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Stay positive, be happy and enjoy the event. Caster bashing and player bashing? Too much whining? Uh-oh! |
On August 05 2011 02:02 coko wrote:Are you not entertained?Seriously enough QQ. Can't be bothered to defend players from those arguing WIN WIN WIN. FUN FUN FUN IMO. FUN WIN FUN. or WIN FUN WIN. Seems fine to me. At least they didn't just instantly leave. And for the rules against it. You can't. I mean by that rule Idra should of be DQ'd for leaving against MMA because he was winning and left. Was he trying to avoid the next player he'd meet? No. Clearly not. Yes you could argue that you know why they are doing what they are doing. But you cannot say for certain they are playing to lose. They are playing to be crazy imo.
In IdrA's case throwing his games against MMA would make absolutely no sense and could not possibly benefit him in any fashion. It was also clearly unintentional.
In this case they were obviously throwing games, anyone could see it. You cannot possibly believe that it wasn't the case.
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On August 05 2011 02:03 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 01:54 Therg wrote:
I'm surprised so many people want Stephano and Brat_OK to be DQ-ed. This phenomena happens in big sports events as well. Rather blame the tournament structure than the players imo. Why is everyone saying this? Just because someone gets an opportunity to cheat does not mean it is OK to do so!! So are all of you the kind of person that would find a wallet on a street with money in it but also the owner identity, take the money and throw away the wallet?!
Don't use stupid metaphors to try and argue. That has nothing in common with this. If you were asked to kill 10 people to receive a Starcraft III copy would you?
Does that make any sense? No.
Cheating is a strong word, they didn't cheat, they did play, they didn't tell the other person. Here I'll give you $10 and you can lose.
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Yeah if u want to blame someone blame Bratok ffs, but in my opinion neither of them should be blamed for what they did
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United States22883 Posts
On August 05 2011 02:03 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 01:54 Therg wrote:
I'm surprised so many people want Stephano and Brat_OK to be DQ-ed. This phenomena happens in big sports events as well. Rather blame the tournament structure than the players imo. Why is everyone saying this? Just because someone gets an opportunity to cheat does not mean it is OK to do so!! So are all of you the kind of person that would find a wallet on a street with money in it but also the owner identity, take the money and throw away the wallet?!
Your analogy is hurting ESPORTS.
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Problem is if BratOK and Stephano won't be DQ then both NaDa and HuK will have incentive to throw games as well.
Obviously the tournament administration is to blame as well but at least the tournament system can be fixed before the next edition.
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On August 05 2011 02:04 Seronei wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 02:03 -Archangel- wrote:On August 05 2011 01:54 Therg wrote:
I'm surprised so many people want Stephano and Brat_OK to be DQ-ed. This phenomena happens in big sports events as well. Rather blame the tournament structure than the players imo. Why is everyone saying this? Just because someone gets an opportunity to cheat does not mean it is OK to do so!! So are all of you the kind of person that would find a wallet on a street with money in it but also the owner identity, take the money and throw away the wallet?! Nope, that would be against the law.
So is this, real the tournament rules.
And taking money from a lost wallet is not against the law, at least not any law I heard of in this country.
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On August 05 2011 02:04 Exarl25 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 02:02 coko wrote:Are you not entertained?Seriously enough QQ. Can't be bothered to defend players from those arguing WIN WIN WIN. FUN FUN FUN IMO. FUN WIN FUN. or WIN FUN WIN. Seems fine to me. At least they didn't just instantly leave. And for the rules against it. You can't. I mean by that rule Idra should of be DQ'd for leaving against MMA because he was winning and left. Was he trying to avoid the next player he'd meet? No. Clearly not. Yes you could argue that you know why they are doing what they are doing. But you cannot say for certain they are playing to lose. They are playing to be crazy imo. In IdrA's case throwing his games against MMA would make absolutely no sense and could not possibly benefit him in any fashion. It was also clearly unintentional. In this case they were obviously throwing games, anyone could see it. You cannot possibly believe that it wasn't the case.
What I am arguing is that how can you have a code in the rules of the game that can tell the difference. Saying. "Obviously it is different" isn't enough. Do you go super strong with the rules and DQ people in grey-situations as well? Is that good for the sport?
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In my civilised country of NZ taking anything that is not yours is theft even if there is no clear ownership e.g. you found it on the street. You have to report the item to the police and then, only after a claim period expires, can you take ownership of the found goods... if the government doesn't take ownership first.
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On August 05 2011 02:02 bennedik wrote:
I am in Helsinki and have a day off tomorrow. Is it possible to go to Assembly just to watch the Starcraft tournament? On the website they seem to be talking about the players only, but I would just want to watch.
You'll need a pass to enter. I think they're still selling them at the doors, but it costs 40€.
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Can we just accept that everyone has some vaguely related thing that they can compare this to. None of these are elegant ways of strengthening your argument because to everyone else they're like shoddy masonry in a place that doesn't even need buttressing. What do you think about that?!
