where he was born.
When Puma entered the stage there were quite a few "boo"-shouters. I don't know if they did it because of the EG "scandal", because he is Korean or simply because he was Sockes opponent and they would have done it against anyone else.
When I cheered for Puma after good actions by him, showcasing his superior play, I in fact earned angry reactions. Just because I was for the wrong player. Again, this might have been anti-EG, it might have been anti-Socke's opponent, but the point is, it doesn't really matter.
I don't know if the following was on the stream:
In the commercial break between the second and third match Take entered the stage to announce that there had been attempts of glaring Puma with a laser pointer while the second match was going on. Take said that if they were continued they would send everyone away and let the players end the series backstage to assure the matches could be played under fair conditions. They actually had an IEM guy stand in front of Puma in the third match to prevent further incidents.
Now, while I am a political person, I usually try to not let that interfere with my hobby. If people have to root for a player because of his home country I let them have their fun, as long as they don't hop on the "No Koreans at MLG!"-bandwagon or shit like that. But today a line was crossed for me when I experienced hostility because I rooted for the "wrong" player. The laser pointer act might have been executed by a stupid troll, but it might as well have been a overzealous Socke fan.
My point is: I am disgusted by even the possibility of this being a trend in the esports community. What if that weren't just a few stupid individuals? I hope that every esports fan who witnesses behavious similar to what I described in this post distances him- or herself from it and feels ashamed if people not related to esports see them as representatives of our hobby and scene. Please do everything to keep esports positive, international and open to everybody, and first of all: keep it revolving around the fun!
If that's true I am fuckin pissed right now. I would think that a nation that went through the horrors of nazism would be a little more sensitive about racial discrimination.
User was warned for this post
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
On August 21 2011 07:16 niteReloaded wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 01:06 Telcontar wrote:On August 21 2011 00:36 niteReloaded wrote:On August 21 2011 00:23 Telcontar wrote:
What's wrong with KR vs KR as long it promises the best Starcraft possible? Would you not tune into Barca vs Real Madrid just because it's Spain vs Spain? or MVP vs Nestea? or Flash vs Jaedong? Maybe you guys are frustrated that the non-koreans flopped when push came to shove, but that shouldn't really deter you from tuning into a final with 2 worthy players.
Oh well, it's only your loss if you don't watch it. I watch Barca vs Real but I don't watch Real vs Villareal, and that match would better describe the current situation. 3 Koreans came (Select doesn't count) to the event, 2 of them are in the finals. MC is accomplished, but Puma isn't, so Barca vs Real analogy doesn't relate. If MVP and Nestea came, and made the finals, I bet we wouldn't see as many people complaining about KvK finals. Sure you can argue that Puma is just as good but unaccomplished because of lack of luck, but you know yourself accomplishments have their weight in situations like this. Puma isn't accompolished? I'll admit he hasn't really shown us what he can do in the GSL, but you should remember how frigging hard it is to just qualify for Code A. Even players like MMA, DRG, and Bomber had a very difficult time getting into the GSL proper, and we all knew how beastly they were. Also, PUMA FRIGGING WON THE FIRST NASL. How the fuck is that not a huge accomplishment? He rampaged through the open tournament, and stormed through the LAN finals to win a very closely contested grand finals vs MC, who was and still is, considered the best protoss in the world. HOW THE FUCK IS THAT NOT AN ACCOMPLISHMENT? You either have a short memory, or you're purposefully short-selling Puma just to promote your argument. Winning the GSL is harder than winning the NASL. And even the people who won the GSL once, I don't count as especially accomplished. In my argument, I'm comparing Puma with people who've won the GSL multiple times. He's not on the same level, at least accomplishment wise. Is that not the truth? I'm not talking about skills.
If you were directly comparing MC's achievements in SC2 with Puma's, you should've said the latter was LESS accomplished than the former, not "MC is accomplished, but Puma isn't". You can understand why I took that to mean you thought he wasn't accomplished at all.
