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On May 31 2011 00:26 Numy wrote:
There's a deposit and he loses the deposit. That's a lot of money. You just want more drama. Stop acting like "oh look he did it then others will do it just because!". You don't know the future, you don't understand human individual behavior and you can't make those assumptions.
The arguement you made is poor because it can used against itself. You also don't know the future or understand human individual behavior either and can't make the assumption that others won't do what he did.
Thus, we need to set the precedent (we can all agree it would have been better for him to play out of his matches). Because we can't predict what people will do, if we don't hold people accountable then it could really hurt the SC2 scene. We are just lucky that this won't hurt much this time.
In fact, that is a good way to sum up my arguement. I don't want more drama, I want less drama, and setting a precedent that what he did is unacceptable may convince others not to do it, and thus we have less drama in the sport and can focus on the important thing: the games. Painuser created the drama, the community should respond appropriately to it. Giving him a free pass, gives others a free pass to create drama too. Again, I don't suggest anything drastic, I only suggest we hold people accountable for their actions.
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On May 31 2011 00:18 Derez wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 23:56 BronzeKnee wrote:
Who cares if it is a one sided beating, you don't see bad NFL or NBA teams just forfeit the rest of their games once it is clear they can't make the playoffs (would ruin the sport if they did), they play the games so people can enjoy them. Upsets are fun to watch.
Painuser is hurting the SC2 scene by not playing. I paid 25 bucks for a pass an HD pass to see games, not see them announce walkovers. I don't think Painuser should ever get another game in the NASL. It was a very selfish move by Painuser, avoiding games he believed he would lost, so he wouldn't waste time.
But in turn, he hurts the NASL and the SC2 scene in general. If the players want E-Sports taken seriously, then they need to take the game and the scene seriously. Oh come on. If he decided to stop playing professionally and focus on other things (SC2 related or not), that's his choice. Forcing someone to play isn't going to lead anywhere, it will lead to terrible, demotivating, one-sided games absolutely noone is going to enjoy watching. Better to say enough is enough and just call it quits instead of continuing on. His team fell apart, he doesn't want to continue, and there's nothing in his contract forcing him to play. Why on earth would you frame this as 'it is bad for e-sports!', what's bad for e-sports is people holding on to NASL spots while there are others that are more deserving of their spots.
Well, it makes sense to say it's bad for esports because it does highlight one of the major shortcomings of the "professional" gaming scene. You would never expect a to hear in a high-profile sports event that one of the athletes decided not to show up, having other priorities. To maintain the integrity of tournaments, you have to trust that people will show up and everyone involved will take the tournament seriously. Just think about it. Apart from a growing popularity of the game, what allows for the many leagues that have popped up recently? The fact that there is a big enough pool of players who are able to put Starcraft highly enough to commit to such tournaments and play at whichever odd time would be required of them. Many more players are able to do that today because there is pretty good money flowing through the scene. However, whenever there is a forfeit, it simply shows that we are not quite there yet.
It's not about forcing him to play. It's about PainUser feeling a natural obligation due to his prior commitment, knowing that what "sacrifice" he would make to honour it would be limited (ie. the league doesn't run for several months from now; it's only a few matches). He could play and provide entertainment, regardless of whether he felt like playing or not. That said, we do not know his motivation for not playing (well, we might, haven't checked for further details), so we are not in any position to complain. Still, I feel it's important to point out that it's not a simply matter of "you shouldn't play if you don't want to". It's a matter of integrity and responsibility, and I assume that PainUser's options will have weighed heavily on him.
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did painuser himself say anything about the nasl matter? O.o
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* the deposit is not enough money apparently
* the tournament could be designed better--why have players still play games when they know they're out already?
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On May 31 2011 00:48 dizzy101 wrote:
* the tournament could be designed better--why have players still play games when they know they're out already?
I think so Asjo said it well, it comes down to responsibility and intergrity. It is also the honorable thing for Painuser to do. When you commit to something, see it through, unless you absolutely cannot or would suffer needlessly from it. Apparently, the NASL just wasn't worth the time for him.
I think the end of an season in professional sports is fun to watch, the "bad teams" have a chance to effect the ranking (and often do) of the "good teams." Big upsets are exciting for fans, and to be robbed of the possibility of them, is a shame.
So I don't think the tournament is designed poorly, the players just need to be held accountable and take it seriously.
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On May 31 2011 00:29 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2011 00:26 Numy wrote:
There's a deposit and he loses the deposit. That's a lot of money. You just want more drama. Stop acting like "oh look he did it then others will do it just because!". You don't know the future, you don't understand human individual behavior and you can't make those assumptions. The arguement you made is poor because it can used against itself. You also don't know the future or understand human individual behavior either and can't make the assumption that others won't do what he did. Thus, we need to set the precedent (we can all agree it would have been better for him to play out of his matches). Because we can't predict what people will do, if we don't hold people accountable then it could really hurt the SC2 scene. We are just lucky that this won't hurt much this time. In fact, that is a good way to sum up my arguement. I don't want more drama, I want less drama, and setting a precedent that what he did is unacceptable may convince others not to do it, and thus we have less drama in the sport and can focus on the important thing: the games. Painuser created the drama, the community should respond appropriately to it. Giving him a free pass, gives others a free pass to create drama too. Again, I don't suggest anything drastic, I only suggest we hold people accountable for their actions.
