• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
TeamLiquid Liquipedia LiquidDota LiquidLegends
EDT 05:30
CEST 11:30
KST 18:30
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL14] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Speedrunning1WTL 2022 Summer - Playoffs Preview4Farewell CCL: Season 4 Recap1WTL 2022 Summer - Regular Season Awards + Week 119[ASL14] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Long Awaited15
Community News
ESL Open Cup #135: ByuN, MaxPax, Solar win0Code Season 3 (2022) - RO20 groups announced61GSL S3 2022 Qualifier Cast (AfreecaTV)2Team NV to disband after WTL 2022 Summer26[TSL 9] Live finals update - Neeb, TIME, Barcrafts16
StarCraft 2
General
Post WTL 2022 Summer Transfer Season Code Season 3 (2022) - RO20 groups announced Team NV to disband after WTL 2022 Summer 2022 GSL S2 Chatting Event ESL Open Cup #135: ByuN, MaxPax, Solar win
Tourneys
ITaX Trovo Series#26 - ByuN, Rogue, soO & Cure AfreecaTV Theatre of Dreams ($5,600) Announcing $5,000 G-FUEL Gladiators' Cup [WTL 2022] Summer - Playoffs LTK Invitational Team League
Strategy
PvT macro builds Terran Mule Timing wankery What should I try to work on to improve my TvZ Maru Offensive Widow Mine Drop
Custom Maps
StarLance | Extension Mod – Multiplayer LotV [M](4) Typhoon [A] SC Real Scale
External Content
Mutation # 330 Ulnar New Year Mutation # 329 Attrition Warfare Mutation # 328 Overclocked Mutation # 327 Temple of Rebirth
Brood War
General
[ASL14] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Speedrunning The future of starcraft broodwar BSL Season 15 - Continental Championships [ASL14] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Long Awaited BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL14] Ro24 Group D [CPL8] Coach Pupil League-End Of Season Statistics [RCG 2021] Final Bracket - August 13 & 14 6pm CEST [ASL14] Ro24 Group C
Strategy
PvT advise for noobs Battery control [PvP] How to defend vs. 2 gate zealot into nexus Project: Strat Update
Other Games
General Games
Diablo IV Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Final Fantasy XIV Total War: Warhammer III
Dota 2
Official Dota and Chess General Discussion PGL Arlington Major [DPC 21-22] Tour 3 Discussion/LR TL.net migration megathread + LiquidDota archive
League of Legends
[Summer Split] LoL Esports General Discussion [Patch Notes] Release General Discussion
Heroes of the Storm
HotS: WP and Funny Moments Farewell CCL: Season 4 Recap Time of the Season: X-Cup Summer Preview The New Kings of Paris: MCC Finals Recap
Hearthstone
TL Mafia
Chezinu streak(s) Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread British Empire Mini Mafia II
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Coronavirus and You NASA and the Private Sector YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The Flash Fan Club The herO Fan Club! INnoVation Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion Anime Discussion Thread [TV] HBO's Westworld
Sports
2022 - 2023 Football Thread NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story 2021 - 2022 Football Thread
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread The Ultimate Mouse Thread Windows won't boot from cloned SSD
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Namkraft's ASL 14 ENG casts…
namkraft
Regarding teenagers and …
mantequilla
New EG Roster
cmsimon
Programming Without Addera…
codonbyte
Royal Tyrell Museum in Drumhe…
JimmiC
Great mix of RTS and tu…
AiHEADHUNTER
Chicken shit
Starlightsun
Montenegro Tower Construction …
Tak3r
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1248 users

[PBOTW] Classic's Modern Stargate into Archon Drop

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
8 CommentsPost a Reply

[PBOTW] Classic's Modern Stargate into Archon Drop

Text byTL Strategy
July 19th, 2018 03:44 GMT
An Introduction[PvZ]Classic's Stargate into Archon dropBuild Explanation & Example GamesArchon Drops and Keeping Things SimpleVariations & Example Games

Introduction


Hey guys, my name is Gemini and I'm a Grandmaster Protoss player who has been making guides since 2011 on various sites. The Build of the Week is my most popular series of build order guides that I've been making for about three years now on /r/allthingsprotoss. With the help of TeamLiquid.net and Spawning Tool I'm now bringing my guides over to TL as well!

