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On November 05 2010 01:40 Coldviolet wrote:I think it would be hard for SlayerSBoxer to get to finals but if he does, Foxer will own him so hard. (Put down your stones and listen to me, I'm a big fan of Boxer too) Hopetorture and the real Boxer work on buildorder/strategy together. Back in Season1 Hopetorture said that Boxer told him the strategy he used against T on semi-finals. Seeing how Hopetorture's TvT style is so close to Boxer's - tech&banshee - even in season2, right now, Boxer will have a really hard time coming up with a new strategy. And though everyone says Foxer only does mass marines against any races, it's not going to be easy to come up with a strategy to counter against him. Cuz Foxer used mass marines as a 'counter' to a certain player. Foxer sniped both 1st and 2nd placed players of Season1. He knows what he is doing. And that makes it even harder for anyone to come up with vs Foxer strategy because Koreans know that mass marines isn't Foxer true strategy. Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 01:10 PartyBiscuit wrote:On November 05 2010 00:52 ppshchik wrote:On November 05 2010 00:50 syllogism wrote:On November 05 2010 00:49 ppshchik wrote:
Isn't it ironic that the Koreans seem to be more innovative than foreigners in GSL? Especially when they were being stereotyped as macro robots? Three foreigners And other foreigners other than those 3 aren't skilled enough to qualify for GSL to show their innovation. I'm not pro one way or another, but this is pretty stupid. The GSL is in Korea...not as many foreginers have the opportunity to try out there. Not as many participants as Koreans, but we can say that the tops of each region are over there can't we? Dario is definitely one of the best Terrans non-Koreans used to have, and IdrA had like 75% win ratio back in US server but he is around 55%(which is normal) and ranked around #100 on KR. Now IdrA plays against SeleCT and HuK like a toy as you have seen back in MLG&EG league. Let's see what happens in Season3, because Huk and select will be there. If they get to Ro32 I would say they did very, very well.
All boxer really needs to do to be secure early on is scrap the startport banshee and just get quicker siege tech. It's not that much of an adjustment to do away with, or delay banshee tech. If boxer faces foxer in the finals it goes without saying that he'll be adjusting his gameplay based on what he saw foxer do against ITR.
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From my perspective, foxer just outplayed ITR. Look at the game where he puts marines in the path where the first banshee is headed to his expo, that's just knowing timings and being prepared. The micro is just insane, like many people have stated foxer used freaking marines against speed banelings and pulled it off. Foxer is showing probably the best micro I've seen in SC2 thusfar, and it's winning him games. Skill.
and lol @ cheese comments. Sorry, but any build involving an expo after the first rax isn't cheese.
Regardless, FoxeR has won me over this GSL, and is arguably my favorite player currently. I'm pulling for a game 7 win for foxer against boxer, I might just die from happiness. Seeing foxer overcome with emotion after his win vs ITR made me smile from ear to ear.
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Hes won me over. There hasn't been a singel Terran player I've been excisted to see. They are all so standard and boring, playing because its the stronger race. Finally a talented Terran player, really original playing and as long as his oponents can't break his heavy marine play then ofc he should keep doing it! Its bloody entertaining too :D
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On November 05 2010 01:10 PartyBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 00:52 ppshchik wrote:On November 05 2010 00:50 syllogism wrote:On November 05 2010 00:49 ppshchik wrote:
Isn't it ironic that the Koreans seem to be more innovative than foreigners in GSL? Especially when they were being stereotyped as macro robots? Three foreigners And other foreigners other than those 3 aren't skilled enough to qualify for GSL to show their innovation. I'm not pro one way or another, but this is pretty stupid. The GSL is in Korea...not as many foreginers have the opportunity to try out there.
I agree, I think it's more the fact that sponsored foreigners have the insecurity they will succeed in Korea so i doubt any team is pumped to send a couple of members..
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Everyone saying "Fast siege tanks will counter foxer!" is silly. His timing pushes are basically MADE to own that (except when he scouts banshee, then he goes diff).
What a T facing foxer's style should do is blue hellions...
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On November 05 2010 00:25 odaxium wrote:
I think some people forget that he used marines against banelings in his match against Kyrix not because it was the best counter to banelings, but to show people and prove that it could be done.
The match that he lost against ITR on XNC, it's like he tried only marines and no stim just to see if it worked.
Thats bs, he wasnt "trying" anything new, he said himself it was his best build and he lost, it was a legit win by HP
I wonder if HP would have played differently if boxer/nada game didnt happened, he was affected by that banshee build for sure ><
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One step closer to the BoxeR v BoxeR final :D
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foxer's aggressive play is much more entertaining than stubborn banshee first builds or inching tank lines. don't know why so many ppl hatin'
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On November 05 2010 02:03 Sqq wrote:
Hes won me over. There hasn't been a singel Terran player I've been excisted to see. They are all so standard and boring, playing because its the stronger race. Finally a talented Terran player, really original playing and as long as his oponents can't break his heavy marine play then ofc he should keep doing it! Its bloody entertaining too :D
Keep the balance talk out if this topic. Terran strongest race, not anymore and Foxer still destroys. Just like all the other Terrans. I just tried for 2 hours straight to micro against banelings with speed with marines/creep/without creep. It's SO HARD. He gained alot of respect from me.
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It's funny how fake Boxer is the guy in MBC Hero (Clare, Protoss) who almost lost to Hyung Joon. 
