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On July 22 2011 14:05 crojar wrote:
Find a way to have Blizzard acknowledge that this is legitimate. That or show us somehow yourself. The burden of proving legitimacy falls on you. You are asking us to pay for something; to just blindly believe this tournament is what you say it is with all the shady stuff posted in this thread would be stupid.
Enough about the tournament, you wanting feedback, etc.
You are absolutely right. As I have previously stated we are looking to simply get the word out and that was the purpose of the TL sponsored thread. We will cross the legitimacy boundaries via the Blizzard announcements, all we're looking for is feedback and "acknowledgement".
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As much as we the gaming public would like to believe you, there are several odd things about your ambitious and hopefully true endeavor. If i could speak for the gaming public, we think this is a grand idea, and we hope this is all true and real. However, so far we haven't been able to realize if this is all a real event or not. Please show us proof that Blizzard has approved this tournament, or quotes SPECIFICALLY from the players that have won from your "sponsored" tournaments and it would gladly please our worried and concerned minds.
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On July 22 2011 14:05 NeSE wrote:
Pharside, I cannot publicly post that as I was going to post it and the response I received from Blizzard is that is Not public information. They will be posting our tournament up their sites though to ensure legitimacy.
Except I know this is not true LOL. but I'll give you one more chance. Post the "Grant of Tournament License" clause on your license to prove you have a license. This is public information that anyone is allowed to see. Post it.
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Is this what you're referring to?
2. Blizzard’s Responsibilities: With regards to the Tournament, Blizzard shall have the following obligations:
a. Grant of License – Right to use the Software for Tournament play. Blizzard hereby grants, and Organizer accepts, a non-exclusive, non-transferable, license and right to use and display the StarCraft® II: Wings of Liberty™ software (the “Software”) in the Territory: (a) As an integral part of the Tournament and such exhibitions and events which are to be held in conjunction therewith with Blizzard’s prior approval; and (b) for other uses related to the Tournament that have been approved by Blizzard in advance of such use. Additionally, Blizzard hereby grants, and Organizer hereby accepts, a limited, non-exclusive license to utilize the Blizzard’s trademarks, logos, copyrighted content, trade secrets, trade names or designations, audio, video, text, etc. associated with the Software (“Blizzard Intellectual Property”) in advertisements, posters, flyers, banner advertisements and other marketing materials (“Marketing Materials”) related to the Tournament, subject to Blizzard’s approval rights as set forth in Section 2(c) below.
b. Grant of License – Broadcast Rights. This Agreement does not include any right for Organizer to broadcast the Software over close circuit, network, cable, satellite, internet streaming video, or any other form of broadcast distribution (“Broadcast Media”). In the event that Blizzard, in its sole discretion, determines that it is in its best interest to allow Organizer to distribute video of the Tournament over Broadcast Media, a ‘rider’ signed by both parties that contains the terms and conditions granting Organizer the right to distribute Broadcast Media, shall be executed to establish the rights and responsibilities of the parties related to Organizer’s distribution of Broadcast Media.
c. Approval. Organizer shall submit samples of all Marketing Materials created for the Tournament to Blizzard for its prior written approval, which approval shall not be unreasonably withheld and shall be solely with respect to the accurate representation of the Blizzard Intellectual Property in the Marketing Materials. Blizzard is not granted approval rights as to any other aspect of the Marketing Materials. Blizzard shall review submitted Marketing Materials within ten (10) business days of receipt of Organizer’s submission. If Blizzard does not approve or reject the submission within ten (10) business days from the date of Blizzard’s receipt of the Marketing Materials, they shall be deemed to be rejected by Blizzard. If Blizzard rejects submitted Marketing Materials, Blizzard will, within such ten (10) day period, notify Organizer of defects in the representation of the Blizzard Intellectual Property in the Marketing Materials, and Organizer will immediately rectify such defects and resubmit the rectified items for prompt approval. Organizer will not distribute any Marketing Materials containing Blizzard Intellectual Property until Blizzard has approved the use of Blizzard Intellectual Property in such Marketing Materials in writing. Blizzard shall solely retain all right and title to the Software and the Blizzard Intellectual Property, and its use shall inure only to the benefit of Blizzard. Organizer agrees not to alter, erase, deface, or overprint any such mark or logo on anything provided and approved by Blizzard to Organizer.
