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[G] Zerg Overlord placement ZvZ

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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DIRESTRAIT
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada155 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-26 04:18:56
August 24 2014 20:52 GMT
#1
Table of Contents
Introduction
+ Show Spoiler +
Hey everyone! The following is a short guide on overlord placement in different matchups to give you newbies an idea of how to place them and possibly some food for thought for all of you high ranked ballers.

First of all I will introduce myself, I am DIRESTRAIT an ex-GM Zerg during both WoL and HoTS that is currently coming back to the game. I'm trying to give back to the community as much as I can with coaching on stream or short guides.

Gameplay concepts
+ Show Spoiler +

Pylons, supply depots, overlords. They all grant supply, Overlords happen to be able to fly, that's really good, like REALLY good.A big difference between the best zergs and the average ones is that every tip top zerg player will talk about where he's putting overlords and why, whereas the less experienced players won't see the importance in it. I hope to shed some light on how best to use overlords and why you should use them to their maximum potential.

High ground is a very important part of Starcraft 2. Any units on the low ground, regardless of range, have no vision of units on a higher elevation. This is important to know when dealing with flyers because if they are placed above a cliff they can't be targeted by your marines/stalkers/hydralisks unless you have some sort of vision on their level (air units, units on the same level etc). Keep in mind that air units vs air units are unnafected by this.

With this example:
[image loading]
Any unit walking on the low ground is unable to see/shoot at those overlords because they are on a higher level. They would require a medivac, void ray, or overlord to grant vision.

This means that cliffs are your best friend when you're considering places for your overlord. You will notice that blizzard maps have TONS of cliffs, everywhere, they were designed that way for a reason.

What we're looking for
+ Show Spoiler +

There are a few reasons why we spread overlords, we're looking for the following:
-Drops
-Tech
-Expansions [and mineral lines]
-Unit movement
-Unit compositions

This list may seem daunting but a lot of this happens as a consequence of good overlord placement. You want overlords in spots that will allow you to see when he's moving on the map, where he's going, what units he's moving with. You also want to see when he's expanding, where.

I'm not going to go in depth in to a scouting guide because that is a totally different topic. What I want you to understand is that overlords are a very important source of vision and scouting for any very good zerg player.

ZvZ Placement
+ Show Spoiler +

ZvZ is a very particular matchup for overlord placement, the reason is zerg is very low on anti air before lair tech, and so overlords can fly around without fear until mutalisks or hydralisks show up. The first 3 overlords are the most crucial in this matchup. They have the following roles:

Overlord 1 : Find the natural expansion, float behind the mineral line to keep an eye on the drone count.
Overlord 2: Right outside of the natural expansion, keeps an eye on the units coming and going, lets you know the moment when the attack leaves his base.
Overlord 3: Mid-map, preferably grants you vision of a tough to engage spot like a ramp or somewhere next to tall grass. It serves to give you a second reference for what his army is doing and prevent you running up a ramp into 3 banelings.

Keeping the cliff placement in mind, here is an example of how to execute this:

Behind the minerals + Show Spoiler +
: [image loading]
The image above shows an overlord on top of a cliff that can both scout the presence of a hatchery and also count the drones as they come to the mineral line. Drones count is one of the most crucial things in zvz as it allows you to read exactly what type of build he is doing. If he keeps making drones he's macroing if he cuts drones he's hitting you hard.


In front of the natural : + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
The overlord here is placed so that anything that comes out of the zerg natural is seen. He can't expand, scout, attack, or take a dump without us seeing what's going on. This is crucial to the early and mid game and you'll be using this guy a ton throughout the game.


Mid Map :
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
This overlord is to be placed somewhere where you can monitor the army movement, this map in particular is not the best for cliff placement mid map so I place mine in such a way that I can see above the ramp on the side I'm attacking on. This means I won't get caught by banelings or their like. This guy helps us gauge army size, composition, and position. This is a pretty popular spot to morph in banelings as well.


IMPORTANT NOTE
+ Show Spoiler +

Not all maps are the same, not all maps have a cliff behind the minerals, or an easy spot to float outside of the base. However you will always have a safe spot to float an overlord behind the minerals and you will always have a relatively safe spot to park an overlord outside of the natural. Keep in mind, losing overlords is bad, it's much better to keep him a bit further out and safe then it is to lose him to a queen snipe.
You may place more overlords mid map, it's mostly your preference, but I keep it to about 4 overlords on map because if he goes mutalisks I have to assume that I'm losing all of those overlords.