Each write-up includes build order notes, an explanation/analysis of how the build works, and a VOD section so you can check out the source game and how it should go. I'll also include the Spawning Tool link so that you can practice it in game yourself and download the replay of me doing it. I hope you enjoy and be sure to read the whole write-up before asking any questions as I'm sure some of them will be answered in here!

How to use Spawning Tool
Link to the Spawning Tool Build
Link to /r/allthingsprotoss Guide.

[PvZ]Classic's Modern Stargate into Archon drop


While I've already written an oracle into archon drop BotW, it was very shortly after patch 4.0 came out. There have been some slight modifications to how the build is executed. I will be labeling the previous BotW as 'outdated' but it's still definitely 'usable' (since it is technically safer).

The version of the build I'm presenting this week has been widely used throughout the Korean and foreign scenes. This specific version I've seen Classic do as early as IEM Katowice. I cribbed the build for myself back then and found that he's still using it mostly unchanged, as recently as his GSL RO16 match vs Dark. Despite Roach openers still being prevalent in the meta, Archon drops can still find ways to do damage and can be used as a great time buying mechanism to help you get into the mid-game vs Zerg. Due to this, they still remain very popular.

Stargate into Archon drop
14Pylon [@100% --> Chrono]
16Gate [Chrono Nexus]
17Gas --> Rally in
20Nexus
20Cyber
212nd Gas
22Pylon
@100% Cyber --> Adept [Chrono]
26Stargate
@50 Gas --> WG
@100% Adept --> 2nd Adept
@100% Stargate --> Phoenix [Chrono] --> Oracle
40Pylon
412nd Gate
3:30 2x Gas
463rd Adept (Optional)
3:50 Robo
4:00 Twilight Council
52Pylon
4:25 2x Gate
@100% Robo --> Warp Prism [Chrono] --> Obs
@100% Twilight --> Charge + Templar Archives
5:00 3rd Nexus
5:15 Forge
4x HT Warp In --> 2x Archon
5:40 2x Gate
@100% Obs --> Constant Immortal production
If vs ling/bane (and or hydra) opener:
6:00 Storm
6:20 2x Gate
7:00 2x Gate
If vs roach opener:
6:00 2nd Robo
6:40 2x Gate
6:50 Storm


Build Explanation & Example Game



Classic vs Dark - GSL Code S S2 Ro16: Here we see the faster Robo to deal with the roach opening.


Since I mentioned that this is the modern version of this build, I'll compare it to the old version and explain how the new version is better.

One of the main developments that has come up over the last few months has been the increase of Phoenix-first openers in PvZ. As I've mentioned in a lot of recent guides, you open Phoenix to kill deny early Overlord scouting while following up with a Oracle. Stargate unit production stops right there as you don't really need anything else. Earlier builds went for Oracle first, often followed by double-Oracle to try and deal more Drone damage (that went out of fashion as Zergs became so good at dealing with early Oracles, so players just got their Archon drop tech faster instead). Also, back then, Protoss players were less refined in dealing with early Zerg pressure, so there was a greater need to play safer. An extra Pylon and extra Gateway were made so that there would be three Gateways when Warp Gate research finished. That second Oracle, Gateway, and Pylon from previous versions of this build made it so that Archon drop-tech was 30 seconds slower than in the modern version.

Now that Protoss players are better at scouting with the first Adept and dealing with any subsequent all-ins, they are allowed to cut more corners to get things out faster. The expansion gasses now go down at 3:30 instead of 4:00. The Robotics facility is warped in at 3:50 instead of 4:15, and the Twilight Council is started at 4:00 instead of 4:30. Instead of having you first pair of Archons warp in at 6:00, you can have them at 5:30.

The third Nexus ends up being warped-in at around the same time as before, but the modern version of the build gets faster Zealot Charge research right after the Twilight Council is done (instead of the much later 5:30). The Forge can also can be made slightly earlier at 5:15 instead of 5:30 here.

