EPTIs, like most PvP builds, blind advantage vs some builds(blink, map dependant, any type of slow robo FE),blind almost death sentence vs others (prism 4g; phoenix 4g); and just veryrough vs some builds (phoenix+robo timing; 4gate+1collosi push; archon+charge push).
[G] Grubby's PvP 2gate robo expand - Page 2
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Belha
Italy2850 Posts
Is, like most PvP builds, blind advantage vs some builds(blink, map dependant, any type of slow robo FE),blind almost death sentence vs others (prism 4g; phoenix 4g); and just veryrough vs some builds (phoenix+robo timing; 4gate+1collosi push; archon+charge push). | ||
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Becuula
Germany65 Posts
I've tried this build from my own notes and liked it. Thank you for your work, I'll go further with this build. | ||
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DarkblueRH
United States144 Posts
On October 20 2012 08:26 Zealot Lord wrote: I got a question (that I think) is relevant since the opening is somewhat similar - with LiquidHero's stargate opener, he also opens the game with 2 zealots with sentries, maybe I'm just not good enough, but I feel like its a pretty much an auto loss build against a proxied robo 4gate prism play. This is from my own experience, as you have no stalkers, you can't just go around scouting/gaining map control with just zealot sentries, which means you'll always be blind to it. Or am I missing something here? Though the significant difference in this build which is better compared to the stargate opener is that the 2nd gas is much later, so opponents can't be certain that you are going for the tech/expand route. But you know, on ladder, there's always those players that do a predetermined blind all-in no matter what he sees -_- What I think is missing from this post that alleviates your issues is a probe scout and proxy pylon in your opponents side of the map. If you have a probe run up your opponents ramp at 5:00 you can see the aggression coming because he won't have a 2nd stalker building and will have 4 gates. This = warp prism usually. No one 4 gates without that second stalker unless it's warp prism. Edit: you can also have this pylon in a common proxy robo location for an added scout. The key to this proxy pylon is that it's outside your base and off of common attack paths. If your opponent kills it he can't also be attacking you at the same time. If he does attack you, use this pylon to throw zealots to his mineral line while FF on your ramp for the free win. This also works amazingly vs blink obs | ||
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Bahamuth
134 Posts
Teolita, don't you do this build on Ohana? I'd think the ramp and the fact that it's not amazing for Blink would make it pretty strong there. | ||
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renoB
United States170 Posts
I like the idea of tricking the opponent into thinking you're getting a stalker, which forces their probe out (most of the time) and allows you to use extra gas for an earlier sentry and robo. However, I do think that scouting on 13 is very helpful (although not necessary) because it can give you a clue to whether or not they are going to 4gate, which can clue you to get an earlier immortal or distribute chrono to other buildings. I also like to scout popular proxy robo locations on my way back home with the probe if I'm suspicious. Against phoenix it does great because either your expansion is up earlier and so you can remake the probes you lose to the phoenix faster, or they go all-in and you have the economy to trump their attack. | ||
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Asmodeusx
286 Posts
On October 20 2012 03:50 kmillz wrote: How well does this hold standard pheonix play (and how do you execute when facing it)? Add gateways, make sentry/stalker/zealot and kill enemy when he expands. Works 9 out of 10 times. | ||
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Zealot Lord
Hong Kong748 Posts
On October 23 2012 03:51 DarkblueRH wrote: What I think is missing from this post that alleviates your issues is a probe scout and proxy pylon in your opponents side of the map. If you have a probe run up your opponents ramp at 5:00 you can see the aggression coming because he won't have a 2nd stalker building and will have 4 gates. This = warp prism usually. No one 4 gates without that second stalker unless it's warp prism. Edit: you can also have this pylon in a common proxy robo location for an added scout. The key to this proxy pylon is that it's outside your base and off of common attack paths. If your opponent kills it he can't also be attacking you at the same time. If he does attack you, use this pylon to throw zealots to his mineral line while FF on your ramp for the free win. This also works amazingly vs blink obs Ah, this sounds good - thanks!!  | ||
Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
On October 23 2012 04:59 Bahamuth wrote: What's the opinion on this build versus opening 3 Stalker rush into Sentry Sentry? I'm pretty sure I've seen other pro's do that too. Teolita, don't you do this build on Ohana? I'd think the ramp and the fact that it's not amazing for Blink would make it pretty strong there. I like to open phoenix on maps where blink/obs isn't an obvious choice. On Ohana yeah it's 50/50. It's hard to blink in and out, but doable. Regarding 3stalker intro 4 sentries, yeah that's a popular variation. It relies on being really good at reading your opponent just by poking around or using early scouting information, as going nexus before robo forces you to go immortal before obs if you want to hold any potential pure blink timing. @Asmodeusx: since when exactly does immortal expand beat phoenix 9 out of 10 times exactly? Phoenix is actually really strong vs this, as your stalker count will be diminished and you are more or less always forced into building one immortal which is a completely useless investment. Wether it's phoenix/robo macro or phoenix 4gate, this build is behind a stargate opener. | ||
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