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// Intro:
I CC first in all of my games across all matchups and it works really well even against several of the cheesier builds out there from 1 base to 2 base early aggression.
I've seen a lot of threads lately about people theorizing semi cheesy builds to get over the 'terran underpowered' flavor going around right now. I think CC first is not only viable, but it's highly preferred to start your games with a more macro oriented mindset and do your best to really get your mechanics down.
Keep in mind I'm not Grand Master, in fact I'm far from that, but there are many people out there looking for advice and feel they are out of options and ready to switch races, or resort to economic crippling all-ins/cheese.
At one point I was in mid to high Master League. Took more than a year off, and I'm less than one month back into it so take these replays for what they are worth.
// Replays:
1. http://drop.sc/367719
- TvT, CC first against double reaper opening
2. http://drop.sc/367718
- TvT, CC first against proxy widow mine into cloak banshee oepning
3. http://drop.sc/367721
- TvT, CC first against cloaked banshee+tank timing 1 base
4. http://drop.sc/367723
- TvZ, CC first against early roach+baneling
5. http://drop.sc/367722
- TvZ, CC first against early 3rd
6. http://drop.sc/367725
- TvP, CC first against early proxy pylon aggression into fast storm
7. http://drop.sc/367724
- TvP, CC first against fast expanding toss
* I have several replays, but these are the most recent *
// General Build Order:
10 - Depot (Use this SCV to scout immediately after depot)
14 - CC
15 - Rax [1]
16 - Rax [2]
@CC's finishing, Upgrade to Orbitals and bunker at front
- 1 marine in the bunker only, and the rest up the ramp ready for any cheese/Oracle harass.
@150 minerals - Rax [3]
@5:00 - Double gas
@150 gas - Factory + Tech lab on rax for stim
@100% Factory > Starport + Reactor on Factory
@100% Starport > 2 medivacs
@300 minerals - Rax [4] and [5]
- Once your 2 medivacs are ready you will have more than enough units to fill them both with units left over. Use your 2 medivacs to harass while taking a 3rd base.
If you do enough damage you can decide whether you want to just kill them or continue with stabilizing your 3rd base.
Make sure you use the boost on your medivacs the second they are filled and move out. If you continue to use your boost effectively the drops come a lot sooner than they expect.
Also, if you scout the front and see hardly any units at all then you can decide to straight up attack the front instead of dropping.
// Terran vs Protoss side note:
I find this build not only defends most to any 1 base cheese Protoss can throw at you, but also secures you a lead in the macro game.
Just make sure that the first scv you send out to scout see's as much as it can and then exits, but doesn't return home and stays alive. You want to go back into the base anywhere around 7 minutes and see what tech route they're going. You can also choose to waste a scan if you can't keep an scv alive.
-CC first, or die trying; We can do this!
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But in TvZ going CC first has no disadvantage against roach baneling all-in.
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On December 12 2013 10:22 EvilZergling wrote:// Intro:I CC first in all of my games across all matchups and it works really well even against several of the cheesier builds out there from 1 base to 2 base early aggression. I've seen a lot of threads lately about people theorizing semi cheesy builds to get over the 'terran underpowered' flavor going around right now. I think CC first is not only viable, but it's highly preferred to start your games with a more macro oriented mindset and do your best to really get your mechanics down. Keep in mind I'm not Grand Master, in fact I'm far from that, but there are many people out there looking for advice and feel they are out of options and ready to switch races, or resort to economic crippling all-ins/cheese. At one point I was in mid to high Master League. Took more than a year off, and I'm less than one month back into it so take these replays for what they are worth. // Replays: 1. http://drop.sc/367719- TvT, CC first against double reaper opening 2. http://drop.sc/367718- TvT, CC first against proxy widow mine into cloak banshee oepning 3. http://drop.sc/367721- TvT, CC first against cloaked banshee+tank timing 1 base 4. http://drop.sc/367723- TvZ, CC first against early roach+baneling 5. http://drop.sc/367722- TvZ, CC first against early 3rd 6. http://drop.sc/367725- TvP, CC first against early proxy pylon aggression into fast storm 7. http://drop.sc/367724- TvP, CC first against fast expanding toss * I have several replays, but these are the most recent * // General Build Order:10 - Depot (Use this SCV to scout immediately after depot) 14 - CC 15 - Rax [1] 16 - Rax [2] @CC's finishing, Upgrade to Orbitals and bunker at front - 1 marine in the bunker only, and the rest up the ramp ready for any cheese/Oracle harass. @150 minerals - Rax [3] @5:00 - Double gas @150 gas - Factory + Tech lab on rax for stim @100% Factory > Starport + Reactor on Factory @100% Starport > 2 medivacs @300 minerals - Rax [4] and [5] - Once your 2 medivacs are ready you will have more than enough units to fill them both with units left over. Use your 2 medivacs to harass while taking a 3rd base. If you do enough damage you can decide whether you want to just kill them or continue with stabilizing your 3rd base. Make sure you use the boost on your medivacs the second they are filled and move out. If you continue to use your boost effectively the drops come a lot sooner than they expect. Also, if you scout the front and see hardly any units at all then you can decide to straight up attack the front instead of dropping. // Terran vs Protoss side note:I find this build not only defends most to any 1 base cheese Protoss can throw at you, but also secures you a lead in the macro game. Just make sure that the first scv you send out to scout see's as much as it can and then exits, but doesn't return home and stays alive. You want to go back into the base anywhere around 7 minutes and see what tech route they're going. You can also choose to waste a scan if you can't keep an scv alive. -CC first, or die trying; We can do this!
This is a very strong method to get into higher leagues. Sticking to one build across all matchups and executing it with air-tight performance should get you into Diamond league no problem.
I did this 2 seasons ago but I did the 1 Rax FE in every matchup and it got me into Diamond league.
Basically the angle you are going for is this:
"In lower leagues a lot of players are cheesing, doing all-ins, and trying to kill you quickly... If I focus on a strong, air-tight economic opener with an emphasis on scouting and early-game reading, I will win a lot of games"
This is very true, however once you hit diamond, people are doing the exact same thing except they have strong strategies to go with it so at this point obviously, you'll need to ante up and formulate strategies that go all the way to late game.
I think I'll start doing this myself again because I'm a little obsessed with 1-1-1 at the moment and should re-focus on the most basic of basic builds. It's now wonder I'm currently languishing in platinum league because I watch too many pro vods/streams and I'm trying to execute builds that require multi-tasking and micro I simply do not have.
It's very motivating and encouraging to know what the hell you're doing, and not having to worry about executing 3 different builds perfectly in order to get into the higher leagues.
Thanks for the post, this has been refreshing.
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@Dan26, I appreciate the feedback thank you 
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United Kingdom20285 Posts
"In lower leagues a lot of players are cheesing, doing all-ins, and trying to kill you quickly... If I focus on a strong, air-tight economic opener with an emphasis on scouting and early-game reading, I will win a lot of games"
This is very true, however once you hit diamond, people are doing the exact same thing except they have strong strategies to go with it so at this point obviously, you'll need to ante up and formulate strategies that go all the way to late game.
I disagree there, it's just the higher you go, the more innate knowledge and skill you need to be able to win easily without that other stuff. One person could say "once you hit gm.." just as much as another could say "once you hit gold"
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On December 12 2013 11:02 Dan26 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 10:22 EvilZergling wrote:// Intro:I CC first in all of my games across all matchups and it works really well even against several of the cheesier builds out there from 1 base to 2 base early aggression. I've seen a lot of threads lately about people theorizing semi cheesy builds to get over the 'terran underpowered' flavor going around right now. I think CC first is not only viable, but it's highly preferred to start your games with a more macro oriented mindset and do your best to really get your mechanics down. Keep in mind I'm not Grand Master, in fact I'm far from that, but there are many people out there looking for advice and feel they are out of options and ready to switch races, or resort to economic crippling all-ins/cheese. At one point I was in mid to high Master League. Took more than a year off, and I'm less than one month back into it so take these replays for what they are worth. // Replays: 1. http://drop.sc/367719- TvT, CC first against double reaper opening 2. http://drop.sc/367718- TvT, CC first against proxy widow mine into cloak banshee oepning 3. http://drop.sc/367721- TvT, CC first against cloaked banshee+tank timing 1 base 4. http://drop.sc/367723- TvZ, CC first against early roach+baneling 5. http://drop.sc/367722- TvZ, CC first against early 3rd 6. http://drop.sc/367725- TvP, CC first against early proxy pylon aggression into fast storm 7. http://drop.sc/367724- TvP, CC first against fast expanding toss * I have several replays, but