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On September 20 2010 21:47 Honeybadger wrote:
Calling me a bad player. GG. Obviously we're discussing players much better than ourselves.
I just consider cheesing (and this is obviously just an opinion) to be bad sportsmanship, and an act of desperation by players who don't deserve to be where they are. There's no resource management. No risk assessment, no cost benefit analysis (something TLO is pretty genius at) and it's just a basic attempt to turn a STRATEGY game into a round of counter-strike with an AWP.
Sure it's all about the money, and I know these guys are doing it for their living. But the koreans also shun poor sportmanship following a win or a loss, but don't care about how they get to that win or loss? It's akin to the kamikaze attacks of WWII, the burning of Dresdin, or the attack against pearl harbor (obviously these are tactical analogies, not relating a video game to war!) No honor in such tactics.
Cheese is part of the game and a viable strategy.
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On September 20 2010 21:48 Wolfpox wrote:
There's nothing wrong with bitching about cheese. It's lame, not entertaining, and even the player himself said he was ashamed of it.
Trying to seem unbiased and neutral is pretentious in this case. Just be honest, it was terrible and lame.
Wasn't Boxer entertaining and very popular because of some of his cheesey play?
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SC2 is a dirty game and the pros play to win, not for our entertainment.
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So let me ge it straight , you can have various builds and units but some of you want to see the very same builds , with the very same units and the very same strats in each game wheres the fun.
The best player is the one who from the 100 builds can use all of them to win.
Hyper won tlo straight up in macro game and won in a cheese game stop been blindfold funboys i dont like cheese as well but i blame blizzard for making it to ostrong
fyi tlo used cheese builds all the time in beta and got labeled creative for that.
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haha, wouldn't be a live report thread without approximately 30 gallons of tears and excuses as to why their favourite player lost. Sucks to see TLO go out, though.
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great call by hyperdub to go for cheese in the last game. definatley not an easy decision if you are playing a team AND housemate! but as in any serious competition: never softplay your friends 
TLO played great though, hope he will qualify for the next season again
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On September 20 2010 21:51 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2010 21:48 Wolfpox wrote:
There's nothing wrong with bitching about cheese. It's lame, not entertaining, and even the player himself said he was ashamed of it.
Trying to seem unbiased and neutral is pretentious in this case. Just be honest, it was terrible and lame. yes it is. because this is a live report thread not a "I whine because my favorite player got cheesed" thread. Noone wants to read it, just keep it to yourself and live with it.
I enjoy reading the whines
u mad?
and btw, aren't you whining about ppl whining? LOLZ pzpzpzpz
User was warned for this post
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United States3214 Posts
On September 20 2010 21:48 Wolfpox wrote:
There's nothing wrong with bitching about cheese. It's lame, not entertaining, and even the player himself said he was ashamed of it.
Trying to seem unbiased and neutral is pretentious in this case. Just be honest, it was terrible and lame.
Actually, there is plenty wrong with bashing all Koreans OR TLO's fucking teammate (because people seem to have forgotten this small fact).
Angry nerds posting hate about oGs or ANYONE in the Korean scene doesn't do anything for this site or Team Liquid. Like I said, go scream into your pillows next time. No one wants to hear your bullshit.
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Games where a player cheeses but doesn't win instantely very often end up to be very entertaining and innovative so cheese is not as bad for the spectators as some make it sound
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On September 20 2010 21:51 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2010 21:48 Wolfpox wrote:
There's nothing wrong with bitching about cheese. It's lame, not entertaining, and even the player himself said he was ashamed of it.
Trying to seem unbiased and neutral is pretentious in this case. Just be honest, it was terrible and lame. yes it is. because this is a live report thread not a "I whine because my favorite player got cheesed" thread. Noone wants to read it, just keep it to yourself and live with it.
you just need people's favorite player to cheese in an important match to bring em on board.
I love cheese, i absolutely do, because i grew up in a time of Boxer and NalRa and when they played, cheese was not cheese but the beautiful strategical move. You think oh Hyperdub proxy raxed and hoped for the best. I think Hyperdub played TLO in 2 games and saw him open with a strategy that is extremely vulnerable to early game agression and capitalized on that.
unless its a zerg that gets cheesed ofc!:D Then its OP!^_^
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why are people saying cheese is boring? tester vs freesaga game 3 was the best sc2 game i've ever seen in my life
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ro16 race distribution:
7 Protoss
7 Terran
2 Zerg
5 TvP
1 PvP
2 TvZ
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On September 20 2010 21:54 The_DjiN wrote:great call by hyperdub to go for cheese in the last game. definatley not an easy decision if you are playing a team AND housemate! but as in any serious competition: never softplay your friends TLO played great though, hope he will qualify for the next season again
I don't know about you, but I usually more of a dick when I play my friends >:0.
