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Spoiler Warning - You may want to watch the series before reading the post / comments.
Hey guys,
Yesterday I was scratching my head about how Zergs should play against Terran in HotS, but after watching Life's sick run through The MLG Winter Championship, I don't think anyone can argue the effectiveness of a Zergling-centric style. I've written down some (incomplete) observations, and was hoping others could contribute their notes as well.
Openings
+ Show Spoiler +10Pool Opening:10 Pool Double extractor trick to 12/10 12 Overlord 12-15 Lings 15 Queen 17 Ling 18 Drones 20 Hatch I'm really impressed with how well this opening went for Life. Most early pools rely on killing workers, but Life's version seems economic enough to transition well even without doing much damage. He only makes 8 Zerglings (not a huge commitment), and goes into an expansion and gas afterwards. He generally gets 100 gas for Speed, and periodically builds some Lings to shut down pressure. Sacrificing some economy for Zerglings seems to be a recurring theme in Life's games. Hatch-First Opening15 Hatch 17 Gas 16 Pool 17 Overlord Drones out of gas after 100 (Though sometimes he left 1 in gas) I didn't actually see Life play against Reapers with this opening, but with the early speed he'd probably hold with good micro. If you're interested in the next-steps of this build, check out Lowko's Video on Life.
Transitions:
+ Show Spoiler +For the most part, Life played a +1/+1 Zergling-centric style of mid-game with Banelings and a delayed Lair for Mutalisks/Speed, but had a few variations:
Aggressive +1/+1 Speed-Baneling
This was just a sick timing that Life used to great effect in the finals. He went for very fast third and droned hard, but as usual still built enough Lings to get decent map control and vision. The vision was key for him, because he was able to hide a bunch of Lings mid-field to execute a massive +1/+1 Speedling/Baneling timings. The timing hit around 11 Minutes with about 30+ Banelings and who knows how many Zerglings. Perhaps an All-In (Or is it?) thread is in order. . .
Delayed-Lair Ling/Baneling/Mutalisk
By delaying Lair to 9:30/10:00, Life was able to keep a competitive economy while executing his usual +1/+1 Zergling-Centric mid-game. When Lair finished, he moved into Baneling Speed, 2/2, and Spire to complete a balanced mid-game. It seems inevitable that Widow Mines get some good connections with Zerg armies, but Life's army-splitting was on the ball. Once Overseers were on the field it was easier for Life to snipe those pesky mines. He used multi-pronged aggression to secure small leads, shut down drops with relative ease, and control the middle of the map. I wish I could multitask like that! In the later stages, Life added Ultralisks to tank/dps and Vipers to snag those Medivacs. So sick!
7:00 Lair / Mutalisk
After a few aggressive Baneling timings, Life switched it up and went for a 7:00 Lair, allowing him to start some unexpected Mutalisk harass as early as 11minutes.
I hope you all enjoyed the series as much as I did!
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Thanks for this!! Can't wait to use it!
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On March 18 2013 10:19 ODKStevez wrote:
Thanks for this!! Can't wait to use it!
You and me both, what fantastic play!
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Life, is The King of Blades.
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Life's imba, Life is not fair!!!!!!..... Just kidding!! honestly he pulled out something special just like when FruitDealer won his tournament. He's going to be the most analysed zerg player until now.....
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This strat was amazing, definitely going to shift the meta.Awesome Review Tim!!
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United Kingdom20285 Posts
He was able to hit wall vs safe cc first several times and come out completely fine, flash was 9scouting 2 player maps and going cc first after the nat hatch got scouted with his CC on lowground, or on highground as part of wall on 4 player maps - without a scout because you cant confirm early pool or not in time, very efficient play but Life somehow manages to come out of 10pool completely ok without breaking the wall or doing any conventional damage, just causing quite some delays
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On March 18 2013 10:30 Cyro wrote:
He was able to hit wall vs safe cc first several times and come out completely fine
Exactly! That's why I was so baffled by game one.
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United Kingdom20285 Posts
I loved the play on both sides, Life is definately the one to copy.. making flash's early third cc double ebay with fastish medivacs after double ups look silly
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When would you suggest the third to be grabbed safely? Does he get 2 creep queens as well?
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On March 18 2013 10:30 Cyro wrote:
He was able to hit wall vs safe cc first several times and come out completely fine, flash was 9scouting 2 player maps and going cc first after the nat hatch got scouted with his CC on lowground, or on highground as part of wall on 4 player maps - without a scout because you cant confirm early pool or not in time, very efficient play but Life somehow manages to come out of 10pool completely ok without breaking the wall or doing any conventional damage, just causing quite some delays
This is because of larva inject and certain defensive measures from Terran and metagame on some maps. If Zerg economy is left untouched larva inject always out economies Protoss/Terran economy.
The reason this 10 pool has zero drawback is because on maps like whirlwind or any large map (or if you know the opponent opens 14 CC) the map is favored to Zerg due to the huge distance in the first place.
Metagame-wise this means Terran has to go with a massive all-in, proxy 11/11 or go for the 14/15 CC to have a chance. Zerg can then go 10 pool to punish this and be unpunishable due to the map distance which allows pure droning meaning Zerg will catch-up and exceed T economy while still possibly auto-winning vs a low ground CC and forcing 2-4 SCVs to be pulled to repair the walled up 15 CC variation.
10 pool basically has no drawback if the map is whirlwind or any map of similar size.
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Terrans think Mines are able to replace the Siege Tank in the early game, but if you prevent critical mine hits which is really hard with Lings, then the 10 minute move out of the Terran just won't work. Toss can do something similar with Oracles. I think Terrans will have to come up with something new or their strong push timing will just be reflected everytime soon.
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I definitely do not have the skill required to replicate Lifes play as a Zerg. His play was awesome, but there is no way I can see me incorporating that into my 85apm. =)
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The thing is, as entertaining and awesome Life's play was, if all zergs have to play like that to win, i really don't think we will see any foreigner zergs beat any Koreans...ever. I know i can't duplicate that effort at the NA plat level against equal opponents and i don't see our pros doing it either. Makes me sad and i hope i'm wrong, but that was a performance that someone works their whole career to achieve, maybe holds it once or twice, then has a letdown.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On March 18 2013 11:45 cerebralz wrote:
The thing is, as entertaining and awesome Life's play was, if all zergs have to play like that to win, i really don't think we will see any foreigner zergs beat any Koreans...ever. I know i can't duplicate that effort at the NA plat level against equal opponents and i don't see our pros doing it either. Makes me sad and i hope i'm wrong, but that was a performance that someone works their whole career to achieve, maybe holds it once or twice, then has a letdown.
Good. I want to see lazy foreigners get completely crushed by koreans. This isn't a bad thing. We might see the return of the foreigner terran.
Life's style isn't about the builds. It's about how he moves his lings around to pressure the terran and find openings in the terran player's defense.
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Already seeing this on the ladder and lost to it like flash lol so I don't feel bad if flash died to it.
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Indeed impressive. I liked mc's builds too. He shut terrans down completely. Ofcourse, with mc's and life's strategies micro-ing well is important, need more apm!
It was a good MLG, ots of stuff to think about
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Game 3 Life vs Flash.
15~ Hatch
15 ~ Extra
15 ~ Pool
At 100 gas -> only 1 drone at gas with speed upgrade
At 100 gas -> add 2 drones gas+2 extractor
At 200 gas -> 2 evo chamber with +1 def/+1 attack melee
At 100 gas -> Lair
At 50 gas -> Bling nest
When u can after Lair pop Bling speed (before spire)
Then +2 attack/+2 def when +1/+1 is done.
Dunno about the timing when he can expand. I think it was when he have just enough gold to do.
Game 5 Life vs Flash
15 Hatch
18 hatch
17 Extractor
17 Pool
18 Over
At 100 gas Speed lings-> move worker from extractor to mineral
(Speed before any queen)
25 Queen
27 Queen+2x2 lings
29 over
When speed is done +2 extractor with 3 worker gas
Macro hatch on the main before lair
When 100 gas lair
When 150 gas start double evo
After bling nest when he can
When evo pop +1/+1
Speed bling when nest pop (lair is up).
