So I'm in gold league and I'm doing ok but my TvZ needs work. I went Bio and got rolled so in the next game against Zerg I decided to go Mech (I haven't played in a few months and I got placed in gold so I have only had 2 matches against zerg since I started again).
I was doing great, winning exchanges, gaining map control, ripping through the creep tumors. All was going swimmingly and the Zerg knew he had to change something up. And then it happens. The un-scouted spire and the Mutaball. Now I destroyed about half of the initial Mutaflock with two seeker missles from my trusty ravens but I only had two ravens at the time, I feel like if I had 6-7 I would have easily won this game and dismantled this Zerg slowely and efficiently.
I don't feel like Vikings are the best choice to counter Mutas when I know that the Mutas aren't going to base race me. That being said if they attacked at home, Vikings could get there much faster, but I did have a few turrets up that would buy me some time to get back home. The detection the Ravens gave me early game saved me from burrowing roach gimmicks and I really like Ravens in general so I feel like I'm going to stick with them against Zerg over Vikings or other AA unless you guys convince me I'm totally wrong.
So what do ya say? Maybe add a few more Ravens and be good to go?
You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
Ok, I will give that build a try He went Roach/Hydra but I was lacking AA and ripping his ground army to pieces, so he did the quick switch and the only thing that hurt them for me was my two Ravens. I will add Vikings earlier against Zerg for this build. It is pretty safe to assume that a Gold level Zerg will at some point have a Mutaball.
Well, the mass raven style in tvz is generally is about taking the game in two stages. Stage one is securing roughly half the map and adding as much defence there as to become invincible, especially when combined with mass Raven PDD. When you zerg cannot attack you, you move into stage 2 which is slowly creeping forwards with tanks and ravens and stuff, constantly picking away at his stuff until he runs out of money. Should take an hour or until the zerg runds out of patience.
I feel like I have seen Avilo do this? My only question is how do I ensure they don't come in the backdoor with mutas or nydus and base race? But I guess having a lot of missel turrets in key positions back home will keep them out. Setup the turrets, Ravens with PDD, and initiate phase 2.
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
have you ever played sc2 before? with ravens you can defend your base with the auto turrets and pdd really well, also single hsms scare the flock away. if you are at 10+ raven you can constanstly cast 1-2 missles and force the mutas away or they take huge losses.
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
have you ever played sc2 before? with ravens you can defend your base with the auto turrets and pdd really well, also single hsms scare the flock away. if you are at 10+ raven you can constanstly cast 1-2 missles and force the mutas away or they take huge losses.
On topic, turrets are definitely the way to go, and reliable AA rather than ravens (thors and/or viking). Also, keep in mind that mutas can never engage mech, particularly once that mech army has a few ravens for PDD, so you can always opt to put down 5000 turrets and win the base trade
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
have you ever played sc2 before? with ravens you can defend your base with the auto turrets and pdd really well, also single hsms scare the flock away. if you are at 10+ raven you can constanstly cast 1-2 missles and force the mutas away or they take huge losses.
Lol, I like the fact that u are lecturing a pro.
he is not even top100 world. also the individual skill has only indirectly to do with theorycrafting. otherwise artosis would be way higher on the ladder.
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
have you ever played sc2 before? with ravens you can defend your base with the auto turrets and pdd really well, also single hsms scare the flock away. if you are at 10+ raven you can constanstly cast 1-2 missles and force the mutas away or they take huge losses.
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
have you ever played sc2 before? with ravens you can defend your base with the auto turrets and pdd really well, also single hsms scare the flock away. if you are at 10+ raven you can constanstly cast 1-2 missles and force the mutas away or they take huge losses.
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
have you ever played sc2 before? with ravens you can defend your base with the auto turrets and pdd really well, also single hsms scare the flock away. if you are at 10+ raven you can constanstly cast 1-2 missles and force the mutas away or they take huge losses.
no, please teach me sensei.
is this your full ability to discuss? this is a strategy forum, what are you doing here with this attitude?
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
have you ever played sc2 before? with ravens you can defend your base with the auto turrets and pdd really well, also single hsms scare the flock away. if you are at 10+ raven you can constanstly cast 1-2 missles and force the mutas away or they take huge losses.
no, please teach me sensei.
is this your full ability to discuss? this is a strategy forum, what are you doing here with this attitude?
Well you started your own argument with "Have you ever played sc2 before?"...Anyway I think Terran has it good in gold/plat level against mutas.I play toss and I constantly find it impossible to fend off mutas without phoenixes even though my games are far from the highest level
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
have you ever played sc2 before? with ravens you can defend your base with the auto turrets and pdd really well, also single hsms scare the flock away. if you are at 10+ raven you can constanstly cast 1-2 missles and force the mutas away or they take huge losses.
no, please teach me sensei.
is this your full ability to discuss? this is a strategy forum, what are you doing here with this attitude?
Well you started your own argument with "Have you ever played sc2 before?"...Anyway I think Terran has it good in gold/plat level against mutas.I play toss and I constantly find it impossible to fend off mutas without phoenixes even though my games are far from the highest level
EDIT: Not impossible but reaaally hard
i think its harder with toss because you have less range and need to be more active. terran can also set up mines, but stalker or storm are just not the same thing as thors or vikings anti air
Even though Ravens might not be the most optimal solution to mutas, you could still continue using them to counter mutas just for the sake of practice. A gold player that is good with ravens won't be a gold player for too long Meanwhile I need to learn how to play with phoenixes.
You only launch 1-2 seeker missiles at mutas, just to make them run away. Just takes experience to recognize if the Zerg is going to commit his mutas to the fight in which case you can launch more and split your vikings+ravens and juke the mutas while throwing out PDDs.
You never really wanna waste raven energy on seekers vs decent Zergs tho...they'll never go off
If you go Mech, use Thors and Turrets for early mutalisk defense. Regardless of what the Zerg plays, unless you are doing heavy timing attacks, you will need Vikings anyways for Vipers and Broodlords, so add those too and then add Ravens.
