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Bet TOP was wishing he could power build like in WC3 right there
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On July 12 2011 21:54 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 21:52 Ysellian wrote:On July 12 2011 21:49 Medrea wrote:On July 12 2011 21:47 Daralii wrote:On July 12 2011 21:45 Medrea wrote:
Overlords should have a separate really destination from units. Thats like the one real clunky thing left in SC2. Wasn't everyone on TL just complaining that SC2 isn't clunky enough? x_x Well, I am hella against poor control schemes that take away options from the player. Intentionally making a game control terribly is prob the silliest thing you can do. Control should always be granted, never taken away. Same goes for elements that do things automatically, they take control away. Toss can't warp using the Mini map. . I always felt like they should be able to given the space is powered obviously.
I feel the same, but if you look at it from a balance point of perspective it makes sense that some controls are left as they are. Not sure how much a separate really point weighs in that factor, but I'm sure Blizzard have considered.
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On July 12 2011 21:56 Djagulingu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 21:49 Freerider wrote:
Now everyone should know that you can`t win against a good terran with just ling/bane/muta nowadays... Have you EVER watched a SINGLE game of  DongRaeGu? Let me spoiler you: + Show Spoiler +LG Cinema 3D Special Tournament finals: 3-2 against sC
GSTL June: 3 ZvT wins against BoxeR, GanZi, MMA and a 4th one against NaDa all with muta/bane/ling
dongraegu doesn't win because he uses a powerfull unit composition though, he could probably use infestors or try to get broodlords earlier and still win :D
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On July 12 2011 21:56 Djagulingu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 21:49 Freerider wrote:
Now everyone should know that you can`t win against a good terran with just ling/bane/muta nowadays... Have you EVER watched a SINGLE game of DongRaeGu? Let me spoiler you: + Show Spoiler +LG Cinema 3D Special Tournament finals: 3-2 against sC
GSTL June: 3 ZvT wins against BoxeR, GanZi, MMA and a 4th one against NaDa all with muta/bane/ling
Yeah lol. You have to control it well though, and Losira threw away his units too many times, which you just can't do, especially with your mutas, and he flew them over turrets or marines a couple times and lost way too many. Also engaged mutas against marines when he didn't have to...you never want to let the terran whittle away your muta numbers.
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TOP sieged up outside Losira's third, Losira comes in for a flank and cleans it up but loses a few mutas
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On July 12 2011 21:58 DystopiaX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 21:56 Djagulingu wrote:On July 12 2011 21:49 Freerider wrote:
Now everyone should know that you can`t win against a good terran with just ling/bane/muta nowadays... Have you EVER watched a SINGLE game of DongRaeGu? Let me spoiler you: + Show Spoiler +LG Cinema 3D Special Tournament finals: 3-2 against sC
GSTL June: 3 ZvT wins against BoxeR, GanZi, MMA and a 4th one against NaDa all with muta/bane/ling Yeah lol. You have to control it well though, and Losira threw away his units too many times, which you just can't do, especially with your mutas, and he flew them over turrets or marines a couple times and lost way too many. Also engaged mutas against marines when he didn't have to...you never want to let the terran whittle away your muta numbers.
You need to wait for one big engagement to outright crush the push, instead of throwing away small numbers. July and DRG both do that so well.
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On July 12 2011 21:57 Ysellian wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 21:54 Medrea wrote:On July 12 2011 21:52 Ysellian wrote:On July 12 2011 21:49 Medrea wrote:On July 12 2011 21:47 Daralii wrote:On July 12 2011 21:45 Medrea wrote:
Overlords should have a separate really destination from units. Thats like the one real clunky thing left in SC2. Wasn't everyone on TL just complaining that SC2 isn't clunky enough? x_x Well, I am hella against poor control schemes that take away options from the player. Intentionally making a game control terribly is prob the silliest thing you can do. Control should always be granted, never taken away. Same goes for elements that do things automatically, they take control away. Toss can't warp using the Mini map. . I always felt like they should be able to given the space is powered obviously. I feel the same, but if you look at it from a balance point of perspective it makes sense that some controls are left as they are. Not sure how much a separate really point weighs in that factor, but I'm sure Blizzard have considered.
