I, for one, think Cruncher is a man of the people. He clearly proxy gates in an attempt to get the game over as soon as possible for the benefit of the spectators that hate PvP.
...cruncher lost the battle and is down 8 collosus. Kind of a strange decision from cruncher there, considering he's the one who initiated the fight. White-Ra's got this game now
<3 the music lolol but seriously the pair of them look way less awkward than before and pretty relaxed. Hopefully they'll synergize better in the future, still not making me smile/laugh much.
On April 29 2011 10:26 lucasesper wrote: I was watching IPL. JustinTV, 12k viewers, High-quality stream, zero lag, beautiful sound, 0 USD.
During the break, I switch to NASL. 7k viewers, JustinTV, 240p, lags as hell, freezes completely during last battle, 20USD.
You forgot that NASL has WhiteRa on it with qxc coming up against iNcontrol! Way better than whoever is on IPL, imo. I'm also not getting any lag, personally.
On April 29 2011 10:27 MyRealityQ wrote: <3 the music lolol but seriously the pair of them look way less awkward than before and pretty relaxed. Hopefully they'll synergize better in the future, still not making me smile/laugh much.
they had me laughing pretty hard last night. they've gotten tons better.
When Gretorp means "Go home, you have about 15 mins.." I'm sure iNcontroL is standing aside watching all of this action. You think iNcontroL would at least get a couple hours of practice games in before playing his NASL match.
On April 29 2011 10:26 lucasesper wrote: I was watching IPL. JustinTV, 12k viewers, High-quality stream, zero lag, beautiful sound, 0 USD.
During the break, I switch to NASL. 7k viewers, JustinTV, 240p, lags as hell, freezes completely during last battle, 20USD.
You forgot that NASL has WhiteRa on it with qxc coming up against iNcontrol! Way better than whoever is on IPL, imo. I'm also not getting any lag, personally.
Agreed, i'm hardly lagging
and to be fair, there were 24 collosi on the field! i'll allow that lag
White-ra is amazing. Doesn't matter if everything's stacked against him, he's just good enough to do the little things like fantastic positioning, and just seems to know how to react to everything.
On April 29 2011 10:28 Helluva wrote: When Gretorp means "Go home, you have about 15 mins.." I'm sure iNcontroL is standing aside watching all of this action. You think iNcontroL would at least get a couple hours of practice games in before playing his NASL match.
I love how Gretorp and Incontrol and developing as a casting duo. Gretorp gives himself such a hard time for not being able to keep up with InControl all the time, but what he doesn't realize is this makes him an ideal straight man. Combine that with akward race-based banter and you have a nice level of entertainment on top of the SC2.
On April 29 2011 10:28 Helluva wrote: When Gretorp means "Go home, you have about 15 mins.." I'm sure iNcontroL is standing aside watching all of this action. You think iNcontroL would at least get a couple hours of practice games in before playing his NASL match.
o_O
Isn't this all pre-recorded anyway?
Indeed it is, but I feel that iNcontroL either played earlier than these set games, or possibly last. Not necessarily in order as it's previewing now.
On April 29 2011 10:28 Helluva wrote: When Gretorp means "Go home, you have about 15 mins.." I'm sure iNcontroL is standing aside watching all of this action. You think iNcontroL would at least get a couple hours of practice games in before playing his NASL match.
o_O
Isn't this all pre-recorded anyway?
Indeed it is, but I feel that iNcontroL either played earlier than these set games, or possibly last. Not necessarily in order as it's previewing now.
On April 29 2011 10:26 lucasesper wrote: I was watching IPL. JustinTV, 12k viewers, High-quality stream, zero lag, beautiful sound, 0 USD.
During the break, I switch to NASL. 7k viewers, JustinTV, 240p, lags as hell, freezes completely during last battle, 20USD.
Completely agree. Very unfortunate that the vast majority of both players and casters on IPL is unwatchable garbage.
meow!
Seriously though--loving what the NASL promises, 5 days/week 3~ hours/day of high level Starcraft. Once they can stream on their own servers it'll be like online espn for sc2
Since ur reading inc, how come you didn't go up his ramp while force fielding his ramp just sniping whatever you can. Were you unsure of what he had in his base or what was your reasoning? Just got the feeling you could've crippled him so insanely much.
Qxc taking his third before iNcontrol starts his. With those double starports and the third he should be able to power out vikings with attack to shred the Colossi of iNc.
Edit: And just took out a huge number of phoenixes after the drop.
Too many vikings really, or rather, way to small ground army. Good decisionmaking by inc to walk into qxc's main! Could've focused buildings better, but im sure he was busy defending drops and macroing so can't really blame him for that wp
Very well-played by incontrol. I think QXC didn't have enough ground army to kill off the gateway units, so the colossus traded with vikings and phoenixes helped clean up and the ground armies traded favorably to incontrol.
I'm getting pretty tired of hearing casters repeat after every single game "I think we needed to see more drops to win." It's the go-to explanation for any protoss win. "He didn't drop enough."
Are drops good? Of course. But they never really do that much damage, and when protoss finally decides to move out, you are gonna have your army split up and weaker.
On April 29 2011 10:52 jdseemoreglass wrote: I'm getting pretty tired of hearing casters repeat after every single game "I think we needed to see more drops to win." It's the go-to explanation for any protoss win. "He didn't drop enough."
Are drops good? Of course. But they never really do that much damage, and when protoss finally decides to move out, you are gonna have your army split up and weaker.
Not to mention that once phoenix were out drops are a pretty poor idea. qxc got fairly lucky with the first drop by intercepting and killing a few phoenix with Vikings, but still lost his medivacs and all his troops.
Yeah, he needed not to let the protoss to get on 4 bases to win. That was a pretty lame game. If this wasn't incontrol people would be bitching about them sitting back and maxing then having one engagement end the game.
On April 29 2011 10:55 RajaF wrote: Yeah, he needed not to let the protoss to get on 4 bases to win. That was a pretty lame game. If this wasn't incontrol people would be bitching about them sitting back and maxing then having one engagement end the game.
I don't think we watched the same game. Incontrol was very active with his army especially in the beginning.
On April 29 2011 10:55 RajaF wrote: Yeah, he needed not to let the protoss to get on 4 bases to win. That was a pretty lame game. If this wasn't incontrol people would be bitching about them sitting back and maxing then having one engagement end the game.
What do you suggest against a player like QXC? Everyone knows QXC loves to drop, likes to be aggressive, likes to counter attack, and do crazy shit.