Try to counteract the zerg mutalisk movement with the viking/raven flock and excessive amounts of scans form an excessive amount of macro-OCs. When the Zerg engages your vikings with mutalisks or corruptors, don't use Seeker Missiles on them, PDD does the job just fine! The problem with seekers is that good zerg players will start to pull their seekered mutalisks into their Ravens and Vikings and your Seekers will kill your own units. There is hardly anything you can do about this once you started the seeker missiles because mutas and corruptors just outrun your stuff, so, despite this working well against bad opponents, good opponents will turn seekers against you and that's one of the only ways a zerg can really kill bigger Raven flocks efficiently. Again, PDD+10-15vikings can take on 30 and more mutas with no losses, so you don't need to seeker in the first place. If you get 1-2Thors into combat too with proper army movement or prepositioning a few thors across all your bases, you should be able to murder those pesky little crows without Seekers no problem in direct combat. But of course, this takes quite some work and training to get accustomed to, since it requires quite some defensive maneuvering skills to keep up with mutas bouncing back into fog of war.
On January 24 2015 17:27 ROOTiaguz wrote: Well, the mass raven style in tvz is generally is about taking the game in two stages. Stage one is securing roughly half the map and adding as much defence there as to become invincible, especially when combined with mass Raven PDD. When you zerg cannot attack you, you move into stage 2 which is slowly creeping forwards with tanks and ravens and stuff, constantly picking away at his stuff until he runs out of money. Should take an hour or until the zerg runds out of patience.
Not true, you can seeker missile your medivac and boost it into the mutas. Or drop a mule and missile it.
You may not even need the PDD because when a unit dies the bomb still goes off where it last was.
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
have you ever played sc2 before? with ravens you can defend your base with the auto turrets and pdd really well, also single hsms scare the flock away. if you are at 10+ raven you can constanstly cast 1-2 missles and force the mutas away or they take huge losses.
no, please teach me sensei.
is this your full ability to discuss? this is a strategy forum, what are you doing here with this attitude?
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
have you ever played sc2 before? with ravens you can defend your base with the auto turrets and pdd really well, also single hsms scare the flock away. if you are at 10+ raven you can constanstly cast 1-2 missles and force the mutas away or they take huge losses.
no, please teach me sensei.
is this your full ability to discuss? this is a strategy forum, what are you doing here with this attitude?
He's on Root a shit attitude is required
attitudes like yours and granite's are the reason why it is rare for progamers to post...
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
have you ever played sc2 before? with ravens you can defend your base with the auto turrets and pdd really well, also single hsms scare the flock away. if you are at 10+ raven you can constanstly cast 1-2 missles and force the mutas away or they take huge losses.
no, please teach me sensei.
is this your full ability to discuss? this is a strategy forum, what are you doing here with this attitude?
He's on Root a shit attitude is required
Can we please not verbally assault one of the few people on TL who knows what he's talking about when it comes to world class level SC2? And graNite, somewhere you have to realise that it's extremely stupid to ask a professional SC player whether he has "ever played sc2 before?" after he gives you a useful reply and then to chastise him for not being able to have a discussion when he returns your cynicism.
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
have you ever played sc2 before? with ravens you can defend your base with the auto turrets and pdd really well, also single hsms scare the flock away. if you are at 10+ raven you can constanstly cast 1-2 missles and force the mutas away or they take huge losses.
no, please teach me sensei.
is this your full ability to discuss? this is a strategy forum, what are you doing here with this attitude?
He's on Root a shit attitude is required
Can we please not verbally assault one of the few people on TL who knows what he's talking about when it comes to world class level SC2? And graNite, somewhere you have to realise that it's extremely stupid to ask a professional SC player whether he has "ever played sc2 before?" after he gives you a useful reply and then to chastise him for not being able to have a discussion when he returns your cynicism.
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
have you ever played sc2 before? with ravens you can defend your base with the auto turrets and pdd really well, also single hsms scare the flock away. if you are at 10+ raven you can constanstly cast 1-2 missles and force the mutas away or they take huge losses.
no, please teach me sensei.
is this your full ability to discuss? this is a strategy forum, what are you doing here with this attitude?
He's on Root a shit attitude is required
Can we please not verbally assault one of the few people on TL who knows what he's talking about when it comes to world class level SC2? And graNite, somewhere you have to realise that it's extremely stupid to ask a professional SC player whether he has "ever played sc2 before?" after he gives you a useful reply and then to chastise him for not being able to have a discussion when he returns your cynicism.
thats not a verbal assault its stating a fact
Oh ok, well definitely send CatZ your resume then, you're going to be big.
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
have you ever played sc2 before? with ravens you can defend your base with the auto turrets and pdd really well, also single hsms scare the flock away. if you are at 10+ raven you can constanstly cast 1-2 missles and force the mutas away or they take huge losses.
no, please teach me sensei.
is this your full ability to discuss? this is a strategy forum, what are you doing here with this attitude?
He's on Root a shit attitude is required
Can we please not verbally assault one of the few people on TL who knows what he's talking about when it comes to world class level SC2? And graNite, somewhere you have to realise that it's extremely stupid to ask a professional SC player whether he has "ever played sc2 before?" after he gives you a useful reply and then to chastise him for not being able to have a discussion when he returns your cynicism.
can you please show me where he gave me a useful reply? i am so sick of the tl elitism. where can i post about this issue?
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
have you ever played sc2 before? with ravens you can defend your base with the auto turrets and pdd really well, also single hsms scare the flock away. if you are at 10+ raven you can constanstly cast 1-2 missles and force the mutas away or they take huge losses.
no, please teach me sensei.
is this your full ability to discuss? this is a strategy forum, what are you doing here with this attitude?
He's on Root a shit attitude is required
Can we please not verbally assault one of the few people on TL who knows what he's talking about when it comes to world class level SC2? And graNite, somewhere you have to realise that it's extremely stupid to ask a professional SC player whether he has "ever played sc2 before?" after he gives you a useful reply and then to chastise him for not being able to have a discussion when he returns your cynicism.
thats not a verbal assault its stating a fact
Oh ok, well definitely send CatZ your resume then, you're going to be big.
If you're going to attempt to insult me at least try to make it make sense
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
have you ever played sc2 before? with ravens you can defend your base with the auto turrets and pdd really well, also single hsms scare the flock away. if you are at 10+ raven you can constanstly cast 1-2 missles and force the mutas away or they take huge losses.
no, please teach me sensei.
is this your full ability to discuss? this is a strategy forum, what are you doing here with this attitude?
He's on Root a shit attitude is required
Can we please not verbally assault one of the few people on TL who knows what he's talking about when it comes to world class level SC2? And graNite, somewhere you have to realise that it's extremely stupid to ask a professional SC player whether he has "ever played sc2 before?" after he gives you a useful reply and then to chastise him for not being able to have a discussion when he returns your cynicism.
thats not a verbal assault its stating a fact
Oh ok, well definitely send CatZ your resume then, you're going to be big.
