Hi guys SCL|Moo here and I have been thinking about making a new league, but it is complete different from standard leagues so I want to see what you guys say, and if you would play in it.
The match playing wouldnt be much different, not to much you can do there, just go play. But how its run is where everything changes.
Basically I want to run it almost completely like other proffesional sports leagues are run (nba/nfl/mlb/nhl). For the first season, I would need to find 8-12 DEDICATED managers, these people wouldnt currently need a team. Just dedication. Once we get the managers/owners we would ask for any player that wants to play to put there name "in the pool" and include basic player profile stuff race/current points/times you can play/and a replay or two of your best stuff. Once all the players are in, The managers have a draft, we would spin a wheel or something for the draft order and pick your team, hopefully you would have done some research watching replays and you no who is good. After the draft NO NEW PLAYERS ARE ALLOWED, thinking about considering "trading" if your players just cant get along or something like that.
After all this the season goes along as normal, nothing special regular season plays out, then playoffs crown a champion *woot* and heres why we didnt allow new players, we have a "rookie" draft the teams stay the same , except for the addition of rookies. Rinse and repeat.
Havent worked out specifics but I just want to hear what you guys think, if you like the idea, if you as a player would sign up or as a manager.I no alot of the teams are good friends and its a good time to be together so IDK PLEASE RESPOND tell me what you think
Not allowing new players into your league is a great way for it to stagnate. And you'll also never know if they're the best, when you aren't letting challengers in to defeat them.
I think every tournament should have Open slots, and Seeded slots.
If what I just said has nothing to do with your post, I'm sorry for misreading it.
Lol well it will have new players, they will just have to wait to the end of the season. Which depending on how many managers/players were interested. would probably be 8 weeks, or 12 weeks.
Yes, Dedication and money are the key here. If we can offer some crazy large prize pool. Big name players will want in. But I doubt we can achive this for season 1, so i would need to find random dedicated people
This is E--Sports and SCII not basketball. That system is horrible and completely not only stagnates the player pool but also prevents new hot players from playing. Plus why would players that are already on a team with managers get on a new team? With the influx of the new 40,000 SCII teams out there this would prevent pretty much every medium to high Diamond player on earth from wanting to join because they already have a team.
On November 24 2010 16:43 MooMOo wrote: Yes, Dedication and money are the key here. If we can offer some crazy large prize pool. Big name players will want in. But I doubt we can achive this for season 1, so i would need to find random dedicated people
Good luck breaking up every Pro Team out there for this. Players would not join it as most contractually could not with this silly system. Your league would be filled with players who are neither marketable nor top of the top players.
I like the idea, but I think it would be incredibly difficult to organise for several reasons:
1) you would need to find a lot of super-reliable people who are willing to make a big commitment 2) a lot of these awesome ideas fail because players lose interest or drop out, and the managers end up having problems filling their rosters, which leads to defaults and eventual stagnation 3) no chat channels =/
I'm not saying it's not possible, but there are a lot of potential pitfalls that you would need to avoid and find solutions to.
Edit: actually, the more I think about it the more I think that this kind of thing would be better organised as some kind of clan league. Once chat channels and clans are enabled on Bnet we probably will reach the situation where most mid-high Diamond players are in a clan of some kind. I think it would be much easier to just let clans form naturally and sign themselves up rather than have random individuals act as managers for players they don't even know.
Also, I think the demographic you should be aiming at is high diamond amateurs rather than pros. As an example, Nirvana organised a SEA Nation Wars league a few months ago which was pretty successful, it was basically "every SEA country put together your own team and come play" with weekly matches spanned over a few months. Something like this but for Diamond level clans would be good imo.
On November 24 2010 16:44 iCCup.Diamond wrote: With the influx of the new 40,000 SCII teams out there this would prevent pretty much every medium to high Diamond player on earth from wanting to join because they already have a team..