Secondly, why are you directly comparing the two, when all I said was we have 2 worthy finalists who will show us awesome starcraft? Were you trying to dismantle my Barca vs Real analogy? MC vs Puma is certainly not a mismatch like Barca vs Villareal is. Both have already shown us once that both are very close in terms of their abilities in SC2, and it isn't so far-fetched to think it'll be a close affair once again. Also, it's not like Barca and Real are evenly matched in terms of recent accomplishments. Barca has won a shit ton of trophies, and almost always comes out ahead in their head-to-head meetings. Even so, we know every encounter between them is going to be fiercely competitive, closely contested, and display some of the best football in the world. That was the point I was driving home.
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On August 21 2011 10:10 nokz88 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 06:39 chocopaw wrote:
I was there today and enjoyed the good games. What I did not enjoy was the following. I'm not sure if the incident has been mentioned before.
If you watched the stream you probably saw how enthusiastically Socke was greeted by the fans. The crowd got heated up by Take even more.
Don't get me wrong, while I wouldn't call myself a fan I have nothing against Socke, I enjoyed quite a few games of him. But as an anti-nationalist I don't see why I should root for him because of where he was born.
When Puma entered the stage there were quite a few "boo"-shouters. I don't know if they did it because of the EG "scandal", because he is Korean or simply because he was Sockes opponent and they would have done it against anyone else.
When I cheered for Puma after good actions by him, showcasing his superior play, I in fact earned angry reactions. Just because I was for the wrong player. Again, this might have been anti-EG, it might have been anti-Socke's opponent, but the point is, it doesn't really matter.
I don't know if the following was on the stream:
In the commercial break between the second and third match Take entered the stage to announce that there had been attempts of glaring Puma with a laser pointer while the second match was going on. Take said that if they were continued they would send everyone away and let the players end the series backstage to assure the matches could be played under fair conditions. They actually had an IEM guy stand in front of Puma in the third match to prevent further incidents.
Now, while I am a political person, I usually try to not let that interfere with my hobby. If people have to root for a player because of his home country I let them have their fun, as long as they don't hop on the "No Koreans at MLG!"-bandwagon or shit like that. But today a line was crossed for me when I experienced hostility because I rooted for the "wrong" player. The laser pointer act might have been executed by a stupid troll, but it might as well have been a overzealous Socke fan.
My point is: I am disgusted by even the possibility of this being a trend in the esports community. What if that weren't just a few stupid individuals? I hope that every esports fan who witnesses behavious similar to what I described in this post distances him- or herself from it and feels ashamed if people not related to esports see them as representatives of our hobby and scene. Please do everything to keep esports positive, international and open to everybody, and first of all: keep it revolving around the fun! If that's true I am fuckin pissed right now. I would think that a nation that went through the horrors of nazism would be a little more sensitive about racial discrimination.
Sorry, but what?
1. it is just some stupid underage troll
2. there is no evidence that he/she was German
or are you just trolling me?
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On August 21 2011 10:41 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 10:10 nokz88 wrote:On August 21 2011 06:39 chocopaw wrote:
I was there today and enjoyed the good games. What I did not enjoy was the following. I'm not sure if the incident has been mentioned before.
If you watched the stream you probably saw how enthusiastically Socke was greeted by the fans. The crowd got heated up by Take even more.
Don't get me wrong, while I wouldn't call myself a fan I have nothing against Socke, I enjoyed quite a few games of him. But as an anti-nationalist I don't see why I should root for him because of where he was born.
When Puma entered the stage there were quite a few "boo"-shouters. I don't know if they did it because of the EG "scandal", because he is Korean or simply because he was Sockes opponent and they would have done it against anyone else.
When I cheered for Puma after good actions by him, showcasing his superior play, I in fact earned angry reactions. Just because I was for the wrong player. Again, this might have been anti-EG, it might have been anti-Socke's opponent, but the point is, it doesn't really matter.