If incontrol committed too hard to aggresssion earlier, he could've put himself in a position where QXC can shine, aka multitasking many drops.
Beautiful play be qxc. Would have preferred HT to 2star pheonix production, but once they were built all the gas is tied up. Quite well played by both players, qxc was just beastly in the big engagements.
The big engagements were almost the same compositions in game 1 and 2, the difference was (as Gretorp said) that QXC didn't engage with his bio until after he suicided his vikings to snipe the colossi. Unlike in game1, the colossi hardly fired a single shot in game 2.
Gretorp a bit of a mistake thinking that the zealots getting picked off while warping was a blunder, Geoff's stalkers were firing that whole time, zealots are meant to be killed so stalkers can shoot.
On April 29 2011 11:20 ComusLoM wrote: Gretorp a bit of a mistake thinking that the zealots getting picked off while warping was a blunder, Geoff's stalkers were firing that whole time, zealots are meant to be killed so stalkers can shoot.
only the few front stalkers were firing, the choke was long enough that the back stalkers weren't shooting.
On April 29 2011 11:20 ComusLoM wrote: Gretorp a bit of a mistake thinking that the zealots getting picked off while warping was a blunder, Geoff's stalkers were firing that whole time, zealots are meant to be killed so stalkers can shoot.
only the few front stalkers were firing, the choke was long enough that the back stalkers weren't shooting.
Regardless, great win InControl
Yep, in addition a warping zealot is very different from a live zealot. Even though both are meant to die the live zealot forces stutter step micro. The way inc did it the zealots blocked his stalkers from moving up and getting more stalkers firing so the marines could just sit there and pick off the warping zealots but its a moot point, by that point in time qxc had lost way too much to make it back in.
This is an interesting match because Darkforce has been one of the pros saying Spanishiwa's build isn't that good, but Spanishiwa has beaten TT1 quite a bit in practice games.
On April 29 2011 11:25 jmbthirteen wrote: This is an interesting match because Darkforce has been one of the pros saying Spanishiwa's build isn't that good, but Spanishiwa has beaten TT1 quite a bit in practice games.
That will mean very little unless he actually did the Spanishiwa build :p
Hey, I gotta take care of some shit. If you guys wanna make a poll for recommended games after each match, I'll add em to the OP when I get back in an hour or 2. <3
On April 29 2011 11:25 jmbthirteen wrote: This is an interesting match because Darkforce has been one of the pros saying Spanishiwa's build isn't that good, but Spanishiwa has beaten TT1 quite a bit in practice games.
That will mean very little unless he actually did the Spanishiwa build :p
I've seen Spanishiwa beat TT1 with the Spanishiwa build and some variances of it.
On April 29 2011 10:26 lucasesper wrote: I was watching IPL. JustinTV, 12k viewers, High-quality stream, zero lag, beautiful sound, 0 USD.
During the break, I switch to NASL. 7k viewers, JustinTV, 240p, lags as hell, freezes completely during last battle, 20USD.
Sure enjoy the free pizza, cuz next season will as already stated by andrew will not get the front page treatment from IGN,
I don't understand this statement. What front page treatment?
Andrew stated that this was a test run, and on the IGN website SC2 is the feature game at the moment( because they cover alot of games, that they will not be the featured as the top game) so basically unless this takes off IGN will not flood them with all the money they are getting now
I love them both IPL and NASL, just hate the trolling about IPL on the NASL thread
Gotta love Khaldor's initial comment: "I think he'll just use this 6 mutalisks to annoy TT1" :D :D :D Really nice play although base trade barely goes well for P.
Edit: ^ Jesus what's with people and the Trollbait in these LR threads...
On April 29 2011 11:41 dark fury wrote: mutas, still the most blatantly OP unit in the game.
(darkforce is super good though, not taking anything away from him)
Eh 50 mutas, 50 void rays, 50 tanks etc. Certain unit counts make it impossible for a majority of armies to win. TT1 should have gone storm, or at the very least not fucked up that base trade so terribly
On April 29 2011 11:41 dark fury wrote: mutas, still the most blatantly OP unit in the game.
(darkforce is super good though, not taking anything away from him)
Eh 50 mutas, 50 void rays, 50 tanks etc. Certain unit counts make it impossible for a majority of armies to win. TT1 should have gone storm, or at the very least not fucked up that base trade so terribly
There are a lot of things he should have done differently, blaming it on any one unit is silly
On April 29 2011 11:43 englocked wrote: European players seems to be better than americans.
So when Cruncher beat Darkforce a week or two ago, NA was better?
Do we use darkforce games as the deciding factor? I don't think you'll find many who don't think that EU > NA atm, but randomly stating it in this thread because of that game is meaningless as meaningless can be.
On April 29 2011 11:43 englocked wrote: European players seems to be better than americans.
So when Cruncher beat Darkforce a week or two ago, NA was better?
Do we use darkforce games as the deciding factor? I don't think you'll find many who don't think that EU > NA atm, but randomly stating it in this thread because of that game is meaningless as meaningless can be.
No, is use last weeks results as a deciding factor. (TSL ...)
On April 29 2011 11:43 englocked wrote: European players seems to be better than americans.
So when Cruncher beat Darkforce a week or two ago, NA was better?
Do we use darkforce games as the deciding factor? I don't think you'll find many who don't think that EU > NA atm, but randomly stating it in this thread because of that game is meaningless as meaningless can be.
No, is use last weeks results as a deciding factor. (TSL ...)
There was a total of 1 NA player in TSL last week... i mean everyone knows that EU>NA even Idra and Huk and Select said so them self but whats the point of bragging out it, both EU and NA should work on being better than Koreans and not each other.
TT1 didn't get quite soooo ahead because he actually had no gateways for a long time, so he never got to build up that force. Now he is though cause the air harass didn't get defended.
Oh my... those Zealots that just do nothing but die to Baneling bombs. Artosis really needs to go on his world tour teaching protoss players to place zealots on different hotkeys.
Im amazed how long that took considering the 6 pool failed about as badly as a 6p could fail. Darkforce might have actually had a decent chance if he prepared for that air harass
There are 5,000 people watching Day9, 9,000 watching IPL and 9000 watching NASL. I know a lot of people watch 2 streams, but those are some pretty nice numbers for a Thursday night. Oh and NASL had like 10,000 viewers on the Euro broadcast earlier today.
On April 29 2011 12:04 jmbthirteen wrote: There are 5,000 people watching Day9, 9,000 watching IPL and 9000 watching NASL. I know a lot of people watch 2 streams, but those are some pretty nice numbers for a Thursday night. Oh and NASL had like 10,000 viewers on the Euro broadcast earlier today.
