• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 14:37
CET 20:37
KST 04:37
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)15Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1831
StarCraft 2
General
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Stellar Fest "01" Jersey Charity Auction Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets When will we find out if there are more tournament SC2 Spotted on the EWC 2026 list?
Tourneys
OSC Season 13 World Championship SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone Potential ASL qualifier breakthroughs?
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Mechabellum Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Physical Exercise (HIIT) Bef…
TrAiDoS
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2462 users

[NASL] Day 5-4 - Page 55

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 53 54 55 56 57 69 Next
Games are going on, no caster talk in the LR thread please.
jdseemoreglass
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States3773 Posts
May 15 2011 03:59 GMT
#1081
On May 15 2011 12:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2011 12:52 jdseemoreglass wrote:
Over and over I ask myself why this map is in the pool. There is simply no real answer to forcefields.


Because air units, backdoors, drops, and massive units don't exist


Exactly. Going mutas against mass blink stalkers is nothing but idiotic. The only massive unit is ultras, which always implies terrible position and a near-maxed protoss. Backdoors can't be accessed when the map is split in half.

Drops are the only real option.... they rely on either your opponent not defending well enough, or not being able to efficiently base trade.
"If you want this forum to be full of half-baked philosophy discussions between pompous faggots like yourself forever, stay the course captain vanilla" - FakeSteve[TPR], 2006
CosmicSpiral
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States15275 Posts
May 15 2011 03:59 GMT
#1082
On May 15 2011 12:58 Hollis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2011 12:54 namedplayer wrote:
dunno why zerg lose to protoss.. just play like Nestea


Thing is, when you try to play like Nestea against an actual good Toss you just get rolled.

Catz is fun to watch, he's the TLO of zerg, but for all his creativity it just feels so flimsy that it ends up frustrating me to no end when he loses and makes his race look bad.

Oh, and can someone tell Gretorp that trying to use big words and failing makes him look like an idiot? Brevity is the soul of wit, damnit.


I guess that why Nestea's ZvP is so good right?
WriterWovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
Magnus Strongchest
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia89 Posts
May 15 2011 03:59 GMT
#1083
'There's not anything wrong with bunker rushes, they're just too good.'
So many great quotes from Idra today.
JoeSchmoe
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada2058 Posts
May 15 2011 04:00 GMT
#1084
On May 15 2011 12:59 Tracedragon wrote:
"There's nothing wrong with bunker rushes, except that they're way too good."
LOL IDRA.


lmao "WE ONLY GET 75% BACK NOW"
ffadicted
Profile Joined January 2011
United States3545 Posts
May 15 2011 04:00 GMT
#1085
So is ok to say the map is imbalanced randomly, but 98 games where zerg holds a winning rate in every matchup is "not a big enough sample size"? lol give me a break
SooYoung-Noona!
Hollis
Profile Joined January 2011
United States505 Posts
May 15 2011 04:00 GMT
#1086
On May 15 2011 12:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2011 12:52 jdseemoreglass wrote:
Over and over I ask myself why this map is in the pool. There is simply no real answer to forcefields.


Because air units, backdoors, drops, and massive units don't exist


None of those things are viable in ZvP; at best they're risky with minor potential payoffs.
zawk9
Profile Joined March 2011
United States427 Posts
May 15 2011 04:01 GMT
#1087
gogo Ret!
there's a bug in the new patch where the other player keeps killing all my dudes.. please nerf this
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45215 Posts
May 15 2011 04:01 GMT
#1088
I want to see super-fast bunker pressure from Select. That micro...
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
zestzorb
Profile Joined August 2010
Thailand776 Posts
May 15 2011 04:01 GMT
#1089
On May 15 2011 12:55 Serpico wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2011 12:54 ffadicted wrote:
On May 15 2011 12:52 jdseemoreglass wrote:
Over and over I ask myself why this map is in the pool. There is simply no real answer to forcefields.


International:

TvZ: 20-23 (46.5%)
ZvP: 21-14 (60%)

Korean:

TvZ: 4-5 (44.4%)
ZvP: 6-5 (54.5%)

Zerg holds a winning record in every matchup in basically every league in that map. Can we drop the bullshit Zerg vs. Crossfire line of thought? There are more maps in the pool that are shitty for terran than for zerg.

