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[H] ZvT how to stop Marine/Rauder/Hellbat/Medivac - Page 3

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Dvriel
Profile Joined November 2011
607 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-01 11:03:29
June 01 2013 11:02 GMT
#41
On June 01 2013 19:18 StatixEx wrote:
mate i have this same problem now EVERY zvt, Its not the fact that the comp they have is a problem its their remax. Banes are a one shot punch and when you use them or morph them you deplete so much gas when you need to do it again you dont really have the econ because.......

they drop with a couple of those hellbats and you take significant damage to your econ, and usually at the time of the game where everything is a mess anyway (if they do it early it can ruin you as well) every says put down spines, put down spores . . .well i saw moonglade mass do this like literally 5 or 6 spores asround each baseand its DIDNT MATTER. The hellbats got in did the damage. At the time i thought it was good . . .but in the meantime moons standing army wasnt that big and the other guys tanks marauders thors and hellbats part of their main army rolled him, after he killed it twice . .. the terran just kept coming.

I do believe mutalisks are the way to go but you just cant seem to get enough of them, they directly counter the hellbats, tanks and marauders and so some extent with mboxing thors . . .but its the handfull of fucking marines which kill them, the maraduers they produce stop the banes and if you try to focus with the mutas the thor splash rapes the mutas and the lings cant get the surround they need and roaches are good but they dont seem to do the dps you need. SO

Vipers. Blinding cloud. Ive been having a bit of success with this but its the whole thing of having the econ to support it they can basically harass for free and we cant get into their lines really, and if we do with the lisks 300m of marines. and 3 turrets is enough where we have spent all of our gas and usually most of the minerals to get numbers up enough to do actual damage.

Yes i hear you man, but i dont think its the comp it seems to be the remax of the terran which is the problem, they seem to be able to produce just as much shit at us which by default is way more cost efficient]



here are some of my reps where i won (it is getting to that point where i want to play as terran just to do this)

Now im not a masters player but i watch a hell of a lot of streams and everyone is having an issue with this to a point, but you have to nail it exactly right and you arent allowed to make mistakes, a-moving WILL get you killed

1. BC the tanks first and a thors (need 5 vipers fully charged ive found)
2 A-move your army into their just to get close to exvery thing is fighting and magic box 1 thor leave these lisks
3 - MACRO MORE ARMY, roaches may be good as they live longer or lings to morph purely to banes
4. select hydras and target thors
5- a-move everything closer and send the remaining viper energy on the tanks

now this doesnt always work but ive been satisfied to see a few marauders and a couple of tanks left over where another round of lings cleans it up BUT

they come at you with a very similar sized push . . .and i cant stop that usually. Im really really trying to find a way to beat this at my skill level and im prepared to sit and practice with someone if they want to frind me, but which terran wants to give this strangle hold up!

http://sc2replaystats.com/replay/41600




What League are you? I am Diamond Terran. If you want, we can practice whatevr BO you need. Tell me here or PM.
Holo82
Profile Joined April 2013
Austria107 Posts
June 01 2013 12:08 GMT
#42
Small Tutorial for Zerg to not die to hellbat drops, followed up by 2 base marauder / hellbat allin:

Hellbats are slow. they are slower than workers. they are even slower than queens. Medivacs with boost are fast. the combination of both makes hellbats faster, therefore dangerous. The danger doesn't lie in the hellbats, but in the medivac. The solution doesn't lie in direct combat with hellbat force, but in avoiding the medivac micro over your bunched up workers.

1) build a queen and a spore per base, have them chip away the medivac.
If hellbats are unloaded, run away with workers + lings + queens. dont clump them up, because a pickup and redrop might occur. Make sure, pickup will not occur by having queen hurting medivac into retreat. go back to mining, kill hellbats that have not been picked up with roaches.

2) make a Roachwarren, if this kind of play is suspected. Generally, a Roachwarren is always a good idea, as other similar openers of t might by widowmines, bio , or 3 cc double ebay greed, which both are shutdown /countered by a random high number of roach.

The only thing a hellbat drop does to a zerg that is prepared, is deny some mining time, and if lucky, get a queen and perhaps 1 or 2 drones from the gas geysers if really comitted.

To hold the allin: i think pure pumping roaches is enough. just macro hatch mass roaches, no ammount of 2 base marauders will power threw 3 base roaches, as roaches are cheaper. if u have gas over, some banelings or Hydralisk, infestors or mutalisk.
Hydralisk in ZVT are very underestimated by many zerg, their dps is awsome, and their defensive value togeter with roaches is huge.

5 Hydralisk defenslve positioned are shutting medivac drops down way harder than a bunch of 15 mutalisk ever could.

Generally, from t perspective, Mutalisk in ZvT is often overestimated by many zerg, they are very weak in defensive combat situation.
Investing big ammounts of Gas into Mutalisk in a close game is very often the cause for a Zerg to lose a ZVT.
Muta Job is scouting, anti drop play, picking up single reinforcements, getting some unguarded workers, addons and stuff like that. Muta is not good for combat, and if u are getting allined, u want to have combat units.

roaches, hydras, they can fight.
Mutas can fly around fast and look awesome,
but this will not help winning against a guy that just pulled his 45 workers together with hellbats and marauders and moves in direction of your 3rd.
StatixEx
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United Kingdom779 Posts
June 01 2013 15:34 GMT
#43
HEY GUY ABOVE, i think me and you played yesterday and you did this strat and then told me mutalisks are a bad idea after then telling me you had no idea who life and leenock are who USE mutalisks against this strat, the difference between us and them is we cant get enough out to do the damage and contain harass we need so in a manner of speaking yes . . the mutas arent that good.

see tanks, hellbats marauders and vacs . . . are countered by mutalisks! (oh and build a roach warren should go in your step 1 btw) and have you seen roaches against hellbats . . unless you have a load of them they take ages to kill them in the mean time i think a hellbat can 1 on 1 a spine as i had 2 in my lines and you killed one, got away droped and did more damage.

and muta is good for combat just you need to be pretty good at controlling 2 armies, 3/3 mutas with a backbone roach army is damn good
ShamW0W
Profile Joined March 2010
160 Posts
June 01 2013 15:53 GMT
#44
I still advocate Roaches into Hydras to deal with this along with other, non-tank, forms of Terran play. At lower skill levels you're likely going to be flipping coins on if you trade effectively with ling/bane/muta. However, using Roach/Hydra you can focus on more controlled engagements where Roaches can actually be super cost-effective against most Terran compositions early game. If they go pure Marauder/Hellbat then building a wave of Hydras is going to clean that up no problem. (be sure to snipe Medivacs)
Half-Man Half-Amazing
willstertben
Profile Joined May 2013
427 Posts
June 01 2013 18:35 GMT
#45
as shown by soulkey today a 2-2 roach hydra allin can be a really powerful response to a hellbat drop opener. if he didn't throw away so many units before actually attacking he would have CRUSHED innovation hard. he still almost broke him.
mass roaches + banes is the best way to hold this for sure and that transitions pretty smoothly into the aforementioned allin.
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