Game 6 Life vs Flash
15 Hatch
17 Extractor
17 Pool
18 Over
20 Hatch
At 100 gas Speed lings-> 0 drone gas
22 2sets of lings
26 2xQueen
When speed is done 3 drones gas
At 100 gas lair+3 extractor
At 200 gas start 2 evolution chamber
When lair pop Spire
+1def/+1 atk melee when 2 evo pop
Dunno if mistake or not but at 1/2 spire bling nest launch
When Spire pop +1 air dmg for muta
+2def/+2 atj melee when +1/+1 done
Ps : Sorry if my english is bad.
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i hope everyone copies this because delaying double ups for 45 seconds and getting an early tank out on the high ground would end this.
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You pretty much nailed the transitions, this is exactly the themes I saw after watching the mlg.
On March 18 2013 13:18 ahw wrote:
i hope everyone copies this because delaying double ups for 45 seconds and getting an early tank out on the high ground would end this.
You underestimate both the midgame presence and scouting potential of the build, as well as the strengths of the economy for zerglings, to think this has a chance to shut it down. In the dark theorycraft backrooms, it might seem brutal.
Perhaps an All-In (Or is it?) thread is in order. . .
Like Bear Grylls, Tang says, "Sunny outside? Better write up an All-In build!"
Viva la lings. It truly is an exciting style to play even at low levels to watch the terran struggle at their third!
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On March 18 2013 13:18 ahw wrote:
i hope everyone copies this because delaying double ups for 45 seconds and getting an early tank out on the high ground would end this.
The whole point is to force the terran to play defensively and to drone up and expand and spread creep. So if you are rushing out that early tank, mission accomplished.
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On March 18 2013 13:27 MstrJinbo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 13:18 ahw wrote:
i hope everyone copies this because delaying double ups for 45 seconds and getting an early tank out on the high ground would end this. The whole point is to force the terran to play defensively and to drone up and expand and spread creep. So if you are rushing out that early tank, mission accomplished.
i guess. but if making a single tank is going to keep me safe to 3cc while a zerg masses lings because he is copying life, that is more than ok with me
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I too have faced this on the ladder after MLG and am having problems with it. I understand now why Flash doesn't build battle hellions... there are just too many damn mutas. Do you go siege tank mmm, cuz i feel like a few vipers will rip through you. If any terrans have figured out a solution let me know
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Try just one siege tank after you make 4-6 hellions, then switch the rax to the fact and start stim and mines.
If he decides to all in, pull all scvs to main and target fire tank on banes. you'll lose some scvs and depots but end up ahead in tech and have 3cc
if he doesn't decide to commit, then you've only invested in one tank, no biggie.
edit: if you are losing to the later game comp, you are probably just being outplayed.
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Copying the best zerg in the world is good and all but I doubt more than a handful of people outside life beats 14 blue flame helions with 26 lings. His control and macro are what allows his strategies to be super effective. Something to keep in mind when you copy builds.
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To be honest zerglings have always been extremely strong units. People overlook this because its so cheap, weak, first combat unit for Zerg. They have great speed, can give you map control, super strong in numbers, and extremely expendable....
Perhaps in WoL people didn't realize how strong lings were, only Life lol. Now people are starting to see
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Great post, TangSC TY
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Personally i've been playing against bio mine with ling-centric style too recently. Pretty good... when your opponent doesnt adapt and doesnt add hellbats.
And it's honestly hard as hell to manage when the terran adds hellbats to his biomine army.
I think that zerg needs to transition very fast to ultra vipers infestors when the hellbats are on the battlefield. Muta ling bane just get wrecked.
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On March 18 2013 14:00 ahw wrote:
Try just one siege tank after you make 4-6 hellions, then switch the rax to the fact and start stim and mines.
If he decides to all in, pull all scvs to main and target fire tank on banes. you'll lose some scvs and depots but end up ahead in tech and have 3cc
if he doesn't decide to commit, then you've only invested in one tank, no biggie.
edit: if you are losing to the later game comp, you are probably just being outplayed.
This doesn't hard counter Life's style at all, it actually sets you behind as Terran because getting a tank that early is really bad. It was bad in WoL and it's even worse in HotS with the other options T has.
The thing is this style isn't anything new, Life's been using it since WoL and it just happens to deal with the current Terran meta about the same way it did in WoL but nobody looked at it because there was no need to. I remember writing about it in the GSL finals of him vs Mvp. It definitely relies on micro but it's so insanely cost inefficient/larva inefficient and micro oriented that only high level players would be able to copy it.
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On March 18 2013 17:03 Swordland wrote:
To be honest zerglings have always been extremely strong units. People overlook this because its so cheap, weak, first combat unit for Zerg. They have great speed, can give you map control, super strong in numbers, and extremely expendable....
Perhaps in WoL people didn't realize how strong lings were, only Life lol. Now people are starting to see
3/3 Adrenal lings have the highest dps in the game on a per supply basis. I don't think we've seen as many because Zergs have been really greedy up until HotS and now that there is more early-game harass it makes more sense to get a stable two bases before commiting to further expansions.
The main thing I took from Life's play was how he never took any early game damage from drops, it was only once the games pace had picked up and his attention was in other places that he was even taking damage. I guess that happens when you make mutas, spores and spread overlords, who'd have thought...
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i dnt think life discovered anything new in the metagame its just that he has better micro and multitasking than any one else. he has been playing with his aggressive style since wol, i cant believe some ppl used to call him a patch zerg.
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On March 18 2013 17:33 KawaiiRice wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 14:00 ahw wrote:
Try just one siege tank after you make 4-6 hellions, then switch the rax to the fact and start stim and mines.
If he decides to all in, pull all scvs to main and target fire tank on banes. you'll lose some scvs and depots but end up ahead in tech and have 3cc
if he doesn't decide to commit, then you've only invested in one tank, no biggie.
edit: if you are losing to the later game comp, you are probably just being outplayed. This doesn't hard counter Life's style at all, it actually sets you behind as Terran because getting a tank that early is really bad. It was bad in WoL and it's even worse in HotS with the other options T has. The thing is this style isn't anything new, Life's been using it since WoL and it just happens to deal with the current Terran meta about the same way it did in WoL but nobody looked at it because there was no need to. I remember writing about it in the GSL finals of him vs Mvp. It definitely relies on micro but it's so insanely cost inefficient/larva inefficient and micro oriented that only high level players would be able to copy it.
And even then most high level zergs fail at it. I remember lots of korean zergs in interviews asked/mentioned life style how they tried it and they just didn't understand how it works for life because they get crushed doing it which is why you don't see korean zergs or pro zergs in general copying it.
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I definitely don't believe the speedbane followup is an allin at all. For example in game 1 against Polt it got defended really well and he ended up being only slightly behind, still winning the game with mutalingbane. I call it a pressurebuild but regardless of what one calls it, it's not a sure loss or even a huge disadvantage even if it gets defended.
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On March 18 2013 16:35 Sc2zero7 wrote:
Copying the best zerg in the world is good and all but I doubt more than a handful of people outside life beats 14 blue flame helions with 26 lings. His control and macro are what allows his strategies to be super effective. Something to keep in mind when you copy builds. Is there a way to watch the VODs of MLG? I'd love to see this game...
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On March 19 2013 01:12 Lobotomist wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 16:35 Sc2zero7 wrote:
Copying the best zerg in the world is good and all but I doubt more than a handful of people outside life beats 14 blue flame helions with 26 lings. His control and macro are what allows his strategies to be super effective. Something to keep in mind when you copy builds. Is there a way to watch the VODs of MLG? I'd love to see this game...
http://tv.majorleaguegaming.com/events/23-2013-winter-championship#2424/2432/1
All the VOD's are free.
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Hey everybody! I just wanted to drop by and add Life's philosophy behind the style.
Strengths/weaknesses
+ Lings are mathematically the most efficient unit in the game...in terms of DPS per mineral spent. Unless splash damage is incorporated, they have one of the best life per mineral spent as well. So long as you can flank (or threaten to flank), you can pretty much keep the terran's bio in his base.
+ Banelings have the best efficiency per supply in the game. Maxed banelings can take out maxed thors if clumped up.