these are the most recent * // General Build Order:10 - Depot (Use this SCV to scout immediately after depot) 14 - CC 15 - Rax [1] 16 - Rax [2] @CC's finishing, Upgrade to Orbitals and bunker at front - 1 marine in the bunker only, and the rest up the ramp ready for any cheese/Oracle harass. @150 minerals - Rax [3] @5:00 - Double gas @150 gas - Factory + Tech lab on rax for stim @100% Factory > Starport + Reactor on Factory @100% Starport > 2 medivacs @300 minerals - Rax [4] and [5] - Once your 2 medivacs are ready you will have more than enough units to fill them both with units left over. Use your 2 medivacs to harass while taking a 3rd base. If you do enough damage you can decide whether you want to just kill them or continue with stabilizing your 3rd base. Make sure you use the boost on your medivacs the second they are filled and move out. If you continue to use your boost effectively the drops come a lot sooner than they expect. Also, if you scout the front and see hardly any units at all then you can decide to straight up attack the front instead of dropping. // Terran vs Protoss side note:I find this build not only defends most to any 1 base cheese Protoss can throw at you, but also secures you a lead in the macro game. Just make sure that the first scv you send out to scout see's as much as it can and then exits, but doesn't return home and stays alive. You want to go back into the base anywhere around 7 minutes and see what tech route they're going. You can also choose to waste a scan if you can't keep an scv alive. -CC first, or die trying; We can do this! This is a very strong method to get into higher leagues. Sticking to one build across all matchups and executing it with air-tight performance should get you into Diamond league no problem. I did this 2 seasons ago but I did the 1 Rax FE in every matchup and it got me into Diamond league. Basically the angle you are going for is this: "In lower leagues a lot of players are cheesing, doing all-ins, and trying to kill you quickly... If I focus on a strong, air-tight economic opener with an emphasis on scouting and early-game reading, I will win a lot of games" This is very true, however once you hit diamond, people are doing the exact same thing except they have strong strategies to go with it so at this point obviously, you'll need to ante up and formulate strategies that go all the way to late game. I think I'll start doing this myself again because I'm a little obsessed with 1-1-1 at the moment and should re-focus on the most basic of basic builds. It's now wonder I'm currently languishing in platinum league because I watch too many pro vods/streams and I'm trying to execute builds that require multi-tasking and micro I simply do not have. It's very motivating and encouraging to know what the hell you're doing, and not having to worry about executing 3 different builds perfectly in order to get into the higher leagues. Thanks for the post, this has been refreshing.
People in diamond don't have strong strategies. maybe the beginnings of a general gameplan but nothing exceptional
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Very nice post. Will definitely check out your replays.
I've been at work on the other side of the planet for far too long and I am really looking forward to hitting the ladder hard when I get back.
This might be just what I am looking for!
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@WiggyB, Glad I could help. ^_^
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hi, switching from zerg (high master) to terran. i will be using the TL 4m guide for TvZ, but not sure how to approach the other two mu's...so for TvP, i will start with the build youve indicated here, as it looks pretty good, and i am the type of player who prefers strong mechanics and macro play over cheese/BO-wins. so this will fit my playstyle.
any more tips for TvP besides whats included in this guide, and any tips for TvT?
also, i know i just got done saying i prefer macro play, but would be nice to throw in some cheeses every now and then...any tips on strong timing attacks, and what is the best proxy rax build?
thx.
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I like this! Tried out a tvz with this and it's also now my tvp build!
My only concern is for tvt. I can't really see any problem with it except for very aggressive early timings from your opponent... In particular, 2 rax reaper, a build I am very familiar with, having used it since beta.
I watched the replay listed but the reaper-player's reapers were so slow to get to his base (He could've even gotten his first reaper out earlier, by getting rax and refinery at 11 supply.). Also this was a four-player map. What if it was a 1v1-map? Those reapers should be there in time to wreak absolute havoc to anything, hard-countering such greedy play. I can't see this build being safe to reapers without some stellar scv-micro... Sure you might get your marines eventually, assuming the reaper doesn't make you cancel and fumble the building of the raxes, but they will get taken out by an overwhelming amount of reapers soon anyway.