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On July 22 2011 14:09 heartjc wrote:
As much as we the gaming public would like to believe you, there are several odd things about your ambitious and hopefully true endeavor. If i could speak for the gaming public, we think this is a grand idea, and we hope this is all true and real. However, so far we haven't been able to realize if this is all a real event or not. Please show us proof that Blizzard has approved this tournament, or quotes SPECIFICALLY from the players that have won from your "sponsored" tournaments and it would gladly please our worried and concerned minds.
So very true, I wish I could just grab ONEKyhol and sixjaxDDE and have them post here right now. I will send them both messages as well as this link and see what I can accomplish for you.
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On July 22 2011 13:51 Kuchcio wrote: ... Also since the website is online, and you guys are owners you guys can face legal actions such as fines or arrest for allowing pornographic materials get to the minors, but that is the only thing I know since I am not a lawyer
Forums that aren't maintained being infiltrated by a spambots isn't uncommon, and the owner of the site can't be held accountable for what the spambots post. That's why any forum has you agree to terms of use before registering.
Like this from TL's terms of use
+ Show Spoiler +TeamLiquid does not control or guarantee the accuracy, integrity or quality of user submitted content posted on the site. We take no responsibility and assume no liability for any user submitted content, or for any mistakes, defamation, slander, libel, omissions, falsehoods, obscenity, pornography, or profanity you may encounter. All content posted by users, including any opinions, advice or recommendations expressed, are those of the users providing such content and not those of TeamLiquid. Unless otherwise stated, we do not endorse any user submitted content or any opinion, recommendation or advice.
Feel bad for the guy if everything he says is true. It's all pretty weird, but there's no proof that it's a scam, I'm pretty sure there would be an angry forum post somewhere on Google if people had their money taken by the first iteration of the tournament. Insistent that there will be an announcement on August 1st that makes this sound more legitimate, might as well wait until then before judging. The first signup deadline isn't until two months after August 1st, so if it's just a grab for money, giving people all that time to decide and promising a blizzard endorsement so soon would be an odd move to make.
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On July 22 2011 14:18 Nathris wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 13:51 Kuchcio wrote: ... Also since the website is online, and you guys are owners you guys can face legal actions such as fines or arrest for allowing pornographic materials get to the minors, but that is the only thing I know since I am not a lawyer Forums that aren't maintained being infiltrated by a spambots isn't uncommon, and the owner of the site can't be held accountable for what the spambots post. That's why any forum has you agree to terms of use before registering. Like this from TL's terms of use + Show Spoiler +TeamLiquid does not control or guarantee the accuracy, integrity or quality of user submitted content posted on the site. We take no responsibility and assume no liability for any user submitted content, or for any mistakes, defamation, slander, libel, omissions, falsehoods, obscenity, pornography, or profanity you may encounter. All content posted by users, including any opinions, advice or recommendations expressed, are those of the users providing such content and not those of TeamLiquid. Unless otherwise stated, we do not endorse any user submitted content or any opinion, recommendation or advice. Feel bad for the guy if everything he says is true. It's all pretty weird, but there's no proof that it's a scam, I'm pretty sure there would be an angry forum post somewhere on Google if people had their money taken by the first iteration of the tournament. Insistent that there will be an announcement on August 1st that makes this sound more legitimate, might as well wait until then before judging. The first signup deadline isn't until two months after August 1st, so if it's just a grab for money, giving people all that time to decide and promising a blizzard endorsement so soon would be an odd move to make.
Thank you.
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NeSE.. that was a decent response to my post.. but I think some of us are still looking to hear a bit more about you.. or at least the people behind this event.
