EPT[L][D]HotS Terran Mech Resources/Q&A - Page 9
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llIH
Norway2143 Posts
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
Mines are good for drop defense but in a straight fight you want vikings to spot and to snipe medevacs as much as possible In a ladder situation Bio usually transitions into air, meaning you WANT some amount of air to prepare for the later transition. Producing heavy amounts of mines to counter drops cuts heavily into bfh+hellbat production. The thing with the flash game is that flash dumped all his starport production into lots of medevacs that didnt really pay off, when he couldve just made vikings instead to counter the suicide drops of bogus | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On May 05 2013 09:07 Qikz wrote: I think what Flash did was fine, and you can push across the map slowly with turrets it's certainly not impossible. It's slow, expensive and impractical. When you push, you want to hit as soon as possible (especially as your opponent may already be on his way to his air transition), not 2-3 minuts after when your Great Wall of China is complete across several screens. What is generally done is that you push from point A to point B then start making Turrets there. What happened in that game wasn't Flash losing to a lack of air control, sure it would have helped but his drops on top of the bio was doing a hell of a lot of good. Mech is fine on whirlwhind and while ravens and vikings would have helped, Flash's drops on drops were doing really well. I think the point that lost him the game was when he lost about 6 tanks and 8 hellbats in the drop at innovations natural that didn't really do anything. After losing those tanks his turrets got taken down so he lost his air protection and he slowly got picked apart as he couldn't ever really regain a strong defensive stance. Mech is not "fine" on Whirlwind. You can't make things worse for mech than this map. Well, I suppose you actually can, but everything is against mech on this map. Mech likes small-medium distances, corridors, chokes and easy thirds—Whirlwind features exactly the contrary. Whichever third you take, you're stretched thin and exposed to flanks. Medivacs can bounce from main to third, etc. This does not mean winning with mech is impossible but the map is objectively anti-mech. Flash's 5 Medivac drop was bad indeed but from my notes there were "only" 3 Tanks in it. The turning point of the game was when Flash lost his defences at his fourth; he had 4 Tanks parked near the PF, and Bogus was able to kill them precisely because Flash had no anti-air nearby, so Bogus dropped his Marauders on top of them. He narrowly failed to kill the PF, but the "demolition cycle" capitalizing on the third ↔ fourth harass was unleashed. Flash didn't lose straight up, but he lost too much defending and couldn't gather enough Tanks to build a threatening army. You say Flash could "never really regain a strong defensive stance," but why? Because lack of anti-air = Tanks inefficiently destroyed by Marauders/Medivacs = not enough Tanks to hold ground [at this point, after Bogus failed to kill the PF on the fourth, I noted he had only 6 Tanks left, probably around ~20'; at 21'30 he had 10 Tanks] = Flash is in difficulty. He had only 12 Tanks + no anti-air when he pushed towards Bogus' third, while you want 15-20+ of them + anti-air and preferably one Raven to have a strong grasp. The Medivac approach is possible against biomech because then:
Is this Medivac approach more efficient than spending 100% of your gas on Tanks (by midgame) once you have 4-6 Vikings, one Raven and one Banshee, I don't know. But at least this is strategically more sound than against pure bio → air. One example of this is today's game of Flash vs Reality. But against pure bio, no Viking will inevitably lead to troubles—unless, again, your heavy investment in Medivacs pays off with lots of toasted SCVs. Not having any way to control the Medivac count of your opponent will also give game-ending opportunities to your opponent, such as landing 5-6 Medivacs full of bio in your production, which is generally instant checkmate and cannot be stopped by Turret rings alone because of Afterburners. On May 05 2013 09:17 Porishan wrote: How about making a few thors or mines, way in TvZ Mech against muta ? Thors or mines can be good against dropping bio on tanks line? You have no resources (gas/supply/lab fact production time) for enough Thors to stop Medivacs drops on your army, and parking Mines near your Tanks will form a very explosive mixture that may blow part of the Marauder drops on top of your army, but will also likely wipe out your Tanks as well due to the splash fest. Besides, devoting 100% of your reactor fact production time to build a healthy Hellbat wall is better, so Mines are rarely produced outside of the few anti-drops early game ones that are subsequently used as anti-doomdrops defensive tools by midgame. | ||
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llIH
Norway2143 Posts
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Taefox
1533 Posts
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larse