If you're going to attempt to insult me at least try to make it make sense
"He's on ROOT a shit attitude is required" It makes perfect sense.
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
have you ever played sc2 before? with ravens you can defend your base with the auto turrets and pdd really well, also single hsms scare the flock away. if you are at 10+ raven you can constanstly cast 1-2 missles and force the mutas away or they take huge losses.
no, please teach me sensei.
is this your full ability to discuss? this is a strategy forum, what are you doing here with this attitude?
He's on Root a shit attitude is required
Can we please not verbally assault one of the few people on TL who knows what he's talking about when it comes to world class level SC2? And graNite, somewhere you have to realise that it's extremely stupid to ask a professional SC player whether he has "ever played sc2 before?" after he gives you a useful reply and then to chastise him for not being able to have a discussion when he returns your cynicism.
can you please show me where he gave me a useful reply? i am so sick of the tl elitism. where can i post about this issue?
He replies to the OP saying you don't defend vs muta's with ravens since you can't damage them unless the zerg makes a booboo. So you use thor viking to get to the later stages and then transition into ravens when you're filthy rich and not in immediate danger of dying to a frontal assault.
You reply to that by passively agressively implying he has never played SC2 before. How are you the victim here?
The elitism on TL is only bad if you compare it to free for all unmoderated forums where everyone considers themselves god. If you compare it to a real life situation it's really not that weird to value a dentist's opinion higher than a lawyer's when it concerns your teeth.
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
have you ever played sc2 before? with ravens you can defend your base with the auto turrets and pdd really well, also single hsms scare the flock away. if you are at 10+ raven you can constanstly cast 1-2 missles and force the mutas away or they take huge losses.
no, please teach me sensei.
is this your full ability to discuss? this is a strategy forum, what are you doing here with this attitude?
He's on Root a shit attitude is required
Can we please not verbally assault one of the few people on TL who knows what he's talking about when it comes to world class level SC2? And graNite, somewhere you have to realise that it's extremely stupid to ask a professional SC player whether he has "ever played sc2 before?" after he gives you a useful reply and then to chastise him for not being able to have a discussion when he returns your cynicism.
can you please show me where he gave me a useful reply? i am so sick of the tl elitism. where can i post about this issue?
For you to receive a useful reply, your first statement has to be useful to begin with. Which was a) unreasonably aggressive, no clue if you have a background with him but for me it sounds like completely out of the blue
have you ever played sc2 before?
b) it's not that hard to understand why he writes that you cannot kill mutas with ravens directly (assuming a good level of play). PDDs don't kill mutas, you need something that actually shoots them with it as he suggests turrets, thors, vikings. Autoturrets can kill mutas, yet you need quite big turretfields which takes space, energy, micro and additional PDDs to protect the Ravens. So outside the exotic and rare endgame of already having 50ravens and killing bases with enough autoturrets that mutas shouldn't engage it is not that far-fetched to say "you don't kill mutas with auto-turrets". Which leaves Seeker missiles. As avilo and others have pointed out, mutas can easily outrun seeker missiles. So the Ravens won't do any damage to mutalisks when on their own and you're just depleting your energy. Especially, the mutas can run into the ravens and make the Seekers go off on your own ravens, so it is risky to seeker to begin with. And at a decent level (diamond plus) with enough experience, it is actually not even unheard of to just pull out the single targeted "RED" mutalisk and into the ravens (or away from the combat), while all the other mutas keep on fighting.
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
have you ever played sc2 before? with ravens you can defend your base with the auto turrets and pdd really well, also single hsms scare the flock away. if you are at 10+ raven you can constanstly cast 1-2 missles and force the mutas away or they take huge losses.
no, please teach me sensei.
is this your full ability to discuss? this is a strategy forum, what are you doing here with this attitude?
Well you started your own argument with "Have you ever played sc2 before?"...Anyway I think Terran has it good in gold/plat level against mutas.I play toss and I constantly find it impossible to fend off mutas without phoenixes even though my games are far from the highest level
EDIT: Not impossible but reaaally hard
i think its harder with toss because you have less range and need to be more active. terran can also set up mines, but stalker or storm are just not the same thing as thors or vikings anti air
I like templar to defend versus muta switch. 1-2 archon in a mineral line with a storm in backup let you enough time to warp-in/blink enough stalkers. Of course that's only if your stargate is very far away, phoenix or mass 3/3 stalker seems the only real answers. In general I stay very low on static, compared to turrets a cannon doesn't have the range, compared to spore it doesn't have the DPS and I find they "block" the ground pathing more than anything.
If nothing works you can always rely on BMing you opponent until he GG.
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
have you ever played sc2 before? with ravens you can defend your base with the auto turrets and pdd really well, also single hsms scare the flock away. if you are at 10+ raven you can constanstly cast 1-2 missles and force the mutas away or they take huge losses.
no, please teach me sensei.
is this your full ability to discuss? this is a strategy forum, what are you doing here with this attitude?
Well you started your own argument with "Have you ever played sc2 before?"...Anyway I think Terran has it good in gold/plat level against mutas.I play toss and I constantly find it impossible to fend off mutas without phoenixes even though my games are far from the highest level
EDIT: Not impossible but reaaally hard
i think its harder with toss because you have less range and need to be more active. terran can also set up mines, but stalker or storm are just not the same thing as thors or vikings anti air
You should keep in mind who you are trying to argue with granite as Koivusto points out.
Iaguz has far more experience, and while his response was not the best way around it, you really should show a little more respect when responding and not saying "have you ever played sc2 before?".
Sure you can scare the flock away with seekers, but you can't rely on them to kill things. Iaguz is correct, against a good zerg (meaning if you wish to play optimally) you use the PDDs so the other units can kill the mutas, its much more energy efficient.
If they really commit, and its lower level, sure, use the seekers but its a poor use of energy considering the payout for it.
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
have you ever played sc2 before? with ravens you can defend your base with the auto turrets and pdd really well, also single hsms scare the flock away. if you are at 10+ raven you can constanstly cast 1-2 missles and force the mutas away or they take huge losses.
no, please teach me sensei.
is this your full ability to discuss? this is a strategy forum, what are you doing here with this attitude?