You know that larva statement someone was saying before where you select larva manually and then rally them off to the side while you make other units, is a LOT like warping in and it made me realize that is the APM balancing factor against warping in on screen.
Blizzard is so fucking smart soemtimes.
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On July 12 2011 21:55 Eufouria wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 21:51 gakkgakk wrote:On July 12 2011 21:45 Eufouria wrote:On July 12 2011 21:42 gakkgakk wrote:On July 12 2011 21:36 Alric wrote:On July 12 2011 21:33 gakkgakk wrote:On July 12 2011 21:32 Medrea wrote:On July 12 2011 21:29 Snowbear wrote:On July 12 2011 21:27 Medrea wrote:On July 12 2011 21:24 Snowbear wrote:I don't see a possibility to win againt this broodlord infestor combo, unless the terran is much ahead. Ghost are okay but very expensive  200/100 is not expensive. And they have snipe which is good against bio units. Which just so happen to be every single zerg unit and structure. And they have EMP which is good against units with energy or shields, which just so happens to be every protoss unit and structure. They are good! They are good when you got 10 or more. 10 = 2000/1000. You can not just get that if you are not on 4+ bases... Then when you got them, they are not very cost effective, unless you can emp clumped infestors. They will get some snipes off, but broodlords will kill them. Ghosts are awesome against broodlords. Snipe! 10 or more!? Holy crap that is a lot of ghosts. Im not talking about canister rifle DPS you know! Either way. Colossus are 300/200. I dont see the gripe. Ghosts are great against toss. Can be good vs infestors if you manage to get sick EMPs off. For sniping broodlords? Not so much. I disagree, snipe is super effective against broodlords. The range of snipe exceeds the range of brood lords, and it has zero cooldown so broodlords just melt against it. I respectfully disagree. If snipe didnt have energy cost it would be great, but unfortunantely it does cost energy. Also the broodlings makes it difficult for ghosts to get close to the broodlords. Also the zerg will probably have some lings/infestors near the broodlords, making it even harder to get snipes of. Snipe is pretty cheap. It takes about 125 energy to kill a broodlord, so ghosts can generally be at least 1:1 in cost effectiveness. On July 12 2011 21:44 Medrea wrote:On July 12 2011 21:42 gakkgakk wrote:On July 12 2011 21:36 Alric wrote:On July 12 2011 21:33 gakkgakk wrote:On July 12 2011 21:32 Medrea wrote:On July 12 2011 21:29 Snowbear wrote:On July 12 2011 21:27 Medrea wrote:
[quote]
200/100 is not expensive.
And they have snipe which is good against bio units. Which just so happen to be every single zerg unit and structure.
And they have EMP which is good against units with energy or shields, which just so happens to be every protoss unit and structure.