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On November 05 2010 02:48 Endorsed wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 02:03 Sqq wrote:
Hes won me over. There hasn't been a singel Terran player I've been excisted to see. They are all so standard and boring, playing because its the stronger race. Finally a talented Terran player, really original playing and as long as his oponents can't break his heavy marine play then ofc he should keep doing it! Its bloody entertaining too :D Keep the balance talk out if this topic. Terran strongest race, not anymore rofl.
"Keep the balance talk out of this topic." -> (immediately makes balance claims).
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On November 05 2010 01:10 syllogism wrote:
I'm mostly hostile towards people making wild conclusions based on a few series, especially when the game is so new and even top players are still figuring things out. Foxer could very well be a stellar player, but until RO32 no one really knew him or rated him highly and he was a no name, admittedly very young, BW player. His micro is certainly impressive.
e: obviously koreans, and idra & co, have played him on ladder and there really wasn't much buzz about him over there either
I think its funny how Artosis and other people keep talking about top of the ladder like it means something in BO3, 5, 7 gameplay. I mean, remember how MinChul (oGsMC, IrOn) was top of the ladder for some time and Tasteosis was oohing and ahhing over it, and he promptly lost in both GSLs. Yes, he is good at laddering, but you have to be able to back it up in tournament style games, which Foxer has done while oGsMC could not.
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Foxer fighting! My new favorite player after knocking out my underdog pick of the tourney KyrixZentih with marines only.
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On November 05 2010 00:26 HeIios wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 00:20 teacash wrote:On November 05 2010 00:10 ppshchik wrote:
This guy raped the 3 best players of each race Cool / Sangho / Hopetorture during his way to the finals and people are discrediting him? Wow.
I don't get this whole "He beat good people therefore you can't criticize his play style" thing... What does this prove, other than he is good at winning? and who denies that he is good at winning? If winning were everything, then fakeBoxeR would look like the king of the world right now.. but winning isn't everything (unless you're a player hungry for a piece of a big prizepool, which GSL viewers are not).. Therefore of course there are legit criticisms to be made of fakeboxer's play so far.. That has to be the silliest comment I've seen today. Winning is EVERYTHING. Why do you think these players abandon school, work and everything else to practice relentlessly? To give you a show that is fit for your liking? I'm sorry my dear Lord but that's not the way it works. How can you NOT be entertained by Foxers amazing control and excellent pushes?
Indeed. This is a competitive game/sport, winning is the sole objective. It doesn't matter how cute your strats are or how the crowd coos when you make a mothership, if you don't play to win then you have a losers mentality and you'll never win anything significant.
If rushes/gimmicky play/'cheese' work for the top players they will use those strats until people figure out how to counter them. Thats how this game evolves and makes it so interesting and dynamic.
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On November 05 2010 03:36 theherder2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 01:10 syllogism wrote:
I'm mostly hostile towards people making wild conclusions based on a few series, especially when the game is so new and even top players are still figuring things out. Foxer could very well be a stellar player, but until RO32 no one really knew him or rated him highly and he was a no name, admittedly very young, BW player. His micro is certainly impressive.
e: obviously koreans, and idra & co, have played him on ladder and there really wasn't much buzz about him over there either I think its funny how Artosis and other people keep talking about top of the ladder like it means something in BO3, 5, 7 gameplay. I mean, remember how MinChul (oGsMC, IrOn) was top of the ladder for some time and Tasteosis was oohing and ahhing over it, and he promptly lost in both GSLs. Yes, he is good at laddering, but you have to be able to back it up in tournament style games, which Foxer has done while oGsMC could not.
I think its funny people talk about like top of ladder means nothing in BO3, 5, 7 gameplay. Mental strength and experience do play a hugely important role, even more so than being top of ladder, but that fact that he is top of ladder should not be discounted.
Plus part of Artosis' job is to hype the match. Him being at top of ladder is something he can use to hype the match.
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Incidentally, IrOn is back on top. He has played relatively few games too so he hasn't just grinded his way up like some.
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On November 04 2010 20:49 Douillos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2010 20:44 gogogadgetflow wrote:
If Foxer vs Nestea, I think Nestea will have to 1base tech to infestors, or just turtle with spines on 2 bases and find a midgame push.
im not sure if larva wise that could do the trick...
you are fine if you scout early (especially vs foxer) make him pull an scv early, 14 hatch 14 gas 13 pool, and prevent the bunker. because of foxers distended timings, you'd force him to play more standard timings to have a shot vs that. he's slower at the start and quicker on evry other push past that. and the starting push is the weakpoint in 14/14/13. and 14/14/13 can get an infestor out by that first push. (i'm counting real pushes and not the 2-4 marine ones that zergs can hold off pretty well by themselves early on) if you suspect a quick attack you 13 pool after the hatch.
then again i'm going Solely off timing and assuming boxer would not adapt to what he sees. and so in that regard its unlikely that you would be as perfectly safe as you would be has he not adapted.
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there was some talk here about the new foreign (outside of asia) players in GSL3 being Select and HuK. But you really, really shouldn't forget about ret. He has like a 76% win ratio on the ladder (see, sc2ranks.com).
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On November 05 2010 03:54 Liveon wrote:
there was some talk here about the new foreign (outside of asia) players in GSL3 being Select and HuK. But you really, really shouldn't forget about ret. He has like a 76% win ratio on the ladder (see, sc2ranks.com).
This is a tangent, but why do most foreign players (clanless) who come to Korea usually join TL? Like HuK and TLO, i mean technically they're oGs affiliated but why don't more foreign players try to join a Korean clan such as Prime or Zenex etc. I mean, Idra was able to find a Korean team without knowing the language so why don't others try?
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EPT