On April 29 2011 12:04 VX14 wrote: whitera wasnt 2-1 lol. why do gretorp and incontrol have like a 10 minute memory.
You have to remember these games aren't cast in order all the time. White Ra/Cruncher was probably recorded on Monday which is why incontrol casted it, where as the next two were casted on tuesday, the day incontrol plays.
The two games Darkforce won were domination. Its a wonder he went 7pool (pretty sure it was 7) in game 2 when it really seemed like he hadn't practiced it.
Yeah idk, I've heard a lot of good things about TT1 and his defense of the 6 pool was amazing. But some of the decisions he made in game 3 were just terrible, so terrible I had to look away from the game. He was clearly going to lose.
On April 29 2011 12:19 Nerdslayer wrote: lol another US player getting destroyed haha TT1 coulnt even get in masters league in europe seriously wow he is bad
Why do you have to be such a jerk about him losing?
On April 29 2011 12:19 Nerdslayer wrote: lol another US player getting destroyed haha TT1 coulnt even get in masters league in europe seriously wow he is bad
TT1 has some great achievements (beating Nada, San, moonglade) Please stop this europe vs america.
On April 29 2011 12:19 Nerdslayer wrote: lol another US player getting destroyed haha TT1 coulnt even get in masters league in europe seriously wow he is bad
Again. TT1 is Canadian. If your going to laugh at him at least know where he's from you troll.
On April 29 2011 12:19 Nerdslayer wrote: lol another US player getting destroyed haha TT1 coulnt even get in masters league in europe seriously wow he is bad
This is an absurd post with no foundation in reality. Eu/Na has nothing to do with it. Clearly you don't remember TT1 playing in the Korea vs world tourny.
On April 29 2011 12:19 Nerdslayer wrote: lol another US player getting destroyed haha TT1 coulnt even get in masters league in europe seriously wow he is bad
On April 29 2011 12:19 Nerdslayer wrote: lol another US player getting destroyed haha TT1 coulnt even get in masters league in europe seriously wow he is bad
Why do you have to be such a jerk about him losing?
On April 29 2011 12:19 Nerdslayer wrote: lol another US player getting destroyed haha TT1 coulnt even get in masters league in europe seriously wow he is bad
hey remember last week when Cruncher beat Darkforce?
On April 29 2011 12:19 Nerdslayer wrote: lol another US player getting destroyed haha TT1 coulnt even get in masters league in europe seriously wow he is bad
On April 29 2011 12:19 Nerdslayer wrote: lol another US player getting destroyed haha TT1 coulnt even get in masters league in europe seriously wow he is bad
Why do you have to be such a jerk about him losing?
Jerk, im just stating a fact buddy!
A fact huh? You don't even know where the guy is from, nice job on your "facts". Now go look up fact vs opinion, you might learn something.
On April 29 2011 12:19 Nerdslayer wrote: lol another US player getting destroyed haha TT1 coulnt even get in masters league in europe seriously wow he is bad
Dude, be more respectful.
by the way i like the music during the breaks NASL, much more pleasing.
On April 29 2011 12:19 Nerdslayer wrote: lol another US player getting destroyed haha TT1 coulnt even get in masters league in europe seriously wow he is bad
Why do you have to be such a jerk about him losing?
Jerk, im just stating a fact buddy!
No you're not, you're being a jerk, and you're not gonna last long on TL if you don't manner up.
On April 29 2011 12:19 Nerdslayer wrote: lol another US player getting destroyed haha TT1 coulnt even get in masters league in europe seriously wow he is bad
Why do you have to be such a jerk about him losing?
Jerk, im just stating a fact buddy!
Those were by far the worst games I've ever seen TT1 play. Remember he beat some Koreans in the GSTL WC not that long ago.
On April 29 2011 12:19 Nerdslayer wrote: lol another US player getting destroyed haha TT1 coulnt even get in masters league in europe seriously wow he is bad
On April 29 2011 12:19 Nerdslayer wrote: lol another US player getting destroyed haha TT1 coulnt even get in masters league in europe seriously wow he is bad
Why do you have to be such a jerk about him losing?
Jerk, im just stating a fact buddy!
Get real. You didn't even state the facts accurately, since TT1 isn't from the US, but you should be more tactful.
On April 29 2011 12:19 Nerdslayer wrote: lol another US player getting destroyed haha TT1 coulnt even get in masters league in europe seriously wow he is bad
TT1 is from Canada, not the US.
Same thing just better healthcare:D
Thats like saying Sweden Denmark Norway Finland are all the same. The US and Canada are not the same.
On April 29 2011 12:19 Nerdslayer wrote: lol another US player getting destroyed haha TT1 coulnt even get in masters league in europe seriously wow he is bad
Why do you have to be such a jerk about him losing?
Jerk, im just stating a fact buddy!
Nah you're being a bit of a jerk about it as if you get off to it.
On April 29 2011 12:19 On_Slaught wrote: The two games Darkforce won were domination. Its a wonder he went 7pool (pretty sure it was 7) in game 2 when it really seemed like he hadn't practiced it.
He does practice and use it against P occasionally, I even remember him considering 7Pool as one of his "standard" builds in PvZ some time ago. No idea, why he didn't micro properly, though.
On April 29 2011 12:19 Nerdslayer wrote: lol another US player getting destroyed haha TT1 coulnt even get in masters league in europe seriously wow he is bad
Why do you have to be such a jerk about him losing?
Jerk, im just stating a fact buddy!
No you are trolling and talking nonsense. You couldnt get a single thing right in your post.
On April 29 2011 12:19 Nerdslayer wrote: lol another US player getting destroyed haha TT1 coulnt even get in masters league in europe seriously wow he is bad
TT1 has some great achievements (beating Nada, San, moonglade) Please stop this europe vs america.
Europeans are loving to hype Europe all of the sudden. Where is this coming from? TSL results? People say their ladder is better, but that doesn't mean Europe>America for all the top pros.
On April 29 2011 12:19 Nerdslayer wrote: lol another US player getting destroyed haha TT1 coulnt even get in masters league in europe seriously wow he is bad
Why do you have to be such a jerk about him losing?
Jerk, im just stating a fact buddy!
TT1 was on the world all star team in the GSL........ dont even think hes not a amazing player
On April 29 2011 12:19 Nerdslayer wrote: lol another US player getting destroyed haha TT1 coulnt even get in masters league in europe seriously wow he is bad
hey remember last week when Cruncher beat Darkforce?