Every mid-high diamond player already has a team? :| I'd say something like 4%.
On November 24 2010 16:44 iCCup.Diamond wrote: With the influx of the new 40,000 SCII teams out there this would prevent pretty much every medium to high Diamond player on earth from wanting to join because they already have a team..
Every mid-high diamond player already has a team? :| I'd say something like 4%.
Let me rephrase that.
iCCup.Diamond meant to write: Every player that could possibly even matter and make a league like this succeed is signed to one of the 40,000 new SCII teams out there and would not be able nor want to play in this regardless of the $
Not quite as piffy, but technically more correct
Edit: To further my point: I pulled up my SCII after typing this to check for messages and one of the recent broadcast was "I'm forming a new team". Make that 40,001 teams, anyone who's pretty much worth having is signed.
I wouldnt ask the players to leave there team, so unless there contracts say you cant play for anything but us, I dont think it would matter (though i am not at all familar with "sc2 contracts") They would just be on -w.e team- for this league.
On November 24 2010 16:54 MooMOo wrote: I wouldnt ask the players to leave there team, so unless there contracts say you cant play for anything but us, I dont think it would matter (though i am not at all familar with "sc2 contracts") They would just be on -w.e team- for this league.
That defeats the whole purpose of being on their team. Now they are on two teams. The players don't want to represent their team AND another fictional team that gives them no benefits outside of a possible prize pool that only applies to one tournament.
The idea is heavily flawed, sorry to be the bearer of bad news but there is not a chance in hell this would both work and be a very competitive league.
Lol diamond I think we are going to have to agree to disagree, it would definatley be hard, espicially to get started up, and it might not work. But not a chance in hell? There might be something i have yet to think of that makes this impossible but i dont think you have said anything that makes me think that yet. So if you have nothing new to add to this thread I would appreciate you to stop bashing the IDEA as i just said im just putting the idea out there and seeing what the feedback is.
On November 24 2010 16:44 iCCup.Diamond wrote: With the influx of the new 40,000 SCII teams out there this would prevent pretty much every medium to high Diamond player on earth from wanting to join because they already have a team..
Every mid-high diamond player already has a team? :| I'd say something like 4%.
Edit: To further my point: I pulled up my SCII after typing this to check for messages and one of the recent broadcast was "I'm forming a new team". Make that 40,001 teams, anyone who's pretty much worth having is signed.
ICCup.Diamond wrote: That system is horrible and prevents new hot players from playing.
On November 24 2010 16:54 MooMOo wrote: I wouldnt ask the players to leave there team, so unless there contracts say you cant play for anything but us, I dont think it would matter (though i am not at all familar with "sc2 contracts") They would just be on -w.e team- for this league.
That defeats the whole purpose of being on their team. Now they are on two teams. The players don't want to represent their team AND another fictional team that gives them no benefits outside of a possible prize pool that only applies to one tournament.
The idea is heavily flawed, sorry to be the bearer of bad news but there is not a chance in hell this would both work and be a very competitive league.
Why is having two teams a problem? It was already done in a sense with nation wars in BW. Players could play on the national team, in addition to whatever team/clan they were already with.
On November 24 2010 17:03 MooMOo wrote: Lol diamond I think we are going to have to agree to disagree, it would definatley be hard, espicially to get started up, and it might not work. But not a chance in hell? There might be something i have yet to think of that makes this impossible but i dont think you have said anything that makes me think that yet. So if you have nothing new to add to this thread I would appreciate you to stop bashing the IDEA as i just said im just putting the idea out there and seeing what the feedback is.
You do know I sort of have some experience in this industry correct? Trust me, there's no chance in hell.
The teams are not going to let you have their players to be managed by someone else and sport a totally different team name on a whim that a league like this MIGHT work. You mention you need big $, how do you plan on getting big $ with not having any of the top players? Without the top players how do you expect to get the big viewers you need for the $? It's a horribly vicious circle.
