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It's ok to be excited that your favorite player won. Please keep it manner! |
On February 14 2011 00:51 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2011 00:34 rEiGN~ wrote:On February 13 2011 23:59 Euronyme wrote:
I wish someone else had casted this honestly.. I can't really watch the glhf vods without strong urges to vomit.
Did the biscuit guy cast the finals? I only found vods of earlier games by him. Biscuit guy is just as horrible, I want Day9 for the next big tourney!  Agreed.. Dunno why they didn't have a caster there tbh. Edit: Wait no... The biscuit is better than this.. These guys sound constipated, and I have a feeling none of them has English as a native language. It's one thing being able to speak English, but another thing people enjoying listening to you doing so. Dreamhack is mainly a WoW / CS lan, but they got day9 over to cast their sc2 tourny. In my opinion Incontrol and gretorp are the best casters next to tastosis though. Day9 is a little too analytic to hype things up to the max imho ^^
You can't have day9 casting every single tournament. Especially ones outside of the US. As a community I think people need to be more open to new casters. It takes awhile to learn the gig. Personnaly I thought the casting was ok and the observing was good.
If the casting is 1st class and the observing is terrible you are in a far worse scenario. I do enjoy pro players casting (TLO, Torch and Demuslim come to mind). However if your at a tournament like Assembly you dont want ot be casting unless your already eliminated..
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The post below will be my personal opinions and feelings so don't link them to the Assembly Organization and the admins of the tournament, I'm just a caster myself.
First things first: I'm sorry about things I said on Saturday, I was really angry that TB didn't get to cast a game I had arranged for him and somehow Martijn and Maven (from now on they will be GLHF#1) joined the game that they weren't supposed to cast. GLHF#1 had the priority to pick games that they wanted to cast and rest of the english speaking casters would choose theirs. They wanted to do Huk vs qxc and Ret vs Naniwa and then they suggested that TB would do the MorroW vs TLO. I thought that when people get to pick a game, they will be the only ones casting it, that's what picking is about right? GLHF#1 had only the priority to choose first, not join every game they wanted especially if the game is set for certain caster.
Anyway even if they were allowed to the game, my concern is: Why didn't they try to hold the game or ask for a regame when the game was going to start so that TB would be able to join it, GLHF#1 definitely knew that he should be there. I'm not saying that they tried to prevent him joining the game, that's was my mistake to say such a thing and I'm sorry about that.
Still they allowed accident to happen and brings me to my point why I'm doing this in public. If we are doing coverage on such a high profile event, we casters really should co-operate, work together and help each other out as much as possible. We really can't work separately or take attitudes like "Each and everyone for his own", it doesn't work and leads to mistakes like this. I don't want this to happen ever again.
So for every caster who was and was not involved in this: In the future while you're doing online and especially offline event, work together, ask help from the others, help each other out if you can, so we can provide the best coverage we can ever give to the Starcraft 2 and eSports -community.
Anyway the event itself was awesome and one of the best experiences I've had my whole life, I hope my Finnish casting was decent enough for you guys out there, see you on the next event <3
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Pararin thank you for the perspective! I really wanted to give Martijn+Maven a good chance at being successful combo, but the chemistry just isn't there...
TLO should've been given a chance to commentate after he fell to MorroW. I feel like well known players who were well received as commentators should have been given a guest seat in the booth.
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On February 14 2011 01:04 znowstorm wrote:
As a community I think people need to be more open to new casters. It takes awhile to learn the gig. Personnaly I thought the casting was ok and the observing was good.
I don't think anyone here will have a problem with new casters as long as they have the right attitude and approach to what they do. Other than a few ultra-hardcore fans, I don't think anybody will cringe or complain every time a caster makes an innocent mistake when reading the game or analyzing strategies on the fly as long as they show some enthusiasm and a general tendency to improve.
The thing is, the GLHF#1 casters just didn't do that. They had zero enthusiasm, in fact they seemed bored and uninterested in each game I've seen. They didn't even try to make casting sound good, or at least it didn't really show. Maybe they just aren't talented enough. And on top of it is the issue with TotalBiscuit that doesn't make them look good at all.
In fact, TB himself is a fairly new and inexperienced SC2 caster, especially when it comes to game knowledge, but look at the kind of support he has as opposed to the two GLHF casters. Or if that example isn't good enough, note the number of people (myself included) that don't understand a word of German and still followed Khaldor's commentary just because he sounds awesome and professional. Fans can see the difference between casters that are enthusiastic and make an effort and those that don't.