When you get a bigger sample size over a longer period of time, sure.


The stats is not enough to conclude that Z has no disadvantage on this map, but I think we could observe how 50ish percent of Z managed to overcome their opponents on this map. Any good Z will incorporate those strategies with their gameplay.
Jyvblamo
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada13788 Posts
May 15 2011 04:01 GMT
#1090
On May 15 2011 13:00 Hollis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2011 12:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 15 2011 12:52 jdseemoreglass wrote:
Over and over I ask myself why this map is in the pool. There is simply no real answer to forcefields.


Because air units, backdoors, drops, and massive units don't exist


None of those things are viable in ZvP; at best they're risky with minor potential payoffs.

Catz doesn't give a fuck about what is viable or not
Hollis
Profile Joined January 2011
United States505 Posts
May 15 2011 04:02 GMT
#1091
On May 15 2011 12:59 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2011 12:58 Hollis wrote:
On May 15 2011 12:54 namedplayer wrote:
dunno why zerg lose to protoss.. just play like Nestea


Thing is, when you try to play like Nestea against an actual good Toss you just get rolled.

Catz is fun to watch, he's the TLO of zerg, but for all his creativity it just feels so flimsy that it ends up frustrating me to no end when he loses and makes his race look bad.

Oh, and can someone tell Gretorp that trying to use big words and failing makes him look like an idiot? Brevity is the soul of wit, damnit.


I guess that why Nestea's ZvP is so good right?


Nestea's ZvP looked good in the GSL finals because Inca isn't GSL finals material. Put Nestea up against someone like MC or Squirtle and we'll see how good his ZvP is.
Olinim
Profile Joined March 2011
4044 Posts
May 15 2011 04:02 GMT
#1092
Idra really needs to pay a bit more attention to the production tab, last game he was saying Catz was all in for 2 mins as he was making 9 drones.
mholden02
Profile Joined October 2010
387 Posts
May 15 2011 04:02 GMT
#1093
Thing is, when you try to play like Nestea against an actual good Toss you just get rolled.


Seriously? When u emulate Nestea you get rolled? Nestea, the GodZerg? I don't think you've thought that statement through.
Hollis
Profile Joined January 2011
United States505 Posts
May 15 2011 04:03 GMT
#1094
On May 15 2011 13:01 Jyvblamo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2011 13:00 Hollis wrote:
On May 15 2011 12:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 15 2011 12:52 jdseemoreglass wrote:
Over and over I ask myself why this map is in the pool. There is simply no real answer to forcefields.


Because air units, backdoors, drops, and massive units don't exist


None of those things are viable in ZvP; at best they're risky with minor potential payoffs.

Catz doesn't give a fuck about what is viable or not


And we love him for it :3
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45215 Posts
May 15 2011 04:03 GMT
#1095
On May 15 2011 13:00 Hollis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2011 12:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On May 15 2011 12:52 jdseemoreglass wrote:
Over and over I ask myself why this map is in the pool. There is simply no real answer to forcefields.


Because air units, backdoors, drops, and massive units don't exist


None of those things are viable in ZvP; at best they're risky with minor potential payoffs.


Then you don't know how to play ZvP. Multi-pronged attacks are exactly how Zerg is supposed to be played. Zerg doesn't do deathball.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Mailing
Profile Joined March 2011
United States3087 Posts
May 15 2011 04:03 GMT
#1096
On May 15 2011 12:59 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2011 12:58 Hollis wrote:
On May 15 2011 12:54 namedplayer wrote:
dunno why zerg lose to protoss.. just play like Nestea


Thing is, when you try to play like Nestea against an actual good Toss you just get rolled.

Catz is fun to watch, he's the TLO of zerg, but for all his creativity it just feels so flimsy that it ends up frustrating me to no end when he loses and makes his race look bad.

Oh, and can someone tell Gretorp that trying to use big words and failing makes him look like an idiot? Brevity is the soul of wit, damnit.


I guess that why Nestea's ZvP is so good right?