- Ling/baneling has the worst efficiency in the game in terms of larva. If you want to build drones AND ling/baneling, you're going to need lots of hatcheries. Life wasn't really expanding super fast, he was setting up macro hatcheries that would later turn into expansions.
+ Because ling/baneling/(muta) is an efficient use of supply, Life could get more drones than the average zerg before maxing.
That was pretty much his philosophy. He kept several ctrl groups of lings active on the map to deny scouting and trying to get a flank on the hellions. His expanding (macro hatches) were extremely aggressive, which is just a winning combo. I would have liked to see more drops/burrow to keep the terran penned up in his base, but I can't argue with what life did.
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IMO I'm sad that besides widow mines, hardly any hots units made an appearance in the finals/semis. (save for MC). You could chalk it up to the short time frame the expac has been out, and that most players are more comfortable using their wol builds I guess. I honestly feel like they should've kept warhounds in the game, and maybe gave them the ability to lay mines, instead of the mine being its own odd unit. obvious balance aside it would be much more fun to watch than the current bio +mine style we are seeing.
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It seems like a lot of Life's success can be attributed to the Terrans' neglect of tanks in exchange for the less-predictable mines. Were there any specific games where Life had to use his style against a Terran that was using both widow mines and tanks? What are the tradeoffs for Terran to use both Tanks and Widow Mines? How did Life handle himself in those games?
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Trying to emulate Life's ling centric ling play is something I hope everyone starts doing.. Not because I think it would be effective, but rather because nobody else is going to be able to kill 8 blue flame hellions with 24 lings.. no matter how hard you try. Unless you have 400+ APM you are going to quickly learn that Life's ability to control lings and your ability to control lings are two very different things.
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On March 19 2013 02:56 bri9and wrote:
Trying to emulate Life's ling centric ling play is something I hope everyone starts doing.. Not because I think it would be effective, but rather because nobody else is going to be able to kill 8 blue flame hellions with 24 lings.. no matter how hard you try. Unless you have 400+ APM you are going to quickly learn that Life's ability to control lings and your ability to control lings are two very different things.
Its not that hard. Keep 2 control groups of lings, run within the vision of a tower you know they are holding, lead them into a trap, flank.
With Larva being the limiting component, its difficult to do this while nailing the injects.
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On March 19 2013 01:42 nottapro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 01:12 Lobotomist wrote:On March 18 2013 16:35 Sc2zero7 wrote:
Copying the best zerg in the world is good and all but I doubt more than a handful of people outside life beats 14 blue flame helions with 26 lings. His control and macro are what allows his strategies to be super effective. Something to keep in mind when you copy builds. Is there a way to watch the VODs of MLG? I'd love to see this game... http://tv.majorleaguegaming.com/events/23-2013-winter-championship#2424/2432/1All the VOD's are free.
-Drool- tyvm!
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I don't intend to go off-topic here but I am curious as to why Flash never went for Hellbats? 30+ damage to light units, they get healed and have even more health then a marauder. Any second thoughts? I know I may speak out of my terms since I don't know how they really work, just a hunch telling me though that they would've been good to his arsenal.
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The 10 Pool was metagaming.
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On March 19 2013 03:17 RMmanlots wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 02:56 bri9and wrote:
Trying to emulate Life's ling centric ling play is something I hope everyone starts doing.. Not because I think it would be effective, but rather because nobody else is going to be able to kill 8 blue flame hellions with 24 lings.. no matter how hard you try. Unless you have 400+ APM you are going to quickly learn that Life's ability to control lings and your ability to control lings are two very different things. Its not that hard. Keep 2 control groups of lings, run within the vision of a tower you know they are holding, lead them into a trap, flank. With Larva being the limiting component, its difficult to do this while nailing the injects.
It was more than that, he would go in with lings between hellion volleys and then let his queens take the damage. pretty sick micro.
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Getting 8 Lings off of a 10pool is not a huge commitment?? That would be 4 drones mining about 220 minerals a minute and a delayed hatch.
The reason this is paying off is probably only because T can land his CC only at 6 minutes.
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On March 18 2013 10:16 TangSC wrote:Spoiler Warning - You may want to watch the series before reading the post / comments.Hey guys, Yesterday I was scratching my head about how Zergs should play against Terran in HotS, but after watching Life's sick run through The MLG Winter Championship, I don't think anyone can argue the effectiveness of a Zergling-centric style. I've written down some (incomplete) observations, and was hoping others could contribute their notes as well. Openings+ Show Spoiler +10Pool Opening:10 Pool Double extractor trick to 12/10 12 Overlord 12-15 Lings 15 Queen 17 Ling 18 Drones 20 Hatch I'm really impressed with how well this opening went for Life. Most early pools rely on killing workers, but Life's version seems economic enough to transition well even without doing much damage. He only makes 8 Zerglings (not a huge commitment), and goes into an expansion and gas afterwards. He generally gets 100 gas for Speed, and periodically builds some Lings to shut down pressure. Sacrificing some economy for Zerglings seems to be a recurring theme in Life's games. Hatch-First Opening15 Hatch 17 Gas 16 Pool 17 Overlord Drones out of gas after 100 (Though sometimes he left 1 in gas) I didn't actually see Life play against Reapers with this opening, but with the early speed he'd probably hold with good micro. If you're interested in the next-steps of this build, check out Lowko's Video on Life. For the most part, Life played a +1/+1 Zergling-centric style of mid-game with Banelings and a delayed Lair for Mutalisks/Speed, but had a few variations:
Aggressive +1/+1 Speed-Baneling
This was just a sick timing that Life used to great effect in the finals. He went for very fast third and droned hard, but as usual still built enough Lings to get decent map control and vision. The vision was key for him, because he was able to hide a bunch of Lings mid-field to execute a massive +1/+1 Speedling/Baneling timings. The timing hit around 11 Minutes with about 30+ Banelings and who knows how many Zerglings. Perhaps an All-In (Or is it?) thread is in order. . .
Delayed-Lair Ling/Baneling/Mutalisk
By delaying Lair to 9:30/10:00, Life was able to keep a competitive economy while executing his usual +1/+1 Zergling-Centric mid-game. When Lair finished, he moved into Baneling Speed, 2/2, and Spire to complete a balanced mid-game. It seems inevitable that Widow Mines get some good connections with Zerg armies, but Life's army-splitting was on the ball. Once Overseers were on the field it was easier for Life to snipe those pesky mines. He used multi-pronged aggression to secure small leads, shut down drops with relative ease, and control the middle of the map. I wish I could multitask like that! In the later stages, Life added Ultralisks to tank/dps and Vipers to snag those Medivacs. So sick!
7:00 Lair / Mutalisk
After a few aggressive Baneling timings, Life switched it up and went for a 7:00 Lair, allowing him to start some unexpected Mutalisk harass as early as 11minutes.
I hope you all enjoyed the series as much as I did!
i hate to be a kill bill here, but his "ling centric style" is just a standard muta ling baneling style that was beyond standard in WoL... its nothing new. its as old as the game itself
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On March 19 2013 10:42 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 10:16 TangSC wrote:Spoiler Warning - You may want to watch the series before reading the post / comments.Hey guys, Yesterday I was scratching my head about how Zergs should play against Terran in HotS, but after watching Life's sick run through The MLG Winter Championship, I don't think anyone can argue the effectiveness of a Zergling-centric style. I've written down some (incomplete) observations, and was hoping others could contribute their notes as well. Openings+ Show Spoiler +10Pool Opening:10 Pool Double extractor trick to 12/10 12 Overlord 12-15 Lings 15 Queen 17 Ling 18 Drones 20 Hatch I'm really impressed with how well this opening went for Life. Most early pools rely on killing workers, but Life's version seems economic enough to transition well even without doing much damage. He only makes 8 Zerglings (not a huge commitment), and goes into an expansion and gas afterwards. He generally gets 100 gas for Speed, and periodically builds some Lings to shut down pressure. Sacrificing some economy for Zerglings seems to be a recurring theme in Life's games. Hatch-First Opening15 Hatch 17 Gas 16 Pool 17 Overlord Drones out of gas after 100 (Though sometimes he left 1 in gas) I didn't actually see Life play against Reapers with this opening, but with the early speed he'd probably hold with good micro. If you're interested in the next-steps of this build, check out Lowko's Video on Life. For the most part, Life played a +1/+1 Zergling-centric style of mid-game with Banelings and a delayed Lair for Mutalisks/Speed, but had a few variations:
Aggressive +1/+1 Speed-Baneling
This was just a sick timing that Life used to great effect in the finals. He went for very fast third and droned hard, but as usual still built enough Lings to get decent map control and vision. The vision was key for him, because he was able to hide a bunch of Lings mid-field to execute a massive +1/+1 Speedling/Baneling timings. The timing hit around 11 Minutes with about 30+ Banelings and who knows how many Zerglings. Perhaps an All-In (Or is it?) thread is in order. . .