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im so sad! bad luck for TLO. He even scouted the wrong way. looks like it wasnt meant to be. gg
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I kinda wanted that interview. I hope artosis gives us one of our own.
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For all you guys bashing on Hyperdub haters, at least take a step back and think about what just happened for a second, i wouldn't argue whether or not Hyperdub is the better player. But That WAS the most amazing series ever so far in the history of SC2, after the miraculous come back of TLO after game one i believe we all experience the hype, rush and excitement we haven't felt before for an SC2 games before, its only natural us fans gets worked up that such an entertaining player is eliminated and some still can't get over with that fact and needed to vent such frustrations, and you guys that bashing the people that is finding a reason or target of venting (IE Hyperdub). isn't exactly helping but making these threads looks worse...
everyone just chill for a second and let the fact sink on TLO fans.
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On September 20 2010 21:49 Voros wrote:Show nested quote +People throw around the word "creative" way too much when referring to him too.
When other people do unorthodox builds, they're instantly labeled noob, but when TLO does it he's some sort of genius. The TLO affection is because he's completely unorthodox in every facet of his play. Whereas the rest of us plebeians drill build orders and timings and non-ridiculous hotkey setups, TLO seems to just wing games with no real order to any facet of his play. Then, miraculously, order arises out of chaos. He's like Jackson Pollock in an art world that has only seen classicists. Combine his game sense and improvisation with Idra's mechanical skill and you have the perfect SC2 player.
They both lack in micro, scouting and 'game sense', mostly because they have macro backgrounds and are so young.
TLO always scouts close air on Metalopolis. Well maybe he learns for next time as this - imo - retarded scout cost him the game.
If you scout no rax you know its either reapers or marines, with marines being more common.
You insta start a bunker and put 1 SCV down your ramp to know when to pull SCVs. When you have your SCVs as meatshields blocking the marines from coming up the ramp to kill the marines / bunker constructing SCV, you have won the game. They will not be able to do significant dmg and 2 marines with DPS support by the SCVs can take down 5 marines or at the very least stall them good enough.
As Hyperdub said, he knew that TLO was focused on winning and therefore thought that a quick cheese would win him the game. Well played. I'm mostly hating on TLO for botching 2 games so quickly after that amazing g1.
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United States3214 Posts
On September 20 2010 21:55 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:
ro16 race distribution:
7 Protoss
7 Terran
2 Zerg
5 TvP
1 PvP
2 TvZ
That is actually an EXCELLENT spread of MU's considering the races break down.
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I'll never understand the hate people have against "cheese", ie rush strategies. They are part of the game, and keep things interesting, plus they are no more cheesy and unstable then super econ oriented fast teching builds. They are part of the game, and cheesing or fast teching are ways of keeping your opponent honest. It's much like poker, where sometimes you need to throw out some bluffs against opponents that are playing too tight in order to get them to call, or call some hands you where you think you are probably beat. In short cheese is an integral part of the game.
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+ Show Spoiler +On September 20 2010 21:48 lolnoty wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2010 21:47 sc2lime wrote:On September 20 2010 21:39 JWD wrote:On September 20 2010 21:37 Lovedrop wrote:
Games done, streams offline, no interview. Only pointless bickering in here, close thread please. Nah, we'd rather just use the thread as a trap for idiot posters. There are about 10 mods lurking around here now, waiting for the morons to reveal themselves! (Whenever something dramatic or controversial happens, the morons come out in droves. They can't help themselves.) Is it quite necessary to repeatedly use that tone regarding certain users here? Aren't you a mod and should be professional about this? Being a professional indicates they get paid for doing this which they don't. Also yes that is the right tone because that is how posters on TL get when a fan favorite loses.
Not anywhere did I talk about being a "professional" in the sense that since they don't get paid, they shouldn't act professional and without manner. I'm just referring to it as since they moderate these forums to stop flaming, that they themselves shouldn't be using hateful terms when it is uncalled for.
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EPT