On April 29 2011 12:19 Nerdslayer wrote: lol another US player getting destroyed haha TT1 coulnt even get in masters league in europe seriously wow he is bad
TT1 has some great achievements (beating Nada, San, moonglade) Please stop this europe vs america.
Europeans are loving to hype Europe all of the sudden. Where is this coming from? TSL results? People say their ladder is better, but that doesn't mean Europe>America for all the top pros.
Haha, it's not too sudden, I'd say. I think Starcraft has a lot of very patriotic(or whatever the equivalent is for a whole continent) Europeans. Especially the Germans. Germans loooove their players.
On April 29 2011 12:19 Nerdslayer wrote: lol another US player getting destroyed haha TT1 coulnt even get in masters league in europe seriously wow he is bad
TT1 has some great achievements (beating Nada, San, moonglade) Please stop this europe vs america.
Europeans are loving to hype Europe all of the sudden. Where is this coming from? TSL results? People say their ladder is better, but that doesn't mean Europe>America for all the top pros.
Damn, it's really dumb that there are different versions of the maps. Sure, the players should keep themselves updated on what version it is they're playing on, but it's bound to be confusing when you're playing in different tournaments every day.
All right it's clear what needs to happen here. America vs Euro flame war. I'll start. Bring it you tea sipping, baguette-munching, chain-smoking, borderline-communist scallywags!
On April 29 2011 12:19 Nerdslayer wrote: lol another US player getting destroyed haha TT1 coulnt even get in masters league in europe seriously wow he is bad
TT1 is Canadian.... are you that dense?
If you are going to shit on NA players at least use the right acronyms.
On April 29 2011 12:28 Beef Noodles wrote: All right it's clear what needs to happen here. America vs Euro flame war. I'll start. Bring it you tea sipping, baguette-munching, chain-smoking, borderline-communist scallywags!
On April 29 2011 12:28 Beef Noodles wrote: All right it's clear what needs to happen here. America vs Euro flame war. I'll start. Bring it you tea sipping, baguette-munching, chain-smoking, borderline-communist scallywags!
Lol why is the music for NASL so different than normal SC2 tourney music (hard rock, epic instrumentals). I can't even explain how this music makes me feel.
On April 29 2011 12:28 Beef Noodles wrote: All right it's clear what needs to happen here. America vs Euro flame war. I'll start. Bring it you tea sipping, baguette-munching, chain-smoking, borderline-communist scallywags!
Ensnare doing some eco cheese. Two CCs going up at the same time. Ensnare is going to get away with it since Moman is teching + putting down spine crawlers.
On April 29 2011 12:38 LoLAdriankat wrote: Ensnare doing some eco cheese. Two CCs going up at the same time. Ensnare is going to get away with it since Moman is teching + putting down spine crawlers.
Is eco cheese actually cheese?
Would someone complain "damn, you double CC FE'd me!!"
Good metagame play given that Zerg's are expecting marine + hellion pressure early.
Is this the type of game people want when they beg for macro games? I hope not because it's boring as hell. Almost 15 minutes in and nothing has happened, yaaaaaaaaawn.
On April 29 2011 12:43 Whitewing wrote: Where is khaldor getting these numbers? He says 91, I see 85 on the screen?
Aren't they casting this live?
I know that Khaldor is using the the worker supply thing (in the middle of the screen) which was patched in recently. Maybe it shows different numbers?
My God....It's just max out and a-move for Moman over and over again. Ensnare actually splitting his marines is pushing further into Moman's territory.
The drone count is irrelevant--the problem is that during the battle, Ensnare was 3/2 (2/0 on mech) compared to Moman's 0/2 (2/0 on air) That made the ling/bling melt; it would have won on equal upgrades.
On April 29 2011 12:43 Whitewing wrote: Where is khaldor getting these numbers? He says 91, I see 85 on the screen?
Aren't they casting this live?
Am I the only one who's noticed that the income tab has an inaccurate worker number? When 6 gating just became popular I was trying to work out the exact drone numbers I needed to defend against it and I found that manually counting the drones resulted in a different total number than what the income tab said! To this day it's still messed up. If you ctrl+A and compare the spectator income tab with the normal I income tab there is a disparity between the two as well i.e. ctrl A is right, the income tab is wrong.
On April 29 2011 12:43 Whitewing wrote: Where is khaldor getting these numbers? He says 91, I see 85 on the screen?
Aren't they casting this live?
Am I the only one who's noticed that the income tab has an inaccurate worker number? When 6 gating just became popular I was trying to work out what the exact drone numbers I needed to defend against it and I found that manually counting the drones resulted in a different total number than what the income tab said! To this day it's still messed up. If you ctrl+A and compare the spectator income tab with the normal I income tab there is a disparity between the two as well i.e. ctrl A is right, the income tab is wrong.
I have been noticing how off the tabs and worker counts have been lately. Sometimes they just don't update at all.
Why no spines? He had like 3 and 90 something drones. Am I wrong in saying he could have done much better if he sacked the 4th and made like 10 spines (or any really) at the choke of the 1st-3rd?
Well that was lackluster at best, after seeing the 3 CC opener I was expecting some type of cool new BO or something, except all we got were marine/tanks vs ling/bling as usual
On April 29 2011 12:52 chipmonklord17 wrote: Why no spines? He had like 3 and 90 something drones. Am I wrong in saying he could have done much better if he sacked the 4th and made like 10 spines (or any really) at the choke of the 1st-3rd?
Spines don't exactly turn the tide vs. 6+ siege tanks shelling away with that many marines thwarted the mutas. If you're suggesting it as a means of delaying the attack for infestors or something, they really wouldn't add that much extra time.
On April 29 2011 12:43 Whitewing wrote: Where is khaldor getting these numbers? He says 91, I see 85 on the screen?
Aren't they casting this live?
Am I the only one who's noticed that the income tab has an inaccurate worker number? When 6 gating just became popular I was trying to work out the exact drone numbers I needed to defend against it and I found that manually counting the drones resulted in a different total number than what the income tab said! To this day it's still messed up. If you ctrl+A and compare the spectator income tab with the normal I income tab there is a disparity between the two as well i.e. ctrl A is right, the income tab is wrong.
Huh. That's an interesting bug. Hope Blizzard will provide a fix soon :\
On April 29 2011 12:52 chipmonklord17 wrote: Why no spines? He had like 3 and 90 something drones. Am I wrong in saying he could have done much better if he sacked the 4th and made like 10 spines (or any really) at the choke of the 1st-3rd?