His ZvP looks good because he really only plays Anypro, Inca, Choya, and SangHo
Are you hurting ESPORTS? Find out today - http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=232866
Moonwrath
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States9568 Posts
May 15 2011 04:03 GMT
#1097
On May 15 2011 13:01 zestzorb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2011 12:55 Serpico wrote:
On May 15 2011 12:54 ffadicted wrote:
On May 15 2011 12:52 jdseemoreglass wrote:
Over and over I ask myself why this map is in the pool. There is simply no real answer to forcefields.


International:

TvZ: 20-23 (46.5%)
ZvP: 21-14 (60%)

Korean:

TvZ: 4-5 (44.4%)
ZvP: 6-5 (54.5%)

Zerg holds a winning record in every matchup in basically every league in that map. Can we drop the bullshit Zerg vs. Crossfire line of thought? There are more maps in the pool that are shitty for terran than for zerg.

When you get a bigger sample size over a longer period of time, sure.


The stats is not enough to conclude that Z has no disadvantage on this map, but I think we could observe how 50ish percent of Z managed to overcome their opponents on this map. Any good Z will incorporate those strategies with their gameplay.

Well considering the counter argument is "Crossfire is imbalanced against Zerg" you have to show at least SOME evidence for that statement. Unfortunately you can't because the only evidence available shows a favorable win % for Zerg. Sorry, but the "map is balanced" argument wins here.
화이탱!! @moonsoshi9
ffadicted
Profile Joined January 2011
United States3545 Posts
May 15 2011 04:04 GMT
#1098
Ret is a retarded amount ahead, omg
SooYoung-Noona!
Wipples
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada269 Posts
May 15 2011 04:04 GMT
#1099
On May 15 2011 13:02 Hollis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2011 12:59 CosmicSpiral wrote:
On May 15 2011 12:58 Hollis wrote:
On May 15 2011 12:54 namedplayer wrote:
dunno why zerg lose to protoss.. just play like Nestea


Thing is, when you try to play like Nestea against an actual good Toss you just get rolled.

Catz is fun to watch, he's the TLO of zerg, but for all his creativity it just feels so flimsy that it ends up frustrating me to no end when he loses and makes his race look bad.

Oh, and can someone tell Gretorp that trying to use big words and failing makes him look like an idiot? Brevity is the soul of wit, damnit.


I guess that why Nestea's ZvP is so good right?


Nestea's ZvP looked good in the GSL finals because Inca isn't GSL finals material. Put Nestea up against someone like MC or Squirtle and we'll see how good his ZvP is.

Nesteas record V. Toss for the gsl was 17-3. Id say his ZvP is pretty fantastic.
Tracedragon
Profile Joined December 2010
United States948 Posts
May 15 2011 04:04 GMT
#1100
Love Ret's play. :D
Do the impossible, see the invisible. Row, row, fight the power!
Prev 1 53 54 55 56 57 69 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 16h 23m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 318
UpATreeSC 134
IndyStarCraft 124
BRAT_OK 113
JuggernautJason54
SC2Nice 39
MindelVK 26
Railgan 5
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 2058
Shuttle 624
Dewaltoss 152
firebathero 84
Killer 38
910 21
HiyA 17
ivOry 9
NaDa 7
Dota 2
qojqva3041
League of Legends
rGuardiaN19
Counter-Strike
fl0m3401
pashabiceps1674
byalli249
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu384
Other Games
Grubby2948
Liquid`RaSZi2039
FrodaN1651
Fnx 1413
Fuzer 306
ArmadaUGS167
Hui .111
QueenE96
KnowMe86
XaKoH 78
Mew2King52
DeMusliM42
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2600
StarCraft 2
angryscii 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 16
• HerbMon 12
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis3081
• Shiphtur461
Other Games
• imaqtpie1309
Upcoming Events
OSC
16h 23m
SKillous vs ArT
ArT vs Babymarine
NightMare vs TriGGeR
YoungYakov vs TBD
All Star Teams
1d 6h
INnoVation vs soO
Serral vs herO
Cure vs Solar
sOs vs Scarlett
Classic vs Clem
Reynor vs Maru
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 16h
AI Arena Tournament
2 days
All Star Teams
2 days
MMA vs DongRaeGu
Rogue vs Oliveira
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
OSC
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-14
Big Gabe Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W4
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
Nations Cup 2026
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.