I am impressed! Your first paragraph went by without using a single period =). If zerg just get the right amount of speedlings to stop your build, and get on 3 bases, you would be quite behind since it will be a 3 base zerg vs. a 2 base without warp gate protoss =/.

kaokentake

383 Posts

August 20 2012 23:49 GMT

#22

On August 21 2012 07:54 Belial88 wrote:
Hey weren't you permabanned?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=176533#1

A thread by 'taketobreak' who posts reps, with the same sc2 account as the OP:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=151154

sc2ranks profile
http://sc2ranks.com/us/1356524/taketobreak

Not that I spent forever looking into this, I just clicked on the replay and saw the account 'taketobreak', which I distinctly remembered as a huge troll. Wasn't hard to google 'teamliquid taketobreak' to see some gems.

By the way 1000 points is arguably low masters (midmasters at best). You aren't going to be facing GM's anytime soon. The only reason you are top 4 in your division is because it's a low level division, you'd be lucky to be top 25 in most divisions. (i have 300 points more than you and I'm rank ~13)

On a more serious note, I'd love to play some games out against this. Belial.869. I seriously doubt that this all-in is a strong build though, a proper reaction to zerg wouldn't be a spine or roaches, it would be to get speedlings, then take a third when you take your natural, and be way ahead. It should be pretty obvious what you are doing when you are getting 4 gas so quickly off a gateway expand build that only builds zealots, zerg is going to assume definitely DTs or SG tech. Most zergs these days seem to go infestor tech vs stargate too, not everyone goes hydras anymore (ie mc vs nerchio as a recent example, he doesnt ever get hydras, and responds to stargate with infestors every time). Plus, you make it sound like someone responding to your all-in with hydras is a bad thing - zerg just makes a couple hydras, defends your all-in follow-up to your all-in, and then forever denies your third, and busts your natural most likely too consideringhow much you dedicated to air.

On a side note, i don't think any sort of 1 base all-in (or even 2 base) would be very strong against a 2 gate opening like this. Zerg all-ins are pretty weak and get owned if the opponent is going for an all-in, generally. Not to say this build is good, but anyone saying a 7RR would beat this I don't think is correct.

Seems like a build just to punish bad zergs though. I think the reason you never see 2 gate other than maybe proxy 9/10 gates in pro play is because pro zergs will react just fine and know to drone hard against it.

i wouldnt mind testing this out against zerg who reacts properly to the 2gate. so sure we can play later

yeah i got permabanned hopefully the mods have mercy on me. i remember testing some TvZ builds out against you when i was doing terran theorycrafting but toss is my main race

also my theory is that points cant be compared between divisions and all that matters is if your top2 masters or not. If your top2 masters your MMR is approaching gm level even if you have a lack of points. This is just my theory and i may be wrong but each masters division represents the top 2% of players so then I think top2 of a masters division represents the top2% of the top2% of MMR. So if your top2 masters and win 10games in a row then your MMR probably shoots up beyond the top1% of the top2% meaning you get faced against GM's. Ive noticed this because i watched some pro streams with a new fresh account and when they hit masters they are rank2 masters with a high mmr but low points, but then after winning 4games in a row their mmr pushes into gm level and they get matched against GM's.

Of course this is just my theory, doesnt really matter, we can test out the build later if you wish.

Belial88

United States5217 Posts

August 21 2012 00:34 GMT

#23

You have it backwards... Rank doesn't mean anything, it's literally 100 random people thrown together for comparison. All rank tells you is how your progress is going compared to 100 arbitrarily picked people (or in the case of leagues created after new season, 100 people who were diamond but just got promoted, so 100% of them are all low, low masters). You can't exptrapolate anything more from your division/rank than, say, "oh hey, I'm going better than checksixpainuser!". Given how the skill population curve is (the most average skill league by population is gold, etc), it's actually more like that for every 100 or so low masters there are, there is 1 high masters, so statistically speaking, it's much more likely that in your division, there just isn't any high masters at all, and being top 8 still has no indication of your skill. Of all the leagues I've looked at, including yours, the top 8 is mostly mid-masters, commonly has low masters, and might have 1-2 high masters, usually just 1, or even none at all if it's a newer league.

Right now, i think most people would consider up to 1k points low masters. I'm at 1300 points, and I'm spot on in the middle between 2k MMR and 2.8KMMR. I imagine high masters is 1600+. The difference in 300 MMR points is larger than the size of both silver and plat leagues, so technically, the skill range between us is like silver and gold in terms of MMR range.

GM is invite, not based on your points, so it's entirely possible you could face GMs, but that doesn't mean you are facing GM-MMR opponents (I faced a GM recently, his MMR was lower than mine!). But the system places you against +/- ~400 MMR opponents (a little less than that, really), so in order to start facing GM-level MMR opponents, you would need to be at about 1400 points masters..

In other words, your theory is wrong, you can check out : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334561
on how MMR exactly works. It's not very complicated, but no one would really know this stuff without skeldark's amazing work on the subject.

Basically, blizzard's hidden MMR system is created to make you think you are doing way better than you really are, so you don't feel like shit (they really should create a coppper league though, bronze is fucking huge). It's sad to realize that top 8 really means you are still low masters, or despite playing a GM I'm nowhere near high masters or GM level, and I'm not even halfway through masters despite having 1300 points and facing a GM and being top 8 and above checksixpainuser and a few other notable people.

If you are top 2 masters, and win 10 games in a row, you can't really extrapolate anything unless you know the MMR of your opponents and the player-quality data and some other complicated stuff, but all it means is you won 10 games in a row. To really see how you did, look at how many points you won in those games, and subtract 12 or whatever the 'x-factor' number is, and based on if you gained a lot of points or a little you can see if you really are ranking up or not quickly, but that's really it. Rank really means nothing at all though, I've seen rank 10high masters (really rare though), and I've seen rank 1 low masters, it's not uncommon at all. It's so, so, player dependent. If you are top 2 masters, and win 10 games in a row, you are just a little higher than where you were. It would totally depend on how many points you had and your MMR at rank 2, as rank 2 can definitely be low masters, and in most divisions, it is.

Looking at your division, "Archon Tau", everyone up to top 2 is actually low masters. The #2 guy Derekz, at 1246 points, *arguably* and *maybe* is mid-masters, but the doukjin guy at 1100 is low masters. GoSuPbunny at 1619 points, rank 1, is literally more than a league above Derekz, with about 400 points more, that literally means the difference in skill between them is like a diamond and a platinum. This is a common theme in most leagues - top 8 people *might* be mid-masters, but are usually low masters still, while #1 is usually mid-masters, but sometimes high masters.

I mean, it's theoretically possible that you have an entire division of high masters where everyone is high masters at 1600+ points. I think it'd probably be statistically impossible, but theoretically, possible. What's statistically likely, is that all 100 people in a division is low masters, like in a newly created division.

Yonnua

United Kingdom2331 Posts

August 23 2012 18:25 GMT

#24

On August 21 2012 07:38 Yonnua wrote:

Show nested quote +

I go for the 2 gateways and then a forge (with a third gateway for some maps e.g. condemned, antiga). Daybreak is different. If you place your buildings correctly you should be able to block in the pylons. Delaying the expansion is usually enough to drop the third building in time for a total wall. But I haven't played against it loads, and certainly not at the highest level.

Just played against a 7pool on ladder using the 12/15 build. Pylon on 9, Gate on 12. My probe scouted the early pool and I completed the wall with forge, gate and a cannon behind the wall was half way complete when the lings arrived. It was on Ohana which has one of the shorter rushes so it seems like it times out just fine.