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Protoss versus Zerg: The Guide - Page 22

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
671 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 20 21 22 23 24 34 Next All
There are no plans for a guide to other match-ups at this time. This guide was an entirely organic effort from TL community members of similar interests.
DropTester
Profile Joined April 2010
Australia608 Posts
November 27 2012 05:12 GMT
#421
this is an amazing compilation and guide, the amount of protoss help in these forums are absolutely amazing.
Oboeman
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada3980 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-27 05:17:40
November 27 2012 05:17 GMT
#422
On November 27 2012 13:58 NovemberstOrm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2012 12:50 Oboeman wrote:
Three Base Baneling Bust
Baneling busts can also come off of three bases, so don’t think that just because you see a third base you’re safe from any all-ins. The standard 3 base Baneling bust is outlined here in a Guide by TangSC and hits as early as 6:50. The key is to be deadly suspicious if you scout Ling speed before and always make a Sentry as your first or second unit once your Core finishes if you want to be perfectly safe. Otherwise, follow the advice outlined in the previous section.


how do you scout ling speed?
As long as zerg makes a queen he will keep your probe from re-entering the main. He can delay speed until he's at 150-180 gas, allowing him to clear zealots off the towers with 6 slowlings before speed finishes (or force a stalker to concede watchtower control even if they can't kill the stalker), and speed will finish just before the attack when it is too late for you to be "deadly suspicious".


You scout ling speed by being active on the map with a zealots+stalker, you can get tricky with it sometimes(hiding a probe and then scouting the main), delaying a build usually isn't worth it, if you suspect a baneling bust then you have to play ultra defensive, it takes some time for you to be able to read situations in the game such as this one.


"if you suspect a baneling bust then you have to play ultra defensive" doesn't answer any questions unless you describe what you are looking for that will arouse suspicion, and how much you react to it.

If zerg takes his gas while his queen is in production and your probe is scouting the 3rd, you will NOT see the gas with a probe. everything will look normal, and you have no reason to suspect anything.

Is seeing 6-8 slow lings instead of 4 reason to suspect something? because that's all he needs to show you until its too late. How many cannons does that entail?
RaiKageRyu
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada4773 Posts
November 27 2012 05:18 GMT
#423
*standing ovation*
Someone call down the Thunder?
shadowy
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Bulgaria305 Posts
November 27 2012 05:27 GMT
#424
There are tears of pure joy in my eyes.

Thank you, TL!
[Fear the leather Gracket!] // ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ // Liquid'Hero hwaiting!
nojok
Profile Joined May 2011
France15846 Posts
November 27 2012 05:27 GMT
#425
Nice but hurry up, only 4 months left for the 8 next mu!
"Back then teams that won were credited, now it's called throw. I think it's sad." - Kuroky - Flap Flap Wings!
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
November 27 2012 05:32 GMT
#426
Unless you're Terran, then go away.

I is sad

But in all seriousness, I'm definitely keeping this guide handy whenever I get bored and make the switch back to random. I've never really nailed down FFE, so this will definitely be useful.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4783 Posts
November 27 2012 05:38 GMT
#427
Mind = Blown. Will definitely help speed up my return to masters after having had almost a year off
Mura19
Profile Joined October 2012
43 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-27 05:44:52
November 27 2012 05:43 GMT
#428
The picture represent perfectly the match up PvsZ, Toss crying and Zerg smiling
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
November 27 2012 05:49 GMT
#429
On November 27 2012 14:17 Oboeman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2012 13:58 NovemberstOrm wrote:
On November 27 2012 12:50 Oboeman wrote:
Three Base Baneling Bust
Baneling busts can also come off of three bases, so don’t think that just because you see a third base you’re safe from any all-ins. The standard 3 base Baneling bust is outlined here in a Guide by TangSC and hits as early as 6:50. The key is to be deadly suspicious if you scout Ling speed before and always make a Sentry as your first or second unit once your Core finishes if you want to be perfectly safe. Otherwise, follow the advice outlined in the previous section.


how do you scout ling speed?
As long as zerg makes a queen he will keep your probe from re-entering the main. He can delay speed until he's at 150-180 gas, allowing him to clear zealots off the towers with 6 slowlings before speed finishes (or force a stalker to concede watchtower control even if they can't kill the stalker), and speed will finish just before the attack when it is too late for you to be "deadly suspicious".


You scout ling speed by being active on the map with a zealots+stalker, you can get tricky with it sometimes(hiding a probe and then scouting the main), delaying a build usually isn't worth it, if you suspect a baneling bust then you have to play ultra defensive, it takes some time for you to be able to read situations in the game such as this one.


"if you suspect a baneling bust then you have to play ultra defensive" doesn't answer any questions unless you describe what you are looking for that will arouse suspicion, and how much you react to it.

If zerg takes his gas while his queen is in production and your probe is scouting the 3rd, you will NOT see the gas with a probe. everything will look normal, and you have no reason to suspect anything.

Is seeing 6-8 slow lings instead of 4 reason to suspect something? because that's all he needs to show you until its too late. How many cannons does that entail?