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On August 05 2011 02:05 coko wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 02:04 Exarl25 wrote:On August 05 2011 02:02 coko wrote:Are you not entertained?Seriously enough QQ. Can't be bothered to defend players from those arguing WIN WIN WIN. FUN FUN FUN IMO. FUN WIN FUN. or WIN FUN WIN. Seems fine to me. At least they didn't just instantly leave. And for the rules against it. You can't. I mean by that rule Idra should of be DQ'd for leaving against MMA because he was winning and left. Was he trying to avoid the next player he'd meet? No. Clearly not. Yes you could argue that you know why they are doing what they are doing. But you cannot say for certain they are playing to lose. They are playing to be crazy imo. In IdrA's case throwing his games against MMA would make absolutely no sense and could not possibly benefit him in any fashion. It was also clearly unintentional. In this case they were obviously throwing games, anyone could see it. You cannot possibly believe that it wasn't the case. What I am arguing is that how can you have a code in the rules of the game that can tell the difference. Saying. "Obviously it is different" isn't enough. Do you go super strong with the rules and DQ people in grey-situations as well? Is that good for the sport?
Obviously it would be left up to the admins discretion. Same way wins are sometimes awarded to players after a disconnect situation.
In a case like this I think the players would be very, very hard pressed to come up with a reasonable explanation for why they would play in such a fashion if they were trying to win. Not a single person here with a functional brain thinks they were playing seriously, that is more than enough for an admin to make a decision.
There is no grey here at all.
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On August 05 2011 02:08 Tanukki wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 02:02 bennedik wrote:
I am in Helsinki and have a day off tomorrow. Is it possible to go to Assembly just to watch the Starcraft tournament? On the website they seem to be talking about the players only, but I would just want to watch. You'll need a pass to enter. I think they're still selling them at the doors, but it costs 40€.
40€ would be OK, but do they have a big screen and commentary for the fans to watch the games?
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What's the name of the Sweeny Todd starcraft song? Didn't find anyting on youtube or on tl 
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I read all these complaints in a stereotypical nerdy nasal voice. I tried to take the complaints seriously but the voice kept coming back.
Seriously, its one series in a million. Move on.
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The same sort of thing happened in the NASL last week. July and Select both threw their games obviously. July went double 6 pool and lost. Select won game 1 against MC, then lost game 2 for going 3 base battlecruiser with no Vikings and MC went voidray/Carriers (select also floated 3000 minerals). Game 3 Select went 1 base nuke rush which didn't go so well.
Who got punished for this? Ret, who was forced to play Puma in the first round and had a very short tournament indeed.
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On August 05 2011 02:09 thopol wrote:
Can we just accept that everyone has some vaguely related thing that they can compare this to. None of these are elegant ways of strengthening your argument because to everyone else they're like shoddy masonry in a place that doesn't even need buttressing. What do you think about that?!
What do I think? I'm slightly confused by the subject of your analogy, but intrigued by the word "buttress."
Seriously, though -- it's a problem with the tournament format. Essentially whoever won that series would be punished by having to face a harder opponent. I only saw game three, but it was pretty hilarious, so I personally don't care at all if they're still giving the viewers a show. I'll refrain from using any analogies, but seriously, I don't see anything wrong with what the players did -- it's not an ideal situation obviously to have a series that neither player wants to win, but that's the fault of the tournament structure, not the players' conduct.
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On August 05 2011 02:05 coko wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2011 02:04 Exarl25 wrote:On August 05 2011 02:02 coko wrote:Are you not entertained?Seriously enough QQ. Can't be bothered to defend players from those arguing WIN WIN WIN. FUN FUN FUN IMO. FUN WIN FUN. or WIN FUN WIN. Seems fine to me. At least they didn't just instantly leave. And for the rules against it. You can't. I mean by that rule Idra should of be DQ'd for leaving against MMA because he was winning and left. Was he trying to avoid the next player he'd meet? No. Clearly not. Yes you could argue that you know why they are doing what they are doing. But you cannot say for certain they are playing to lose. They are playing to be crazy imo. In IdrA's case throwing his games against MMA would make absolutely no sense and could not possibly benefit him in any fashion. It was also clearly unintentional. In this case they were obviously throwing games, anyone could see it. You cannot possibly believe that it wasn't the case. What I am arguing is that how can you have a code in the rules of the game that can tell the difference. Saying. "Obviously it is different" isn't enough. Do you go super strong with the rules and DQ people in grey-situations as well? Is that good for the sport?
Exactly, the problem you run into then is that next time this happens they just have to be lass obvious about. Was he really not looking when that medivac flew over the spore crawler instead of turning around. This player didn't take his third when he normally does or he got supplu capped 10 times that game. In this case yes it is obvious but the this tournament bracket can cause all games played in these situations to be subject.
Would we rather both players have pretended to play there hardest while really trying to lose the game? Remember who was it nada vs Idra I think it was in the GSL where Idra 3-0d the group, but it was because Nada went for this very weird thor attack, I hate rules that are not carefully defined because then you have admin's forced to try to make different calls and split the community on both sides.
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Does the bracket seem wrong to anyone else on liquipedia? According to the OP, TLO should be playing Dimaga, and Sjow should be playing Bischu (A1 vs D2, D1 vs A2)?
EDIT: I would fix it, but I don't know whether the liquipedia is wrong or the OP.
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Being a true competitor must always be enforce in every sport and must prevail over business sense. Throwing games is the worst imaginable thing. Saviour et all did it for the money to. That was on betting lines and this one is to have better chances to advance and go to the money spots (Welmu and Sen is a huge difference. Sorry, no offense to Welmu, but that is a fact)
Could you imagine the outcry in your country during Football WC, if your country threw a game to getting a better opponent in the Ro16? The players would be crucified in Germany. Lol.
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EPT