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Actually the finnish casting was horrible. I would go into detail but to save some time: casting isn't your thing, casters failed to point out many of the crucial moments because the play-by-play guy was rambling random and useless info while constantly contradicting himself by barely speaking with whole sentences. The analysis guy explained everything like the audience was only bronze-leaguers which even further reduced the usefulness of casting. The event itself was nice, apart from the problems with casters and streams.
User was warned for this post
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Why are people being banned for thinking TotalBiscuit is annoying as a caster?
I also actually think he is too much of a distraction of the game with his obvious gimmicky voice casting.
But too much of day9 wouldnt be good either ofc.
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On February 14 2011 02:51 faylayen wrote:
Why are people being banned for thinking TotalBiscuit is annoying as a caster?
I also actually think he is too much of a distraction of the game with his obvious gimmicky voice casting.
But too much of day9 wouldnt be good either ofc.
Because there is no contribution to the topic by saying "TB SUCK, GET DAY9". Perhaps if people reasoned why TB isn't their favorite caster and why Day9 would be a better choice they wouldnt be banned for it.
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On February 14 2011 02:40 tealc wrote:
Actually the finnish casting was horrible. I would go into detail but to save some time: casting isn't your thing, casters failed to point out many of the crucial moments because the play-by-play guy was rambling random and useless info while constantly contradicting himself by barely speaking with whole sentences. The analysis guy explained everything like the audience was only bronze-leaguers which even further reduced the usefulness of casting. The event itself was nice, apart from the problems with casters and streams.
Please go in detail, I mean I think I have gotten better a lot while doing this and I'm constantly trying to improve. I had my ups and downs during the event and I really wasn't at my best in the end of the day but actually I felt really good about the casts after Grubby games, Imakki vs Jimpo and Sein vs LiveZerg. All criticism is welcome and I appreciate it.
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First:
1) I was one of the people who switched over to the German stream once I discovered it and never returned to the GLHF stream.
2) Overall my view of the GLHF casting was negative.
Some constructive criticism:
1) In defense of GLHF, it seemed like English wasn't the casters native language. In normal conversation they sound like they would speak quite well. But I think when you begin speaking faster, with more enthusiasm, and need to articulate something with more colorful language, it begins to show. They would probably be much better if they were casting in their native languages and if someone else were covering the English stream.
2a) I agree with a lot of people saying that they missed a lot of things that were going on in the game -- and I'm not just talking about the mini-map. There was one point in particular where a Protoss player began researching Hallucination. Both of them were confused (and I think a lot of the audience was also confused), but they just moved on. Then a couple minutes later a small attack was happening at the front of the enemy's expansion and then all of a sudden... "oh, there's an attack." A big group of stalkers was attacking the main base and... the casters just began describing things as they happened on screen. Not once did they make the connection that the Hallucination was used to get vision of the high ground for the stalkers to blink up. Even after that battle was over, I don't think either one of them had any idea how it happened.
2b) I don't think every caster has to be a master league player and/or has to have been playing the original Starcraft for the past decade. I also don't think every caster has to be overly analytical. But I think the biggest difference between those casters and your average casters is that the "SC1 Pros" are able to point out things that will happen 3-4 steps ahead of the action on screen. And while I don't think 3-4 steps ahead is necessary, I do think 1 step ahead is required. In the example with the blink stalkers (above), they failed to meet this requirement. They actually just ignored it, were confused, and I think they were hoping everyone would just ignore it too. (This is just one example.)
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I don't like all this hating on the casters. Sure, there is room to improve, but we really need to be more positive about new casters and give more constructive criticisism instead of just pure vitriol.
My favourite caster all weekend was without a doubt Khaldor. I've forgotten more german than I know, but the excitement was palpable. Good job man! To be fair, I did miss out on totalbiscuit, which I heard was also good.
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If you didn't like some of the casters, just don't watch them. There's no reason to go on the forum and bash them for doing a bad job. There's like 1000 tv shows I don't like, but I don't go to every single tv show and tell them how bad they are. It's a waste of my time. I just don't watch the show. Get my point?
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I didn't really play BW and started playing SCII a couple of months after it came out. Since then I've been watching a ton of casts. It's pretty much what I do instead of watch TV, so I spend a good 2-3 hours a day watching streams or casts. Here are a few things I've noticed that make a good caster:
1) Research the players.