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@j00, I don't have any specific tips per say besides the closing note I included at the end. I like to play pretty reactive, so for me.. scouting is a big deal and I make sure and hide an scv or two close to the enemy base ready to run in or see anything coming out to properly prepare myself for whatever I need.
As for TvT. Although I still CC first in most of my games, having a backup cheesy build is always a good idea to have in your back pocket. I myself have a cloak banshee opening followed by a widow mine, seige tank timing attack which I discovered from a game showcased in Day[9]'s archive. I forget what match it was though, I apologize. If I find the time today to look it up I'll post it for a reference.
@Rambo, I somewhat agree. In the game where my opponent tried a double reaper rushed he did kind of do it later than what I usually expect, and I got lucky it being a 4 player map. I think that on 2 player maps it could still work, but you have to be very aware of what map you're playing. With experience you will learn where on the map the reaper is going to jump up into your base. So, with my first couple of marines I have out I'll strategically place the first 1-2 marines and a patrolling scv at the ledge I expect them to jump up on. In most cases I will kill the reaper before they realize they're taking damage.
I'm not in super high leagues though, so I could be getting lucky. Positioning is definitely key against reapers.
Another trick I learned from watching korean streamers is when all else fails, grab 3-4 scv to attack the reaper and always always always select the closest scv to the reaper and have them retreat after 2 reaper shots. It takes some micro, but if you practice this enough it gets easier to hold off the reaper harass at least until a marine or two is out to help.
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Awesome! It's nice to know that this CC first provides a solid stem build from which you can deviate into variations based on scouting. I would like to see some more TvP replays of this. I hope you will supplement the replays to show games against builds ike 1 or 2 base blink, 3 gate with proxy oracle, and other such things.
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This isn't really a guide, since you fail to describe your build in the Guide to any sufficient depth. No discussion of any hard allins that are still defensible (and the tricks to doing so). This is really just a discussion at a way you've found to work it into matchups it wasn't favored in with some replays to back it up. This is not to say I don't appreciate having some interesting replays to watch nor discussion to be hashed out.
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Against every Terran, I've been cranking out a quick Zealot/Stalker/MsC and sending them directly to my opponent's base while adding a second Stalker and rallying it across. It usually arrives early enough to snipe the SCV building the bunker. Watch out for that, as I've won many games simply on the back of that pressure (so has Dear... it's not just a newbie trick).
Also I feel like a well executed Proxy Oracle should massacre this. Every time I've done it Terran has had zero chance going CC first.
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@DinoMight, good to know. I have a pretty skilled Protoss friend so perhaps I can have this do this to me over and over to ensure I can respond appropriately to it.
I do have replays of defending some well executed proxy oracle rushes, but I'm not sure I saved them. I'll have to look into that and see what I can provide.
The big part of the build is that early scout, so if I see that Protoss is one pylon too short at home, and/or a very fast double gas then I'll make sure and do my due diligence in scouting and preparing for it.
I welcome any feedback though, thank you .
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You will have to pull & lose scv's vs. a Z-S-MSC poke.
Given you have double orbital, that's perfectly fine. You'll still be ahead w/ 5ish scv deaths.
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I like this a lot. CC first is a really sexy build. If you don't go hellions against Zerg though....gulp. If I saw you didn't you would get abused like fuck.
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On December 13 2013 05:54 EvilZergling wrote:@DinoMight, good to know. I have a pretty skilled Protoss friend so perhaps I can have this do this to me over and over to ensure I can respond appropriately to it. I do have replays of defending some well executed proxy oracle rushes, but I'm not sure I saved them. I'll have to look into that and see what I can provide. The big part of the build is that early scout, so if I see that Protoss is one pylon too short at home, and/or a very fast double gas then I'll make sure and do my due diligence in scouting and preparing for it. I welcome any feedback though, thank you .
Yeah. As more people go 1 reaper > reactor or CC first that poke has become pretty standard for me.
Also, sometimes I plop my nexus down at the natural and then immediately make a Stargate and get 1-2 oracles for harass. It often catches the Terran by surprise because they're just not expecting it (and unless they want to waste a scan, they have no way to scout it if the went CC first)
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On December 13 2013 00:27 EvilZergling wrote:
As for TvT. Although I still CC first in most of my games, having a backup cheesy build is always a good idea to have in your back pocket. I myself have a cloak banshee opening followed by a widow mine, seige tank timing attack which I discovered from a game showcased in Day[9]'s archive. I forget what match it was though, I apologize. If I find the time today to look it up I'll post it for a reference.