1611 Posts
I have to say raven is quite a good replacement of vikings. You normally need more than 10 vikings but you only need like 5-6 of ravens. You use seeker missile to kill all the immortal shields and you can use auto-turrets to tank in front of your tanks. The auto-turrets kill immortal shield fast. Any thought on this? | ||
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larse
1611 Posts
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkcGrtT2s3NryMEKCdYixgOZ5iSHufpdk | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On May 08 2013 04:27 larse wrote: Today I try use raven to replace viking in mech TvP. So the unit composition is tank, hellbat, and raven. Just three. I have to say raven is quite a good replacement of vikings. You normally need more than 10 vikings but you only need like 5-6 of ravens. You use seeker missile to kill all the immortal shields and you can use auto-turrets to tank in front of your tanks. The auto-turrets kill immortal shield fast. Any thought on this? I think lategame atleast against collosus/air armies that you need a mix of both ravens and vikings. Without both you just die to tempests and void rays. The big thing about Ravens against voidrays is people clump their voids all the time and mostly get badly damaged by the HSM's leaving your vikings the ability to clean up. Against tempests because they don't clump as much you'll need many PDDs, but also vikings to be able to kill the tempest so a mix is good. I generally get ravens first though. | ||
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llIH
Norway2143 Posts
On May 09 2013 02:39 larse wrote: I made a Youtube Playlist of Mech TvP in HotS (67 Videos, 22 hours long). Enjoy! http://www.youtube.com/playlist?feature=edit_ok&list=PLkcGrtT2s3NryMEKCdYixgOZ5iSHufpdk Much appreciated | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On May 07 2013 05:06 Porishan wrote: Thanks TheDwf, oh btw does Flash only play mech TvT ? o_O Frequently, but not exclusively. On May 09 2013 18:19 Qikz wrote: Has anyone managed to decipher Flash's mech build in TvT? I've seen loads of games of it now but I can never seem to work out when he times everything. Which one? He used several in the past weeks. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On May 09 2013 19:13 TheDwf wrote: Frequently, but not exclusively. Which one? He used several in the past weeks. The one where he opens reactor hellion/viking. I have a build quite similar to that that I use, but his way seems a bit more efficient, I just can't seem to work out the timings from the proleague vods. | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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Lyyna
France776 Posts
On May 10 2013 03:39 kollin wrote: Goodbye, sweet prince We will remember what you did, don't worry ! | ||
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Taefox
1533 Posts
 OP has been up to date, gonna add some mech games vods in PL | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On May 09 2013 20:51 Qikz wrote: The one where he opens reactor hellion/viking. I have a build quite similar to that that I use, but his way seems a bit more efficient, I just can't seem to work out the timings from the proleague vods. There are several possibilities, out of 1. gasless expand, 2. gas 15 expand with only 3 Marines before Reactor (no extra Marines after this) and 3. gas 15 expand with 2 Marines before Reactor, going up to 4 or 6 Marines afterwards. Which one did you see? | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On May 11 2013 00:35 TheDwf wrote: There are several possibilities, out of 1. gasless expand, 2. gas 15 expand with only 3 Marines before Reactor (no extra Marines after this) and 3. gas 15 expand with 2 Marines before Reactor, going up to 4 or 6 Marines afterwards. Which one did you see? .I think I must have seen all of them since I watch all of Flash's games I've kind of modified my own opening now at least to make me a slight bit more safe. Where I am on ladder everyone seems to open up with really quick tank pushes so to make myself safe I open up with a single tank and then switch into reactor hellion/raven/viking depending on what I';ve scouted. Seems to be giving me a lot more success due to the amount of early agression that seems to be happening around low masters. I think I'll stick with that for a while. It feels better now I've jumped back into ranked after gaining more confidence in unranked again. I was having some really terrible loses but I'm getting quite a lot of good wins again and playing unranked for a bit allowed me to focus more on my builds than anything else. Thanks for the help. ^^ | ||
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PsyXSC2
Philippines4 Posts
I personally would prefer Strelok's opening with Gas First into 4 to 6 Hellions and basically rape Probes. But the main point of this post is that, with the very fast Oracle pressure/harass, is there any way for us to hold it off while making Protoss stay defensively? Other question is, should I get both upgrades or just plainly Weapon Upgrades? Last question, how and when to attack? :D | ||
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