ZvP Placement
+ Show Spoiler +

ZvP is a MU where overlords are a bit more risky to place out on the map. If protoss opens phoenix they are as good as dead and you don't really need to spread them out on the map as much to defend against drops. This means that we are going to mainly be using our first 4 overlords.

Ideally in this matchup you're drone scouting relatively early, you should know if he's going gateway expand or FFE / Nexus first to get an idea of what timings he's going to be hitting, you also get a lot of insight on where you want to be placing your overlords. Keep in mind these building placements only affect the first overlord.

First overlord:
+ Show Spoiler +

Gateway expand:
[image loading]
This setup is what we're going to refer to as the Gateway expand, when you scout you'll see the pylon plus the gateway warping in. The crucial information we're going to be getting here is whether or not he's going to be expanding or not. So you're going to place your overlord in view of the natural near or on top of a cliff, like so:
[image loading]

Forge fast expand / Nexus First:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
This build involves him walling off his natural ramp with his forge and gateway , possibly cyber core. You want your overlord on the cliff adjacent to his natural like so:
[image loading]
We are sitting there because it allows us to spy on his forge upgrades, and his warpgate upgrades, keep in mind that the chronoboost animation is very indicative of his intentions.
What's very important to note with FFE is that we can be very flexible early on with our overlord placement because he has no Anti Air outside of his cannon, [image loading] you can just float above his main nexus and check the gas timing and then fly out as he takes his geisers without a problem, I strongly recommend you do this, check any GSL game of ZvP with a Forge Fast expand and you'll see how they execute it.


Second Overlord:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
The second overlord should be placed just outside of his main base, this guy's job is to wait at the outskirts of the base and fly in when he's likely to be placing important tech buildings (i.e 5:30 6:00). We won't be going in depth as to the meaning of what we're seeing as this is an overlord placement thread, just keep in mind you're going to be using this guy to look for
tech buildings i.e Stargate, Robo Bay, Twilight Council, and to spy the number of gas geisers he has taken.


Third Overlord:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
The third overlord's job is to wait at the third base, he's going to be sitting right on top of it like a boss and his job is to spread creep as soon as you get a lair up, this serves a dual purpose, both to determin the timing of his third base and also delay it as much as possible. Don't underestimate how annoying it is to deal with a hold position overlord that's dropping creep when all you have is a few sentries and zealots with an immortal. Note that on bases with two bases that could serve as a third you can comfortably spare a second overlord to sit on top of it, you want both of those spots scouted and creeped on.


Fourth Overlord:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
You want this guy somewhere mid map to check on his army movements. Your goal is to see where his army is headed, what it's made of, how many probes he brought, etc.


Other Overlords:
+ Show Spoiler +

These guys are best kept close to your base, you don't want to have these guys out on the map when the fire nation attacks phoenixes attack. A good idea is to have them near the perimeter of your base so you get a bit of early notice in case of warp prism or oracle. It does feel like a waste but you'll be kicking yourself if you lose all of those overlords to his Stargate open.



ZvT Placement
+ Show Spoiler +

ZvT Overlord placement is one of the most crucial parts of your midgame, which can seem strange to newer players. The idea is, you want your first overlords to let you know what he's up to , and all of your other overlords to be spread out around the minimap catching drops. Nothing is more satisfying than swatting drops out of the sky with a ball of mutalisks while you sit back and macro to your hearts content. This is what your minimap should look like in the midgame [image loading] Don't fear getting sniped as you should have a force of speedlings ready to defend overlords/ counter attack.