Delayed-Lair Ling/Baneling/Mutalisk
By delaying Lair to 9:30/10:00, Life was able to keep a competitive economy while executing his usual +1/+1 Zergling-Centric mid-game. When Lair finished, he moved into Baneling Speed, 2/2, and Spire to complete a balanced mid-game. It seems inevitable that Widow Mines get some good connections with Zerg armies, but Life's army-splitting was on the ball. Once Overseers were on the field it was easier for Life to snipe those pesky mines. He used multi-pronged aggression to secure small leads, shut down drops with relative ease, and control the middle of the map. I wish I could multitask like that! In the later stages, Life added Ultralisks to tank/dps and Vipers to snag those Medivacs. So sick!
7:00 Lair / Mutalisk
After a few aggressive Baneling timings, Life switched it up and went for a 7:00 Lair, allowing him to start some unexpected Mutalisk harass as early as 11minutes.
I hope you all enjoyed the series as much as I did! i hate to be a kill bill here, but his "ling centric style" is just a standard muta ling baneling style that was beyond standard in WoL... its nothing new. its as old as the game itself
Nobody plays the early game like Life does, calling it "beyond standard" is incredibly wrong.
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I recommend only using this strategy on maps with open access to thirds, ie. Cloud Kingdom, DayBreak, and Neo Planet S. It should not of worked out on Akilon Flats but because Flash moved out his entire army thats why life was successful. If you do this strategy on Whirlwind and Bel'shir Vestige with small chokes leading into third then you may be screwed, and also because the army normally camps out right outside of the natural leading into the third. Also the third is relatively far away on these maps which makes this more difficult.
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The most annoying part is, this can be done in WoL as well and there is very little Terran can do about it. Muta Ling Bling is so much more mobile than marine tank. I've seen the same the same thing in GSL, where Bomber was rolled by Zergs who went very heavy Ling/Bling Muta and just decimated his army. When you combine this with an agressive expansion behind it, and excellent creep spread there is so little you can do to counter the Zerg. This does require extremely good macro though, the injects and map control has to be spot on for this to work, otherwise it'll just straight up die to any decent Terran who uses walls and Tanks to ward off early pushes, as well as punish greedy play when he sees it.
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On March 19 2013 11:02 KawaiiRice wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 10:42 Ballistixz wrote:On March 18 2013 10:16 TangSC wrote:Spoiler Warning - You may want to watch the series before reading the post / comments.Hey guys, Yesterday I was scratching my head about how Zergs should play against Terran in HotS, but after watching Life's sick run through The MLG Winter Championship, I don't think anyone can argue the effectiveness of a Zergling-centric style. I've written down some (incomplete) observations, and was hoping others could contribute their notes as well. Openings+ Show Spoiler +10Pool Opening:10 Pool Double extractor trick to 12/10 12 Overlord 12-15 Lings 15 Queen 17 Ling 18 Drones 20 Hatch I'm really impressed with how well this opening went for Life. Most early pools rely on killing workers, but Life's version seems economic enough to transition well even without doing much damage. He only makes 8 Zerglings (not a huge commitment), and goes into an expansion and gas afterwards. He generally gets 100 gas for Speed, and periodically builds some Lings to shut down pressure. Sacrificing some economy for Zerglings seems to be a recurring theme in Life's games. Hatch-First Opening15 Hatch 17 Gas 16 Pool 17 Overlord Drones out of gas after 100 (Though sometimes he left 1 in gas) I didn't actually see Life play against Reapers with this opening, but with the early speed he'd probably hold with good micro. If you're interested in the next-steps of this build, check out Lowko's Video on Life. For the most part, Life played a +1/+1 Zergling-centric style of mid-game with Banelings and a delayed Lair for Mutalisks/Speed, but had a few variations:
Aggressive +1/+1 Speed-Baneling
This was just a sick timing that Life used to great effect in the finals. He went for very fast third and droned hard, but as usual still built enough Lings to get decent map control and vision. The vision was key for him, because he was able to hide a bunch of Lings mid-field to execute a massive +1/+1 Speedling/Baneling timings. The timing hit around 11 Minutes with about 30+ Banelings and who knows how many Zerglings. Perhaps an All-In (Or is it?) thread is in order. . .
Delayed-Lair Ling/Baneling/Mutalisk
By delaying Lair to 9:30/10:00, Life was able to keep a competitive economy while executing his usual +1/+1 Zergling-Centric mid-game. When Lair finished, he moved into Baneling Speed, 2/2, and Spire to complete a balanced mid-game. It seems inevitable that Widow Mines get some good connections with Zerg armies, but Life's army-splitting was on the ball. Once Overseers were on the field it was easier for Life to snipe those pesky mines. He used multi-pronged aggression to secure small leads, shut down drops with relative ease, and control the middle of the map. I wish I could multitask like that! In the later stages, Life added Ultralisks to tank/dps and Vipers to snag those Medivacs. So sick!
7:00 Lair / Mutalisk
After a few aggressive Baneling timings, Life switched it up and went for a 7:00 Lair, allowing him to start some unexpected Mutalisk harass as early as 11minutes.
I hope you all enjoyed the series as much as I did! i hate to be a kill bill here, but his "ling centric style" is just a standard muta ling baneling style that was beyond standard in WoL... its nothing new. its as old as the game itself Nobody plays the early game like Life does, calling it "beyond standard" is incredibly wrong.
What do you mean ? I feel like this build is incredibly standard ? Just a slight variant of the infestors style.
Instead of going stephano's you just build mutas. But other than that, it's pretty much the same style we've been using for years.
At least that's what I was doing.
Edit : Unless you're talking about the Pool first build. Then yeah.
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On March 19 2013 12:20 RaiZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 11:02 KawaiiRice wrote:On March 19 2013 10:42 Ballistixz wrote:On March 18 2013 10:16 TangSC wrote:Spoiler Warning - You may want to watch the series before reading the post / comments.Hey guys, Yesterday I was scratching my head about how Zergs should play against Terran in HotS, but after watching Life's sick run through The MLG Winter Championship, I don't think anyone can argue the effectiveness of a Zergling-centric style. I've written down some (incomplete) observations, and was hoping others could contribute their notes as well. Openings+ Show Spoiler +10Pool Opening:10 Pool Double extractor trick to 12/10 12 Overlord 12-15 Lings 15 Queen 17 Ling 18 Drones 20 Hatch I'm really impressed with how well this opening went for Life. Most early pools rely on killing workers, but Life's version seems economic enough to transition well even without doing much damage. He only makes 8 Zerglings (not a huge commitment), and goes into an expansion and gas afterwards. He generally gets 100 gas for Speed, and periodically builds some Lings to shut down pressure. Sacrificing some economy for Zerglings seems to be a recurring theme in Life's games. Hatch-First Opening15 Hatch 17 Gas 16 Pool 17 Overlord Drones out of gas after 100 (Though sometimes he left 1 in gas) I didn't actually see Life play against Reapers with this opening, but with the early speed he'd probably hold with good micro. If you're interested in the next-steps of this build, check out Lowko's Video on Life. For the most part, Life played a +1/+1 Zergling-centric style of mid-game with Banelings and a delayed Lair for Mutalisks/Speed, but had a few variations:
Aggressive +1/+1 Speed-Baneling
This was just a sick timing that Life used to great effect in the finals. He went for very fast third and droned hard, but as usual still built enough Lings to get decent map control and vision. The vision was key for him, because he was able to hide a bunch of Lings mid-field to execute a massive +1/+1 Speedling/Baneling timings. The timing hit around 11 Minutes with about 30+ Banelings and who knows how many Zerglings. Perhaps an All-In (Or is it?) thread is in order. . .