I'm not just some random guy tourneycrafting, I have experience in shit like this and I know there is a MASSIVE flaw with your plan and it is based off the very premise of the whole league so that presents an unfixable problem.
On November 24 2010 16:44 iCCup.Diamond wrote: With the influx of the new 40,000 SCII teams out there this would prevent pretty much every medium to high Diamond player on earth from wanting to join because they already have a team..
Every mid-high diamond player already has a team? :| I'd say something like 4%.
Edit: To further my point: I pulled up my SCII after typing this to check for messages and one of the recent broadcast was "I'm forming a new team". Make that 40,001 teams, anyone who's pretty much worth having is signed.
ICCup.Diamond wrote: That system is horrible and prevents new hot players from playing.
I don't mean to harp... but come on :|
There is always a player that comes out of no where. But they are almost 100% of the time picked up within a week by a team.
On November 24 2010 17:06 NrG.ZaM wrote: Why is having two teams a problem? It was already done in a sense with nation wars in BW. Players could play on the national team, in addition to whatever team/clan they were already with.
Nation Wars is 100% different. That's an awful comparison.
I do understand you have experince in this industry. I understand your points, you stated them. Your one opinion, and the ONLY opinion that has been negative so far. As an experinced member of this industry I would hope you understand its bad manners and pretty tacky to continually derail a thread with basically the same post, yeh?
On November 24 2010 17:14 MooMOo wrote: I do understand you have experince in this industry. I understand your points, you stated them. Your one opinion, and the ONLY opinion that has been negative so far. As an experinced member of this industry I would hope you understand its bad manners and pretty tacky to continually derail a thread with basically the same post, yeh?
You asked for feedback, I'm giving you feedback. Pro Players might be inclined to post in a strategy thread as they have a lot of experience on the subject and have their opinion. I happen to be a TO and general league and stream organizer so I happen to pick this because it's a subject that interests me.
After that I reply, you reply to my reply, and I reply to that reply, it's sort of the idea behind message boards. If you only want people to come in here and tell you "GO FOR YOUR DREAMS!!!" and pat you on the back while handing you a cookie, then I'm sorry, I didn't see that in the post.
If you want to make the league, go for it, but it will fail for the exact reasons I listed above. I'm just telling you what I know from my time in the scene.
Edit: Answer this question (hint: it's a trick question)
Why would a player decide to join your league over a league like SGL?
Lol Diamond, you realize I am the head admin of SCL? And to answer your question (last time im responding to you) For fun? Different scene get to play/talk with different people maybe compete agianst teamates for your actual team? That might be a lamesauce answer but then answer me this... Why do people play in leagues like SGL/SCL?
This is a neat idea but I think you are being a little too ambitious if you're not already very experienced with running tournaments and dealing with players/managers. Even running a simple tournament requires a lot of people and a lot of leg work, and until you are familiar with what that work entails and how to manage a team of people to get it done trying for something that aims much, much higher is not totally reasonable.
My advice is to keep this in the back of your mind, then learn how much you are able and willing to handle before trying to look at it more seriously. This is at least 10 times more organizational work than you realize right now.
On November 24 2010 17:27 MooMOo wrote: Lol Diamond, you realize I am the head admin of SCL? And to answer your question (last time im responding to you) For fun? Different scene get to play/talk with different people maybe compete agianst teamates for your actual team? That might be a lamesauce answer but then answer me this... Why do people play in leagues like SGL/SCL?
SCL does not impress me in the least. I didn't even know what SCL was until I just searched it, and I spend ALL DAY staying current in the SCII scene, it's one of the roles of my job. So you can throw that argument right out.
To answer your question: To represent their teams that pay their bills and they play with, train, and talk to on a daily basis. Basically your pulling players not only out of their comfort zones and more importantly out of their contract zones. Trust me, any team worth having their players join this has a clause in their contract that would prevent them from doing so. They represent EG, Root, Liquid, etc, not EG AND Joe Bob's Division Hydralisk Alamo.