He's on Root a shit attitude is required
Can we please not verbally assault one of the few people on TL who knows what he's talking about when it comes to world class level SC2? And graNite, somewhere you have to realise that it's extremely stupid to ask a professional SC player whether he has "ever played sc2 before?" after he gives you a useful reply and then to chastise him for not being able to have a discussion when he returns your cynicism.
can you please show me where he gave me a useful reply? i am so sick of the tl elitism. where can i post about this issue?
Here:
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
On January 24 2015 17:27 ROOTiaguz wrote: Well, the mass raven style in tvz is generally is about taking the game in two stages. Stage one is securing roughly half the map and adding as much defence there as to become invincible, especially when combined with mass Raven PDD. When you zerg cannot attack you, you move into stage 2 which is slowly creeping forwards with tanks and ravens and stuff, constantly picking away at his stuff until he runs out of money. Should take an hour or until the zerg runds out of patience.
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
have you ever played sc2 before? with ravens you can defend your base with the auto turrets and pdd really well, also single hsms scare the flock away. if you are at 10+ raven you can constanstly cast 1-2 missles and force the mutas away or they take huge losses.
no, please teach me sensei.
is this your full ability to discuss? this is a strategy forum, what are you doing here with this attitude?
Well you started your own argument with "Have you ever played sc2 before?"...Anyway I think Terran has it good in gold/plat level against mutas.I play toss and I constantly find it impossible to fend off mutas without phoenixes even though my games are far from the highest level
EDIT: Not impossible but reaaally hard
i think its harder with toss because you have less range and need to be more active. terran can also set up mines, but stalker or storm are just not the same thing as thors or vikings anti air
You should keep in mind who you are trying to argue with granite as Koivusto points out.
What does his name or skill have to do with his knowledge? Is it perfect because he is a "pro"? Yesterday I saw Nerchio with 0 upgrades in a 20 min game, pros make mistakes too.
Of course the cynical question was not my point of argument but it gave you guys an opening to just attack me instead of discussing, and that is the problem. iaguz also responded to my post with a post that added nothing to the discussion while you can also find that in every one of my posts.
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
have you ever played sc2 before? with ravens you can defend your base with the auto turrets and pdd really well, also single hsms scare the flock away. if you are at 10+ raven you can constanstly cast 1-2 missles and force the mutas away or they take huge losses.
no, please teach me sensei.
is this your full ability to discuss? this is a strategy forum, what are you doing here with this attitude?
He's on Root a shit attitude is required
Can we please not verbally assault one of the few people on TL who knows what he's talking about when it comes to world class level SC2? And graNite, somewhere you have to realise that it's extremely stupid to ask a professional SC player whether he has "ever played sc2 before?" after he gives you a useful reply and then to chastise him for not being able to have a discussion when he returns your cynicism.
can you please show me where he gave me a useful reply? i am so sick of the tl elitism. where can i post about this issue?
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
On January 24 2015 17:27 ROOTiaguz wrote: Well, the mass raven style in tvz is generally is about taking the game in two stages. Stage one is securing roughly half the map and adding as much defence there as to become invincible, especially when combined with mass Raven PDD. When you zerg cannot attack you, you move into stage 2 which is slowly creeping forwards with tanks and ravens and stuff, constantly picking away at his stuff until he runs out of money. Should take an hour or until the zerg runds out of patience.
The question was: can you show me where he gave me a useful reply, one that responded to my posts. You just quoted his other posts. He is not discussing, that was my point. I was asked by Saechiis to not react that way after he gave me a useful reply, but he didnt. Moreover you didnt answer my question where to post about this issue and just give me a warning because i didnt treat him like you want me to. Why are you not discussing? Why is he not? Becuse its easier to just give warnings to everyone who disagrees? this is the strategy forum, not the "ask the pros" board.
Instead, you give me a warning for telling him that he didnt respond in a way that adds something to the discussion. If you tell me about respecting someone, why dont you respect my opinion about the raven use in tvz instead of just saying: he is a pro, he knows better. i am here to discuss, not to be told what to straight up believe only because of a nickname.
On January 25 2015 07:43 ZeromuS wrote: Sure you can scare the flock away with seekers, but you can't rely on them to kill things. Iaguz is correct, against a good zerg (meaning if you wish to play optimally) you use the PDDs so the other units can kill the mutas, its much more energy efficient.
The only relevant part of your post in terms of "adding something to the discussion". You can rely on the HSM because it either hits or the mutas fly away. There is no way something else happens so you either kill the flock, kill some mutas in case the zerg splits well or he just flies away. In that case you won time, space, ideally fight the rest of his army.
Also dont forget OP is in gold league where you have overgas in the late game as T all the time because there is no other way to spend gas in Bio vs Z than with ravens. And the opponent probably will not be able to split the mutas and you can hit an HSM or two while he is not watching the army.
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
have you ever played sc2 before? with ravens you can defend your base with the auto turrets and pdd really well, also single hsms scare the flock away. if you are at 10+ raven you can constanstly cast 1-2 missles and force the mutas away or they take huge losses.
no, please teach me sensei.
is this your full ability to discuss? this is a strategy forum, what are you doing here with this attitude?
Well you started your own argument with "Have you ever played sc2 before?"...Anyway I think Terran has it good in gold/plat level against mutas.I play toss and I constantly find it impossible to fend off mutas without phoenixes even though my games are far from the highest level
EDIT: Not impossible but reaaally hard
i think its harder with toss because you have less range and need to be more active. terran can also set up mines, but stalker or storm are just not the same thing as thors or vikings anti air
You should keep in mind who you are trying to argue with granite as Koivusto points out.
What does his name or skill have to do with his knowledge? Is it perfect because he is a "pro"? Yesterday I saw Nerchio with 0 upgrades in a 20 min game, pros make mistakes too.
Of course the cynical question was not my point of argument but it gave you guys an opening to just attack me instead of discussing, and that is the problem. iaguz also responded to my post with a post that added nothing to the discussion while you can also find that in every one of my posts.
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
have you ever played sc2 before? with ravens you can defend your base with the auto turrets and pdd really well, also single hsms scare the flock away. if you are at 10+ raven you can constanstly cast 1-2 missles and force the mutas away or they take huge losses.
no, please teach me sensei.
is this your full ability to discuss? this is a strategy forum, what are you doing here with this attitude?