Delayed-Lair Ling/Baneling/Mutalisk
By delaying Lair to 9:30/10:00, Life was able to keep a competitive economy while executing his usual +1/+1 Zergling-Centric mid-game. When Lair finished, he moved into Baneling Speed, 2/2, and Spire to complete a balanced mid-game. It seems inevitable that Widow Mines get some good connections with Zerg armies, but Life's army-splitting was on the ball. Once Overseers were on the field it was easier for Life to snipe those pesky mines. He used multi-pronged aggression to secure small leads, shut down drops with relative ease, and control the middle of the map. I wish I could multitask like that! In the later stages, Life added Ultralisks to tank/dps and Vipers to snag those Medivacs. So sick!
7:00 Lair / Mutalisk
After a few aggressive Baneling timings, Life switched it up and went for a 7:00 Lair, allowing him to start some unexpected Mutalisk harass as early as 11minutes.
I hope you all enjoyed the series as much as I did! i hate to be a kill bill here, but his "ling centric style" is just a standard muta ling baneling style that was beyond standard in WoL... its nothing new. its as old as the game itself Nobody plays the early game like Life does, calling it "beyond standard" is incredibly wrong. What do you mean ? I feel like this build is incredibly standard ? Just a slight variant of the infestors style. Instead of going stephano's you just build mutas. But other than that, it's pretty much the same style we've been using for years. At least that's what I was doing. Edit : Unless you're talking about the Pool first build. Then yeah.
A build is not a style. Making lings and going allin is also not equivalent to Life's style.
1. The way in which something is said, done, expressed, or performed: a style of speech and writing.
Nobody uses lings in the early game as well and as intelligently as Life has with such consistency. To say that demonstrates a lack of understanding of what Life is doing or what style means.
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On March 19 2013 12:24 KawaiiRice wrote:
A build is not a style. Making lings and going allin is also not equivalent to Life's style.
Where did you see going lings banes mutas was an allin ? I'm not sure why you've even mentionning it ? Unless I missed something then, I apologize.
Show nested quote +1. The way in which something is said, done, expressed, or performed: a style of speech and writing. Nobody uses lings in the early game as well and as intelligently as Life has with such consistency. To say that demonstrates a lack of understanding of what Life is doing or what style means.
I agree with that, Life sure does use them very well, but he's far from being alone. But that's probably because we're too used to see the lazy EU / US patchzergs. :/
Gonna be fun though, when all the zerg will get demoted or whatever because they can't win anymore with a 6 queens centered build.
Can't wait to see for more tournaments !
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On March 19 2013 11:02 KawaiiRice wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 10:42 Ballistixz wrote:On March 18 2013 10:16 TangSC wrote:Spoiler Warning - You may want to watch the series before reading the post / comments.Hey guys, Yesterday I was scratching my head about how Zergs should play against Terran in HotS, but after watching Life's sick run through The MLG Winter Championship, I don't think anyone can argue the effectiveness of a Zergling-centric style. I've written down some (incomplete) observations, and was hoping others could contribute their notes as well. Openings+ Show Spoiler +10Pool Opening:10 Pool Double extractor trick to 12/10 12 Overlord 12-15 Lings 15 Queen 17 Ling 18 Drones 20 Hatch I'm really impressed with how well this opening went for Life. Most early pools rely on killing workers, but Life's version seems economic enough to transition well even without doing much damage. He only makes 8 Zerglings (not a huge commitment), and goes into an expansion and gas afterwards. He generally gets 100 gas for Speed, and periodically builds some Lings to shut down pressure. Sacrificing some economy for Zerglings seems to be a recurring theme in Life's games. Hatch-First Opening15 Hatch 17 Gas 16 Pool 17 Overlord Drones out of gas after 100 (Though sometimes he left 1 in gas) I didn't actually see Life play against Reapers with this opening, but with the early speed he'd probably hold with good micro. If you're interested in the next-steps of this build, check out Lowko's Video on Life. For the most part, Life played a +1/+1 Zergling-centric style of mid-game with Banelings and a delayed Lair for Mutalisks/Speed, but had a few variations:
Aggressive +1/+1 Speed-Baneling
This was just a sick timing that Life used to great effect in the finals. He went for very fast third and droned hard, but as usual still built enough Lings to get decent map control and vision. The vision was key for him, because he was able to hide a bunch of Lings mid-field to execute a massive +1/+1 Speedling/Baneling timings. The timing hit around 11 Minutes with about 30+ Banelings and who knows how many Zerglings. Perhaps an All-In (Or is it?) thread is in order. . .
Delayed-Lair Ling/Baneling/Mutalisk
By delaying Lair to 9:30/10:00, Life was able to keep a competitive economy while executing his usual +1/+1 Zergling-Centric mid-game. When Lair finished, he moved into Baneling Speed, 2/2, and Spire to complete a balanced mid-game. It seems inevitable that Widow Mines get some good connections with Zerg armies, but Life's army-splitting was on the ball. Once Overseers were on the field it was easier for Life to snipe those pesky mines. He used multi-pronged aggression to secure small leads, shut down drops with relative ease, and control the middle of the map. I wish I could multitask like that! In the later stages, Life added Ultralisks to tank/dps and Vipers to snag those Medivacs. So sick!
7:00 Lair / Mutalisk
After a few aggressive Baneling timings, Life switched it up and went for a 7:00 Lair, allowing him to start some unexpected Mutalisk harass as early as 11minutes.
I hope you all enjoyed the series as much as I did! i hate to be a kill bill here, but his "ling centric style" is just a standard muta ling baneling style that was beyond standard in WoL... its nothing new. its as old as the game itself Nobody plays the early game like Life does, calling it "beyond standard" is incredibly wrong.
sorry if i dont beleive you, but i cant see how what life is doing any different from the past other than being a bit more aggressive early on.
i mean at the end of the day its still muta ling bane...
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On March 19 2013 12:46 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 11:02 KawaiiRice wrote:On March 19 2013 10:42 Ballistixz wrote:On March 18 2013 10:16 TangSC wrote:Spoiler Warning - You may want to watch the series before reading the post / comments.Hey guys, Yesterday I was scratching my head about how Zergs should play against Terran in HotS, but after watching Life's sick run through The MLG Winter Championship, I don't think anyone can argue the effectiveness of a Zergling-centric style. I've written down some (incomplete) observations, and was hoping others could contribute their notes as well. Openings+ Show Spoiler +10Pool Opening:10 Pool Double extractor trick to 12/10 12 Overlord 12-15 Lings 15 Queen 17 Ling 18 Drones 20 Hatch I'm really impressed with how well this opening went for Life. Most early pools rely on killing workers, but Life's version seems economic enough to transition well even without doing much damage. He only makes 8 Zerglings (not a huge commitment), and goes into an expansion and gas afterwards. He generally gets 100 gas for Speed, and periodically builds some Lings to shut down pressure. Sacrificing some economy for Zerglings seems to be a recurring theme in Life's games. Hatch-First Opening15 Hatch 17 Gas 16 Pool 17 Overlord Drones out of gas after 100 (Though sometimes he left 1 in gas) I didn't actually see Life play against Reapers with this opening, but with the early speed he'd probably hold with good micro. If you're interested in the next-steps of this build, check out Lowko's Video on Life. For the most part, Life played a +1/+1 Zergling-centric style of mid-game with Banelings and a delayed Lair for Mutalisks/Speed, but had a few variations:
Aggressive +1/+1 Speed-Baneling
This was just a sick timing that Life used to great effect in the finals. He went for very fast third and droned hard, but as usual still built enough Lings to get decent map control and vision. The vision was key for him, because he was able to hide a bunch of Lings mid-field to execute a massive +1/+1 Speedling/Baneling timings. The timing hit around 11 Minutes with about 30+ Banelings and who knows how many Zerglings. Perhaps an All-In (Or is it?) thread is in order. . .