Ok let me put my thoughts down. There is a deposit money. There are people who will see this happening and think "well I'm not going to be a fan of him anymore". Invitationals might look at this and go "well he couldn't even commit to this league so why would he commit here". There's tons of downsides for what happened. He's already been hurt. There's circumstances greater than the potential damage that means he has taken this route. You are advocating going outside of these damages and intentionally taking him out and saying "Ban this man from xyz or some other likewise punishment." Yet aren't looking at all the external factors around the case. He seems to have too much on his plate and cannot handle all of it so he's backing down from some of those responsibilities. This hurts him regardless of what other punishment you want. Isn't that enough?
Will a pro player who has his teams, sponsors and fans support intentionally forsake that to drop out just because he doesn't want to play the remainder of the games? It could happen but he/she will be hurt by it and might cause way more damage than ever playing it. Will a person who is moving away from playing the game at a pro level and has too many responsibilities drop out? Well we seeing that happen. The two cases are different. In fact this is assuming what happened. We don't know the full story so there could be more external factors.
If for SC2 to grow and become mainstream we have to lose our humanity then I want no part of it. These are still people. People have lives and make mistakes. Sometimes things change in life. If this is the route we going then I feel very sad. Competitive gaming used to be a tight knit group who cried together, had fun together and understood each other. I guess with growth we lose all those aspects and become the mob.
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On May 31 2011 00:48 dizzy101 wrote:
* the tournament could be designed better--why have players still play games when they know they're out already?
Did you not think this through at all? A player deciding not to play 2 or 3 games because he has no chance if making it doesn't just affect him, it affects whoever he was supposed to play against, and by that who he already has played against. Whether or not it will actually have any effect on the table this time is irrelevant, it sets a precedent.
He's 0-6, but the people he played actually had to beat him to get that win. The people he has left won't. Theoretically that could change the whole race. It probably won't this time, but again, that's irrelevant.
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On May 31 2011 00:02 BronzeKnee wrote:
Painuser needs to understand this, and what he has done is robbed fans of games. He should be made an example of, so other players don't do the same.
YEA , Let's spit in his face and crucify him! Or , we can grow up and wish him good luck with the rest of his life and whatever he wants to do with his life...
I still like the guy , and do wish him well with whatever he's doing at the moment ( IGN? ).
You can't force players to do something ( unless you have a contract ) , and it seems , in this system , players are free to quit whenever they want. On the other hand , organizations are also free to consider this and not invite those players in their future tournaments. Just take it easy guys...
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Painuser once again showing that, he isn't capable of competing at a top level. Also showing the fans he has how much of an dick and bad sport he is. Most undeserving scrub to ever get a shot at competing with the big boys. GL HF getting stomped at MLG.
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I agree with not hating on PainUser. Why? Because he'll naturally get his comeuppance when he's not chosen to participate in any more tournaments like the NASL. I wish him luck with whatever he's trying, but I won't feel any sympathy for him if he comes to regret his skipping matches if it bites him in the ass in the future.
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On May 31 2011 01:14 HolyArrow wrote:
...he'll naturally get his comeuppance when he's not chosen to participate in any more tournaments like the NASL. I wish him luck with whatever he's trying, but I won't feel any sympathy for him if he comes to regret his skipping matches if it bites him in the ass in the future.
Pretty much. Then again, I would never expect him to contend in the first place. It's his choice in the end.
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On May 31 2011 00:59 Nimic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2011 00:48 dizzy101 wrote:
* the tournament could be designed better--why have players still play games when they know they're out already? Did you not think this through at all? A player deciding not to play 2 or 3 games because he has no chance if making it doesn't just affect him, it affects whoever he was supposed to play against, and by that who he already has played against. Whether or not it will actually have any effect on the table this time is irrelevant, it sets a precedent. He's 0-6, but the people he played actually had to beat him to get that win. The people he has left won't. Theoretically that could change the whole race. It probably won't this time, but again, that's irrelevant.
There is still the fact that the people that had to beat him before had to beat a guy that was trying his hardest, but the people he would face now would have to beat a guy that doesn't have any chances of winning, even if he played, it's hard to consider him winning, harder than the first weeks. It's the same for several players.
It's hard to deny his is a problem in this style of tournament, it's the same for several other sports, but I believe is pretty big in SC2, where preparation for a specific match is really important.
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pff gotta hate whoever is controlling the camera, missing a lot
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Gogo Sen fighting ~~
Damn, those Hellions didn't do much damage; zerglings too fast!
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whos the dude casting with gretorp now?
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Hahah wow that interview with Sen was hilarious
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sen is great hahah :D
so qt: sry for my engrish
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EPT