They are good! They are good when you got 10 or more. 10 = 2000/1000. You can not just get that if you are not on 4+ bases... Then when you got them, they are not very cost effective, unless you can emp clumped infestors. They will get some snipes off, but broodlords will kill them. Ghosts are awesome against broodlords. Snipe! 10 or more!? Holy crap that is a lot of ghosts. Im not talking about canister rifle DPS you know! Either way. Colossus are 300/200. I dont see the gripe. Ghosts are great against toss. Can be good vs infestors if you manage to get sick EMPs off. For sniping broodlords? Not so much. I disagree, snipe is super effective against broodlords. The range of snipe exceeds the range of brood lords, and it has zero cooldown so broodlords just melt against it. I respectfully disagree. If snipe didnt have energy cost it would be great, but unfortunantely it does cost energy. Also the broodlings makes it difficult for ghosts to get close to the broodlords. Also the zerg will probably have some lings/infestors near the broodlords, making it even harder to get snipes of. Free snipe. Lol. yeah lets do that. Theres an army next to the ghosts. We're not talking about monobattles! All those hours spent playing 'how many times can you click in a minute' would finally pay off. Unless you get 5 snipes of instantly its 6 snipes afaik. And when trying to snipe broodlords, theres the risk of your ghosts dying to fungal, and getting trapped by lings. Unless ofcourse you cloak, and the zerg doesnt have overseer/you snipe it. So that leaves rather little energy left to use snipe. Im just saying, ghost usage vs broodlord isnt some magic trick that will make tvz imba once terrans start to use it. I don't think it will make Terran imba, but I think it would reach a stage where the player who micro's better will win the battle. Like late game TvP Bio vs Deathball is at. Snipe barely out-ranges fungal growth (I think with the aoe of fungal it can barely hit before snipe, but that would only be one ghost caught) so ghosts can also kill Infestors. edit:Ghosts can also EMP an infestor before its in range to fungal.
In a perfect world yes  But the thing is (atleast for me) once zerg has infestors+broodlords out there is no way to fight it cost effectively. Broodlords negate siege tanks, and with tanks out of the picture, the infestor can negate anything that possibly can threaten the broodlords.
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He stimmed those set of marines like 3 times, each time before it ran out.
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On July 12 2011 21:54 Meancookie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 21:52 Medrea wrote:On July 12 2011 21:50 Dfgj wrote:On July 12 2011 21:49 Medrea wrote:On July 12 2011 21:47 Daralii wrote:On July 12 2011 21:45 Medrea wrote:
Overlords should have a separate really destination from units. Thats like the one real clunky thing left in SC2. Wasn't everyone on TL just complaining that SC2 isn't clunky enough? x_x Well, I am hella against poor control schemes that take away options from the player. Intentionally making a game control terribly is prob the silliest thing you can do. Control should always be granted, never taken away. Same goes for elements that do things automatically, they take control away. Having an overlord rally sends them automatically to another place. Currently, you can manually rally them as eggs, or adjust their path once they spawn. Sounds like control to me. Hmm fair point good sir. Well alright then. Finding said eggs sounds painful. Though. say you have 20larva. you select em, make 5 overlords, rally them somewhere else then you select something random that has nothing to do with hatcheries. you select your hatcheries again, you select your 15 larva remaining and make whatever out of them which you can rally somewhere else it sounds rather complicated but it's not too bad really :p only in the lategame can it become really annoying
Or:
Say you have 20 larvae, you select them, make 5 overlords, ctrl+click on one of the eggs. All eggs are selected. You can individually rally those eggs by shift-deselecting them. Then, you select all your larvae and do whatever you want and rally wherever you want with this, thing is, eggs that will soon become overlords are not selected this time.
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On July 12 2011 21:56 L3g3nd_ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 21:54 Medrea wrote:On July 12 2011 21:52 Ysellian wrote:On July 12 2011 21:49 Medrea wrote:On July 12 2011 21:47 Daralii wrote:On July 12 2011 21:45 Medrea wrote:
Overlords should have a separate really destination from units. Thats like the one real clunky thing left in SC2. Wasn't everyone on TL just complaining that SC2 isn't clunky enough? x_x Well, I am hella against poor control schemes that take away options from the player. Intentionally making a game control terribly is prob the silliest thing you can do. Control should always be granted, never taken away. Same goes for elements that do things automatically, they take control away. Toss can't warp using the Mini map. . I always felt like they should be able to given the space is powered obviously. also toss is the only race that cant macro while watching a battle, which imo is a fairly big disadvantage
Eh, good zergs will inject while watching a battle, much the same thing imo.
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Is this the same losira who was bad at ZvT?
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what just got destroyed in the main?