He's on Root a shit attitude is required
Can we please not verbally assault one of the few people on TL who knows what he's talking about when it comes to world class level SC2? And graNite, somewhere you have to realise that it's extremely stupid to ask a professional SC player whether he has "ever played sc2 before?" after he gives you a useful reply and then to chastise him for not being able to have a discussion when he returns your cynicism.
can you please show me where he gave me a useful reply? i am so sick of the tl elitism. where can i post about this issue?
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
On January 24 2015 17:27 ROOTiaguz wrote: Well, the mass raven style in tvz is generally is about taking the game in two stages. Stage one is securing roughly half the map and adding as much defence there as to become invincible, especially when combined with mass Raven PDD. When you zerg cannot attack you, you move into stage 2 which is slowly creeping forwards with tanks and ravens and stuff, constantly picking away at his stuff until he runs out of money. Should take an hour or until the zerg runds out of patience.
The question was: can you show me where he gave me a useful reply, one that responded to my posts. You just quoted his other posts. He is not discussing, that was my point. I was asked by Saechiis to not react that way after he gave me a useful reply, but he didnt. Moreover you didnt answer my question where to post about this issue and just give me a warning because i didnt treat him like you want me to. Why are you not discussing? Why is he not? Becuse its easier to just give warnings to everyone who disagrees? this is the strategy forum, not the "ask the pros" board.
Instead, you give me a warning for telling him that he didnt respond in a way that adds something to the discussion. If you tell me about respecting someone, why dont you respect my opinion about the raven use in tvz instead of just saying: he is a pro, he knows better. i am here to discuss, not to be told what to straight up believe only because of a nickname.
On January 25 2015 07:43 ZeromuS wrote: Sure you can scare the flock away with seekers, but you can't rely on them to kill things. Iaguz is correct, against a good zerg (meaning if you wish to play optimally) you use the PDDs so the other units can kill the mutas, its much more energy efficient.
The only relevant part of your post in terms of "adding something to the discussion". You can rely on the HSM because it either hits or the mutas fly away. There is no way something else happens so you either kill the flock, kill some mutas in case the zerg splits well or he just flies away. In that case you won time, space, ideally fight the rest of his army.
Also dont forget OP is in gold league where you have overgas in the late game as T all the time because there is no other way to spend gas in Bio vs Z than with ravens. And the opponent probably will not be able to split the mutas and you can hit an HSM or two while he is not watching the army.
Oh,
Its not even your OP for this thread.
This makes your reaction all the worse. You came out of nowhere to insult Iaguz by asking if he even plays SC2.
Going to reiterate - a WCS PREMIERE 2015 PLAYER
You want to call me out? Sure fine.
He didn't answer your question because it was addressed to begin with, he says you don't kill them with HSM against a good player. He was giving the OP advice which would follow him past gold league, not something that works for now but not later.
And you begin by speaking down to him in your first post in this thread. If anyone chose not to enter into a discussion it was you.
I warned you for showing a lack of respect.
I'm going to say one thing in public right here:
If anyone who reads this wants to see pros post here in the strat forum, show them respect. You don't need to believe every single word they say - they can be wrong sure. you can ask them questions to find out how they formed their opinion, you can ask "i do X for Y reason, you say not to do that, why is it bad? Can you explain?". That is a discussion.
What you have to do is show some basic respect to them. The reason Pros dont like posting here is because they don't like being told they are wrong and spoken down to by people who have not put as much time into the game as they have and have not put much thought into their post talking down to them.
Want to discuss specifically how he "doesn't add to the discussion?" - he was having a discussion. He and snolla went back and forth with their posts. Snolla liked the answers. Iaguz was giving the OP Snolla some understanding as to why he plays the game slow, and pdds. I am sorry if you couldn't extrapolate the underlying reasoning.
HSM might scare them away sure. But the question is about killing the mutas. Yeah bad control will lose the mutas. But maybe it only works in gold? You know what works for sure though? Slow killing the zerg. Pdds which cost less energy means you can push forward, and get vikings etc and then win in the end its not a flashy HSM win but its a win. The ravens more energy efficiently push forward. Yeah an hsm can act in a pinch sure, but that doesnt mean you rely on them. None of that invalidates Iaguz's original point.
So no he did not directly answer your post. Want to know why? Because you acted like an idiot towards him.
Moreover you didnt answer my question where to post about this issue and just give me a warning because i didnt treat him like you want me to. Why are you not discussing? Why is he not? Becuse its easier to just give warnings to everyone who disagrees? this is the strategy forum, not the "ask the pros" board.
I'm not discussing because I don't have to. I was trying to get you to show some respect. Your idea of discussing seems to involve a lot of name calling and talking down to others.
I did not warn a single person for disagreeing with Iaguz. I warned YOU for acting like an idiot and insulting him.
Hey go back to page 1 see where Avilo posts about using HSM to scare the mutas away? I didn't warn him even though he has a different opinion from Iaguz in this thread. You want to know why I didnt warn him? He didnt talk down to someone who plays this game every day at a professional level and is a top player out of Australia.
No its not the ask the pros board. We don't have one. Want to know why its not ask the pros? because the pros dislike people like you coming in here and talking down to them when they attempt to be good people and show up.
Hey here's another thing for you. You see how Iaguz has a blue background? He's been posting on the strat forum for years, before making WCS, before being on ROOT, before being a "big" name because he genuinely tries to help people.
So no, I'm not disucssing. I am telling you, show respect in your posts. If you want to call me out on the forums thats fine, I'm gonna smack you right back down into place when you decide to shitpost like this.
Hey granite stop trying to chase away pros from the strategy section. I imagine newer players probably want their advice the most.
I know there's not supposed to be backseat modding here but I read your posts and im like 'wow, i am surprised he is getting away with this'. Not because you are arguing with a pro, more just the way you are doing it.
On January 25 2015 12:04 graNite wrote: The only relevant part of your post in terms of "adding something to the discussion". You can rely on the HSM because it either hits or the mutas fly away. There is no way something else happens so you either kill the flock, kill some mutas in case the zerg splits well or he just flies away. In that case you won time, space, ideally fight the rest of his army.
Also dont forget OP is in gold league where you have overgas in the late game as T all the time because there is no other way to spend gas in Bio vs Z than with ravens. And the opponent probably will not be able to split the mutas and you can hit an HSM or two while he is not watching the army.