What experience with eSports do you have?
Have you or others in your organization ran events prior to this?
Those sorts of things help as well.
I am very curious to see how this all pans out.. but I really think you will need to be patient and most important you will need let us all know a bit about you personally or those in your organization. If you are here to put up an event and make some money..that's fine.. I am OK with that.. if it really is about the average players.. then even better.. but I think it just came off wrong to some here.. including myself.
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Braavos36402 Posts
I think everyone should hold on and just wait for more information from Blizzard.
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You posted the generic agreement. Do you really think you are pulling the wool over my eyes man? You know what I'm asking for. You claim blizzard is going to post about your tournament. For this to happen you HAVE to be a direct partner with blizzard and have a license. You can clear the air right now by posting that licensing or the clause I am asking for in that license. You keep dodging this bullet, but I'll keep waiting.
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On July 22 2011 14:07 NeSE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 13:59 jobebob wrote:
Classic pyramid scheme. For every person that makes it to the 6th round (getting first in a 4096 man tourney) they (Ne-Se) make around $40,000. The best part about this is that they don't need to do anything; they don't even need to have the players go a full 6 rounds or any amount of rounds for that matter, to make a profit. Everything is automated! I have absolutely no idea how you arrived at this conclusion but the truth of this matter has been explained in several topics in several ways at this point.
Simple, right now the way your tournament is set up is super shady.
Lets model your profit margin:
a*p^b + (a/(p-2))*(2^b-p^b)
where a is the reg fee, p is the bracket size, and b is the number of round. So right now in your case a=$20, p=4, b=6 do the math: 41,600
Notice how the second part of the equation is always going to be smaller, and goes up exponentially for every extra round you have.
Secondly you say that there will be 50 players in the round of 7. Does that mean you expect 204,800 players to sign up? Unless I misunderstood your format, this is impossible.
Now I have no problem with tournaments making a profit but I don't see how you can justify a profit margin that looks like this:
+ Show Spoiler +
for basically not actually producing any content. I know you are based in Vegas and all, but most of the country has laws against this sort of thing.
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my head hurts.. .and I am a math guy even.
although.. looking at the math.. you have it listed as b = number of round.. but if their model is that you only pay the registration fee 1 time of 20..then the number of rounds does not factor into figuring additional profit. I could be wrong though..cause after looking at your math.. my head started to hurt!
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I really am looking back at these posts and I cannot blame us for things spiraling into what they have become here.
This is the NeSE's first large event and this is the first time we are attempting a large event as well so there is no prior experience there. I personally, as well as other members of the NeSE, have been loyal gamers specifically to Blizzard games since 1996. I also played WoW at a semi-professional level competing in a few live events. Our corporation was previously viewed mainly as an investment firm that mainly focused on start-up level businesses with some experience in corporate expanding and what not. We were also heavily affiliated with the Las Vegas night life scene based on some investments. Through all of our businesses we had many friends at Blizzard Entertainment and then had this particular concept come our direction.
We elected to pursue this endeavor with a full head of steam and relinquish all our interest in other companies. We will continue to focus solely on this event and eSports in the United States in general to no exact end. Within our organization we have a great deal of experience with high quality live broadcasts, extensive web site video capabilities and a strong expenditure account to work from. We believe the overall quality of broadcast is where eSports is Truly lacking and we have already spent large sums of capital on making great strides in that department. We are extremely excited to bring our first event to the public eye in June of 2012 at our finals.
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with all of that being said.. I for one am looking forward to see it happen!
Oh.. Do you have a name.. or should we just call you NeSE.. do you have an online alias that you have played with in the past?
Also.. you do realize the risk of dropping investment into all of your other companies and popping it in eSports right?
He is right about eSports lacking quality broadcast (no need to bring up NASL anyone!)..
hmm.. I'm perplexed.