Delayed-Lair Ling/Baneling/Mutalisk
By delaying Lair to 9:30/10:00, Life was able to keep a competitive economy while executing his usual +1/+1 Zergling-Centric mid-game. When Lair finished, he moved into Baneling Speed, 2/2, and Spire to complete a balanced mid-game. It seems inevitable that Widow Mines get some good connections with Zerg armies, but Life's army-splitting was on the ball. Once Overseers were on the field it was easier for Life to snipe those pesky mines. He used multi-pronged aggression to secure small leads, shut down drops with relative ease, and control the middle of the map. I wish I could multitask like that! In the later stages, Life added Ultralisks to tank/dps and Vipers to snag those Medivacs. So sick!
7:00 Lair / Mutalisk
After a few aggressive Baneling timings, Life switched it up and went for a 7:00 Lair, allowing him to start some unexpected Mutalisk harass as early as 11minutes.
I hope you all enjoyed the series as much as I did! i hate to be a kill bill here, but his "ling centric style" is just a standard muta ling baneling style that was beyond standard in WoL... its nothing new. its as old as the game itself Nobody plays the early game like Life does, calling it "beyond standard" is incredibly wrong. sorry if i dont beleive you, but i cant see how what life is doing any different from the past other than being a bit more aggressive early on. i mean at the end of the day its still muta ling bane...
Yeah it might be hard for you to understand but you should see korean interviews back when they used to ask other zergs why they didn't do what life did.
They all said the same thing "I don't know how it works for life his style is so hard to do and I just lost with it so I stopped doing it". No zerg in the world can emulate life right now in how he does his ling control. His style really is different then other zergs and to how he uses it.
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Enjoying using this in PvX in Gold league. Gets destroyed by very early Speedling aggression though. :\
Still very solid against Protoss, though! As long as they don't switch to air, but even then you can easily go into Hydralisks or some air tech with the Spire.
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On March 18 2013 13:18 ahw wrote:
i hope everyone copies this because delaying double ups for 45 seconds and getting an early tank out on the high ground would end this.
I'm playing like this since a few months. I go 1rax 1 marine CC depot CC double gas marine marine into fact into tank. Since you don't need siegemode, you can put that 100-100 into upgrades. The downside of this build is that it gives zergs a ton of freedom. The upside is that you don't die to allins (you crush them) and that you can do a good rine tank timing around 12:30.
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On March 19 2013 12:53 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 12:46 Ballistixz wrote:On March 19 2013 11:02 KawaiiRice wrote:On March 19 2013 10:42 Ballistixz wrote:On March 18 2013 10:16 TangSC wrote:Spoiler Warning - You may want to watch the series before reading the post / comments.Hey guys, Yesterday I was scratching my head about how Zergs should play against Terran in HotS, but after watching Life's sick run through The MLG Winter Championship, I don't think anyone can argue the effectiveness of a Zergling-centric style. I've written down some (incomplete) observations, and was hoping others could contribute their notes as well. Openings+ Show Spoiler +10Pool Opening:10 Pool Double extractor trick to 12/10 12 Overlord 12-15 Lings 15 Queen 17 Ling 18 Drones 20 Hatch I'm really impressed with how well this opening went for Life. Most early pools rely on killing workers, but Life's version seems economic enough to transition well even without doing much damage. He only makes 8 Zerglings (not a huge commitment), and goes into an expansion and gas afterwards. He generally gets 100 gas for Speed, and periodically builds some Lings to shut down pressure. Sacrificing some economy for Zerglings seems to be a recurring theme in Life's games. Hatch-First Opening15 Hatch 17 Gas 16 Pool 17 Overlord Drones out of gas after 100 (Though sometimes he left 1 in gas) I didn't actually see Life play against Reapers with this opening, but with the early speed he'd probably hold with good micro. If you're interested in the next-steps of this build, check out Lowko's Video on Life. For the most part, Life played a +1/+1 Zergling-centric style of mid-game with Banelings and a delayed Lair for Mutalisks/Speed, but had a few variations:
Aggressive +1/+1 Speed-Baneling
This was just a sick timing that Life used to great effect in the finals. He went for very fast third and droned hard, but as usual still built enough Lings to get decent map control and vision. The vision was key for him, because he was able to hide a bunch of Lings mid-field to execute a massive +1/+1 Speedling/Baneling timings. The timing hit around 11 Minutes with about 30+ Banelings and who knows how many Zerglings. Perhaps an All-In (Or is it?) thread is in order. . .
Delayed-Lair Ling/Baneling/Mutalisk
By delaying Lair to 9:30/10:00, Life was able to keep a competitive economy while executing his usual +1/+1 Zergling-Centric mid-game. When Lair finished, he moved into Baneling Speed, 2/2, and Spire to complete a balanced mid-game. It seems inevitable that Widow Mines get some good connections with Zerg armies, but Life's army-splitting was on the ball. Once Overseers were on the field it was easier for Life to snipe those pesky mines. He used multi-pronged aggression to secure small leads, shut down drops with relative ease, and control the middle of the map. I wish I could multitask like that! In the later stages, Life added Ultralisks to tank/dps and Vipers to snag those Medivacs. So sick!
7:00 Lair / Mutalisk
After a few aggressive Baneling timings, Life switched it up and went for a 7:00 Lair, allowing him to start some unexpected Mutalisk harass as early as 11minutes.
I hope you all enjoyed the series as much as I did! i hate to be a kill bill here, but his "ling centric style" is just a standard muta ling baneling style that was beyond standard in WoL... its nothing new. its as old as the game itself Nobody plays the early game like Life does, calling it "beyond standard" is incredibly wrong. sorry if i dont beleive you, but i cant see how what life is doing any different from the past other than being a bit more aggressive early on. i mean at the end of the day its still muta ling bane... Yeah it might be hard for you to understand but you should see korean interviews back when they used to ask other zergs why they didn't do what life did. They all said the same thing "I don't know how it works for life his style is so hard to do and I just lost with it so I stopped doing it". No zerg in the world can emulate life right now in how he does his ling control. His style really is different then other zergs and to how he uses it.
Theres actually been atleast one player who have used Life's style in WoL, in the early 2012. Altho his style was inferior because of his inferior skill to life, the style of ROOTDestiny was an exact dublicate of what Life did at MLG.
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On March 19 2013 20:43 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 13:18 ahw wrote:
i hope everyone copies this because delaying double ups for 45 seconds and getting an early tank out on the high ground would end this. I'm playing like this since a few months. I go 1rax 1 marine CC depot CC double gas marine marine into fact into tank. Since you don't need siegemode, you can put that 100-100 into upgrades. The downside of this build is that it gives zergs a ton of freedom. The upside is that you don't die to allins (you crush them) and that you can do a good rine tank timing around 12:30.
What about the 2/2/1 muta ling baneling all in from WoL? Pro players like Mvp, Bomber and MKP could barely hold this all in, even with 2/2 on marines. I think that delaying your upgrades for that long, will be your downfall midgame.
EDIT: Even zerg players didn't opt for this strat, you are esentially granting zerg players a free pass to droning as hard as they want. Think about it like this: if you delay 1/1 45 sec, there is gonna be a 45 sec window, where the zergs ling baneling ultralisk army is at 3/3, while your own bio based army, is still at 2/2.
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I'm a Diamond level zerg and I've started messing with this quite a bit on the ladder. Usually depending on how much early harass they go for, I go for a big bust with 1-1 and bane speed. My finding are the best way to beat widow mins is to out-macro them. They may get some good hits in but I'm having a lot of luck just massing up on ling-bane while gradually teching to ultra attacking as much as possible which keeps them too busy to drop as they are worried about defending as well as keep them pinned down to 2-3 bases while I get up to 4+. While Life used them, I don't think mutas are a crucial role is in this build until you get masters+ due to their main role being to shut down drops, but with speed boost medivacs its just hard to deal with in time. Before masters+ level, macro is the key. Mutas take a lot of micro when I'd rather use any extra APM I have macroing and attacking. These are just my thoughts, I'd be happy to hear what you guys think.
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On March 19 2013 08:30 Gene(S)is wrote:
I don't intend to go off-topic here but I am curious as to why Flash never went for Hellbats? 30+ damage to light units, they get healed and have even more health then a marauder. Any second thoughts? I know I may speak out of my terms since I don't know how they really work, just a hunch telling me though that they would've been good to his arsenal.