So basically, you get everything earlier in a much more efficient manner all because you rearrange some things and cut out one Oracle. That's a pretty good deal if you ask me. The follow up also becomes easier since with faster gasses, Storm research is started much quicker while Immortal production can be sustained for much longer. With Charge finishing so quickly it's much easier to hold off early busts at your third base, and the faster Archon drop can keep Zerg pinned back for a longer period of time.

As explained in the previous [urlhttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/534460-pbotw-zests-double-stargate-phoenix]Double-Stargate Phoenix BotW[/url], there are new developments to the Zerg mid-game that make your tech follow-ups depend on what you scout. Usually, you would get Storm ASAP after the Archon drop to defend against any Hydra-Ling or Hydra-Bane attacks. But with Roaches continuing to be so popular, many Protoss have altered the follow-up slightly to go into an earlier 2nd Robotics Facility while delaying Storm. This allows you to get a substantially larger number of Immortals out to defend vs any early Roach-Ravager or Roach-Hydra attacks, while still getting Storm at a relatively reasonable timing. Since Immortals are so resource intensive, they'll cut into your Gateway count and force you to play more defensively in general (moving out without storm can be quite risky). Instead, you can put some extra resources into some cannons and/or shield batteries to really make sure you stay alive vs any Zerg busts and propel yourself hard into the late game. As I mentioned in the previous BotW, if the opponent did go for a more Hydra focused style then having more Templars and Archons is a higher priority.

In addition, here are some rough benchmarks to go by when trying this build out:

  • If vs ling/bane (and or Hydra) opener: Storm done @7:00 w/4 High Templars, 1 Immortal w/1 in production, other supporting units, 2 Archons, 64 Probes, 6 Gates w/2 in production, +1 75% done
  • If vs Roach opener: Storm done @8:00 w/4 HT, 5-7 Immortals, other supporting units, 67 Probes, 6-8 Gates, +2 started


When I was learning this build, I found my transition to 3-base wasn't smooth and that I losing a lot at that stage. I figured out that I wasn't prioritizing Storm and High Templars enough, as I would usually get a Sentry or two for defense, and then even morph some Archons before properly going into Storm. This delayed my tech far too much, so I suggest you keep that in mind. You really don't need to worry so much about early-game defense that you delay the rest of your tech. The Archon drop should do well enough to keep the Zerg back, and the Zealots, Adepts, and single Oracle you have will usually be a strong enough early force.

On that note, it's also important that I explain the nuances of the Archon drop itself and to emphasize how important the concept of simplification is when it comes to players in lower leagues.

Archon Drops and Keeping Things Simple



The reason why Archon drops are so strong is because they are the most efficient way to put on pressure, dissuade the Zerg from attacking you, and setting up your tech. Going for Archon drop means you already have the tech in place to follow-up with Psionic Storm and Charge. The fast Robotics Facility makes it so you can get Immortals out quickly to deal with early pressure. The drop itself can do some decent damage if the Zerg is not paying attention or is sloppy in their defense. Unless they are doing some sort of 50-drones-or-less all-in, they must commit some amount of their forces and attention to defense so that the Archon drop doesn't kill every Queen and Drone. In combination with an Observer, it's also a great creep clearing mechanism since two Archons one shot a creep tumor. On top of all of that, Archons are also extremely Tanky. They have 350 shields each (which do not take any bonus damage), so the drop is naturally sustainable since they will be recharging all of those shields.

Despite all these wonderful benefits, not every person who plays StarCraft II has the multitasking and APM to properly pull off Archon drops while macroing well back home. This is where an important reminder needs to be stated for the vast majority of the player base.

If you CANNOT do something properly while macroing behind it then it is OK to NOT do it.

If trying to juggle the Archon drop with getting your Storm transition right and not getting supply blocked and keeping up with Probe production, then DON'T try to do it. Be as active as you reasonably can, at your current level of multi-tasking. It's important to remember that simply macroing better will win you the game far more often than some cute tricks will, at nearly every level of play.

For some players, it might be better to just use Archons defensively, if it means making sure you expand on time and continue building up your infrastructure without delay. If you are more comfortable keeping the Archons at home and macroing twice as well as you would while dropping, then focus on that instead. It's much more important that you allow yourself to scale up and spend your resources than it is trying your hardest to kill off Creep tumors and snipe a Queen. If you just macro better and the Zerg tries to do some attack then you will simply hold it off by having the defensive set up and a better managed economy.