In low league any AoE is OP. But I'd build Thor instead since it's way more reliable a zoning out mutas or hid 4 WM behind a building to get a game winning connection. A decent opponent would be able to hit n' run with the mutas enough to deplete raven's energy with dud seekers. A good would be able to pick the targeted muta only and separate it from the flock. The perfect would just run it straight into the ravens. If Terran has enough resources to get 50 ravens, it's nearly GG for the Zerg anyway regardless of his composition.
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
have you ever played sc2 before? with ravens you can defend your base with the auto turrets and pdd really well, also single hsms scare the flock away. if you are at 10+ raven you can constanstly cast 1-2 missles and force the mutas away or they take huge losses.
no, please teach me sensei.
is this your full ability to discuss? this is a strategy forum, what are you doing here with this attitude?
Well you started your own argument with "Have you ever played sc2 before?"...Anyway I think Terran has it good in gold/plat level against mutas.I play toss and I constantly find it impossible to fend off mutas without phoenixes even though my games are far from the highest level
EDIT: Not impossible but reaaally hard
i think its harder with toss because you have less range and need to be more active. terran can also set up mines, but stalker or storm are just not the same thing as thors or vikings anti air
You should keep in mind who you are trying to argue with granite as Koivusto points out.
What does his name or skill have to do with his knowledge? Is it perfect because he is a "pro"? Yesterday I saw Nerchio with 0 upgrades in a 20 min game, pros make mistakes too.
Of course the cynical question was not my point of argument but it gave you guys an opening to just attack me instead of discussing, and that is the problem. iaguz also responded to my post with a post that added nothing to the discussion while you can also find that in every one of my posts.
On January 25 2015 07:43 ZeromuS wrote:
On January 25 2015 03:23 graNite wrote:
On January 25 2015 03:12 Saechiis wrote:
On January 25 2015 02:42 LongShot27 wrote:
On January 24 2015 19:54 graNite wrote:
On January 24 2015 19:32 ROOTiaguz wrote:
On January 24 2015 18:10 graNite wrote:
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
have you ever played sc2 before? with ravens you can defend your base with the auto turrets and pdd really well, also single hsms scare the flock away. if you are at 10+ raven you can constanstly cast 1-2 missles and force the mutas away or they take huge losses.
no, please teach me sensei.
is this your full ability to discuss? this is a strategy forum, what are you doing here with this attitude?
He's on Root a shit attitude is required
Can we please not verbally assault one of the few people on TL who knows what he's talking about when it comes to world class level SC2? And graNite, somewhere you have to realise that it's extremely stupid to ask a professional SC player whether he has "ever played sc2 before?" after he gives you a useful reply and then to chastise him for not being able to have a discussion when he returns your cynicism.
can you please show me where he gave me a useful reply? i am so sick of the tl elitism. where can i post about this issue?
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
On January 24 2015 17:27 ROOTiaguz wrote: Well, the mass raven style in tvz is generally is about taking the game in two stages. Stage one is securing roughly half the map and adding as much defence there as to become invincible, especially when combined with mass Raven PDD. When you zerg cannot attack you, you move into stage 2 which is slowly creeping forwards with tanks and ravens and stuff, constantly picking away at his stuff until he runs out of money. Should take an hour or until the zerg runds out of patience.
The question was: can you show me where he gave me a useful reply, one that responded to my posts. You just quoted his other posts. He is not discussing, that was my point. I was asked by Saechiis to not react that way after he gave me a useful reply, but he didnt. Moreover you didnt answer my question where to post about this issue and just give me a warning because i didnt treat him like you want me to. Why are you not discussing? Why is he not? Becuse its easier to just give warnings to everyone who disagrees? this is the strategy forum, not the "ask the pros" board.
Instead, you give me a warning for telling him that he didnt respond in a way that adds something to the discussion. If you tell me about respecting someone, why dont you respect my opinion about the raven use in tvz instead of just saying: he is a pro, he knows better. i am here to discuss, not to be told what to straight up believe only because of a nickname.
On January 25 2015 07:43 ZeromuS wrote: Sure you can scare the flock away with seekers, but you can't rely on them to kill things. Iaguz is correct, against a good zerg (meaning if you wish to play optimally) you use the PDDs so the other units can kill the mutas, its much more energy efficient.
The only relevant part of your post in terms of "adding something to the discussion". You can rely on the HSM because it either hits or the mutas fly away. There is no way something else happens so you either kill the flock, kill some mutas in case the zerg splits well or he just flies away. In that case you won time, space, ideally fight the rest of his army.
Also dont forget OP is in gold league where you have overgas in the late game as T all the time because there is no other way to spend gas in Bio vs Z than with ravens. And the opponent probably will not be able to split the mutas and you can hit an HSM or two while he is not watching the army.
Oh,
Its not even your OP for this thread.
This makes your reaction all the worse. You came out of nowhere to insult Iaguz by asking if he even plays SC2.
Going to reiterate - a WCS PREMIERE 2015 PLAYER
You wan't to call me out? Sure fine.
He didn't answer your question because it was addressed to begin with, he says you don't kill them with HSM against a good player. He was giving the OP advice which would follow him past gold league, not something that works for now but not later.
And you begin by speaking down to him in your first post in this thread. If anyone chose not to enter into a discussion it was you.
I warned you for showing a lack of respect.
I'm going to say one thing in public right here:
If anyone who reads this wants to see pros post here in the strat forum, show them respect. You don't need to believe every single word they say - they can be wrong sure. you can ask them questions to find out how they formed their opinion, you can ask "i do X for Y reason, you say not to do that, why is it bad? Can you explain?". That is a discussion.
What you have to do is show some basic respect to them. The reason Pros dont like posting here is because they don't like being told they are wrong and spoken down to by people who have not put as much time into the game as they have and have not put much thought into their post talking down to them.
Want to discuss specifically how he "doesn't add to the discussion?" - he was having a discussion. He and snolla went back and forth with their posts. Snolla liked the answers. Iaguz was giving the OP Snolla some understanding as to why he plays the game slow, and pdds. I am sorry if you couldn't extrapolate the underlying reasoning.
HSM might scare them away sure. But the question is about killing the mutas. Yeah bad control will lose the mutas. But maybe it only works in gold? You know what works for sure though? Slow killing the zerg. Pdds which cost less energy means you can push forward, and get vikings etc and then win in the end its not a flashy HSM win but its a win. The ravens more energy efficiently push forward. Yeah an hsm can act in a pinch sure, but that doesnt mean you rely on them. None of that invalidates Iaguz's original point.