With that I am out. If you believe this is a good idea, go for it. But your lack of success in with the SCL should have you looking and worrying about the SCL, it's at least got some potential. This idea however is as bad as an Avilo balance whine thread. You're making a lot of assumptions based on faulty logic and refuse to listen to when people that know the subject on a better level then you tell you otherwise.
I am pretty experinced in running leagues and dealing with players/managers. I ran a warcraft 3 league for several seasons, was a manager for a warcraft 3 team. Ran two different tournaments during SC2 Beta, am a Head admin for SCL, and also a manager for a SC2 team. I am not some silly novice.
Where does the money supply come from in the event that you somewhat succeed?
and which Non-Gentile is going to fund the event?
don't the players need to be payed?
why lock it to only existing players? sc1 teams add new people to their lineup every now and then while some players leave they're often far younger and more powerful potentially...people like jaedong at the time were really new and young and they started doing really well
Made an account just to post this but if you want to run a league involving something like that then you obviously couldn't include proffessional players on actual contracts. There are several legal implications involving that. If you just had a casual league with a certain requirement(1900 diamond + or w/e the number) then it has a higher success rate. You should have a season and then tournaments, within these tournaments new players are allowed to sign up for it but not allowed to participate in the season because they missed the "Draft" so to speak. So that way they can participate in the tournament, possibly get some attention from managers who are looking for more players for the next season so that way they have a better chance of drafting.
1: You had a lot of resources and staff to help kick it off 2: There was not so much leagues currently running in the Sc2 scene
These are just a few that I know of that currently running or about to start up in America.
Starcraft Gaming League (SGL) Collegiate StarLeague (CSL) Starcraft Clan League (SCL) <---- You are here Real Time Strategy League (RTSL) Electronic Sports League (ESL) LaG League (LaG) Axis League (AXL) Major League Gaming (MLG) Nightmare Gaming Project (NGP)
I'm sure that I might have missed a few though. On the plus side many of these leagues have yet to be properly established/are relatively new, so with some good marketing you might be able to muscle your way to the top. Good luck with that on a low budget though.
look at CSL, almost every competitive player that is attending university also plays for their school alongside their organization. this would be something similar, where the players would still be representing their own teams and their teams sponsors. its like at the all star game in any sport, even though the teams are mixed and mashed, you still inherently recognize each player from their normal team, and if that player does well, you still relate his success back to his team. for example when jarome iginla does amazing, i dont start saying 'wow the West Team is awesome theyre my favourite' instead i think the same about Calgary.
for this to be a contractual problem, there would have to be the possibility that a player might have to play against his first team, which frankly is non-existant. as a team owner/manager myself i will encourage all my players to join because it is good publicity for our team and for the players themselves. i dont see any reason why a manager would prevent his players from joining this league
think of this as an all-star league if you will. although it might not get all the best players in north america, it will function with the same concepts, and with players still being 100% loyal to their competitive teams.
It sounds like a good idea but before starting anything shouldn't you hear the words from the actual pro players and how they feel about it. Yes you could say that you do this and that, and predicting that this and that wouldn't happen. But we must hear from the actual people that are going to be playing in this "league" Diamond you can say that this will never happen your points are really good points, but if he does get an OKAY from most of the top teams and players. You can just watch it either crash and burn or rise and may become a big league in North america.
I don't see what advantage this has over the normal team leagues. You said that people would join your league over normal leagues "for fun" which doesn't really make sense since that is just as true for joining normal leagues over your league, and "to get to play/talk with different people maybe compete agianst teamates for your actual team" but you can compete against real teammates in individual tournaments already (ask incontrol about this sometime) and you can talk to the people you are playing against just the same if you are on your team or the other team? I mean I don't see why this couldn't work but I don't think it does anything better than the regular team leagues
EPT