Spines don't exactly turn the tide vs. 6+ siege tanks shelling away with that many marines thwarted the mutas. If you're suggesting it as a means of delaying the attack for infestors or something, they really wouldn't add that much extra time.
Oh I didn't really notice the seige tank count. Yea I guess that wouldn't have done much.
On April 29 2011 13:06 Seditary wrote: I think my favourite thing about July is he doesn't run his muta flock away from small amounts of marines like almost every other zerg does.
On April 29 2011 13:06 RajaF wrote: That was some poor play by Sjow.
July's constant pressure and solid counterattacks force a lot of errors. Which is why those who lose to July seem to play so terribly bad. July's play makes anyone look like a noob when it works.
On April 29 2011 13:05 Seditary wrote: Well that was rather bad by Sjow, breaks his army up all over the place and gets picked apart.
Sure, it was all bad on Sjow.
Rather, realistically, his army was all over the place because JULY WAS ALL OVER THE PLACE. He was forced into a push, yet July exploited this push with the perfect amount of lings + muta force in between.
On April 29 2011 13:07 mordk wrote: July's constant pressure and solid counterattacks force a lot of errors. Which is why those who lose to July seem to play so terribly bad. July's play makes anyone look like a noob when it works.
On April 29 2011 13:06 Seditary wrote: I think my favourite thing about July is he doesn't run his muta flock away from small amounts of marines like almost every other zerg does.
July had that counter prepared for so long I love the way he played that out. When Sjow moved out he was on it like white on rice. I was worried about Sjows push for half a second...then I was reminded of how good july's macro was when I saw the massive army he had in base move on the mini-map.
It's actually like 9pm when Sjow plays and 4am when July plays? That's what I got when NASL mentioned about July supposed to play at 4am his time on week 1.
On April 29 2011 13:05 Seditary wrote: Well that was rather bad by Sjow, breaks his army up all over the place and gets picked apart.
Sure, it was all bad on Sjow.
Rather, realistically, his army was all over the place because JULY WAS ALL OVER THE PLACE. He was forced into a push, yet July exploited this push with the perfect amount of lings + muta force in between.
On April 29 2011 13:07 mordk wrote: July's constant pressure and solid counterattacks force a lot of errors. Which is why those who lose to July seem to play so terribly bad. July's play makes anyone look like a noob when it works.
Precisely.
OK, I should restate. It was not all bad on Sjow, just that final push. Should of stayed together with his whole army or not move out at all. He was sitting comfy on three bases, no need to push at that time.
On April 29 2011 13:06 RajaF wrote: That was some poor play by Sjow.
Well u do have to realize that its 6 am for him atm, time of nasl matches are really not in favor of Europeans.
Horse shit. Competitors aren't dramatically affected by early mornings. Oh noes, it's slightly early, my brain isn't there. Nope. That's not an excuse in athletics, and likewise it's not an excuse in progaming/esports. Competitors are obligated to prepare and adjust to the conditions in which they are required to compete. Stop attempting to make piss poor excuses.
On April 29 2011 13:06 RajaF wrote: That was some poor play by Sjow.
Well u do have to realize that its 6 am for him atm, time of nasl matches are really not in favor of Europeans.
A: The games are pre-casted and pre-recorded ahead of time.
B: The lag factor is much, much worse.
Exactly, and wasn't it mentioned in another thread that for July's scheduled match against white-ra he woke up at 4 am to play? So I imagine the timing for this match isn't exactly in his favor either.
On April 29 2011 12:04 Whitewing wrote: I think Gretorp is high.
What, and the giggling (and joke about being high) last night didn't tip you off? Whatever, I actually enjoy his stoned casting more, I think it gets rid of his nerves.
On April 29 2011 13:06 RajaF wrote: That was some poor play by Sjow.
Well u do have to realize that its 6 am for him atm, time of nasl matches are really not in favor of Europeans.
A: The games are pre-casted and pre-recorded ahead of time.
B: The lag factor is much, much worse.
Hmm, thought they said all matches are live because the sponsors wanted it like that.
No, they aren't. That's why they're able to mix up the order of matches and accidentally spoil match results and stuff like that. And encoding difficulties, etc, etc...
And that's why this stuff is edited so well, for such a small team size.
Does anyone remember July when he was in Code A? Idk how he got so good over this time, he looked rather... mediocre in code A but he's a complete beast now.
On April 29 2011 13:05 Seditary wrote: Well that was rather bad by Sjow, breaks his army up all over the place and gets picked apart.
Sure, it was all bad on Sjow.
Rather, realistically, his army was all over the place because JULY WAS ALL OVER THE PLACE. He was forced into a push, yet July exploited this push with the perfect amount of lings + muta force in between.
On April 29 2011 13:07 mordk wrote: July's constant pressure and solid counterattacks force a lot of errors. Which is why those who lose to July seem to play so terribly bad. July's play makes anyone look like a noob when it works.
Precisely.
OK, I should restate. It was not all bad on Sjow, just that final push. Should of stayed together with his whole army or not move out at all. He was sitting comfy on three bases, no need to push at that time.
July is a pretty aggressive Zerg so I guess he didn't want to have a super aggressive Zerg do whatever he wanted too much?
July is too amazing He could do wonders if he had a better creep spread I think thats his biggest flaw, he doesn't seem to like spreading creep as much as people like Morrow
On April 29 2011 13:05 Seditary wrote: Well that was rather bad by Sjow, breaks his army up all over the place and gets picked apart.
Sure, it was all bad on Sjow.
Rather, realistically, his army was all over the place because JULY WAS ALL OVER THE PLACE. He was forced into a push, yet July exploited this push with the perfect amount of lings + muta force in between.
On April 29 2011 13:07 mordk wrote: July's constant pressure and solid counterattacks force a lot of errors. Which is why those who lose to July seem to play so terribly bad. July's play makes anyone look like a noob when it works.
Precisely.
OK, I should restate. It was not all bad on Sjow, just that final push. Should of stayed together with his whole army or not move out at all. He was sitting comfy on three bases, no need to push at that time.
July is a pretty aggressive Zerg so I guess he didn't want to have a super aggressive Zerg do whatever he wanted too much?
Well, only Sjow know the answer to that. It was just a couple of wrong decisions. Happens to the best of them.
Lag much improved tonight. I was late and only tuned in during the middle of last game (T_T), but I haven't had any lag problems even at Best quality, so yay to NASL!
On April 29 2011 13:05 Seditary wrote: Well that was rather bad by Sjow, breaks his army up all over the place and gets picked apart.
Sure, it was all bad on Sjow.