I'd argue that banelings shut down hellbats pretty hard, as people tend to forget that hellbats are light units still.
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On March 19 2013 22:29 Ancamdrew wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 08:30 Gene(S)is wrote:
I don't intend to go off-topic here but I am curious as to why Flash never went for Hellbats? 30+ damage to light units, they get healed and have even more health then a marauder. Any second thoughts? I know I may speak out of my terms since I don't know how they really work, just a hunch telling me though that they would've been good to his arsenal. I'd argue that banelings shut down hellbats pretty hard, as people tend to forget that hellbats are light units still.
correct. And Flash would need to research the transformation upgrade because making hellbats off the factory without transformation is just stupid unless you want to do a timing attack. Hellbats are slow while hellions can put pressure and avoid surrounds.
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United States15275 Posts
On March 19 2013 21:50 cloneThorN wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 12:53 blade55555 wrote:On March 19 2013 12:46 Ballistixz wrote:On March 19 2013 11:02 KawaiiRice wrote:On March 19 2013 10:42 Ballistixz wrote:On March 18 2013 10:16 TangSC wrote:Spoiler Warning - You may want to watch the series before reading the post / comments.Hey guys, Yesterday I was scratching my head about how Zergs should play against Terran in HotS, but after watching Life's sick run through The MLG Winter Championship, I don't think anyone can argue the effectiveness of a Zergling-centric style. I've written down some (incomplete) observations, and was hoping others could contribute their notes as well. Openings+ Show Spoiler +10Pool Opening:10 Pool Double extractor trick to 12/10 12 Overlord 12-15 Lings 15 Queen 17 Ling 18 Drones 20 Hatch I'm really impressed with how well this opening went for Life. Most early pools rely on killing workers, but Life's version seems economic enough to transition well even without doing much damage. He only makes 8 Zerglings (not a huge commitment), and goes into an expansion and gas afterwards. He generally gets 100 gas for Speed, and periodically builds some Lings to shut down pressure. Sacrificing some economy for Zerglings seems to be a recurring theme in Life's games. Hatch-First Opening15 Hatch 17 Gas 16 Pool 17 Overlord Drones out of gas after 100 (Though sometimes he left 1 in gas) I didn't actually see Life play against Reapers with this opening, but with the early speed he'd probably hold with good micro. If you're interested in the next-steps of this build, check out Lowko's Video on Life. For the most part, Life played a +1/+1 Zergling-centric style of mid-game with Banelings and a delayed Lair for Mutalisks/Speed, but had a few variations:
Aggressive +1/+1 Speed-Baneling
This was just a sick timing that Life used to great effect in the finals. He went for very fast third and droned hard, but as usual still built enough Lings to get decent map control and vision. The vision was key for him, because he was able to hide a bunch of Lings mid-field to execute a massive +1/+1 Speedling/Baneling timings. The timing hit around 11 Minutes with about 30+ Banelings and who knows how many Zerglings. Perhaps an All-In (Or is it?) thread is in order. . .
Delayed-Lair Ling/Baneling/Mutalisk
By delaying Lair to 9:30/10:00, Life was able to keep a competitive economy while executing his usual +1/+1 Zergling-Centric mid-game. When Lair finished, he moved into Baneling Speed, 2/2, and Spire to complete a balanced mid-game. It seems inevitable that Widow Mines get some good connections with Zerg armies, but Life's army-splitting was on the ball. Once Overseers were on the field it was easier for Life to snipe those pesky mines. He used multi-pronged aggression to secure small leads, shut down drops with relative ease, and control the middle of the map. I wish I could multitask like that! In the later stages, Life added Ultralisks to tank/dps and Vipers to snag those Medivacs. So sick!
7:00 Lair / Mutalisk
After a few aggressive Baneling timings, Life switched it up and went for a 7:00 Lair, allowing him to start some unexpected Mutalisk harass as early as 11minutes.
I hope you all enjoyed the series as much as I did! i hate to be a kill bill here, but his "ling centric style" is just a standard muta ling baneling style that was beyond standard in WoL... its nothing new. its as old as the game itself Nobody plays the early game like Life does, calling it "beyond standard" is incredibly wrong. sorry if i dont beleive you, but i cant see how what life is doing any different from the past other than being a bit more aggressive early on. i mean at the end of the day its still muta ling bane... Yeah it might be hard for you to understand but you should see korean interviews back when they used to ask other zergs why they didn't do what life did. They all said the same thing "I don't know how it works for life his style is so hard to do and I just lost with it so I stopped doing it". No zerg in the world can emulate life right now in how he does his ling control. His style really is different then other zergs and to how he uses it. Theres actually been atleast one player who have used Life's style in WoL, in the early 2012. Altho his style was inferior because of his inferior skill to life, the style of ROOTDestiny was an exact dublicate of what Life did at MLG.
Destiny relied heavily on fast massed infestors to win and used his mineral dump for zerglings. Destiny also did not exploit zerglings for counter-attacks, map control, and multi-pronged aggression like Life because his micro and multitasking were not up to the task. Their styles were completely different. DRG's style was closer but DRG relied more on overwhelming mechanics and safe builds to snuff out Terran mid-game aggression.
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On March 20 2013 07:31 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 21:50 cloneThorN wrote:On March 19 2013 12:53 blade55555 wrote:On March 19 2013 12:46 Ballistixz wrote:On March 19 2013 11:02 KawaiiRice wrote:On March 19 2013 10:42 Ballistixz wrote:On March 18 2013 10:16 TangSC wrote:Spoiler Warning - You may want to watch the series before reading the post / comments.Hey guys, Yesterday I was scratching my head about how Zergs should play against Terran in HotS, but after watching Life's sick run through The MLG Winter Championship, I don't think anyone can argue the effectiveness of a Zergling-centric style. I've written down some (incomplete) observations, and was hoping others could contribute their notes as well. Openings+ Show Spoiler +10Pool Opening:10 Pool Double extractor trick to 12/10 12 Overlord 12-15 Lings 15 Queen 17 Ling 18 Drones 20 Hatch I'm really impressed with how well this opening went for Life. Most early pools rely on killing workers, but Life's version seems economic enough to transition well even without doing much damage. He only makes 8 Zerglings (not a huge commitment), and goes into an expansion and gas afterwards. He generally gets 100 gas for Speed, and periodically builds some Lings to shut down pressure. Sacrificing some economy for Zerglings seems to be a recurring theme in Life's games. Hatch-First Opening15 Hatch 17 Gas 16 Pool 17 Overlord Drones out of gas after 100 (Though sometimes he left 1 in gas) I didn't actually see Life play against Reapers with this opening, but with the early speed he'd probably hold with good micro. If you're interested in the next-steps of this build, check out Lowko's Video on Life. For the most part, Life played a +1/+1 Zergling-centric style of mid-game with Banelings and a delayed Lair for Mutalisks/Speed, but had a few variations:
Aggressive +1/+1 Speed-Baneling
This was just a sick timing that Life used to great effect in the finals. He went for very fast third and droned hard, but as usual still built enough Lings to get decent map control and vision. The vision was key for him, because he was able to hide a bunch of Lings mid-field to execute a massive +1/+1 Speedling/Baneling timings. The timing hit around 11 Minutes with about 30+ Banelings and who knows how many Zerglings. Perhaps an All-In (Or is it?) thread is in order. . .
Delayed-Lair Ling/Baneling/Mutalisk
By delaying Lair to 9:30/10:00, Life was able to keep a competitive economy while executing his usual +1/+1 Zergling-Centric mid-game. When Lair finished, he moved into Baneling Speed, 2/2, and Spire to complete a balanced mid-game. It seems inevitable that Widow Mines get some good connections with Zerg armies, but Life's army-splitting was on the ball. Once Overseers were on the field it was easier for Life to snipe those pesky mines. He used multi-pronged aggression to secure small leads, shut down drops with relative ease, and control the middle of the map. I wish I could multitask like that! In the later stages, Life added Ultralisks to tank/dps and Vipers to snag those Medivacs. So sick!
7:00 Lair / Mutalisk
After a few aggressive Baneling timings, Life switched it up and went for a 7:00 Lair, allowing him to start some unexpected Mutalisk harass as early as 11minutes.