Now for the good stuff, Overlord 1:
+ Show Spoiler +

This overlord is to check the natural, the cool part of playing a terran is you just need to look at his army to see what's up. You'll be parking this ovie on the cliff next to his natural to make sure that A) He's expanding, and B) To see what his army looks like. There's a big difference between seeing 2 hellions pop out and seeing a few marines chilling next to a bunker.
[image loading]


Overlord 2:
+ Show Spoiler +

This guy should be next to the main, ready to sacrify his life for the swarm! He's going to be there to check if he's going mech or bio, and also if you need to be affraid of banshees in your base, killing your drones.
[image loading]


Overlord 3:
+ Show Spoiler +

Your third overlord should be on his third, you want to check it's timing and deny himthat base as long as you can, spread creep with this guy as soon as you get lair [image loading]


Overlord 4:
+ Show Spoiler +

You want this guy mid-map. He's your recon, your CIA operative,he's going to let you know where he's moving, when, how many people are there, and whether or not they brought their combat shields. VERY IMPORTANT to keep this guy next to a cliff so he doesn't just get wrecked [image loading]


Other Overlords:
+ Show Spoiler +

Remember what we talked about [image loading] you want these guys everywhere, and you are going to protect them with your midgame mutas/speedlings. Keep in mind that if you're going roach/hydra and he gets vikings you may have a hard time keeping these guys alive. They can still be a good idea though, it depends on your opponent. What's important is that if you're getting any sort of mobile army, especially armies with mutas, these ovies will save your life against drops. [image loading]



Thank you for reading and please let me know what you think in the comments, if you have any questions or corrections to make either PM me or comment. This is my first guide so I really appreciate the feedback! For anything else you can find me in game as DIRESTRAIT.632 or ask in the stream chat at http://www.twitch.tv/direstr8t
I'm an Animal
KonanTenshi
Profile Joined June 2012
Sweden210 Posts
August 24 2014 21:02 GMT
#2
As a terran I'd love the ZvT placements so I can snipe them with the vikings/marines.

Could you also post the pathways for overlords? perferbly the first 3
Curious
kuan888
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada305 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-24 22:25:59
August 24 2014 22:25 GMT
#3


Would be cool to have each current ladder map overlords positioning, would be simpler for me. Or maybe the guide is for really new players?
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger. -Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche ||| Acer.Scarlett <3
DIRESTRAIT
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada155 Posts
August 24 2014 23:18 GMT
#4
yeah no problem I'll work in positions on current maps and the paths they take!
I'm an Animal
kuan888
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada305 Posts
August 24 2014 23:31 GMT
#5
On August 25 2014 08:18 DIRESTRAIT wrote:
yeah no problem I'll work in positions on current maps and the paths they take!


Yeah great, this is a thing i need to help to improve.
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger. -Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche ||| Acer.Scarlett <3
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
August 25 2014 00:31 GMT
#6
Looks pretty good for now. We have a really old (but still quite relevant) guide about overlords that Belial did awhile back in WoL days: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/354352-belials-comprehensive-guide-to-overlords

However, I'm all up for an updated one that addresses the more current meta and the things that players look for in HotS meta. That said, make sure you go ahead and do all of your article at once BEFORE POSTING in the future. It will be better appreciated and much closer to a guide than what you have currently.
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
DIRESTRAIT
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada155 Posts
August 25 2014 02:48 GMT
#7
Okay I filled everything out and it is now officially a guide for every matchup, the title is a bit misleading atm but it could be worse. I hope you enjoy!
I'm an Animal
RaiZ
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
2813 Posts
August 25 2014 06:54 GMT
#8
Didn't think about using additionnals overlords in ZvP, but it actually makes sense. I don't really like the 3rd overlord placement on this particular map, but I guess it could work on the other ones (King sejong station, overgrowth and foxtrot comes to mind) where it's more unlikely to be scouted by phoenix and the likes (but still very frail to a wandering stalker).

I was thinking more of using the 4th and possibly the 5th overlord for proxy pylons. But it could easily get sniped by a push with a msc.

I guess it has its pros but also its con eh ?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. Oscar Wilde
silly
Profile Joined November 2009
Sweden18 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-25 08:12:26
August 25 2014 07:13 GMT
#9
On August 25 2014 09:31 SC2John wrote:
Looks pretty good for now. We have a really old (but still quite relevant) guide about overlords that Belial did awhile back in WoL days: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/354352-belials-comprehensive-guide-to-overlords

However, I'm all up for an updated one that addresses the more current meta and the things that players look for in HotS meta. That said, make sure you go ahead and do all of your article at once BEFORE POSTING in the future. It will be better appreciated and much closer to a guide than what you have currently.