It sounds like your talking about the maru vs innovation daily.
Thats actually another very nice build. Relatively easy to pull off. And you go for an all in (if you spot greediness from your opponent) , an aggressive push. Our follow up with a CC. All of which you can do you after you scout with the first banshee. I recommend watching this daily a lot!
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doing 1 build every game through every matchup will only hurt you in the long run. Your mechanics will be tied to this build, rather than being able to be mechanically proficient in any situation. I used to do these kinds of things because the aspect of having my own style really appealed to me. However as I did cc first or 1 rax fe EVERY game for thousands, I quickly realized that if I had practiced many builds to perfection, rather than doing the same monotonous routine every game I could have enjoyed the game more and become better faster.
I'm not saying cc first is bad, I think its actually great, just that this mindset can get you into some trouble 
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On December 13 2013 06:45 Qwyn wrote:
I like this a lot. CC first is a really sexy build. If you don't go hellions against Zerg though....gulp. If I saw you didn't you would get abused like fuck.
Yeah, but this build isn't for super high level play. I personally am going to use this build get my mechanics back to where they should be.
I'm hitting the ladder really hard soon when I get back . And I'm not stopping till at least plat. But diamond would be cool
And it's not too difficult to switch it up a bit.
CC first, rax and then gas. Then factory, reactor on barracks. Perform the old switcheroo. And bam! CC first into reactor hellions.
And honestly, at bronze, silver gold League (I go up and down a lot due to long periods away at work) I rarely come across early aggression from zergs. Normally holding back till they get mutas out.
It's protoss you have to worry about. Those guys are cheesy as fuck! Lol
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i disagree with the scouting on 10
lets say on a 2p map you see no hatch\pool\rax on small maps you might be able to change your build by not making a cc and 3 barracks
however on any 4p map you have a high chance of not seeing that. this means you should be able to blindly defend or you shoudnt be doing this
combibed with the fact that
a) one scv is 10% of your income at 10
b), proxy rushes are near non existant vs terran (13 Rax counters them all)
c) you dont see anything vital anyway
d) you go 3 rax before gas, one of the least greedy followups, if you saw cheese what would you do differently?
e) good players hide what they're doing anyway
d) that missing scv might equal to 2 vital marines earlier
i would scout at maybe 15, or even when the barracks /cc completes
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also i think 8\8\8 reaper counters this super hard vs t a super safe yet greedier build than your opponent is 13 rax - 16gas - Cc
this will have a viking, turrets and widow mines ready. as well as the option of quickly getting siege tanks. A one base tank push is super hard to hold wih cc first
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On December 13 2013 11:58 biology]major wrote:doing 1 build every game through every matchup will only hurt you in the long run. Your mechanics will be tied to this build, rather than being able to be mechanically proficient in any situation. I used to do these kinds of things because the aspect of having my own style really appealed to me. However as I did cc first or 1 rax fe EVERY game for thousands, I quickly realized that if I had practiced many builds to perfection, rather than doing the same monotonous routine every game I could have enjoyed the game more and become better faster. I'm not saying cc first is bad, I think its actually great, just that this mindset can get you into some trouble
I really don't understand the point you're trying to make. Is it that practicing multiple builds can be good? No one is disputing that. But as far as mechanics go - you can hone your mechanics independently of a build. Builds take practice, sure but there's a lot of situations where players do the same things every single game.
StarCraft is a game of "monotonous routines." It's getting to the convergence points in the game - and then beyond that which makes it fun.
You are quite well off practicing one build - and if you stagnate - perhaps it's not the build you are using but how you approach the game. You should always be looking for answers -and much like a sword or any other weapon - perhaps it is not the tool you are USING, but how you USE that tool.
If you should choose to, say, go without hellions in a TvZ, ask yourself what your build can do that a hellion opener can not - ask yourself the benefits and the drawbacks. To be sure, question the build, that is a lot of the fun of playing this game.
And as far as talking about styles - I would never, ever say that the build you use represents your "style." A style is much, much more than the opening build you use to get to a convergence point in the game! And it is much more than your patterns of aggression or your psychological mindset - though that is a very big part of it.