Rather, realistically, his army was all over the place because JULY WAS ALL OVER THE PLACE. He was forced into a push, yet July exploited this push with the perfect amount of lings + muta force in between.
On April 29 2011 13:07 mordk wrote: July's constant pressure and solid counterattacks force a lot of errors. Which is why those who lose to July seem to play so terribly bad. July's play makes anyone look like a noob when it works.
Precisely.
Sending a quarter of his marines back for the counterattack just to get slaughtered as well as putting another half out of range of most of his siege tanks is all Sjow.
On April 29 2011 12:43 Whitewing wrote: Where is khaldor getting these numbers? He says 91, I see 85 on the screen?
Aren't they casting this live?
Am I the only one who's noticed that the income tab has an inaccurate worker number? When 6 gating just became popular I was trying to work out the exact drone numbers I needed to defend against it and I found that manually counting the drones resulted in a different total number than what the income tab said! To this day it's still messed up. If you ctrl+A and compare the spectator income tab with the normal I income tab there is a disparity between the two as well i.e. ctrl A is right, the income tab is wrong.
Huh. That's an interesting bug. Hope Blizzard will provide a fix soon :\
It's accurate... just not accurate at every exact time. I don't think it updates but every certain amount of time.
I don't think Sjow is a bad player, but wow that was one sided. July clearly deserves his reputation. I liked that marine push out from Sjow, but July showed why you need to be more on your toes when facing him.
On April 29 2011 13:20 AndAgain wrote: Unpredictability is a good quality in and of itself. That's something that Idra doesn't understand and never ever will.
On April 29 2011 13:20 AndAgain wrote: Unpredictability is a good quality in and of itself. That's something that Idra doesn't understand and never ever will.
uhhh what?
Without unpredictability, your opponent can more easily cut corners. Pretty much the reason why every pro cheeses now and then, even Idra.
Is it just me, or is Gretorp and Khaldor a much better casting team than iNcontrol and Gretorp? G&K are much better at just talking, joking, and keeping it entertaining with banter, while iNcontrol tends to dominate over Gretorp with idle conversation, and doesn't really relate to Gretorp's jokes.
On April 29 2011 13:20 AndAgain wrote: Unpredictability is a good quality in and of itself. That's something that Idra doesn't understand and never ever will.
uhhh what?
Being unpredictable and being willing to adapt quickly puts your opponent on the back foot before the game even begins. As good as Idra is one of his biggest weaknesses is that he almost never does early all-in aggression unless he planned to do so before the game even started. By comparison, what makes July so scary is that he's willing to go all-in the second his opponent makes a mistake or gets a little greedy.
Honestly, Sjow isn't a bad player. Is it that damn hard to just give respect where respect is due? July is a fucking beast. End of. He played damn well, and I can objectively point out many aspects of the games that make Sjow appear to look bad, when really it's simply that July was that good. Get over it, sheesh
On April 29 2011 13:20 AndAgain wrote: Unpredictability is a good quality in and of itself. That's something that Idra doesn't understand and never ever will.
On April 29 2011 13:20 AndAgain wrote: Unpredictability is a good quality in and of itself. That's something that Idra doesn't understand and never ever will.
I don't think you've been keeping up with Idra's recent play.
On April 29 2011 13:20 AndAgain wrote: Unpredictability is a good quality in and of itself. That's something that Idra doesn't understand and never ever will.
uhhh what?
Being unpredictable and being willing to adapt quickly puts your opponent on the back foot before the game even begins. As good as Idra is one of his biggest weaknesses is that he almost never does early all-in aggression unless he planned to do so before the game even started. By comparison, what makes July so scary is that he's willing to go all-in the second his opponent makes a mistake or gets a little greedy.
The argument definitely shouldn't be that Idra doesn't UNDERSTAND being aggressive or taking risks, though. Idra on risks:
its not cocky, its not arrogant, its not flash losing focus and its not stupid of him to take risks. terran is fragile. playing to minimize losses can work to an extent, if you're good enough. look at all the solid terrans there have been, people like midas and hwasin, theyre ridiculously good. they won, alot. they never won a title. because once you start playing against bisu and jaedong and effort, if you play to not lose you have no chance because that style can be abused very hard. thats why flash has always been able to win, he is one of the best mechanically anyway, but he takes risks. theyre normally very well calculated and based on scouting and knowledge, not pure luck, but they are risks none the less and sometimes that backfires and you look stupid no matter who you are. flash won game 2 cuz he left his base relatively open while mutas are out and goes to pressure effort's third. at that point hes way, way behind and if the attack doesnt go his way hes dead, but if he doesnt do anything with the situation hes in a lot of trouble anyway. so he takes his chance, and it works. game 4, if he just sits back and tries to turtle up effort runs him ragged with muta micro, given how fast mutas come off that build and the setup of fighting spirit. so he pushes out right before mutas will be out to try to pressure, hoping to catch effort off guard and force a sunken or lings, anything to lessen the effect of the mutas. but efforts prepared for this and it doesnt work. in both games hes in a tough situation and takes a risk to try to turn it in his favor. one game he looks great, the other he looks retarded. a more conservative player will sit back and turret up both games, he doesnt run the risk of dying immediately and he doesnt end up looking stupid and getting criticized. but hes never gonna win a starleague.
Damn I missed the matches tonight. I'll def be checking out the vods though. I was pretty happy/surpirsed at the results. Since I didn't see the matches I can't comment much, but a nagging feeling in the back of my mind has been that the Koreans have not been taking NASL 100% seriously. Seeing July and Ensnare 2-0 their opponents tonight gives me hope that this will be a world-wide, super-competitive league.
We are only in week three, but when this hits week 7 I think NASL is going to explode into something NA has yet to see. And after season 1 finals, I know I'm going to be super pumped about what season two will bring.
On April 29 2011 13:20 AndAgain wrote: Unpredictability is a good quality in and of itself. That's something that Idra doesn't understand and never ever will.
uhhh what?
Being unpredictable and being willing to adapt quickly puts your opponent on the back foot before the game even begins. As good as Idra is one of his biggest weaknesses is that he almost never does early all-in aggression unless he planned to do so before the game even started. By comparison, what makes July so scary is that he's willing to go all-in the second his opponent makes a mistake or gets a little greedy.