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On July 22 2011 14:25 jobebob wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 14:07 NeSE wrote:On July 22 2011 13:59 jobebob wrote:
Classic pyramid scheme. For every person that makes it to the 6th round (getting first in a 4096 man tourney) they (Ne-Se) make around $40,000. The best part about this is that they don't need to do anything; they don't even need to have the players go a full 6 rounds or any amount of rounds for that matter, to make a profit. Everything is automated! I have absolutely no idea how you arrived at this conclusion but the truth of this matter has been explained in several topics in several ways at this point. Simple, right now the way your tournament is set up is super shady. Lets model your profit margin: a*p^b + (a/(p-2))*(2^b-p^b) where a is the reg fee, p is the bracket size, and b is the number of round. So right now in your case a=$20, p=4, b=6 do the math: 41,600 Notice how the second part of the equation is always going to be smaller, and goes up exponentially for every extra round you have. Secondly you say that there will be 50 players in the round of 7. Does that mean you expect 204,800 players to sign up? Unless I misunderstood your format, this is impossible. Now I have no problem with tournaments making a profit but I don't see how you can justify a profit margin that looks like this: + Show Spoiler +for basically not actually producing any content. I know you are based in Vegas and all, but most of the country has laws against this sort of thing.
This is an insane version of our prize pool system and make absolutely no sense. We actually have our prize pool system broken down on a chart for everyone to clearly see in our office. I assure, what is posted on our wall is absolutely nothing like what you have mentioned here.
This event is NOT designed to be a money maker or generate any revenue at all for the NeSE organization. Nor is the possibility of revenue from registrations even counted on amongst our team. The goal of this tournament is to provide the best possible event that we can provide and that is Costing us money from Season start to Season finish.
I must admit, since when is the profit of a company anyone's concern? This is our product and this is what we are featuring. Unfortunately, at this time, we have to charge an entry fee in order to continue our organization forward we cannot depend on community donations, sorry. We hope to one day be able to provide this exact format but at no cost regarding entry fee, but that is not possible at this time.
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On July 22 2011 14:30 csn_JohnClark wrote:
my head hurts.. .and I am a math guy even.
although.. looking at the math.. you have it listed as b = number of round.. but if their model is that you only pay the registration fee 1 time of 20..then the number of rounds does not factor into figuring additional profit. I could be wrong though..cause after looking at your math.. my head started to hurt!
Let me explain:
a*p^b is the number of players that need to register for ONE person to make it to the round of six, times the registration fee.
now a* Sum( (-1)*(2^n)*p^(b-1-n)) from n=0, to n=b-1,
is the amount of money they have to "return" to players for winning.
Combine the two and you get Profit = a*p^b + a* Sum( (-1)*(2^n)*p^(b-1-n)) , which
reduces to the equation I posted.
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On July 22 2011 14:35 csn_JohnClark wrote:
with all of that being said.. I for one am looking forward to see it happen!
Oh.. Do you have a name.. or should we just call you NeSE.. do you have an online alias that you have played with in the past?
Also.. you do realize the risk of dropping investment into all of your other companies and popping it in eSports right?
He is right about eSports lacking quality broadcast (no need to bring up NASL anyone!)..
hmm.. I'm perplexed.
We absolutely understand the risk we took. We also truly believe in the gaming industry and its community through-in and through-out.
You can call me Dannie and I go by the the alias Unruly.337 on bnet. I would personally LOVE to play a few of you posters on this forum! Thanks for 4 hours of sitting in front of a forum board!
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now my head just exploded.. TY for that.
Now I see exactly what you mean. Thank you.
NeSE.. check up a bit on my last post to you and answer a few of those if you can. I am sure others are curious to know a bit about you personally and your gaming aliases.
I like the idea..
Fuzzy math it appears (you may wanna have your guys look over their math again)
I like the responses.. just missing some details
You have remained patient.
You are still answering questions..that's good.
Lets see where this all goes I guess.
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ahh..just posted my last post after you replied. Sorry.
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That is what I am here for and I, nor the NeSE, will be going anywhere :-)
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ESSO2.jpg)