Just try to start thinking more in depth about the game (not you in particular, everyone!) And when you think you've gotten deep enough, dig deeper...That's how the most beautiful answers are found.
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Hey EvilZergling....or should I say PAiN. I saw you posts on the SC2 forums and liked your mindset. I'm gonna try meching for a bit and if that doesn't work ill give CC first a shot.
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On December 14 2013 00:25 FiveOhFirst wrote:
Hey EvilZergling....or should I say PAiN. I saw you posts on the SC2 forums and liked your mindset. I'm gonna try meching for a bit and if that doesn't work ill give CC first a shot.
Haha yup that's me. Glad I could help .
It's good to mix it up.
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In TvT people 2 rax reaper alot in plat, and that kills me like 100% of the time. Other than tvt i cc first.
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ahaha
I always do cc first or 1rax expo also...screw the cheeses :D
But to be honest your build order could use some improvement you ''push'' with 83 supplies @10 min.
Also your macro is a bad at some points,while not doing anything you float at 700 minerals.
It should be 100 supplies (2 medivac and +1 atk ) at the 10 min mark.
But hey that's pretty ok for a gold,keep up the work man !
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I am a starcraft student, so please bear with me
The standard CC opening has the first two barracks builds at 15 and 16 supply. But after conducting some simulations, I get this build as an optimal solution:
10 Supply Depot
13 Command Center
13 2 Barracks
15 Marine
16 2 Orbital Command
...
This allows for 3 marines before 4:30, and 5 marines + bunker before 5:00. Two missile turrets by 7:50. Finally 51 SCV, 30 Marines, 5 Marauders, 4 Medivacs, Stimpack, Combat Shield, Infantry Weapons 1 (100 supply) at 9:30.
Is there an advantage to building the barracks at 15,16 instead of 13 (2x) ?
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Northern Ireland461 Posts
On April 08 2014 03:47 drKobalt wrote:I am a starcraft student, so please bear with me The standard CC opening has the first two barracks builds at 15 and 16 supply. But after conducting some simulations, I get this build as an optimal solution: 10 Supply Depot 13 Command Center 13 2 Barracks 15 Marine 16 2 Orbital Command ... This allows for 3 marines before 4:30, and 5 marines + bunker before 5:00. Two missile turrets by 7:50. Finally 51 SCV, 30 Marines, 5 Marauders, 4 Medivacs, Stimpack, Combat Shield, Infantry Weapons 1 (100 supply) at 9:30. Is there an advantage to building the barracks at 15,16 instead of 13 (2x) ?
It's just sub optimal. If you CC first you go 14 CC, not 13. You are cutting economy to afford 400 + 150 x2 minerals to place all your structures down at 13.
That being said, there have been variations, particularly in TvP, where Pros tinker with the Barracks timings, going 14/15 or even 16/17 depending how greedy they want to play.
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This is going to die to 90% of reaper openings, and that's no joke. Against anybody who knows what they're doing micro-wise, you're in really deep shit. But I give you kudos on the macro part, I think Diamond is full of so much cheese and all in play, as long as you can scout it and hold it, you're going to win a lot of game. I prefer to go 1 rax fe or 9 sd 12 gas 12 rax 15 reactor (pull off gas) 15 oc 15 sd and cc as soon as you can afford it, this gets me a beefy marine count into the mid game, capable of harassing zerg third, denying terran tank push or banshee or drop, killing oracle, or holding 3-4 gate.
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the standard is 14 cc 15 rax 17 rax. You can make the second rax on 16 and not lose much scv time on the main cc and have 19/19 when both orbital commands start, it just loses a little time.
going 13 cc 13 rax 13 rax puts you down a ton of minerals. You're starting oc's on 16 not 19, so you're down like 3 scvs. If you're worried about early gateway attacks or w/e just don't open cc first (really reaper into 3 rax is probably the best tvp opener atm).
opening CC first in tvt is extremely risky. Not just to aforementioned Reaper play but also proxies, and it can be awkward to defend 12 gas play as well.
It's ok in tvz though, but I personally prefer opening reaper in that matchup.
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I'm scared shitless whenever I don't open Reaper. Polt does it every single game in every matchup. It's good.
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EPT
