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[NASL] Day 5-4 - Page 55

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Games are going on, no caster talk in the LR thread please.
jdseemoreglass
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States3773 Posts
May 15 2011 03:59 GMT
#1081
On May 15 2011 12:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2011 12:52 jdseemoreglass wrote:
Over and over I ask myself why this map is in the pool. There is simply no real answer to forcefields.


Because air units, backdoors, drops, and massive units don't exist


Exactly. Going mutas against mass blink stalkers is nothing but idiotic. The only massive unit is ultras, which always implies terrible position and a near-maxed protoss. Backdoors can't be accessed when the map is split in half.

Drops are the only real option.... they rely on either your opponent not defending well enough, or not being able to efficiently base trade.
"If you want this forum to be full of half-baked philosophy discussions between pompous faggots like yourself forever, stay the course captain vanilla" - FakeSteve[TPR], 2006
CosmicSpiral
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States15275 Posts
May 15 2011 03:59 GMT
#1082
On May 15 2011 12:58 Hollis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2011 12:54 namedplayer wrote:
dunno why zerg lose to protoss.. just play like Nestea


Thing is, when you try to play like Nestea against an actual good Toss you just get rolled.

Catz is fun to watch, he's the TLO of zerg, but for all his creativity it just feels so flimsy that it ends up frustrating me to no end when he loses and makes his race look bad.

Oh, and can someone tell Gretorp that trying to use big words and failing makes him look like an idiot? Brevity is the soul of wit, damnit.


I guess that why Nestea's ZvP is so good right?
WriterWovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
Magnus Strongchest
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia89 Posts
May 15 2011 03:59 GMT
#1083
'There's not anything wrong with bunker rushes, they're just too good.'
So many great quotes from Idra today.
JoeSchmoe
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada2058 Posts
May 15 2011 04:00 GMT
#1084
On May 15 2011 12:59 Tracedragon wrote:
"There's nothing wrong with bunker rushes, except that they're way too good."
LOL IDRA.


lmao "WE ONLY GET 75% BACK NOW"
ffadicted
Profile Joined January 2011
United States3545 Posts
May 15 2011 04:00 GMT
#1085
So is ok to say the map is imbalanced randomly, but 98 games where zerg holds a winning rate in every matchup is "not a big enough sample size"? lol give me a break
SooYoung-Noona!
Hollis
Profile Joined January 2011
United States505 Posts
May 15 2011 04:00 GMT
#1086
On May 15 2011 12:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2011 12:52 jdseemoreglass wrote:
Over and over I ask myself why this map is in the pool. There is simply no real answer to forcefields.


Because air units, backdoors, drops, and massive units don't exist


None of those things are viable in ZvP; at best they're risky with minor potential payoffs.
zawk9
Profile Joined March 2011
United States427 Posts
May 15 2011 04:01 GMT
#1087
gogo Ret!
there's a bug in the new patch where the other player keeps killing all my dudes.. please nerf this
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44367 Posts
May 15 2011 04:01 GMT
#1088
I want to see super-fast bunker pressure from Select. That micro...
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
zestzorb
Profile Joined August 2010
Thailand776 Posts
May 15 2011 04:01 GMT
#1089
On May 15 2011 12:55 Serpico wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2011 12:54 ffadicted wrote:
On May 15 2011 12:52 jdseemoreglass wrote:
Over and over I ask myself why this map is in the pool. There is simply no real answer to forcefields.


International:

TvZ: 20-23 (46.5%)
ZvP: 21-14 (60%)

Korean:

TvZ: 4-5 (44.4%)
ZvP: 6-5 (54.5%)

Zerg holds a winning record in every matchup in basically every league in that map. Can we drop the bullshit Zerg vs. Crossfire line of thought? There are more maps in the pool that are shitty for terran than for zerg.

When you get a bigger sample size over a longer period of time, sure.


The stats is not enough to conclude that Z has no disadvantage on this map, but I think we could observe how 50ish percent of Z managed to overcome their opponents on this map. Any good Z will incorporate those strategies with their gameplay.
Jyvblamo
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada13788 Posts
May 15 2011 04:01 GMT
#1090
On May 15 2011 13:00 Hollis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2011 12:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 15 2011 12:52 jdseemoreglass wrote:
Over and over I ask myself why this map is in the pool. There is simply no real answer to forcefields.


Because air units, backdoors, drops, and massive units don't exist


None of those things are viable in ZvP; at best they're risky with minor potential payoffs.

Catz doesn't give a fuck about what is viable or not
Hollis
Profile Joined January 2011
United States505 Posts
May 15 2011 04:02 GMT
#1091
On May 15 2011 12:59 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2011 12:58 Hollis wrote:
On May 15 2011 12:54 namedplayer wrote:
dunno why zerg lose to protoss.. just play like Nestea


Thing is, when you try to play like Nestea against an actual good Toss you just get rolled.

Catz is fun to watch, he's the TLO of zerg, but for all his creativity it just feels so flimsy that it ends up frustrating me to no end when he loses and makes his race look bad.

Oh, and can someone tell Gretorp that trying to use big words and failing makes him look like an idiot? Brevity is the soul of wit, damnit.


I guess that why Nestea's ZvP is so good right?