You don't have to know their life story, or know every single tournament they've been in, but have an approximate picture of their achievements (liquidpedia helps) and ladder rank. Ideally, watch a few of their replays on x8 to get a feel to how they play. That may seem like a lot but there aren't that many players out there, and watching more games will help you be a better caster anyway.
2) Don't overextend.
You don't have to know every single build there is, and we don't expect you to know exactly what will happen. It's okay to not know. It's much much more annoying when you pretend you know and are actually wrong. There's nothing that irritates me more than watching a caster make some proclamation about who's going to win a battle, or a strategy being bad when I know for a fact they are 100% wrong. If you're not sure, don't guess, just report what's happening.
3) Plan what you're going to talk about at various points.
When the game starts and the strategies aren't clear, you don't have to be super awkward or try too hard to be funny. Just briefly talk about the map and the players. You don't need to bust out day9 level analysis and talk about attack paths and strategic flows and all that. Just say stuff like, this natural is easy to defend or these positions means air units are good.
During the buildup talk about where each player seems to be headed and talk about what they seem to be planning. Also keep in mind what each player has seen (this is very important and often neglected). For example, just because you see that one player is going void rays doesn't mean his opponent knows, so don't call him an idiot for not making a starport. Try to build up tension during these lulls in the action.
This is also a good time to cycle through the income, army size, and resources lost tab. It's also a good time to talk about tech paths and especially upgrades.
During the battle or drop, just report what's happening. Don't try to predict, don't try to analyze, just say how big the armies look and what's moving where and what's dying to what. That's it. The action is exciting enough, focus on that.
After the battle try to do a quick overview of who won. Check the resources lost tab, bring up harvesters and number of bases, and show what damage was done to each player. Then you can talk about what each player is doing as a followup and what their plans seem to be.
4. Learn the Interface
Watch some replays and practice if you need to. Learn the hotkeys for the various tabs. Know how to switch between player visions quickly, and practice always keeping an eye on the minimap so you don't miss things. More importantly, keep the production tab open at all times, unless you are quickly showing something else and going back to it.
In some situations, like when players are doing a base race or both players have small armies or harvester counts, the unit counting station can be better, but in general, understand that there's nothing more annoying that having the resources tab left open while a crucial tech is being researched and we have no way of seeing it.
Final Thoughts
Remember, your main goal is to enhance the game. Casting isn't standup comedy and it's not a day9 daily. You are live reporting a game that is happening. The best you can do is keep the viewer informed and try not to be annoying, and above all, try not to get in the way of a good game.
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TB is the best caster out there! The rest aren't as smart as they think... in fact most SC pro's aren't that revolutionary in terms of strategy and tactics. They are pro's because they have trained themselves to operate at 250 apm. Its like saying a running back should design the offense. SC Pro's have physical characteristics that make them able to be pro's. Doesn't mean they are the smartest.
Just IMO.... someone like Totalbiscuit knows more than enough about the game to keep you informed, AND he makes the cast more enjoyable and exciting.
I still say... TB and Artosis... thats John Madden and Pat Summerall. Make it happen :D
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ggs really nice tour and lan 
its too bad to read for last few months more and more hate from community to the casters in general, when i watch martijn casts between my weekly rounds i think its great
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Just want to express my personal opinions:
TB is annoying and I don't like his mannerisms (hence I don't watch him).
Maven+Martin were just bad in the Assembly casting.
User was warned for this post
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Grats to Ret. Just watched the Finals and kept my fingers crossed for ret.
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MURICA15980 Posts
Reckless and thoughtless caster bashing is no longer tolerated here. They are an important part of the community and generally volunteer up their time for free or for very little to do these casts. You can give your opinions on them, but be classy about it. Many of them DO read these forums, and quite honestly we'd rather have them here than most of you.
You've been warned.
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I hope they release replays soon thats what I really want, need to see some of rets games ^_^
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On February 14 2011 05:21 blade55555 wrote:
I hope they release replays soon thats what I really want, need to see some of rets games ^_^
Yeh I missed a lot of the games and really want to see them. Specially the game of Grubby which lasted 1,5 hr 
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On February 13 2011 07:40 chumppi wrote:
Guys btw - Assembly.org the event holder will release a replay pack of every game after the event is over, so look forward for it.
Bumping this because I know many are interested. I am so happy to see 2 zergs dominating ! Also, props to Adelscott, need to see how he played this.
edit : also, for those who have watched, does this mean that a Code A training player is above "foreigners" or just that ret is uwsum ?
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EPT