Just because I say that the pros do all these things in the build doesn't mean you need to do them as well. As I mention in the link posted up top, builds should be treated as guidelines. They are meant to give you a path to follow that makes sense and keep you out of the scary unknown forest of limitless strategical possibilities.

Regardless, once the Archon drop stops finding windows to pressure, it's better to send the Archons home and leave the Prism for chargelot warp-ins later on in the game. Once there's a sizable army out for the Zerg that can easily contest the Archon drop wherever it goes, it's more valuable to join the Archons with the main army (against skilled Zergs, the most significant direct damage Archon drops will get a chance to do is denying creep anyway).

Variations and Example Games



The build that I've shown only includes four gateways: Just enough for two Archons to warp in in an efficient manner. However, there is also a Six gate version of this build as well. Classic showed this variation at the very beginning of the GSL season and its incredible aggressive potential. The build is exactly the same but you get four extra Gateways instead of two and halt Probe production at 46 instead of keeping it consistent. The 3rd base is still taken (albeit slightly later) and some extra Zealots are warped in before the Archons that can be sent around to the 3rd base as the Archon drop hits. This leads to a very strong double pronged attack that the Zerg needs to be paying close attention to. If they don't assess the threats correctly and split their army accordingly, you can do a lot of damage that snowballs extremely quickly.

Trap also showed that you can do a defensive six gate version as well. On the same day as Classic using this four gate version, Trap played against Dark as well and simply got the Nexus 30 seconds later, but had the potential two extra gateways. These could have been used aggressively if Trap noticed Dark was under prepared and they could have also been used defensively if Dark had been going for a much more aggressive option. So if you still feel unsafe taking that 3rd base with so little units, perhaps the six gate version could be beneficial to you so that you can expand with some stress lifted off your mind as you know you have a larger production potential vs early attacks.


Classic vs Elazer - GSL Code S S2 Ro32: This is the 6 gate version that kills Elazer early.



Trap vs Dark - GSL Code S S2 Ro16: This is Trap doing the defensive 6 gate version. His mid game follow up is a bit different though as he skips storm entirely to get a much faster Mothership and Carrier transition while being extra defensive with archon/immortal.


Thank you all for reading and if you have any questions/comments please leave them below and I'll try to get to all of them!

Brought to you by the TL Strategy Team in collaboration with Overwolf and Spawning Tool.


Facebook Twitter Reddit
RealityTheGreat
Profile Joined January 2018
China561 Posts
July 19 2018 05:20 GMT
#2
Good job
Betrayed, forgotten, abandoned.
Kurao
Profile Joined April 2018
215 Posts
July 19 2018 17:22 GMT
#3
Excellent as always
yubo56
Profile Joined May 2014
573 Posts
July 20 2018 04:34 GMT
#4
The classic modern pun has to be intentional right? I feel like the ever witty GG emini must have put it in intentionally but there's no cheeky sentence rubbing it in
Jung Yoon Jong fighting, even after retirement! Feel better soon.
delvier
Profile Joined January 2012
Poland1 Post
July 20 2018 14:39 GMT
#5
Gemini thank you for your hard work. I found myself loosing a lot with new builds but after all I have another build to cycle through and be more elastic player. Overwhelming the opponent with new builds that recently was just your worst gives a lot of satisfaction.
Si So
Stallion
Profile Joined November 2010
New Zealand67 Posts
July 21 2018 00:28 GMT
#6
Loved this write up now use these to great effect
Gemini_19
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1197 Posts
July 21 2018 03:42 GMT
#7
Happy to hear <3
@GGemini19 GM Protoss | http://www.twitch.tv/geminisc2 | I <333 HerO & Trap | Check out my Build of the Week series on /r/allthingsprotoss, TL, or Spawning Tool
Dumbledore
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden725 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-23 14:36:17
July 23 2018 14:36 GMT
#8
It says PvP on the front page I got really confused reading the title.
I thought there was a sick new PvP build
Have a nice day ;)
brickrd
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
United States4894 Posts
July 23 2018 14:45 GMT
#9
On July 23 2018 23:36 Dumbledore wrote:
It says PvP on the front page I got really confused reading the title.
I thought there was a sick new PvP build