So no he did not directly answer your post. Want to know why? Because you acted like an idiot towards him.
Moreover you didnt answer my question where to post about this issue and just give me a warning because i didnt treat him like you want me to. Why are you not discussing? Why is he not? Becuse its easier to just give warnings to everyone who disagrees? this is the strategy forum, not the "ask the pros" board.
I'm not discussing because I don't have to. I was trying to get you to show some respect. Your idea of discussing seems to involve a lot of name calling and talking down to others.
I did not warn a single person for disagreeing with Iaguz. I warned YOU for acting like an idiot and insulting him.
Hey go back to page 1 see where Avilo posts about using HSM to scare the mutas away? I didn't warn him even though he has a different opinion from Iaguz in this thread. You want to know why I didnt warn him? He didnt talk down to someone who plays this game every day at a professional level and is a top played out of Australia.
No its not the ask the pros board. We don't have one. Want to know why its not ask the pros? because the pros dislike people like you coming in here and talking down to them when they attempt to be good people and show up.
Hey here's another thing for you. You see how Iaguz has a blue background? He's been posting on the strat forum for years, before making WCS, before being on ROOT, before being a "big" name because he genuinely tries to help people.
So no, I'm not disucssing. I am telling you, show respect in your posts. If you want to call me out on the forums thats fine, I'm gonna smack you right back down into place when you decide to shitpost like this.
On January 25 2015 13:02 ROOTiaguz wrote: My apologies OP. I didn't mean it to come to this.
As for graNite, if you're going to speak to me with that rude a tone, I refuse to engage with you on any respectable level. Don't be a cunt.
Ok. Then dont answer the post in the same, rude way. Dont call me cunt. Why do you even try to talk with cuss words now? Why start this?
On January 25 2015 12:57 travis wrote: Hey granite stop trying to chase away pros from the strategy section. I imagine newer players probably want their advice the most.
I know there's not supposed to be backseat modding here but I read your posts and im like 'wow, i am surprised he is getting away with this'. Not because you are arguing with a pro, more just the way you are doing it.
I am not chasing anyone away, I am just trying to discuss my opinions about ravens in tvz and discussions with pros in general. I dont see that from you. See TL rule 4 and 6
On January 25 2015 12:52 ZeromuS wrote: I'm not discussing because I don't have to. I was trying to get you to show some respect. Your idea of discussing seems to involve a lot of name calling and talking down to others.
I did not warn a single person for disagreeing with Iaguz. I warned YOU for acting like an idiot and insulting him.
You seem to be breaking nearly every single rule on that page in this thread.
If you post here, you are discussing. If you dont want to, dont do it. Dont make me show respect to anyone, it will fail. I can choose on my own who to respect and in what way.
You warned me for this post in which i asked him to discuss the raven muta problem and not post stuff like this with 0 content. thank you for your post, i read the rules again and noticed my only mistake was to ask the obviously cynical question whether he ever played before or not, only because I disagreed. It is not nice to post stuff like this, but we all know this is not the worst thing that has ever happened on the internet.
If you disagree with my opinion about the raven muta issue, feel free to state yours and tell us why. Dont just say: he is a pro, he knows it better.
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
have you ever played sc2 before? with ravens you can defend your base with the auto turrets and pdd really well, also single hsms scare the flock away. if you are at 10+ raven you can constanstly cast 1-2 missles and force the mutas away or they take huge losses.
I understand you object to iaguz's advice, and you have every right, but is your condescending question really necessary?
I don't understand why you felt it was necessary to ask such an inane question. Its perfectly reasonable to disagree with someone, but that wasn't what you were doing. You were insulting iaguz because you didn't agree with him.
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
have you ever played sc2 before? with ravens you can defend your base with the auto turrets and pdd really well, also single hsms scare the flock away. if you are at 10+ raven you can constanstly cast 1-2 missles and force the mutas away or they take huge losses.
I understand you object to iaguz's advice, and you have every right, but is your condescending question really necessary?
I don't understand why you felt it was necessary to ask such an inane question. Its perfectly reasonable to disagree with someone, but that wasn't what you were doing. You were insulting iaguz because you didn't agree with him.
I tried ravens in TVZ with mixed results, now I dont use them because I dont like them Cool that you can make ravens work, how do you do it? I dont think this can work, what is the thought behind this i have never tried that, but will do.
On January 24 2015 16:47 ROOTiaguz wrote: You don't kill Mutalisks with ravens unless the Zerg is really dumb. You kill mutalisks with viking thor turret all behind a shield of mass PDD's so they take no damage. That's what ravens do in mech; they make all ur shit invincible with PDD plus they seeker missile out swarm hosts
have you ever played sc2 before? with ravens you can defend your base with the auto turrets and pdd really well, also single hsms scare the flock away. if you are at 10+ raven you can constanstly cast 1-2 missles and force the mutas away or they take huge losses.
I understand you object to iaguz's advice, and you have every right, but is your condescending question really necessary?
I don't understand why you felt it was necessary to ask such an inane question. Its perfectly reasonable to disagree with someone, but that wasn't what you were doing. You were insulting iaguz because you didn't agree with him.
I tried ravens in TVZ with mixed results, now I dont use them because I dont like them Cool that you can make ravens work, how do you do it? I dont think this can work, what is the thought behind this i have never tried that, but will do.
something like this, i think you get the idea.
well then lemme give you a quick piece of advice when you're unbanned. If you want a respectful reply, give one yourself. Don't go up to a pro (or anyone really) with this sort of attitude or you'll get nowhere.
I first wanted to participate in the discussion but decided against it when I saw how it turned out, these posts not only can keep pros for replying in TL strategy section, but also basic people like me who just like open minded and respectful discussions.
I really don't know why some people are so quick at starting fights when nothing really calls for it, but often when you see the posting history of such people you can see they kinda have an agressivity issue that they need to adress somehow cause they're hurting themsleves more than anybody else in the long run.
So :
- thx Iaguz for answering a gold level question, I'm sure 99% of the people who read the thread are grateful for this - thx TL mods for dealing with the 1% left - and good luck to OP for dealing with mass muta, I m sure you already know which answers made sense and which did not.