I don't know if the following was on the stream:
In the commercial break between the second and third match Take entered the stage to announce that there had been attempts of glaring Puma with a laser pointer while the second match was going on. Take said that if they were continued they would send everyone away and let the players end the series backstage to assure the matches could be played under fair conditions. They actually had an IEM guy stand in front of Puma in the third match to prevent further incidents.
Now, while I am a political person, I usually try to not let that interfere with my hobby. If people have to root for a player because of his home country I let them have their fun, as long as they don't hop on the "No Koreans at MLG!"-bandwagon or shit like that. But today a line was crossed for me when I experienced hostility because I rooted for the "wrong" player. The laser pointer act might have been executed by a stupid troll, but it might as well have been a overzealous Socke fan.
My point is: I am disgusted by even the possibility of this being a trend in the esports community. What if that weren't just a few stupid individuals? I hope that every esports fan who witnesses behavious similar to what I described in this post distances him- or herself from it and feels ashamed if people not related to esports see them as representatives of our hobby and scene. Please do everything to keep esports positive, international and open to everybody, and first of all: keep it revolving around the fun! If that's true I am fuckin pissed right now. I would think that a nation that went through the horrors of nazism would be a little more sensitive about racial discrimination. Sorry, but what? 1. it is just some stupid underage troll 2. there is no evidence that he/she was German or are you just trolling me?
Well he has a point. And its pretty lame to be so trollish toward a player...the laser pointer shit crosses the line so far as it could have affected his gameplay. I mean come on, grow up a bit and just be happy to watch good games. National pride is good yea, but show some respect toward other players.
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On August 21 2011 10:31 Telcontar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 07:16 niteReloaded wrote:On August 21 2011 01:06 Telcontar wrote:On August 21 2011 00:36 niteReloaded wrote:On August 21 2011 00:23 Telcontar wrote:
What's wrong with KR vs KR as long it promises the best Starcraft possible? Would you not tune into Barca vs Real Madrid just because it's Spain vs Spain? or MVP vs Nestea? or Flash vs Jaedong? Maybe you guys are frustrated that the non-koreans flopped when push came to shove, but that shouldn't really deter you from tuning into a final with 2 worthy players.
Oh well, it's only your loss if you don't watch it. I watch Barca vs Real but I don't watch Real vs Villareal, and that match would better describe the current situation. 3 Koreans came (Select doesn't count) to the event, 2 of them are in the finals. MC is accomplished, but Puma isn't, so Barca vs Real analogy doesn't relate. If MVP and Nestea came, and made the finals, I bet we wouldn't see as many people complaining about KvK finals. Sure you can argue that Puma is just as good but unaccomplished because of lack of luck, but you know yourself accomplishments have their weight in situations like this. Puma isn't accompolished? I'll admit he hasn't really shown us what he can do in the GSL, but you should remember how frigging hard it is to just qualify for Code A. Even players like MMA, DRG, and Bomber had a very difficult time getting into the GSL proper, and we all knew how beastly they were. Also, PUMA FRIGGING WON THE FIRST NASL. How the fuck is that not a huge accomplishment? He rampaged through the open tournament, and stormed through the LAN finals to win a very closely contested grand finals vs MC, who was and still is, considered the best protoss in the world. HOW THE FUCK IS THAT NOT AN ACCOMPLISHMENT? You either have a short memory, or you're purposefully short-selling Puma just to promote your argument. Winning the GSL is harder than winning the NASL. And even the people who won the GSL once, I don't count as especially accomplished. In my argument, I'm comparing Puma with people who've won the GSL multiple times. He's not on the same level, at least accomplishment wise. Is that not the truth? I'm not talking about skills. If you were directly comparing MC's achievements in SC2 with Puma's, you should've said the latter was LESS accomplished than the former, not "MC is accomplished, but Puma isn't". You can understand why I took that to mean you thought he wasn't accomplished at all. Secondly, why are you directly comparing the two, when all I said was we have 2 worthy finalists who will show us awesome starcraft? Were you trying to dismantle my Barca vs Real analogy? MC vs Puma is certainly not a mismatch like Barca vs Villareal is. Both have already shown us once that both are very close in terms of their abilities in SC2, and it isn't so far-fetched to think it'll be a close affair once again. Also, it's not like Barca and Real are evenly matched in terms of recent accomplishments. Barca has won a shit ton of trophies, and almost always comes out ahead in their head-to-head meetings. Even so, we know every encounter between them is going to be fiercely competitive, closely contested, and display some of the best football in the world. That was the point I was driving home.