The argument definitely shouldn't be that Idra doesn't UNDERSTAND being aggressive or taking risks, though. Idra on risks:
its not cocky, its not arrogant, its not flash losing focus and its not stupid of him to take risks. terran is fragile. playing to minimize losses can work to an extent, if you're good enough. look at all the solid terrans there have been, people like midas and hwasin, theyre ridiculously good. they won, alot. they never won a title. because once you start playing against bisu and jaedong and effort, if you play to not lose you have no chance because that style can be abused very hard. thats why flash has always been able to win, he is one of the best mechanically anyway, but he takes risks. theyre normally very well calculated and based on scouting and knowledge, not pure luck, but they are risks none the less and sometimes that backfires and you look stupid no matter who you are. flash won game 2 cuz he left his base relatively open while mutas are out and goes to pressure effort's third. at that point hes way, way behind and if the attack doesnt go his way hes dead, but if he doesnt do anything with the situation hes in a lot of trouble anyway. so he takes his chance, and it works. game 4, if he just sits back and tries to turtle up effort runs him ragged with muta micro, given how fast mutas come off that build and the setup of fighting spirit. so he pushes out right before mutas will be out to try to pressure, hoping to catch effort off guard and force a sunken or lings, anything to lessen the effect of the mutas. but efforts prepared for this and it doesnt work. in both games hes in a tough situation and takes a risk to try to turn it in his favor. one game he looks great, the other he looks retarded. a more conservative player will sit back and turret up both games, he doesnt run the risk of dying immediately and he doesnt end up looking stupid and getting criticized. but hes never gonna win a starleague.
That spoilered quote is pretty interesting... Idra honoring aggressive tactics as necessary risks to be a true champion. If zerg's early aggresive options were more appealing Idra would probably incorportate them more often
On April 29 2011 13:20 AndAgain wrote: Unpredictability is a good quality in and of itself. That's something that Idra doesn't understand and never ever will.
Hey, cheap shots for everyone! Also you're a moron.
On April 29 2011 13:52 jarhead271 wrote: Damn I missed the matches tonight. I'll def be checking out the vods though. I was pretty happy/surpirsed at the results. Since I didn't see the matches I can't comment much, but a nagging feeling in the back of my mind has been that the Koreans have not been taking NASL 100% seriously. Seeing July and Ensnare 2-0 their opponents tonight gives me hope that this will be a world-wide, super-competitive league.
We are only in week three, but when this hits week 7 I think NASL is going to explode into something NA has yet to see. And after season 1 finals, I know I'm going to be super pumped about what season two will bring.
... There is $50,000 on the line... they aren't treating it like some random ladder match...
On April 29 2011 12:19 On_Slaught wrote: The two games Darkforce won were domination. Its a wonder he went 7pool (pretty sure it was 7) in game 2 when it really seemed like he hadn't practiced it.
i had played like ~20 games of 6 pool on terminus re against my practise partner. he reacted slighty different to it though, my practise partner build his pylon on the side of the mineralline facing the natural (so he can slide when i attack the pylon), so when i saw that his pylon is on the other side, i was not sure whether i should go around and start attacking the pylon (then he has nothing to slide through, but i lose some time) or whether its good enough to just kill some probes. had i scouted his proxy quicker i think i would have been fine. in practise it was enough to kill a couple of probes and then just kill pylon and forge at the lowground and go from there.
also it was a 6 pool. 7 pool comes alot later and does like no damage on cross position.
to the other people talking about how good muta vs P is: its mostly good against people who have not practised against it much, if the opponent doesnt get thrown off as hard as TT1 and has a good plan against it, it does not work out very well, thats why i dont use it that often anymore (i used to play for basetrade in >50% of my ZvP).
Anyone else got a problem viewing vods? Its a complete studderfest, can't even prebuffer as it will just stop buffering after a while, so I can watch like 5 mins of it every hour ._.
darkforce, I was surprised by your reaction to the proxy gateways, where you built a TON of lings and got your roaches late. Care to explain why? I thought the "standard" way to deal with that is covering your mineral line with spines and get roaches immediately, because you need them to bust out of your own ramp.
iNcontroL tearing it UP so far. Guess all those people who thought his MLG result was a fluke (easiest group, cheesing etc) were, um, totally fucking wrong!
On April 29 2011 13:20 AndAgain wrote: Unpredictability is a good quality in and of itself. That's something that Idra doesn't understand and never ever will.
I don't think you've been keeping up with Idra's recent play.
I think he's added a roach ling timing attacking against P and it's working for him, but this is something Koreans have been doing for a while. He's still a boorish player to watch though.
On April 29 2011 13:52 jarhead271 wrote: Damn I missed the matches tonight. I'll def be checking out the vods though. I was pretty happy/surpirsed at the results. Since I didn't see the matches I can't comment much, but a nagging feeling in the back of my mind has been that the Koreans have not been taking NASL 100% seriously. Seeing July and Ensnare 2-0 their opponents tonight gives me hope that this will be a world-wide, super-competitive league.
We are only in week three, but when this hits week 7 I think NASL is going to explode into something NA has yet to see. And after season 1 finals, I know I'm going to be super pumped about what season two will bring.
Your comment cannot be more insulting to the players, korean or non-korean alike.
On April 29 2011 13:20 AndAgain wrote: Unpredictability is a good quality in and of itself. That's something that Idra doesn't understand and never ever will.
I don't think you've been keeping up with Idra's recent play.
I think he's added a roach ling timing attacking against P and it's working for him, but this is something Koreans have been doing for a while. He's still a boorish player to watch though.
He's doing baneling drops, both on army an as multi pronged attacks. He uses infestors quite nicely in some games, he tried a 9 pool in one of the games I watched. And that was from a few hours one day of watching his stream. He's about as creative as the large majority of top zerg players. If that makes him boring to you I just think you find zergs in general boring or are extreemly picky.
When are the NASL finals ? JulyZerg has never lost an OSL finals in July . So i'm geting pumped for July crushing nerds live in California . I hope no lag issues prevents him from making the finals i am really worried about him i don't know why .
It is so incredibly annoying that the stream lags on 480p. It's not my internet! What is up with Justing.tv and EU (or is it just me?) I will never know.
On April 30 2011 02:04 sashkata wrote: It is so incredibly annoying that the stream lags on 480p. It's not my internet! What is up with Justing.tv and EU (or is it just me?) I will never know.
I found it worked better for me when I used the pop-out video option, might be worth a try to see if it helps.
On April 30 2011 02:04 sashkata wrote: It is so incredibly annoying that the stream lags on 480p. It's not my internet! What is up with Justing.tv and EU (or is it just me?) I will never know.
On April 30 2011 02:04 sashkata wrote: It is so incredibly annoying that the stream lags on 480p. It's not my internet! What is up with Justing.tv and EU (or is it just me?) I will never know.