Nestea's ZvP looked good in the GSL finals because Inca isn't GSL finals material. Put Nestea up against someone like MC or Squirtle and we'll see how good his ZvP is.
Olinim
Profile Joined March 2011
4044 Posts
May 15 2011 04:02 GMT
#1092
Idra really needs to pay a bit more attention to the production tab, last game he was saying Catz was all in for 2 mins as he was making 9 drones.
mholden02
Profile Joined October 2010
387 Posts
May 15 2011 04:02 GMT
#1093
Thing is, when you try to play like Nestea against an actual good Toss you just get rolled.


Seriously? When u emulate Nestea you get rolled? Nestea, the GodZerg? I don't think you've thought that statement through.
Hollis
Profile Joined January 2011
United States505 Posts
May 15 2011 04:03 GMT
#1094
On May 15 2011 13:01 Jyvblamo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2011 13:00 Hollis wrote:
On May 15 2011 12:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 15 2011 12:52 jdseemoreglass wrote:
Over and over I ask myself why this map is in the pool. There is simply no real answer to forcefields.


Because air units, backdoors, drops, and massive units don't exist


None of those things are viable in ZvP; at best they're risky with minor potential payoffs.

Catz doesn't give a fuck about what is viable or not


And we love him for it :3
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44367 Posts
May 15 2011 04:03 GMT
#1095
On May 15 2011 13:00 Hollis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2011 12:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 15 2011 12:52 jdseemoreglass wrote:
Over and over I ask myself why this map is in the pool. There is simply no real answer to forcefields.


Because air units, backdoors, drops, and massive units don't exist


None of those things are viable in ZvP; at best they're risky with minor potential payoffs.


Then you don't know how to play ZvP. Multi-pronged attacks are exactly how Zerg is supposed to be played. Zerg doesn't do deathball.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Mailing
Profile Joined March 2011
United States3087 Posts
May 15 2011 04:03 GMT
#1096
On May 15 2011 12:59 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2011 12:58 Hollis wrote:
On May 15 2011 12:54 namedplayer wrote:
dunno why zerg lose to protoss.. just play like Nestea


Thing is, when you try to play like Nestea against an actual good Toss you just get rolled.

Catz is fun to watch, he's the TLO of zerg, but for all his creativity it just feels so flimsy that it ends up frustrating me to no end when he loses and makes his race look bad.

Oh, and can someone tell Gretorp that trying to use big words and failing makes him look like an idiot? Brevity is the soul of wit, damnit.


I guess that why Nestea's ZvP is so good right?


His ZvP looks good because he really only plays Anypro, Inca, Choya, and SangHo
Are you hurting ESPORTS? Find out today - http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=232866
Moonwrath
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States9568 Posts
May 15 2011 04:03 GMT
#1097
On May 15 2011 13:01 zestzorb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2011 12:55 Serpico wrote:
On May 15 2011 12:54 ffadicted wrote:
On May 15 2011 12:52 jdseemoreglass wrote:
Over and over I ask myself why this map is in the pool. There is simply no real answer to forcefields.


International:

TvZ: 20-23 (46.5%)
ZvP: 21-14 (60%)

Korean:

TvZ: 4-5 (44.4%)
ZvP: 6-5 (54.5%)

Zerg holds a winning record in every matchup in basically every league in that map. Can we drop the bullshit Zerg vs. Crossfire line of thought? There are more maps in the pool that are shitty for terran than for zerg.

When you get a bigger sample size over a longer period of time, sure.


The stats is not enough to conclude that Z has no disadvantage on this map, but I think we could observe how 50ish percent of Z managed to overcome their opponents on this map. Any good Z will incorporate those strategies with their gameplay.

Well considering the counter argument is "Crossfire is imbalanced against Zerg" you have to show at least SOME evidence for that statement. Unfortunately you can't because the only evidence available shows a favorable win % for Zerg. Sorry, but the "map is balanced" argument wins here.
화이탱!! @moonsoshi9
ffadicted
Profile Joined January 2011
United States3545 Posts
May 15 2011 04:04 GMT
#1098
Ret is a retarded amount ahead, omg
SooYoung-Noona!
Wipples
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada269 Posts
May 15 2011 04:04 GMT
#1099
On May 15 2011 13:02 Hollis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2011 12:59 CosmicSpiral wrote:
On May 15 2011 12:58 Hollis wrote:
On May 15 2011 12:54 namedplayer wrote:
dunno why zerg lose to protoss.. just play like Nestea


Thing is, when you try to play like Nestea against an actual good Toss you just get rolled.

Catz is fun to watch, he's the TLO of zerg, but for all his creativity it just feels so flimsy that it ends up frustrating me to no end when he loses and makes his race look bad.

Oh, and can someone tell Gretorp that trying to use big words and failing makes him look like an idiot? Brevity is the soul of wit, damnit.


I guess that why Nestea's ZvP is so good right?


Nestea's ZvP looked good in the GSL finals because Inca isn't GSL finals material. Put Nestea up against someone like MC or Squirtle and we'll see how good his ZvP is.

Nesteas record V. Toss for the gsl was 17-3. Id say his ZvP is pretty fantastic.
Tracedragon
Profile Joined December 2010
United States948 Posts
May 15 2011 04:04 GMT
#1100
Love Ret's play. :D
Do the impossible, see the invisible. Row, row, fight the power!
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