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TOP stimming his entire army
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
On July 12 2011 21:59 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 21:57 Ysellian wrote:On July 12 2011 21:54 Medrea wrote:On July 12 2011 21:52 Ysellian wrote:On July 12 2011 21:49 Medrea wrote:On July 12 2011 21:47 Daralii wrote:On July 12 2011 21:45 Medrea wrote:
Overlords should have a separate really destination from units. Thats like the one real clunky thing left in SC2. Wasn't everyone on TL just complaining that SC2 isn't clunky enough? x_x Well, I am hella against poor control schemes that take away options from the player. Intentionally making a game control terribly is prob the silliest thing you can do. Control should always be granted, never taken away. Same goes for elements that do things automatically, they take control away. Toss can't warp using the Mini map. . I always felt like they should be able to given the space is powered obviously. I feel the same, but if you look at it from a balance point of perspective it makes sense that some controls are left as they are. Not sure how much a separate really point weighs in that factor, but I'm sure Blizzard have considered. You know that larva statement someone was saying before where you select larva manually and then rally them off to the side while you make other units, is a LOT like warping in and it made me realize that is the APM balancing factor against warping in on screen. Blizzard is so fucking smart soemtimes.
Don't ever let Blizzard hear you say that, They'll throw in a Wrath of the Lich King on us
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On July 12 2011 21:59 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 21:57 Ysellian wrote:On July 12 2011 21:54 Medrea wrote:On July 12 2011 21:52 Ysellian wrote:On July 12 2011 21:49 Medrea wrote:On July 12 2011 21:47 Daralii wrote:On July 12 2011 21:45 Medrea wrote:
Overlords should have a separate really destination from units. Thats like the one real clunky thing left in SC2. Wasn't everyone on TL just complaining that SC2 isn't clunky enough? x_x Well, I am hella against poor control schemes that take away options from the player. Intentionally making a game control terribly is prob the silliest thing you can do. Control should always be granted, never taken away. Same goes for elements that do things automatically, they take control away. Toss can't warp using the Mini map. . I always felt like they should be able to given the space is powered obviously. I feel the same, but if you look at it from a balance point of perspective it makes sense that some controls are left as they are. Not sure how much a separate really point weighs in that factor, but I'm sure Blizzard have considered. You know that larva statement someone was saying before where you select larva manually and then rally them off to the side while you make other units, is a LOT like warping in and it made me realize that is the APM balancing factor against warping in on screen. Blizzard is so fucking smart soemtimes.
eh i wouldn't compare the two. manually selecting then rallying larva at 3+ hatcheries when building overlords in the midst of building other units is a lot more difficult than protoss warp cycles no matter how you look at it
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Losira flies his mutas to TOP's third to try some harass, not dealing too much damage but forcing stims
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On July 12 2011 22:00 Sc2Null wrote:
Is this the same losira who was bad at ZvT?
who actually said this? It's without any foundation srsly -.-
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On July 12 2011 22:00 Alric wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 21:56 L3g3nd_ wrote:On July 12 2011 21:54 Medrea wrote:On July 12 2011 21:52 Ysellian wrote:On July 12 2011 21:49 Medrea wrote:On July 12 2011 21:47 Daralii wrote:On July 12 2011 21:45 Medrea wrote:
Overlords should have a separate really destination from units. Thats like the one real clunky thing left in SC2. Wasn't everyone on TL just complaining that SC2 isn't clunky enough? x_x Well, I am hella against poor control schemes that take away options from the player. Intentionally making a game control terribly is prob the silliest thing you can do. Control should always be granted, never taken away. Same goes for elements that do things automatically, they take control away. Toss can't warp using the Mini map. . I always felt like they should be able to given the space is powered obviously. also toss is the only race that cant macro while watching a battle, which imo is a fairly big disadvantage Eh, good zergs will inject while watching a battle, much the same thing imo.
Injecting can be done a lot faster with the "tab to next base" feature. HDStarcraft has a pretty sweet video showing this.
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EPT