I agree with this guy. MC versus Puma is going to be a fine display of skill with both players being near the top of the scene. It may as well be NesTea v. MVP, or any other "top" or "high level" match-up.
And yes, calling Puma unaccomplished after he won NASL is rather silly.
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On August 21 2011 06:39 chocopaw wrote:
I was there today and enjoyed the good games. What I did not enjoy was the following. I'm not sure if the incident has been mentioned before.
If you watched the stream you probably saw how enthusiastically Socke was greeted by the fans. The crowd got heated up by Take even more.
Don't get me wrong, while I wouldn't call myself a fan I have nothing against Socke, I enjoyed quite a few games of him. But as an anti-nationalist I don't see why I should root for him because of where he was born.
When Puma entered the stage there were quite a few "boo"-shouters. I don't know if they did it because of the EG "scandal", because he is Korean or simply because he was Sockes opponent and they would have done it against anyone else.
When I cheered for Puma after good actions by him, showcasing his superior play, I in fact earned angry reactions. Just because I was for the wrong player. Again, this might have been anti-EG, it might have been anti-Socke's opponent, but the point is, it doesn't really matter.
I don't know if the following was on the stream:
In the commercial break between the second and third match Take entered the stage to announce that there had been attempts of glaring Puma with a laser pointer while the second match was going on. Take said that if they were continued they would send everyone away and let the players end the series backstage to assure the matches could be played under fair conditions. They actually had an IEM guy stand in front of Puma in the third match to prevent further incidents.
Now, while I am a political person, I usually try to not let that interfere with my hobby. If people have to root for a player because of his home country I let them have their fun, as long as they don't hop on the "No Koreans at MLG!"-bandwagon or shit like that. But today a line was crossed for me when I experienced hostility because I rooted for the "wrong" player. The laser pointer act might have been executed by a stupid troll, but it might as well have been a overzealous Socke fan.
My point is: I am disgusted by even the possibility of this being a trend in the esports community. What if that weren't just a few stupid individuals? I hope that every esports fan who witnesses behavious similar to what I described in this post distances him- or herself from it and feels ashamed if people not related to esports see them as representatives of our hobby and scene. Please do everything to keep esports positive, international and open to everybody, and first of all: keep it revolving around the fun!
Wow... No wonder he didn't want a proper interview after winning.
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On August 21 2011 06:39 chocopaw wrote:
I was there today and enjoyed the good games. What I did not enjoy was the following. I'm not sure if the incident has been mentioned before.
If you watched the stream you probably saw how enthusiastically Socke was greeted by the fans. The crowd got heated up by Take even more.
Don't get me wrong, while I wouldn't call myself a fan I have nothing against Socke, I enjoyed quite a few games of him. But as an anti-nationalist I don't see why I should root for him because of where he was born.
When Puma entered the stage there were quite a few "boo"-shouters. I don't know if they did it because of the EG "scandal", because he is Korean or simply because he was Sockes opponent and they would have done it against anyone else.
When I cheered for Puma after good actions by him, showcasing his superior play, I in fact earned angry reactions. Just because I was for the wrong player. Again, this might have been anti-EG, it might have been anti-Socke's opponent, but the point is, it doesn't really matter.
I don't know if the following was on the stream:
In the commercial break between the second and third match Take entered the stage to announce that there had been attempts of glaring Puma with a laser pointer while the second match was going on. Take said that if they were continued they would send everyone away and let the players end the series backstage to assure the matches could be played under fair conditions. They actually had an IEM guy stand in front of Puma in the third match to prevent further incidents.