You just have to appreciate that if you can't get a good scout off, cutting cannons is a risk. It's a risk which most of the time pays off (unless you play vs Zenio) but going up to three cannons if you are blind is what I would consider safe. Will it put you behind if they play standard? Absolutely. That's the toss up you have.
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
SSeoni
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
139 Posts
November 27 2012 05:58 GMT
#430
I'm pretty sure ZvP right now is going to be pretty hard after this :p How I wish if there's a Zerg guide like this. Very nice guide hands down!
씨니
thepuppyassassin
Profile Joined April 2011
900 Posts
November 27 2012 06:02 GMT
#431
Guide demonstrating the huge body of knowledge required for competitive play.. There is a reason why progamers are called "professionals"
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25562 Posts
November 27 2012 06:29 GMT
#432
On November 27 2012 14:49 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2012 14:17 Oboeman wrote:
On November 27 2012 13:58 NovemberstOrm wrote:
On November 27 2012 12:50 Oboeman wrote:
Three Base Baneling Bust
Baneling busts can also come off of three bases, so don’t think that just because you see a third base you’re safe from any all-ins. The standard 3 base Baneling bust is outlined here in a Guide by TangSC and hits as early as 6:50. The key is to be deadly suspicious if you scout Ling speed before and always make a Sentry as your first or second unit once your Core finishes if you want to be perfectly safe. Otherwise, follow the advice outlined in the previous section.


how do you scout ling speed?
As long as zerg makes a queen he will keep your probe from re-entering the main. He can delay speed until he's at 150-180 gas, allowing him to clear zealots off the towers with 6 slowlings before speed finishes (or force a stalker to concede watchtower control even if they can't kill the stalker), and speed will finish just before the attack when it is too late for you to be "deadly suspicious".


You scout ling speed by being active on the map with a zealots+stalker, you can get tricky with it sometimes(hiding a probe and then scouting the main), delaying a build usually isn't worth it, if you suspect a baneling bust then you have to play ultra defensive, it takes some time for you to be able to read situations in the game such as this one.


"if you suspect a baneling bust then you have to play ultra defensive" doesn't answer any questions unless you describe what you are looking for that will arouse suspicion, and how much you react to it.

If zerg takes his gas while his queen is in production and your probe is scouting the 3rd, you will NOT see the gas with a probe. everything will look normal, and you have no reason to suspect anything.

Is seeing 6-8 slow lings instead of 4 reason to suspect something? because that's all he needs to show you until its too late. How many cannons does that entail?

You just have to appreciate that if you can't get a good scout off, cutting cannons is a risk. It's a risk which most of the time pays off (unless you play vs Zenio) but going up to three cannons if you are blind is what I would consider safe. Will it put you behind if they play standard? Absolutely. That's the toss up you have.


I concur with Plexa's analysis of anti-baneling precautions in PvZ, and his pun as well.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
[N3O]r3d33m3r
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany674 Posts
November 27 2012 06:34 GMT
#433
this guide is FANTASTIC!
Could a pro player check it for general misconecptions? Like skim through it and suggest improvements :O
EuroElf
Profile Joined January 2010
Croatia19 Posts
November 27 2012 06:36 GMT
#434
best guide EVER!!!

Sanco
Profile Joined January 2012
Germany1 Post
November 27 2012 06:37 GMT
#435
Need this for Terran vs. Zerg but, GREAT WORK!!!
Flonomenalz
Profile Joined May 2011
Nigeria3519 Posts
November 27 2012 06:43 GMT
#436
Holy crap, what a guide.

Zerg players, we must unite against this mighty force.
I love crazymoving
Entirety
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
1423 Posts
November 27 2012 06:56 GMT
#437
My first reaction: A guide on PvZ? A guide on the entire matchup? I scoff at thee.

My second reaction: Holy crap this guide...

Literally the most in-depth guide I have seen in my life. This is amazing, I will have to put this to use and improve my Protoss prowess!
IMMvp (정종현) | Fan Club: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=211431
samurai80
Profile Joined November 2011
Japan4225 Posts
November 27 2012 07:02 GMT
#438
Sorry for the caps but this is so AWESOME !!! Thanks for the great work, gonna read this asap.
blooblooblahblah
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia4163 Posts
November 27 2012 07:03 GMT
#439
Amazing amount of effort put into this. This is a great reference for Protoss players at any lvl, and it is pretty much the most in-depth sc2 guide that has ever been written.

One criticism i would have is the lack of depth in the gate nexus section. It seems like the creators of this guide don't use gate nexus very often, so that part of the guide seems to lack a bit of experience and mostly referred to the FFE part when it came to the midgame and defending all ins. Hopefully someone with a bit more gate nexus experience can add to that section.
Ganzi beat me without stim. Ostojiy beat me with a nydus. Siphonn beat me with probes. Revival beat my sentry-immortal all-in.
havox_
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany442 Posts
November 27 2012 07:11 GMT
#440
wow, this is huge =)
not playing P and still love it - and it feels like the other races will have to unite in response :D
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