Sorry Iagus, on behalf of , I think, most TL strategy forum lurkers like myself. I always appreciate very much when pros post here, but I usually don't want to post only to thank them, as I don't feel it adds very much to the discussion. And I certainly understand that response like granites discourages pros to post. But for every granite, there are a lot of lurkers that appreciate your post, so please don't be scared away! Ignoring him will likely be the best method if I may offer some advice.
So please, Iagus and other pros reading, keep giving advice for the (mostly) silent minority, ignoring the annoying vocal minority that you always seem to get on teh intarwebz.
Well shit, things escalated quickly here. Have you ever tried aiming a HSM into your own medivac boosting it afterwards towards a mutaflock? In our level opponents won't probably except that and BOOM - delicious mutabarbeque. Maybe Iaguz can give some insight if that trick ever works at higher levels.
On January 26 2015 03:14 Koivusto wrote: Well shit, things escalated quickly here. Have you ever tried aiming a HSM into your own medivac boosting it afterwards towards a mutaflock? In our level opponents won't probably except that and BOOM - delicious mutabarbeque. Maybe Iaguz can give some insight if that trick ever works at higher levels.
it does, but you can't just do it you need to force multitasking like every other heart seeker in a battle, if you drop or push a base while doing it it can distract them, but it's something you do if there is no other option, or you're really sure its going to work because its going to cost you at least 1 medivac and 2 missles, if it doesnt work, you're really fucked. High risk high reward.
On January 26 2015 03:14 Koivusto wrote: Well shit, things escalated quickly here. Have you ever tried aiming a HSM into your own medivac boosting it afterwards towards a mutaflock? In our level opponents won't probably except that and BOOM - delicious mutabarbeque. Maybe Iaguz can give some insight if that trick ever works at higher levels.
it does, but you can't just do it you need to force multitasking like every other heart seeker in a battle, if you drop or push a base while doing it it can distract them, but it's something you do if there is no other option, or you're really sure its going to work because its going to cost you at least 1 medivac and 2 missles, if it doesnt work, you're really fucked. High risk high reward.
my fav avilo replay.
here is said strategy beating a korean pro. for your viewing pleasure.
On January 26 2015 03:14 Koivusto wrote: Well shit, things escalated quickly here. Have you ever tried aiming a HSM into your own medivac boosting it afterwards towards a mutaflock? In our level opponents won't probably except that and BOOM - delicious mutabarbeque. Maybe Iaguz can give some insight if that trick ever works at higher levels.
it does, but you can't just do it you need to force multitasking like every other heart seeker in a battle, if you drop or push a base while doing it it can distract them, but it's something you do if there is no other option, or you're really sure its going to work because its going to cost you at least 1 medivac and 2 missles, if it doesnt work, you're really fucked. High risk high reward.
my fav avilo replay.
here is said strategy beating a korean pro. for your viewing pleasure.
On January 25 2015 19:16 Gwavajuice wrote: I first wanted to participate in the discussion but decided against it when I saw how it turned out, these posts not only can keep pros for replying in TL strategy section, but also basic people like me who just like open minded and respectful discussions.
I really don't know why some people are so quick at starting fights when nothing really calls for it, but often when you see the posting history of such people you can see they kinda have an agressivity issue that they need to adress somehow cause they're hurting themsleves more than anybody else in the long run.
So :
- thx Iaguz for answering a gold level question, I'm sure 99% of the people who read the thread are grateful for this - thx TL mods for dealing with the 1% left - and good luck to OP for dealing with mass muta, I m sure you already know which answers made sense and which did not.
Ya man, this thread has helped me a lot. Now I just need to balance out the unit counts of each a bit better and I should be good to go
well i agree with iaguz advice. as a zerg player if i see players go fast ravens i take the map and keep up the pressure and make sure u never take a 3rd. also learn the timings and scout 3rd timings and ect so you know when he goes mutas and if he is. On a side note sorry iaguz, there are always people that have little respect for others professions. good luck snolla with your tvz mech.
On January 26 2015 03:14 Koivusto wrote: Well shit, things escalated quickly here. Have you ever tried aiming a HSM into your own medivac boosting it afterwards towards a mutaflock? In our level opponents won't probably except that and BOOM - delicious mutabarbeque. Maybe Iaguz can give some insight if that trick ever works at higher levels.
it does, but you can't just do it you need to force multitasking like every other heart seeker in a battle, if you drop or push a base while doing it it can distract them, but it's something you do if there is no other option, or you're really sure its going to work because its going to cost you at least 1 medivac and 2 missles, if it doesnt work, you're really fucked. High risk high reward.
my fav avilo replay.
here is said strategy beating a korean pro. for your viewing pleasure.
On January 26 2015 16:31 A_Scarecrow wrote: well i agree with iaguz advice. as a zerg player if i see players go fast ravens i take the map and keep up the pressure and make sure u never take a 3rd. also learn the timings and scout 3rd timings and ect so you know when he goes mutas and if he is. On a side note sorry iaguz, there are always people that have little respect for others professions. good luck snolla with your tvz mech.
I'm the only one who thinks sekeering mutas is actually a BAD idea?
If I was zerg player and a mech player casted HSM on my mutas I would just suicide them into the ravens, it would cost more to the mech player to remake the ravens after all.
On January 27 2015 03:55 Lexender wrote: I'm the only one who thinks sekeering mutas is actually a BAD idea?
If I was zerg player and a mech player casted HSM on my mutas I would just suicide them into the ravens, it would cost more to the mech player to remake the ravens after all.
Thats what I think anyway.
This is typically what I do anytime HSM gets cast on one of my Mutas or Corruptors..
I'm sure there's a reason not to do it.. (guaranteed loss of your unit without the guaranteed loss of theirs?) but I still try every time =/
I was recently watching a tourney and saw Goody killed 3 zergs in a row with mech, mostly in games that were 45 min where Goody painfully outlasted the zerg by getting into position on the gases of the 5th z base. The z usually at certain point in the game would try mutas. And I think the answer is thors and lots of turrets. There was a certain point in the game where he started to make ravens but it was after he had lots of turrets, probably around 16 mins....
The games Goody got owned in were actually the ones where the Z used a ton of mutas as a main part of his attacking army, not as a raiding force, and it was the overproduction of tanks that lost him the games.
EPT
He went Roach/Hydra but I was lacking AA and ripping his ground army to pieces, so he did the quick switch and the only thing that hurt them for me was my two Ravens. I will add Vikings earlier against Zerg for this build. It is pretty safe to assume that a Gold level Zerg will at some point have a Mutaball.