Now, while I am a political person, I usually try to not let that interfere with my hobby. If people have to root for a player because of his home country I let them have their fun, as long as they don't hop on the "No Koreans at MLG!"-bandwagon or shit like that. But today a line was crossed for me when I experienced hostility because I rooted for the "wrong" player. The laser pointer act might have been executed by a stupid troll, but it might as well have been a overzealous Socke fan.
My point is: I am disgusted by even the possibility of this being a trend in the esports community. What if that weren't just a few stupid individuals? I hope that every esports fan who witnesses behavious similar to what I described in this post distances him- or herself from it and feels ashamed if people not related to esports see them as representatives of our hobby and scene. Please do everything to keep esports positive, international and open to everybody, and first of all: keep it revolving around the fun!
Wow... thats fuckin terrible....
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On August 20 2011 05:45 Jinivus wrote:
MC 3-0 Mana
Puma 3-0 Socke
Where can I watch the vod for these matches?
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On August 21 2011 11:49 snafoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 06:39 chocopaw wrote:
I was there today and enjoyed the good games. What I did not enjoy was the following. I'm not sure if the incident has been mentioned before.
If you watched the stream you probably saw how enthusiastically Socke was greeted by the fans. The crowd got heated up by Take even more.
Don't get me wrong, while I wouldn't call myself a fan I have nothing against Socke, I enjoyed quite a few games of him. But as an anti-nationalist I don't see why I should root for him because of where he was born.
When Puma entered the stage there were quite a few "boo"-shouters. I don't know if they did it because of the EG "scandal", because he is Korean or simply because he was Sockes opponent and they would have done it against anyone else.
When I cheered for Puma after good actions by him, showcasing his superior play, I in fact earned angry reactions. Just because I was for the wrong player. Again, this might have been anti-EG, it might have been anti-Socke's opponent, but the point is, it doesn't really matter.
I don't know if the following was on the stream:
In the commercial break between the second and third match Take entered the stage to announce that there had been attempts of glaring Puma with a laser pointer while the second match was going on. Take said that if they were continued they would send everyone away and let the players end the series backstage to assure the matches could be played under fair conditions. They actually had an IEM guy stand in front of Puma in the third match to prevent further incidents.
Now, while I am a political person, I usually try to not let that interfere with my hobby. If people have to root for a player because of his home country I let them have their fun, as long as they don't hop on the "No Koreans at MLG!"-bandwagon or shit like that. But today a line was crossed for me when I experienced hostility because I rooted for the "wrong" player. The laser pointer act might have been executed by a stupid troll, but it might as well have been a overzealous Socke fan.
My point is: I am disgusted by even the possibility of this being a trend in the esports community. What if that weren't just a few stupid individuals? I hope that every esports fan who witnesses behavious similar to what I described in this post distances him- or herself from it and feels ashamed if people not related to esports see them as representatives of our hobby and scene. Please do everything to keep esports positive, international and open to everybody, and first of all: keep it revolving around the fun! Wow... thats fuckin terrible....
yep, not to mention hte fact that this stupid behavior will make koreans think that the foreign scene is disrespectful and will stop going to tournaments if fans behave like retards.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
Wow, I had no clue it went that far. Puma's no-interview makes a little more sense now. I would've been hella pissed if someone had done that to me.
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On August 21 2011 10:41 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 10:10 nokz88 wrote:On August 21 2011 06:39 chocopaw wrote:
I was there today and enjoyed the good games. What I did not enjoy was the following. I'm not sure if the incident has been mentioned before.
If you watched the stream you probably saw how enthusiastically Socke was greeted by the fans. The crowd got heated up by Take even more.
Don't get me wrong, while I wouldn't call myself a fan I have nothing against Socke, I enjoyed quite a few games of him. But as an anti-nationalist I don't see why I should root for him because of where he was born.