only one way to find out, go drop archons in pvp :D
TL+ Member
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 31m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Reynor 365
Livibee 326
ROOTSuperNova 281
Zoun 206
ProTech121
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 4769
Horang2 4126
GuemChi 2634
PianO 1814
Larva 973
Mong 917
Zeus 863
Rush 350
EffOrt 288
Free 112
[ Show more ]
Sacsri 94
Killer 43
Dewaltoss 40
Noble 16
Iris 2
Oya187 0
Dota 2
XBOCT3590
EternaLEnVy2177
monkeys_forever843
XcaliburYe757
febbydoto125
Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
officialf0rest2772
Other Games
singsing1888
ceh91113
crisheroes968
DeMusliM635
Happy380
AxAlicia21
Organizations
Dota 2
BeyondTheSummit226
StarCraft 2
Esl_sc2171
ESL.tv171
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Light_VIP 23
• nightgamer69 3
• Gussbus
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Poblha
• Alpha X_
• angryscii 0
• aXEnki
• Migwel
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamez Trovo
StarCraft: Brood War
• sscaitournament1
• STPLYoutube
• BSLYoutube
• AfreecaTV YouTube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV617
League of Legends
• Rush7688
• Ambition2835
• Stunt514
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
31m
Soulkey vs TBD
JyJ vs sSak
WardiTV Summer Champion…
2h 31m
ByuN vs Rattata
Cure vs Reynor
BeAsT Cup
7h 31m
GSL Qualifier
13h 31m
Creator vs GuMiho
soO vs GuMiho
RagnaroK vs Ryung
Scarlett vs Ryung
Astrea vs KeeN
Solar vs KeeN
Reynor vs Zoun
Zoun vs SpeCial
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d
Afreeca Starleague
1d
Snow vs HiyA
Shine vs Jaedong
GSL Qualifier
1d 13h
DongRaeGu vs ByuN
DongRaeGu vs Armani
Armani vs Dream
SpeCial vs GuMiho
Armani vs SpeCial
Scarlett vs Cure
Classic vs Nice
Nice vs Prince
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Rush vs free
Mong vs Horang2
BeAsT Cup
2 days
Online Event
3 days
[ Show More ]
ESPOT SC2 Circuit
4 days
BSL 2v2 ProLeague
4 days
ESL Pro Tour
4 days
ESL Pro Tour
6 days
ESL Pro Tour
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Ultimate Battle: RoyaL vs ZerO
WTL 2022 Summer
Community Clash League S4
WePlay Academy League S5

Ongoing

GAN Race Survival Season 5
KCM Ladies Race Survival 2022 Season 3
ASL Season 14
KCM Race Survival 2022 Season 3
BSL Season 15: ChoboLeague
BSL Season 15: HasuLeague
Luck Over Strength
FS Mania
STL37
Screw Me Up Bro
LASL Season 14
CSL season 6 Summer Cup
Future Cup 5 (U18)
DSSL 15
TSL 9
WardiTV Summer 2022
NGS Storm Division S5

Upcoming

Deathfate Pro League 4
Deathfate Pro Team League 2
StarClash 0828 CHN vs KOR Week10
StarClash 0821 CHN vs KOR Week9
DDS36: Sziky vs. Zhanhun
IEM Katowice 2023
HSC XXII
2022 GSL: ST 2
DH Masters Atlanta
2022 GSL S3: Code S
Gladiators' Cup
Heroes International
Heroes Int. - NA LC Qual.
Heroes Int. - NA Qual. 2
Heroes Int. - EU LC Qual.
Heroes Int. - EU Qual. 2
Heroes Int. - NA Qual. 1
Heroes Int. - EU Qual. 1
IEM Rio Major 2022
IEM Rio 2022: AME RMR
IEM Rio 2022: EU RMR B
IEM Rio 2022: EU RMR A
IEM Rio 2022: APAC RMR
ESL Challenger Melbourne 2022
ESL Pro League Season 16
ESL Challenger League S42 EU
BLAST Premier Fall Groups
ESL Challenger League S42 AP
ESL Challenger League S42 NA
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2022 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.