QXC is just "bad" (relatively) since he went in Spain. It's understandable, he's there for studies and Spain isn't exactly a country where you want to stay in your room playing video games:D His build was good, but his execution during the fight (zero bio micro ) was poor.
Qxc lost that game because of the "Colossus Syndrome". If you overmake the Colossus killers, your small ground army will evoporate against the Colossus shots before your Colossus killers take em out. He should have done what Gretorp said: Snipe them and lose them, then resupply with MMM and smash the rest.
EDIT: In game 2, he played it right. Sniped the Colossus, EMP-ed the army, and engaged when the Colossus are dead. Great play.
On April 30 2011 02:53 Bleak wrote: Qxc lost that game because of the "Colossus Syndrome". If you overmake the Colossus killers, your small ground army will evoporate against the Colossus shots before your Colossus killers take em out. He should have done what Gretorp said: Snipe them and lose them, then resupply with MMM and smash the rest.
EDIT: In game 2, he played it right. Sniped the Colossus, EMP-ed the army, and engaged when the Colossus are dead. Great play.
True. When I said he was bad that was compared to his level when he was still in US. Obviously I don't think he is a bad player
On April 30 2011 04:18 Jaydeed wrote: Without InControl casting, does anyone else think the casters a struggling quite a bit to explain whats happening, especial during the fights?
You could say, they need some help staying in control..............
Don't know casting seems fine to me . Khaldor has a little trouble do to english not being his first language , but he is doing totaly fine if you ask me .
Hey guys, I'm thinking, wouldn't it be great if each match have a scheduled time? (example: WhiteRa - Cruncher: 8PM, Incontrol vs Qxc: 9PM) so may be if someone is busy they can estimate the time to tune in for the match they want most. The time must not really be accurate though (for example if one match goes to set 3 and all 3 are long macro games that make them longer than 1 hour in total), just to give an idea when to tune in. If one match is short may be a longer break?
Been busy the past few days and haven't watched NASL in a little while, but just want to say how good Gretorp is now. Wow, like a completely different caster.
On April 30 2011 04:48 Piy wrote: Been busy the past few days and haven't watched NASL in a little while, but just want to say how good Gretorp is now. Wow, like a completely different caster.
I agree sir. I was unhappy with him in the first week but he's doing superb right now.
Eurekastreet : I don't know why but that feels right :D Nice job. And yeah watching NASL is pretty good now compared to the first 2 weeks. The only thing I see is that I don't feel the games are important yet, I don't have the urge to not miss any game like I have for GSL (or TSL) for instance.
I feel like he could have done more with those hellions before July got speed and before the spine got up. Could have killed the queen or run by and got some drone kills, because slow lings are just food for hellions. I dunno, I don't want to question the decisions of a much better player than me too much.
When i watched the first few days i was devastated, like most of the other people watching it, took a break and recently came back to it. They are really shaping up now, almost everything is working perfect, couldn't be happier with it. Great job NASL!
*thumbs up* on all the improvements so far guys, the production has come along way already and while it's still having a couple of issues, I'm sure you're aware of what to work on and will do so ^^
Gretorp seems to be enjoying himself a lot more now and his casting has definitely stepped up as a result.
Now just supply VODs in LQ and I'll be buying a ticket =) (f'ing jtv taking half a year to buffer in 1080p)
great play by darkforce. He changed his ZvP style (have seen him going roach hydra corruptor in the past with mixed results). His unit composition and play style takes a lot of advantage from protoss immobility , like that :-D
On April 30 2011 05:40 Schnullerbacke13 wrote: great play by darkforce. He changed his ZvP style (have seen him going roach hydra corruptor in the past with mixed results). His unit composition and play style takes a lot of advantage from protoss immobility , like that :-D
More like he went back to his old muta/ling base trade style. But he already said in this thread that this style can be countered quite easily, so I guess he will switch back again
You know, I used to think InControl was like an Artosis-level "pro", a guy who is decent by normal standards but nowhear near good enough to truly compete at the top but who people pay attention to because of other stuff he does as a caster. But the dude is actually pretty damn legit.
On April 29 2011 10:07 TheTenthDoc wrote: I, for one, think Cruncher is a man of the people. He clearly proxy gates in an attempt to get the game over as soon as possible for the benefit of the spectators that hate PvP.
I'm not sure if you're being serious or not, but that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I hate people giving him credit because he really isn't good. Like in the TSL3 against Mondi and IdrA he got trashed over and over and he still won merely because he abuses a ridiculously easy strategy and does super cheesy play. People act like he's the greatest player ever, all he's done is manage to have constant production out of 2 stargates and 1 robo until he just A-Moves out.
On April 30 2011 06:21 awesomoecalypse wrote: You know, I used to think InControl was like an Artosis-level "pro", a guy who is decent by normal standards but nowhear near good enough to truly compete at the top but who people pay attention to because of other stuff he does as a caster. But the dude is actually pretty damn legit.
Yeah. He's not a top-top-tier player like IdrA or Kiwi or Select but he's has a really solid style. If you watch his stream he doesn't make many mistakes and is capable of some great reads.
On April 30 2011 06:21 awesomoecalypse wrote: You know, I used to think InControl was like an Artosis-level "pro", a guy who is decent by normal standards but nowhear near good enough to truly compete at the top but who people pay attention to because of other stuff he does as a caster. But the dude is actually pretty damn legit.
Yeah. He's not a top-top-tier player like IdrA or Kiwi or Select but he's has a really solid style. If you watch his stream he doesn't make many mistakes and is capable of some great reads.
He isn't the most dynamic player, and some of his builds can be quite dull to watch (more about the race and it's defining units than him), so I think he gets criticism because of that, but as you say, he's not a top top player.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/motbob/NASL_Banner.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/LpeHT.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1148.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/motbob/vs.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/2254.jpg)
![[image loading]](/images/flags2/ua.png)
White-Ra < Shattered Temple > ![[image loading]](/images/flags2/us.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1596.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1139.jpg)
qxc < Shattered Temple > ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1698.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1233.jpg)
![[image loading]](/images/flags2/de.png)
DarKFoRcE < Shattered Temple > ![[image loading]](/images/flags2/ca.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1656.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1900.jpg)
![[image loading]](/images/flags2/fr.png)
![[image loading]](/images/flags2/ks.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1777.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/117.jpg)
![[image loading]](/images/flags2/se.png)
wp
![[image loading]](http://standuppatriots.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/1233928590_citizen-kane-clapping.gif)
.![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/aO096.jpg)