When Puma entered the stage there were quite a few "boo"-shouters. I don't know if they did it because of the EG "scandal", because he is Korean or simply because he was Sockes opponent and they would have done it against anyone else.
When I cheered for Puma after good actions by him, showcasing his superior play, I in fact earned angry reactions. Just because I was for the wrong player. Again, this might have been anti-EG, it might have been anti-Socke's opponent, but the point is, it doesn't really matter.
I don't know if the following was on the stream:
In the commercial break between the second and third match Take entered the stage to announce that there had been attempts of glaring Puma with a laser pointer while the second match was going on. Take said that if they were continued they would send everyone away and let the players end the series backstage to assure the matches could be played under fair conditions. They actually had an IEM guy stand in front of Puma in the third match to prevent further incidents.
Now, while I am a political person, I usually try to not let that interfere with my hobby. If people have to root for a player because of his home country I let them have their fun, as long as they don't hop on the "No Koreans at MLG!"-bandwagon or shit like that. But today a line was crossed for me when I experienced hostility because I rooted for the "wrong" player. The laser pointer act might have been executed by a stupid troll, but it might as well have been a overzealous Socke fan.
My point is: I am disgusted by even the possibility of this being a trend in the esports community. What if that weren't just a few stupid individuals? I hope that every esports fan who witnesses behavious similar to what I described in this post distances him- or herself from it and feels ashamed if people not related to esports see them as representatives of our hobby and scene. Please do everything to keep esports positive, international and open to everybody, and first of all: keep it revolving around the fun! If that's true I am fuckin pissed right now. I would think that a nation that went through the horrors of nazism would be a little more sensitive about racial discrimination. Sorry, but what? 1. it is just some stupid underage troll 2. there is no evidence that he/she was German or are you just trolling me?
The original poster was talking about various actions done by more than one person and not just the one incident of the laser pointer.
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On August 21 2011 06:39 chocopaw wrote:
I was there today and enjoyed the good games. What I did not enjoy was the following. I'm not sure if the incident has been mentioned before.
If you watched the stream you probably saw how enthusiastically Socke was greeted by the fans. The crowd got heated up by Take even more.
Don't get me wrong, while I wouldn't call myself a fan I have nothing against Socke, I enjoyed quite a few games of him. But as an anti-nationalist I don't see why I should root for him because of where he was born.
When Puma entered the stage there were quite a few "boo"-shouters. I don't know if they did it because of the EG "scandal", because he is Korean or simply because he was Sockes opponent and they would have done it against anyone else.
When I cheered for Puma after good actions by him, showcasing his superior play, I in fact earned angry reactions. Just because I was for the wrong player. Again, this might have been anti-EG, it might have been anti-Socke's opponent, but the point is, it doesn't really matter.
I don't know if the following was on the stream:
In the commercial break between the second and third match Take entered the stage to announce that there had been attempts of glaring Puma with a laser pointer while the second match was going on. Take said that if they were continued they would send everyone away and let the players end the series backstage to assure the matches could be played under fair conditions. They actually had an IEM guy stand in front of Puma in the third match to prevent further incidents.
Now, while I am a political person, I usually try to not let that interfere with my hobby. If people have to root for a player because of his home country I let them have their fun, as long as they don't hop on the "No Koreans at MLG!"-bandwagon or shit like that. But today a line was crossed for me when I experienced hostility because I rooted for the "wrong" player. The laser pointer act might have been executed by a stupid troll, but it might as well have been a overzealous Socke fan.
My point is: I am disgusted by even the possibility of this being a trend in the esports community. What if that weren't just a few stupid individuals? I hope that every esports fan who witnesses behavious similar to what I described in this post distances him- or herself from it and feels ashamed if people not related to esports see them as representatives of our hobby and scene. Please do everything to keep esports positive, international and open to everybody, and first of all: keep it revolving around the fun!
this makes me pretty disappointed in the sc2 community.
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EPT