I hope you all enjoyed the series as much as I did! i hate to be a kill bill here, but his "ling centric style" is just a standard muta ling baneling style that was beyond standard in WoL... its nothing new. its as old as the game itself Nobody plays the early game like Life does, calling it "beyond standard" is incredibly wrong. sorry if i dont beleive you, but i cant see how what life is doing any different from the past other than being a bit more aggressive early on. i mean at the end of the day its still muta ling bane... Yeah it might be hard for you to understand but you should see korean interviews back when they used to ask other zergs why they didn't do what life did. They all said the same thing "I don't know how it works for life his style is so hard to do and I just lost with it so I stopped doing it". No zerg in the world can emulate life right now in how he does his ling control. His style really is different then other zergs and to how he uses it. Theres actually been atleast one player who have used Life's style in WoL, in the early 2012. Altho his style was inferior because of his inferior skill to life, the style of ROOTDestiny was an exact dublicate of what Life did at MLG. Destiny relied heavily on fast massed infestors to win and used his mineral dump for zerglings. Destiny also did not exploit zerglings for counter-attacks, map control, and multi-pronged aggression like Life because his micro and multitasking were not up to the task. Their styles were completely different. DRG's style was closer but DRG relied more on overwhelming mechanics and safe builds to snuff out Terran mid-game aggression.
I would agree with this - Life's Zergling counter-attacks are pretty unique, I think maybe Nerchio is closest to using Lings as effectively.
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Life showed some great ling control, but people saying this style is only possible with X ling control are being really dense. I've been playing a 3 hatch style in ZvT for a while, and i'm pretty god dam terrible. Nothing new really, life just seems to have this build very refined. The aggression life does is just something you have to do with this style, or else you'll just die to drops. Terrans in the current meta game are used to doing drops while taking a third, but if you're getting hit with aggression you can't really do either... It makes a lot of terrans look silly...
And now that the build is refined and known here on TL, i suspect this will be the new meta game in a short time.
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Imo, part of why Life had such an easy time against Flash was because of his reliance on Widow Mines rather than the new and improved tank. You can get siege mode 60 seconds earlier, as well as save 100 gas which can possibly go towards an early Raven.
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On March 22 2013 11:58 HanSomPa wrote:
Imo, part of why Life had such an easy time against Flash was because of his reliance on Widow Mines rather than the new and improved tank. You can get siege mode 60 seconds earlier, as well as save 100 gas which can possibly go towards an early Raven.
Well I wouldn't say he had an easy time against Flash! Flash is pretty beastly, and his widow-mine control was solid. I'm not sure he can afford tanks into his double engi / MMMM style.
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On March 23 2013 05:24 TangSC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2013 11:58 HanSomPa wrote:
Imo, part of why Life had such an easy time against Flash was because of his reliance on Widow Mines rather than the new and improved tank. You can get siege mode 60 seconds earlier, as well as save 100 gas which can possibly go towards an early Raven. Well I wouldn't say he had an easy time against Flash! Flash is pretty beastly, and his widow-mine control was solid. I'm not sure he can afford tanks into his double engi / MMMM style.
Well I dont mean he had it easy haha, I meant that he controlled the flow of the game and looked very strong in game five, four, and the one on alkion flats.
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On March 23 2013 05:59 HanSomPa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 05:24 TangSC wrote:On March 22 2013 11:58 HanSomPa wrote:
Imo, part of why Life had such an easy time against Flash was because of his reliance on Widow Mines rather than the new and improved tank. You can get siege mode 60 seconds earlier, as well as save 100 gas which can possibly go towards an early Raven. Well I wouldn't say he had an easy time against Flash! Flash is pretty beastly, and his widow-mine control was solid. I'm not sure he can afford tanks into his double engi / MMMM style. Well I dont mean he had it easy haha, I meant that he controlled the flow of the game and looked very strong in game five, four, and the one on alkion flats.
Yeah true he did do that. I think the MMMM composition is stronger than marine/tank though.
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On March 22 2013 11:51 Audio wrote:
Life showed some great ling control, but people saying this style is only possible with X ling control are being really dense. I've been playing a 3 hatch style in ZvT for a while, and i'm pretty god dam terrible. Nothing new really, life just seems to have this build very refined. The aggression life does is just something you have to do with this style, or else you'll just die to drops. Terrans in the current meta game are used to doing drops while taking a third, but if you're getting hit with aggression you can't really do either... It makes a lot of terrans look silly...
And now that the build is refined and known here on TL, i suspect this will be the new meta game in a short time.
That's because you're diamond playing vs diamond players. This style of play is MUCH harder to use against good terrans that have good map control and the game sense not to easily die to ling run bys.
Life is so amazing because he makes this work against amazing players like Flash, and completely tears them apart with it.
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On March 22 2013 11:58 HanSomPa wrote:
Imo, part of why Life had such an easy time against Flash was because of his reliance on Widow Mines rather than the new and improved tank. You can get siege mode 60 seconds earlier, as well as save 100 gas which can possibly go towards an early Raven.
The thing about Life's style is that Zergling usage isn't a very costly investment, and his aggression buys him a lot of time to macro up and give him options. That initial agression set Flash on the defensive the whole game, with little to no risk on life's build. If Flash had gotten a tank, that gives life all the more time to get upgrades and expands, while Flash is sitting there waiting for an attack. I do agree on a more mech style of play though, I feel like hellions puts so much more pressure on the Zerg to have good control, something hard to do at the lower levels.
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life's my hero. but yeah i been attempting to use his style of play lately. won me like 8 matchs in a row and put me in platinum league
top 8
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What are the gas timings for the delayed lair?
Bio + Mine is giving me headaches!
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United States4883 Posts
I'm a masters level player playing around with all races, and I started wanting to play around with zerg in HotS. I've been trying out Life's style of super aggressive ling use, and I agree that it's dizzingly hard to keep up with everything. My APM has skyrocketed through the roof while attempting this, but I still feel like I neglect a lot of basic things like creep spread and larvae injects because I'm spending so much time moving all over the map doing counterattacks, defending drops, and trying to avoid widow mines.
Life truly is incredible. Still, I think this style is worth practicing some, even though it's stupidly difficult; you'll learn a lot more about counterattacking, setting up flanks, and how to set up contains as zerg.
Also, OP, thanks for the short guide!
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this build die to hellbat thor, i don't think it's so good
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United States4883 Posts
On April 01 2013 00:02 Garmer wrote:
this build die to hellbat thor, i don't think it's so good
Lol, Of course, scouting is included in this build hahaha. If there are a LOT of hellions out on the field, you should probably be looking at making a switch to roaches anyway. This not only combats the possibility of your opponent going mech, but also gives you the flexibility to add on hydras and trade fairly evenly with bio/hellbat. If your opponent is making a TON of hellions, you're ahead on production and upgrades, assuming you're not losing 6 million zerglings to the hellions.
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you don't need ton of hellion, just few hellbat, and all lings are died
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United States4883 Posts
On April 01 2013 00:39 Garmer wrote:
you don't need ton of hellion, just few hellbat, and all lings are died
No one goes thor/hellion with "just a few hellbats" lol. With thor/hellion, more than half of your composition is naturally hellions. And the core of mech is generally heavy harassment with hellions and/or banshees, so don't even give me "well, maybe he hides some hellions" BS lol.
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thor hellbats was just an example, if you go bio just add few hellbats(not hellion, hellbats are like ten time better aginst lings), they get the job done
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Don't know if you guys have seen it but Day[9] has made a great video series about it. http://day9.tv/d/Day9/day9-daily-613-life-vs-jjakji-zvt-low-tech-style/
I'm Gold and regularly play with a Diamond Terran buddy. I was struggling a lot against him and managed to get 2 close losts and finally a win with this style. The first two games were a bit hard because you have a lot to do : creep spread, inject, and managing your lings. BTW it's really useful to start having 2-3 control groups only for lings, as it's way easier to set up flank attack or runbys. I tried to have 15+ lings hidden on the map, and when the terran pushes, even if he's at my door, I send theses lings in his 3rd to make him think twice. Usually you can handle it with the reinforcements and a few banelings, and his 3rd will be gone/pretty damaged.
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EPT