Belial's guide covers parts imo your guide miss, e.g. in zvz the first 6 OL are important:
1-4: natural, entrance (like you mention) but also to later poke into the main(check gas and lair timing) and a 4th for checking opponents 3rd timing.
5-6: place outside own entrance to check for banes morphing and the 6th to check own 3rd for lings blocking (its a blessing knowing if there is actually a zergling or not)

These rules have at least helped me TONS in zvz.
Dingodile
Profile Joined December 2011
4133 Posts
August 25 2014 09:41 GMT
#10
I only let 2-3 overlords outside my base/place vs P&T. I have experienced that I lost many games due to sniping such "scouting overlords" and consequential supply blocked. I prefer "scout lings".
Grubby | ToD | Moon | Lyn | Sky
Justinian
Profile Joined August 2012
United Kingdom158 Posts
August 25 2014 10:55 GMT
#11
I'm going to try switching to Zerg and overlord placement is something I want to focus on so this is really helpful, thanks!
Dingodile
Profile Joined December 2011
4133 Posts
August 25 2014 11:41 GMT
#12
I also dont like if you focus too much on overlord placement around opponents base while you completely ignore overlord placement around your base. Happens 95% in pro-games.
Grubby | ToD | Moon | Lyn | Sky
DIRESTRAIT
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada155 Posts
August 25 2014 16:07 GMT
#13
On August 25 2014 20:41 Dingodile wrote:
I also dont like if you focus too much on overlord placement around opponents base while you completely ignore overlord placement around your base. Happens 95% in pro-games.


Well it's a bit touchy because it really depends on what type of unit composition you're facing, it's quite rare to be in a spot where you can totally comfortably spread lots of overlords in ZvZ or ZvP, even if you're going for some form of skyzerg there is very often a timing when you don't have map control due to his phoenix or other mutas, it's working under the assumption that losing those overlords en masse is not worth the information you're getting.
I'm an Animal
phantomfive
Profile Joined April 2010
Korea (South)404 Posts
August 26 2014 02:53 GMT
#14
nice
To ease another's heartache is to forget one's own - Lincoln
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
August 26 2014 04:28 GMT
#15
Overall, the guide looks pretty good. Naturally, there are certain substitutions that you can do and slightly different versions of overlord placements due to the map (i.e., on a 4-player map, the positions for the 1st/2nd overlord are swappable depending on position and the way you scout first, etc.), but you do a fair job of explaining where everything should go.

Personally, I would prefer to have an outline of: this is what you're going to be looking for, so this is where you need to place your overlords, and then just make a generalized list. Whether or not it's your first, second, or third overlord, you still need to get those first 3 in SOME KIND of critical setup, even if they don't match the specific number. Is this making sense?

Other thing is make sure you're uploading pictures through TL via the ^Upload Image link right above the chat box that you type into. This is to make sure that your pictures are more uniform and fit into TL properly. One more nitpicky thing: make sure you turn the healthbars off for pictures (unless you're obviously indicating health) and save pictures as jpegs, not as pngs. It just comes out better that way.

For best results on pictures, center them and italicize the text underneath:
[ center][ img]Really cool pic[ /img]
[ i]Caption underneath[ /i][ /center]

Although, obviously without the spaces so that it actually works lol.
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Lobotomist
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1541 Posts
August 26 2014 18:07 GMT
#16
ZvT overlord placement is an interesting topic. A lot of times terrain will get one early viking out and you don't want every single overlord out on the map when that happens. Once you do get mutas out (or when the spire is building and there's no viking, spreading out overlords is great though.
Teching to hive too quickly isn't just a risk: it's an ultrarisk
Dingodile
Profile Joined December 2011
4133 Posts
August 26 2014 19:23 GMT
#17
On August 26 2014 01:07 DIRESTRAIT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2014 20:41 Dingodile wrote:
I also dont like if you focus too much on overlord placement around opponents base while you completely ignore overlord placement around your base. Happens 95% in pro-games.


Well it's a bit touchy because it really depends on what type of unit composition you're facing, it's quite rare to be in a spot where you can totally comfortably spread lots of overlords in ZvZ or ZvP, even if you're going for some form of skyzerg there is very often a timing when you don't have map control due to his phoenix or other mutas, it's working under the assumption that losing those overlords en masse is not worth the information you're getting.

ZvT: Drops at Mainbase
ZvP: Warpins/Drops from Warp Prism at Mainbase.

Most Zerg players just dont make overlord placement at any time around your base.
Grubby | ToD | Moon | Lyn | Sky
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